On Sunday, December 21, 2014 6:46:38 AM UTC, Jason wrote:
As with split brain patients and other humans, if some part of the brain
isn't connected to the part of the brain that talks, we really can't
conclude those other parts doing other processing are unconscious. It's
like me
On Sunday, December 21, 2014 2:20:01 AM UTC, John Clark wrote:
On Sat, Dec 20, 2014 at 3:07 PM, zibble...@gmail.com javascript:
wrote:
Part of how you sum up your core insight: that consciousness has no
detectable objective reality
No, I'm saying that consciousness DOES have a
On Sunday, December 21, 2014, Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au
javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','bhkell...@optusnet.com.au'); wrote:
Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Sunday, December 21, 2014, Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au
wrote:
John Clark wrote:
Somebody said that
On Sat, Dec 20, 2014 at 04:34:30PM +1100, Kim Jones wrote:
On 20 Dec 2014, at 3:23 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
On 20 December 2014 at 16:56, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote:
Oops. Taupo
Damn, for a moment I thought that Raymond Smullyan had moved here and
On Saturday, December 20, 2014, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au
wrote:
On Sat, Dec 20, 2014 at 04:34:30PM +1100, Kim Jones wrote:
On 20 Dec 2014, at 3:23 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
On 20 December 2014 at 16:56, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au
wrote:
Oops. Taupo
On Sunday, December 21, 2014 6:57:34 AM UTC, Pierz wrote:
On Sunday, December 21, 2014 3:17:15 AM UTC+5:45, zibble...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Friday, December 19, 2014 11:48:34 AM UTC, Pierz wrote:So a close
friend of mine is a novelist whose latest book has a supernova in it. It's
not a
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 12:39 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
A part of its information processing system that is highly integrated
will indeed be conscious. However, IIT research has shown that for many
integrated systems,one can design a functionally equivalent feed-forward
system
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
It might be a common human trait to fear oblivion, but it is even more
irrational than belief in an afterlife.
The fact that you've obviously lived long enough to learn how to read and
write is proof positive that you too
On Sat, Dec 20, 2014 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List
everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote:
In depth article in Nature warning against the current unfounded
euphoric optimism regarding the scale of the future supply of shale gas
(oil).
The fact that just 5 years ago NOBODY
Hi John,
What about supplements? Do you take anything to try to extend your lifespan
meanwhile?
There are a lot of ideas, with several degrees of support from research.
One of the is the humble aspirin...
I'm sure people here are familiar with Kurzweil's live long enough to live
forever
On 12/20/2014 11:05 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote:
Most legal systems punish murder more than any other crime, and those that have the
death penalty reserve it for the worst offenders. Most criminals know that if they
threaten a person with death they are more likely to comply than with other
On Sunday, December 21, 2014 12:41:41 PM UTC, Russell Standish wrote:
On Sat, Dec 20, 2014 at 04:34:30PM +1100, Kim Jones wrote:
On 20 Dec 2014, at 3:23 pm, LizR liz...@gmail.com javascript:
wrote:
On 20 December 2014 at 16:56, Kim Jones kimj...@ozemail.com.au
On 21 Dec 2014, at 19:23, John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
It might be a common human trait to fear oblivion, but it is even
more irrational than belief in an afterlife.
The fact that you've obviously lived long enough to learn how to
On 21 Dec 2014, at 05:45, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Sunday, December 21, 2014, Bruce Kellett
bhkell...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
John Clark wrote:
Somebody said that they didn't want to sign up for Cryonics because
they were worried about ending up as a brain in a vat, and in any
On Sunday, December 21, 2014 5:53:39 PM UTC, John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 12:39 AM, meekerdb meek...@verizon.net
javascript: wrote:
A part of its information processing system that is highly integrated
will indeed be conscious. However, IIT research has shown that for many
On Sunday, December 21, 2014 6:40:21 PM UTC, John Clark wrote:
On Sat, Dec 20, 2014 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List
everyth...@googlegroups.com javascript: wrote:
In depth article in Nature warning against the current unfounded
euphoric optimism regarding the scale of the
On 15 Nov 2014, at 09:30, Samiya Illias wrote:
On 15-Nov-2014, at 12:31 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
Organised religion in its entirety is a veiled threat.
Temporally, yes, because it is abused by humans against humans.
However, temporal worries and troubles should not deter us
On 19 Dec 2014, at 22:09, LizR wrote:
On 20 December 2014 at 07:04, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com
wrote:
Yeah, the brain freeze headache to end all headaches.
My son was in a short movie called Brainfreeze, I think he was 11 at
the time. He's Bjorn.
On Sunday, December 21, 2014, Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au
wrote:
Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Sunday, December 21, 2014, Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au
wrote:
John Clark wrote:
Somebody said that they didn't want to sign up for Cryonics
because
On Thursday, December 18, 2014 5:46:05 PM UTC, John Clark wrote:
Although I am in good health I have just signed up with Alcor to have my
head cryogenically frozen at 320 degrees below zero (77 degrees Kelvin)
after my death. I am not convinced it will work but I am convinced that if
it
Head freezing is the best of a bad lot, so to speak. I am that loony, voice in
the wilderness, that believes scientists and philosophers should dedicate their
time to coming up with proposals for preventing death (medical science),
creating an afterlife (uploading?), and the answer to Humpty
Jason Resch wrote:
On Sunday, December 21, 2014, Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au
mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Sunday, December 21, 2014, Bruce Kellett
bhkell...@optusnet.com.au mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
What's wrong
John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au
mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
It might be a common human trait to fear oblivion, but it is even
more irrational than belief in an afterlife.
