Mike,
Challenge met NRZI Non Return to Zero.. Here are some links hehe
http://www.mkp.com/books_catalog/cn/book/node27.htm
http://www.optimized.com/COMPENDI/FE-NRZI.htm
At 06:37 PM 7/27/00, you wrote:
MFM is Modified Frequency Modulation
RLL is Run Length Limited
They are descriptions
Mike,
Challenge met NRZI Non Return to Zero.. Here are some links hehe
http://www.mkp.com/books_catalog/cn/book/node27.htm
http://www.optimized.com/COMPENDI/FE-NRZI.htm
At 06:37 PM 7/27/00, you wrote:
MFM is Modified Frequency Modulation
RLL is Run Length Limited
They are descriptions
modified freq modulation---eww.
Well, its all I had back then, 20 Meg hard drive on a
ATT Unix PC. I know this was not that long ago
maybe, 1992 or something, but does anyone remember
the ATT Unix Pc?
On Fri, 28 Jul 2000, you wrote:
John Aldrich wrote:
Hey, speaking of the ORIGINAL
Well NREM means National Research and Engineering Network---
On Thu, 27 Jul 2000, you wrote:
MFM is Modified Frequency Modulation
RLL is Run Length Limited
They are descriptions of how the bias current is manipulated to encode
the 0's and 1's on the physical media. You were
Jim Hodgers wrote:
At 06:10 PM 07/26/2000, Mark wrote:
I've really been enjoying it. I think it's really cool to hear about the
early days of computers and programming. These people that were in the
industry in those days really broke the ground and set the standards that
the rest of us
Jim Hodgers wrote:
units. It turned out that this was the computer for the Dew Line(radar
scanning of the northern path for missiles). After finally giving them a
working equivalent af a 12AX7 I understand they were able to turn off all
but one of the air conditioning units on the roof
ot; Hehehehe.
Pj
Sorry... :^) I was using the term as I do verbally when slurring
"alzheimers"(sp?)...
Pierre
-Original Message-
From: Pierre Fortin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: [expert] OT: h
Thus spake Nightwriter ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
Mike,
Challenge met NRZI Non Return to Zero.. Here are some links hehe
Isn't it Non Return to Zero *Inverted*?
--
|Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept. | Music does not have to be understood|
|Camosun College, Victoria, BC, Canada| It has
Deryk Barker wrote:
But my favourite speed, nopt that I ever used it, but it was in all
the books, was 134.5 baud. I seem to recall this speed was used by the
comms version of the IBM Selectric typewriter, which was used as a
mainframe console. (I suspect they were aiming for 135 - or
No...another machine I have, but they're not networked yet. I was
wondering what to do when the occassional hard freeze happens. Thankfully
it doesn't happen very often with Linux and I REALLY hate doing hard
boots when it does.
--
Mark
** Registered Linux user # 182496 **
Hey, speaking of the ORIGINAL topic here anyone remember MFM hard
drives??? I am subscribed to a list from Hitechcafe.com and this
morning in their list of items they have on special, the included the
following:
0083MB MFM 3.5 X 1.6 15MS HARD DRIVE - $89 ITEM #...ST1100
At 06:10 PM 07/26/2000, Mark wrote:
I've really been enjoying it. I think it's really cool to hear about the
early days of computers and programming. These people that were in the
industry in those days really broke the ground and set the standards that
the rest of us take for granted!
Mark
No
Original Message-
From: Pierre Fortin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: [expert] OT: harddrive flashback
Pj wrote:
Well, ya all make me ashamed to admit to learning keypunch-- compliments
of
IBM-- for Caterpill
On Thu, 27 Jul 2000, you wrote:
No...another machine I have, but they're not networked yet. I was
wondering what to do when the occassional hard freeze happens. Thankfully
it doesn't happen very often with Linux and I REALLY hate doing hard
boots when it does.
