Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?
On 22 July 2013 21:57, Michael Hampicke m...@hadt.biz wrote: Am 22.07.2013 17:02, schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés: ConsoleKit is for all practical purposes unmaintained, and all of the packages you mentioned it support systemd just fine. Emerge systemd, and purge CK from your system; I did that almost a year ago. Thanks, just purged consolekit from my system after setting USE=-consolekit and remerged the affected packages. Do you have systemd enabled? I mean USE=systemd. What is going to happen if my system does not have consolekit? -- -- Csanyi Andras (Sayusi Ando) -- http://sayusi.hu -- http://facebook.com/andras.csanyi -- Trust in God and keep your gunpowder dry! - Cromwell
Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?
On 23/07/13 09:11, András Csányi wrote: On 22 July 2013 21:57, Michael Hampicke m...@hadt.biz wrote: Am 22.07.2013 17:02, schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés: ConsoleKit is for all practical purposes unmaintained, and all of the packages you mentioned it support systemd just fine. Emerge systemd, and purge CK from your system; I did that almost a year ago. Thanks, just purged consolekit from my system after setting USE=-consolekit and remerged the affected packages. Do you have systemd enabled? I mean USE=systemd. What is going to happen if my system does not have consolekit? What do you mean? ConsoleKit is used mainly to recognize if you are a local user or not. If you don't have ConsoleKit OR systemd-logind, then nothing will recognize you are a local user and anything using PolicyKit like for example, networkmanager or your desktop's shutdown/restart functionality, or automounting by file manager, won't succeed without root password because then nothing is telling PolicyKit the user is local and fallback to root is applied. For example, if you don't have sys-auth/consolekit installed then xfce-base/xfce4-session will fallback to using `sudo` for authorization on shutdown/reboot But some functionality have no fallback like this at all, so if aiming for systemd-less and ConsoleKit-less system, you have to know what is what... I hope that clarifies instead of complicates :P
[gentoo-user] Re: systemd - are we forced to switch?
On 23/07/13 08:43, Samuli Suominen wrote: On 23/07/13 00:46, Mark David Dumlao wrote: This would be a lot less of an issue if someone just wrote a logind ebuild (wink wink) that provides consolekit like it was originally intended. not possible, logind since systemd = 205 requires systemd and won't work on openrc, upstart, and such as in, the idea of using logind outside of systemd is a dead end so keeping ConsoleKit in portage for long as it works for long as we need openrc for Linux based systems and when it no longer works, the contingency plan is to ship vendor based polkit files that possibly either restore 'plugdev' group or provide similar groups to ArchLinux like 'network', 'storage', 'power' to split up the old 'plugdev' Wouldn't it be better to switch to systemd instead?
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd - are we forced to switch?
On 23 July 2013 08:54, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote: On 23/07/13 08:43, Samuli Suominen wrote: On 23/07/13 00:46, Mark David Dumlao wrote: This would be a lot less of an issue if someone just wrote a logind ebuild (wink wink) that provides consolekit like it was originally intended. not possible, logind since systemd = 205 requires systemd and won't work on openrc, upstart, and such as in, the idea of using logind outside of systemd is a dead end so keeping ConsoleKit in portage for long as it works for long as we need openrc for Linux based systems and when it no longer works, the contingency plan is to ship vendor based polkit files that possibly either restore 'plugdev' group or provide similar groups to ArchLinux like 'network', 'storage', 'power' to split up the old 'plugdev' Wouldn't it be better to switch to systemd instead? Is there a migration guide? According to google there is no any. (or I haven't spend enough time to search) -- -- Csanyi Andras (Sayusi Ando) -- http://sayusi.hu -- http://facebook.com/andras.csanyi -- Trust in God and keep your gunpowder dry! - Cromwell
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd - are we forced to switch?
