[Flightgear-devel] Microsoft Shuts Down 'Flight Simulator' Game Studio
Wow. While this doesn't mean they are shutting down the software it does mean a historic milestone far beyond what most people realize. I attached the press release/story below but allow me to explain how momentous this is first becuase Having worked with so many of the guys at Microsoft when they first recognized the unique place Flight Simulator had in the PC market I find this noteworthy. Flight sim as a separate entity in microsoft started when Microsoft bought out Bruce Artwick's BAO studios for a reputed $20 million dollars. MS Flight Sim has always had a huge unknown influence in the world. At one point in the 90's a major research company did a survey of fortune 500 CEO's to find which software package was on the pc's of the most CEO's of fortune 500 companies expecting to find Lotus or Excel or Word etc. Instead they found MS Flight Simulator. Also, all of us around during the Intel pentium years remember that one of the main reasons people upgraded to pentiums and later Intel chip computers when they came out was to be able to run Flight Sim 5.1 and then the later increasingly graphically intensive versions of MS Flight Sim. MS Flight sim actually drove a huge portion of the Intel CPU and later graphics card hardware upgrade business and always has. (Business computers were often upgraded by IT guys so they could run the latest flight sim on $5000 PC hardware they couldn't afford at home although of course they claimed other reasons.) And the abilty to run ms flight sim was used THE definitive consumer test of whether an alternative cpu maker like AMD had successfully replicated Intel chips. The open addon market in flight sims was by no means guarenteed. I remember a key moment in the life of flight simulator when I did some intense lobbying in Redmond with the then head of the Microsoft flight sim marketing. Until then it had been up in the air which way Microsoft would legally go about hacked addons for ms flight sim with some speculation and magazine articles hinting Microsoft would get tough and shut down unapproved expansions. Many people programming on addons held their release back out of legal fear then. This constant threat was also actually one key reason I always gave publicity to any third party flight sims like x-plane. It's also why I initially proposed on Compuserv the idea of a flight sim developed along the new fangled unproven an open source lines of Linux which eventually became flightgear which I publicized the hell out of in industry magazines like Computer Pilot and PC Pilot that I established commercially. On a trip I suggested to the MS Flight Sim guy in Redmond that they market and think of Microsft Flight Simulator as an operating system for flight simulation supporting third party add ons instead of a closed proprietary software application intent on shutting down third party addons with legal threats. I chose my words operating system careful since I knew at Microsoft the idea of owning the operating system would be well received. Immediately after that personal visit to Redmond, Microsoft began to formally state in interviews etc that they supported third party addons and recognized that they helped flight sim. This insured that microsoft flight sim would become the flexible advanced flight sim it became. That also gave permanence to the flight sim addon market which became such a huge hotbed of advanced computer simulation and pilot training that it literally led the computer graphics industry for a decade and spawned a whole graphics card industry creating first S3 cards and then graphfx and later nvidia. This happened before RPG's became the huge market share leaders (and in my personal humble opinion back when pc gamers were smarter :-) and not just thumb pressers) Hell many of us initiated and put out better satellite phototerrain mapped ms flight sim addons running on pc's then than lockheed martin then had in their official F22 flight training simulator which costs millions at the time. I know. I saw them running side by side. (and Lockheed Martin never publicly showed that version of their expensive simulator again as far as I know.) Flight sim addons also promoted airlines and even defense contractor's bids for projects like the F22. Back when a legal squabble erupted over whether logos and fighter names like F-22 should be fair use in flight sims, I got on the phone to the PR person at Lockheed. I explained how hundreds of thousands of computer savy flight sim users who have for some reason ALWAYS been politcally active could either call their congressmen praising the advanced F-22 they had flown on their PC before a new defense appropriation was passed ensuring their actual construction or call them to complain about how an American contractor was attempting to usurp legal rights to government fighter plane names for government funded fighter projects. Quickly he saw the value in
[Flightgear-devel] Impressive nasa lunar lander winds up inaurgural parade
The last item in the inaugural parade was a working electric, 12 wheeled, six axled, electric lunar rover that including a full glass fronted sealed capsule with normally clothed pilots. The whole rover moved under its own power and demonstrated its ability to move in any direction and rotate its axles independently. In front of the presidental review stand an astronaut in a full space suit and pack got off on of the external chairs of the capsule and took the flag from the capsule and proceded to join the parade and march down the street with rover following behind. Looks like an exciting vehicle to model in flightgear. a href=http://truepot.biz/id/141_3_bid_20_em; Legally lower your electric meter by cutting out unwanted power spikes with this plugin device. Save up to 40%!/a www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily earth images. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily sun and earthquake images. -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Who wants to port FG to a Beagle?
Wow that is an amazingly 3d computer on a chip board for less than $150 ! Unbuntu and angstrom linux already ported. Hardware supported open GL 2.0 spec. Great 3d graphics and only 2 watts power consumption Usb, s video and hd tv 720 out. All standard usb peripherial support like bluetooth and keyboard s and mice and vr googles. The fully capable 3d gaming pc just got a LOT smaller and cheaper. (About 2in by 2inches and no fan or even heat sink needed! See youtube for videos of this beagleboard in acton. Unbeleivable. Love to see a youtube vidoe of this tiny board running flightgear On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 5:00 am, Holger Wirtz wrote: Hi all! on Linux Tag 2008 in Berlin/Germany I won a Beagle-Board from TI (see http://beagleboard.org/). This is a small embedded system but it is very powerful and seems to support OPENGL-embedded. Some small kind of disadvantage is that it has no onboard ethernet interface - but you can use one via usb. I thought it would be nice to try a port of FG to the beagleboard - but I just have no time for trying this. Is someone around who has some time and knowledge for this project? I will spend this board for someone who is interessted in this project. Please contact me by email. Regards, Holger -- +++NEUE ANSCHRIFT+++NEUE ANSCHRIFT+++NEUE ANSCHRIFT+++NEUE ANSCHRIFT+++ # ## ## Holger Wirtz Phone : (+49 30) 884299-40 ## ## ## ### ## DFN-Verein Fax : (+49 30) 884299-70 ## ## ## Alexanderplatz 1 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## ## ## ## ### 10178 Berlin # ## ## ## GERMANY WWW : http://www.dfn.de GPG-Fingerprint: ABFA 1F51 DD8D 503C 85DC 0C51 E961 79E2 6685 9BCF - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel a href=http://truepot.biz/id/141_3_bid_20_em; Legally lower your electric meter by cutting out unwanted power spikes with this plugin device. Save up to 40%!/a www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily earth images. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily sun and earthquake images. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgrun future
I strongly agree. The first page needs to be clear and simple and without flash and non html garbage. One simple impressive front page thing is an encapsulated youtube or other video that shows great video of flight gear in action. THAT makes people see what the flight sim is all about and it takes no more space than a single still photo and does NOT choke browsers. On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 9:42 pm, Curtis Olson wrote: On Jan 6, 2008 1:13 PM, Vivian Meazza [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm going to be a lone voice here Fred, I like it just the way it is :-) My view is we want to keep the main page really really simple. This is what new users are going to see for the first time and we don't want to blow them away with 500 different options. I think we need to fight the urge to put more stuff on the first page (if nothing else maybe take some stuff away) ... but make the options available on the advanced page ... or maybe make some subpages to organize the most used options for each particular category. Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ [http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/] www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] view options
Sounds very smart. I haven't gotten my giant flatscreen yet. :-) Rather than modifying my set files and possibly ruining someone else's setup ... maybe a field-of-view slider in the view options would be an idea ? Im poking around in view.xml now but might take a bit to figure it out :) Cheers -- SydSandy [EMAIL PROTECTED] - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Crash detection
LOL :-) Maybe flight gear should make coffee... Don't airliners all have galley coffee makers? Obviously it is as important to realism as a crash indicator which doesn't use physics to be triggered and ignores the in flight desires of its users who may not WANT entertainment water crashes or coffee. ;-) I have to say that no person will use flightgear for reenacting actual crashes because it doesn't model structures. ..seeing the sponsorship in action, I'd caution you, remember what happened when someone else said certain programs w|c|should nevah be used for e.g. cooking... http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Coffee.html ;o) judgement done purely for entertainment purposes and doesn't model real life and shouldn't be in any sim unless that sim is going to do complete structural analysis (not something I am suggesting for flightgear). ..why not!, except after a global sea water level rise model? Ikickgas.com www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] RE water crashes or landing - a change in design principle and default is suggested
