[Felvtalk] Daisy
Last night, rather early this morning my cat Daisy jumped up on my bed and woke me up with her attack play. She does this sometimes when she wants out. Well I let her out and got back in bed. Now Spike was using the litter box and I smelled really strong urine. I moved to turn my light on to make sure she wasn't missing the box. Well Daisy had peed on me and the bed. Far as I could tell it was normal. I think maybe it is behavioral bc she hates my feral cat who I let in to eat. Last night I had separated them. I have done that in the past as well . I will keep and eye on her but she prefers to stay outside so it may be hard to monitor her bathroom habits. What do you think? Should I panic and take her to the vet or see what happens. The rest of her behavior was normal for her. Daisy is not a positive. I think the urine output was adequate, but it is hard to tell when they pee on the bed. Sally -- Sally, Eric (not a cat),Junior(angel), Tiny(angel) Fluffy(soulmate angel), Speedy, Grey and White, Ittle Bitty, Little Black, Lily, Daisy, Pewter, Junior Junior (newest) I call him JJ , Silver, and Spike Please Visit my Message board for some pictures. You are welcome to sign up. http://www.k6az.com/ki4spk/index.php?sid=c57c00cf5804ef13853ed6e77a68eed3 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Daisy
Sally. I don't know if this is behavioral or a sign she may have a UTI. I would guess if she urinates inappropriately again a vet visit would be in order. Sharyl --- On Thu, 8/21/08, Sally Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Sally Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Felvtalk] Daisy To: FeLV Talk felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 10:33 AM Last night, rather early this morning my cat Daisy jumped up on my bed and woke me up with her attack play. She does this sometimes when she wants out. Well I let her out and got back in bed. Now Spike was using the litter box and I smelled really strong urine. I moved to turn my light on to make sure she wasn't missing the box. Well Daisy had peed on me and the bed. Far as I could tell it was normal. I think maybe it is behavioral bc she hates my feral cat who I let in to eat. Last night I had separated them. I have done that in the past as well . I will keep and eye on her but she prefers to stay outside so it may be hard to monitor her bathroom habits. What do you think? Should I panic and take her to the vet or see what happens. The rest of her behavior was normal for her. Daisy is not a positive. I think the urine output was adequate, but it is hard to tell when they pee on the bed. Sally -- Sally, Eric (not a cat),Junior(angel), Tiny(angel) Fluffy(soulmate angel), Speedy, Grey and White, Ittle Bitty, Little Black, Lily, Daisy, Pewter, Junior Junior (newest) I call him JJ , Silver, and Spike Please Visit my Message board for some pictures. You are welcome to sign up. http://www.k6az.com/ki4spk/index.php?sid=c57c00cf5804ef13853ed6e77a68eed3 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] I am a member
I sent a question but got a reply that I'm a non-member who posted a question to a members-only group. But as per the e-mail below, I am a member. Thank you. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 12:34 pm Subject: Welcome to the Felvtalk mailing list Welcome to the Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org mailing list! To post to this list, send your email to: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org General information about the mailing list is at: http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your subscription page at: http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/options/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org/astatfeld%40aol.com You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions. You must know your password to change your options (including changing the password, itself) or to unsubscribe. It is: adrienne Normally, Mailman will remind you of your felineleukemia.org mailing list passwords once every month, although you can disable this if you prefer. This reminder will also include instructions on how to unsubscribe or change your account options. There is also a button on your options page that will email your current password to you. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] I am a member
This email did come through.Try again? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 10:45 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] I am a member I sent a question but got a reply that I'm a non-member who posted a question to a members-only group. But as per the e-mail below, I am a member. Thank you. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 12:34 pm Subject: Welcome to the Felvtalk mailing list Welcome to the Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org mailing list! To post to this list, send your email to: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org General information about the mailing list is at: http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your subscription page at: http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/options/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org/astatf eld%40aol.com You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions. You must know your password to change your options (including changing the password, itself) or to unsubscribe. It is: adrienne Normally, Mailman will remind you of your felineleukemia.org mailing list passwords once every month, although you can disable this if you prefer. This reminder will also include instructions on how to unsubscribe or change your account options. There is also a button on your options page that will email your current password to you. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Daisy
