Re: [gentoo-user] CD ROM does not play audio CD's

2008-06-26 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:53:24 +0100, Stroller wrote: As it bloody well should be. An analogue cable is not fixing the problem. It has for years been possible to play music from a CD-ROM connected by only the EIDE cable. Although some CD player software needs to be explicitly told to use

Re: [gentoo-user] gnucash pulls in firefox (when I already have firefox-bin)

2008-06-26 Thread Alan McKinnon
On Thursday 26 June 2008, Neil Bothwick wrote: It is to avoid the need for Firefox 2 installed from source, which is a problem if you use Firefox 3 or firefox-bin. the xulrunner flag make GnuCash, and other apps, build against xunrunner instead of the firefox 2 headers. This makes sense.

Re: [gentoo-user] My last words on cryptology and cryptography.

2008-06-26 Thread Alan McKinnon
On Thursday 26 June 2008, Chris Walters wrote: Sebastian Wiesner wrote: | I don't and I did not say so, things like the Debian disaster bring | you back to reality from dreams ... This is the favoured method of cracking encryption - misuse by the user. The canonical example is of course

[gentoo-user] emerge @preserved-rebuild

2008-06-26 Thread Alan McKinnon
Lately emerge-2.2 has been issuing output like this: !!! existing preserved libs: package: dev-libs/eet- * - /usr/lib/libeet.so.0 * - /usr/lib/libeet.so.0.9.99900 Use emerge @preserved-rebuild to rebuild packages using these libraries There's no reference to this @preserved-rebuild

Re: [gentoo-user] gnucash pulls in firefox (when I already have firefox-bin)

2008-06-26 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:40:19 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: This makes sense. What doesn't make sense is why does an accounting package need to build against a rendering engine? I can't see the connection The doc USE flag makes gnucash depend on gnucash-docs, which in turn depends on yelp.

Re: [gentoo-user] gnucash pulls in firefox (when I already have firefox-bin)

2008-06-26 Thread Alan McKinnon
On Thursday 26 June 2008, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:40:19 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: This makes sense. What doesn't make sense is why does an accounting package need to build against a rendering engine? I can't see the connection The doc USE flag makes gnucash depend on

Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

2008-06-26 Thread Joerg Schilling
Dirk Heinrichs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Montag, 23. Juni 2008 schrieb Joerg Schilling: Be careful not to use forks but only official code. All known forks are full of bugs. In special: they come with extremely buggy mkisofs variants and they all have incomplete and broken DVD support

Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

2008-06-26 Thread Dirk Heinrichs
Am Donnerstag, 26. Juni 2008 schrieb ext Joerg Schilling: Dirk Heinrichs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Montag, 23. Juni 2008 schrieb Joerg Schilling: Be careful not to use forks but only official code. All known forks are full of bugs. In special: they come with extremely buggy mkisofs

Re: [gentoo-user] CD ROM does not play audio CD's

2008-06-26 Thread Joerg Schilling
John covici [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This looks like the two-wire cable between the CD ROM and your soundcard is missing or loose. I'd check this first. If this is a laptop, it might well be that the connection between the two subsystems was left out intentionally by the

Re: [gentoo-user] CD ROM does not play audio CD's

2008-06-26 Thread Joerg Schilling
W.Kenworthy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some (and only some) multimedia audio broke in the last few of updates on two of my systems with cmi chipsets - I had to select IEC958 Monitor before I got sound back. Might be the same thing. and no, I am not using digital output. If this doesnt help

Re: [gentoo-user] CD ROM does not play audio CD's

2008-06-26 Thread John covici
on Thursday 06/26/2008 Joerg Schilling([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote John covici [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This looks like the two-wire cable between the CD ROM and your soundcard is missing or loose. I'd check this first. If this is a laptop, it might well be that the connection

Re: [gentoo-user] CD ROM does not play audio CD's

2008-06-26 Thread Joerg Schilling
John covici [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I recommend you to get a recent cdrtools (e.g. from ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord/alpha/) and install cdda2wav suid root. Then call: cdda2wav -e -N -B If everything is OK, then you will be able to listen to the music.

Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

2008-06-26 Thread Joerg Schilling
Dirk Heinrichs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Donnerstag, 26. Juni 2008 schrieb ext Joerg Schilling: Dirk Heinrichs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Montag, 23. Juni 2008 schrieb Joerg Schilling: Be careful not to use forks but only official code. All known forks are full of bugs. In

Re: [gentoo-user] emerge @preserved-rebuild

2008-06-26 Thread Zhang Le
On 11:12 Thu 26 Jun , Alan McKinnon wrote: Lately emerge-2.2 has been issuing output like this: !!! existing preserved libs: package: dev-libs/eet- * - /usr/lib/libeet.so.0 * - /usr/lib/libeet.so.0.9.99900 Use emerge @preserved-rebuild to rebuild packages using these libraries

Re: [gentoo-user] CD ROM does not play audio CD's

2008-06-26 Thread John covici
on Thursday 06/26/2008 Joerg Schilling([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote John covici [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I recommend you to get a recent cdrtools (e.g. from ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord/alpha/) and install cdda2wav suid root. Then call: cdda2wav -e

Re: [gentoo-user] CD ROM does not play audio CD's

2008-06-26 Thread Joerg Schilling
John covici [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, cdcd is what I would like to use, it thinks it is playing, and did work when I had a driv with that cable, but I hear no sound now. I think it is reading the data off of the cd and I guess its not doing the correct thing with it. Can you

Re: [gentoo-user] emerge @preserved-rebuild

2008-06-26 Thread Alan McKinnon
On Thursday 26 June 2008, Zhang Le wrote: On 11:12 Thu 26 Jun , Alan McKinnon wrote: Lately emerge-2.2 has been issuing output like this: !!! existing preserved libs: package: dev-libs/eet- * - /usr/lib/libeet.so.0 * - /usr/lib/libeet.so.0.9.99900 Use emerge

Re: [gentoo-user] CD ROM does not play audio CD's

2008-06-26 Thread Mark Kirkwood
John covici wrote: Can you recomend a console player with some features like rewind, fast forward, pause and title lookup, etc -- I don't mind changing if I need to change. Not a console player, but totem plays cds and movies with minimum of fuss, and if you have the complete Gnome install

Re: [gentoo-user] CD ROM does not play audio CD's

2008-06-26 Thread Mark Kirkwood
I wrote: Not a console player, but totem plays cds and movies with minimum of fuss, and if you have the complete Gnome install then it is just there. Actually, I am completely mistaken...it's sound-juicer that is playing the cd I'm listening to right now (I usually listen to streaming

Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

2008-06-26 Thread Dirk Heinrichs
Am Donnerstag, 26. Juni 2008 schrieb ext Joerg Schilling: Your question was just an attempt to pass the underlying missinformation that I am not telling the truth. Interesting conclusion. You could save us a lot time if you did your homework and e.g. checked the bug databases from the Linux

Re: [gentoo-user] CD ROM does not play audio CD's

2008-06-26 Thread Joerg Schilling
Mark Kirkwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wrote: Not a console player, but totem plays cds and movies with minimum of fuss, and if you have the complete Gnome install then it is just there. Actually, I am completely mistaken...it's sound-juicer that is playing the cd I'm listening

Re: [gentoo-user] CD ROM does not play audio CD's

2008-06-26 Thread John covici
on Thursday 06/26/2008 Joerg Schilling([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote Mark Kirkwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wrote: Not a console player, but totem plays cds and movies with minimum of fuss, and if you have the complete Gnome install then it is just there. Actually, I

Re: [gentoo-user] CD ROM does not play audio CD's

2008-06-26 Thread Volker Armin Hemmann
On Wednesday 25 June 2008, Uwe Thiem wrote: This looks like the two-wire cable between the CD ROM and your soundcard is missing or loose. you don't need that cable. Really. You don't. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] CD ROM does not play audio CD's

2008-06-26 Thread Joerg Schilling
John covici [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And it wants a non-existent library libesdat.so.0 -- I await the player you are working on, but a text console version would be very convenient. cdda2wav has an interactive mode since yesterday. Check 2.01.01a42 call: cdda2wav -e -N -B to play all

Re: [gentoo-user] Enabling Hald services

2008-06-26 Thread Norman Hakim
NORMAN HAKIM YAHYA --- On Sun, 6/22/08, Daniel Pielmeier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Daniel Pielmeier [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Enabling Hald services To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 9:30 AM Norman Hakim schrieb: Ward Poelmans

Re: [gentoo-user] CD ROM does not play audio CD's

2008-06-26 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:06:18 -0400, John covici wrote: Well, cdcd is what I would like to use, it thinks it is playing, and did work when I had a driv with that cable, but I hear no sound now. I think it is reading the data off of the cd and I guess its not doing the correct thing with it.