The original post quoted below exemplifies why I beleive it is a mistake to ever have crash detection for water in a flight sim however let me lay it out simply. 1. Anyone who lands on water in a flight sim knows they are doing it. It is highly likely they WANT to do it - ie have a float plane or want to ditch. Setting a crash default is silly. It forces people to not be able to do what they want and it isn't realistic. 2. In reality all water is in fact landable even in a non float plane. It simply acts like extremely mushy ground. It should be treated like land and have a large drag component. In fact all ground should have a drag componenet so pavement, grass, snow, and muddy runways can be modeled - water should just have a very large drag component. This would more properly simulate takeoffs and landings on ground on water or snow or hard ground etc.. Water should be treated like land - period. Any crash detection should ONLY result from the speed of vertical decent during landing but frankly even that should be selectable because all planes have different undercarriage survivability (and again you will end up limiting people.) We should rememeber that water crashes were an error result caused by limited flight sims of the late 80's. Water Crashes in flight sims originated When BAO marketed by Microsoft added water crashes early on and it was an ENTERTAINMENT feature - it caused an exciting sound and forced a restart. IT WAS A BAD IDEA THEN AND HAS BEEN CARRIED FORWARD BY HABIT RATHER THAN REALISM ever since. It was a cheap stunt partially caused by limited contact feature routines (there was only one contact routine - crash!) in the EIGHTIES whether between buildings, other vehicles or water plus I suspect the desire of Microsoft (or BAO Bruce Artwick) to create excitement and a feature for amateur flyers. One should NEVER CRASH simply because one lands in water. One should be allowed to land in water anywhere. Anyone landing on water is chosing it. He either has a float plane or has decided he wants to put his cessna down ignoring all reality or simulating a ditching. The sim should on default allow it. One should ONLY crash when the rate of collision in the direction of contact (in landing that is vertical speed) exceeds any reasonable impact whether it be with a building, other aircraft, or in a landing. That should be modeled with seperate default factors for vertical side and frontal impacts - especially vertical- that an aircraft model file will carry modifiers for so different aircraft structures survivability can be slightly modeled without full structurally analysis. This way a jungle jumper or bush plane could have say a 3 in the vertical modifier key so the sim could calculate that the bush plane won't crash unless it's vertical touchdown (rate of descent in meters/sec) component is more than 3 times default. If you want to get even more accurate landing without structural analysis, crashes (unrecoverable landings) should be modeled by calculating the gross weight including remaining fuel times the vertical component at touchdown times the aircraft models factor modifier. Anything beyond that and you need to start introducing structural analysis in the sim which is a whole different ballgame. George On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 7:08 am, gerard robin wrote: On lun 24 décembre 2007, AnMaster wrote: Maik Justus wrote: Hi Gerard, gerard robin schrieb am 24.12.2007 01:14: BTW: i could not use the c172 because mine makes difference between water and solid Cheers Yes, all YASim aircrafts do. But while the default scenery looks like water it is marked as solid. Therfore you can land on water everywhere you have no scenery installed. That sounds strange, you would be unable to land with a float plane on sea tiles then? And when I started with A-6E once where I laked scenery, I was unable to take off, because the aircraft had crashed into the water. Regards, Arvid Norlander I am not sure that i have understood very well. My c172 is a JSBSim aircraft and it makes difference between water and solid. The seaplane can land and take off on that sea tile, when there is sea tile, the North Pole shows that there is NO tile, which explain that the Aircraft can't fly on it. Merry Christmas! -- Gérard http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/ - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Crash detection
I have to say that no person will use flightgear for reenacting actual crashes because it doesn't model structures. In crash recreation they don't ever model impact but only 1. Structural debris spread after impact or 2. flight system or weather conditions prior to impact or 3. structal failure leading to impact. Flight gear can only do the second of those and even for that the actual ground contact crash experience is irrelevant. Again really the whole crash scenario in flight sims was just a microsoft excitement feature and never ever should have been put into the minds of successive flight sim designers. It was an error in poor judgement done purely for entertainment purposes and doesn't model real life and shouldn't be in any sim unless that sim is going to do complete structural analysis (not something I am suggesting for flightgear). Most newbie flyers will want to fly with the crash detection off anyway, and experienced users will probably cause intentional crash situations for testing or experimentation purposes or for re-enacting actual crash situations (like crash investigation). - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] RE water crashes or landing - a change in design principle and default is suggested
Again just proving that sims can't do accurate landing crash detection without strutural analysis and therefore shouldn't fake it under any condition. No one benefits by the sim saying you crashed except a little kid who says to his friend hey watch this. That situation is best handled with a destruct button which can be triggered anytime. Now midair collison detection IS relevant because you want to know perhaps if you squeaked by the building or other aircraft but landing crash? Not unless you are going to do the math for the laods and the gear strentgh. On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 4:24 pm, R. van Steenbergen wrote: gerard robin schreef: With an aircraft which has gears retractable , the landing on sea can be done smoothly on the belly. TableData drag (and lift) can be given with the best values according to the water reaction. The values regarding landing on ground remains right. We have, only, to select the right TableData according to terrain type, which is easy to do. The possibility of belly landing an aircraft depends on the aircraft type -- an A/C with underwing mounted engines and a low wing is impossible to make a graceful belly-ditch (like the 737) since the engines would scoop up all the water and cause a huge amount of drag (and pitch the nose forward). IMO, the aircraft's fuselage, engines, and wings could also be considered contact points, albeit higher situated than an extended landing gear. For example, when you land a 737 or 747 over its recommended landing weight, you run the risk of either breaking the gear struts or causing enough gear compression to impact the engines on the runway. And of course, belly-landing an A/C on tarmac or grass is just as possible as ditching on water, but those methods could only be considered in an extreme emergency (like a jammed landing gear). Even MSFS can be fooled into doing it: I once bellied a Learjet 45 on the runway at Malaga in FS2004, only noticing that I made a fuselage landing when I tried to taxi off the runway and the aircraft didn't move (and I switched to external camera, realizing I forgot to lower the gear before landing. Next time: THREE GREENS! :)) - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] RE water crashes or landing - a change in design principle and default is suggested
All I say is the default for water for the sim regardless of aircraft without modifying anything should be allowed landing and even takeoff because if anyone is doing it in the sim they are doing it for a reason and have made a consious decision to defy reality. Therefore everything you are asking for is already there. The only question is, if the aircraft maintenancer is using all these features. www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] RE water crashes or landing - a change in design principle and default is suggested
You are really missing the point. What I am saying is no one interested in reality is going to land on water in the first place so the people who would expect a crash indication won't be doing the landing anyway. But those who want to land on water because they aren't concerned about reality find the water crash limiting to them and this will be a large protion of newbies. Furthermore your argument that landing on water isn't realistic doesn't mean it is THEREFORE realistic to model a crash without doing the full structural analysis to determine whether a crash would have in fact occured. Therefore you aren't realistic either way but if you let people land on water you actually let people explore more possibilities in the sim. And just to make the case - lets say you land on a grass penisula at a lake. You are doing 5 mph when you hit the edge of the lake. Still think a crash is in order? You do an emergency landing on abeach. The sim can't do detailed coastlines so suddenly you are deteced as hitting the water with say the barest tip of your side wheel . The sim triggers a crash . Again really not correct. Crash detection on water is always an unsupportable result in any but the msot extreme case in a flight sim and never provides any feedback that is more than entertainment. By not modeling a water crash as a default you let a lot more possibilites be explored in a sim - possibilites that will be enjoyed by many - no of whom will think they can actually land on water in real life. It was a mistake for BAo to provide the entertainment water crash function. It is now so firmly engrained it takes some real reflection to accurately consider the issue but that is exactly what I am suggest flight gear do. I'm sorry but this just seems silly to me. You cannot land on water if you are not in an aircraft with a planing hull or floats. A transitional planing phase, where the hull or floats change from being _on_ the water to being _in_ the water, or visa-versa for takeoffs, is necessary both for takeoff and landing. You can't plane on water with wheels, at least not at any sort of speed that could be attained with fixed gear or with retractable gear extended, even if the water was perfectly flat and undisturbed. Also, water doesn't act just like mushy ground. Ditching a land-plane into water does a lot more damage to the aircraft than belly landing it on any sort of ground. Even if you hit the water at a low vertical descent rate you won't plane on the surface because the fuselage will not have been designed and built for the stresses, unlike the planing hulls and floats on a seaplane/floatplane. The outer non-structural fuselage panelling will be quickly torn away leaving just the structural frames and members and once these are exposed the drag will shoot through the roof. This, in turn, results in a much higher decceleration rate than you would get in a ground belly-landing. Just the decceleration forces on their own would cause severe stress and structural damage to the airframe, quite apart from the impact damage, but in addition to this water is forced in to every opening and vent, at very high 'pressure', causing even more 'internal' damage to the aircraft and it's systems. I'm afraid that I can't agree with all that you say about ground drag components either. While it's certainly true that paved, grass, snowy, icy or muddy runways will have different co-efficients of friction, this only really applies to objects that are sliding across the surface - not rolling upon it. Sure, a grass strip will have a greater rolling-resistance than a paved strip but the power levels in anything but the earliest aircraft are more than sufficient to compensate for it. In any event, I know that YASim allows you to specify both the dynamic and static friction for wheeled landing gear, so it is possible to simulate low or high pressure tyres, which is what really dictates what sort of surfaces you can operate from and the corresponding ground characteristics are implicit in that. I'm not familiar with JSBSim but I expect it has similar capabilities. I just can't see how you describe the default crash result from landing in the water in a land plane as unrealistic. Once you've ditched in a land plane you're certainly not going to be flying it anywhere else because it will no longer function as an aircraft and that, to all intents and purposes, is a crash. LeeE www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list
[Flightgear-devel] an important growing trend now in software applications to make them portable in the sense that the complete installation resides in it's one directory.
