Am 29.08.2012 22:56 schrieb Arioch arioch...@gmail.com:
Surely 1949-styled Pascal can not make all that features 1st citizens.
The question is how much and in what style of compromise can be
implemented.
Generics were also heresy for original Pascal. But they are implemented,
some in Delphi
On Wed, 29 Aug 2012, Arioch wrote:
Florian Klämpfl wrote
This is the prototypical way to run a function over each element in a
collection, returning the results.
(map (lambda (x) (+ x 1)) '(1 2 3))
- (2 3 4)
I still don't see why this cannot be done by procedure variables: one
can
At 12:09 AM 8/30/2012, michael.vancann...@wisa.be wrote:
I don't think anonymous functions should be added to the compiler at all.
They are IMHO a negation of what pascal stands for. If your programming
style is so strange that you need lamba functions or anonymous functions,
then Pascal is
I'm curious: where do you get this 1948 date from? I'm not even sure
that assemblers (as we know them) existed in 1949...
Mark Morgan Lloyd
Damn! you're definitely right.
At vwery very least Pascal could not be before Algol-68, which could not be
before... ahem.
But now I wonder myself
+1 - anonymous functions demonstrate a laziness to software design: what you
can't name you actually don't design...
- Mail original -
De: Ralf A. Quint free...@gmx.net
À: FPC-Pascal users discussions fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org
Envoyé: Jeudi 30 Août 2012 09:26:27
Objet: Re:
Ralf A. Quint wrote
At 12:09 AM 8/30/2012, michael.vancanneyt@ wrote:
They are IMHO a negation of what pascal stands for. If your programming
+1
Well, the same should be told about everything modern pascal is.
Open and dynamic arrays, pointer math, objects, generics, even units.
It was
Krzysztof wrote:
Hi,
I have some problem. Example:
I created some exec using free pascal and lazarus. It is placed on
http server. User in webbrowser click download, and server should
attach link from where it is clicked into this exec. So when user run
downloaded exec, this exec can read this
Sven Barth-2 wrote
Am 29.08.2012 22:56 schrieb Arioch lt;AriochThe@gt;:
I don't know whether you tested recent versions of FPC, but since 2.6.0
the
support for Delphi compatible generics improved, though generic
functions/methods and constraints are still missing.
Thanks. No, i just
I beg to differ. Read Niklaus' work on why he created Pascal: two objectives
stand out : readability and ease-of-compiling. He wrote explicitly he wanted a
language he could easily write his compiler in...
Sorry rigidity is not part of the original Pascal mandate. Look at Modula and
the more
tcoq wrote
a laziness to software design: what you can't name you actually don't
design...
Guess you meant don't want to instead of can't
And You mean all the non-named arrays, don't you.
var x: array[0..10] of integer; is not only violating Pascal Report, but
also is twice lazy.
since
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012, Arioch wrote:
Ralf A. Quint wrote
At 12:09 AM 8/30/2012, michael.vancanneyt@ wrote:
They are IMHO a negation of what pascal stands for. If your programming
+1
Well, the same should be told about everything modern pascal is.
Open and dynamic arrays, pointer math,
No, can't is the correct word. In Pascal, one should have the ability to name
the constructs one uses. For example, i like very much the ability to name my
own Event types:
type TOnMyEvent = procedure(aStr: string) of object;. Or my Exception types.
Thinking about the event name usually helps me
Arioch wrote:
tcoq wrote
a laziness to software design: what you can't name you actually don't
design...
Guess you meant don't want to instead of can't
And You mean all the non-named arrays, don't you.
var x: array[0..10] of integer; is not only violating Pascal Report, but
also is twice
If the new features conform to the readability
That heavily depends upon which patterns are known to reader.
We all are patterns recognizers.
And today world is very different.
In my example sketch, the calling like Data.Filter( _.TotalSale 20 ) is
concise and easy to understand.
Okay, given
On 30/08/2012 09:04, Arioch wrote:
Ralf A. Quint wrote
At 12:09 AM 8/30/2012, michael.vancanneyt@ wrote:
They are IMHO a negation of what pascal stands for. If your
programming
+1
Well, the same should be told about everything modern pascal is.
Open and dynamic arrays, pointer
var x: array[0..10] of integer; also is twice lazy.
type
SomeEnumSemanticName = 0..10;
SomeEnumMapSemanticName = array[SomeEnumSemanticName] of integer;
var x: SomeEnumMapSemanticName;
Except that not defining a distinct type emphasises that the array is
only being declared
Pascal never was a toy language. It always have too much required
naming-and-declarations/boilerplate/obstacles/you-name-it
Basic, Logo - let them be. But not the Pascal.
It was educational language but it was damn serious educational language.
However i believe that your but pointer math is
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012, Arioch wrote:
If the new features conform to the readability
[snip]
But afterall i am quitting on that. Since FPC are lacking closures i am sure
here are mostly people who personally dislike them. I wanted to document why
closures are good and do matter. Hopefully
This bevaviour is likely when someone starts with fpc, because the default
mode is Free Pascal (-Mfpc).