Heh. Well, what're you waiting
MFM is Modified Frequency Modulation
RLL is Run Length Limited
They are descriptions of how the bias current is manipulated to encode
the 0's and 1's on the physical media. You were *SUPPOSED* to use MFM
controllers with MFM drives and RLL controllers *ONLY* with RLL
certified drives, but a lot
I think I still have my Perstor controller buried in my closet somewhere
At 10:09 AM 7/27/2000 -0400, you wrote:
Hey, speaking of the ORIGINAL topic here anyone remember MFM hard
drives??? I am subscribed to a list from Hitechcafe.com and this
morning in their list of items they have on
Thus spake Jim Hodgers ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
[...]
scanning of the northern path for missiles). After finally giving them a
working equivalent af a 12AX7 I understand they were able to turn off all
but one of the air conditioning units on the roof because a Fettron had no
filament to heat.
John Aldrich wrote:
Hey, speaking of the ORIGINAL topic here anyone remember MFM hard
drives???
And by the way, you __can__ support such beasts (if you have any)
in Linux, using the "XT hard drive" driver.
--
Jean-Louis Debert[EMAIL PROTECTED]
74 Annemasse France
old Linux
Yeah...yeah...yeah... that assembly code was nice, just too much pushing and pulling
for me. One of my school projects was to get a Northstar Advantage Z80
microprocessor-based business machine (it actually had 2 [get that--two!?] 360k 5 1/4
inch floppies!!! Brandy-spamkin' new!) to play music
Mark Weaver wrote:
Ok...I'm still a little foggy on this console stuff. I'm only half
there. So, if my desktop freezes as it has once or twice since I've
started working with Linux,(about 14 months), and CTL-ALT-BACKSPACE
doesn't take me out of X, then will CTL-ALT-Fx (x = 1-6) get me there
Thus spake John Aldrich ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
On Mon, 24 Jul 2000, you wrote:
honestly I can't begin to imagine writting a program on punch
cards. seems to me that something like that would take literally forever!
I took a class back in the early 80's on how to program in RPG. The
funny
Thus spake Mark Weaver ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
Didn't anyone use Assembler back then? I thought that came before
COBOL?
Indeed it did. The first high level language in general use was
Backus's FORTRAN, although he himself did not originally envisage it
as being a portable language, rather that
On Wed, 26 Jul 2000, Darryl Gibson wrote:
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 01:16:33 -0400
From: Darryl Gibson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [expert] OT: harddrive flashback
Mark Weaver wrote:
Ok...I'm still a little foggy on this console
On Tue, Jul 25, 2000 at 17:39 +0200, Alexander Skwar wrote:
Thanks to all of you for sharing your history :] But that makes me think.
Now we heard all those "old timers". What will we (the youngsters at about
age 20) be telling in 20-30 years?
We will be trying to explain what those
|-Original Message-
|From: Mark Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
|Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 6:28 PM
|To: Jose M. Sanchez
|Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|Subject: RE: [expert] OT: harddrive flashback
|
|
|Didn't anyone use Assembler back then? I thought that came before
|COBOL? Personally I love
Mark Weaver wrote:
Didn't anyone use Assembler back then? I thought that came before
COBOL? Personally I love Assembler. So much more control, although COBOL
does have it's good points too.
--
Mark
Yup, for about 7 years batch CICS on MVS (big iron), Intel on the
PeeCee (under CPM
Sarang!
...I'm speechless! Thankyou. I'll be chewing on this for a while.
--
Mark
** Registered Linux user # 182496 **
On Tue, 25 Jul 2000, Sarang Lakare wrote:
Mark Weaver wrote:
Ok...I'm still a little foggy on this console stuff. I'm only half
there.
:) ... my wife thinks the same thing about me sometimes. -- in reference
to last comment. At first I hated Assembler because I was so stinkin
confused what with ALL the stuff that was going on at once and all the
rules that you had to know all at once to use it, and just when I THOUGHT
I was
On Tue, Jul 25, 2000 at 08:59:02AM -0400, John Aldrich wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jul 2000, you wrote:
honestly I can't begin to imagine writting a program on punch
cards. seems to me that something like that would take literally forever!