Re: [gentoo-user] CD ROM does not play audio CD's

2008-06-26 Thread Uwe Thiem
On Thursday 26 June 2008, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Wednesday 25 June 2008, Uwe Thiem wrote: This looks like the two-wire cable between the CD ROM and your soundcard is missing or loose. you don't need that cable. Really. You don't. Sure. Some software can rip tracks off the CD in the

[gentoo-user] echo after playing the sound

2008-06-26 Thread Pawel K
Hello When I play a sound I can hear the short unexpected sound at the end. This unexpected sound lasts no more than a second and gives the effect of echo. It looks like a part of the original file is repeated at the end. This unexpected sound is not contained in a file. I observe it when playing

Re: [gentoo-user] CD ROM does not play audio CD's

2008-06-26 Thread Joerg Schilling
Uwe Thiem [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday 26 June 2008, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Wednesday 25 June 2008, Uwe Thiem wrote: This looks like the two-wire cable between the CD ROM and your soundcard is missing or loose. you don't need that cable. Really. You don't. Sure.

[gentoo-user] Why does gnome-python-desktop have so many dependencies?

2008-06-26 Thread Alastair Irving
Hi I'm trying to run a program which requires the wnck python module, which I believe is part of the gnome-python-desktop package. I like to keep my gnome desktop minimal, but this package wants to install the following: $ emerge -vp gnome-python-desktop These are the packages that would be

Re: [gentoo-user] Why does gnome-python-desktop have so many dependencies?

2008-06-26 Thread Brian Johnson
Well, the README in the source of this package says: This package contains a few python modules that used to live in gnome-python-extras: - gnomeapplet - gnomeprint, gnomeprint.ui - gtksourceview - wnck - totem.plparser - gtop - nautilusburn - mediaprofiles - metacity

Re: [gentoo-user] Why does gnome-python-desktop have so many dependencies?

2008-06-26 Thread Alan McKinnon
On Thursday 26 June 2008, Alastair Irving wrote: Hi I'm trying to run a program which requires the wnck python module, which I believe is part of the gnome-python-desktop package. I like to keep my gnome desktop minimal, but this package wants to install the following: You're going about

Re: [gentoo-user] 答复: [gentoo-user] Atheros 5xxx driver in kernel 2.6.24-gentoo-r5

2008-06-26 Thread Dirk Heinrichs
Am Donnerstag, 26. Juni 2008 schrieb Zhou Rui: Finally, I emerged madwifi-ng and the WLAN card works. Add if I do the cmd manually: # /etc/init.d/net.ath0 start the interface can get IP address from dhcp normally. But when I add the net. ath0 to the runlevel default and reboot, it cannot

Re: [gentoo-user] Why does gnome-python-desktop have so many dependencies?

2008-06-26 Thread Alastair Irving
On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 06:42:05PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Thursday 26 June 2008, Alastair Irving wrote: Hi I'm trying to run a program which requires the wnck python module, which I believe is part of the gnome-python-desktop package. I like to keep my gnome desktop minimal,

Re: [gentoo-user] My last words on cryptology and cryptography.

2008-06-26 Thread kashani
Alan McKinnon wrote: The calculation is quite simple - measure how quickly a specific computer can match keys. Divide this into the size of the keyspace. The average time to brute force a key is half that value. AFAIK this still averages out at enormous numbers of years, even at insane

Re: [gentoo-user] Why does gnome-python-desktop have so many dependencies?

2008-06-26 Thread Alan McKinnon
On Thursday 26 June 2008, Alastair Irving wrote: as for what i'm trying to do, i was installing the latest version of the orca screenreader from source, as I wanted a more up-to-date version than that provided by portage. The portage version doesn't depend on wnck but all more recent

[gentoo-user] Possibly OT: word-wrapping on bugs.gentoo.org

2008-06-26 Thread Stroller
Hi there, Sorry if this is a dumb-ass question, but am I the only person who has problems with the word-wrapping on bugs.gentoo.org? For instance, comments 5 - 10 of http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi? id=84011 are impossible to read for me, because the text overflows off the right of

[gentoo-user] vmplayer broke again

2008-06-26 Thread David Harel
Hi all, vmplayer broke again. I guess my last update had to do with gtk but still when running vmplayer I get: process 5474: Attempt to remove filter function 0xb58653a0 user data 0x8678f18,but no such filter has been added D-Bus not built with -rdynamic so unable to print a backtrace.

Re: [gentoo-user] Possibly OT: word-wrapping on bugs.gentoo.org

2008-06-26 Thread Kenneth Prugh
On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:36:57 +0100 Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip For what it's worth, that particular bug has word-wrapping problems here on Opera and Linux. However, its one of the few bugs I've ever seen that has problems with wrapping. Seems your stuck with it for now... --

Re: [gentoo-user] My last words on cryptology and cryptography.

