Re: [gentoo-user] autofs
Apparently, though unproven, at 23:11 on Saturday 04 June 2011, Stroller did opine thusly: On 4 June 2011, at 16:10, Stéphane Guedon wrote: ... In home network, you share many types of files ! The first I think is DVD iso, which is huge (too large to go through coda) and not streamable... (but I admit it's not the best exemple !) I'm not sure what coda is, but I stream DVD .iso files over Samba to my set-top-box. [1] [2] coda and andrewfs are the same class of thing - a network connected file system. Both claim to deal nicely with becoming disconnected, then will just wait for the other end to come back online. But without the large exposure that NFS and samba already have, support is somewhat spotty still. DVD .iso files are no longer considered huge. There are now people who rip blu-rays to store them on the NAS - those are each c 50gb. I have visions of Aunt Tillie trying to do that off a VFAT usb disk using Windows. :-0 -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Caching Proxy alternative to Squid?
Am 04.06.2011 23:03, schrieb Stroller: On 4 June 2011, at 09:45, Florian Philipp wrote: Am 04.06.2011 02:54, schrieb Stroller: On 3 June 2011, at 09:59, Pandu Poluan wrote: ... Oookay... something's wrong with the box itself... Even Apache TS failed for the pages where Squid failed o_O Time to rebuild the box, then . emerge -e everything! That doesn't help if some config file is bogus. In which case there's no point in reinstalling, either. Stroller. If you start from scratch and don't migrate any config files, hidden directories in /home/* etc., then it might - unless you repeat your mistake, of course. Regards, Florian Philipp signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 04:35:46PM -0700, walt wrote: Thunderbird is my every-day news and email client and I don't switch because it just works for me. Oh that reminds me, one of the annoyances which seems to be common among GUI MUAs is they create a fixed set of IMAP folders which one is then stuck with whether or not they correspond to the IMAP structure already established. Does t-bird still do that? -- caveat utilitor ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
Am 05.06.2011 11:29, schrieb Indi: Oh that reminds me, one of the annoyances which seems to be common among GUI MUAs is they create a fixed set of IMAP folders which one is then stuck with whether or not they correspond to the IMAP structure already established. Does t-bird still do that? T-bird uses a set of preset folders, but all of them can be changed to whatever needed. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Threads changing Was: OT: website design
Apparently, though unproven, at 23:59 on Saturday 04 June 2011, Indi did opine thusly: On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 11:44:30PM +0200, Sebastian Beßler wrote: Am 04.06.2011 23:10, schrieb Indi: Every single GUI MUA I ever tried would lock up and become unresponsive at times when dealing with IMAP. I use Thunderbird and IMAP for 3 years now and in all that time became TB never unresponsive. So this point seems to have improved since your testing. That's good to know, thanks. I'm unlikely to switch from mutt (due in part to so many macros and customizations accumulated the last couple of years), but am always keeping an eye out for those I support. Maybe I'll put the next person who complains about evolution on thunderbird and see how they do with it... Evolution just sucks, all the time. The only feature that sets is apart is the Exchange support, and it's precisely that which crashes is. We enabled POP/IMAP on Exchange and non-Outlook users use that. Thunderbird - I itried this a while back when KMail-4.5. pissed me off extremely. Capable enough except it does something weird with it's internal indexing - shows there's mail in folder, click the folder and it decides there isn't mail after all. S simple this, but a deal-breaking annoying one. Mutt - my networks guys use this on a dedicated mail server just for them (networks guys really are special) and they have no issues at all. 2 of them are hard-core crazy and choose pine instead. The only problem with pine is finding who is supported and maintaining it lately (as repine) Claws is fast, very fast. I didn't like the way it dealt with mail accounts and enable/disable them quickly and easily. KMail was always the best of the lot for me. It read and composed mail, it had all the features of a pine/mutt and shows it in a GUI. No weird bling-bling (it *could* do HTML mail but you had to jump through a hoop first) and made sensible use of the extra screen space and all the information that could be shown. But in the last year, I don't know so much anymore. KDEPIM has a corporate sponsor which I take to mean works like Outlook. It's two whole minor releases behind KDE and they don't have a incremental feature set they can release for the interim. And then there's that text-search aspect that kills Akonadi. I see room for a KDEPIM fork from the 4.4 codebase in maintenance mode that does not add deep features. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
Apparently, though unproven, at 01:58 on Sunday 05 June 2011, Volker Armin Hemmann did opine thusly: On Saturday 04 June 2011 23:53:50 Mick wrote: ... as mud! This reply of yours (unlike your previous) is shown as a new thread in Knode, not as a threaded reply to Dale's message. :@ PS. I'm responding using Knode and news.gmane.org as an NNTP server, to see what difference this may make. you just started a new thread. which shows up in the correct place in the old thread with KMail's standard display. If his mail broke headers, the KMail was able to deal with it regardless -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: website design
Apparently, though unproven, at 00:30 on Sunday 05 June 2011, Neil Bothwick did opine thusly: On Sat, 4 Jun 2011 21:57:45 +0100, Stroller wrote: I thought *every* mail client for smart phones did that, No, only the crap ones. I find K9-Mail otherwise really nice. What are you using? K9, it defaults to top-posting, but you can change it. However, you can't edit the text you are quoting, so it is still rather top-posting-centric. I don't see the point of editing a quote actually :-) Unless you mean reformatting it to still fit in 78 columns -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: website design
Am 05.06.2011 11:53, schrieb Alan McKinnon: I don't see the point of editing a quote actually :-) Oh there a many uses for that. Replying to specifig parts of a quote for example. Unless you mean reformatting it to still fit in 78 columns I edit quotes nearly by every anwser, to delete parts of the quote that are unneeded so it is easier and better to read. Fullquotes are, in my eyes, nearly as bad as top posting. Greetings Sebastian signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
Apparently, though unproven, at 00:09 on Sunday 05 June 2011, Stroller did opine thusly: Yes, like FINDER (actually makes windows explorer look almost reasonable), You know, Finder is not as bad as you would imagine. As Alan says - it works exactly how Steve thinks it should work. I can imagine it is absolutely rubbish if you're forced to use it for only a few minutes at a time. It's been so long since I started using OS X that I can't really remember how it was at first, but I assuredly felt that way about Classic (to MacOS 9). But what I do remember from my first days of OS X is that after a couple of weeks I got used to it - I have been perfectly happy ever after. So here's one thing that MacOS is very good at: text searches. I have to archive old mails in off-line tbz2 to retain some sanity, my colleagues on Macs don't. Their mail store goes somewhere (we don't know where, not having looked much) and 60,000 mails from 2 years doesn't slow things down. If we want to discuss the grand plan from 9 months ago about the public ftp server and replacing the DNS caches without actually ever paying for them, I have a 30 minute search ahead of me. The PFY types a few words in a text box and we magically watch the folder list get shorter and shorter. He can find almost any mail in less than a minute - looks a lot like Google's autocomplete search box actually. My point? MacOS has at least one very well thought-out feature for the users that 100% JustWorks. p.s. stroller - your line breaks are not really reasonable. I have 1920 pixels horizontally and mails display in 7 point Monospace; the mailer is maximized to benefit Folder View. I don't care about the dead space beyond the 100-column limit (Kopete windows set Above all fit in there nicely) but 240 column monospace txt is almost unreadable - the eye can no longer easily stay on the same line while scanning. 80 columns really is a good thing -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 11:46:49AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: Apparently, though unproven, at 23:59 on Saturday 04 June 2011, Indi did opine thusly: On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 11:44:30PM +0200, Sebastian Beßler wrote: Am 04.06.2011 23:10, schrieb Indi: Every single GUI MUA I ever tried would lock up and become unresponsive at times when dealing with IMAP. I use Thunderbird and IMAP for 3 years now and in all that time became TB never unresponsive. So this point seems to have improved since your testing. That's good to know, thanks. I'm unlikely to switch from mutt (due in part to so many macros and customizations accumulated the last couple of years), but am always keeping an eye out for those I support. Maybe I'll put the next person who complains about evolution on thunderbird and see how they do with it... Evolution just sucks, all the time. The only feature that sets is apart is the Exchange support, and it's precisely that which crashes is. We enabled POP/IMAP on Exchange and non-Outlook users use that. Thunderbird - I itried this a while back when KMail-4.5. pissed me off extremely. Capable enough except it does something weird with it's internal indexing - shows there's mail in folder, click the folder and it decides there isn't mail after all. S simple this, but a deal-breaking annoying one. Mutt - my networks guys use this on a dedicated mail server just for them (networks guys really are special) and they have no issues at all. 2 of them are hard-core crazy and choose pine instead. The only problem with pine is finding who is supported and maintaining it lately (as repine) Claws is fast, very fast. I didn't like the way it dealt with mail accounts and enable/disable them quickly and easily. KMail was always the best of the lot for me. It read and composed mail, it had all the features of a pine/mutt and shows it in a GUI. No weird bling-bling (it *could* do HTML mail but you had to jump through a hoop first) and made sensible use of the extra screen space and all the information that could be shown. But in the last year, I don't know so much anymore. KDEPIM has a corporate sponsor which I take to mean works like Outlook. It's two whole minor releases behind KDE and they don't have a incremental feature set they can release for the interim. And then there's that text-search aspect that kills Akonadi. I see room for a KDEPIM fork from the 4.4 codebase in maintenance mode that does not add deep features. Thanks, Alan. Of course kmail is out of the question, as it requires a ginormous application framework be built (and rebuilt weekly, it looks like). I got pretty fed up with wasting time fooling with anything qt, to the point it's now officially banished entirely from my systems. That decision alone has saved me hours of extra work updating (and subsquent repairing of the inevitable fallout) per week. For a long time I built vlc with qt4 (it's very convenient when you're exhausted and just want to play a video), but finally got sick of having to rebuild it every time the qt guys change anything (which they seem to do about every two hours). Now I just use nvlc and cvlc instead. Since I started building vlc without qt I go weeks without having to rebuild it. It's too bad, really. Potentially, qt4 and kde could totally rock. I don't suppose the corporate shenanigans with Nokia and Microsoft have helped, either... Of course, I am using ~x86. It might be less hectic on stable... -- caveat utilitor ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: website design