Wouldn't it be good to give an additional suggestion if the identifyer ist
result and the mode is -Mfpc?
For example: Identifier not found result, may could be resolved with other
syntax
On 29/08/12 23:23, Jonas Maebe wrote:
The first thing you can try is to compile with -gh, hoping that it
will abort in a place closer to the cause of the problem. -CRr is
also a very useful debugging switch.
Thanks for the detailed information. The bug is not fixed yet, but I did
eventually
Regarding this: I wish to stress that my views on lambdas or closures are
my own;
For what i understand, those are different things.
Lambdas are runtime code generators and are out of question for natively
compiled language.
Closures are not.
Maybe that is nitpicking today, since the names seems
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012, Arioch wrote:
From personal experience, when i first time saw how pascalish is closures
implementation in Delphi i just admired the ease in which that concept was
fused into the language of very different style built upon very different
ideas. It was so elegant when
Thank you but I am a professional trainer for C++, Java, Ada and other
languages including Lisp. I am used to those languages. I consistently see
young professionals stumble upon those constructs they are used to.
Furthermore, all the professional users of the developed software are not used
On 30-8-2012 10:07, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
Krzysztof wrote:
everything is in one file (and must be). My question is, exists any
commandline tool which can edit executable file for edit some resource
(like ResEdit or Restorator for Windows) which can be used by http
server?
Let's see if
In our previous episode, michael.vancann...@wisa.be said:
From personal experience, when i first time saw how pascalish is closures
implementation in Delphi i just admired the ease in which that concept was
fused into the language of very different style built upon very different
ideas. It
Since this behavior is documented, one should read the documentation first:
http://www.freepascal.org/docs-html/ref/refse76.html
Anyway, how could one find that Result is used as function result without
reading the docs?
--
View this message in context:
Maybe I can write own commandline tool for server admins, which can
edit resource of another (written in FPC too) executable?
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Krzysztof wrote on Thu, 30 Aug 2012:
Maybe I can write own commandline tool for server admins, which can
edit resource of another (written in FPC too) executable?
I think the easiest is to add the data at the end of the binary, as
has been suggested earlier. It breaks signed applications,
Am Thursday 30 August 2012 14:39:06 schrieb leledumbo:
Since this behavior is documented, one should read the documentation first:
http://www.freepascal.org/docs-html/ref/refse76.html
There is much documentation spread over many servers.
Anyway, how could one find that Result is used as
Rainer Stratmann wrote:
Am Thursday 30 August 2012 14:39:06 schrieb leledumbo:
Since this behavior is documented, one should read the documentation first:
http://www.freepascal.org/docs-html/ref/refse76.html
There is much documentation spread over many servers.
Anyway, how could one find
On 30-8-2012 15:08, Rainer Stratmann wrote:
Am Thursday 30 August 2012 14:39:06 schrieb leledumbo:
Since this behavior is documented, one should read the documentation first:
http://www.freepascal.org/docs-html/ref/refse76.html
There is much documentation spread over many servers.
I don't
Am Thursday 30 August 2012 15:20:46 schrieb Mark Morgan Lloyd:
When someone wants to compile a TurboPascal or Delphi program with
freepascal. Then he already knows that result is a function result, but
freepascal gives an error about this.
I agree. However I don't know whether a blanket
Am Thursday 30 August 2012 15:33:36 schrieb Reinier Olislagers:
On 30-8-2012 15:08, Rainer Stratmann wrote:
Am Thursday 30 August 2012 14:39:06 schrieb leledumbo:
Since this behavior is documented, one should read the documentation
first: http://www.freepascal.org/docs-html/ref/refse76.html
On 30-8-2012 15:49, Rainer Stratmann wrote:
Am Thursday 30 August 2012 15:33:36 schrieb Reinier Olislagers:
On 30-8-2012 15:08, Rainer Stratmann wrote:
Am Thursday 30 August 2012 14:39:06 schrieb leledumbo:
Since this behavior is documented, one should read the documentation
first:
Am Thursday 30 August 2012 15:59:12 schrieb Reinier Olislagers:
On 30-8-2012 15:49, Rainer Stratmann wrote:
Am Thursday 30 August 2012 15:33:36 schrieb Reinier Olislagers:
On 30-8-2012 15:08, Rainer Stratmann wrote:
Am Thursday 30 August 2012 14:39:06 schrieb leledumbo:
Since this
Hmm sounds good. So I can normally open another exec in for example
TFileStream and write something at the end and this exec run without
error?
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Krzysztof wrote on Thu, 30 Aug 2012:
Hmm sounds good. So I can normally open another exec in for example
TFileStream and write something at the end and this exec run without
error?
Yes. Do keep in mind that the original exe has to be able to find the
length of the data you appended to it.