2008-06-26 Thread Sebastian Wiesner
Alan McKinnon [EMAIL PROTECTED] at Thursday 26 June 2008, 10:54:43 The calculation is quite simple - measure how quickly a specific computer can match keys. Divide this into the size of the keyspace. The average time to brute force a key is half that value. AFAIK this still averages out at

Re: [gentoo-user] My last words on cryptology and cryptography.

2008-06-26 Thread Alan McKinnon
On Thursday 26 June 2008, Sebastian Wiesner wrote: Alan McKinnon [EMAIL PROTECTED] at Thursday 26 June 2008, 10:54:43 The calculation is quite simple - measure how quickly a specific computer can match keys. Divide this into the size of the keyspace. The average time to brute force a key

Re: [gentoo-user] CD ROM does not play audio CD's

2008-06-26 Thread Mark Kirkwood
Joerg Schilling wrote: sound-juicer has several problems: - it depends on gstreamer/libcdio which is not a logal code combination. - It uses libmusicbrainz to extract the TOC and gets wrong TOC information for CD-extra, then tries to play data tracks. No doubt true (as you

Re: [gentoo-user] CD ROM does not play audio CD's

2008-06-26 Thread Joerg Schilling
Mark Kirkwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joerg Schilling wrote: sound-juicer has several problems: - it depends on gstreamer/libcdio which is not a logal code combination. - It uses libmusicbrainz to extract the TOC and gets wrong TOC information for CD-extra, then tries to

Re: [gentoo-user] My last words on cryptology and cryptography.

2008-06-26 Thread Steven Lembark
I submit that brute forcing an AES key of reasonably length is currently impossible in an amount of time that would matter to the human race. On average yes. As already pointed out, however, there is nothing to prevent the first guess from matching a key and cracking one particular

[gentoo-user] What cpu type in make.conf for E4600

2008-06-26 Thread waltdnes
A computer of mine died, and I'm now setting up the replacement. What do I set -march= to in /etc/make.conf? Below is cpuinfo data for one of the cores... livecd gentoo # cat /proc/cpuinfo processor : 0 vendor_id : GenuineIntel cpu family : 6 model : 15 model name

[gentoo-user] h

2008-06-26 Thread Volker Armin Hemmann
On Donnerstag, 26. Juni 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Thursday 26 June 2008, Sebastian Wiesner wrote: Alan McKinnon [EMAIL PROTECTED] at Thursday 26 June 2008, 10:54:43 The calculation is quite simple - measure how quickly a specific computer can match keys. Divide this into the size

Re: [gentoo-user] What cpu type in make.conf for E4600

2008-06-26 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:09:48 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: model name : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E4600 @ 2.40GHz core2 if you use GCC 4.3, nocona for earlier, or set it to native if you don't use distcc. -- Neil Bothwick * * * - Tribbles    - teenage mutant ninja tribbles

Re: [gentoo-user] What cpu type in make.conf for E4600

2008-06-26 Thread Brian Johnson
http://gentoo-wiki.com/Safe_Cflags suggests using: -march=prescott for 32-bit -march=nocona for 64-bit. Neil Bothwick wrote: On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:09:48 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: model name : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E4600 @ 2.40GHz core2 if you use GCC 4.3,

[gentoo-user] util-linux-2.14

2008-06-26 Thread Chris Walters
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 For those who may be interested, I had submitted a request to the upstream for a new patch for util-linux-2.14, and it is now available from: http://loop-aes.sourceforge.net/updates/ Just thought some people here might be interested in knowing

Re: [gentoo-user] CD ROM does not play audio CD's

2008-06-26 Thread Mark Kirkwood
Joerg Schilling wrote: Mark Kirkwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - An enhanced cd with data tracks etc is not actually a cd according the Phillip spec... Well, it is on the Philips specs and is called CD+ or CDextra. Thanks Joerg - you are correct, I was not aware of the addition

Re: [gentoo-user] What cpu type in make.conf for E4600

2008-06-26 Thread waltdnes
On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 11:13:37PM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote core2 if you use GCC 4.3, nocona for earlier, or set it to native if you don't use distcc. any idea which gcc version is installed by stage3-i686-2008.0_beta2 (along with portage-2008.0_beta2 snapshot)? that makes a difference.