Apparently, though unproven, at 12:20 on Sunday 05 June 2011, Sebastian Beßler did opine thusly: Am 05.06.2011 11:53, schrieb Alan McKinnon: I don't see the point of editing a quote actually :-) Oh there a many uses for that. Replying to specifig parts of a quote for example. Unless you mean reformatting it to still fit in 78 columns I edit quotes nearly by every anwser, to delete parts of the quote that are unneeded so it is easier and better to read. Fullquotes are, in my eyes, nearly as bad as top posting. Ah, I see what you mean. Now we're tracking. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] converting to gnome3--a trip report
Am 02.06.2011 19:33, schrieb Allan Gottlieb: 1. Install the gnome3 overlay. thanks for your instructions, but I don't get any gnome3 overlay via layman ... how to do that? The overlay gnome doesn't seem to contain the right packages. Thanks, Stefan
Re: [gentoo-user] Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 01:01:22PM +0200, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Sunday 05 June 2011 06:43:37 Indi wrote: On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 11:46:49AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: Apparently, though unproven, at 23:59 on Saturday 04 June 2011, Indi did opine thusly: On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 11:44:30PM +0200, Sebastian Beßler wrote: Am 04.06.2011 23:10, schrieb Indi: Every single GUI MUA I ever tried would lock up and become unresponsive at times when dealing with IMAP. I use Thunderbird and IMAP for 3 years now and in all that time became TB never unresponsive. So this point seems to have improved since your testing. That's good to know, thanks. I'm unlikely to switch from mutt (due in part to so many macros and customizations accumulated the last couple of years), but am always keeping an eye out for those I support. Maybe I'll put the next person who complains about evolution on thunderbird and see how they do with it... Evolution just sucks, all the time. The only feature that sets is apart is the Exchange support, and it's precisely that which crashes is. We enabled POP/IMAP on Exchange and non-Outlook users use that. Thunderbird - I itried this a while back when KMail-4.5. pissed me off extremely. Capable enough except it does something weird with it's internal indexing - shows there's mail in folder, click the folder and it decides there isn't mail after all. S simple this, but a deal-breaking annoying one. Mutt - my networks guys use this on a dedicated mail server just for them (networks guys really are special) and they have no issues at all. 2 of them are hard-core crazy and choose pine instead. The only problem with pine is finding who is supported and maintaining it lately (as repine) Claws is fast, very fast. I didn't like the way it dealt with mail accounts and enable/disable them quickly and easily. KMail was always the best of the lot for me. It read and composed mail, it had all the features of a pine/mutt and shows it in a GUI. No weird bling-bling (it *could* do HTML mail but you had to jump through a hoop first) and made sensible use of the extra screen space and all the information that could be shown. But in the last year, I don't know so much anymore. KDEPIM has a corporate sponsor which I take to mean works like Outlook. It's two whole minor releases behind KDE and they don't have a incremental feature set they can release for the interim. And then there's that text-search aspect that kills Akonadi. I see room for a KDEPIM fork from the 4.4 codebase in maintenance mode that does not add deep features. Thanks, Alan. Of course kmail is out of the question, as it requires a ginormous application framework be built (and rebuilt weekly, it looks like). I got pretty fed up with wasting time fooling with anything qt, to the point it's now officially banished entirely from my systems. That decision alone has saved me hours of extra work updating (and subsquent repairing of the inevitable fallout) per week. For a long time I built vlc with qt4 (it's very convenient when you're exhausted and just want to play a video), but finally got sick of having to rebuild it every time the qt guys change anything (which they seem to do about every two hours). Now I just use nvlc and cvlc instead. Since I started building vlc without qt I go weeks without having to rebuild it. It's too bad, really. Potentially, qt4 and kde could totally rock. I don't suppose the corporate shenanigans with Nokia and Microsoft have helped, either... Of course, I am using ~x86. It might be less hectic on stable... funny - last qt update did not require any rebuilds. I wish I could get rid of gtk. Now THAT is a mess. -- #163933 Yes, gtk also sucks but I find it far less work far less often than using qt, and I've got a selection of custom themes that help mitigate the ugliness. If I were driven strictly by aesthetic concerns qt and kde4 might be my choices, as they can be extremely pleasant to look at. Heh, reminds me of my ex -- he was very pleasant to look at (and a huge amount of constant maintenance work) as well. ;) -- caveat utilitor ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤
Re: [gentoo-user] Threads changing Was: OT: website design
Apparently, though unproven, at 12:43 on Sunday 05 June 2011, Indi did opine thusly: I see room for a KDEPIM fork from the 4.4 codebase in maintenance mode that does not add deep features. Thanks, Alan. Of course kmail is out of the question, as it requires a ginormous application framework be built (and rebuilt weekly, it looks like). I got pretty fed up with wasting time fooling with anything qt, to the point it's now officially banished entirely from my systems. That decision alone has saved me hours of extra work updating (and subsquent repairing of the inevitable fallout) per week. For a long time I built vlc with qt4 (it's very convenient when you're exhausted and just want to play a video), but finally got sick of having to rebuild it every time the qt guys change anything (which they seem to do about every two hours). Now I just use nvlc and cvlc instead. Since I started building vlc without qt I go weeks without having to rebuild it. It's too bad, really. Potentially, qt4 and kde could totally rock. I don't suppose the corporate shenanigans with Nokia and Microsoft have helped, either... Of course, I am using ~x86. It might be less hectic on stable... A victim of release early, release often? :-) It's the price we pay on Gentoo with rolling upgrades - ebuilds for older versions get swept clean so unless you are prepared to maintain code yourself you need to rebuild often. x86 is better, but still not free of it. Binary distros can shield their user from all that (while exposing them to a different set of equally annoying problems...) I don't see a real problem with Qt/Nokia/MS though. I predict a lot of platitudes from that soul-less monstrosity but no real progress. Meanwhile, KDE can fork Qt anytime they feel like it (if they haven't already). Maintenance won't be hard - Qt is mature with a defined roadmap so we can skip the argue about the design for 12 months first step as being already done. I would have like to see Qt running on lots of embedded devides though.. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sunday 05 Jun 2011 12:17:08 Indi wrote: On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 01:01:22PM +0200, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Sunday 05 June 2011 06:43:37 Indi wrote: On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 11:46:49AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: Apparently, though unproven, at 23:59 on Saturday 04 June 2011, Indi did opine thusly: On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 11:44:30PM +0200, Sebastian Beßler wrote: Am 04.06.2011 23:10, schrieb Indi: Every single GUI MUA I ever tried would lock up and become unresponsive at times when dealing with IMAP. I use Thunderbird and IMAP for 3 years now and in all that time became TB never unresponsive. So this point seems to have improved since your testing. That's good to know, thanks. I'm unlikely to switch from mutt (due in part to so many macros and customizations accumulated the last couple of years), but am always keeping an eye out for those I support. Maybe I'll put the next person who complains about evolution on thunderbird and see how they do with it... Evolution just sucks, all the time. The only feature that sets is apart is the Exchange support, and it's precisely that which crashes is. We enabled POP/IMAP on Exchange and non-Outlook users use that. Thunderbird - I itried this a while back when KMail-4.5. pissed me off extremely. Capable enough except it does something weird with it's internal indexing - shows there's mail in folder, click the folder and it decides there isn't mail after all. S simple this, but a deal-breaking annoying one. Mutt - my networks guys use this on a dedicated mail server just for them (networks guys really are special) and they have no issues at all. 2 of them are hard-core crazy and choose pine instead. The only problem with pine is finding who is supported and maintaining it lately (as repine) Claws is fast, very fast. I didn't like the way it dealt with mail accounts and enable/disable them quickly and easily. KMail was always the best of the lot for me. It read and composed mail, it had all the features of a pine/mutt and shows it in a GUI. No weird bling-bling (it *could* do HTML mail but you had to jump through a hoop first) and made sensible use of the extra screen space and all the information that could be shown. But in the last year, I don't know so much anymore. KDEPIM has a corporate sponsor which I take to mean works like Outlook. It's two whole minor releases behind KDE and they don't have a incremental feature set they can release for the interim. And then there's that text-search aspect that kills Akonadi. I see room for a KDEPIM fork from the 4.4 codebase in maintenance mode that does not add deep features. Thanks, Alan. Of course kmail is out of the question, as it requires a ginormous application framework be built (and rebuilt weekly, it looks like). I got pretty fed up with wasting time fooling with anything qt, to the point it's now officially banished entirely from my systems. That decision alone has saved me hours of extra work updating (and subsquent repairing of the inevitable fallout) per week. For a long time I built vlc with qt4 (it's very convenient when you're exhausted and just want to play a video), but finally got sick of having to rebuild it every time the qt guys change anything (which they seem to do about every two hours). Now I just