Hi Sharyl That is how I am treating it. She is a weird cat anyway. She did this once before when she was in heat. Waiting for her spay appt. I really think she was letting me know she did not like me letting Little Black in the house. I have to feed LB in the house becuase the raccoons will eat her food before she can. She usually goes back out in an hour. Daisy has a delicate stoamch too. Will puke undigested food several times a week. It was better when I had them on IAMS, but I can hardly afford food for myself. Thanks Sally On 8/21/08, Sharyl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sally. I don't know if this is behavioral or a sign she may have a UTI. I would guess if she urinates inappropriately again a vet visit would be in order. Sharyl --- On Thu, 8/21/08, Sally Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Sally Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Felvtalk] Daisy To: FeLV Talk felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 10:33 AM Last night, rather early this morning my cat Daisy jumped up on my bed and woke me up with her attack play. She does this sometimes when she wants out. Well I let her out and got back in bed. Now Spike was using the litter box and I smelled really strong urine. I moved to turn my light on to make sure she wasn't missing the box. Well Daisy had peed on me and the bed. Far as I could tell it was normal. I think maybe it is behavioral bc she hates my feral cat who I let in to eat. Last night I had separated them. I have done that in the past as well . I will keep and eye on her but she prefers to stay outside so it may be hard to monitor her bathroom habits. What do you think? Should I panic and take her to the vet or see what happens. The rest of her behavior was normal for her. Daisy is not a positive. I think the urine output was adequate, but it is hard to tell when they pee on the bed. Sally -- Sally, Eric (not a cat),Junior(angel), Tiny(angel) Fluffy(soulmate angel), Speedy, Grey and White, Ittle Bitty, Little Black, Lily, Daisy, Pewter, Junior Junior (newest) I call him JJ , Silver, and Spike Please Visit my Message board for some pictures. You are welcome to sign up. http://www.k6az.com/ki4spk/index.php?sid=c57c00cf5804ef13853ed6e77a68eed3 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Sally, Eric (not a cat),Junior(angel), Tiny(angel) Fluffy(soulmate angel), Speedy, Grey and White, Ittle Bitty, Little Black, Lily, Daisy, Pewter, Junior Junior (newest) I call him JJ , Silver, and Spike Please Visit my Message board for some pictures. You are welcome to sign up. http://www.k6az.com/ki4spk/index.php?sid=c57c00cf5804ef13853ed6e77a68eed3 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] chemotherapy?
Hello. My beloved Emma is 5 ½ years old. Two years ago she was diagnosed as being FeLV+. I dont know how this happened. I raised Emma and her sisters from the time they were about two days old. Her sisters are negative, as are my other cats, despite the fact that they have all lived together as indoor only cats, and have groomed each other, and shared bowls, litter boxes, and dishes. Emma tested negative for FeLV as a kitten. She has never been outside except in a carrier. Yesterday, I got the news that Emma has Lymphoma. Ive started her on Prednisone, and the doctor is recommending chemotherapy. The doctor estimated an 8 to 10 month survival rate for cats with Lymphoma who go through chemotherapy, but couldnt give me any idea of the prognosis for a cat who has FeLV. Any opinion about chemotherapy for an FeLV+ cat with Lymphoma? Im heartbroken and I dont want to do anything to prolong my beautiful girls suffering. Thank you. Adrienne ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Lysine added to dry food?
My felv+ foster Manny is going to his new home tonight (with lots of instructions, favorite toys, and probably some lingering anxiety from me!). Manny has been a finnicky canned food eater ever since I've had him- which has sucked b/c that is how I like to get supplements in him like lysine and added water. But he loves loves loves the Eagle Pack Holistic Dry (which I have all my fosters on)-- LOVES IT. As much I would like to convert all my cats to all canned- they just love their Eagle Pack dry too much. And they have the most awesome coats- I get compliments on my fosters all the time- how good they look, none are fat, no dander, shiny, soft coats-- thus, I am very happy with the Holistic. But all my fosters also get Holistic canned everyday, with water and supplements added, so I am sure that helps keeping them look great too. Manny will occasionally eat the Holistic canned, but he won't eat it in back to back feedings or two days in a row (he's nutty). I originally tried to feed him a diet of Wellness canned only and he just stopped eating it totally (waste of expensive food)! That is when I switched him to Eagle Pack. So as far as sending him to his new home with feeding and supplment instructions, his new mom says she doesn't want to change anything b/c he looks so gorgeous and his coat is so wonderful, so she will keep him on the Holistic Dry. I've asked that she occassionally give him some canned Holistic, but warned that he won't eat it 2 days in a row. I'd like to send her with instructions to add powdered Lysine to his dry food and was wondering if people thought this will work? I have done it a few times with him and he seemed to not notice/care, but it hasn't been my primary way of administering lysine b/c I did keep up with giving him canned food every few days. I think it will work tho b/c he loves his Holistic so much, I seriously doubt he won't eat it due to the Lysine powder. Also, what is a good maintenance dose? He is as healthy as a horse, so I just want to provide it to them as a preventative measure. thanks caroline _ See what people are saying about Windows Live. Check out featured posts. http://www.windowslive.com/connect?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_connect2_082008 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Lysine added to dry food?
Hi Caroline, I put the lysine in the water. I don't know if it will work in dry food or not. Kelley -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home?tag=rescuties-20 Check out our Memsaic! http://www.memsaic.com/app/launch.cfm?sid=08D2CAB2A6E9 http://www.zazzle.com/rescuties* Please help with some of our kitties medical needs! http://rescuties.chipin.com/kitties-medical-expenses Rather than helping, it's easier to point fingers and say take them first as long as you leave me alone. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] chemotherapy?
