Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS and Turbo C 2.01

[Abe Mishler]

From: Abe Mishler <a...@mishlerlabs.com>

Thanks. I'll look into OpenWatcom. I see it is supposed to have a nice debugger
and Id used it for Doom. Interesting.

> On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:11 PM, Rugxulo <rugx...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>> On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 9:12 PM, Abe Mishler <a...@mishlerlabs.com> wrote:
>>
>> Is anybody else running the Turbo C 2.01 IDE under FreeDOS? I appreciate any
>> help towards this end.
>
> I don't normally use IDEs. The very few times I do, I use TC++101
> instead (which has less bugs and is noticeably faster code). While
> Embarcadero has annoying restrictions, you can still allegedly
> download (newer) TC++ but maybe have to (also) download (Windows)
> trialware/bloatware first. So please try that, it's a better choice.
>
> https://edn.embarcadero.com/article/21751
>
> Just for completeness, you can dual boot MS-DOS and FreeDOS with
> MetaKern. But I don't think it's necessary, and I'd honestly be
> surprised if this was truly a kernel bug.
>
> The only quirk I remember hearing about in recent years was slowdown
> (in Borland IDEs) due to FDAPM, but that can be worked around by using
> "ADV:REG" instead.
>
> Sorry if that's not quite the perfect solution you want to hear.
> Honestly, we have so many other compilers that few consider Borland
> tools that crucial anymore. (I know some people prefer them, but we
> don't *need* them, thankfully.)
>
> If all you want is error checking (jump to compiler errors in editor),
> I think even a DJGPP compile of JED supported that. Heck, a lot of
> text editors (TPE?) also supported such error-jumping.
>
> http://texteditors.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TPE
>
> Normally, since it is OSI-approved and supports cross-compilation,
> OpenWatcom is preferred for FreeDOS development. It doesn't come with
> a (DOS) IDE, only a vi clone. IIRC, although I only tried it maybe
> once, there was also an old third-party (DOS, Watcom) IDE called
> PowerView, which you can find (and sources) on Simtel mirror under
> /pgmutl/ (pvide50.zip, pvidesrc.zip):
>
> http://cd.textfiles.com/simtel0101/simtel/pgmutl/
>
> Other than that, I don't know what to tell you. (DJGPP has old/dead
> RHIDE, and FPC has its own [Go32v2] IDE.)
>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Freedos-user mailing list
> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901)
--- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3
 *  Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

[Freedos-user] FreeDOS and Turbo C 2.01

[Abe Mishler]

From: Abe Mishler <a...@mishlerlabs.com>


--===6731207753946451030==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary=Apple-Mail-18BCD262-CD8B-4EB1-91D3-D435A3AA1B29
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


--Apple-Mail-18BCD262-CD8B-4EB1-91D3-D435A3AA1B29
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hey everyone,

I would like to run Borland's Turbo C 2.01 (freely available now from [0])
under FreeDOS. I can only get the IDE (TC.EXE) to run under MS-DOS (I have
6.22) which is somewhat disappointing given my goal of using FreeDOS.

I did some searching regarding this issue and found this thread [1] and after
attempting to replace the KERNEL.SYS with multiple others, none have fixed the
problem.

Anyways, I would expect FreeDOS 1.2 to come with an updated kernel that could
do this kind of memory allocation out of the box. Perhaps that's not the issue.

Is anybody else running the Turbo C 2.01 IDE under FreeDOS? I appreciate any
help towards this end.

[0] http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/20841
[1] http://freedos.10956.n7.nabble.com/HELP-Turbo-C-3-0-won-t-run-td6716.html

Best,
Abe
--Apple-Mail-18BCD262-CD8B-4EB1-91D3-D435A3AA1B29
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hey
everyone,I would like to run Borland's Turbo C
2.01 (freely available now from [0]) under FreeDOS. I can only get the IDE
(TC.EXE) to run under MS-DOS (I have 6.22) which is somewhat disappointing
given my goal of using FreeDOS.I did some
searching regarding this issue and found this thread [1] and after attempting
to replace the KERNEL.SYS with multiple others, none have fixed the
problem.Anyways, I would expect FreeDOS 1.2 to come
with an updated kernel that could do this kind of memory allocation out of the
box. Perhaps that's not the issue.Is anybody else
running the Turbo C 2.01 IDE under FreeDOS? I appreciate any help towards this
end.[0]http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/20841;>http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/20841[1]http://freedos.10956.n7.nabble.com/HELP-Turbo-C-3-0-won-t-run-td6716.html;>http://freedos.10956.n7.nabble.com/HELP-Turbo-C-3-0-won-t-run-td6716.htmlBest,Abe
--Apple-Mail-18BCD262-CD8B-4EB1-91D3-D435A3AA1B29--


--===6731207753946451030==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
--===6731207753946451030==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

--===6731207753946451030==--

--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901)
--- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3
 *  Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] HTTPS

[ABE MISHLER]