use nvlc and cvlc instead. Since I started building vlc without qt I go weeks without having to rebuild it. It's too bad, really. Potentially, qt4 and kde could totally rock. I don't suppose the corporate shenanigans with Nokia and Microsoft have helped, either... Of course, I am using ~x86. It might be less hectic on stable... funny - last qt update did not require any rebuilds. I wish I could get rid of gtk. Now THAT is a mess. Yes, gtk also sucks but I find it far less work far less often than using qt, and I've got a selection of custom themes that help mitigate the ugliness. If I were driven strictly by aesthetic concerns qt and kde4 might be my choices, as they can be extremely pleasant to look at. Heh, reminds me of my ex -- he was very pleasant to look at (and a huge amount of constant maintenance work) as well. ;) I think that your problem is that you are running ~arch and this comes with frequent updates. These days I'm running stable and my qt, kde or OOo updates are quite infrequent (like twice a year or may be less). I have to admit though that now the mutt can work as a multi-function client I am tempted to reinstall it and give it a another go ... -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 12:40:29PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: So here's one thing that MacOS is very good at: text searches. I have to archive old mails in off-line tbz2 to retain some sanity, my colleagues on Macs don't. Their mail store goes somewhere (we don't know where, not having looked much) and 60,000 mails from 2 years doesn't slow things down. Sorry, forgot to mention that using mairix for searching local mail via offlineimap is *very* fast and quite accurate so far here, though there may be issues I haven't seen yet as it's only been a week or so. Somewhere I read that mairix chokes on utf-8, but so far no problem here.. -- caveat utilitor ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤
[gentoo-user] Test request: open-iscsi 2.0.872
Hello! Would be great to have a few people test open-iscsi 2.0.872 before moving it from overlay betagarden to the main tree. To get it installed please run: # layman -a betagarden # emerge -av =sys-block/open-iscsi-2.0.872 Important: Please include a description of what you did while testing in your feedback. At best, post your feedback as a reply to bug 340425: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340425 Thanks in advance! Best, Sebastian
Re: [gentoo-user] Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 01:34:37PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: A victim of release early, release often? :-) Yes, definitely. One of these days I'll switch back to stable, just haven't been willing to bite that bullet quite yet. At least it's helped me temper my obsessive tendencies a bit -- I only update on Saturday now. :) It's the price we pay on Gentoo with rolling upgrades - ebuilds for older versions get swept clean so unless you are prepared to maintain code yourself you need to rebuild often. x86 is better, but still not free of it. Binary distros can shield their user from all that (while exposing them to a different set of equally annoying problems...) I find binary distros really tough to love. Probably a lot of gentoo users do... I don't see a real problem with Qt/Nokia/MS though. I predict a lot of platitudes from that soul-less monstrosity but no real progress. Meanwhile, KDE can fork Qt anytime they feel like it (if they haven't already). Maintenance won't be hard - Qt is mature with a defined roadmap so we can skip the argue about the design for 12 months first step as being already done. I hope they do fork it, and that they succeed. Probably I've come across as harsh and judgemental about kde4/qt, but in fact if they ever can get to the point of being as reliable and stable as kde3 was I'd be very happy to put users on it. Heck, I'd be deliriously happy to have a reliable option besides xfce for them. I would have like to see Qt running on lots of embedded devides though.. It certainly has a *lot* of potential for embedded. E17 also looks quite interesting, if it ever gets finished. -- caveat utilitor ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤
Re: [gentoo-user] converting to gnome3--a trip report
On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 7:09 AM, Stefan G. Weichinger li...@xunil.at wrote: Am 02.06.2011 19:33, schrieb Allan Gottlieb: 1. Install the gnome3 overlay. thanks for your instructions, but I don't get any gnome3 overlay via layman ... how to do that? The overlay gnome doesn't seem to contain the right packages. Thanks, Stefan This is it here; http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/gnome.git;a=tree;f=status;h=ae166be0beb9b279b8afda08e19ae97b7c724272;hb=HEAD HTH, David
Re: [gentoo-user] problem with Nvidia-drivers-270.41.06
On Sunday 05 June 2011 08:01:27 Philip Webb wrote: I installed the latest stable Nvidia driver 270.41.06 X refuses to start with the message API mismatch: the client has the version 270.41.06, but this kernel module has the version 260.19.36. Please make sure that this kernel module and all NVIDIA driver components have the same version. The emerge output told me to 'modprobe -r nvidia' before restarting X, but that doesn't seem to have any effect. When I remerged 260.19.36 + 'modprobe -r nvidia', all is well again. I don't remember running into this error previously. I suspect a problem with Openrc. Does anyone have comments or suggestions ? a) linux does not point to the src dir of the sources of the kernel you are running. Modules gets installed into the wrong directory b) you did not rmmod'ed the old module c) you did not restart. I guess a) is the answer. -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] Threads changing Was: OT: website design
Apparently, though unproven, at 13:17 on Sunday 05 June 2011, Indi did opine thusly: If I were driven strictly by aesthetic concerns qt and kde4 might be my choices, as they can be extremely pleasant to look at. Heh, reminds me of my ex -- he was very pleasant to look at (and a huge amount of constant maintenance work) as well. ;) You owe me a cup of coffee. The one I had is now dripping down the screen onto the keyboard... Actually, you owe me two, it wasn't just any old cup of coffee, it was proudly made with immense difficulty by a cute 9 year old girl (my daughter) :-) -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 12:41:42PM +0100, Mick wrote: On Sunday 05 Jun 2011 12:17:08 Indi wrote: If I were driven strictly by aesthetic concerns qt and kde4 might be my choices, as they can be extremely pleasant to look at. Heh, reminds me of my ex -- he was very pleasant to look at (and a huge amount of constant maintenance work) as well. ;) I think that your problem is that you are running ~arch and this comes with frequent updates. These days I'm running stable and my qt, kde or OOo updates are quite infrequent (like twice a year or may be less). Twice a year or less, *really*? Had no idea the difference between stable and testing was that huge... Of course the reason I'm running testing is that typically, when I install there are inevitably two or three things I can't live without that don't work in stable so I start with the ACCEPT_KEYWORDS fiddling, and eventually that snowballs into a level of complexity which frustrates me and then I just end up putting ~x86 in make.conf. Anyway, I do use some gtk stuff as well as wmaker and fluxbox and those work (mostly) fine without having to be constantly fooled with. Sometimes gtk or vte breaks and I have to resort to urxvt instead of my beloved terminator while fixing things, but that's acceptably infrequent. I have to admit though that now the mutt can work as a multi-function client I am tempted to reinstall it and give it a another go ... Can't beat mutt, at least if you're keyboard-oriented. Nothing else comes close. -- caveat utilitor ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤
Re: [gentoo-user] Threads changing Was: OT: website design
Apparently, though unproven, at 13:57 on Sunday 05 June 2011, Indi did opine thusly: On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 01:34:37PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: A victim of release early, release often? :-) Yes, definitely. One of these days I'll switch back to stable, just haven't been willing to bite that bullet quite yet. At least it's helped me temper my obsessive tendencies a bit -- I only update on Saturday now. :) Have you ever made that switch before? It's not worth trying, far easier to re-install and retain your data. Someone here tried it a few months back and did succeed, but the cost! Find first blocker, follow it down the rabbit hole, resolve all nodes on the gigantic tree you just built, emerge. Rinse and repeat with next visible blocker. Do this many times. At least glibc issue won't be as big a factor as it was for that fellow. IIRC he had to go from 2.10 to 2.7, today it's only 2.13 back to 2.12 -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Still haveing problems with audio and guvcview
On Sunday 05 Jun 2011 04:51:54 meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Hi Mick, I did a modinfo snd_usb_audio and git this: filename: /lib/modules/2.6.39.1/kernel/sound/usb/snd-usb-audio.ko license:GPL description:USB Audio author: Takashi Iwai ti...@suse.de alias: usb:v*p*d*dc*dsc*dp*ic01isc01ip* alias: usb:v*p*d*dc*dsc*dp*ic01isc03ip* alias: usb:v0DBAp1000d*dc*dsc*dp*ic*isc*ip* [snip ...] depends:snd-usbmidi-lib,snd-pcm,snd,snd-hwdep vermagic: 2.6.39.1 SMP preempt mod_unload parm: index:Index value for the USB audio adapter. (array of int) parm: id:ID string for the USB audio adapter. (array of charp) parm: enable:Enable USB audio adapter. (array of bool) parm: vid:Vendor ID for the USB audio device. (array of int) parm: pid:Product ID for the USB audio device. (array of int) parm: nrpacks:Max. number of packets per URB. (int) parm: async_unlink:Use async unlink mode. (bool) parm: device_setup:Specific device setup (if needed). (array of int) parm: ignore_ctl_error:Ignore errors from USB controller for mixer interfaces. (bool) I am unsure how to play with the params... For example: Is snd_usb_audio enable=treu correct? Well, treu wouldn't be correct, not even in French! ;-) Why it is an /array/ of bool? I think that this is used when there is more than one device/interface/etc. where you will need to enable/disable each one. May be a last chance is with fiddling with this params? Can I rmmod/insmod snd_usb_audio while giving new params to it? How can I do that? Fortunately Module Size Used by ecryptfs 87672 3 snd_seq_dummy 1359 0 snd_seq_oss30300 0 snd_seq_midi_event 5268 1 snd_seq_oss snd_seq50559 5 snd_seq_dummy,snd_seq_oss,snd_seq_midi_event snd_pcm_oss43683 0 snd_mixer_oss 14787 1 snd_pcm_oss microcode 6787 0 nvidia 10489149 28 snd_hda_codec_via 51530 1 *** snd_usb_audio 90398 0 snd_hda_intel 20832 0 snd_hda_codec 63752 2 snd_hda_codec_via,snd_hda_intel snd_pcm73953 4 snd_pcm_oss,snd_usb_audio,snd_hda_intel,snd_hda_codec mt352 5653 1 snd_hwdep 5940 2 snd_usb_audio,snd_hda_codec 8250_pci 23504 0 snd_timer 18685 2 snd_seq,snd_pcm snd_usbmidi_lib18214 1 snd_usb_audio snd_rawmidi18484 1 snd_usbmidi_lib snd_seq_device 5197 4 snd_seq_dummy,snd_seq_oss,snd_seq,snd_rawmidi dvb_bt8xx 11873 0 bt878 7643 1 dvb_bt8xx bttv 112236 2 dvb_bt8xx,bt878 snd55623 15 snd_seq_dummy,snd_seq_oss,snd_seq,snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_hda_codec_ via,snd_usb_audio,snd_hda_intel,snd_hda_codec,snd_pcm,snd_hwdep,snd_timer,s nd_usbmidi_lib,snd_rawmidi,snd_seq_device gspca_ov53410121 0 gspca_main 22449 1 gspca_ov534 i2c_algo_bit4928 1 bttv videobuf_dma_sg 7344 1 bttv videobuf_core 15263 2 bttv,videobuf_dma_sg btcx_risc 3171 1 bttv 8250 21264 1 8250_pci serial_core18115 1 8250 pcspkr 1811 0 asus_atk01108206 0 tveeprom 13257 1 bttv k10temp 2715 0 snd_page_alloc 6793 2 snd_hda_intel,snd_pcm snd_usb_audio is not used by anything else... Years over years I had not a single problem with alsa and modules at all and this seems now be th revenge of the peace of all that years... Yes, I would definitely try switching some of these parameters on/off to see if it will make a difference. I recommend you use modprobe -v instead of insmod. So this could be: modprobe -v -r snd_usb_audio modprobe -v -n snd_usb_audio enable=yes If you don't get any horror warnings when you run it, then remove the -n option and run it again. Also, try paremeter ignore_ctl_error=1 in case it makes a difference. To make this permanent add a line in /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf options snd_usb_audio enable=yes options snd_usb_audio ignore_ctl_error=1 and restart alsa (or reboot). However, the new openrc uses a new way to start modules and dictate their configuration. So the above may not work for ever and you would need to add at some point the module and its parameters in /etc/conf.d/modules. For now I though I would leave it in /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf Hope this helps. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 02:23:50PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: Apparently, though unproven, at 13:17 on Sunday 05 June 2011, Indi did opine thusly: If I were driven strictly by aesthetic concerns qt and kde4 might be my choices, as they can be extremely pleasant to look at. Heh, reminds me of my ex -- he was very pleasant to look at (and a huge amount of constant maintenance work) as well. ;) You owe me a cup of coffee. The one I had is now dripping down the screen onto the keyboard... Actually, you owe me two, it wasn't just any old cup of coffee, it was proudly made with immense difficulty by a cute 9 year old girl (my daughter) :-) Eeek, sorry! :) -- caveat utilitor ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤
Re: [gentoo-user] Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 02:31:21PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: Apparently, though unproven, at 13:57 on Sunday 05 June 2011, Indi did opine thusly: On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 01:34:37PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: A victim of release early, release often? :-) Yes, definitely. One of these days I'll switch back to stable, just haven't been willing to bite that bullet quite yet. At least it's helped me temper my obsessive tendencies a bit -- I only update on Saturday now. :) Have you ever made that switch before? It's not worth trying, far easier to re-install and retain your data. Someone here tried it a few months back and did succeed, but the cost! Find first blocker, follow it down the rabbit hole, resolve all nodes on the gigantic tree you just built, emerge. Rinse and repeat with next visible blocker. Do this many times. At least glibc issue won't be as big a factor as it was for that fellow. IIRC he had to go from 2.10 to 2.7, today it's only 2.13 back to 2.12 Yes, probably I'm unlikely to do it... Never did actually switch from testing to stable, it's always the other way around. Every now and then I'll delete the ~ and type emerge -vauND world, it always looks like a fracking nightmare... In fact, testing branch is remarkable good and more stable than most distro's stable branch. The gentoo devs are truly magnificent at their job. -- caveat utilitor ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤
Re: [gentoo-user] Still haveing problems with audio and guvcview
Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com [11-06-05 14:40]: On Sunday 05 Jun 2011 04:51:54 meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Hi Mick, I did a modinfo snd_usb_audio and git this: filename: /lib/modules/2.6.39.1/kernel/sound/usb/snd-usb-audio.ko license:GPL description:USB Audio author: Takashi Iwai ti...@suse.de alias: usb:v*p*d*dc*dsc*dp*ic01isc01ip* alias: usb:v*p*d*dc*dsc*dp*ic01isc03ip* alias: usb:v0DBAp1000d*dc*dsc*dp*ic*isc*ip* [snip ...] depends:snd-usbmidi-lib,snd-pcm,snd,snd-hwdep vermagic: 2.6.39.1 SMP preempt mod_unload parm: index:Index value for the USB audio adapter. (array of int) parm: id:ID string for the USB audio adapter. (array of charp) parm: enable:Enable USB audio adapter. (array of bool) parm: vid:Vendor ID for the USB audio device. (array of int) parm: pid:Product ID for the USB audio device. (array of int) parm: nrpacks:Max. number of packets per URB. (int) parm: async_unlink:Use async unlink mode. (bool) parm: device_setup:Specific device setup (if needed). (array of int) parm: ignore_ctl_error:Ignore errors from USB controller for mixer interfaces. (bool) I am unsure how to play with the params... For example: Is snd_usb_audio enable=treu correct? Well, treu wouldn't be correct, not even in French! ;-) Why it is an /array/ of bool? I think that this is used when there is more than one device/interface/etc. where you will need to enable/disable each one. May be a last chance is with fiddling with this params? Can I rmmod/insmod snd_usb_audio while giving new params to it? How can I do that? Fortunately Module Size Used by ecryptfs 87672 3 snd_seq_dummy 1359 0 snd_seq_oss30300 0 snd_seq_midi_event 5268 1 snd_seq_oss snd_seq50559 5 snd_seq_dummy,snd_seq_oss,snd_seq_midi_event snd_pcm_oss43683 0 snd_mixer_oss 14787 1 snd_pcm_oss microcode 6787 0 nvidia 10489149 28 snd_hda_codec_via 51530 1 *** snd_usb_audio 90398 0 snd_hda_intel 20832 0 snd_hda_codec 63752 2 snd_hda_codec_via,snd_hda_intel snd_pcm73953 4 snd_pcm_oss,snd_usb_audio,snd_hda_intel,snd_hda_codec mt352 5653 1 snd_hwdep 5940 2 snd_usb_audio,snd_hda_codec 8250_pci 23504 0 snd_timer 18685 2 snd_seq,snd_pcm snd_usbmidi_lib18214 1 snd_usb_audio snd_rawmidi18484 1 snd_usbmidi_lib snd_seq_device 5197 4 snd_seq_dummy,snd_seq_oss,snd_seq,snd_rawmidi dvb_bt8xx 11873 0 bt878 7643 1 dvb_bt8xx bttv 112236 2 dvb_bt8xx,bt878 snd55623 15 snd_seq_dummy,snd_seq_oss,snd_seq,snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_hda_codec_ via,snd_usb_audio,snd_hda_intel,snd_hda_codec,snd_pcm,snd_hwdep,snd_timer,s nd_usbmidi_lib,snd_rawmidi,snd_seq_device gspca_ov53410121 0 gspca_main 22449 1 gspca_ov534 i2c_algo_bit4928 1 bttv videobuf_dma_sg 7344 1 bttv videobuf_core 15263 2 bttv,videobuf_dma_sg btcx_risc 3171 1 bttv 8250 21264 1 8250_pci serial_core18115 1 8250 pcspkr 1811 0 asus_atk01108206 0 tveeprom 13257 1 bttv k10temp 2715 0 snd_page_alloc 6793 2 snd_hda_intel,snd_pcm snd_usb_audio is not used by anything else... Years over years I had not a single problem with alsa and modules at all and this seems now be th revenge of the peace of all that years... Yes, I would definitely try switching some of these parameters on/off to see if it will make a difference. I recommend you use modprobe -v instead of insmod. So this could be: modprobe -v -r snd_usb_audio modprobe -v -n snd_usb_audio enable=yes If you don't get any horror warnings when you run it, then remove the -n option and run it again. Also, try paremeter ignore_ctl_error=1 in case it makes a difference. To make this permanent add a line in /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf options snd_usb_audio enable=yes options snd_usb_audio ignore_ctl_error=1 and restart alsa (or reboot). However, the new openrc uses a new way to start modules and dictate their configuration. So the above may not work for ever and you would need to add at some point the module and its parameters in /etc/conf.d/modules. For now I though I would leave it in
Re: [gentoo-user] Threads changing Was: OT: website design
Apparently, though unproven, at 14:44 on Sunday 05 June 2011, Indi did opine thusly: Yes, probably I'm unlikely to do it... Never did actually switch from testing to stable, it's always the other way around. Every now and then I'll delete the ~ and type emerge -vauND world, it always looks like a fracking nightmare... In fact, testing branch is remarkable good and more stable than most distro's stable branch. The gentoo devs are truly magnificent at their job. IIRC the approved way to do it is set arch to stable then just leave it alone for 6 months letting packages catch up. Keep an eye out for security bugs but otherwise do nothing. After a while emerge world will show a list that looks like it will complete without too much difficulty. Of course this just glosses over (aka completely ignores) deal-breakers like opecrc not moved to stable yet (no longer the case fortunately) -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] virtualbox update v4.0.8 trouble
Am 29.05.2011 23:59, schrieb Alan McKinnon: Apparently, though unproven, at 23:50 on Sunday 29 May 2011, Nicolai Beuermann did opine thusly: Hi, after updating to virtualbox-4.0.8 I cannot start a vm anymore. The following ebuilds are installed: app-emulation/virtualbox-4.0.8 app-emulation/virtualbox-additions-4.0.8 app-emulation/virtualbox-extpack-oracle-4.0.8 app-emulation/virtualbox-modules-4.0.8 The logs mention that symlinks are not permitted. /usr/lib64 is a symlink to /usr/lib on my system. Switch it to be the other way round which is how it should be. It works perfectly here with the exact same packages: $ ls -al /usr/ lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5 Oct 27 2010 lib - lib64 Now it works. One question remains unanswered and that is how this wrong symbolic link was created??? By portage? Please help. I don't have an idea. Nico Thank you very much. Regards Nico
Re: [gentoo-user] Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 03:11:04PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: Apparently, though unproven, at 14:44 on Sunday 05 June 2011, Indi did opine thusly: Yes, probably I'm unlikely to do it... Never did actually switch from testing to stable, it's always the other way around. Every now and then I'll delete the ~ and type emerge -vauND world, it always looks like a fracking nightmare... In fact, testing branch is remarkable good and more stable than most distro's stable branch. The gentoo devs are truly magnificent at their job. IIRC the approved way to do it is set arch to stable then just leave it alone for 6 months letting packages catch up. Keep an eye out for security bugs but otherwise do nothing. After a while emerge world will show a list that looks like it will complete without too much difficulty. That makes sense. Of course this just glosses over (aka completely ignores) deal-breakers like opecrc not moved to stable yet (no longer the case fortunately) Well, mostly I'm happy with testing. But having learned quite a bit since installing, it's an interesting question whether I'd now be able to use stable without having to mix a bunch of testing stuff to get everything working to my spec. But it's an awful lot of work to go through if I'm only going to end up back in my current position again... When I upgrade the laptop and have to do a fresh install we'll find out, maybe this fall. I do hate changing machines, but using a single core Pentium M is starting to become a bit of a disadvantage in a few ways... -- caveat utilitor ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤
[gentoo-user] Why are *.so library files executable?