Hi, Adrienne. I'm sorry Emma is ill. There are lots of people on this list who will give you some really good pointers. I don't have any personal experience with chemo for FeLV+ cats; by the time my Patches turned up on my doorstep and was diagnosed, it was really too late to consider chemo. I do know that cats tolerate it much better than humans do. I think one of the questions the others here will ask is, what symptoms was Emma displaying that resulted in the vet visit where the lymphoma was diagnosed -- in other words, was she acting sick, and how has her health been generally since the FeLV diagnosis? And about that -- although the presence of the lymphoma points toward the FeLV diagnosis being accurate, is it 100% certain that she really does have FeLV? False negatives and false positives aren't uncommon with these tests, especially if only the in-office test was given. This doesn't, of course, affect the lymphoma itself, just Emma's general hardiness. Do you feel that she is suffering now? Also, how have you been treating the FeLV? Supplements, diet, etc.? I hope you and Emma still have some good time left together. Hugs. Diane R. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adrienne Statfeld Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 10:40 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] chemotherapy? Hello. My beloved Emma is 5 ½ years old. Two years ago she was diagnosed as being FeLV+. I don't know how this happened. I raised Emma and her sisters from the time they were about two days old. Her sisters are negative, as are my other cats, despite the fact that they have all lived together as indoor only cats, and have groomed each other, and shared bowls, litter boxes, and dishes. Emma tested negative for FeLV as a kitten. She has never been outside except in a carrier. Yesterday, I got the news that Emma has Lymphoma. I've started her on Prednisone, and the doctor is recommending chemotherapy. The doctor estimated an 8 to 10 month survival rate for cats with Lymphoma who go through chemotherapy, but couldn't give me any idea of the prognosis for a cat who has FeLV. Any opinion about chemotherapy for an FeLV+ cat with Lymphoma? I'm heartbroken and I don't want to do anything to prolong my beautiful girl's suffering. Thank you. Adrienne ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org This electronic mail transmission and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged. They should be read or retained only by the intended recipient. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the transmission from your system. In addition, in order to comply with Treasury Circular 230, we are required to inform you that unless we have specifically stated to the contrary in writing, any advice we provide in this email or any attachment concerning federal tax issues or submissions is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid federal tax penalties. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Lysine added to dry food?
oh you do? powdered lysine? okay, I will have them do that. That seems easy enough! God, I am so excited and also so nervous and yet, so happy for Manny! I'm going to miss him. He's my most gorgeous boy and the most friendly in the house, so now I will have no male-model cat to show off to people. Sigh. caroline Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:34:58 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Lysine added to dry food? Hi Caroline, I put the lysine in the water. I don't know if it will work in dry food or not. Kelley -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home?tag=rescuties-20 Check out our Memsaic! http://www.memsaic.com/app/launch.cfm?sid=08D2CAB2A6E9 http://www.zazzle.com/rescuties* Please help with some of our kitties medical needs! http://rescuties.chipin.com/kitties-medical-expenses Rather than helping, it's easier to point fingers and say take them first as long as you leave me alone. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.orgoh you _ Get ideas on sharing photos from people like you. Find new ways to share. http://www.windowslive.com/explore/photogallery/posts?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Photo_Gallery_082008 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Lysine added to dry food?
He will probably eat it ok but if he doesn't, just dissolve it in a little bit of water and put it on the dry food. If he will eat the dry food without it, he will eat it with dissolved lysine, at least I have never had one refuse to eat it. Some of mine did refuse to eat it before I dissolved it. Gary - Original Message - From: Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 1:31 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Lysine added to dry food? My felv+ foster Manny is going to his new home tonight (with lots of instructions, favorite toys, and probably some lingering anxiety from me!). Manny has been a finnicky canned food eater ever since I've had him- which has sucked b/c that is how I like to get supplements in him like lysine and added water. But he loves loves loves the Eagle Pack Holistic Dry (which I have all my fosters on)-- LOVES IT. As much I would like to convert all my cats to all canned- they just love their Eagle Pack dry too much. And they have the most awesome coats- I get compliments on my fosters all the time- how good they look, none are fat, no dander, shiny, soft coats-- thus, I am very happy with the Holistic. But all my fosters also get Holistic canned everyday, with water and supplements added, so I am sure that helps keeping them look great too. Manny will occasionally eat the Holistic canned, but he won't eat it in back to back feedings or two days in a row (he's nutty). I originally tried to feed him a diet of Wellness canned only and he just stopped eating it totally (waste of expensive food)! That is when I switched him to Eagle Pack. So as far as sending him to his new home with feeding and supplment instructions, his new mom says she doesn't want to change anything b/c he looks so gorgeous and his coat is so wonderful, so she will keep him on the Holistic Dry. I've asked that she occassionally give him some canned Holistic, but warned that he won't eat it 2 days in a row. I'd like to send her with instructions to add powdered Lysine to his dry food and was wondering if people thought this will work? I have done it a few times with him and he seemed to not notice/care, but it hasn't been my primary way of administering lysine b/c I did keep up with giving him canned food every few days. I think it will work tho b/c he loves his Holistic so much, I seriously doubt he won't eat it due to the Lysine powder. Also, what is a good maintenance dose? He is as healthy as a horse, so I just want to provide it to them as a preventative measure. thanks caroline _ See what people are saying about Windows Live. Check out featured posts. http://www.windowslive.com/connect?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_connect2_082008 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3373 (20080821) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] re chemotherapy?