On 23/07/13 09:54, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: On 23/07/13 08:43, Samuli Suominen wrote: On 23/07/13 00:46, Mark David Dumlao wrote: This would be a lot less of an issue if someone just wrote a logind ebuild (wink wink) that provides consolekit like it was originally intended. not possible, logind since systemd = 205 requires systemd and won't work on openrc, upstart, and such as in, the idea of using logind outside of systemd is a dead end so keeping ConsoleKit in portage for long as it works for long as we need openrc for Linux based systems and when it no longer works, the contingency plan is to ship vendor based polkit files that possibly either restore 'plugdev' group or provide similar groups to ArchLinux like 'network', 'storage', 'power' to split up the old 'plugdev' Wouldn't it be better to switch to systemd instead? sure, I'm all for systemd but it's not the default yet... or rather, not tested enough to be the contigency plans. need to have contigency plans. :)
[gentoo-user] Make BIND inject queries
I have recently installed BIND as a recursive resolver for local network. I'll explain my configuration. There's a network with hosts binded to example.org domain, like host1.example.org, host2.example.org etc. They make DNS query through recursive server A. Authoritative server for example.org domain is server B and it's totally unrelated. Below is an example of what I'd like to accomplish. 1. When the outside make a DNS query for host1.example.org, it should only receive its record 2001:db8:a::1. 2. When host2 queries server A for host1.example.com, server A should return the same 2001:db8:a::1 record (resolved through authoritative server) and also inject 192.168.1.100 A record into the reply. How can I setup BIND on server A to make it happen?
Re: [gentoo-user] SSD partitioning and migration
On Sun, July 21, 2013 01:45, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Sun, 21 Jul 2013 07:02:35 +0800, William Kenworthy wrote: Yes, and it's mounted ro to minimise the risk of such damage. I used to do this (keeping a rescue partitio) ... but found it was useful only some of the time. Nowadays I just leave a sysrescuecd USB key on top of the case :) Same features, useful in more circumstances, less maintenance overhead. This sin't a rescue partition, it's just a GRUB menu entry and a copy f the ISO in /boot, so far less maintenance even than making sure a USB stick stays put. Plus it is much faster to boot. It's a nice idea, but the boot-time of the rescue-partition doesn't really matter to me. It's more important that it boots a recent version. On a desktop it would be useful, but as I have more then 1 machine, creating the USB stick is just as easy :) -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Fresh install and problem with net.* init.d script
On 2013/07/23 01:13, Neil Bothwick wrote: Sets are your friend here. I have a base set containing all the useful things I put on all installs, including the things details in the handbook like a cron daemon and system logger as well as the likes of eix, conf-update, portage-utils and emacs. Then I have sets for desktop, laptop etc, each of which inherits the base set. so it's pretty much a case of partition the disk, unpack the stage3, emerge @laptop (or whatever, compile the kernel, configure the bootloader and reboot. Thanks for the tip Neil, I will take a look at this portage feature and will probably use it for building set for web server related software, mail server, desktop and so one...
Re: [gentoo-user] Make BIND inject queries
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 11:40:28AM +0400, Pavel Volkov wrote: I have recently installed BIND as a recursive resolver for local network. I'll explain my configuration. There's a network with hosts binded to example.org domain, like host1.example.org, host2.example.org etc. They make DNS query through recursive server A. Authoritative server for example.org domain is server B and it's totally unrelated. Below is an example of what I'd like to accomplish. 1. When the outside make a DNS query for host1.example.org, it should only receive its record 2001:db8:a::1. 2. When host2 queries server A for host1.example.com, server A should return the same 2001:db8:a::1 record (resolved through authoritative server) and also inject 192.168.1.100 A record into the reply. How can I setup BIND on server A to make it happen? Sounds like you want the BIND views functionality: http://ftp.isc.org/isc/bind9/cur/9.9/doc/arm/Bv9ARM.ch06.html#id2591409 -- staticsafe O ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org Please don't top post. Please don't CC! I'm subscribed to whatever list I just posted on.