From: Abe Mishler <a...@mishlerlabs.com>



> On Aug 1, 2016, at 5:24 AM, dmccunney <dennis.mccun...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 3:41 AM, dos386 <dos...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> The bloat increase is just incredible :-D and sure RAM and CPU
>>>> consumption grows too
>>
>>> One man's bloat is another's feature. I've been running Mozilla code
>>> since it was still an internal Netscape
>>
>> COOL ... at that time they refused to add support for MNG as it
>
> You mean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple-image_Network_Graphics ?
>
>> would add 10 KiO of bloat ...
>
> More to the point, who *needed* it?
>
> MNG is PNG with support for animation.  PNG was created to be a
> graphics format unencumbered by patents.
>
> The GIF format used LZW compression.  Terry Welch, the W in LZW,
> worked for Sperry when he wrote the paper that described a version of
> the Lev-Zempel compression algorithm that was simpler and easier to
> implement in software. Because he worked for Sperry, they owned the
> rights to his work.  Compuserve introduced the GIF format in 1987, and
> used LZW as the compression algorithm.  Meanwhile, Burroughs bought
> Sperry and became Unisys.  In 1994, someone at Unisys realized they
> owned a patent on the compression used in GIF files and that began
> going after Compuserve and other sites that used GIF for graphics to
> get compensation.
>
> PNG grew out of that mess, as developers recognized a need for a
> graphics format unencumbered by patent.  But the PNG developers didn't
> care for the MNG format - they thought overloading PNG to also do
> animation was bad design, and something different should be done..The
> whole question became moot b y 2004 when the relevant Unisys patents
> had all expired expired.
>
> I don't recall ever seeing an MNG file, and if I were Mozilla, I
> wouldn't bother to add support for something no one actually used,
> even if it produced *no* bloat.
>
>> now we have 50 MiO bloat of the
>> browser + 20 MiO bloat of Flu$h instead :-D
>
> You can not install or uninstall Adobe Flash.  If you never do
> anything that needs Flash, you'll never miss it.  Most folks *do*
> stuff that needs Flash and that's not an option.
>
> What sort of other stuff might you *omit* from Mozilla code to trim
> bloat?  What do you consider bloat?
>
>>> The big step towards that came from Cisco.  The defacto standard
>>> encoding for video these days is H_264, but it's a proprietary spec
>>
>> There used to be a draft back in 2007 recommending Theora
>> for coming HTML5 ... but it was trashed after pressure of some
>> companies (Adobe, Banana/Apple, ...) ... and now 9 years later
>> we have 10 times more bloated browsers and still no usable
>> standard, and most video pages still rudely cry for Flu$h.
>
> H_264 got the nod because it provides better compression, and video
> takes bandwidth.  Google was looking at Theora as an alternative when
> they decided to make Chrome fully open source.  Cisco's purchase of a
> license that allowed them to offer an open source reference
> implementation removed the need to do that.
>
> We *have* a usable spec, and it's being implemented.  (There's a lot
> more to HTML5 than the new  keyword, and not all of it is fully
> defined yet, but folks are implementing the parts that are as they
> can.)
>
> I don't think "most" video pages rudely cry for flash, and video isn't
> the only reason Flash is deployed.  Folks are  moving away from it as
> fast as they can.  But getting rid of Flash is a complex exercise.
> Adobe has a beta tool to help migrate extant Flash code to HTML5, but
> it's not a simple or easy process, and doing it takes time and costs
> money.  Got a site where you would really like to see Flash go away in
> favor of HTML5?  Are *you* willing to pay what it will cost them to do
> it?  I didn't think so.  Expect them to spend the money just to make
> *you* happy?  I *hope* you don't think so.
>
>>> You are *not* representative of the mass user base
>>
>> well :-D
>
>>> and what works for you will not work for 99% of the rest of the world
>>
>> You are wrong. The Internet used more or less to work for 99% of the
>> world ... the problem is that those 99% love to throw away something
>> that works (proverb: "change the winning team ASAP") for no reason.
>
> The Internet more or less worked for 99% of the world using the stuff
> you advocate *20 years ago*.
>
> Since you seem to have missed the fact, I'll be a good guy and clue
> you in.  That was *then*.  This is *now*. What worked 20 years ago

Re: [Freedos-user] Simple

[ABE MISHLER]

From: Abe Mishler <a...@mishlerlabs.com>

Bill,

Earlier this summer, one of the many helpful people here pointed out
that the VHD format can be mounted directly by Windows. You can probably
find a guide for doing something similar on Linux with whatever format
you have chosen. The VM of course needs to be off while mounted by the
host so this method may not be as convenient as networking. But I
thought I would mention it as a possibility.

Best,
Abe

On 12/25/2016 4:57 PM, William Dudley wrote:
> Is there a simple guide for networking FreeDOS 1.2 in a VirtualBox VM ?
>
> 1.2 is too new for there to be anything in the mailing list archives on
> this.
>
> I never got networking going in the previous FreeDOS release.  Getting files
> in and out (especially out) of the VM is like pulling teeth.
>
> Thanks,
> Bill Dudley
>
> This email is free of malware because I run Linux.
>
>
>
--
> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
> Training and support from Colfax.
> Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
>
>
>
> ___
> Freedos-user mailing list
> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>

--
Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
Training and support from Colfax.
Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: Mishler Labs (1:2320/105.99)

---
 * BgNet 1.0b12 = CCO * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * capcity2.synchro.net
--- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3
 *  Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS and Turbo C 2.01

[Abe Mishler]

Thanks. I'll look into OpenWatcom. I see it is supposed to have a nice debugger 
and Id used it for Doom. Interesting.

> On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:11 PM, Rugxulo <rugx...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>> On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 9:12 PM, Abe Mishler <a...@mishlerlabs.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Is anybody else running the Turbo C 2.01 IDE under FreeDOS? I appreciate any
>> help towards this end.
> 
> I don't normally use IDEs. The very few times I do, I use TC++101
> instead (which has less bugs and is noticeably faster code). While
> Embarcadero has annoying restrictions, you can still allegedly
> download (newer) TC++ but maybe have to (also) download (Windows)
> trialware/bloatware first. So please try that, it's a better choice.
> 
> https://edn.embarcadero.com/article/21751
> 
> Just for completeness, you can dual boot MS-DOS and FreeDOS with
> MetaKern. But I don't think it's necessary, and I'd honestly be
> surprised if this was truly a kernel bug.
> 
> The only quirk I remember hearing about in recent years was slowdown
> (in Borland IDEs) due to FDAPM, but that can be worked around by using
> "ADV:REG" instead.
> 
> Sorry if that's not quite the perfect solution you want to hear.
> Honestly, we have so many other compilers that few consider Borland
> tools that crucial anymore. (I know some people prefer them, but we
> don't *need* them, thankfully.)
> 
> If all you want is error checking (jump to compiler errors in editor),
> I think even a DJGPP compile of JED supported that. Heck, a lot of
> text editors (TPE?) also supported such error-jumping.
> 
> http://texteditors.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TPE
> 
> Normally, since it is OSI-approved and supports cross-compilation,
> OpenWatcom is preferred for FreeDOS development. It doesn't come with
> a (DOS) IDE, only a vi clone. IIRC, although I only tried it maybe
> once, there was also an old third-party (DOS, Watcom) IDE called
> PowerView, which you can find (and sources) on Simtel mirror under
> /pgmutl/ (pvide50.zip, pvidesrc.zip):
> 
> http://cd.textfiles.com/simtel0101/simtel/pgmutl/
> 
> Other than that, I don't know what to tell you. (DJGPP has old/dead
> RHIDE, and FPC has its own [Go32v2] IDE.)
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Freedos-user mailing list
> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

[Freedos-user] FreeDOS and Turbo C 2.01

[Abe Mishler]

Hey everyone,

I would like to run Borland's Turbo C 2.01 (freely available now from [0]) 
under FreeDOS. I can only get the IDE (TC.EXE) to run under MS-DOS (I have 
6.22) which is somewhat disappointing given my goal of using FreeDOS. 

I did some searching regarding this issue and found this thread [1] and after 
attempting to replace the KERNEL.SYS with multiple others, none have fixed the 
problem.