There is an important growing trend now in software applications to make them portable in the sense that the complete installation resides in it's one directory. There is no writing to the registry and any ini stuff is kept in the same directory as the program. This enables the program to reside complelety on portable bootable disks which are now the rage and growing in importancw as a quick look at the latest linux and even portable windows installs to moile sd usb drives will show. I hope that flightgeatr will honor this model as well. Frankly the move microsoft encouraged from self contained installs with ini files in the same directroy to registry entrees was designed to keep windows and microsft control of the user. It made it difficult to move the installs to different copies of an operating s systems on another computer thus the user was forced to instead buy microsoft os upgrades. With the huge growing importance of having all your software including the operating system on a usb mem stick and have the usb be bootable on any computer I hope flightgear is following that path as well. Frankly there is no harm to having a flightgear install being complelety contained in one directory and there are many advantages such as portability, reproducability for freinds and easy simply zip the directory backups. - SF.Net email is sponsored by: Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/marketplace ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Modifying/Contributing with a wheeled vehicle simulator
Just to help you. X-plane simulates springs and tires and has an open interface. People have built cars for x-plane. The roads suck though. I think it would be great if fgear did this too. On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 5:39 pm, STenyaK (Bruno Gonzalez) wrote: I'm not familiar with the suspension geometry of planes, but i *guess* it can be modelled as a series of bodies, joints, springs and dampers, together with the tire model. Planes tires are pretty big, so they're an important part of the suspension process in landings too (and braking.. planes have brakes on their wheels too, not just reversing engines rotation + flaps, right?), not so much in take offs. You simply simulate a couple of bodies linked together through joints, and the springs and dampers must be present too (depends on the physics engine of choice, the spring rates and dampening values are part of the joints properties, or a separate entity). As for the tires, that's probably the biggest issue i'll have to deal with in my simulator, but i think a simple approximation will be enough for plane landings. I was hoping fligh gear simulated all those entity types i've mentioned, since that's what i could reuse for the physics of Motorsport. However, if it does not, then both projects are in need of using a third party physics engine that does it, such as ODE, Bullet, Physsim, etc. (unless you want to code it yourself, but i'm not a physicsist nor a mathematician, and i don't have enough spare time to learn enough, so i try to reuse physics code as much as possible. which is one of the reasons i'm looking into using FG). On 12/1/07, Jon S. Berndt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I'm the main developer of Motorsport ( www.motorsport-sim.org ), a wheeled vehicles simulator (aimed at racing cars, but not necessarily exclusively focused on that). I'm rewriting the sim from scratch, and while i'm at it, i'm reconsidering my choices of third party libraries to use. I've been told that FlighGear people were interested in including a car simulation on it too, so that's why i'm seding this email :-) I am particularly interested in how you model suspension/ground reactions. Jon Jon S. Berndt Development Coordinator JSBSim Project www.JSBSim.org - SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White Paper from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, Linux is going mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future. http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Saludos, Bruno González ___ Msn/Jabber: stenyak AT gmail.com ICQ: 153709484 http://www.stenyak.com - SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White Paper from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, Linux is going mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future. http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images. - SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White Paper from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, Linux is going mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future. http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Modifying/Contributing with a wheeled vehicle simulator
It was fine when I checked. Had screenshots of the sim. Looked pretty good! On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 6:28 pm, STenyaK (Bruno Gonzalez) wrote: On 12/1/07, Arnt Karlsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ..check your site, Bruno. On your Wiki page, I get refs to Britney sex, old man sex, free mature, cheerleaders nude etc, I'm the one using Links right now browsing your site. I know, but thanks anyway. With the remake of Motorsport, I'm also migrating the whole website to a set of web software that's less of a pain in the a. to maintain :) The wiki is temporarilly migrated to the Topics section of motorsport.stenyak.com/tracker. -- Saludos, Bruno González ___ Msn/Jabber: stenyak AT gmail.com ICQ: 153709484 http://www.stenyak.com - SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White Paper from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, Linux is going mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future. http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images. - SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White Paper from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, Linux is going mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future. http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Modifying/Contributing with a wheeled vehicle simulator
Sounds like fg is ready to be a road sim then! On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 9:18 pm, Jon S. Berndt wrote: I think it's worth pointing out that in FlightGear cvs we have models of a jeep and of a snowplow (truck). The dynamics are based on YAsim and the wheel/suspension modeling seems to work really well. I was actually very impressed at the sorts of things that YAsim does ... Andy cooked a little bit of physics magic in there some how! Things I notice when playing around with the snowplow: - The suspension at each tire is modeled independently. - The suspension reacts to surface properties ... like smooth pavement, rougher grass, etc. - If you drive into a lake or ocean you sink. - If you drive off a bridge you dive end over end pretty realistically. - When you corner, the individual suspension elements seem to react correctly. The front outside tire seems to dig in as you turn sharper and sharper. - As you corner more and more sharply, you need more power to maintain the same speed. - If you turn too sharply, you can actually roll the vehicle ... and visually, it looks very realistic. - The vehicle reacts to wind. - There is great interaction between the larger vehicle/body dynamics, the individual suspension components, and the surface. The vehicle reacts correctly to slopes and change in terrain. I caught Sounds like a good topic for a technical paper. The next AIAA Modeling and Sim conference is in Honolulu. J Jon www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images. - SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White Paper from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, Linux is going mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future. http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Microsoft ESP
I see nothing in the microsoft esp announcement about patents. It is simply Microsoft saying we have a 3d world already done(from microsoft flight simulator) and if you want to write a simulation that uses it then we will license it to you It seems microsoft is really emphasizing the amount of world content they have such as detailed reconstructions of cities and buildings around the world as well as physics engine and connectivity to mass market input output devices. Both flight gear and x-plane and other 3d world systems offer the ability to tie in to external use of their 3d world displays for other purposes in the same way. There seems to be no specific patent claims mentioned anywhere in the announcement specific to the esp. Many companies have software patents - this specific announcement doesn't seem to increase or decrease the problem when writing software. On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 7:03 am, Stuart Buchanan wrote: LeeE wrote: On Wednesday 28 November 2007 12:40, Jon S. Berndt wrote: This is very interesting: http://www.microsoft.com/esp/ http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2216455,00.asp Jon This _is_ interesting. FlightGear (and SimGear), as it (they) are, should be ok re patents because it (they) pre-date(s) MS-ESP. We might have to be careful about major re-designs or major new features though. snip The troubling thing about MS-ESP is that it encroaches on our 'turf', it will be proprietary in format and it will be tied to the MS platforms and licencing. Hopefully though, it will be irrelevant to FG. I think it is interesting, but I doubt there is anything for us to worry about. In fact we might feel flattered that MS have followed our lead in opening up the environment to external I/O ;) My take on this is that ESP is simply MS opening up the FS-X environment to new markets that want the graphical environment, but don't like their FDM (which isn't particularly surprising - from what I've heard the FDM isn't much to write home about). Given this, we don't need to worry any more about MS patents than we did before the announcement, i.e. hardly at all. All the I/O stuff they've announced is already present in FG. I think their target market is very much the big boys - this is only available under volume-licensing, so no-one is going to be buying this just to have a play around with it. I guess what is much more likely is that some simulator manufacturers will be looking at this for their eye-candy rather than developing it in-house. Academia is another market, but that is one in which FG should be able to offer a much better solution. In fact, this might be quite an opportunity for FG - there is the chance to market ourselves as an open alternative to MS-ESP. -Stuart ___ Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it now. http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/ - SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White Paper from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, Linux is going mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future. http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images. - SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White Paper from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, Linux is going mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future. http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Did anyone ever do a simple psuedo code roadmap of the major flightgear program sections and an index to the modules they are compiled from?
