Re: [FRIAM] @fakedonaldtrump

[Gillian Densmore]

No. I agree. The way the do their videos is...yeah Max Hedroom 20 minutes
into future. CyberPunk meets MadMax.  In a documentary about them they use
a computer to read a script so as to protect the crew. I totally respect
that. Part of that is because how they work is murky legal water. The other
part was because  a few of their opts went sideways such as  calling out
the ScienTologists for being a trolling cult...it went down hill pretty
quickly. So now they (try to) stay more anonymous using stylised
maxhedroomy videos with a computer reading text.
One of there was on some extremist  netoworking, and their leaders who they
promissed to forward any and all info they could to the proper authortese.
Now their taking on the extremists here. (some) of that info has lead
banks, business etc to refuse to deel with those trolls. Their also taking
down flags and statues of as Arnold Swartzinager put it "epicaly failed
idiologies of xenophobia, rage, and hate."  Theyre members have been
replacing those symbols with goofy art, or cleaning  the buildings and just
removing the grafiti.




On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 2:46 PM, Steven A Smith  wrote:

> Gil -
>
> Thanks for the reference to Anonymous@YouTube.   You can tell I'm an old
> fogey by my irritable reaction to the style of their videos.  I felt like
> it was created by/for Max Headroom!
>
> I HAVE watched one or two before (over a year ago?) with the same
> reaction.   I have a natural (Ithink) mixed reaction to their
> bluff/threats... what was that about contacting people in Lagos, Nigeria?
> I didn't think Anonymous were prone to threatening IRL violence, but rather
> stayed with what I think of as "targeted vandalism" in cyberspace?
>
> I'm also (still) confused about how there can ever be a single true voice
> for such a by-definition amorphous and distributed and ultimately defined
> only by self-definition group?Some aspects of their nature/behaviour
> feels a bit too much like the alt.right they are (in this moment) going up
> against.
>
> - Steve
> On 8/18/17 2:02 PM, Gillian Densmore wrote
>
> Anonymous has been posting videos on youtube sugesting people put aside
> the petty bickering. Making sugestion what things people can do to empower
> themselves. Their current call to arms is about (weirdly) love and joy and
> getting rid of washinton as it currently is and try for something like a
> Sociliast Republic/Technorocracy.
> They're pretty tired of the sheer rage coming in and out of washington if
> the videos are anything to go by.
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 12:22 PM, Marcus Daniels 
> wrote:
>
>> “While I feel very nervous about Twitter shutting down theDonald's
>> personal account
>> so cavalierly, I can imagine how devastating it would be to his ego to
>> not be able to
>> blurt out his nonsense at all times of the day or night without benefit
>> of counsel by
>> his (admittedly highly flawed) inner circle/counsel.  Moving the same
>> blurts to @POTUS
>> might be all it would achieve, which might enhance the absurdity yet more?
>> ”
>>
>> While I like the idea of his continued self-sabotage, his pronouncements
>> probably keep a part of the base stoked.
>>
>> If his accounts were to go away, those folks might not have the
>> initiative to replace that outlet with another.   And then they could get
>> back to torturing animals or whatever it is they do all day.
>>
>> The ACLU new policy to not support armed groups seems like a good step.
>> There are other groups like the SPLC that can tackle the haters.   I hope
>> that if his rhetoric continues this way, and he repeatedly violates their
>> terms of services, that they do shut him down completely.  He can go on Fox
>> and Friends or something.
>>
>> Marcus
>>
>>
>> 
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>>
>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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>
>
>
> 
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>

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Re: [FRIAM] @fakedonaldtrump

[Marcus Daniels]

"When the Trump Rally started in the markets (January?)"


a.k.a. the Obama trend..


[cid:71b6b327-44b6-481e-85c2-37d19013bd43]


From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> on behalf of Steven A Smith 
<sasm...@swcp.com>
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 6:57:45 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] @fakedonaldtrump

Well said (as usual).

 >Pedestrian black humor is very irritating. But when it's done right,
it carries just the right balance of poignancy and
 >banality. In contrast, tag clouds are antiseptic and devoid of any
humanity.
> There is no "there" there. There is only posturing and marketing. So,
> what better to understand Trump, *but* tools for marketing?