Re: [gentoo-user] SSD partitioning and migration
On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 09:41:58 +0200, J. Roeleveld wrote: This isn't a rescue partition, it's just a GRUB menu entry and a copy ¬ f the ISO in /boot, so far less maintenance even than making sure a USB stick stays put. Plus it is much faster to boot. It's a nice idea, but the boot-time of the rescue-partition doesn't really matter to me. It's more important that it boots a recent version. On a desktop it would be useful, but as I have more then 1 machine, creating the USB stick is just as easy :) I agree that creating a sysrescd USB stick from the ISO is easy with the provided script, almost as easy as scping the file to a few machines. About the only thing easier is losing the USB stick hen I need it, which is probably the main reason I do it this way. I believe it's also possible to do this with PXE, meanng you don't even need multiple copies of the file... unless your PXE server needs rescuing. I always have it on a USB stick too, but that's for fixing other people's computers :) -- Neil Bothwick Idaho - It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from there. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Make BIND inject queries
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 11:45 AM, staticsafe m...@staticsafe.ca wrote: On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 11:40:28AM +0400, Pavel Volkov wrote: Sounds like you want the BIND views functionality: http://ftp.isc.org/isc/bind9/cur/9.9/doc/arm/Bv9ARM.ch06.html#id2591409 As I understand it, views functionality is for giving different answers for different clients on a single server. It's not what I need. Internal clients only make queries to server A. External clients query server B (authoritative for the zone). Server A adds example.com's zone part stored which is stored on server B to its own answers. I hope my explanation is clear.
Re: [gentoo-user] Make BIND inject queries
On 23/07/2013 09:40, Pavel Volkov wrote: I have recently installed BIND as a recursive resolver for local network. I'll explain my configuration. There's a network with hosts binded to example.org http://example.org domain, like host1.example.org http://host1.example.org, host2.example.org http://host2.example.org etc. They make DNS query through recursive server A. Authoritative server for example.org http://example.org domain is server B and it's totally unrelated. Below is an example of what I'd like to accomplish. 1. When the outside make a DNS query for host1.example.org http://host1.example.org, it should only receive its record 2001:db8:a::1. 2. When host2 queries server A for host1.example.com http://host1.example.com, server A should return the same 2001:db8:a::1 record (resolved through authoritative server) and also inject 192.168.1.100 A record into the reply. How can I setup BIND on server A to make it happen? What you want to accomplish is cache-poisoning. There's a few ways to do it, but it's not easy. You can load the customized copy of the zone onto the cache that your internal hosts use, or set up an authoritative internal-only server. This stuff gets tricky, every time I have to investigate our setup that does something similar, I need to work it out in my head all over again. The best advice I can give is DO NOT TRY AND ACCOMPLISH THIS WITH ONE DNS AUTH SERVER THAT SERVES INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL CLIENT. That way lies a whole lotta pain. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?
Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 9:58 PM, cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: [ snip ] I have several things depending on consolekit: sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.5_p20120320-r2 pulled in by: gnome-base/gnome-control-center-3.8.3 requires sys-auth/consolekit Dependency of gnome-control-center: || ( ( app-admin/openrc-settingsd sys-auth/consolekit ) =sys-apps/systemd-31 ) gnome-base/gnome-session-3.8.2.1-r1 requires sys-auth/consolekit gnome-session: systemd? ( =sys-apps/systemd-183 ) !systemd? ( sys-auth/consolekit ) gnome-base/gnome-shell-3.8.3-r1 requires sys-auth/consolekit gnome-shell: || ( sys-auth/consolekit =sys-apps/systemd-31 ) sys-apps/accountsservice-0.6.30 requires sys-auth/consolekit accountsservice: systemd? ( =sys-apps/systemd-186 ) !systemd? ( sys-auth/consolekit ) sys-auth/pambase-20120417-r2 requires pambase: consolekit? ( =sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.5_p2012[pam] ) systemd? ( =sys-apps/systemd-44-r1[pam] ) =sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.5_p2012[pam] consolekit obviously doesn't depend on itself. sys-auth/polkit-0.111 requires sys-auth/consolekit[policykit] polkit: pam? ( systemd? ( sys-auth/pambase[systemd] ) !systemd? ( sys-auth/pambase[consolekit] ) ) In other words, *ALL* of these packages can use systemd instead of consolekit (and in the case of pambase, both at the same time). And, as Mark already linked[1]: ConsoleKit is currently not actively maintained. The focus has shifted to the built-in seat/user/session management of Software/systemd called systemd-loginctl, I would not really count on these packages supporting CK in the future. So, this implies if I want to keep using gnome then systemd is required, or use another desktop. That is something to think about. -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici cov...@ccs.covici.com
Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?