Did anyone ever do a simple psuedo code roadmap of the major flightgear program sections and an index to the modules they are compiled from? If so where can I download it or would someone post it to this list as a text message? Thanks geopilot www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Chaos in FG development [was: Bomb patch for vulcanb2]
Well defining ranges of reserved attachable variables and hooks would help to keep things backward compatable. Define chunks of variables in chunks of 50 (allways define more than you think you need for the future.) To much MANAGEMENT though will slow down contributions. On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 10:00 am, leee wrote: On Friday 13 July 2007 21:39, Melchior FRANZ wrote: [snip...] Coders are all the time adding new code, which can sometimes be chaotic. On the other hand, coders are also fixing chaotic code. All the time. Yes, there is some, but as long as you aren't actually working on the code, it shouldn't really concern you much. Are you aware of people who were scared away by the chaos, and decided not to contribute because of it? Which files or subsystems do you find most chaotic? I'm sure we can work on those. m. I think this is a very important observation by Melchior, although he and I might disagree on both the degree and effects of the 'chaos' in FG :) The earliest FG mailing list posts I have archived date from late 2002 so I reckon that is when I started contributing to FG and since then there has been a huge amount of development in FG, all to it's benefit and leading to a much more capable and effective package. However, as well as the software developers who are developing the FG platform/framework itself there are those who use and develop _for_ the FG platform, for example aircraft developers who make aircraft for FG and development research projects that use FG as their environmental framework. For this group of people/users I would say that the FG platform has become much more chaotic and difficult to use or to develop for unless they 'freeze' a local version and don't try to keep track of FG development after the freeze. Doing this though, will make their work incompatible with future versions of FG, which cannot be a good thing. It is difficult to see a good answer to this issue. On the one hand, planning ahead and setting specific objectives for the FG developers to work towards would give known objectives and a clear development path but at the same time would constrain developers to working on what the plan requires, which may not be what the individuals concerned are interested in. On the other hand, if FG development carries on as it is now, with developers able to follow any line of development they find interesting there will be many new valuable developments but it will continue to be unpredictable and chaotic. Perhaps FG has reached the point where it positively needs some sort of oversight management and planning, as seems to happen with many, if not most, large-scale Open-source projects e.g. Apache, Wine etc. I personally hate to be even a little bit critical of FG and it's community of developers because FG is a tremendous achievement by a lot of very skilled and talented individuals but it's because I do care about FG that I feel obliged to comment when I believe I see something that could harm the project. LeeE - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Bomb patch for vulcanb2
Flight gear was originally proposed by myself and others to be a sim that wnet where people wrote code for it. If there are people who want to write code for combat then it should be included. The same is true for ships and cars. I would love it if flightgear also became a good driving simulator and sailing simulator. Then it will be simgear. On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:21 am, leee wrote: Yes, it absolutely be part of flight simulation software. The main reason I made the Canberra B(I)8 was so that I had an appropriate aircraft to investigate LABS/toss-bombing scenarios and techniques. This wasn't because I wanted to pretend to vapourise lots of people but because the aerial manuevers are interesting in their own right. Saying that FG should be a 'civil' only flight sim is saying that certain aerial manuevers must not be performed using it. Should I not have done an SU-37 to show that the YASim FDM is capable of performing many of the manuevers that the real aircraft is capable of, just because it is a military aircraft, and should we not be allowed to investigate these technologies and developments in FG? I think that trying to insist on a civil only FG seems too much like an ineffective and misplaced form of censorship that will change nothing in the real world, and that is really where the problem is. LeeE On Friday 13 July 2007 07:14, Torsten Dreyer wrote: Hi, should this really be part of a flight simulation software? If yes, what will be the next step? - Should the demolition of buildings be modeled? - What about humans in the scenery? - Any sound for this? My personal vote is please do not commit. I do not like it! Greetings, Torsten Am Donnerstag, 12. Juli 2007 21:47 schrieb Stuart Buchanan: Hi All, I have a patch for the vulcanb2 that causes the 1,000lb bombs to leave craters on impact with the ground. Available from http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/vulcanb2.tar.gz The crater.[ac|rgb] files should go into the Aircraft/vulcanb2/Models directory. Could someone please commit. Thanks -Stuart ___ The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Bomb patch for vulcanb2
Personally I would love to see online free dogfighting with guns or lasertag. Its great fun and a great test of your ability as a pilot. It is also the best way to really understand about momentum and drag and lift and thrust and forces of turning etc. Remember guys even if modeled realistically it is a sim so it is still lasertag. On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:47 am, Heiko Schulz wrote: Hi, That's right, it's an OpenSource-Project, everyone can implement what he wants. But we don't have to forget that the aim is to have a civil simulation. I'm not against to see military aircrafts here in the sim, but where is the limit? Showing only bombs? The resultats? Or dogfighting? At least it is a free project, so I'm free to say my opinion. Greetings HHS --- Detlef Faber [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Am Freitag, den 13.07.2007, 10:27 +0200 schrieb Heiko Schulz: Hi, I agree with Torsten - FGFS is a civil simulator - not a war simulator. first of all FG is an open source simulator, so the author of an airplane, or contributor of code can implement any (legal) feature he wishes. Greetings Detlef --- Torsten Dreyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Hi, should this really be part of a flight simulation software? If yes, what will be the next step? - Should the demolition of buildings be modeled? - What about humans in the scenery? - Any sound for this? My personal vote is please do not commit. I do not like it! Greetings, Torsten Am Donnerstag, 12. Juli 2007 21:47 schrieb Stuart Buchanan: Hi All, I have a patch for the vulcanb2 that causes the 1,000lb bombs to leave craters on impact with the ground. Available from http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/vulcanb2.tar.gz The crater.[ac|rgb] files should go into the Aircraft/vulcanb2/Models directory. Could someone please commit. Thanks -Stuart ___ The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Bomb patch for vulcanb2
For people not interested in combat they could just declare themselves invulnerable and turn off visibilty of combat vehicles operating in their area. Meanwhile combat vehicles could contnue to straff them invisbly as human piloted drones. You just need a turn off vehicles indentying themselves as combat switch. Then everyone could still operate through the same servers in the same airspace. Persistance would be guided by whether the obejct was comabt or non combat. For objects that are visible in both arenas such as buildings, there would be two states. Those wsimming wiith the combat switch turned on would have their software render the combat state (ok,burning, flattened etc) and those with it turned off would render the noncombat state of the building. Pretty simple reallly. Basically any object signing on to the server would have a tag indentifying itself as combat or non combat participating. On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 1:16 pm, AnMaster wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Heiko Schulz wrote: Hi, O.k. - but then I think (suggestion) it should be seperated into branches of combat, sailing, driving, etc... I don't think that would be a too good idea, after all it would be quite fun if they all could share one place. Towtrucks (driving) towing airliners (flying) over MP, for example. So in that case separating them would make little sense. In that case we could have aircraft drops bombs on submarines. ;) /AnMaster -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGl9XdWmK6ng/aMNkRCmHFAJ0ZHTQgU7wr6/i48ONlfJ10dyUUOQCguFrD R4WAwg4tY1JAp9zBs8isr2A= =LHcX -END PGP SIGNATURE- - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Bomb patch for vulcanb2
This whole idea could be leveraged to a time state as well. This would allow people who want to do period of time simming to share the same servers. You could declare your period of time of exitence and your software would render only other objects identifing themselves in a similiar window of time you specify (say ealry 1900's or 2007 our 2050) This would be a great extension. Buildings and other objects would have a stated period of creation date and then standard aging routines could put say more and more deterioration over the textures as they were rendered in a time period further from the buildings creations date or no building at all if before the creation date. The simmer could define their onw window of time as wide as they desire. People they see but who define themselves outside that same window could show up renders as say a clear outline. For people not interested in combat they could just declare themselves invulnerable and turn off visibilty of combat vehicles operating in their area. Meanwhile combat vehicles could contnue to straff them invisbly as human piloted drones. You just need a turn off vehicles indentying themselves as combat switch. Then everyone could still operate through the same servers in the same airspace. Persistance would be guided by whether the obejct was comabt or non combat. For objects that are visible in both arenas such as buildings, there would be two states. Those wsimming wiith the combat switch turned on would have their software render the combat state (ok,burning, flattened etc) and those with it turned off would render the noncombat state of the building. Pretty simple reallly. Basically any object signing on to the server would have a tag indentifying itself as combat or non combat participating. On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 1:16 pm, AnMaster wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Heiko Schulz wrote: Hi, O.k. - but then I think (suggestion) it should be seperated into branches of combat, sailing, driving, etc... I don't think that would be a too good idea, after all it would be quite fun if they all could share one place. Towtrucks (driving) towing airliners (flying) over MP, for example. So in that case separating them would make little sense. In that case we could have aircraft drops bombs on submarines. ;) /AnMaster -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGl9XdWmK6ng/aMNkRCmHFAJ0ZHTQgU7wr6/i48ONlfJ10dyUUOQCguFrD R4WAwg4tY1JAp9zBs8isr2A= =LHcX -END PGP SIGNATURE- - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Where are older builds of flightgear for older systems archived?