Re: [gentoo-user] What cpu type in make.conf for E4600

2008-06-26 Thread waltdnes
On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 03:16:59PM -0700, Brian Johnson wrote http://gentoo-wiki.com/Safe_Cflags suggests using: -march=prescott for 32-bit -march=nocona for 64-bit. Thanks for the link; it looks like prescott in my case. -- Walter Dnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Stop the Squeegee Kids in

Re: [gentoo-user] h

2008-06-26 Thread Sebastian Günther
* Volker Armin Hemmann ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [27.06.08 00:12]: and this is why nobody uses brute force. There a better ways to crack keys. NSA has tons of experts in mathematics and cryptoanalysis. Plus very sophisticated hardware. I am sure for most ciphers they use something much more

Re: [gentoo-user] h

2008-06-26 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:47:34 +0200, Sebastian Günther wrote: If the NSA had a sufficient algorithm, that is capable of reducing the time that much, they should also be able to prove P=NP. This is worth 1.000.000$ iirc and somehow you should get a Nobel Prize for it. I'm sure the NSA would

Re: [gentoo-user] util-linux-2.14

2008-06-26 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:29:31 -0400, Chris Walters wrote: P.S. I wish people would stop discussing the subject of cryptology into the ground. I ended my discussion. Mailing list threads are like children, you create them but soon lose control of them :) -- Neil Bothwick Bother, said Pooh,

Re: [gentoo-user] What cpu type in make.conf for E4600

2008-06-26 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:43:48 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: core2 if you use GCC 4.3, nocona for earlier, or set it to native if you don't use distcc. any idea which gcc version is installed by stage3-i686-2008.0_beta2 (along with portage-2008.0_beta2 snapshot)? No, but gcc -v will

Re: [gentoo-user] util-linux-2.14

2008-06-26 Thread Chris Walters
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Neil Bothwick wrote: | On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:29:31 -0400, Chris Walters wrote: | | P.S. I wish people would stop discussing the subject of cryptology | into the ground. I ended my discussion. | | Mailing list threads are like children, you

Re: [gentoo-user] My last words on cryptology and cryptography.

2008-06-26 Thread kashani
Steven Lembark wrote: I submit that brute forcing an AES key of reasonably length is currently impossible in an amount of time that would matter to the human race. On average yes. As already pointed out, however, there is nothing to prevent the first guess from matching a key and

Re: [gentoo-user] h

2008-06-26 Thread kashani
Sebastian Günther wrote: * Volker Armin Hemmann ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [27.06.08 00:12]: and this is why nobody uses brute force. There a better ways to crack keys. NSA has tons of experts in mathematics and cryptanalysis. Plus very sophisticated hardware. I am sure for most ciphers they use

[gentoo-user] stage3-i686-2008.0_beta2 builds kernel in x86 directory

2008-06-26 Thread waltdnes
Is this a problem, or simply a name change? The filename says i686 and I have 'CHOST=i686-pc-linux-gnu' in /etc/make.conf, but the kernel ends up as /usr/src/linux/arch/x86/boot/bzImage I noticed this when I tried running a couple of scripts that I use to organize my production and

Re: [gentoo-user] Atheros 5xxx driver in kernel 2.6.24-gentoo-r5

2008-06-26 Thread Zhou Rui
Did you autoload the module at boot (see /etc/conf.d/modules: modules=ath_pci)? I don't write the profile, because the module can be loaded automatically at boot. I used TKIP in my D-Link Router, so I emerged wpa_supplicant yesterday, it works fine. But at Linksys WRT54G which use shared WEP,

Re: [gentoo-user] stage3-i686-2008.0_beta2 builds kernel in x86 directory

2008-06-26 Thread Chris Walters
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Is this a problem, or simply a name change? The filename says i686 | and I have 'CHOST=i686-pc-linux-gnu' in /etc/make.conf, but the kernel | ends up as /usr/src/linux/arch/x86/boot/bzImage | | I noticed this when I

[gentoo-user] SOLVED Re: gnucash pulls in firefox (when I already have firefox-bin)

2008-06-26 Thread Kevin O'Gorman
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Dan Johansson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 24 June 2008, Kevin O'Gorman wrote: On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 4:17 PM, Neil Bothwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 12:39:12 -0700, Kevin O'Gorman wrote: treat Virtual Machines # emerge -at

Re: [gentoo-user] gnucash pulls in firefox (when I already have firefox-bin)

2008-06-26 Thread Kevin O'Gorman
On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 2:19 AM, Neil Bothwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:40:19 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: This makes sense. What doesn't make sense is why does an accounting package need to build against a rendering engine? I can't see the connection The doc USE