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Re: [FRIAM] @fakedonaldtrump

[Steven A Smith]

Marcus -

Thus, it is not a necessarily a good sign when someone that has to 
make people cooperate takes a direct approach.  It may just show that 
they lack the memory and patience to turn over all the necessary rocks 
and think about how they relate before taking action.



Thus: *"< *Give him credit or not"

I never have given him any credit for this feature, but I do believe 
many do, and I do understand that this is a powerful mode of being in 
(too) many people.   It is the default *I* go to when *deeply* cornered, 
which suggests to me that our disaffected "populist" portion of his base 
were acting out of some kind of fear, ready to gulp down any Snake Oil 
offered up to allay the very fear said Snake Oil Purveyor was whipping 
up in the crowd.  They should be choking on that Snake Oil anytime if 
they aren't already.


As frightening as I find many of our current events, I pull out my 
Pollyanna persona to protect me from joining the mob (or the anti-mob) 
simply because I am too frightened to keep looking for better solutions.


I had a much more Cynical persona that gave me relief from fear when I 
(first) voted for Reagan, then (second) saw the error of my ways and 
withdrew significantly from political interests for 20 years.


I'm balancing this habit/nature to be stampeded by fear into acting 
foolishly against Edmund Burkes' admonition:
/The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do 
nothing./


It feels to me that more and more good men (and women) are doing 
*something* even in the face of bodily harm.  I think that many of these 
people have thoughtfully turned over many rocks before acting.  As 
tedious as that process can be and as much as it feels like it puts one 
at a disadvantage against those who have no trouble acting in a knee 
jerk fashion,  I want to believe it is a more viable strategy in the 
long run.


When the Trump Rally started in the markets (January?), I pulled way 
back mainly because I did not want to profit from his bad acting and 
those who are finding profit in his bad actions.   I believe now that 
this bubble is ready to collapse and the vanguard of that collapse might 
be others who see the injustice in profiting from war, xenophobia, 
science-denial, etc. if not simply those with enough self-interest 
(enlightened or not) to flee before the ship sinks to a new bottom.   It 
may still take impeachment proceedings or criminal charges to kick the 
stool out from under this propped up mess, but that will just make it 
fall harder.


Hope springs infernal,
 - Steve



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Re: [FRIAM] @fakedonaldtrump

[Steven A Smith]

Well said (as usual).

>Pedestrian black humor is very irritating. But when it's done right, 
it carries just the right balance of poignancy and
>banality. In contrast, tag clouds are antiseptic and devoid of any 
humanity.
There is no "there" there. There is only posturing and marketing. So, 
what better to understand Trump, *but* tools for marketing? 




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Re: [FRIAM] @fakedonaldtrump

[gⅼеɳ]

On 08/18/2017 01:24 PM, Steven A Smith wrote:
>> https://www.csc2.ncsu.edu/faculty/healey/tweet_viz/tweet_app/
> 15 minutes with this make me painfully aware of how much I'm not in tune with 
> twitter culture... the tool seems pretty well made, but I found myself having 
>  a hard time drawing meaningful conclusions (aside from looking for 
> confirmation bias artifacts to glom onto)... the drilldown I did do made me 
> realize that the pleasant/unpleasant axis wasn't what I thought it would be.  
>  The system doesn't seem to take into account (double?) negatives?   Someone 
> railing positively about taking Trump down appears to contribute to the 
> quad-chart plot in roughly the same way as one praising him.

Sentiment analysis is a strange thing.  What's the "law"? ... Is it Poe's Law?  
Good satire is indistinguishable from authenticity?  Or something like that.  
One can adopt a very positive *affect* about very negative things.  Given your 
admission that you find morbid things fascinating, I thought replying with 
sentiment analysis would be appropriate.

Personally, I find black humor is poised on a very thin edge, which makes those 
who are good at it geniuses.  It's the same with sarcasm and snark.  Pedestrian 
black humor is very irritating.  But when it's done right, it carries just the 
right balance of poignancy and banality.  In contrast, tag clouds are 
antiseptic and devoid of any humanity.
>> Here are some other tools:
>> https://blog.bufferapp.com/free-twitter-tools
> I tried to dig in a little but as I felt frustrated by the implied bias in 
> the nature of the tools I realized the list was labeled as "for Marketing" 
> which (with my own bias) seems to be what most social media tools exist for, 
> to make us all in to better (more malleable?) consumers.