Where are older builds of flightgear for older systems archived? www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Help with interfacing other flight models
A great upper hierachy pseudocode document would be very usefull as well. Year ago I outlined one when we were firsr conceiving of the idea for flight gear. (Under my old compuserv address curtis) I haven't been invovled in the programming much since then and would love a guidepost document describing the basic data loops, rendering loops, and calculation loops in a nested structure. On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 11:37 am, Chris Scruggs wrote: I work with a company that is interested in developing methods for interfacing one of our products with FlightGear. We produce and sell a high-fidelity Aerospace Toolkit for the LabVIEW development environmnet. The Toolkit helps engineers develop simulations of spacecraft flight for model-based design work. If it helps in answering the questions product information may be found here (http://www.atacolorado.com/aerospace_toolkit.htm). We wish to offer users the ability to interface the simulations they develop with FlightGear to enhance their visualization options. I have searched through the documentaion and read through some of the source code. However, I am curious if there is a document describing the overall architecture of FlightGear that is readily available. Regards, Chris Scruggs www.atacolorado.com Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Model Aircraft projects
Any luck on a flightsim or xplane converter? Even the old planes for flightsim would be a great way to get a lot of free aircraft. And that plane format is pretty well known. On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 6:19 am, gh.robin wrote: On Sun 17 June 2007 14:28, Detlef Faber wrote: Hello Gerard, Hello Detlef SNIP But i can do it and never submit it to CVS, waiting for your model, which i guess will be your usual high quality model (you proved it before). Don't get me wrong, your work is far ahead of mine, the model isn't complete nor textured or animated. It is no big thing for me to stop working on it and wait for your P-38. I won't run out of projects ;-) While we're at it, here is a peek at my workbench: Grumman Albatros Focke Wulf FW-190 A8 North American F86-F Sabre Messerschmitt Me 323 Gigant Martin B-26 Marauder Greetings Detlef All right Detlef, i hope you will not be disappointed with my work. Because , i know, the most important work is to collect and gather the documentation, and, you have done it. But my proposal remains, i can hold mine :) Regarding your project i feel glad , about that coming B-26 , it makes me younger , very younger , when i was making flying scaled models , i remember i spent a lot of time to make it, and to fly it on circular fly , (no rc command, at that time, but very expensive with radio tube) only two iron wires with an handle. Regards -- Gérard - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Flightgear visualization as streaming video
Are all of these streaming programs just linux or also windows? On Wed, 23 May 2007 11:38 am, Jon Stockill wrote: Antonio Almeida wrote: Thanks, I'll check out the latest CVS version as soon as I get around to implementing. Your experience is very similar to what I was looking for! If it is as fast as you mention then it will surely be enough to simulate a streaming video, from the viewer's perspective. I believe jpg-httpd will be enough for my purposes, however a standard streaming video would still be nicer. If FlightGear is able to generate those jpgs, then it may be possible to encode them to a video in real-time, using third party tools, and stream it. Perhaps I could contribute with such a feature (not in the near future, I'm afraid). FFMPEG may be useful in converting and streaming the jpegs. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ATISs upgrade
Leave it in! On Sat, 3 Mar 2007 7:07 pm, John Denker wrote: On 03/03/2007 05:18 PM, Durk Talsma wrote: Also note that many cout statements still in the code are commented out, for potential use in future development / debugging. That's exactly what we're talking about today : couts that output *nothing* unless a developer steps in to request something. Personally, I don't object against commented-out cout / cerr statements in the code if the author wants to retain them for ongoing development. Agreed! There are thousands of such couts in the code already, and they serve a useful purpose. As I said earlier, there is a theory going around that open code should be really, really open, in a broad /practical/ sense, not just in some narrow legal sense. This also falls under the heading of DfT (design for test). Having gone to the trouble of creating a test harness, why not leave it in there for other folks to use? I don't think it would make much sense to have each person who wants to test the code re-invent and re-implement the test harness. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [Flightgear-users] Someone selling flightgear stuff, or a rip off of FG's good name?