my response is too long- so I split in two- didn't want Adrienne to have to wait on moderator approval. Sorry. 1st of 2 responses from me. Adrienne:I'm sorry about the diagnosis. I have been through this myself. This is a very personal decision you have to make. I can't tell you what to do, jut my experience. My beloved Monkee was diagnosed with lymphosarcoma in April 2007. He was also a Felv+ cat (I had had him tested 3 times). He lived 4 years with me as the picture of health until I found the lump on his leg in March. He was my only cat and in short, I worshipped him. I'd lived for 4 years in fear of felv raising it's ugly head and actually started to think he was maybe a mere carrier and it would never claim him. I was desperate to save him and fight the good fight. Chemo was recommended and we began it immediately. It was very very very expensive and very hard on him. He hated it. He knew when we turned into the vet specialists clinic parking lot, even tho he was in his carrier and couldn't see-- he knew the last turn- could sense it. The problem with the chemo for a felv+ cat is manyfold: it stresses them out- which any added stress for a felv+ cat, whether symptomatic or not, is bad; chemo works by not only killing the bad cells, but the good ones too-- which will take a felv+ cat down even further than one that is felv-; also, what the doctor doesn't always tell you is that once they start the chemo, they have to monitor the white blood cell level. If the wbc count is too low, they can't admin chemo anyway. With Monkee, he had one chemo treatment and then we couldn't do another one for weeks (even tho the protocol he was to be on was once a week), b/c his wbc was so low and the vet couldn't tell if that was due to an infection (unlikely), the felv attacking his body (maybe), or the chemo itself killing off white blood cells (most likely). Monkee only had a few chemo treatments and the tumor on his leg didn't shrink- in fact, it grew. Either his leukemia was full blown by the time we even discovered the tumor, or the chemo itself hastened the leukemia's progress. That is one of the main risks with chemo that you have to consider. It can definitely have the opposite effect that you would want in that it can take the felv+ cat down so far by killing off the good cells remaining in your cats body-- white blood cells to fight infections AND red blood cells (if your cat is not yet anemic (low RBCs)), I can bet you that the chemo treatment itself will make the cat anemic due to killing off the RBCs. On that note, has the vet done a blood panel yet? I would ask for one now before you make a decision and find out what the RBC and WBC count is, among other things. You need to keep in mind that lymphosarcoma/lymphoma is the number 1 form of cancer that develops in domestic cats (felv and non felv) and dogs. I believe the vet profession automatically recommends chemo b/c of this type of cancer's prevalence in domestic cats and dogs, however, that doesn't mean that chemo should be the treatment of choice for an felv+ cat-- whereby the nature of the disease itself is an immunosuppressive disorder, and when it becomes active-- typically manifests itself as severe and life-threatening anemia. It seems a counter-intuitive treatment. _ Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how. http://www.windowslive.com/explore/messenger?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger_yahoo_082008 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] re chemotherapy? 2nd part
2 of 2 from me: I always said that, with what I learned in hindsight, if I had the opportunity to do it differently, I would. At the time, I was not educated enough on the disease to make a truly informed decision about the chemo and I was frantic and not thinking clearly. AND I was obsessed with Monkee and blinded by a belief that it was most important to try everything. I have come to realize now- especially since my work fostering cats since Monkee's death- that trying everything! IS NOT the most important, or most correct thing to do. If I ever have another felv+ cat and I am faced with the same dilemma, my choice will be to forego chemo, continue prednisone (which will make the cat's day to day life more comfortable and can sometimes have an effect on tumors- stabilize them, maybe even shrink them a little), and keep him happy, COMPLETELY NON-STRESSED, and spend every freaking moment loving him. I would continue to take the cat to the vet to monitor the red blood cells, etc. But I would forego chemo, the blood transfusions that almost always come with chemo and/or severe anemia caused by felv and/or the chemo treatment itself, and in Monkee's case, his specialist wanted the leg tumor surgically removed when the chemo didn't shrink it and honestly, I think the surgery just really knocked the poor thing past the point of return. He was in so much pain for 2 days after- it was horrible. We will never know for sure if the severe anemia that eventually caused him to die in my arms late one night, was caused by the felv itself becoming active, or if the chemo and/or surgery was actually the final straw in really kicking in the anemia. Yes it's likely his felv was already full-blown