On 30-8-2012 16:27, Jonas Maebe wrote:
Krzysztof wrote on Thu, 30 Aug 2012:
Hmm sounds good. So I can normally open another exec in for example
TFileStream and write something at the end and this exec run without
error?
Yes. Do keep in mind that the original exe has to be able to find
On Thu, August 30, 2012 15:08, Rainer Stratmann wrote:
Am Thursday 30 August 2012 14:39:06 schrieb leledumbo:
Since this behavior is documented, one should read the documentation
first:
http://www.freepascal.org/docs-html/ref/refse76.html
There is much documentation spread over many servers.
Am Thursday 30 August 2012 16:50:30 schrieb Tomas Hajny:
The scenario occures when someone starts freepascal as I already
documented in
my first E-Mail.
When someone wants to compile a TurboPascal or Delphi program with
freepascal.
Then he already knows that result is a function
Rainer Stratmann wrote:
TP for DOS at
least supports a function result (as I remember) thus it is not Delphi only
as you mention.
It supports a function result, but it doesn't IIRC treat 'result' as a
special identifier. Delphi /has/ to have 'result', since otherwise
redefining standard
Rainer Stratmann wrote:
I am not familiar with the compilers soucecode.
I don't think that it is that difficult to implement.
Those two statements are contradictory. I've previously raised issues
related to command-line options and error messages, and had the issues
patiently explained
Am Thursday 30 August 2012 17:46:09 schrieb Mark Morgan Lloyd:
Rainer Stratmann wrote:
I am not familiar with the compilers soucecode.
I don't think that it is that difficult to implement.
Those two statements are contradictory. I've previously raised issues
related to command-line
Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
Rainer Stratmann wrote:
TP for DOS at least supports a function result (as I remember) thus it
is not Delphi only as you mention.
It supports a function result, but it doesn't IIRC treat 'result' as a
special identifier. Delphi /has/ to have 'result', since
On 30 Aug 2012, at 17:14, Rainer Stratmann wrote:
TP for DOS at
least supports a function result (as I remember) thus it is not Delphi only
as you mention.
Turbo Pascal does not support the result alias for the function result.
What's wrong with such a message that is easy to implement
Am Thursday 30 August 2012 18:07:13 schrieb Jonas Maebe:
On 30 Aug 2012, at 17:14, Rainer Stratmann wrote:
TP for DOS at
least supports a function result (as I remember) thus it is not Delphi
only as you mention.
Turbo Pascal does not support the result alias for the function result.
On Thu, August 30, 2012 17:14, Rainer Stratmann wrote:
Am Thursday 30 August 2012 16:50:30 schrieb Tomas Hajny:
The scenario occures when someone starts freepascal as I already
documented in
my first E-Mail.
When someone wants to compile a TurboPascal or Delphi program with
At 01:18 AM 8/30/2012, Arioch wrote:
tcoq wrote
a laziness to software design: what you can't name you actually don't
design...
Guess you meant don't want to instead of can't
And You mean all the non-named arrays, don't you.
var x: array[0..10] of integer; is not only violating Pascal
I still fail to see where annonymous functions could succeed where
functional types (part of pascal since last millenia) wouldnt...
2012/8/30 Ralf A. Quint free...@gmx.net:
At 01:18 AM 8/30/2012, Arioch wrote:
tcoq wrote
a laziness to software design: what you can't name you actually
Am Thursday 30 August 2012 18:28:41 schrieb Tomas Hajny:
I
do not say that it is wrong to be more helpful in error messages, but
rather that your proposal tries to fix a very small fragment of
something much more general and moreover that the proposed message may be
very easily misleading as
On 30-8-2012 18:44, Rainer Stratmann wrote:
Am Thursday 30 August 2012 18:28:41 schrieb Tomas Hajny:
I
do not say that it is wrong to be more helpful in error messages, but
rather that your proposal tries to fix a very small fragment of
something much more general and moreover that the
On 30.08.2012 11:03, Arioch wrote:
But afterall i am quitting on that. Since FPC are lacking closures i am sure
here are mostly people who personally dislike them. I wanted to document why
closures are good and do matter. Hopefully i did it to the extent i was able
to. Surely i would not be able
Thanks to all!
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Am 2012-08-30 18:29, schrieb Ralf A. Quint:
Pascal has evolved since Wirth's original design back in the 70s
This is true. But there are two aspects of the Pascal extensions of the last years
(decades) that contradict with what I would call the spirit of Pascal:
1.) Many extensions add to the
On 30/08/12 17:07, Jonas Maebe wrote:
Turbo Pascal does not support the result alias for the function
result.
Yup, I can confirm that. I just tested with Turbo Pascal 5.5 :) Wow,
that brought back memories.
Graeme.
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In our previous episode, Sven Barth said:
The closures (or anonymous functions as they are called in Delphi) are
missing, because none of the developers has them on the important slots
of the todo lists. So as long as nobody comes and implements them then
they are not going to be
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