Are the cockpits unique? If so are they required to provide free source to them as part of the gpl? I forget the rules. On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 1:07 pm, Robert Black wrote: Looking at the screenshots it looks like one of us put it together and they read the email lists or did they get this off the website? And the open source statement is not very prominent if at all. quoted *You may have seen it used recently on prime time TV and not even realized it. It was used in an episode of Fox TV's legal drama Justice to prove pilot error in the fatal crash of a private plane.* John Clary wrote: I saw this place advertised on the top bar of my G-mail messages: http://www.apexsoftwarecenter.com/ I don't know if they are selling turn-key FG packages or just ripping off the FG name, but I thought I should bring it to the attention of the appropriate parties. www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The infamous invisible wall of weather
POV ray (an open source ray tracer) uses an algorythm called procedural textures to defines swirls in 3 d objects such as a slice across a piece of knotted wood or marble at any point within the object to sett the color of that pixel. Flightgear could use a similiar procedural textures with the only difference being it would change over time and it would instead define the wind direction in the atmossphere at that point in space or underwater current. It could do the same for underwater currents. Perhaps the ideal solution for realism is an general world mapping of currents etc with the local details being handled by such a procedural algorithm in motion. Although procedural textures are computationally intensive although simple. On Thu, 1 Feb 2007 11:37 am, John wrote: I know this is going to get me in trouble. Perhaps we have it backwards... The environment is a not an active computing element, it merely exists and does not care about the objects in it. It effects the objects but has no knowledge of the objects. rather the objects sense the environment and its state based on their location in the environment. (We can argue that the objects in turn change the enviroment, but that is akin to computing the center of mass of the sun/earth system.) Sooo.. Seems we should treat the weather data as a set of points equally spaced and distributed that contain the relevant information and define a 3D field. Any object flying through the field could then based on its location select two or more data points and using whatever algorithm desired compute a local condition. The field could be static, homogeneous, cyclical, monotonic, whatever. The object would only care about its location in the field, not how the field is created, updated, or rates of change. A seperate application/thread would then be responsible for creating and updating the field in whatever fashion deemed appropriate. The field could be organized as a set of volumes and managed in a manner similar to the scenery tiles. Volumes would contain associated METAR stations or whatever for computing data points which would then be merged with the existing field. Regards John W. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier. Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier. Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Gold mine of helicopter airfoil data
Look for the naca files on the internet to find them all in a better format. I think they actually have them in database or spreadsheet form somewhere unless they have gotten rid of it. On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 12:24 pm, Joacim Persson wrote: On Wed, 3 Jan 2007, Heiko Schulz wrote: Hi, Real nice. But from 1976 - newer one would be good too! If there is a volume 2 somewhere... Leo Dadone is a Boeing guy btw, so I suspect the 40-some listed airfoils should at least cover the Boeing rotorcrafts up to 1977. Many of the airfoils listed are regular NACA airfoils that probably are documented elsewhere too. Nice to have them in one file though, even if it is a bit big. Now excuse me, I have to drool over the VR-7 and VR-8 data for a while. =) - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] What is the basic prgram loop structure of flightgear
It would be helpful if someone familiar with overall detailed structure of flightgear could give the basic program loop structure of flightgear at this point. ( I mean after initialization has been completed and program is in running sim mode) Once in running sim mode, what are the basic real time loops and what are the basic time triggered loops etc. Ie Read inputs, draw sky, compute flight position, read external link internet inputs, check timers for various processes to see if program diversion is needed, check for collision, etc etc They seemed to be refered to by name sometimes here so using the names would be helpful. Ie instrument timer names etc It would greatly help in determining the best why to add new features without having to completely dissect the whole code which might take a year for a new comer without full spare time. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Addressing the discontinuity that occurs when using discrete terrain altitude data during landing...
Your altitude must be computed as the average of the surrounding squares or the position on the sloping line between two points if you really want it to match the graphics. On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 8:56 am, Antonio Almeida wrote: Hi! I've been working on a prototype flight simulator and I'm running into an issue I have no idea how to solve, so I decided to ask here since this very same problem might have been addressed in FlightGear. I want to model the landing of my aircraft. My problem lies in the altitude data. The data I have to use is a pixel map, which means that one square (which has around 100 meters side) has a certain value of altitude and the adjacent square has a completely different value... This means that if I try to land the aircraft in the border between two squares... it will either fall down or crash against this virtual discontinuity! I'm betting there's an obvious solution to this, but I'm out of ideas!... Any suggestions? Thanks! Antonio DISCLAIMER: This message may contain confidential information or privileged material and is intended only for the individual(s) named. If you are not a named addressee and mistakenly received this message you should not copy or otherwise disseminate it: please delete this e-mail from your system and notify the sender immediately. E-mail transmissions are not guaranteed to be secure or without errors as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete or contain viruses. Therefore, the sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message that arise as a result of e-mail transmissions. Please request a hard copy version if verification is required. Critical Software, SA. www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] GPL Violation?
Chris is right. It can only be good if images of flightgear sold any which way cause people to want the product itself. Personally, since gpl allows even the sale of the software itself, I find it hard to believe a case can be made that images of the software in action can't be sold. Also people involved with flightgear have to realize the originally reason many of us proposed the linux type cooperative flightsim project that became flightgear was to provide some good alternatives to more restrictive software that existed at the time. Specifically people were worried then whether commercial owners of those products like microsoft would suddenly disallow addons etc. Therefore it would be ridiculous for flightgear suddenly to start being litigeous about people making derivative use of flightgear! On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 3:31 pm, Didier Fabert wrote: Le samedi 18 novembre 2006 00:01, Curtis Olson a écrit : That's all well and good, except I think we want our screenshots to be redistributable and used and shared as much as possible. This is an open and free project. I really want to avoid going down the path of having to decide who can and can't use our screenshots and - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Some new AI screenshots
You can get the liverisies flight schedules per gate from the FAA website. On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 8:48 am, Darko Tasovac wrote: Thanx Durk. I asked that question because I want to contribute with some traffic patterns. Most flights are very hard or impossible to track, so I collect data flights from the airports website. Then I schedule them manually on fleet size number (planning to write C++ source for automatic random schedule, knowing the destination, airiliner, and fleet size) . Durk Talsma wrote: Hi Darko, Well, I can only speak for myself, but I would say that my goal is to achieve ever increasing realism through constant refinement. I'd like to have something that feels realistic, in the sense that the right amount of traffic, and with approximately the right liveries, is present at each airport. This could mean that we go through a phase where everything is driven by random traffic. but I'd like to keep the option open to have realistic schedules. I certainly don't have the entire flight schedule of each airline in memory, but there are a limited nr of flights for which I know the departure time (i.e. those, I've travelled with as a passenger in real-life). It's pretty cool to see those behave in FlightGear (or FS2004 for that matter) as they would in reality. FWIW, keeping traffic 100% realistic is most likely going to be a logistic nightmare, but if we can get something that approximates it then that would be great. Also note that the AI system shouldn't be limited to airline traffic, but should also include general aviation, and military traffic. I started with airline stuff, because that's the most visible type of traffic in my home area, and also the type of traffic I have a test database for. If you look at the ground network / schedule documentation, and the C++ source code, you might find hooks for other traffic types as well. I just haven't had the chance to work on that though... Cheers, Durk - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily updated facts about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake data. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] UAV Heli and Matlab
Unless you get REALLY small the accuracy should be the same as full scale. But close to the ground the ground effect makes a big difference. It happens when aplane flies at an altitude less than half its wingspan. Basically the air underneath can't get out and creates tremendous additional lift. On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 6:59 am, Correu PelDavid wrote: The discussion seems to be getting hot.. Regarding the heli model: Could it represent an R/C helicopter model fine enough to synthonize an autopilot to be ported afterwards to real (R/C UAV) life? Would it work for slow velocities and near to ground flights? Would it work for higher (not much) altitude and agressive manoeuvres? Thanks, David 2006/6/14, Melchior FRANZ [EMAIL PROTECTED]: * Georg Vollnhals -- Wednesday 14 June 2006 11:57: Melchior FRANZ schrieb: * Georg Vollnhals -- Wednesday 14 June 2006 03:02: Take the BO105 and goo for a straight and level flight with 100-120 knts. Then push the collective down. [...] ^^^ That's translational lift. No. Translational list is an additional lift component related to helicopter speed against the air and will start at about 12 to 20 knts Pardon? You spoke about 100-120 knots. I said it's translational lift. You disgree because translational lift starts with 12 to 20 knots?!? Doesn't make the least sense. m. ___ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] vatsim
Why not just duplicate vatsim with independent GPL programming? On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 5:52 pm, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:39:40 -0500, Curtis wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Martin Spott wrote: Ok, in theory having a closed source interface _might_ serve the licensing issues, _but_: - Who likes to have to use a closed source module in order to connect their OpenSource flight simulation to VATSIM ? Does the bridge module between flightgear and vatsim need to be closed source? Or just non-GPL? My assumption is that all the closed source vatsim magic happens in a proprietary library? ..this is the story we are being told, AFAIUI. We would link our application to this library. Am I wrong on this? Our application may not then be licensable under the gpl, but we could still make our portion of the code open and available. ..only one problem: Would any of us need to sign their NDA and risk litigation? They may be nice now, but bad guys can easily grind them flat in court, to get at us. At Groklaw, we have seen at least 2 Canopy people die in suspect suicidings, I'm guessing because they learned something important. Just how powerful the GPL and copyright law is, is best shown in how the GPL moots such suicide schemes for people like us, Samba.org, Red Hat, IBM, who all hides under the GPL. - More important, who of the OpenSource developers likes to maintain a closed source module, compile it at least for half a dozend different platforms and play the lonesome cowboy to whom bug reports will be adressed - without having any chance to share the load with someone else ? ..maybe Vatsim staff? If they hire somebody to write it under the GPL, they will own it too, and get street credibility here, talk is cheap, but action talks loud. Either way. Hmmm, this is dependent on the answer to your first point. Does the vatsim app have to be closed source, or is the vatsim app that we/someone creates simply an app that has to link to a non-gpl, proprietary library? ..neither. Let's go dance the good old proven Samba way. - Most important, who of the OpenSource developers likes to take the risk of getting sued for license infringement because VATSIM might claim he could have transferred source code from the closed source interface to FlightGear ? Well I think it's clear that the vatsim folks are more than happy to ..sure. Let's make it beneficial for both parties. work with us if we are willing to meet them on their terms. ..these are negotiable. Let's see if we can talk them into GPL it all, both Red Hat and IBM makes good money on their GPL business. ..I see _no_ reason why Vatsim, the X-plane guys etc should'nt be able to do likewise. If we develop a friendly cooperative relationship with them instead of an adversarial relationship, and if we follow their procedures and guidelines, why would there be a risk of being sued? ..in the ideal world, there isn't. IRL, there is, and the easiest way to get at us (FG), is thru allegations of IP infringement, and the best way is thru people like Vatsim, who are _much_ easier to screw by litigation or by buying their debts and hike their loan etc expenses up really high, etc, if they don't wanna play ballmer games. ..you basically needs to be Microsoft, the SCO Group or North Korea to not be able to profit from the GPL. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel Bush's family and their Saudi partners make higher profits by preventing Saddam's huge Iraqi oil reserves from ever being sold. They'll Enron the world - George Watson 2001 For Hurricanes www.globalboiling.com For solar wind and earthquakes www.electricquakes.com Typos caused by two inch mobile phone keyboard ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] GPL licensing question.