by the time the tumor was discovered, but in my opinion, the chemo and surgery definitely did not prolong his life. When the vet suggests chemo for this cancer, you have to know that they are reccommending this as a life-prolonging treatment that will at best, prolong the cat's life by only a few months. And you may say what I said-- that I have to give him those few months- I owe that to him! But what did I really do for him? Rush him off to multi vets- 2 vet specialists, borrowed money from my mom to pay for his extremely expensive treatment, stressed him out with blood taking, a blood transfusion, chemo and surgery...and stressed him out with my crying and crying and crying? I really suspect that the chemo/transfusions/surgery DID NOT prolong Monkee's life and wonder now how long we could have sailed along with him having his tumor on his leg (that didn't bother him at all!), taking prednisone (and feeling like super-Monkee!), and chilling in our little house-- happily eating raw chicken livers and raw lean buffalo (for his anemia), playing, napping and loving a non-stressfull life The gamble on the other side is, can you live with yourself and the questioning of yourself for not doing the chemo? You have to weigh both sides and what is best for your cat. Not what is best for you. Caroline (and Monkee in spirit) _ Get ideas on sharing photos from people like you. Find new ways to share. http://www.windowslive.com/explore/photogallery/posts?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Photo_Gallery_082008 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] re chemotherapy? 2nd part
Caroline, I've been considering asking the same question regarding a dear, sweet rescue kitty of ours, and want you to know how helpful your detailed reponse was. I remember reading about Monkee...thank you for all of the love you gave him. Heather On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2 of 2 from me: I always said that, with what I learned in hindsight, if I had the opportunity to do it differently, I would. At the time, I was not educated enough on the disease to make a truly informed decision about the chemo and I was frantic and not thinking clearly. AND I was obsessed with Monkee and blinded by a belief that it was most important to try everything. I have come to realize now- especially since my work fostering cats since Monkee's death- that trying everything! IS NOT the most important, or most correct thing to do. If I ever have another felv+ cat and I am faced with the same dilemma, my choice will be to forego chemo, continue prednisone (which will make the cat's day to day life more comfortable and can sometimes have an effect on tumors- stabilize them, maybe even shrink them a little), and keep him happy, COMPLETELY NON-STRESSED, and spend every freaking moment loving him. I would continue to take the cat to the vet to monitor the red blood cells, etc. But I would forego chemo, the blood transfusions that almost always come with chemo and/or severe anemia caused by felv and/or the chemo treatment itself, and in Monkee's case, his specialist wanted the leg tumor surgically removed when the chemo didn't shrink it and honestly, I think the surgery just really knocked the poor thing past the point of return. He was in so much pain for 2 days after- it was horrible. We will never know for sure if the severe anemia that eventually caused him to die in my arms late one night, was caused by the felv itself becoming active, or if the chemo and/or surgery was actually the final straw in really kicking in the anemia. Yes it's likely his felv was already full-blown by the time the tumor was discovered, but in my opinion, the chemo and surgery definitely did not prolong his life. When the vet suggests chemo for this cancer, you have to know that they are reccommending this as a life-prolonging treatment that will at best, prolong the cat's life by only a few months. And you may say what I said-- that I have to give him those few months- I owe that to him! But what did I really do for him? Rush him off to multi vets- 2 vet specialists, borrowed money from my mom to pay for his extremely expensive treatment, stressed him out with blood taking, a blood transfusion, chemo and surgery...and stressed him out with my crying and crying and crying? I really suspect that the chemo/transfusions/surgery DID NOT prolong Monkee's life and wonder now how long we could have sailed along with him having his tumor on his leg (that didn't bother him at all!), taking prednisone (and feeling like super-Monkee!), and chilling in our little house-- happily eating raw chicken livers and raw lean buffalo (for his anemia), playing, napping and loving a non-stressfull life The gamble on the other side is, can you live with yourself and the questioning of yourself for not doing the chemo? You have to weigh both sides and what is best for your cat. Not what is best for you. Caroline (and Monkee in spirit) _ Get ideas on sharing photos from people like you. Find new ways to share. http://www.windowslive.com/explore/photogallery/posts?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Photo_Gallery_082008 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] chemotherapy?