The fact that you've obviously lived long enough
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of zibblequib...@gmail.com
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2014 11:53 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Natural gas: The fracking fallacy
On Sunday, December 21, 2014 6:40:21 PM
And, the question not to ask Twain would have been, did you feel like this
when your young daughter died? See, its not just about the splendid ego of the
jolly, smug, atheist; but involves everybody. As good as the atheist is at
shuffling off to Buffalo, there' other individuals involved. Its
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 1:51 AM, Pierz pier...@gmail.com wrote:
Right. I've been looking into that and decided around 150ly would be about
right for the effects he wants.
WR-104 is 2 Wolf Rayet stars in a very tight orbit 8000 light years
away, normally that would be far too distant to cause
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 , Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
An instinct for self-preservation is unrelated to whether or not
you have a fear of death, or of oblivion
Unrelated?? Don't be ridiculous! Why the hell do you imagine Evolution
invented the fear of death in the first place?
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 2:45 PM, zibblequib...@gmail.com wrote:
Yesterday you said you had to conclude if the test detected consciousness
well it must also detect intelligence.
That's not what I said, you've got it backward. Something can be conscious
but not intelligent, but if it's
John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 , Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
An instinct for self-preservation is unrelated to whether or not
you have a fear of death, or of oblivion
Unrelated?? Don't be ridiculous! Why the hell do you imagine Evolution
invented the fear of death
On 22 December 2014 at 08:06, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for
billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the
slightest inconvenience from it.'
--- Mark Twain
I have a suspicion that
LizR wrote:
On 22 December 2014 at 08:06, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for
billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not
suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.'
spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
And, the question *not* to ask Twain would have been, did you feel like
this when your young daughter died? See, its not just about the
splendid ego of the jolly, smug, atheist; but involves everybody. As
good as the atheist is at shuffling off to Buffalo,
On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 1:41 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 18 Dec 2014, at 10:58, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 5:11 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 17 Dec 2014, at 13:03, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
Starting from the fact that The NHS was
-Original Message-
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Kellett
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2014 3:27 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: I signed up to be cryogenically frozen
John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Dec
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List
everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote:
The fact that just 5 years ago NOBODY predicted the huge increase in oil
and gas production that occurred doesn't exactly fill me with confidence
that those same experts who got it so wrong 5
On Monday, December 22, 2014, Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au
wrote:
John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 , Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
An instinct for self-preservation is unrelated to whether or not
you have a fear of death, or of oblivion
Unrelated??
Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Monday, December 22, 2014, Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au
mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 , Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au
wrote:
An instinct for self-preservation
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
Evolution gave living things an instinct for self-preservation. But you can
have such an instinct operating healthily and still not fear death.
Unrelated? Bob and Don are crossing a street when a large truck turns
a corner
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
Following that reasoning, do you believe there is nothing wrong with
murder?
How on earth did you get that from what I said?
I don't think Stathis needed to make a very big step to get to that from
what you said.
John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
Evolution gave living things an instinct for self-preservation. But you can
have such an instinct operating healthily and still not fear death.
Unrelated? Bob and Don are crossing a street when a large
John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au
mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
Following that reasoning, do you believe there is nothing wrong
with murder?
How on earth did you get that from what I said?
I don't think Stathis
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Clark
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2014 4:03 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Natural gas: The fracking fallacy
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything
On Monday, December 22, 2014, Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au
wrote:
Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Monday, December 22, 2014, Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au
mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 , Bruce Kellett
On 12/21/2014 11:40 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
There is a difference between fearing oblivion, and fearing having a too much short
life. That is why we find the death of our parents very sad but somehow acceptable, and
we find unbearable and unconsolable with the death of a child.
That fear is
Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Monday, December 22, 2014, Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au
mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Monday, December 22, 2014, Bruce Kellett
bhkell...@optusnet.com.au mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 PM, Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
Bob and Don are crossing a street when a large truck turns
a corner and is heading straight for both of them. Bob has a fear of
death but Don has a instinct for self preservation, please tell me
about the unrelated and
On 12/21/2014 3:27 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote:
John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 , Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
An instinct for self-preservation is unrelated to whether or not
you have a fear of death, or of oblivion
Unrelated?? Don't be ridiculous! Why the hell do you
On Monday, December 22, 2014, Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au
wrote:
Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Monday, December 22, 2014, Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au
mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Monday, December 22, 2014, Bruce
On 12/21/2014 3:36 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
But it's not just the bandits, it's also game theory. Modern democracies suffer from a
strong tendency to become Keynesian beauty contests. Very easily the optimal strategy
for the big parties becomes a move to the average opinion. Some people say
On 12/21/2014 3:47 PM, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote:
-Original Message-
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Kellett
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2014 3:27 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re:
John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 PM, Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au
mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
Bob and Don are crossing a street when a large truck turns
a corner and is heading straight for both of them. Bob has a fear of
death but Don
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 , 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List
everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote:
You are out of touch on energy matters my dear fellow. The EIA and even
more so many investment houses such as Goldman Sachs for example where
making spectacular predictions about the extent
Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Monday, December 22, 2014, Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au
mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
If there's nothing wrong with oblivion, and murder leads to
oblivion, then there's nothing wrong with murder.