Anyways, I would expect FreeDOS 1.2 to come with an updated kernel that could 
do this kind of memory allocation out of the box. Perhaps that's not the issue.

Is anybody else running the Turbo C 2.01 IDE under FreeDOS? I appreciate any 
help towards this end.

[0] http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/20841
[1] http://freedos.10956.n7.nabble.com/HELP-Turbo-C-3-0-won-t-run-td6716.html

Best,
Abe--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] Simple guide for networking FreeDOS 1.2 in a VirtualBox VM ?

[Abe Mishler]

Bill,

Earlier this summer, one of the many helpful people here pointed out 
that the VHD format can be mounted directly by Windows. You can probably 
find a guide for doing something similar on Linux with whatever format 
you have chosen. The VM of course needs to be off while mounted by the 
host so this method may not be as convenient as networking. But I 
thought I would mention it as a possibility.

Best,
Abe

On 12/25/2016 4:57 PM, William Dudley wrote:
> Is there a simple guide for networking FreeDOS 1.2 in a VirtualBox VM ?
>
> 1.2 is too new for there to be anything in the mailing list archives on
> this.
>
> I never got networking going in the previous FreeDOS release.  Getting files
> in and out (especially out) of the VM is like pulling teeth.
>
> Thanks,
> Bill Dudley
>
> This email is free of malware because I run Linux.
>
>
> --
> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
> Training and support from Colfax.
> Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
>
>
>
> ___
> Freedos-user mailing list
> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>

--
Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
Training and support from Colfax.
Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] HTTPS and DOS browsers

[Abe Mishler]

> On Aug 1, 2016, at 5:24 AM, dmccunney  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 3:41 AM, dos386  wrote:
 The bloat increase is just incredible :-D and sure RAM and CPU
 consumption grows too
>> 
>>> One man's bloat is another's feature. I've been running Mozilla code
>>> since it was still an internal Netscape
>> 
>> COOL ... at that time they refused to add support for MNG as it
> 
> You mean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple-image_Network_Graphics ?
> 
>> would add 10 KiO of bloat ...
> 
> More to the point, who *needed* it?
> 
> MNG is PNG with support for animation.  PNG was created to be a
> graphics format unencumbered by patents.
> 
> The GIF format used LZW compression.  Terry Welch, the W in LZW,
> worked for Sperry when he wrote the paper that described a version of
> the Lev-Zempel compression algorithm that was simpler and easier to
> implement in software. Because he worked for Sperry, they owned the
> rights to his work.  Compuserve introduced the GIF format in 1987, and
> used LZW as the compression algorithm.  Meanwhile, Burroughs bought
> Sperry and became Unisys.  In 1994, someone at Unisys realized they
> owned a patent on the compression used in GIF files and that began
> going after Compuserve and other sites that used GIF for graphics to
> get compensation.
> 
> PNG grew out of that mess, as developers recognized a need for a
> graphics format unencumbered by patent.  But the PNG developers didn't
> care for the MNG format - they thought overloading PNG to also do
> animation was bad design, and something different should be done..The
> whole question became moot b y 2004 when the relevant Unisys patents
> had all expired expired.
> 
> I don't recall ever seeing an MNG file, and if I were Mozilla, I
> wouldn't bother to add support for something no one actually used,
> even if it produced *no* bloat.
> 
>> now we have 50 MiO bloat of the
>> browser + 20 MiO bloat of Flu$h instead :-D
> 
> You can not install or uninstall Adobe Flash.  If you never do
> anything that needs Flash, you'll never miss it.  Most folks *do*
> stuff that needs Flash and that's not an option.
> 
> What sort of other stuff might you *omit* from Mozilla code to trim
> bloat?  What do you consider bloat?
> 
>>> The big step towards that came from Cisco.  The defacto standard
>>> encoding for video these days is H_264, but it's a proprietary spec
>> 
>> There used to be a draft back in 2007 recommending Theora
>> for coming HTML5 ... but it was trashed after pressure of some
>> companies (Adobe, Banana/Apple, ...) ... and now 9 years later
>> we have 10 times more bloated browsers and still no usable
>> standard, and most video pages still rudely cry for Flu$h.
> 
> H_264 got the nod because it provides better compression, and video
> takes bandwidth.  Google was looking at Theora as an alternative when
> they decided to make Chrome fully open source.  Cisco's purchase of a
> license that allowed them to offer an open source reference
> implementation removed the need to do that.
> 
> We *have* a usable spec, and it's being implemented.  (There's a lot
> more to HTML5 than the new  keyword, and not all of it is fully
> defined yet, but folks are implementing the parts that are as they
> can.)
> 
> I don't think "most" video pages rudely cry for flash, and video isn't
> the only reason Flash is deployed.  Folks are  moving away from it as
> fast as they can.  But getting rid of Flash is a complex exercise.
> Adobe has a beta tool to help migrate extant Flash code to HTML5, but
> it's not a simple or easy process, and doing it takes time and costs
> money.  Got a site where you would really like to see Flash go away in
> favor of HTML5?  Are *you* willing to pay what it will cost them to do
> it?  I didn't think so.  Expect them to spend the money just to make
> *you* happy?  I *hope* you don't think so.
> 
>>> You are *not* representative of the mass user base
>> 
>> well :-D
> 
>>> and what works for you will not work for 99% of the rest of the world
>> 
>> You are wrong. The Internet used more or less to work for 99% of the
>> world ... the problem is that those 99% love to throw away something
>> that works (proverb: "change the winning team ASAP") for no reason.
> 
> The Internet more or less worked for 99% of the world using the stuff
> you advocate *20 years ago*.
> 
> Since you seem to have missed the fact, I'll be a good guy and clue
> you in.  That was *then*.  This is *now*. What worked 20 years ago
> *won't* work now.  The world has changed and we have to change with
> it.  Standing still is *not* an option.
> 
I must point out the irony in that position on a *mailing list* about 
Free*DOS*. Thanks for that. It was a good chuckle 8-p

This topic does point out how far away we are from _The Future_ where 
everyone's computer terminal magically connects to Skynet or The Oasis with 
equal access for all. Sometimes I yearn for simpler times too ... or 

Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS 1.1 crashing in VirtualBox 5.0.22

[Abe Mishler]

Great tip!!! I'll have to try that!