Ahhh.  But "branding" is the Trumpian essence.  Trump is nothing *but* a brand. 
 And, as our psych friends keep telling us, his narcissistic tendencies reflect 
that.  There is no "there" there.  There is only posturing and marketing.  So, 
what better to understand Trump, *but* tools for marketing?

-- 
gⅼеɳ


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Re: [FRIAM] @fakedonaldtrump

[Marcus Daniels]

Steve writes:

< Give him credit or not, he's been willing to take on lots of 
groups/subcultures fairly head-on (and many more smarmily obliquely... like the 
LGBT/Latino/Black/??? communities) >

Speaking as person who deals with things head-on more than it ever benefits me, 
I would say that my willingness to do that doesn't usually lead to anyone else 
being willing to do that.  One might hope that by breaking the ice other people 
would stop the B.S. and get to the bottom of things.   However, politicians 
(and many people) see any overt offering of information in social terms.  They 
first ask, "How does this information create an opportunity or a risk for me?"  
Only secondarily do they examine the content of information and arguments.  
Thus, it is not a necessarily a good sign when someone that has to make people 
cooperate takes a direct approach.  It may just show that they lack the memory 
and patience to turn over all the necessary rocks and think about how they 
relate before taking action.

Marcus


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Re: [FRIAM] @fakedonaldtrump

[Steven A Smith]

Gil -

Thanks for the reference to Anonymous@YouTube.   You can tell I'm an old 
fogey by my irritable reaction to the style of their videos.  I felt 
like it was created by/for Max Headroom!


I HAVE watched one or two before (over a year ago?) with the same 
reaction.   I have a natural (Ithink) mixed reaction to their 
bluff/threats... what was that about contacting people in Lagos, 
Nigeria?  I didn't think Anonymous were prone to threatening IRL 
violence, but rather stayed with what I think of as "targeted vandalism" 
in cyberspace?


I'm also (still) confused about how there can ever be a single true 
voice for such a by-definition amorphous and distributed and ultimately 
defined only by self-definition group?Some aspects of their 
nature/behaviour feels a bit too much like the alt.right they are (in 
this moment) going up against.


- Steve

On 8/18/17 2:02 PM, Gillian Densmore wrote
Anonymous has been posting videos on youtube sugesting people put 
aside the petty bickering. Making sugestion what things people can do 
to empower themselves. Their current call to arms is about (weirdly) 
love and joy and getting rid of washinton as it currently is and try 
for something like a Sociliast Republic/Technorocracy.
They're pretty tired of the sheer rage coming in and out of washington 
if the videos are anything to go by.



On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 12:22 PM, Marcus Daniels > wrote:


“While I feel very nervous about Twitter shutting down theDonald's
personal account
so cavalierly, I can imagine how devastating it would be to his
ego to not be able to
blurt out his nonsense at all times of the day or night without
benefit of counsel by
his (admittedly highly flawed) inner circle/counsel. Moving the
same blurts to @POTUS
might be all it would achieve, which might enhance the absurdity
yet more?”

While I like the idea of his continued self-sabotage, his
pronouncements probably keep a part of the base stoked.

If his accounts were to go away, those folks might not have the
initiative to replace that outlet with another.   And then they
could get back to torturing animals or whatever it is they do all day.

The ACLU new policy to not support armed groups seems like a good
step.   There are other groups like the SPLC that can tackle the
haters.   I hope that if his rhetoric continues this way, and he
repeatedly violates their terms of services, that they do shut him
down completely.  He can go on Fox and Friends or something.

Marcus



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Re: [FRIAM] @fakedonaldtrump

[Steven A Smith]

Marcus -



While I like the idea of his continued self-sabotage, his 
pronouncements probably keep a part of the base stoked.


I do understand that and agree that this channel is a significantly 
powerful/focused one for his fringe/base.


If his accounts were to go away, those folks might not have the 
initiative to replace that outlet with another.


It does appear that his base(s) is (are) a mob in the sense that most of 
them provide the energy of their (self) righteous indignation and not 
much focus or initiative which then helps to leverage the effective 
power of a very few (pseudo?) charismatic self-appointed leaders.


  And then they could get back to torturing animals or whatever it is 
they do all day.