I took a class back in the early 80's on how to program in
On Tue, 25 Jul 2000, you wrote:
Ok...I'm still a little foggy on this console stuff. I'm only half
there. So, if my desktop freezes as it has once or twice since I've
started working with Linux,(about 14 months), and CTL-ALT-BACKSPACE
doesn't take me out of X, then will CTL-ALT-Fx (x = 1-6)
Thus spake Greg Stewart ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
[...]
But that internet was definitely a hoot at 112 baud!
112? I can clearly recall working with an acoustic coupler over a line
so noisy that 110 was the best we could manage.
But my favourite speed, nopt that I ever used it, but it was in all
the
Greg Stewart wrote:
Nope, hadn't that particular thrill...but I do remeber the card readers and tape..
assUme you mean "mag" tape here... :^)
And, only heard about the plug boards when I was first learning programming.
"Wrote" more plugboards than I care to remember (IBM407 Accounting
Pj wrote:
Well, ya all make me ashamed to admit to learning keypunch-- compliments of
IBM-- for Caterpillar. The mainframe, I believe, was in its infancy at then.
Pj
The 026 or 029 punch? :^) Wow... I've forgotten the sorter and card
interpretter (080?) models... "ol'timers" setting
Deryk Barker wrote:
Thus spake Mark Weaver ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
honestly I can't begin to imagine writting a program on punch
cards. seems to me that something like that would take literally
forever!
Only if you had to punch the cards one hole at a time, by hand (as I
did with the
Greg Stewart wrote:
What I learned was that you basically had to "build" a circuit that performed a
particular function.
Kinda' like a Light Brite, but instead of pretty pictures, it was actually worth
something... :)
That's a pretty good analogy! The only difference was that the wiring
On Wed, 26 Jul 2000, Charles Curley wrote:
On Tue, Jul 25, 2000 at 08:59:02AM -0400, John Aldrich wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jul 2000, you wrote:
honestly I can't begin to imagine writting a program on punch
cards. seems to me that something like that would take literally forever!
I took a
nday, July 23, 2000 6:33 PM
|To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|Subject: [expert] OT: harddrive flashback
|
|
|From: Using MS-DOS 6.2 (QUE book) 1993
|
|Pg. 140; pgph 5:
|
|"Hard disks have changed the most. A number of technology have come and
|gone as hard disks have steadily gotten larger and faster.
|-Original Message-
|From: Mark Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
|Sent: Monday, July 24, 2000 11:16 PM
|To: Greg Stewart
|Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|Subject: Re: [expert] OT: harddrive flashback
|
|
|I never heard about the plug boards. What were they, and what specifically
|might one use
When I was in tech. school, I programed an analog computer. It was
basically an op-amp made out of vacuum tubes. It could only add,
subtract, multiply and divide, and was "programed" by resistors. The
result was read on an analog voltmeter.
It was kept undercover in the corner of the digital
Deryk Barker wrote:
Thus spake Mark Weaver ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
honestly I can't begin to imagine writting a program on punch
cards. seems to me that something like that would take literally
forever!
Only if you had to punch the cards one hole at a time, by hand (as I
did with the
I remember my first internet experience was playing Star Trek on a DEC
terminal through a telephone coupler as a modem link.
ha,
the first thing I did on a computer was play wumpus on the PDP 10 at colgate
when I was seven. startrek was a little too ceribral for me at the time. I
remember
I learned COBOL in college back in 1968 by using punch
cards. You wrote out your lines of code on coding
sheets then stood in line to get a turn on the keypunch
machine. Then take your bundle of cards to the admin.
building basement and submitted your cards to the "computer
technician", who ran
ng on them. Then you find
out the sorter is busted.