> On Jul 2, 2016, at 6:30 PM, Ulrich Hansen <my.gr...@mailbox.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi Abe,
> 
>> Am 01.07.2016 um 14:59 schrieb Abe Mishler <a...@mishlerlabs.com>:
>> 
>> except linux can 
>> mount raw images for native file sharing 
> 
> Today I found out: If I choose „VHD“ as type for the virtual harddisk in 
> VirtualBox, I am able to mount the VirtualBox image in Windows too. 
> 
> See: https://www.lazybrowndog.net/freedos/files/vhd.png
> 
> Now I just open „Computer Management“ in Windows, right-click on "Disk 
> Management" and choose "Attach VHD“.
> See this description here: 
> http://www.online-tech-tips.com/computer-tips/create-mount-vhd-windows/
> 
> (You can only attach local VHDs, not those on a network share.)
> 
> And for the record: For OS X there is a free program by Paragon, which does 
> the same:
> 
> https://www.paragon-software.com/home/vd-mounter-mac-free/
> 
> So another thing VirtualBox can do as good as qemu.
> 
> Ulrich
> 
> 
> --
> Attend Shape: An AT Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT Park in San
> Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries
> present their vision of the future. This family event has something for
> everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today.
> http://sdm.link/attshape
> ___
> Freedos-user mailing list
> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
--
Attend Shape: An AT Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT Park in San
Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries
present their vision of the future. This family event has something for
everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today.
http://sdm.link/attshape___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS 1.1 crashing in VirtualBox 5.0.22

[Abe Mishler]

> On Jul 1, 2016, at 4:17 PM, Rugxulo  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 10:08 AM, Eric Auer  wrote:
>> 
>> I think that even 597 kB of low DOS memory is plenty for old DOS programs.
> 
> "597 kb should be enough for anyone." -- Eric Auer, 2016:-)
> 
> In Abe's recent screenshot, he shows that he's now getting (thanks to
> Ulrich) "628 kb" free. This is actually "643,488" bytes! That's
> plenty! (It's easy to forget that "kb" is not equal to 1000.)
> 
> Seriously, I can't speak for all apps, but it's rare to need (much
> more, if any) greater than 500 kb. Needing 600 kb is almost unheard of
> (right??). At least, I only vaguely remember one demo (submerge??)
> that needed over 600,000 bytes free. And even that was probably badly
> designed. Some games require more than 500 kb, but that too is of
> questionable design. Most well-behaved apps (yeah, I know that's not
> saying much) don't really need that much.
> 
> My own VBox setup "only" gets 596 kb (610,544) free. That's HimemX
> only (and FreeCOM XMS_Swap, of course; and yes, packet driver can vary
> a lot in size, too). I can't remember exactly, but my native FreeDOS
> install is also similar, and I see no huge problems. Though it's
> impossible to test everything, of course.
> 
> Can anyone provide real-world usage examples of needing 600,000 bytes
> or more free?? (Besides obvious things like user data or combining
> several TSRs.) Do any popular apps from yesteryear need that much?
> 
I don't have any real-world data for apps, but  I'm interested in learning how 
games like DOOM (requires 3MB available) were able to work. I know I know, read 
the source code. I'm getting there. I'm also reading "MS-DOS Beyond 640K" by 
James Forney. Interesting to note that Id says not to use memory managers or 
disk caching programs with Doom. Doom and other games must do their own memory 
management which makes sense for performance.

http://www.classicdoom.com/doominfo.htm

--
Attend Shape: An AT Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT Park in San
Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries
present their vision of the future. This family event has something for
everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today.
http://sdm.link/attshape
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS 1.1 crashing in VirtualBox 5.0.22

[Abe Mishler]

Hi Ulrich!

On 7/1/2016 3:35 AM, Ulrich Hansen wrote:
>
>> Am 01.07.2016 um 01:51 schrieb Abe Mishler <a...@mishlerlabs.com
>> <mailto:a...@mishlerlabs.com>>:
>>
>>  I have been learning a lot about JEMMEX as compared to the other
>> drivers lately.
>
> Hi Abe,
>
> If you don’t mind, it would be great if you could try one last thing
> with VirtualBox and JEMMEX:
>
> Please try to start JEMMEX with this line in FDCONFIG.SYS:
>
> 1?DEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\JEMMEX.EXE NOEMS X=TEST I=B000-B7FF I=C800-EFFF
> NOVME NOINVLPG
>
That works like a charm! Do those regions work for you?

Could you provide an explanation regarding those regions?

I will now revisit my decision to use QEMU on linux... except linux can 
mount raw images for native file sharing without having to FTP into 
FreeDOS (which I got working).

Thanks a lot for re-opening my can of worms!!! :-p

Seriously though, after all of my learning, I think I had decided 
yesterday to walk away from JEMMEX ... (circling back around) in which 
case VirtualBox works just fine... decisions, decisions... grrr.

http://tinypic.com/r/30hq7gi/9

Extended (XMS), Total=32,704K, Used=6,005K, Free=26,699K
Total Expanded (EMS) = 8,576K
Free Expanded (EMS) = 8,192K
Largest executable program size = 628K
Largest free upper memory block = 137K

Thanks!

> Important are both includes I=B000-B7FF I=C800-EFFF.
> Does this change anything for you? Does it still crash?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
> --
> Attend Shape: An AT Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT Park in San
> Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries
> present their vision of the future. This family event has something for
> everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today.
> http://sdm.link/attshape
>
>
>
> ___
> Freedos-user mailing list
> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>

--
Attend Shape: An AT Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT Park in San
Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries
present their vision of the future. This family event has something for
everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today.
http://sdm.link/attshape
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS 1.1 crashing in VirtualBox 5.0.22

[Abe Mishler]

Hi,

> On Jun 30, 2016, at 6:19 PM, Rugxulo <rugx...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>> On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 6:17 AM, Abe Mishler <a...@mishlerlabs.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 6/29/2016 1:03 PM, Rugxulo wrote:
>> 
>> On the page that you sent regarding QEMU Binaries for Windows, it says:
>> "QEMU for Windows is experimental software and might contain even
>> serious bugs, so use the binaries at your own risk."
> 
> It's just a standard disclaimer, don't read too much into it. It works
> fine for me (FreeDOS). While I haven't exhaustively tested gigabytes
> of software, everything I tried seems to work fairly well, no huge
> obvious deficiencies. So don't worry.
> 
> The only real problem would be if it had major bugs and they refused
> to hear bug reports or even consider fixing them. AFAIK, that's not
> true. But indeed, I do think they prefer Linux more.
> 
> Nevertheless, several other OSes bundle Windows binaries of QEMU with
> some of their releases (e.g. ReactOS, AROS), so it must also work well
> for them too. So don't overreact, it works! But no software is 100%
> perfect, hence some people feel the need to explicitly disclaim legal
> liability, etc.
> 
>> Since QEMU is more mature on linux right now, I installed Xubuntu 16.04
>> LTS inside VirtualBox (5.0.24 now) and then QEMU inside of that.
> 
> I don't think it's a billion times more mature there. QEMU is a very
> complicated suite of software, for many many different architectures.
> Certainly it's almost strange / funny / pointless to install QEMU
> inside another OS inside VBox!
Yes, the levels of virtualization were getting ridiculous! Funny how it sped 
things up on a Win8.1 host though!!! I guess the farther away from Windows you 
get... well you fill in the rest. Ha!
> 
> VBox works well too. If you have problems with JEMMEX, then don't run
> that. Again, you really don't need it at all. Don't kid yourself, VBox
> is well-tested (overall), just not as much for DOS. So FreeDOS still
> (mostly) works fine there.
Great to hear! I have been learning a lot about JEMMEX as compared to the other 
drivers lately. You guys have been a terrific help!