On 23/07/2013 11:31, cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: So, this implies if I want to keep using gnome then systemd is required, or use another desktop. That is something to think about. Correct. I wouldn't stress about it too much, your choice is do you want to use Gnome3 or not? And then just use whatever Gnome3 gives as *that* part you don't have a choice about. It's a bit like wondering if you *have to* use Qt to get KDE. It's pointless even wondering about it. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Fresh install and problem with net.* init.d script
On 2013-07-22 6:08 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder why you didn't have dbus installed. I don't have dbus installed either, but I'm still on the old udev. I've been planning on updating it this weekend (so I'll have time to deal with any issues), but when I do an emerge -pvuDN world, dbus is NOT in the list of things to install. So, since you didn't actually answer his question, I'll ask it again... Is dbus actually *required* for even a server system? Is this requirement only for the new udev? If so, why is it not getting pulled in on my system? And if so, why is my system working now without it?
Re: [gentoo-user] Fresh install and problem with net.* init.d script
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 07:06:18AM -0400, Tanstaafl wrote:
On 2013-07-22 6:08 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote:
I wonder why you didn't have dbus installed.
I don't have dbus installed either, but I'm still on the old udev.
I've been planning on updating it this weekend (so I'll have time to
deal with any issues), but when I do an emerge -pvuDN world, dbus is NOT
in the list of things to install.
So, since you didn't actually answer his question, I'll ask it again...
Is dbus actually *required* for even a server system? Is this
requirement only for the new udev? If so, why is it not getting pulled
in on my system? And if so, why is my system working now without it?
This is a server on my LAN. You draw your own conclusion. No dbus installed.
mingdao@server ~ $ eix sys-apps/dbus
* sys-apps/dbus
Available versions: 1.6.8 ~1.6.8-r1 1.6.10 1.6.12 {{X debug doc selinux
static-libs systemd test}}
Homepage:http://dbus.freedesktop.org/
Description: A message bus system, a simple way for applications
to talk to each other
mingdao@server ~ $ eix sys-fs/udev
[I] sys-fs/udev
Available versions: 197-r8^t 200^t 204^t ~205^t **^t {{acl doc
+firmware-loader gudev hwdb introspection keymap +kmod +openrc selinux
static-libs}}
Installed versions: 204^t(02:40:22 PM 06/26/2013)(acl firmware-loader
kmod openrc -doc -gudev -hwdb -introspection -keymap -selinux -static-libs)
Homepage:http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd
Description: Linux dynamic and persistent device naming support
(aka userspace devfs)
[I] sys-fs/udev-init-scripts
Available versions: 23^t 25^t 26^t **^t
Installed versions: 26^t(02:40:36 PM 06/26/2013)
Homepage:http://www.gentoo.org
Description: udev startup scripts for openrc
Found 2 matches.
mingdao@server ~ $
--
Happy Penguin Computers ')
126 Fenco Drive ( \
Tupelo, MS 38801 ^^
supp...@happypenguincomputers.com
662-269-2706 662-205-6424
http://happypenguincomputers.com/
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting
Re: [gentoo-user] Fresh install and problem with net.* init.d script
On 23/07/13 at 07:06am, Tanstaafl wrote: On 2013-07-22 6:08 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder why you didn't have dbus installed. I don't have dbus installed either, but I'm still on the old udev. I've been planning on updating it this weekend (so I'll have time to deal with any issues), but when I do an emerge -pvuDN world, dbus is NOT in the list of things to install. So, since you didn't actually answer his question, I'll ask it again... Is dbus actually *required* for even a server system? Is this requirement only for the new udev? If so, why is it not getting pulled in on my system? And if so, why is my system working now without it? The OP mentioned he selected the desktop profile thats probably why it got pulled in. Dbus is not required with the default profile. -- - Yohan Pereira The difference between a Miracle and a Fact is exactly the difference between a mermaid and a seal. -- Mark Twain
Re: [gentoo-user] hp H222 SAS controller