Have to check the gpl. Most address the issue of expansion of the code. On Tue, 6 Jun 2006 2:02 pm, Curtis L. Olson wrote: Here's a question for all you amateur lawyers and GPL experts out there. Let's say that someone wants to create a proprietary aircraft within the FlightGear system, and then distribute a larger system that includes FlightGear + that aircraft. In my view, the FlightGear GPL license covers our source code, but not content created with or used by that code (except for things like the base package which is explicitely licensed as GPL.) Is it possible that someone could lay claim to any newly created proprietary content (3d models, artwork, panels, etc.) by way of the GPL? Even if FlightGear is happy to allow people to create proprietary aircraft, could someone upstream in plib or zlib or openal land somehow file a complaint? To me this is analogous to Microsoft demanding all documents created and owned by a company just because they created and edited them with Microsoft Word. I just don't see that ever happening. But I wonder what others think about this issue from a legal point of view. Thanks, Curt. -- Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt HumanFIRST Program http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ FlightGear Project http://www.flightgear.org Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel Bush's family and their Saudi partners make higher profits by preventing Saddam's huge Iraqi oil reserves from ever being sold. They'll Enron the world - George Watson 2001 For Hurricanes www.globalboiling.com For solar wind and earthquakes www.electricquakes.com Typos caused by two inch mobile phone keyboard ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Google earth mapping for fgfs scenery
Heh, there's an idea :-) If it was getting live updates from the web would that count as a web application?what about running on a webserver on your own machines in java? On Sun, 4 Jun 2006 10:38 am, Josh Babcock wrote: Pigeon wrote: Currently they do not allow any non-web application use the google map data/images. Not sure about google earth but i imagine similar terms So what you are saying is that we need to re-implement fg in javascript? Josh ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel Bush's family and their Saudi partners make higher profits by preventing Saddam's huge Iraqi oil reserves from ever being sold. They'll Enron the world - George Watson 2001 For Hurricanes www.globalboiling.com For solar wind and earthquakes www.electricquakes.com Typos caused by two inch mobile phone keyboard ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sailing Ships (was Re: Tides in FlightGear?)
For craft at sea level over non land turbulence equations could be modified to create rythmic up down motion as well as currents from a direction. If the frequency of the verticla turbulence shift is equal to the speed of the ship times 3 to 20 feet it should provide reasonable wave dip. On Sat, 3 Jun 2006 7:57 am, Jeff Koppe wrote: As a long time Virtual Sailor user/idea contributor this thread caught my attention (well... once it said Sailing Ships... in the subject). In fact I've been toying with the idea of attempting to make my own cross-platform sailing simulator for several years. I had thought about using FG as a starting point but more recently I decided Delta3d would suit my needs better. But then again I'm primarily a Perl programmer and it's all vaporware at this point! If there is any movement in this direction I'd be more than happy to help. I'd gladly convert any of my Virtual Sailor boats for use and probably build anything needed. (See www.static-lift.net for examples.) But I do think that wave action upon a boat is THE key to a sailing/boating/ship simulator. Let's face it, regardless of the motive power of the vessel (I too, had downloaded the original Surprise program with the intent of porting it over to Linux), moving up, down, across and through waves is the defining factor of ma ritime travel. --jeff - Original Message - From: Steve Hosgood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sailing Ships (was Re: Tides in FlightGear?) Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 09:49:04 +0100 GWMobile wrote: What about changing the aerodynamic computation so they take place based on radius from the earth and at what would be sea level change the air density to that of water. Then any object below sealevel flys under those equations. It would allow for surface ships and submarines. And load in the whole terrain map of the world including all bathespheric data I'd considered this, but I don't have the knowledge of hydraulics necessary to try and parameterise a ship's behaviour to suit (say) jsbsim. I think we'd need to spend some time running model hulls through water tanks or flumes if we were ever to gain that sort of data, and that means waiting until some Ph.D ship design students fancy getting into the project! I'm thinking more modestly for now, i.e take Peter Davis's surprise FDM as a starting point. It doesn't handle any of the flotation aspects of a ship - just assumes the ship is at water level (which is OK until you want to try handling behaviour in waves). Davis's sim basically deals with thrust on sails up masts at various heights with yardarms set at given angles. Oh, and a rudder of course. It does consider heeling though, and in a true FDM for a ship I believe a heeled-over hull (as long as it is moving) is a significant contribution to being able to steer the thing. I've not dug in deep enough to see if Davis deals with heeling effects using real data or just fudge-factors. Either way, I think it'll be OK for a starter. FG's world model doesn't even need bathymetric data to start with. Basically you could get away with if (ship within 50m of land) then you've run aground; as a starting point. Worry about bathymetrics *after* getting the rest of it to work. But you're right about submarines of course. They do fly in the water. Boats are the special case. Steve. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- ___ Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way: Download Opera 8 at http://www.opera.com Powered by Outblaze ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel Bush's family and their Saudi partners make higher profits by preventing Saddam's huge Iraqi oil reserves from ever being sold. They'll Enron the world - George Watson 2001 For Hurricanes www.globalboiling.com For solar wind and earthquakes www.electricquakes.com Typos caused by two inch mobile phone keyboard ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [OT] First flight lesson
A steep sideslip approach with full flaps is the most fun you can safely have in a cessna! On Sat, 3 Jun 2006 3:10 pm, Ralf Gerlich wrote: Hi, Torsten Dreyer schrieb: following the tradition of reporting on the progress of the respective pilot's license on flightgear-devel, today it's my turn as today I had my very first flight lesson for the Sport Pilot's License for very light I can imagine the wide grin in your face ;-) Actually, that grin briefly vanished in the light turbulences we had here today. That's a thing you can't train on FlightGear (yet) ;-) You also won't get a wiff of the awkward position your in when slipping...but I'll get used to that. Congratulations and welcome to the sky! Thanks. If I hadn't already been addicted before, I would be now ;-) Cheers, Ralf ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel Bush's family and their Saudi partners make higher profits by preventing Saddam's huge Iraqi oil reserves from ever being sold. They'll Enron the world - George Watson 2001 For Hurricanes www.globalboiling.com For solar wind and earthquakes www.electricquakes.com Typos caused by two inch mobile phone keyboard ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear movies
You can use fraps to capture some. It is free. Google fraps. On Fri, 2 Jun 2006 10:02 am, Pigeon wrote: Are there any videos (screen captures) of flightgear in action on the web anywhere? http://pigeond.net/photos/flightgear/videos/ Pigeon. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel Bush's family and Saudi partners make higher profits/prices by preventing Saddam's huge Iraqi oil reserves from ever being sold. They'll Enron the world - George Watson 2001 For Hurricanes www.globalboiling.com For solar wind and earthquakes www.electricquakes.com Typos caused by two inch mobile phone keyboard ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sailing Ships (was Re: Tides in FlightGear?)