> 
>> FreeDOS is much peppier inside of this configuration. I will probably get
>> another HD for a native Xubuntu install and skip the VBox on Win 8.1
>> layer altogether.
> 
> Setup a bootable USB jump drive instead, it's probably cheaper and
> easier. Okay, so technically I don't know of all the ways to make one
> (DistroWatch Weekly mentioned a few ways several months ago), but IIRC
> the latest Ubuntu actually recommends RUFUS (which is also well-known
> for supporting FreeDOS)!
> 
> A while back I had setup a Ubuntu 14.04 jump drive (with persistence),
> but it's fairly slow, so that may be a concern for you. But I don't
> think it has to be that way, I just don't have the time or energy to
> try billions of configurations.
I have decided (I think!) to involve the use of another HD (SSD) to get as much 
speed as possible.

> 
> antiX 13 was very good and lightning fast, and 16 was just released,
> so maybe you should try that instead, it's based upon Debian.
I'll have to look into that. Thanks!

> 
>> Side note: Since VBox was updated to 5.0.24 during this thread I decided
>> to try a new installation of FreeDOS with it but had the same problem.
> 
> If JEMMEX is your only problem, then you have no problems.
This idea has appeared before in this thread and it is a relief to hear it 
echoed. Perhaps a disclaimer like this is warranted in the Wiki install guide 
for new users like myself. (I had very limited exposure to DOS when it was 
mainstream so the idea of so many different memory modes has been overwhelming 
to learn suddenly.)

If a consensus can be reached, I would humbly submit the idea of swapping 
options 1 and 2 in the next release to give less emphasis to JEMMEX. As a new 
user, I naively thought that JEMMEX was the best/preferred option based on its 
ranking which may be intended. But under the example of VBox, it doesn't hold 
up. I think I have learned now that even though JEMMEX claims to do the same 
thing as option 2 in less memory by combining driver logic, option 2 really 
works better even if there is a slightly larger overhead. Option 2 certainly 
gives me more expanded memory (EMS). At least this seems to be the case in 
VBox. However, JEMMEX behaves just fine running under QEMU. So go figure. 
Perhaps the Wiki should push people towards QEMU on Linux rather than VBox on 
Windows.

Please correct me if I'm wrong or have missed something important.

Ok, back to you guys :)

> 
>>> But nothing beats running natively (on real hardware).
>> You're right about that. As Ulrich mentioned earlier, he uses screencas

Re: [Freedos-user] FreeBASIC status?

[Abe Mishler]

I see it is back up now. I had been doing some reading on the pros/cons of 
FreeBASIC vs QB64. Not looking to start a flame war here, but I had decided to 
invest some time with FreeBASIC when the site went down. I thought perhaps that 
was an early portent that I had picked the "wrong" compiler. I see that Black 
Annex is probably written with QB64 
(http://www.pcworld.com/article/2033318/black-annex-is-the-best-qbasic-game-youve-ever-seen.html).

Does anyone have any experience or tips working with the DOS version of 
FreeBASIC in FreeDOS that they'd like to share?

If not, thanks for humoring me this far in the thread.

Sincerely,
Abe

> On Jun 30, 2016, at 6:03 PM, Rugxulo <rugx...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>> On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 6:52 AM, Abe Mishler <a...@mishlerlabs.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Does anyone know the state of FreeBASIC? The site (http://freebasic.net)
>> has been down for at least 2 days now. Has the project been shuttered?
> 
> I'm not in the loop and haven't heard anything privately, but I know
> that I browsed there in the past week with no problems. Everything is
> still chugging along, AFAIK. So no, it's not anywhere near being
> abandoned. (IIRC, the project has been constantly improving since
> 2004.)
> 
> The most recent release was five months ago (which, all things
> considered, is quite a short gap, we don't need new releases every
> week). It's already been mirrored to iBiblio for us:
> 
> http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/devel/basic/freebasic/1.05.0/
> 
> Anything in particular you were looking for?
> 


--
Attend Shape: An AT Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT Park in San
Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries
present their vision of the future. This family event has something for
everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today.
http://sdm.link/attshape
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

[Freedos-user] FreeBASIC status?

[Abe Mishler]

Does anyone know the state of FreeBASIC? The site (http://freebasic.net) 
has been down for at least 2 days now. Has the project been shuttered?

Thanks,
Abe

--
Attend Shape: An AT Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT Park in San
Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries
present their vision of the future. This family event has something for
everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today.
http://sdm.link/attshape
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS 1.1 crashing in VirtualBox 5.0.22

[Abe Mishler]

Hi Rugxulo et al.,

On 6/29/2016 1:03 PM, Rugxulo wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 10:05 AM, Abe Mishler <a...@mishlerlabs.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 6/28/2016 7:55 PM, Rugxulo wrote:
>>>
>>> I would recommend you (also) test under QEMU if you're that worried or
>>> want (potentially) better stability.
>>>
>> QEMU, while about 10x slower (on Win 8.1 amd64 host), ran perfectly.
>> Thank you for the suggestion. Perhaps there are some optimizations that
>> I don't know about...
>
> Not sure about improving speed, esp. on Windows. There used to be
> kqemu for older versions (0.9.0?), but that's been discontinued.
>
On the page that you sent regarding QEMU Binaries for Windows, it says:
"QEMU for Windows is experimental software and might contain even 
serious bugs, so use the binaries at your own risk."

Since QEMU is more mature on linux right now, I installed Xubuntu 16.04 
LTS inside VirtualBox (5.0.24 now) and then QEMU inside of that. FreeDOS 
is much peppier inside of this configuration. I will probably get 
another HD for a native Xubuntu install and skip the VBox on Win 8.1 
layer altogether.