Ron
- Original Message -
From: "vern" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 6:05 AM
Subject: Re: [expert] OT: harddrive flashback
I learned COBOL in college back in 1968 by using punch
cards. You
On Mon, 24 Jul 2000, you wrote:
What does CTL+ALT+F3 do?
switches you to a new virtual terminal complete with login, etc.
John
On Mon, 24 Jul 2000, you wrote:
honestly I can't begin to imagine writting a program on punch
cards. seems to me that something like that would take literally forever!
I took a class back in the early 80's on how to program in RPG. The
funny thing was, that even though we were using
On Tue, Jul 25, 2000 at 06:07:56AM -0400, Cokey de Percin wrote:
[ another nice little story ]
Thanks to all of you for sharing your history :] But that makes me think.
Now we heard all those "old timers". What will we (the youngsters at about
age 20) be telling in 20-30 years?
Alexander
That is absolutely incredible. It's almost hard to believe how far
everything has come in a short amount of time.
Gavin Clark wrote:
I remember my first internet experience was playing Star Trek on a DEC
terminal through a telephone coupler as a modem link.
ha,
the first thing I did on
WOW! that is just SO awesome! You guys REALLY blazed the trail for the
rest of us. Wow!
vern wrote:
I learned COBOL in college back in 1968 by using punch
cards. You wrote out your lines of code on coding
sheets then stood in line to get a turn on the keypunch
machine. Then take your
Ok...I'm still a little foggy on this console stuff. I'm only half
there. So, if my desktop freezes as it has once or twice since I've
started working with Linux,(about 14 months), and CTL-ALT-BACKSPACE
doesn't take me out of X, then will CTL-ALT-Fx (x = 1-6) get me there
without having to do a
D]]
|Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2000 6:33 PM
|To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|Subject: [expert] OT: harddrive flashback
|
|
|From: Using MS-DOS 6.2 (QUE book) 1993
|
|Pg. 140; pgph 5:
|
|"Hard disks have changed the most. A number of technology have come and
|gone as hard disks have steadil
will it work when the desktop freezes up tight?
--
Mark
** Registered Linux user # 182496 **
On Tue, 25 Jul 2000, John Aldrich wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jul 2000, you wrote:
What does CTL+ALT+F3 do?
switches you to a new virtual terminal complete with login, etc.
Well if your in the right part of the install, I *think* its F3 it will bring
you to a shell where all the script is flying by, yes its the authconfig
or something like that which froze on mine, then I just went in and
killed it, and it went on without a hitch, then when I booted the
server up, I
-a-days we use SEM technology to test quality and measure
deviations in design geometry on the read-write heads.
Am I old?
- Original Message -
From: Vic [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2000 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: [expert] OT: harddrive
Pj wrote:
From: Using MS-DOS 6.2 (QUE book) 1993
Pg. 140; pgph 5:
"Hard disks have changed the most. A number of technology have come and
gone as hard disks have steadily gotten larger and faster. Drives capable
of storing more than two gygabytes(two billion bytes) now cost less than
On Sun, Jul 23, 2000 at 04:20:52PM -0700, Anton Graham wrote:
Submitted 23-Jul-00 by Pj:
From: Using MS-DOS 6.2 (QUE book) 1993
Pg. 140; pgph 5:
"Hard disks have changed the most. A number of technology have come and
gone as hard disks have steadily gotten larger and faster.
Thus spake Charles Curley ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
[...]
I remember when the first manufacturer of a microcomputer offered a hard
drive. It was Ohio Scientific, which made a 6502-based multi-user computer
which did everything in BASIC. The hard drive was an OEMed 74 MB 14" rack
mounted hard
I recently saw a memory chip on the wall of a computer store. It is a full
12-inches square and 2-inches thick. The funny thing is--the size of the
memory is actually quite small.
