Re: [FRIAM] DEBATE about Religion and Atheism - modeling

2012-10-01 Thread glen
Sarbajit Roy wrote at 09/30/2012 10:28 AM: The Gita, however, (as I'm fairly sure the Old Testament does too) expresses that once a man's side is determined, he is obliged by DUTY to do what is right, even if it involves heinous killings on a massive scale or even the killing of his close

Re: [FRIAM] DEBATE about Religion and Atheism - modeling

2012-10-01 Thread Prof David West
I hesitate to jump in as I was taught the Bhavagad Gita by a professor/translator, not my mother or my local guru. But, as I was taught ... duty has almost nothing to do with the philosophical lesson of the story. Arjuna's dilemma is not between kill and not kill, or deciding between two

Re: [FRIAM] DEBATE about Religion and Atheism - modeling

2012-10-01 Thread glen
The only way I can imagine detachment being a form of attachment would be that both attachment and detachment are limited to _partial_ [de|at]tachment. I.e. non-attachment must be some sort of singularity approachable from either direction.

Re: [FRIAM] DEBATE about Religion and Atheism - modeling

2012-10-01 Thread Russ Abbott
Think of attachment as: I must ensure that X comes to pass. I want it so badly. Think of detachment as: I must not want so badly that X comes to pass. I must stay detached. Think of non-attachment as: I may participate in the process whereby X comes to pass -- or doesn't come to pass. If I

Re: [FRIAM] DEBATE about Religion and Atheism - modeling

2012-10-01 Thread Carl Tollander
It's sort of like being cool. If you act like you're cool, and go around telling yourself how cool you are, you're not cool. If you care about whether or not you're cool, you're not cool. So if you get invested in how much you're not caring about whether or not you're cool, you're still not

[FRIAM] poliitcs

2012-10-01 Thread Joseph Spinden
FWIW: I have read several interesting books lately that might be of interest to some on this list: Democracy Lost, by Lawrence Lessig, Harvard Law professor - the corrupting influence of money on Washington The Price of Inequality, by Joseph Stiglitz, Nobel Laureate in Economics - the

Re: [FRIAM] DEBATE about Religion and Atheism - modeling

2012-10-01 Thread Sarbajit Roy
Attachment / de-attachment / non-attachment etc are distractions from the 2 paths A) The path of self knowledge for people on the threshhold of enlightenment. B) The path of selfless service for the others. I can't really explain these things because of language and societal differences. Most

Re: [FRIAM] DEBATE about Religion and Atheism - modeling

2012-10-01 Thread Sarbajit Roy
Hi David The only place I would somewhat differ with your analysis is on the accrual of Karma. My own view is that Gita refers to 2 control loops The Outer (slower / higher) Loop is on semi-attached Ethical evolved norms. Analogous to a Voltage loop There is a faster Inner Loop acting on

[FRIAM] attachment

2012-10-01 Thread Russ Abbott
I liked my post on attachment. (Perhaps I'm attached to it.) Did it get lost? I don't see it in any of the follow-up posts. Here it is again. Think of attachment as: I must ensure that X comes to pass. I want it so badly. Think of detachment as: I must not want so badly that X comes to pass. I