Side note: Since VBox was updated to 5.0.24 during this thread I decided 
to try a new installation of FreeDOS with it but had the same problem.

> Anyways, VBox itself is allegedly partially based upon QEMU, but it's

Yes, the VBox developer FAQ makes that claim:
https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Developer_FAQ

> not true that QEMU is always slower. At least one thing I was running
> was faster under QEMU (+ Linux) than VBox (+ Win7), even without VT-X.
> But that could be because of many different reasons. Using VT-X (which
> for QEMU means using KVM variant instead) obviously increases speed
> even further.
>
> But nothing beats running natively (on real hardware).
>
You're right about that. As Ulrich mentioned earlier, he uses screencast 
software to capture what he's doing. I'm interested in doing the same so 
I think FreeDOS in QEMU on linux is the way to go (for me, at this time).

Thanks to everyone for joining the discussion and sharing your knowledge 
with me. I learned a lot and consider my problem resolved. On to the next...

Best,
Abe

--
Attend Shape: An AT Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT Park in San
Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries
present their vision of the future. This family event has something for
everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today.
http://sdm.link/attshape
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS 1.1 crashing in VirtualBox 5.0.22

[Abe Mishler]

On 6/28/2016 7:55 PM, Rugxulo wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 3:55 PM, Abe Mishler <a...@mishlerlabs.com> wrote:
>>
>> Strange, right? And not just on one computer, but three separate ones; each
>> running different hardware and software (host OS). Although I would expect
>> that the underlying differences are abstracted away by VirtualBox.
>
> It's not really that strange. EMS is rarely used nowadays, and DOS (in
> all its billions of setups) isn't highly tested by emulators. Their
> focus is on other, more popular, guests.
>
> It's impossible (or maybe unprofitable) to test every emulator under
> the sun (dozens!), plus having to work around all the bugs and missing
> features. Some OSes present bigger problems than others (OS/2,
> OpenBSD), even requiring VT-X compatible hardware.
>
> I would recommend you (also) test under QEMU if you're that worried or
> want (potentially) better stability. At least Windows (32-bit or
> 64-bit) binaries are easily available below (not to mention that QEMU
> runs on various other host OSes too, e.g. Linux):
>
> http://qemu.weilnetz.de/
>
QEMU, while about 10x slower (on Win 8.1 amd64 host), ran perfectly. 
Thank you for the suggestion. Perhaps there are some optimizations that 
I don't know about...

> --
> Attend Shape: An AT Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT Park in San
> Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries
> present their vision of the future. This family event has something for
> everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today.
> http://sdm.link/attshape
> ___
> Freedos-user mailing list
> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>

--
Attend Shape: An AT Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT Park in San
Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries
present their vision of the future. This family event has something for
everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today.
http://sdm.link/attshape
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS 1.1 crashing in VirtualBox 5.0.22

[Abe Mishler]

Guys,

> On Jun 28, 2016, at 3:39 PM, Ulrich Hansen  wrote:
> 
> 
>> Am 28.06.2016 um 21:19 schrieb Ulrich Hansen :
>> 
>> The trick is to load PCNTPK low in option 1. Then it won’t crash with your 
>> JEMMEX options. At least for me. :-)
>> 
>> PCNTPK INT=0x60
> 
> Okay, and FDAPM crashes too. I need to load it into conventional memory as 
> well.
You are running a more advanced FreeDOS configuration than me at the moment. 
Mine is still a vanilla install. Nothing extra.
> 
> All in all it seems your configuration 
> 
>> 1?DEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\JEMMEX.EXE NOEMS X=C900-DFFF I=TEST NOVME NOINVLPG
> 
> 
> is pretty unstable, at least for me.
> 
It seems like you should be excluding a different region of memory. From your 
screenshot: E300-EDFF.

> But the default line didn’t work for you at all. Hmm.
Strange, right? And not just on one computer, but three separate ones; each 
running different hardware and software (host OS). Although I would expect that 
the underlying differences are abstracted away by VirtualBox.

> 
> 
> --
> Attend Shape: An AT Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT Park in San
> Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries
> present their vision of the future. This family event has something for
> everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today.
> http://sdm.link/attshape
> ___
> Freedos-user mailing list
> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
--
Attend Shape: An AT Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT Park in San
Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries
present their vision of the future. This family event has something for
everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today.
http://sdm.link/attshape___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS 1.1 crashing in VirtualBox 5.0.22

[Abe Mishler]

On 6/28/2016 11:08 AM, Eric Auer wrote:
>
> Hi Abe,
>
>> Based on Eric's suggestion of using more cautious settings,
>> I found the JEMMEX doc page
>> (http://help.fdos.org/en/hhstndrd/base/jemmex.htm)
>
> The documentation is also included in your installation on disk.
>
>> 1?DEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\JEMMEX.EXE NOEMS X=C900-DFFF I=TEST NOVME NOINVLPG
>
> You could also try X=TEST Without I=TEST, but excluding C900 to DFFF
> seems to be an even more cautious choice for your specific system.
>
Doing that results in an additional message before crashing so it looks 
like I will have to stick with the specific exclusion.

The additional message:
Warning: no suitable page frame found, EMS functions limited.

>> Boot option 1 no longer crashes, but it doesn't appear to be an
>> improvement over boot option 2...
>
> Option 2 loads SHARE and uses HIMEMX together with JEMM386 instead
> of JEMMEX which combines "HIMEM" and "EMM386" into a single driver.
> Option 2 also moves the PCNTPK network packet driver to UMB, which
> is why you have slightly more "largest executable program size" in
> option 2 compared to option 1 in spite of option 2 loading SHARE.
>
> You can try using LH for PCNTPK, but if you do not use internet in
> DOS, you could simply comment out the whole line that loads PCNTPK.
>
> If you only use EMS-aware software which is EMS 4.0 compatible,
> you can disable EMS 3.2 compatible page frames with some option
> for JEMMEX and JEMM386: That way, you get 64 kB extra space for
> UMB use, so it will be easier to LH things and gain low space.
>
> I think today EMM386 is more often used for UMB and less often
> for EMS. If you only use UMB but do not need EMS at all, you
> can also disable EMS 3.2 compatible page frames, of course :-)
>
>> Boot option 1 (http://tinypic.com/r/zm1boj/9): [JEMMEX]
>> Total memory Free: 26,699K
>> Total Expanded (EMS): 8,576K
>> Free Expanded (EMS): 8,192K
>> Largest executable program size: 597K
>> Largest free upper memory block: 2K
>
>> Boot option 2 (http://tinypic.com/r/2zzjl77/9): [HIMEMX+JEMM386]
>> Total memory Free: 26,669K
>> Total Expanded (EMS): 31M
>
> Interesting that JEMM386 defaults to offer more EMS than JEMMEX.
>
>> Free Expanded (EMS): 25M
>
> Odd, what happened to the other 6 MB of EMS?
>
I was wondering that myself...