On Mon, July 15, 2013 09:39, Mick wrote: On Sunday 14 Jul 2013 23:35:50 Paul Hartman wrote: On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On 08/07/2013 17:39, Paul Hartman wrote: On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 9:04 PM, Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.com wrote: ST4000DM000 As a side-note these two Seagate 4TB Desktop edition drives I bought already, after about than 100 hours of power-on usage, both drives have each encountered dozens of unreadable sectors so far. I was able to correct them (force reallocation) using hdparm... So it should be fixed, and I'm reading that this is normal with newer drives and don't worry about it, but I'm still coming from the time when 1 bad sector = red alert, replace the drive ASAP. I guess I will need to monitor and see if it gets worse. Way back when in the bad old days of drives measured in 100s of megs, you'd get a few bad sectors now and then, and would have to mark them as faulty. This didn't bother us then much Nowadays we have drives that are 8,000 bigger than that so all other things being equal we'd expect sectors to fail 8,000 time more (more being a very fuzzy concept, and I know full well I'm using it loosely :-) ) Our drives nowadays also have smart firmware, something we had to introduce when CHS no longer cut it, this lead to sector failures being somewhat invisible leaving us with the happy delusion that drives were vastly reliable etc etc etc. But you know all this. A mere few dozen failures in the first 100 hours is a failure rate of (Alan whips out the trust sci calculator) 4.8E-6%. Pretty damn spectacular if you ask me and WELL within probabilities. There is likely nothing wrong with your drives. If they are faulty, it's highly likely a systemic manufacturing fault of the mechanicals (servo systems, motor bearing etc) You do realize that modern hard drives have for the longest time been up there in the Top X list of Most Reliable Devices Made By Mankind Ever? An update: the Seagate drives have both continued to spit more unrecoverable errors and find more and more bad sectors. Including some end-to-end errors indicated as critical FAILING NOW status in SMART. From what I have read that error means the drive's internal cache did not match the data written to disk, which seems like a serious flaw. The threshold is 1 which means if it happens at all, the drive should be replaced. It has happened half a dozen times on each disk so far (but not at the exact same time, so I don't think it is a host controller problem -- and other disks on the same controller and cable have had no issues). They have also been disconnecting and resetting randomly, sometimes requiring me to pull the drive and reinsert it into the enclosure to make it reappear. It happens even after I disabled APM, so I know it isn't a spin-down/idle timeout thing. Temperatures are actually very good (low 30's) so they are not overheating. I think I will try to trade them in to Seagate for a new pair under warranty replacement. And then probably try to sell the replacements and be rid of them. Meanwhile, during that experiment, I bought 2 brand new Western Digital Red 3TB drives last week. No problems in SMART testing or creating LVM/RAID/Filesystems. I have now been running the destructive write/read badblocks tests for 24+ hours and they have been perfect so far, exactly 0 errors. They are more expensive (3TB for the same price as the 4TB seagate) and slightly slower read/write speed (150MB/sec peak vs 170MB/sec peak), but I value reliability over all other factors. These Seagate drives must have some kind of manufacturing defect, or perhaps were damaged in shipping... UPS have been known to treat packages like a football! I've been watching this thread with interest, because I've been trying to find out which HDD I should be buying for a new PC. For every person reporting problematic Seagates there's another person complaining about Western Digital being too noisy, failing, or in the case of the black versions, far too expensive. Amidst all the anecdotal aphorisms against one or the other manufacturer, I saw mentioned that the likelihood of failure doubles up when you go from 1TB to 2 TB. If true, I guess that the 3TB would have fewer failures than 4TB drive. For what it's worth I have had a number of Seagates failing on me, but since this was in the 90's. On my laptop a Seagate Momentus 7200.4 (ST9500420ASG) is running fine for the last 3.5 years so, I was thinking of taking a punt on a 'Seagate Barracuda 3.5 inch 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB 6GB/S Internal SATA'. But what you're mentioning here gives me cause to pause. I usually tend to avoid comments about one brand or the other. Due to some bad experiences in the past with some brands, and not many issues with WD (only 1 dodgy drive, more details further in this email)
Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?
Am 2013-07-23 08:11, schrieb András Csányi: On 22 July 2013 21:57, Michael Hampicke m...@hadt.biz wrote: Am 22.07.2013 17:02, schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés: ConsoleKit is for all practical purposes unmaintained, and all of the packages you mentioned it support systemd just fine. Emerge systemd, and purge CK from your system; I did that almost a year ago. Thanks, just purged consolekit from my system after setting USE=-consolekit and remerged the affected packages. Do you have systemd enabled? I mean USE=systemd. Of course I do :-) I also use systemd as init.