Sadly this is one of my worries.  To realize the number of people who 
rose up to support theDonald once he got some momentum, it makes me 
worry that we were (are) collectively more ill than I appreciated.  One 
of the things I find hopeful about Trumps Ascendency is that all of this 
is out in the open and it can be addressed (to a minor degree) by those 
closest to these people. LIke the Fargo family.


The ACLU new policy to not support armed groups seems like a good 
step.   There are other groups like the SPLC that can tackle the haters.




  I hope that if his rhetoric continues this way, and he repeatedly 
violates their terms of services, that they do shut him down 
completely.  He can go on Fox and Friends or something.


I admit to not having a clue what is in the Twitter TOS, having signed 
up in a moment of curiosity/weakness nearly 8 years ago...  I don't use 
it and for the most part serves me little if at all in any other way.   
It WOULD be interesting to see Twitter take Trump on head-on,   I 
suspect it might be a significant breaking of a dam made of his audacity 
in the face of propriety.


Give him credit or not, he's been willing to take on lots of 
groups/subcultures fairly head-on (and many more smarmily obliquely... 
like the LGBT/Latino/Black/??? communities)


- Steve

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Re: [FRIAM] @fakedonaldtrump

[Steven A Smith]

Glen -

This is interesting if you type in "trump":
https://www.csc2.ncsu.edu/faculty/healey/tweet_viz/tweet_app/
15 minutes with this make me painfully aware of how much I'm not in tune 
with twitter culture... the tool seems pretty well made, but I found 
myself having  a hard time drawing meaningful conclusions (aside from 
looking for confirmation bias artifacts to glom onto)... the drilldown I 
did do made me realize that the pleasant/unpleasant axis wasn't what I 
thought it would be.   The system doesn't seem to take into account 
(double?) negatives?   Someone railing positively about taking Trump 
down appears to contribute to the quad-chart plot in roughly the same 
way as one praising him.  The tag clouds were in some way more 
interesting to me, but I'm not sure why.


Here are some other tools:
https://blog.bufferapp.com/free-twitter-tools
I tried to dig in a little but as I felt frustrated by the implied bias 
in the nature of the tools I realized the list was labeled as "for 
Marketing" which (with my own bias) seems to be what most social media 
tools exist for, to make us all in to better (more malleable?) consumers.

It irritates me to no end when we call password guessing or phishing "hacking".  The concept of 
hacking is rich and calling those banal techniques "hacking" does the concept an injustice.  That 
password guessing stuff isn't even worthy of the word "cracking".  Now, if someone pulled a 
man-in-the-middle and reconstructed the packets to find a password, *that* would be worthy.
I agree in principle, with your examples being at best, fairly lame 
"social hacks".   I'm guessing that the amorphous mass of "Anonymous 
Hacktivists" are mostly very lame technically... but perhaps useful when 
recruited for DOS attacks by someone with a target and a voice.  There 
must be a FEW heavy hitters self-identified with that crowd?  It seems 
like the best thing anyone could do IF they guessed or phished passwords 
from the likes of DJT and his motley crue would be to publish them (not 
to abuse them, just to expose what kind of dumbass passwords they choose!?)

   Get off my iLawn!






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Re: [FRIAM] @fakedonaldtrump

[Gillian Densmore]

Anonymous has been posting videos on youtube sugesting people put aside the
petty bickering. Making sugestion what things people can do to empower
themselves. Their current call to arms is about (weirdly) love and joy and
getting rid of washinton as it currently is and try for something like a
Sociliast Republic/Technorocracy.
They're pretty tired of the sheer rage coming in and out of washington if
the videos are anything to go by.


On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 12:22 PM, Marcus Daniels 
wrote:

> “While I feel very nervous about Twitter shutting down theDonald's
> personal account
> so cavalierly, I can imagine how devastating it would be to his ego to not
> be able to
> blurt out his nonsense at all times of the day or night without benefit of
> counsel by
> his (admittedly highly flawed) inner circle/counsel.  Moving the same
> blurts to @POTUS
> might be all it would achieve, which might enhance the absurdity yet more?
> ”
>
> While I like the idea of his continued self-sabotage, his pronouncements
> probably keep a part of the base stoked.
>
> If his accounts were to go away, those folks might not have the initiative
> to replace that outlet with another.   And then they could get back to
> torturing animals or whatever it is they do all day.
>
> The ACLU new policy to not support armed groups seems like a good step.
> There are other groups like the SPLC that can tackle the haters.   I hope
> that if his rhetoric continues this way, and he repeatedly violates their
> terms of services, that they do shut him down completely.  He can go on Fox
> and Friends or something.
>
> Marcus
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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>