Gentoo users tend to be technically adept, so I'll ask the question here: Why are *.so files set as executables? I noticed that they keep working if I do a chmod a-x on them.
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are *.so library files executable?
On Sun, 2011-06-05 at 17:43 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Gentoo users tend to be technically adept, so I'll ask the question here: Why are *.so files set as executables? I noticed that they keep working if I do a chmod a-x on them. Well, they are executables in that they are object code that are (loaded and) executed. In the olden days (pre libc6?) believe it was required form them to be both executable and by whoever wanted to run (load) them. It's probably still a requirement for other *nix systems.
Re: [gentoo-user] problem with Nvidia-drivers-270.41.06
110605 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Sunday 05 June 2011 08:01:27 Philip Webb wrote: I installed the latest stable Nvidia driver 270.41.06 X refuses to start with the message API mismatch: the client has the version 270.41.06, but this kernel module has the version 260.19.36. Please make sure that this kernel module and all NVIDIA driver components have the same version. The emerge output told me to 'modprobe -r nvidia' before restarting X, but that doesn't seem to have any effect. When I remerged 260.19.36 + 'modprobe -r nvidia', all is well again. 'linux' does not point to the src dir of the sources of the kernel you are running. Modules gets installed into the wrong directory I'm not sure how red my face sb (smile): that was the answer, but the cause of the awkward situation was a kernel bug which I reported which has still not been responded to by any of the kernel buggers. To test the bug, I installed the vanilla sources had not restored the symlink to my normal Gentoo sources dir. If only the Universe would unfold in nice straight lines ... Thanks for the (indirect) help. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are *.so library files executable?
On 5 June 2011 15:43, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@arcor.de wrote: Why are *.so files set as executables? I noticed that they keep working if I do a chmod a-x on them. You can in fact make a library be an executable at the same time, see: /lib/libc.so.6 For those that care if can be accomplished by this method: http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-help/2003-07/msg00232.html. By rights shared libraries are a form of executable, the trick however is that they have multiple entry points (whereas binaries have one). I am not entirely sure the requirement for +x is needed anymore (it certainly was in the past). Thanks Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] sntp error in rc.log post OpenRC migration
Ok, I used to get notifications in the logs about ntp syncing occasionally, letting me know it is doing its thing, but I haven't seen one since the OpenRC migration... and because of the below error, I'm concerned that it may not be working properly... Anyone? Did ntp/sntp change how it logs things? Or is this possibly due to my /var partition not being mounted yet (its on an lvm partition) when sntp tries to start? It appears to be running, but like I said, I haven't seen anything in the logs about a time sync event since I rebooted yesterday after migrating to OpenRC: myhost : Sat Jun 04, 10:53:24 : ~ # ps aux | grep ntp root 457 0.0 0.0 8036 580 pts/3R+ 10:53 0:00 grep --colour=auto ntp ntp 1802 0.0 0.0 36260 1600 ?Ss 09:34 0:00 /usr/sbin/ntpd -p /var/run/ntpd.pid -u ntp:ntp myhost : Sat Jun 04, 10:53:54 : ~ # myhost : Sat Jun 04, 15:18:57 : ~ # grep stratum /var/log/messages myhost : Sun Jun 05, 11:04:24 : ~ # On 2011-06-04 9:47 AM, Tanstaafl wrote: Ok, finally took the plunge, and as everyone else said it was pretty much anti-climactic... However, I'm getting the following error when starting sntp that I wasn't before in rc.log: * Setting clock via the NTP client 'sntp' ... 4 Jun 09:34:15 sntp[1626]: Started sntp 4 Jun 09:34:15 sntp[1626]: kod_init_kod_db(): Cannot open KoD db file /var/db/ntp-kod 4 Jun 09:34:15 sntp[1626]: Error looking up (A) no: Name or service not known 4 Jun 09:34:15 sntp[1626]: Error looking up (A) -r: Name or service not known 2011-06-04 09:34:15.356315 (+0500) -0.010584 +/- 0.038147 secs 2011-06-04 09:34:15.403387 (+0500) -0.0013 +/- 0.000488 secs 2011-06-04 09:34:15.436536 (+0500) -0.006587 +/- 0.026062 secs [ ok ] Googling the first line of the error: kod_init_kod_db(): Cannot open KoD db file /var/db/ntp-kod did come up with this 6 month old bug: https://bugs.ntp.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1681 Is there something I need to do to fix this, or is this a cosmetic/logging bug that will iron itself out with a later update? Thanks guys (and gals)...
Re: [gentoo-user] Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On 2011-06-04 5:10 PM, Indi wrote: Every single GUI MUA I ever tried would lock up and become unresponsive at times when dealing with IMAP. It happens in mutt as well, but pretty rarely and mutt can be killed and started fresh in an instant, unlike many others. My experiences with evolution, kmail, thunderbird, and opera were dreadful! Been using Thunderbird with 15+ IMAP accounts (different servers, one local, others remote) for many moons, and never had anything like what you describe... but that is on Windows (at work, that's what we use), so maybe it is different on linux...
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sun, 05 Jun 2011 01:00:01 +0200, Mick wrote about [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design: David W Noon wrote: [snip] I hope all is clear now. ... as mud! This reply of yours (unlike your previous) is shown as a new thread in Knode, not as a threaded reply to Dale's message. :@ PS. I'm responding using Knode and news.gmane.org as an NNTP server, to see what difference this may make. Well, here are some interesting header lines from my message to which you are replying: Message-ID: h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it References: gzysg-h5...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it gzysg-h5...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it X-Original-Message-ID: 20110604232200.36c03637@karnak.local X-Original-References: gzxpy-7qa...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l8...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l8...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l8...@gated-at.bofh.it gzxpy-7qa...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rr-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h05ku-3f...@gated-at.bofh.it The X-Original-Message-ID: line is a rewrite of the original Message-ID: line Claws-Mail assigned when I wrote the message. The Message-ID: line is the replacement generated by the bofh.it list server. These both look quite kosher. Now, when we look at the References: and X-Original-References: lines, we see that the list server has rewritten the message id's of all the messages referred to earlier in the thread. I find this a little strange, as it seems that the message id's sent to Usenet differ from the ones sent via email. If we now look at the innards of your message, the one to which I am currently replying, we see this: References: gzysg-h5...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it gzysg-h5...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it X-Original-References: gzxpy-7qa...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l8...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l8...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l8...@gated-at.bofh.it gzxpy-7qa...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rr-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h05ku-3f...@gated-at.bofh.it 20110604232200.36c03637@karnak.local The last message id in your X-Original-References: line has used my original message id, not the one from the Message-ID: line generated by the Gentoo list server. This should not cause problems, as the better mail and news readers should only use In-Reply-To: and References: header lines for the initial threading. I should point out that I always post by SMTP to gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org, and never through an NNTP server (not even my own). This means that you should not see my original Message-ID: line, except after it has been rewritten and replaced by the list server. So, why is KNode using my original message id for its References: line? Could you please look at the Message-ID: and X-Original-Message-ID: lines in my previous message and compare them to those I posted above? -- Regards, Dave [RLU #314465] *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* dwn...@ntlworld.com (David W Noon) *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On 06/04/2011 02:59 PM, Indi wrote: Maybe I'll put the next person who complains about evolution on thunderbird and see how they do with it... I absolutely love Thunderbird, but with one caveat... I love it because of its stability, how well it does IMAP, but most importantly, how configurable it is, both through the use of extensions, and manual edits to userChrome.css and user.js. I absolutely *loathe* the default U interface configuration. It took me about a week to figure out how to get 3.1 to where I liked it and the way I had had 2.x configured for ages... So, many people who may hate Thunderbird may just hate the default config (like I did), and may not realize how easily it is customized, so that they can have it 'their way'.