Re: [gentoo-user] Fresh install and problem with net.* init.d script
On 2013/07/23 13:20, Yohan Pereira wrote: On 23/07/13 at 07:06am, Tanstaafl wrote: On 2013-07-22 6:08 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder why you didn't have dbus installed. I don't have dbus installed either, but I'm still on the old udev. I've been planning on updating it this weekend (so I'll have time to deal with any issues), but when I do an emerge -pvuDN world, dbus is NOT in the list of things to install. So, since you didn't actually answer his question, I'll ask it again... Is dbus actually *required* for even a server system? Is this requirement only for the new udev? If so, why is it not getting pulled in on my system? And if so, why is my system working now without it? The OP mentioned he selected the desktop profile thats probably why it got pulled in. Dbus is not required with the default profile. yes but that might not be related to my choosen profile because it is not required too for a minimal install (no X, only the basics), in fact what I am doing is not the gentoo way like the one described in the handbook (mainly because the full install process is scripted) so don't be worried about the trouble I had, You probably won't encounter the same by doing a regular upgrade. Sorry for confusing you
Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?
On Tue, Jul 23 2013, Alan McKinnon wrote: I wouldn't stress about it too much, your choice is do you want to use Gnome3 or not? And then just use whatever Gnome3 gives as *that* part you don't have a choice about. Very clearly stated. Thanks. Currently I have gnome-base/gnome-3.6.2 with consolekit and no systemd Since I wish to continue with Gnome3, I gather that at some point I will be reversing the above (consolekit out; systemd in). I was planning to wait for the devs to publish a conversion guide. Is there a compelling reason to switch now? thanks, allan
Re: [gentoo-user] Make BIND inject queries
On Tuesday 23 July 2013 10:25:51 Alan McKinnon wrote: What you want to accomplish is cache-poisoning. There's a few ways to do it, but it's not easy. You can load the customized copy of the zone onto the cache that your internal hosts use, or set up an authoritative internal-only server. This stuff gets tricky, every time I have to investigate our setup that does something similar, I need to work it out in my head all over again. The best advice I can give is DO NOT TRY AND ACCOMPLISH THIS WITH ONE DNS AUTH SERVER THAT SERVES INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL CLIENT. That way lies a whole lotta pain. I see. This is a trivial feature in Dnsmasq (that's where I got the idea from), didn't except it to be this complicated in BIND.
Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?
On Monday 22 July 2013 21:57:06 Michael Hampicke wrote: Am 22.07.2013 17:02, schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés: ConsoleKit is for all practical purposes unmaintained, and all of the packages you mentioned it support systemd just fine. Emerge systemd, and purge CK from your system; I did that almost a year ago. Thanks, just purged consolekit from my system after setting USE=-consolekit and remerged the affected packages. KDE / systemd user here. Currently I have to put -consolekit into /etc/portage/profile/use.force to get rid of ConsoleKit because USE=+consolekit is forced for some packages in default/linux/amd64/13.0/desktop/kde profile, not matter what you set in make.conf. And systemd is blocking consolekit package. I consider use.force a deviation from the official and fully supported way. Maybe Gentoo devs can resolve it? Those 3 packages are: sys-auth/pambase-20120417-r2 USE=(consolekit*) kde-base/kdm-4.10.5-r1:4 USE=(consolekit*) net-wireless/bluez-4.101-r5 USE=alsa (consolekit*)
Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 4:31 AM, cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 9:58 PM, cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: [ snip ] I have several things depending on consolekit: sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.5_p20120320-r2 pulled in by: gnome-base/gnome-control-center-3.8.3 requires sys-auth/consolekit Dependency of gnome-control-center: || ( ( app-admin/openrc-settingsd sys-auth/consolekit ) =sys-apps/systemd-31 ) gnome-base/gnome-session-3.8.2.1-r1 requires sys-auth/consolekit gnome-session: systemd? ( =sys-apps/systemd-183 ) !systemd? ( sys-auth/consolekit ) gnome-base/gnome-shell-3.8.3-r1 requires sys-auth/consolekit gnome-shell: || ( sys-auth/consolekit =sys-apps/systemd-31 ) sys-apps/accountsservice-0.6.30 requires sys-auth/consolekit accountsservice: systemd? ( =sys-apps/systemd-186 ) !systemd? ( sys-auth/consolekit ) sys-auth/pambase-20120417-r2 requires pambase: consolekit? ( =sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.5_p2012[pam] ) systemd? ( =sys-apps/systemd-44-r1[pam] ) =sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.5_p2012[pam] consolekit obviously doesn't depend on itself. sys-auth/polkit-0.111 requires sys-auth/consolekit[policykit] polkit: pam? ( systemd? ( sys-auth/pambase[systemd] ) !systemd? ( sys-auth/pambase[consolekit] ) ) In other words, *ALL* of these packages can use systemd instead of consolekit (and in the case of pambase, both at the same time). And, as Mark already linked[1]: ConsoleKit is currently not actively maintained. The focus has shifted to the built-in seat/user/session management of Software/systemd called systemd-loginctl, I would not really count on these packages supporting CK in the future. So, this implies if I want to keep using gnome then systemd is required, or use another desktop. That is something to think about. Or you could, you know, try it. If you don't like it, you change DE and get back to OpenRC. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd - are we forced to switch?