Adrienne: I'm sorry about the diagnosis. I have been through this myself. This is a very personal decision you have to make. I can't tell you what to do, jut my experience. My beloved Monkee was diagnosed with lymphosarcoma in April 2007. He was also a Felv+ cat (I had had him tested 3 times). He lived 4 years with me as the picture of health until I found the lump on his leg in March. He was my only cat and in short, I worshipped him. I'd lived for 4 years in fear of felv raising it's ugly head and actually started to think he was maybe a mere carrier and it would never claim him. I was desperate to save him and fight the good fight. Chemo was recommended and we began it immediately. It was very very very expensive and very hard on him. He hated it. He knew when we turned into the vet specialists clinic parking lot, even tho he was in his carrier and couldn't see-- he knew the last turn- could sense it. The problem with the chemo for a felv+ cat is manyfold: it stresses them out- which any added stress for a felv+ cat, whether symptomatic or not, is bad; chemo works by not only killing the bad cells, but the good ones too-- which will take a felv+ cat down even further than one that is felv-; also, what the doctor doesn't always tell you is that once they start the chemo, they have to monitor the white blood cell level. If the wbc count is too low, they can't admin chemo anyway. With Monkee, he had one chemo treatment and then we couldn't do another one for weeks (even tho the protocol he was to be on was once a week), b/c his wbc was so low and the vet couldn't tell if that was due to an infection (unlikely), the felv attacking his body (maybe), or the chemo itself killing off white blood cells (most likely). Monkee only had a few chemo treatments and the tumor on his leg didn't shrink- in fact, it grew. Either his leukemia was full blown by the time we even discovered the tumor, or the chemo itself hastened the leukemia's progress. That is one of the main risks with chemo that you have to consider. It can definitely have the opposite effect that you would want in that it can take the felv+ cat down so far by killing off the good cells remaining in your cats body-- white blood cells to fight infections AND red blood cells (if your cat is not yet anemic (low RBCs)), I can bet you that the chemo treatment itself will make the cat anemic due to killing off the RBCs. On that note, has the vet done a blood panel yet? I would ask for one now before you make a decision and find out what the RBC and WBC count is, among other things. You need to keep in mind that lymphosarcoma/lymphoma is the number 1 form of cancer that develops in domestic cats (felv and non felv) and dogs. I believe the vet profession automatically recommends chemo b/c of this type of cancer's prevalence in domestic cats and dogs, however, that doesn't mean that chemo should be the treatment of choice for an felv+ cat-- whereby the nature of the disease itself is an immunosuppressive disorder, and when it becomes active-- typically manifests itself as severe and life-threatening anemia. It seems a counter-intuitive treatment. I always said that, with what I learned in hindsight, if I had the opportunity to do it differently, I would. At the time, I was not educated enough on the disease to make a truly informed decision about the chemo and I was frantic and not thinking clearly. AND I was obsessed with Monkee and blinded by a belief that it was most important to try everything. I have come to realize now- especially since my work fostering cats since Monkee's death- that trying everything! IS NOT the most important, or most correct thing to do. If I ever have another felv+ cat and I am faced with the same dilemma, my choice will be to forego chemo, continue prednisone (which will make the cat's day to day life more comfortable and can sometimes have an effect on tumors- stabilize them, maybe even shrink them a little), and keep him happy, COMPLETELY NON-STRESSED, and spend every freaking moment loving him. I would continue to take the cat to the vet to monitor the red blood cells, etc. But I would forego chemo, the blood transfusions that almost always come with chemo and/or severe anemia caused by felv and/or the chemo treatment itself, and in Monkee's case, his specialist wanted the leg tumor surgically removed when the chemo didn't shrink it and honestly, I think the surgery just really knocked the poor thing past the point of return. He was in so much pain for 2 days after- it was horrible. We will never know for sure if the severe anemia that eventually caused him to die in my arms late one night, was caused by the felv itself becoming active, or if the chemo and/or surgery was actually the final straw in really kicking in the anemia. Yes it's likely his felv was already full-blown by the time the tumor was discovered, but in my
[Felvtalk] RE Chemotherapy?