What about changing the aerodynamic computation so they take place based on radius from the earth and at what would be sea level change the air density to that of water. Then any object below sealevel flys under those equations. It would allow for surface ships and submarines. And load in the whole terrain map of the world including all bathespheric data The water surface could then just be a specialized cloud layer. That would give a great start. On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 10:30 am, Steve Hosgood wrote: Martin Doege wrote: Hi Steve! Naval simulations are great, but if integrating tides into the present-day ocean in FG is such a big technical challenge as it seems to be, I would not think that a real ocean with rolling waves, reefs, bathymetry, etc. is right around the corner. I think you would want to have something like in Virtual Sailor or Silent Hunter III and that is simply far removed from the blue plane that is currently the sea in FG. Hi Martin. I'm not sure the tides issue is likely to be a big technical challenge actually. In the space of about 4 postings here, a workable scheme was proposed of colouring certain triangles sea or mud according to their datum heights as compared with a local simplified tideheight generator. I can provide the maths for a tideheight generator, the only problem is providing a suitable set of triangles (tagged with datum heights) in a known tidal area. Also, on a tile-by-tile basis, a set of (probably four) tidal vectors has to be given. The graphics engine needs to know how to do the colouring on-the-fly, but compared with the magic that the 3D experts on this project have already acheived, that'll be done in an evening as soon as someone sets out to do it! But in general naval simulations don't always need flashy graphics to be fun, so finding a good graphics engine is probably not so important at this point. I ws intimating that I don't have to find one - I've found it! Right here. :-) As with all simulations, what really makes them absorbing is the feeling of being there, and while good graphics don't hurt, good gameplay matters more. For example, the submarine sim Red Storm Rising mostly had only tactical displays to look at that look about as boring as it gets, and yet it was an engaging game and the suspension of disbelief worked well. That's about what the current surprise program (windoze or linux) has. It's really just a wrapper around the FDM to let the FDM be used for something. So instead of hoping for great seascapes from FG/SimGear in the near (or not so near) future, I would first improve your existing FDM, add the ocean, include navigation aids, etc. Stars, sun and a stopwatch. That's all you get! Ok. Ok, I'm joking of course. That's all you get in the 18th century, but if sailing ships worm their way into the FG world, they'll be usable in any timeframe. After all, tall ships are still with us in the 21st century. Cannons and a damage model should also be added since you are mentioning Hornblower. As in Sid Meier's Pirates!, the crew should also be simulated, [giant snip] Funny, you've just written almost exactly what I wrote to The Admiral (Peter Davis) last year. His comments were that he never planned to make a game of the sim - his sentiments in fact matched closely to those we hear all the time here on the FlightGear discussions group. It's to be an accurate sim first and foremost, but if people want to add guns/missiles etc then that's up to them. I talked about crew, crew morale etc. (I've been a penpaper RPG-er for a long time.) Same sort of response - basically, he (Davis) is only really interested in getting the sim to work well and would be disappointed to see the project degenerate into just a game. Of course, done well then there's no reason why any of the additions you mention would degenerate the project - they should be seen as enhancements. Graphics could initially be fairly minimal, perhaps isometric view or 2D. Dovetailing into FG would allow 3D models from the start. I really don't want to have to build a custom isometric or 2D graphics engine just for surprise. This would also give you time to develop a good interface. All your points are very valid - especially this one. Unlike aircraft, saling ships don't have a single point of control. The nearest (in 18th century parlance) is the quarterdeck where the master or captain issues the orders, which then have to be relayed through several layers of middlemen to the grunts who pull the ropes. There is of course a ship's wheel but it's not a single point of control to compare with (say) an aircraft control column. Try it with suprise. The ship's wheel does precious little unless the ship is moving at quite a lick. It's the set of the sails (especially the spanker) that really steers the thing. I would also use a higher-level
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Re: Google earth mapping for fgfs scenery
The city orthoscopic aerial photo area from nasa are public domain as well and much higher res than landsat. On Sat, 27 May 2006 5:59 am, Paul Surgeon wrote: On Saturday 27 May 2006 09:41, Pigeon wrote: Then as a separate and non official flight gear project others could write a keystroke script to get google earth or probably easier google maps to display tiles around the area you want to fly and screen capture them and save them to a directory in flightgear along with an appropriate latitude and longitude. Currently they do not allow any non-web application use the google map data/images. Not sure about google earth but i imagine similar terms of use. And I think you can't capture or save the map images data by any mean for other uses either. Pigeon. I've had this same discussion before with Silent Wings users who don't seem to understand that if you can see something for free on the Internet doesn't make it free to use for other purposes. I'll spare everyone the pain and post the nasty bits of the Google Earth license. The same applies to Google Maps - it may only be viewed in a web browser. Period. 3. PROPRIETARY RIGHTS (a) You are only licensing rights to use the Software and the geographical information available to be viewed using the Software. The Software, in whole and in part and all copies thereof, are and will remain the sole and exclusive property of Google. Further, you do not receive any, and Google and/or its licensors (if any) retain all, ownership rights in the geographic information displayed using the Software. The geographic information is copyrighted and may not be copied, even if modified or merged with other data or software. Your use and access of the geographical information may be subject to further license requirements or obligations. As far as I can tell all the NASA World Wind data is released under public domain so that would be the best avenue to pursue unless someone wants to play with Google and get sued. The vast majority of the data is Landsat 7 ETM+ data which has a maximum resolution of 14.24 meters/pixel after being pan sharpened. Looks good from an altitude of about 3000km (~1ft) or in mountaineous areas like the European Alps. Paul --- All the advantages of Linux Managed Hosting--Without the Cost and Risk! Fully trained technicians. The highest number of Red Hat certifications in the hosting industry. Fanatical Support. Click to learn more http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=107521bid=248729dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel Bush's family and Saudi partners make higher profits/prices by preventing Saddam's huge Iraqi oil reserves from ever being sold. They'll Enron the world - George Watson 2001 For Hurricanes www.globalboiling.com For solar wind and earthquakes www.electricquakes.com Typos caused by two inch mobile phone keyboard --- All the advantages of Linux Managed Hosting--Without the Cost and Risk! Fully trained technicians. The highest number of Red Hat certifications in the hosting industry. Fanatical Support. Click to learn more http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=107521bid=248729dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] test
All the yahoogroups list have been down too. Aparently some virus is doing widepsread listserv message flooding or something. On Wed, 10 May 2006 6:30 pm, Chris Metzler wrote: On Wed, 10 May 2006 20:06:27 -0500 Jon S. Berndt wrote: I think the list has been down. I've been getting list messages, but in fits and starts. The archive at sourceforge, however, stopped archiving messages five days ago. *Again*. It's hard to justify complaining because it's free, after all. But SF's mailing list service is a bit of a joke. -c -- Chris Metzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (remove snip-me. to email) As a child I understood how to give; I have forgotten this grace since I have become civilized. - Chief Luther Standing Bear Bush's family and Saudi partners make higher profits/prices by stopping Saddam's huge Iraqi oil reserves from ever being sold. They'll Enron the world - George Watson 2001 For globalwarming www.globalboiling.com For solar wind and earthquakes www.electricquakes.com Typos caused by two inch mobile phone keyboard --- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] OT: Saturday night movie review
Interesting to hear that about you Curtis! And now I will see that movie! I wonder how many others of us got interested in flying and flight simulation because of a lot of moving around ( probably by flying) in our youth? Probably pretty much why I got into it now that I think about it. You know its been a long time since I have posted here (the first months actually on compuserve probably discussing feature sets and programming methodolgy!) but I have to say even though I always promoted the idea of a volunteer cooperatively written flight sim so heavily in all the flight sim magazines I was starting in the USA I none the less have been very impressed with flightgears development over the past year especially. Kudos to the coders! You rock! Geopilot Live data resources For solar wind and earthquakes www.electricquakes.com For hurricanes and globalwarming www.globalboiling.com Typed from my mobile phone. Please excuse the typos! --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=103432bid=230486dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