>> Largest executable program size: 610K
>
> This is because that option loads SHARE & network drivers high.
>
>> Largest free upper memory block: 4K
>
> This is interesting: In spite of loading more things into UMB,
> you have more UMB left. That MIGHT mean that option 2 does not
> have the X=C900-DFFF option but still is lucky enough to avoid
> a crash? It could already be unstable, though. Maybe it would
> still crash as soon as you use the network in DOS.
>
Right, I didn't block that region in option 2. I used networking with 
option 2 to install the VBOX-FIX COM patch earlier. I didn't experience 
a crash. Perhaps I was "lucky". What's interesting is that there is no 
delay loading the UIDE driver so maybe Oracle has fixed the bus scan 
problem with VirtualBox rendering the patch unnecessary. Perhaps someone 
else can duplicate these results and confirm.

> ALSO, the option 2 takes the "dangerous" step of explicitly
> including the monochrome graphics card text memory area as
> UMB memory (I=B000-B7FF). This means that attempts to use a
> program which uses monochrome video modes may cause crashes.
> It could also be the real reason why more UMB is free there.
>
I was going to use option 2 even after all of this, but I will remain 
with option 1 now that it works; especially since you have indicated 
twice now that option 2 might be unstable. Thanks for that insight.

> I think that even 597 kB of low DOS memory is plenty for old
> DOS programs. New DOS programs use a DOS extender anyway, so
> they will be able to use your EMS and XMS, which are several
> megabytes. You can use other MEM command line options to see
> more details. Check the output of "MEM /?" to learn more :-)
>
> Regards, Eric
>
> PS: Do you use a special MOUSE or the usual CTMOUSE driver?
>
I have not installed a mouse driver or configured the mouse in any way. 
My AUTOEXEC.BAT has the standard "MOUSE" command in it.

> PPS: I see 1.1 uses XMGR in option 3 and 4DOS in option 4,
> not sure if those are included in the 1.2 distro any more.
>
For the record it looks like 4DOS is also in option 3, but thanks for 
the info. It's apparent that a well written book might help me come up 
to speed on all of these memory modes and managers. My interest is in 
programming anyways (I'm new to DOS but not programming). Any suggestions?
>
Thanks,
Abe

--
Attend Shape: An AT Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT Park in San
Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries
present their vision of the future. This family event has something for
everyone, including kids. Get more information 

Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS 1.1 crashing in VirtualBox 5.0.22

[Abe Mishler]

Hi Ulrich,

Thanks for the link. I compared the 2 files and didn't find anything of 
significance. Your change:

IF "%config%"=="2" PCNTPK INT=0x60
IF NOT "%config%"=="2" LH PCNTPK INT=0x60

seems smart, however.

Based on Eric's suggestion of using more cautious settings, I found the 
JEMMEX doc page
(http://help.fdos.org/en/hhstndrd/base/jemmex.htm)

and learned how to change the JEMMEX options. I excluded the region of 
memory that might already be in use (indicated in the original error 
message):
1?DEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\JEMMEX.EXE NOEMS X=C900-DFFF I=TEST NOVME NOINVLPG

Boot option 1 no longer crashes, but it doesn't appear to be an 
improvement over boot option 2. Here is what I am getting from C:\mem 
after boot:

Boot option 1 (http://tinypic.com/r/zm1boj/9):
Total memory Free: 26,699K
Total Expanded (EMS): 8,576K
Free Expanded (EMS): 8,192K
Largest executable program size: 597K
Largest free upper memory block: 2K

Boot option 2 (http://tinypic.com/r/2zzjl77/9):
Total memory Free: 26,669K
Total Expanded (EMS): 31M
Free Expanded (EMS): 25M
Largest executable program size: 610K
Largest free upper memory block: 4K

I don't have much experience with the way DOS memory works. What do you 
think of these results? Anything else I should be looking at?