Thanks for the blast from the past! I was sure we had some old 'heads' on
this list that were contributing answers
Greg Stewart wrote:
I remember when a 10MB hard drive was the size of pizza, fit into a
refridgerator-sized beast ofa cabinet, and PCs had 8 1/2 inch floppy diskettes!
No one remembers the Diablo drives, 5M fixed 5M removable (soft sectored
cartridges made for some fun when mounted on a
Please! you have my undivided attention. Tell me more about the "good ole
days". I'm a mainframe student at a local college and I never tire of
hearing about the early days of the BIG mainframes and early PCs.
--
Mark
** Registered Linux user # 182496 **
On Mon, 24 Jul
Amen Pj...Amen!
--
Mark
** Registered Linux user # 182496 **
On Mon, 24 Jul 2000, Pj wrote:
I recently saw a memory chip on the wall of a computer store. It is a full
12-inches square and 2-inches thick. The funny thing is--the size of the
memory is actually quite
I never had too much trouble with the Mandrake,
thats why I guess I stuck around.
Sure everyone pulls their hair and whacks
the keyboard and swears a little bit.
I hear alot about troubles with this ver and that one,
funny thing, I was able to hack my way around the
funky installer on ver 7.0
Nope, hadn't that particular thrill...but I do remeber the card readers and tape..
And, only heard about the plug boards when I was first learning programming.
I remember my first internet experience was playing Star Trek on a DEC terminal
through a telephone coupler as a modem link. I *did*
holy hanna! that sounds great! Some of that stuff had to be terribly
frustrating though.
--
Mark
** Registered Linux user # 182496 **
On Mon, 24 Jul 2000, Pierre Fortin wrote:
Greg Stewart wrote:
I remember when a 10MB hard drive was the size of pizza, fit into a
Well, ya all make me ashamed to admit to learning keypunch-- compliments of
IBM-- for Caterpillar. The mainframe, I believe, was in its infancy at then.
Pj
At 03:01 AM 7/25/00 -, you wrote:
Nope, hadn't that particular thrill...but I do remeber the card readers
and tape..
And, only
What does CTL+ALT+F3 do?
--
Mark
** Registered Linux user # 182496 **
On Mon, 24 Jul 2000, Vic wrote:
I never had too much trouble with the Mandrake,
thats why I guess I stuck around.
Sure everyone pulls their hair and whacks
the keyboard and swears a little bit.
I never heard about the plug boards. What were they, and what specifically
might one use one for?
--
Mark
** Registered Linux user # 182496 **
On 25 Jul 2000, Greg Stewart wrote:
Nope, hadn't that particular thrill...but I do remeber the card readers and tape..
Actually... when it was top o' the line equipment (or in my case, when we didn't
really know any better) it was more of a high tech challenge than a frustration. We
thought we were hot-sh%# just for knowing how to do it.
Of course, no one seemed to like us in High School. :)
--Greg
holy
Actually... when it was top o' the line equipment (or in my case, when we didn't
really know any better) it was more of a high tech challenge than a frustration. We
thought we were hot-sh%# just for knowing how to do it.
Of course, no one seemed to like us in High School. :)
--Greg
holy
What I learned was that you basically had to "build" a circuit that performed a
particular function.
Kinda' like a Light Brite, but instead of pretty pictures, it was actually worth
something... :)
--Greg
I never heard about the plug boards. What were they, and what specifically
might one
honestly I can't begin to imagine writting a program on punch
cards. seems to me that something like that would take literally forever!
--
Mark
** Registered Linux user # 182496 **
On Mon, 24 Jul 2000, Pj wrote:
Well, ya all make me ashamed to admit to learning
Thus spake Mark Weaver ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
honestly I can't begin to imagine writting a program on punch
cards. seems to me that something like that would take literally
forever!
Only if you had to punch the cards one hole at a time, by hand (as I
did with the very first program I ever
Thus spake Greg Stewart ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
What I learned was that you basically had to "build" a circuit that
performed a particular function.