You slip too easily from
On 12/21/2014 5:09 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Monday, December 22, 2014, Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au
mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Monday, December 22, 2014, Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au
On 12/21/2014 6:14 PM, John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 PM, Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au
mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
Bob and Don are crossing a street when a large truck turns
a corner and is heading straight for both of them. Bob has a fear of
On 22 Dec 2014, at 9:33 am, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 1:51 AM, Pierz pier...@gmail.com wrote:
Right. I've been looking into that and decided around 150ly would be about
right for the effects he wants.
WR-104 is 2 Wolf Rayet stars in a very tight
On 12/21/2014 6:59 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote:
Who said it was irrational to stop an experience that one finds pleasurable? All I am
saying is that death comes to us all, and that it is irrational to fear death per se,
because once you are dead you are not around to worry about missing anything.
On 22 December 2014 at 16:42, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote:
Does this mean it doesn't make sense any longer to go to work on Monday?
Depends if you've booked your xmas holidays.
If the burst only lasts a few minutes it *might* be OK to be on the other
side of the world from it
meekerdb wrote:
On 12/21/2014 6:59 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote:
Who said it was irrational to stop an experience that one finds
pleasurable? All I am saying is that death comes to us all, and that
it is irrational to fear death per se, because once you are dead you
are not around to worry about
If death leads to oblivion, then there isn't much to worry about. However,
if death doesn't lead to oblivion, but rather to another state of being,
then there may be plenty to plan about!
None of us remember a life before this life. However, we all entered this
life! We entered this life in
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Clark
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2014 7:01 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Natural gas: The fracking fallacy
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 , 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything
On Monday, December 22, 2014, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote:
If death leads to oblivion, then there isn't much to worry about.
Atheists worry about death as much as theists.
However, if death doesn't lead to oblivion, but rather to another state of
being, then there may be
On Sunday, December 21, 2014 9:29:17 PM UTC, Bruce wrote:
Jason Resch wrote:
On Sunday, December 21, 2014, Bruce Kellett bhke...@optusnet.com.au
javascript:
mailto:bhke...@optusnet.com.au javascript: wrote:
Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Sunday, December 21, 2014, Bruce
All we know for certain is that oil and gas are finite resources that are
damaging the environment. The exact details of how this will play out are
uncertain, but we're getting more and more once in a lifetime weather
events around the world.
--
You received this message because you are
On 12/21/2014 9:01 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Monday, December 22, 2014, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com
mailto:samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote:
If death leads to oblivion, then there isn't much to worry about.
Atheists worry about death as much as theists.
However, if
On Monday, 22 December 2014, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 12/21/2014 5:09 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Monday, December 22, 2014, Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au
javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','bhkell...@optusnet.com.au'); wrote:
Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On
On 22-Dec-2014, at 11:20 am, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, 22 December 2014, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 12/21/2014 5:09 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Monday, December 22, 2014, Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au
wrote:
Stathis
On Monday, December 22, 2014, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote:
On 22-Dec-2014, at 11:20 am, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','stath...@gmail.com'); wrote:
On Monday, 22 December 2014, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Monday, 22 December 2014, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 12/21/2014 5:09 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Monday, December 22, 2014, Bruce Kellett
Following that reasoning, do you believe there is nothing
On 22-Dec-2014, at 11:38 am, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, December 22, 2014, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote:
On 22-Dec-2014, at 11:20 am, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, 22 December 2014, meekerdb
On 22 December 2014 at 12:05, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 2:45 PM, zibblequib...@gmail.com wrote:
Yesterday you said you had to conclude if the test detected
consciousness well it must also detect intelligence.
That's not what I said, you've got it
On 22 December 2014 at 20:12, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote:
On 22-Dec-2014, at 11:38 am, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
wrote:
What if life were not a sacred gift, but a phenomenon in a godless
universe with no meaning outside of itself? Would murder be OK then?
No.
On Monday, 22 December 2014, Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au
wrote:
Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Monday, 22 December 2014, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:
meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 12/21/2014 5:09 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Monday, December 22, 2014,
On 12/21/2014 10:20 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
If there's nothing wrong with oblivion, and murder leads to oblivion, then
there's
nothing wrong with murder.
There's nothing wrong with having a lot of money, and bank robbery leads to
having a
lot of money, then there's
Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Monday, 22 December 2014, Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au
mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Monday, 22 December 2014, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 22-Dec-2014, at 12:15 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
On 22 December 2014 at 20:12, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote:
On 22-Dec-2014, at 11:38 am, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote:
What if life were not a sacred gift, but a phenomenon in a godless universe
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