Re: [gentoo-user] Threads changing
On Sun, 05 Jun 2011 01:10:02 +0200, Dale wrote about Re: [gentoo-user] Threads changing Was: OT: website design: David W Noon wrote: [snip] I hope all is clear now. Oh, so when it gets broken, I need to find the message before that to see where it got messed up. Sorry to use the technical term messed up but it fits rather well. lol Yes and no. In fact, it is the copy of the message I have received that has the duff Message-ID: line. If you're receiving this list by email, the copy you have should have the correct message id. But it seems to be rather more complicated than I initially thought. It seems that bofh.it maintains multiple message id's for each message. See my reply to Mick Kintzios with all the cryptic message id's in it for the situation to become more blurred. Since it has just gone 5 PM, I am going to have a nice hot cup of tea to think about what all this might really mean. It's what Sherlock Holmes would have called a 3-pipe problem, but I'm a non-smoker, so I'll drink tea instead. -- Regards, Dave [RLU #314465] *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* dwn...@ntlworld.com (David W Noon) *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sunday 05 Jun 2011 13:28:40 Indi wrote: On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 12:41:42PM +0100, Mick wrote: On Sunday 05 Jun 2011 12:17:08 Indi wrote: If I were driven strictly by aesthetic concerns qt and kde4 might be my choices, as they can be extremely pleasant to look at. Heh, reminds me of my ex -- he was very pleasant to look at (and a huge amount of constant maintenance work) as well. ;) I think that your problem is that you are running ~arch and this comes with frequent updates. These days I'm running stable and my qt, kde or OOo updates are quite infrequent (like twice a year or may be less). Twice a year or less, *really*? OK, I lied: # genlop kmail * kde-base/kmail Sat Dec 18 16:46:54 2010 kde-base/kmail-4.4.7 Fri Jan 14 11:41:39 2011 kde-base/kmail-4.4.8 Sat Jan 29 10:51:11 2011 kde-base/kmail-4.4.9 Wed May 11 16:02:50 2011 kde-base/kmail-4.4.11.1 although you could argue from Jan 11 to May 11 is close to six months. The more mature kde4 becomes the fewer updates we should see. Ah! Hold on: # genlop konqueror * kde-base/konqueror Sat Dec 18 16:22:22 2010 kde-base/konqueror-4.4.5 Wed May 11 17:02:05 2011 kde-base/konqueror-4.6.2 That's more like it! :) Had no idea the difference between stable and testing was that huge... Of course the reason I'm running testing is that typically, when I install there are inevitably two or three things I can't live without that don't work in stable so I start with the ACCEPT_KEYWORDS fiddling, and eventually that snowballs into a level of complexity which frustrates me and then I just end up putting ~x86 in make.conf. Most people do the same (unmasking stuff) typically to sort out driver problems, but not necessarily go the full ~arch way. I unmask particular packages when I need to and then leave them well alone until portage catches up with those versions. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sunday 05 Jun 2011 16:43:34 Tanstaafl wrote: On 2011-06-04 5:10 PM, Indi wrote: Every single GUI MUA I ever tried would lock up and become unresponsive at times when dealing with IMAP. It happens in mutt as well, but pretty rarely and mutt can be killed and started fresh in an instant, unlike many others. My experiences with evolution, kmail, thunderbird, and opera were dreadful! Been using Thunderbird with 15+ IMAP accounts (different servers, one local, others remote) for many moons, and never had anything like what you describe... but that is on Windows (at work, that's what we use), so maybe it is different on linux... Yep! It's more stable. O_O -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sunday 05 Jun 2011 14:50:00 Indi wrote: On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 03:11:04PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: Apparently, though unproven, at 14:44 on Sunday 05 June 2011, Indi did opine thusly: Yes, probably I'm unlikely to do it... Never did actually switch from testing to stable, it's always the other way around. Every now and then I'll delete the ~ and type emerge -vauND world, it always looks like a fracking nightmare... In fact, testing branch is remarkable good and more stable than most distro's stable branch. The gentoo devs are truly magnificent at their job. IIRC the approved way to do it is set arch to stable then just leave it alone for 6 months letting packages catch up. Keep an eye out for security bugs but otherwise do nothing. After a while emerge world will show a list that looks like it will complete without too much difficulty. That makes sense. Last time I did it I waited for about 2 months. As Alan said it was a pig to get through all the blockers and what not, but I eventually got there in the end. The big disappointment was that once in stable, I would find every few weeks that (some) bugs I had reported under ~arch were now being introduced into the stable branch! Arrrgh! However, big breakages which would occur occasionally in testing were history and have been able to run stable without regretting it ever since. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] problem with Nvidia-drivers-270.41.06
On Sun, 5 Jun 2011 08:01:27 -0400, Philip Webb wrote: I don't remember running into this error previously. I suspect a problem with Openrc. Is OpenRC going to be blamed for everything from system instability to premature hair loss for the next few months? -- Neil Bothwick Top Oxymorons Number 19: Passive aggression signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Still haveing problems with audio and guvcview
On Sunday 05 Jun 2011 13:53:49 meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: this is becoming interesting beyond the goal of solving the problem as such more and more ;) Is there a way to get the default settings of the listed parameters above when the module is loading without giving any additional params on the command line? Yes. They ought to show in dmesg when the module is loaded and the device probed. Sometimes they also show if you run modprobe with -v and the debug module parameter is switched to verbose (only some modules have this parameter). They also show conveniently under alsa-info (since we're talking here about a sound module): !!Module: snd_usb_audio async_unlink : Y device_setup : 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0 enable : Y,Y,Y,Y,Y,Y,Y,Y (this is the array we were talking about and it is enabled) id : (null),(null),(null),(null),(null),(null),(null),(null) ignore_ctl_error : N (this is the ignore ctl error and is not ignored, so you could switch this to yes and see if it makes a difference) index : -1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1 nrpacks : 8 pid : -1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1 vid : -1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1 If yes, I could exclude that default setting from the list of possible working setups and additionally -- may be -- I get a hint, what to twiddle first Ideally, you should not need to tweak anything to be honest. This mechanism is to tune some modules in case there are conflicts between devices, or you want to switch on a hardware functionality which may be switched off by default (e.g. QoS, debugging, etc). -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sun, 5 Jun 2011 15:11:04 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
IIRC the approved way to do it is set arch to stable then just leave it
alone for 6 months letting packages catch up. Keep an eye out for
security bugs but otherwise do nothing. After a while emerge world will
show a list that looks like it will complete without too much
difficulty.
Alternatively, run something like
emerge -ep world | awk '/^\[ebuild/ {print ~$4}'
/etc/portage/package.accept_keywords/stabilise
Then let the system work itself back to stable as stable catches up with
your current packages.
--
Neil Bothwick
Mosquito - designed to make houseflies look better.
signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Still haveing problems with audio and guvcview
Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com [11-06-05 19:00]: On Sunday 05 Jun 2011 13:53:49 meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: this is becoming interesting beyond the goal of solving the problem as such more and more ;) Is there a way to get the default settings of the listed parameters above when the module is loading without giving any additional params on the command line? Yes. They ought to show in dmesg when the module is loaded and the device probed. Sometimes they also show if you run modprobe with -v and the debug module parameter is switched to verbose (only some modules have this parameter). They also show conveniently under alsa-info (since we're talking here about a sound module): !!Module: snd_usb_audio async_unlink : Y device_setup : 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0 enable : Y,Y,Y,Y,Y,Y,Y,Y (this is the array we were talking about and it is enabled) id : (null),(null),(null),(null),(null),(null),(null),(null) ignore_ctl_error : N (this is the ignore ctl error and is not ignored, so you could switch this to yes and see if it makes a difference) index : -1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1 nrpacks : 8 pid : -1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1 vid : -1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1 If yes, I could exclude that default setting from the list of possible working setups and additionally -- may be -- I get a hint, what to twiddle first Ideally, you should not need to tweak anything to be honest. This mechanism is to tune some modules in case there are conflicts between devices, or you want to switch on a hardware functionality which may be switched off by default (e.g. QoS, debugging, etc). -- Regards, Mick Hi Mick, thank you very much for your explanations! I have learned many things I didn't know before ... :) Hopefully I will get back audio on my cam soon. Have a nice week! Best regards, mcc
Re: [gentoo-user] Still haveing problems with audio and guvcview
On Sunday 05 Jun 2011 18:03:33 meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com [11-06-05 19:00]: On Sunday 05 Jun 2011 13:53:49 meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: this is becoming interesting beyond the goal of solving the problem as such more and more ;) Is there a way to get the default settings of the listed parameters above when the module is loading without giving any additional params on the command line? Yes. They ought to show in dmesg when the module is loaded and the device probed. Sometimes they also show if you run modprobe with -v and the debug module parameter is switched to verbose (only some modules have this parameter). They also show conveniently under alsa-info (since we're talking here about a sound module): !!Module: snd_usb_audio async_unlink : Y device_setup : 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0 enable : Y,Y,Y,Y,Y,Y,Y,Y (this is the array we were talking about and it is enabled) id : (null),(null),(null),(null),(null),(null),(null),(null) ignore_ctl_error : N (this is the ignore ctl error and is not ignored, so you could switch this to yes and see if it makes a difference) index : -1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1 nrpacks : 8 pid : -1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1 vid : -1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1 If yes, I could exclude that default setting from the list of possible working setups and additionally -- may be -- I get a hint, what to twiddle first Ideally, you should not need to tweak anything to be honest. This mechanism is to tune some modules in case there are conflicts between devices, or you want to switch on a hardware functionality which may be switched off by default (e.g. QoS, debugging, etc). Hi Mick, thank you very much for your explanations! I have learned many things I didn't know before ... :) Hopefully I will get back audio on my cam soon. Have a nice week! You're welcome. Sorry we couldn't get you going. I suggest to get in touch with the alsa devs who will be able to hopefully fix what's not working with the driver or the configuration. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] converting to gnome3--a trip report
Am 05.06.2011 14:06, schrieb David Abbott: This is it here; http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/gnome.git;a=tree;f=status;h=ae166be0beb9b279b8afda08e19ae97b7c724272;hb=HEAD thanks, yes ... I am working my way through getting it all right now (portage seems to ignore /etc/portage/profile/use.mask here ... but I am getting there step by step ...) Stefan