This is how the ENIAC was "programmed", although I think it had
several thousand plugs. You spent several days setting up the program
then spent a
Mark
It did, especially in Cobol hehe, The worst part was if you forgot to
put the receive tray in the card reader correctly and all 500 cards came
flying out all over the room funny as heck till it happened to you
hehe.The most boring part was waiting for the output so that
Markthe f1 through the f6 keys in conjunction with ctl-alt
will access each of the 6 tty consoles available in the
Mandrake distro. The second line of text below the big
graphic penguin tells you which console you are in by the tty
number following the cpu type (see tty3 below):
Linux
Oh lordy, lordy.. I haven't hearld Light Bright mentioned for 30 years.
Pj
At 03:34 AM 7/25/00 -, you wrote:
What I learned was that you basically had to "build" a circuit that
performed a particular function.
Kinda' like a Light Brite, but instead of pretty pictures, it was actually
From: Using MS-DOS 6.2 (QUE book) 1993
Pg. 140; pgph 5:
"Hard disks have changed the most. A number of technology have come and
gone as hard disks have steadily gotten larger and faster. Drives capable
of storing more than two gygabytes(two billion bytes) now cost less than
$2,500.
Who
Submitted 23-Jul-00 by Pj:
From: Using MS-DOS 6.2 (QUE book) 1993
Pg. 140; pgph 5:
"Hard disks have changed the most. A number of technology have come and
gone as hard disks have steadily gotten larger and faster. Drives capable
of storing more than two gygabytes(two billion bytes) now
On Sun, 23 Jul 2000, you wrote:
Submitted 23-Jul-00 by Pj:
From: Using MS-DOS 6.2 (QUE book) 1993
Pg. 140; pgph 5:
"Hard disks have changed the most. A number of technology have come and
gone as hard disks have steadily gotten larger and faster. Drives capable
of storing more
: [expert] OT: harddrive flashback
On Sun, 23 Jul 2000, you wrote:
Submitted 23-Jul-00 by Pj:
From: Using MS-DOS 6.2 (QUE book) 1993
Pg. 140; pgph 5:
"Hard disks have changed the most. A number of technology have come and
gone as hard disks have steadily gotten larger and f
- Original Message -
From: "John Aldrich" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2000 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [expert] OT: harddrive flashback
On Sun, 23 Jul 2000, you wrote:
Submitted 23-Jul-00 by Pj:
From: Using MS-DOS 6.2 (QUE book) 1993
Thus spake Pj ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
From: Using MS-DOS 6.2 (QUE book) 1993
Pg. 140; pgph 5:
"Hard disks have changed the most. A number of technology have come and
gone as hard disks have steadily gotten larger and faster. Drives capable
of storing more than two gygabytes(two billion
Original Message -
From: John Aldrich [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2000 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [expert] OT: harddrive flashback
On Sun, 23 Jul 2000, you wrote:
Submitted 23-Jul-00 by Pj:
From: Using MS-DOS 6.2 (QUE book) 1993
Pg. 140;
I remember when a 10MB hard drive was the size of pizza, fit
into a refridgerator-sized beast ofa cabinet, and PCs had
8 1/2 inch floppy diskettes!
You probably also remember Circuit Cellar and Chaos Manor.
(So do I.)
]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2000 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: [expert] OT: harddrive flashback
Were those pizza sized discs a type of hard cartridge
with the name "Nashua" stamped on the side?
And did they have a clean function in which an arm
came out over the inst
geometry on the read-write heads.
Am I old?
- Original Message -
From: Vic [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2000 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: [expert] OT: harddrive flashback
Were those pizza sized discs a type of hard cartridge
with the na
Same age (32), but I had the fortunate experience of working for a company that liked
to "hold on" to the REALLY old equipment (sentimental reasons?).
That depends on what your definition of "old" is,
I'm 31 but alot of people keep guessing the wrong age.
How old are you?
These discs
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