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 2:04 AM, András Csányi sayusi.a...@sayusi.hu wrote: On 23 July 2013 08:54, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote: On 23/07/13 08:43, Samuli Suominen wrote: On 23/07/13 00:46, Mark David Dumlao wrote: This would be a lot less of an issue if someone just wrote a logind ebuild (wink wink) that provides consolekit like it was originally intended. not possible, logind since systemd = 205 requires systemd and won't work on openrc, upstart, and such as in, the idea of using logind outside of systemd is a dead end so keeping ConsoleKit in portage for long as it works for long as we need openrc for Linux based systems and when it no longer works, the contingency plan is to ship vendor based polkit files that possibly either restore 'plugdev' group or provide similar groups to ArchLinux like 'network', 'storage', 'power' to split up the old 'plugdev' Wouldn't it be better to switch to systemd instead? Is there a migration guide? According to google there is no any. (or I haven't spend enough time to search) You have the wiki: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Systemd I believe it covers the most important aspects of the migration. Also, it is so much easier now; we even have a stable version on systemd in the tree. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 11:31 AM, gottl...@nyu.edu wrote: On Tue, Jul 23 2013, Alan McKinnon wrote: I wouldn't stress about it too much, your choice is do you want to use Gnome3 or not? And then just use whatever Gnome3 gives as *that* part you don't have a choice about. Very clearly stated. Thanks. Currently I have gnome-base/gnome-3.6.2 with consolekit and no systemd Since I wish to continue with Gnome3, I gather that at some point I will be reversing the above (consolekit out; systemd in). I was planning to wait for the devs to publish a conversion guide. As I said to András, you have the wiki: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Systemd Is there a compelling reason to switch now? Well, as stated earlier, ConsoleKit is basically abandonware. Samuli mentions contingency plans for when CK is no longer an option, but all and any of those paths will be playing catching up with systemd. The standards are now being defined by systemd. And, of course, there are those of us who believe that systemd is in fact a much better option than OpenRC (or any other init system). Thanks to the efforts of people like Fabio Erculiani, right now is kinda easy to switch back and forth between systemd and OpenRC. In Sabayon (a Gentoo derivative) you can actually choose at boot time wich init to use. I would say try it now, when it is relatively easy to switch. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
[gentoo-user] Re: Fresh install and problem with net.* init.d script
Alan McKinnon wrote: dbus is NOT a desktop daemon. This is very important, and that single misunderstanding is probably behind all the fud you read about it. dbus implements a message bus - an amazingly useful thing to have. Why do you need or want a message bus? You might as well ask why do you need or want any other form of IPC you already have, as that is what dbus is. It's a very small, light daemon, can run system-wide or per-session and has the potential to many of the IPC implementations you already have. Those are the ones that don't happen to show up in ps so you hear very little whinging about them. You might as well just use the existing IPC mechanisms too, especially on a server. Oh wait, that would take experience and the humility borne of it. That desktop systems are the main user of dbus at this point in time doesn't change one bit what dbus is designed to do and it's usefulness. Actually it was designed to be a desktop bus. That its mission has crept, or arguably the developer has made a land-grab, doesn't change that. Note I am not saying anything at all about the technical merits of dbus itself. I actually quite like the base protocol, just not all the crap on top of it. Kinda how I feel about the Java VM, fwtw. Regards, steveL -- #friendly-coders -- We're friendly, but we're not /that/ friendly ;-)