Adrienne:I'm sorry about the diagnosis. I have been through this myself. This is a very personal decision you have to make. I can't tell you what to do, jut my experience. My beloved Monkee was diagnosed with lymphosarcoma in April 2007. He was also a Felv+ cat (I had had him tested 3 times). He lived 4 years with me as the picture of health until I found the lump on his leg in March. He was my only cat and in short, I worshipped him. I'd lived for 4 years in fear of felv raising it's ugly head and actually started to think he was maybe a mere carrier and it would never claim him. I was desperate to save him and fight the good fight. Chemo was recommended and we began it immediately. It was very very very expensive and very hard on him. He hated it. He knew when we turned into the vet specialists clinic parking lot, even tho he was in his carrier and couldn't see-- he knew the last turn- could sense it. The problem with the chemo for a felv+ cat is manyfold: it stresses them out- which any added stress for a felv+ cat, whether symptomatic or not, is bad; chemo works by not only killing the bad cells, but the good ones too-- which will take a felv+ cat down even further than one that is felv-; also, what the doctor doesn't always tell you is that once they start the chemo, they have to monitor the white blood cell level. If the wbc count is too low, they can't admin chemo anyway. With Monkee, he had one chemo treatment and then we couldn't do another one for weeks (even tho the protocol he was to be on was once a week), b/c his wbc was so low and the vet couldn't tell if that was due to an infection (unlikely), the felv attacking his body (maybe), or the chemo itself killing off white blood cells (most likely). Monkee only had a few chemo treatments and the tumor on his leg didn't shrink- in fact, it grew. Either his leukemia was full blown by the time we even discovered the tumor, or the chemo itself hastened the leukemia's progress. That is one of the main risks with chemo that you have to consider. It can definitely have the opposite effect that you would want in that it can take the felv+ cat down so far by killing off the good cells remaining in your cats body-- white blood cells to fight infections AND red blood cells (if your cat is not yet anemic (low RBCs)), I can bet you that the chemo treatment itself will make the cat anemic due to killing off the RBCs. On that note, has the vet done a blood panel yet? I would ask for one now before you make a decision and find out what the RBC and WBC count is, among other things. You need to keep in mind that lymphosarcoma/lymphoma is the number 1 form of cancer that develops in domestic cats (felv and non felv) and dogs. I believe the vet profession automatically recommends chemo b/c of this type of cancer's prevalence in domestic cats and dogs, however, that doesn't mean that chemo should be the treatment of choice for an felv+ cat-- whereby the nature of the disease itself is an immunosuppressive disorder, and when it becomes active-- typically manifests itself as severe and life-threatening anemia. It seems a counter-intuitive treatment. I always said that, with what I learned in hindsight, if I had the opportunity to do it differently, I would. At the time, I was not educated enough on the disease to make a truly informed decision about the chemo and I was frantic and not thinking clearly. AND I was obsessed with Monkee and blinded by a belief that it was most important to try everything. I have come to realize now- especially since my work fostering cats since Monkee's death- that trying everything! IS NOT the most important, or most correct thing to do. If I ever have another felv+ cat and I am faced with the same dilemma, my choice will be to forego chemo, continue prednisone (which will make the cat's day to day life more comfortable and can sometimes have an effect on tumors- stabilize them, maybe even shrink them a little), and keep him happy, COMPLETELY NON-STRESSED, and spend every freaking moment loving him. I would continue to take the cat to the vet to monitor the red blood cells, etc. But I would forego chemo, the blood transfusions that almost always come with chemo and/or severe anemia caused by felv and/or the chemo treatment itself, and in Monkee's case, his specialist wanted the leg tumor surgically removed when the chemo didn't shrink it and honestly, I think the surgery just really knocked the poor thing past the point of return. He was in so much pain for 2 days after- it was horrible. We will never know for sure if the severe anemia that eventually caused him to die in my arms late one night, was caused by the felv itself becoming active, or if the chemo and/or surgery was actually the final straw in really kicking in the anemia. Yes it's likely his felv was already full-blown by the time the tumor was discovered, but in my opinion,
Re: [Felvtalk] re chemotherapy? 2nd part
Couple of points I disagree with: When the vet suggests chemo for this cancer, you have to know that they are reccommending this as a life-prolonging treatment that will at best, prolong the cat's life by only a few months. This is not true in more cases than not, even with FeLV+ cats, I'm on a feline lymphoma list and there have been several FeLV+ cats with cancer on there. One that comes to mind in particular is Samba, he is FeLV+ and had chemo, yes it was hard on him but he has been in remission for over 4 years, he just recently in the last month or so came out of remission and this second time around the chemo is not working as well, he is in fact quite sick this time and they don't give him much of a chance (I'm still praying for a miracle and sending healing energy). BUT for the last 4 years he has been doing great and hasn't been on chemo for 3 1/2 of those. They did stop the chemo because he became septic after 6 months but without those 6 months of chemo which for the most part he handle fairly well, he would have died long ago. Yes, chemo is hard on the body, with or without FeLV but if you find a good oncologist or internal specialist who really knows what they are doing you you can have some miraculous results. Not every internal specialist or oncologist is created equal. I personally will do everything within my power to try and save my furkids when they are sick, sometimes it pays off sometimes it doesn't, but I will never have to wonder if only I had tried this would they still be here, that for me is something I can not live with. If I had human kids it would be the same way, I would do whatever I had to to make them well, just because initially they may not feel so good, if it means they may get cured, for me it is worth it. Once they are old enough to make their own decisions then they can do what they want with their lives. I feel this way because I have seen a miracle or two and I would never give up without trying everything. And if I am ever sick, I expect whoever is taking care of me to do the same, we all have free will ... if I don't want to go on, I can make that choice and then nothing anyone does will change the out come. My grandmother years ago died of a broken heart when she lost her daughter, nothing anybody said or did was going to change that, she just didn't want to live anymore, there was nothing physically wrong with her, she had just lost the will to live and died peacefully in her sleep 3 weeks after her daughter. Every person has their own belief system and they should do what is right for them according to what their beliefs are. I personally do believe there is more after we leave here, but I'm in no hurry to go ... it'll all still be there when I get there!! *PS. * It is true that most vets will tell someone that chemo won't help and only give the patient a few months, but I know many, many cats parents on the feline lymphoma list who were told just that, and their furkids are alive, in remission and well today, years later. *P.S.S. *Some of those cats that went into remission and died years later died of something other than cancer, heart disease, kidney disease, they never did get come out of remission. Just wanted to give another side to cancer and chemo ... -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] chemotherapy?