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Re: [FRIAM] @fakedonaldtrump

[Marcus Daniels]

“While I feel very nervous about Twitter shutting down theDonald's personal 
account
so cavalierly, I can imagine how devastating it would be to his ego to not be 
able to
blurt out his nonsense at all times of the day or night without benefit of 
counsel by
his (admittedly highly flawed) inner circle/counsel.  Moving the same blurts to 
@POTUS
might be all it would achieve, which might enhance the absurdity yet more?”

While I like the idea of his continued self-sabotage, his pronouncements 
probably keep a part of the base stoked.
If his accounts were to go away, those folks might not have the initiative to 
replace that outlet with another.   And then they could get back to torturing 
animals or whatever it is they do all day.
The ACLU new policy to not support armed groups seems like a good step.   There 
are other groups like the SPLC that can tackle the haters.   I hope that if his 
rhetoric continues this way, and he repeatedly violates their terms of 
services, that they do shut him down completely.  He can go on Fox and Friends 
or something.
Marcus


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Re: [FRIAM] @fakedonaldtrump

[gⅼеɳ]

This is interesting if you type in "trump":
https://www.csc2.ncsu.edu/faculty/healey/tweet_viz/tweet_app/

Here are some other tools:
https://blog.bufferapp.com/free-twitter-tools

It irritates me to no end when we call password guessing or phishing "hacking". 
 The concept of hacking is rich and calling those banal techniques "hacking" 
does the concept an injustice.  That password guessing stuff isn't even worthy 
of the word "cracking".  Now, if someone pulled a man-in-the-middle and 
reconstructed the packets to find a password, *that* would be worthy.  Get off 
my iLawn!


On 08/18/2017 10:54 AM, Steven A Smith wrote:
> 
> I haven't been willing to follow much if any of the twittering the Donald 
> does,
> but with the Anne Frank Center for Mutual Respect, folks calling for closing 
> the
> @realdonaldtrump twitter account, it piqued my interest.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/08/17/now-you-can-see-what-donald-trump-sees-every-time-he-opens-twitter/?utm_term=.6d0cbe09518f
> 
> The rising conflict between hate speech and free speech around this new White
> Supremacist eruption rallied around Trump's ascendency and implicit support
> is fascinating to me.  Though as with all my greatest fascinations, it is 
> unfortunately
> (yet another) morbid one.
> 
> I discovered that the Washington Post has created a mirror of Trump's Feed
> titled @trumpsfeed as well as listing the 45 twitter accounts he is following 
> in
> the order he subscribed to them.   Unsurprisingly Ivanka is at the top of the 
> list
> with Greta van Susteren and Bill O'Reilly  not far behind.
> 
> While I feel very nervous about Twitter shutting down theDonald's personal 
> account
> so cavalierly, I can imagine how devastating it would be to his ego to not be 
> able to
> blurt out his nonsense at all times of the day or night without benefit of 
> counsel by
> his (admittedly highly flawed) inner circle/counsel.  Moving the same blurts 
> to @POTUS
> might be all it would achieve, which might enhance the absurdity yet more?
> 
> It would seem much more entertaining if someone (other than Twitter Inc) 
> managed
> to hack Twitter and mess with  his feed.  As blatantly as taking over 
> @realDonaldTrump
> and turning it into a parody of him, and then signing him up for the address
> @fakeDonaldTrump.
> 
> On that vector I discovered (unsurprisingly) that there IS an @fakeDonaldTrump
> (https://twitter.com/fakedonaldtrump ) which hasn't been utilized... 
> created/joined
> apparently in 2008?   The account has not tweeted and has only 125 followers, 
> within
> whom I cannot find any particular pattern.
> 
> Where are the Anonymous Hacktivists in all this?  Their intentions often seem 
> meritible
> but I can't tell how effective they have been in some of their campaigns.  
> This is mildly
> surprising.


-- 
gⅼеɳ


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FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove