I'm stepping in quite late to answer one of John's questions. He asserted
that what I see is what enters my eyes and what you see is what enters your
eyes, and therefore we never really see the same thing. (I am
paraphrasing, obviously.)
I would assert that we are in is a place where plain
Steve claimed that we could use the Turing test to tell if we met
consciousness in a dark alley. I think, by Nick's earlier assertion, that
is begging the question. Nick asserted that if Humans are conscious mad
sense as an empirical claim, it must have been the case that our
definitions of human
John,
So, in a snapshot I think A conscious system and a non conscious one
could be physically identical, however, I think it would be disingenuous
to say that we could not tell them apart through interaction over time.
This issue is not whether or not it is easy, but merely whether it is
Eric,
As I understand it, Dennett's position and Chalmers' are not only incompatible,
their difference is more extreme than one simply being the denial of the other.
Dennett says that a zombie is simply impossible. If we tried to create a
computer that could think like a human, it would be
Hey, wait a minute, guys! You have lost me. What is this consciousness
of which you speak. I am not sure I have one and I need you to describe it
to me in a way that I can recognize it.
N
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
Hey, wait a minute, guys! You have lost me. What is this consciousness
of which you speak. I am not sure I have one and I need you to describe it
to me in a way that I can recognize it.
No you don't... and if you don't know that, then you are not a truly
conscious being, but rather a clever
Rebuttal by shame! If you have to ask you can't afford it.
-- rec --
On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 10:29 AM, Steve Smith sasm...@swcp.com wrote:
Hey, wait a minute, guys! You have lost me. What is this consciousness
of which you speak. I am not sure I have one and I need you to describe
it
Rebuttal by shame! If you have to ask you can't afford it.
grin you saw right through me!
-- rec --
On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 10:29 AM, Steve Smith sasm...@swcp.com
mailto:sasm...@swcp.com wrote:
Hey, wait a minute, guys! You have lost me. What is this
consciousness
But you are nonetheless correct. All this reminds me of the old joke: A
skeptic asks God, How do I know that I exist? God replies, And who is
asking?
Frank
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz
Santa Fe, NM 87505
mailto:wimber...@gmail.com wimber...@gmail.com
So, now we move to the next step of the argument:
On what basis do any of you confidently assert that I am conscious when I
say I am not?
Nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
My current ancient ios iphone 4s is finally on its last legs. So I'm
looking to decide between the new iPhone 6 reportedly available next month
the various android devices. My ecology is basically google, so android
would be preferred from that standpoint.
So, this popped up in a newsletter:
If you say you are not conscious, I defer to your superior knowledge of the
subject (you).
Frank
P.s. Nick and I have been through this argument before.
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Phone
(505) 670--9918
On Aug 24, 2014 11:43 AM, Nick Thompson nickthomp...@earthlink.net
wrote:
So, now we move
Nick,
Consciousness is a term that is discussed by philosophers. If you don't have
one you have proved half of Chalmers' position that it is possible for zombies
(humans who lack this mysterious thing called consciousness) to exist. Th other
half of Chalmers' position is that conscious humans
In case anyone cares, the argument ends like this: I am forced into the
extreme, but unassailable, position that I have consciousness as I
conceptualize it but that I can't demonstrate that anyone or anything else
has it. Nick's conclusion, I think, is that certain entities have an
illusion that
Owen sed:
My current ancient ios iphone 4s is finally on its last legs.
And here I feel like my iPhone 4 is downright brandy new! I've only
immersed it and tore it down twice so far... It's got at least one more
good dunking in it! And despite my most fierce attempts, the gorilla
glass *is*
I guess the question boils down to how you respond to challenges about
philosophical zombies. These discussions normally begin with someone
asserting You can imagine things that behave exactly like you and I in all
ways, but not conscious. The presenter then goes on to lay out a series of
Good observations. I'm also interested in the phablets so am hoping the
(presumed) larger iPhone6 at 5.5 inches might be interesting. Had a long
chat at Friam with a Note 3 in hand, and it sure is a different experience
than the large phones. Let us know what you find out.
-- Owen
On Sun,
I think your answer to that question is the only one possible under your
epistemology.
But then, given that I DO all the things that I do, “you” (in the non-adhominem
sense) lose the ability to infer from some entity doing conscious-ish sorts of
things that such entities are conscious,
John,
Well, actually my position is not that I am not conscious, but that your
operating definition of consciousness has little to do with anybody's answer
to the question Are you conscious? and everything to do with patterns of
doing. Frank is the only participant in this argument who
I may be unwinding here, but now I must contradict my assertion a moment ago
that your position is consistent. Despite your definition of consciousness,
your surely behave as if Ginger is conscious, do you not? So, while you are
consistent with in accepting that your definition excludes me
On 8/24/2014 1:30 PM, Eric Smith wrote:
The discussion of perpetual motion machines just provides an example
where the anal-retentive can dot the i's and cross the t's to verify
that it is indeed possible to make statements in which one does not
know what one is talking about.
I'm torn:
On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 2:59 PM, Robert Holmes rob...@robertholmes.org
wrote:
On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Owen Densmore o...@backspaces.net
wrote:
My current ancient ios iphone 4s is finally on its last legs.
That's the iphone 4s that came out in Octiober 2011? i.e. less than 3
Nick,
Yes, I think Ginger (dog) has consciousness and I behave as if she does.
She declines to discuss it.
I don't exclude you from consciousness I just defer to your assertion that
you don't have it. You behave as if you have it but how can I contradict
your claim that you don't?
You say
Nick,
I hope that most people will give the answer yes to the question of whether I
am conscious. I don't think of the criterion I gave as an operating definition
--I don't claim it is useful in that way. It's sort of like trying to figure
out whether someone did something deliberately. The
Hi, John,
I think a third person definition of doing something deliberately would
come very close to what I mean by self-conscious. (What we call self
consciousness in ordinary language usually refers to being conscious of
somebody else being conscious of what we are doing.) So, I see promise
On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Tom Johnson t...@jtjohnson.com wrote:
Given your Italian travel, be sure to check out the deals at T-mobile.
I can talk to that. I got a Note 3 on T-mobile precisely because of the
international data for when I travel to the UK. I learned the hard way that
you
I am able to scale up my international data service to something like 25g
p/month for US$10. Or at least I was last January/February.
-tj
Tom Johnson
Institute for Analytic Journalism -- Santa Fe, NM USA
505.577.6482(c)
The question for me is not whether one knows what one is talking about in
the sense of has the knowledge to speak wisely on the subject at hand. I
assume that all people have enough knowledge to speak wisely about
consciousness. What puzzles me is that many speakers ... perhaps most ...
never
I am willing to speak about definitions of consciousness or self-consciousness
or deliberateness that depend on metaphysical assumptions and to speak of
operating definitions that do not depend on these assumptions.
From: Friam [friam-boun...@redfish.com]
On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 11:43:31AM -0600, Owen Densmore wrote:
I did ask an android friend at Friam how he deletes apps on his phone. He
couldn't delete the ones we tried, basically samsung built-in annoyances.
Anyone know how?
-- Owen
I recently went through this exercise. Those
Eric S.,
This is excellent! I think you capture the place of the naive
conversationalist quite well.
The next step, I think, is to move towards Orwell / Peirce. Peirce would
assert, I think, that the question is more than JUST a language game, and
Orwell would assert, I think, a bit of a moral
re deleting apps.
apps you install and some pre installed apps uninstall easily, using the
app manager or google play.
some bundled apps are cooked into the OS when it is compiled. so to the OS
they look like system apps, which can not be removed by your user-level
access.
to remove these one
Marcus sed:
/I'm torn: Nihilism or Constructor Theory? :-) /
Very nice work...
http://constructortheory.org/
Seems like it goes hand-in-glove with Stu's /Adjacent Possible/s ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zeT2npYf18
33 matches
Mail list logo