Caroline, I'm really sorry that Monkee had such a difficult time, I also believe we are all here for a given time and once it is our time to go, we go. It is my understanding anytime there is a tumor on a limb, the limb should be amputated, this in almost all cases along with chemo and sometimes even without chemo will get completely rid of the cancer if it hasn't already spread. Some people feel a cat will not do well with a limb gone but all the people I have talked to that have had this experience say their cats adjusted very well and very quickly. Me personally if it means any of my furkids having three legs or being dead, they will be tree-legged, as I would be given the same choice. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] chemotherapy?
Right and that wasn't an issue with me really. I had told my mom that I would practically do anything to have a machine that kept Monkee alive- a Monkee head on top of a machine! That is what I said-- I know, morbid, but we always joke in bad times. So, a 3 legged Monkee- well, both he and I would have been fine with that! The doc was worried that she would eventually have to take the leg if they didn't remove the tumor, but I don't think it would have ever come to that. He never would have made it that long for the tumor to compromise the leg. He was already so systemically compromised. We found what appeared to be lymph tumors in his belly shortly after the surgery. We did the blood transfusion, but doc said she wouldn't reccommend doing a 2nd in him b/c of the tumors developing in the belly/groin (and I couldn't bare another transfusion at that point- the psychological effect of the transfusion on both of us was too much). ck Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:39:01 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] chemotherapy? Caroline, I'm really sorry that Monkee had such a difficult time, I also believe we are all here for a given time and once it is our time to go, we go. It is my understanding anytime there is a tumor on a limb, the limb should be amputated, this in almost all cases along with chemo and sometimes even without chemo will get completely rid of the cancer if it hasn't already spread. Some people feel a cat will not do well with a limb gone but all the people I have talked to that have had this experience say their cats adjusted very well and very quickly. Me personally if it means any of my furkids having three legs or being dead, they will be tree-legged, as I would be given the same choice. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org _ Get thousands of games on your PC, your mobile phone, and the web with Windows®. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/108588800/direct/01/ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] chemotherapy?
If the cancer had already spread and the leg had been removed, the outcome may very well have been the same, there are just some kitties that chemo just doesn't seem to work for. My Mikie (FeLV+) way back in 1994 had kidney cancer, we did chemo and he responded instantly, I kid you not, he got elspar which is known as a rescue chemo and is one that doesn't destroy the white count. His tumor was pretty much gone in a day, my vet was shocked to say the least. He did well for 2 months and then the cancer came back, he didn't respond to the second round of chemo and in all honesty way back then I don't remember what protocol we were on. I know a lot more about cancer now then I wish I needed to know. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] chemotherapy?
Hi, I am sorry about Emma. As someone else mentioned the important thing is to find a good oncologist. It is possible that Emma does not have FeLV and that the test was a false positive. Does she have any symptoms of FeLV? My cat (FeLV negative) was diagnosed with Lymphoma about 5 years ago. She has had two round of chemo so far. The problem with the chemo is that causes diarrhea, vomiting and loss of appetite. I literally tried about 25 different brands of food to find something she'd eat, and many times I had to force feed her. Once we got through the chemo side-effects she is back to her old self and has gained weight. If you go through with the chemo and you find that the side-effects are too much, don't be afraid to ask the doctor to lessen the dosage. I did, and it made all the difference. There are some chemo drugs that are pills and can be administered at home. We used those as much as possible and my cat was able to avoid many vet visits. My cat takes prednisone and clavamox d aily and I imagine she always will. The clavamox is for the diarrhea. Good luck with Emma! Michele -- Original message -- From: Adrienne Statfeld [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello. My beloved Emma is 5 ½ years old. Two years ago she was diagnosed as being FeLV+. I dont know how this happened. I raised Emma and her sisters from the time they were about two days old. Her sisters are negative, as are my other cats, despite the fact that they have all lived together as indoor only cats, and have groomed each other, and shared bowls, litter boxes, and dishes. Emma tested negative for FeLV as a kitten. She has never been outside except in a carrier. Yesterday, I got the news that Emma has Lymphoma. Ive started her on Prednisone, and the doctor is recommending chemotherapy. The doctor estimated an 8 to 10 month survival rate for cats with Lymphoma who go through chemotherapy, but couldnt give me any idea of the prognosis for a cat who has FeLV. Any opinion about chemotherapy for an FeLV+ cat with Lymphoma? Im heartbroken and I dont want to do anything to prolong my beautiful girls suffering. Thank you. Adrienne ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