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sunday 05 Jun 2011 16:48:19 David W Noon wrote: On Sun, 05 Jun 2011 01:00:01 +0200, Mick wrote about [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design: David W Noon wrote: [snip] I hope all is clear now. ... as mud! This reply of yours (unlike your previous) is shown as a new thread in Knode, not as a threaded reply to Dale's message. :@ PS. I'm responding using Knode and news.gmane.org as an NNTP server, to see what difference this may make. Well, here are some interesting header lines from my message to which you are replying: Message-ID: h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it References: gzysg-h5...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it gzysg-h5...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it X-Original-Message-ID: 20110604232200.36c03637@karnak.local X-Original-References: gzxpy-7qa...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l8...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l8...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l8...@gated-at.bofh.it gzxpy-7qa...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rr-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h05ku-3f...@gated-at.bofh.it The X-Original-Message-ID: line is a rewrite of the original Message-ID: line Claws-Mail assigned when I wrote the message. The Message-ID: line is the replacement generated by the bofh.it list server. These both look quite kosher. I am getting a headache! O_O This is what Knode is showing as header references in your message that I thereafter responded using Knode and news.gmane.org: Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David W Noon dwn...@ntlworld.com Newsgroups: gmane.linux.gentoo.user Subject: Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2011 23:22:00 +0100 Organization: Luton Operatic Society Lines: 64 Approved: n...@gmane.org Message-ID: 20110604232200.36c03637@karnak.local [1] References: gzxpy-7qa...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l8...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l8...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l8...@gated-at.bofh.it gzxpy-7qa...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rr-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h05ku-3f...@gated-at.bofh.it Reply-To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1; [1] As you can see the Message ID: 20110604232200.36c03637@karnak.local shown on Usenet is different to the Message-ID: h07vY-7fk-13@gated- at.bofh.it which you mention above, but the same with your X-Original- Message-ID: 20110604232200.36c03637@karnak.local. The Usenet headers do not show any X-Original-References: in your message, at least not in my Knode. The email headers also do not show any X-Original-References: at least in my Kmail. :( Now, when we look at the References: and X-Original-References: lines, we see that the list server has rewritten the message id's of all the messages referred to earlier in the thread. I find this a little strange, as it seems that the message id's sent to Usenet differ from the ones sent via email. I'm not entirely sure that this rewriting is a list server action and wonder if it has something to do with your fetchmail setup ... If we now look at the innards of your message, the one to which I am currently replying, we see this: References: gzysg-h5...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it gzysg-h5...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it X-Original-References: gzxpy-7qa...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l8...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l8...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l8...@gated-at.bofh.it gzxpy-7qa...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rr-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h05ku-3f...@gated-at.bofh.it 20110604232200.36c03637@karnak.local The last message id in your X-Original-References: line has used my original message id, not the one from the Message-ID: line generated by the Gentoo list server. This should not cause problems, as the better mail and news readers should only use In-Reply-To: and References: header lines for the initial threading. I should point out that I always post by SMTP to gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org, and never through an NNTP server (not even my own). This
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 08:20:01PM +0200, Mick wrote: The Usenet headers do not show any X-Original-References: in your message, at least not in my Knode. They do, but apparently knode isn't showing you all headers. The email headers also do not show any X-Original-References: at least in my Kmail. :( No, in mail that header doesn't exist. The mail2news gateway recreates the Message-ID header especially for usenet and puts the original MID in X-Original-Message-ID, which is a custom header. I'm fairly certain that merely taking the X-Original-Message-ID info of the message one wishes to reply to and puting it in the In-Reply-To field of the reply is the trick to reading from usenet without breaking threads posting. The References won't matter. This post was done that way, so let me know. :) -- klaatu virada nicto
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sunday 05 Jun 2011 19:35:52 Indi wrote: On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 08:20:01PM +0200, Mick wrote: The Usenet headers do not show any X-Original-References: in your message, at least not in my Knode. They do, but apparently knode isn't showing you all headers. Well, under View source it doesn't. Nor is it showing it in the sent_3.mbox flat file where news messages are stored. Coming to think of it I just checked and google mail does not show any when you view the raw message (Show Original). The email headers also do not show any X-Original-References: at least in my Kmail. :( No, in mail that header doesn't exist. The mail2news gateway recreates the Message-ID header especially for usenet and puts the original MID in X-Original-Message-ID, which is a custom header. I'm fairly certain that merely taking the X-Original-Message-ID info of the message one wishes to reply to and puting it in the In-Reply-To field of the reply is the trick to reading from usenet without breaking threads posting. The References won't matter. This post was done that way, so let me know. :) This post only shows: Message-ID: 20110605183552.ga23...@gaurahari.merseine.nu -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sunday 05 Jun 2011 19:59:59 David W Noon wrote: On Sun, 05 Jun 2011 01:10:02 +0200, Dale wrote about Re: [gentoo-user] Threads changing Was: OT: website design: [snip] Oh, so when it gets broken, I need to find the message before that to see where it got messed up. Sorry to use the technical term messed up but it fits rather well. lol Okay, this is my second follow-up to this message, and things are becoming much clearer in my mind and somewhat more complicated in reality. The message to which I am replying has the following header lines: Message-ID: h088g-8n...@gated-at.bofh.it X-Original-Message-ID: 4deab868.6040...@gmail.com My first reply has these two header lines, the first of which should be part of the thread formation process used by a good MUA: References: h0nu6-po...@gated-at.bofh.it h0nu6-po...@gated-at.bofh.it h0nu6-po...@gated-at.bofh.it h0nu6-po...@gated-at.bofh.it h0nu6-po...@gated-at.bofh.it h0nu6-po...@gated-at.bofh.it h0nu6-po...@gated-at.bofh.it h0nu6-po...@gated-at.bofh.it h0nu6-po...@gated-at.bofh.it h0nu6-po...@gated-at.bofh.it h0nu6-po...@gated-at.bofh.it h0nu6-po...@gated-at.bofh.it h0o3m-1jx...@gated-at.bofh.it X-Original-References: gzysg-h5...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it gzysg-h5...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h088g-8n...@gated-at.bofh.it The X-Original-References: line has the correct message id as the last one in the list. This absolutely correct, which means that Claws-Mail is doing the right thing. The References: line has some really weird replacements for the ones that were originally in the message I submitted. Unless list messages are being assigned different message id's for different distribution mechanisms (SMTP/POP3 and NNTP), this means the list server is broken. This would be a third, and more pernicious, source of thread breakage. In my previous reply to this message, I changed the Subject: line slightly: I removed the Was OT: website design tail. This caused the thread to break in my MUA too. In turn, this implies that Claws was wallpapering over the crack by rejoining the thread using Subject: and Date: headers to put the messages into chronological sequence within Subject: text grouping. I suspect other MUAs are doing the same, which is why the problem is not perceived more widely. I now need to change my subscription details so that I receive messages by email, as well as through Usenet. This will then tell me if message id's are the same across delivery mechanisms or different. Are we all confused enough for this weekend? ... :-) Ha, ha! I'm more than others it seems! Also have a look at gmane. Some of your responses (and Indi's) are broken. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 08:17:53PM +0100, Mick wrote: On Sunday 05 Jun 2011 19:35:52 Indi wrote: On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 08:20:01PM +0200, Mick wrote: The Usenet headers do not show any X-Original-References: in your message, at least not in my Knode. They do, but apparently knode isn't showing you all headers. Well, under View source it doesn't. Nor is it showing it in the sent_3.mbox flat file where news messages are stored. Coming to think of it I just checked and google mail does not show any when you view the raw message (Show Original). The email headers also do not show any X-Original-References: at least in my Kmail. :( No, in mail that header doesn't exist. The mail2news gateway recreates the Message-ID header especially for usenet and puts the original MID in X-Original-Message-ID, which is a custom header. I'm fairly certain that merely taking the X-Original-Message-ID info of the message one wishes to reply to and puting it in the In-Reply-To field of the reply is the trick to reading from usenet without breaking threads posting. The References won't matter. This post was done that way, so let me know. :) This post only shows: Message-ID: 20110605183552.ga23...@gaurahari.merseine.nu Yes, but does it appear correctly threaded? BTW this sort of thing is just one example of why I prefer mutt. Not sure why some MUAs and newsreaders insist on making a secret of the original, actual, message headers, but I tend not to trust software that does that sort of thing. Probably it's just the result of a misguided no-one wants all that 'extra' info cluttering things up belief, but you never know. -- klaatu virada nicto
Re: [gentoo-user] Threads changing Was: OT: website design
David W Noon wrote: Are we all confused enough for this weekend? ... :-) Ya'll lost me long ago. What exactly is past confusion anyway? I think that is where I am now. Dale :-) :-)
[gentoo-user] Default applications
Hello list, I am very sorry if it is just a basic question but I failed to get google to help me. Could someone point me how to set up default applications, so automagical applications like skype, firefox and similar would understand what is my default browser, mail client and so on. Up to now I was using BROWSER environmental variable, which seemed to help me. However, I want more integration of applications now. Thanks a lot, Ignas A.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
Apparently, though unproven, at 21:36 on Sunday 05 June 2011, Indi did opine thusly: This post was done that way, so let me know. :) This post only shows: Message-ID: 20110605183552.ga23...@gaurahari.merseine.nu Yes, but does it appear correctly threaded? Yes, it is now correct. KMail threads it correctly using it's perfect setting - not using references and subject lines. The last 5 messages all thread correctly back to this one by David: Message-ID: 20110605164819.0b013841@karnak.local -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Default applications
On Sunday 05 June 2011 20:54:01 Ignas Anikevicius wrote: Hello list, I am very sorry if it is just a basic question but I failed to get google to help me. Could someone point me how to set up default applications, so automagical applications like skype, firefox and similar would understand what is my default browser, mail client and so on. Up to now I was using BROWSER environmental variable, which seemed to help me. However, I want more integration of applications now. Thanks a lot, Ignas A. .local/share/applications/mimeapps.list -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] Default applications
Ignas Anikevicius wrote: Hello list, I am very sorry if it is just a basic question but I failed to get google to help me. Could someone point me how to set up default applications, so automagical applications like skype, firefox and similar would understand what is my default browser, mail client and so on. Up to now I was using BROWSER environmental variable, which seemed to help me. However, I want more integration of applications now. Thanks a lot, Ignas A. If you use KDE, system settings, default applications, then adjust your settings there. I'm not sure which GUI you use since you didn't mention it so this may or may not help. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Default applications
On 05/06/11 21:34, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: .local/share/applications/mimeapps.list Thanks, I have found that, but I failed to find any documentation on what is the syntax of the file as this file on my laptop is very sparse. I.
Re: [gentoo-user] Default applications
On 05/06/11 21:57, Dale wrote: If you use KDE, system settings, default applications, then adjust your settings there. I'm not sure which GUI you use since you didn't mention it so this may or may not help. Dale :-) :-) Thanks, for help. I am using Awesome WM without any DE. If I used smth different with a DE, then it would be way easier as there are GUI tools for customizing most of the options. Ignas -- Q: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. A: Why is putting a reply at the top of the message frowned upon?