Thanks,
Abe

On 6/27/2016 8:23 PM, Ulrich Hansen wrote:
> Hi Abe,
>
> if you like, take a look at:
>
> https://www.lazybrowndog.net/freedos/virtualbox
>
> There are three VirtualBox images of FreeDOS 1.1.
>
> I put quite some effort in them to make them work. I remember the crash
> you are talking about, but, sorry, I don’t remember how I fixed it
> (wasn’t it something about not loading high something?? Very sorry.
> Maybe you compare the AUTOEXEC.BAT and FDCONFIG.SYS of the FreeDOS 1.1
> VirtualBox image?
>
> -
> AUTOEXEC.BAT
>
> @echo off
> SET LANG=EN
> SET MTCPCFG=C:\FDOS\MTCP.CFG
> SET WATTCP.CFG=C:\FDOS
> SET PATH=%dosdir%\BIN;C:\DOSZIP
> SET NLSPATH=%dosdir%\NLS
> SET HELPPATH=%dosdir%\HELP
> SET TEMP=%dosdir%\TEMP
> SET TMP=%TEMP%
> SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330
> SET DIRCMD=/P /OGN /4
> SET COPYCMD=/-Y
> if "%config%"=="4" goto end
> SHSUCDX /QQ /D3
> LH SHSUCDHD /QQ /F:FDBOOTCD.ISO
> LH FDAPM APMDOS
> IF "%config%"=="2" LH SHARE
> LH DOSLFN
> REM NLSFUNC C:\FDOS\BIN\COUNTRY.SYS
> REM DISPLAY CON=(EGA),858,2)
> REM MODE CON CP PREP=((858) C:\FDOS\CPI\EGA.CPX)
> REM KEYB US,858,C:\FDOS\bin\keyboard.sys
> REM KEYB GR,,keyboard.sys /NOHI
> REM CHCP 858
> IF "%config%"=="2" PCNTPK INT=0x60
> IF NOT "%config%"=="2" LH PCNTPK INT=0x60
> DHCP
> REM M2WAT.COM  transfers the mTCP configuration to
> WATTCP.CFG.
> REM Disable it, if you want to use a custom WATTCP.CFG.
> C:\FDOS\M2WAT.COM 
> MOUSE
> DEVLOAD /H /Q %dosdir%\BIN\UIDE.SYS /H /D:FDCD0001 /S5
> SHSUCDX /QQ /~ /D:?SHSU-CDR,D /D:?SHSU-CDH,D /D:?FDCD0001,D
> /D:?FDCD0002,D /D:?FDCD0003,D
> MEM /C /N
> IF NOT "%config%"=="4" SHSUCDX /D
> GOTO END
> :END
> SET AUTOFILE=%0
> SET CFGFILE=C:\FDCONFIG.SYS
> alias reboot=fdapm warmboot
> alias reset=fdisk /reboot
> alias halt=fdapm poweroff
> alias shutdown=fdapm poweroff
> alias cfg=edit %cfgfile%
> alias auto=edit %0
> echo Done processing startup files %cfgfile% and %0
> echo Type HELP to get support on commands and navigation
> echo.
> echo Welcome to the FreeDOS 1.1 operating system (http://www.freedos.org)
>
>
> -
> FDCONFIG.SYS
>
> !COUNTRY=001,858,C:\FDOS\BIN\COUNTRY.SYS
> !SET DOSDIR=C:\FDOS
> !LASTDRIVE=Z
> !BUFFERS=20
> !FILES=40
> !MENUCOLOR=7,0
> MENUDEFAULT=1,5
> MENU 1 - Load FreeDOS with JEMMEX, no EMS (most UMBs), max RAM free
> MENU 2 - Load FreeDOS with EMM386 (Expanded Memory) and SHARE loaded
> MENU 3 - Load FreeDOS including XMGR XMS-memory driver
> MENU 4 - Load FreeDOS without drivers
> 123?DOS=HIGH
> 12?DOS=UMB
> 12?DOSDATA=UMB
> 1?DEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\JEMMEX.EXE NOEMS X=TEST I=TEST NOVME NOINVLPG
> 2?DEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\HIMEMX.EXE
> 2?DEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\JEMM386.EXE X=TEST I=TEST I=B000-B7FF NOVME NOINVLPG
> 3?DEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\XMGR.SYS
> 3?SHELL=C:\FDOS\bin\4dos.com  C:\FDOS\bin /E:1024
> /P:C:\AUTOEXEC.BAT
> 4?SHELL=C:\FDOS\BIN\COMMAND.COM  C:\FDOS\BIN /E:1024
> /P=C:\AUTOEXEC.BAT
> 12?SHELLHIGH=C:\FDOS\BIN\COMMAND.COM  C:\FDOS\BIN
> /E:1024 /P=C:\AUTOEXEC.BAT
>
>
> --
> Attend Shape: An AT Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT Park in San
> Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries
> present their vision of the future. This family event has something for
> everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today.
> http://sdm.link/attshape
>
>
>
> ___
> Freedos-user mailing list
> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> 

Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS 1.1 crashing in VirtualBox 5.0.22

[Abe Mishler]

Eric,

Thanks for your time and attention. See my responses inline.

On 6/27/2016 3:05 PM, Eric Auer wrote:
>
> Hi Abe,
>
>> upon bootup and selecting option 1, I get the following message:
>>
>> JemmEx v5.75 [05/21/11]
>> System memory found at c900-dfff, region might be in use
>> JemmEx loaded
>> Kernel: allocated 46 Diskbuffers = 24472 Bytes in HMA
>>
>> after which nothing ever happens. It hangs permanently.
>
> This means that JEMMEX (EMM386) tried to allocate UMB but
> predicted troubles. Soon after that, DOS does indeed hang.
> I suggest to select a boot option without JEMMEX instead.
>
I understood JEMMEX to be the preferred option. Yes, the other boot 
options all work.

> Alternatively, you could change the JEMMEX options in your
> config.sys to more cautious settings regarding UMB areas.
> Then you get at least some UMB and thus more free DOS RAM.
>
Can you point me in the direction of a good resource where I could learn 
about adjusting the JEMMEX options/settings?

Why are the JEMMEX defaults not set to work with a 
fresh install? Or does it work for most people, and my 3 computers just 
happen to all not work?

>> I don't believe this is related to the UIDE driver...
>
> It is possible that the same memory area where JEMMEX tries
> to allocate UMB is also in use for disk, network or UMB I/O
> buffers of your virtual hardware... So it is possible that a
> crash is more likely with UIDE (more modern disk I/O) but a
> better solution compared to avoiding UIDE would be to select
> more cautious JEMMEX options regarding that memory region.
>
Perhaps I should allocate more than 32MB of RAM to avoid this collision? 
I will try that too.

>> Boot options 2,3,4 all work without issue.
>
> What are the names of boot options 1, 2, 3 and 4 respectively?
>
They are the stock options found in the C:\FDCONFIG.SYS file:

1 - Load FreeDOS with JEMMEX, no EMS (most UMBs), max RAM free
2 - Load FreeDOS with EMM386 (Expanded Memory) and SHARE loaded
3 - Load FreeDOS including XMGR XMS-memory driver
4 - Load FreeDOS without drivers

I have not altered C:\FDCONFIG.SYS.

> Regards, Eric
>
Thanks again
>
>
> --
> Attend Shape: An AT Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT Park in San
> Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries
> present their vision of the future. This family event has something for
> everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today.
> http://sdm.link/attshape
> ___
> Freedos-user mailing list
> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>

--
Attend Shape: An AT Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT Park in San
Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries
present their vision of the future. This family event has something for
everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today.
http://sdm.link/attshape
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

[Freedos-user] FreeDOS 1.1 crashing in VirtualBox 5.0.22

[Abe Mishler]

Dear List,

I've attempted to install FreeDOS 1.1 using VirtualBox 5.0.22 on 3 
different machines with 3 different operating systems: (Macbook Pro 
(10.11.5), Windows 8.1 Home, and Windows 10 Pro). On each system, upon 
bootup and selecting option 1, I get the following message:

JemmEx v5.75 [05/21/11]
System memory found at c900-dfff, region might be in use
JemmEx loaded
Kernel: allocated 46 Diskbuffers = 24472 Bytes in HMA

after which nothing ever happens. It hangs permanently. I don't believe 
this is related to the UIDE driver as suggested in the installation Wiki 
pages because of where it freezes. Regardless, I installed the VBOX-FIX 
COM patch on the Windows 10 Pro setup and it didn't solve the problem.

Boot options 2,3,4 all work without issue.

Has anyone else run into this? Your help in understanding (& fixing!) 
this is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Abe

--
Attend Shape: An AT Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT Park in San
Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries
present their vision of the future. This family event has something for
everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today.
http://sdm.link/attshape
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user