Re: [gentoo-user] Default applications
Ignas Anikevicius wrote: On 05/06/11 21:34, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: .local/share/applications/mimeapps.list Thanks, I have found that, but I failed to find any documentation on what is the syntax of the file as this file on my laptop is very sparse. I. This is what is in my file. Maybe this will help with the syntax, a little anyway. [Added Associations] application/xml=scribus.desktop; text/plain=kde4-kwrite.desktop;writer.desktop;kde4-kate.desktop; video/x-flv=smplayer.desktop;kde-kmplayer.desktop;gnome-mplayer.desktop; Hope that helps. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sun, 05 Jun 2011 20:20:01 +0200, Mick wrote about Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design: [snip] This is what Knode is showing as header references in your message that I thereafter responded using Knode and news.gmane.org: Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail Bingo! We have our culprit. Here is my Path: header for your message: Path: mx04.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org! feeder.eternal-september.org!newsfeed.x-privat.org!bofh.it!news.nic.it! robomod A Path: line is read from right to left. This means that the message started at robomod -- which is a mail-news gateway, most likely from the list server -- and then went via NNTP to news.nic.it and then to bofh.it. Only at this stage were the message id's modified!! This is not the list server, as I had previously thought, but some newsserver that has penchant for corrupting header lines. Perhaps the BOFH description is appropriate. ... :-) [For those not old enough to remember, here is a link to the original: http://bofh.ntk.net/BOFH/index.php ] The upshot is that anybody who reads this list through an NNTP server that is downstream from bofh.it will be replying with bogus message id's. This will cause thread breakage whenever a reader's MUA cannot rebuild the thread from Subject: and Date: header lines. Just *why* the bofh.it server does this to the message id's has me baffled. -- Regards, Dave [RLU #314465] *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* dwn...@ntlworld.com (David W Noon) *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] Cannot mount USB stick using Dolphin
Both consolekit and polkit are running. What could be the problem? $ ps axf | grep polkit 8961 pts/1SN+0:00 \_ grep --color=auto polkit 5678 ?Sl 0:00 /usr/libexec/polkitd $ ps axf | grep console 5594 ?Ssl0:00 /usr/sbin/console-kit-daemon 9088 pts/1SN+0:00 \_ grep --color=auto console I'm starting e17 WM running startx on this box, unlike another similarly configured machine where mounting devices works fine but I start that with /etc/init.d/xdm (kdm). -- Regards, Mick
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
David W Noon wrote: On Sun, 05 Jun 2011 20:20:01 +0200, Mick wrote about Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design: [snip] This is what Knode is showing as header references in your message that I thereafter responded using Knode and news.gmane.org: Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail Bingo! We have our culprit. Here is my Path: header for your message: Path: mx04.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org! feeder.eternal-september.org!newsfeed.x-privat.org!bofh.it!news.nic.it! robomod A Path: line is read from right to left. This means that the message started at robomod -- which is a mail-news gateway, most likely from the list server -- and then went via NNTP to news.nic.it and then to bofh.it. Only at this stage were the message id's modified!! This is not the list server, as I had previously thought, but some newsserver that has penchant for corrupting header lines. Perhaps the BOFH description is appropriate. ... :-) [For those not old enough to remember, here is a link to the original: http://bofh.ntk.net/BOFH/index.php ] The upshot is that anybody who reads this list through an NNTP server that is downstream from bofh.it will be replying with bogus message id's. This will cause thread breakage whenever a reader's MUA cannot rebuild the thread from Subject: and Date: header lines. Just *why* the bofh.it server does this to the message id's has me baffled. By the way, your reply started a new thread, either yours or the previous message broke something. I'm not quite so confused now. This didn't help any: Bastard Operator From Hell (/BOFH/) This is another way of reading that but there may be a few ladies on here. ;-) I now realize that you are talking about a news server thingy. lol Cleared up a little mud at least. lol Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sun, 05 Jun 2011 21:30:01 +0200, Mick wrote about Re: [gentoo-user] Threads changing Was: OT: website design: On Sunday 05 Jun 2011 19:59:59 David W Noon wrote: [snip] Are we all confused enough for this weekend? ... :-) Ha, ha! I'm more than others it seems! It has been a knotty problem. Also have a look at gmane. Some of your responses (and Indi's) are broken. Indi and I both use the same NNTP server to poll the list, so we both get the same munged message id's. -- Regards, Dave [RLU #314465] *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* dwn...@ntlworld.com (David W Noon) *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 David W Noon wrote: On Sun, 05 Jun 2011 21:30:01 +0200, Mick wrote about Re: [gentoo-user] Threads changing Was: OT: website design: On Sunday 05 Jun 2011 19:59:59 David W Noon wrote: [snip] Are we all confused enough for this weekend? ... :-) Ha, ha! I'm more than others it seems! It has been a knotty problem. Also have a look at gmane. Some of your responses (and Indi's) are broken. Indi and I both use the same NNTP server to poll the list, so we both get the same munged message id's. I guess next step is to contact the offending NNTP server admin and ask them to fix their header munging algorithms? PS. This is sent via Knode/news.gmane.org - -- Regards, Mick -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux) iEUEARECAAYFAk3sATAACgkQVTDTR3kpaLYkAgCeOBYU3E4Mj80vPCcxRD//JgTN TG8AliNdJatG657/hI3FVBj8ZbAmdG0= =40L7 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sun, 05 Jun 2011 17:06:28 -0500, Dale wrote about Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design: [snip] By the way, your reply started a new thread, either yours or the previous message broke something. That's because I was replying to Mick's message from the NNTP server news.eternal-september.org. It is downstream from bofh.it. This reply should not break threading, as I am replying to your message received directly from the mailing list. [I have switched my subscription from nomail to mail.] I'm not quite so confused now. This didn't help any: Bastard Operator From Hell (/BOFH/) Well, if you read the BOFH stories, you will find that the central character has a penchant for treating users with contempt. This is another way of reading that but there may be a few ladies on here. ;-) I now realize that you are talking about a news server thingy. lol Cleared up a little mud at least. lol Well, I'm glad we have sorted out the mystery. I don't know if we can get the sysadmin to fix the rogue newsserver. -- Regards, Dave [RLU #314465] *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* dwn...@ntlworld.com (David W Noon) *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Where be the hardened Stage3?
On 06/03/2011 01:01 PM, Pandu Poluan wrote: -original message- Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Where be the hardened Stage3? From: Michael Orlitzky mich...@orlitzky.com Date: 2011-06-03 23:05 On 06/03/11 09:28, Pandu Poluan wrote: Anyone knows why current-stage3/ no longer has the hardened stage3 tarballs? Try this for now? http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/amd64/autobuilds/ Thanks, found that when I spelunked into the deep underbelly of the intarwebz :) The question still remains, though: Why not in current-stage3/ ? Any serious technical issues that'll kill my puppies? (Lest I be misunderstood: if it's the council's decision, I'm not for nor against the decision. Just curious, is all.) I asked on the hardened list and haven't heard anything for a few days. We might just have to wait until someone notices and fixes it.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
David W Noon wrote: Well, I'm glad we have sorted out the mystery. I don't know if we can get the sysadmin to fix the rogue newsserver. I know one thing, ya'll beat it to death trying to figure out what was breaking it. You are likely right tho, they may not care if it is fixed or not. Maybe if enough people complained. Surely there are lots of people that still use threading to follow topics. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing
On Sun, 05 Jun 2011 23:20:22 +0100, Mick wrote about [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design: I guess next step is to contact the offending NNTP server admin and ask them to fix their header munging algorithms? I wouldn't hold my breath. PS. This is sent via Knode/news.gmane.org Gmane does not propagate it to Usenet, as its newsgroup is a private one. Instead, it has these headers: X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org which would indicate that it sends the message to the Gentoo list server. I received it with the newer message id's as at origin, so this follow-up should thread correctly. -- Regards, Dave [RLU #314465] *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* dwn...@ntlworld.com (David W Noon) *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Reboot after kjournald starting
Alan McKinnon writes: Apparently, though unproven, at 18:57 on Saturday 04 June 2011, Alex Schuster did opine thusly: A mother board died, so I put the hard drives into an old spare PC, rebuilt the kernel via chroot in order to include some necessary drivers, and all was well. Until I plugged in the 2nd hard drive. Then, the thing reboots after these messages: [...] VFS: Mounted root (ext3 filesystem) readonly on device 8:6 Freeing unused kernel memory: 304k freed kjournald starting. Commit interval 5 seconds Instead, I think init should start. When I unplug the drive, it boots fine. Most obvious things first: What does the system present that BIOS as? Hmm, I cannot parse that sentence. The BIOS shows the identical SATA drives as 3rd and 4th master devices. These are the only hard drives Is it now trying to boot off the second drive? No. sdb5 is a clone of sda5, but an older version, so I know that sda5's Grub is running. It loads the right kernel (there is no initramfs), then reboots. And even if the root=/dev/sda6 kernel parameter would find the wrong drive, it should just boot, as sdb6 also is a valid root partition (it's a rdiff-backup of sda6). For the moment, I unplugged the backup drive. I also had to add a --partial to the vgchange command in /lib/rcscripts/addons/lvm-start.sh, so the init script would not return an error because of missing physical volumes for a volume group that spans both drives. Which looks like a bug to me, I think this init script should be more tolerant. I may get another PC as replacement soon, so maybe this problem will go away then. It was working well in the old PC, the only change I made was to compile a new kernel, because the current PC has other IDE hardware than the old one. Wonko
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 10:16:01PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: Apparently, though unproven, at 21:36 on Sunday 05 June 2011, Indi did opine thusly: This post was done that way, so let me know. :) This post only shows: Message-ID: 20110605183552.ga23...@gaurahari.merseine.nu Yes, but does it appear correctly threaded? Yes, it is now correct. KMail threads it correctly using it's perfect setting - not using references and subject lines. The last 5 messages all thread correctly back to this one by David: Message-ID: 20110605164819.0b013841@karnak.local Thanks! -- klaatu virada nicto
[gentoo-user] thunderbird fixed folders?
So, following several suggestions I emerge thunderbird for testing, and the first thing I noticed is it does what people insist it doesn't do: creates redundant Trash and Drafts folders, both locally and (cardinal sin) on the remote server! So now in mutt there are all these redundant mail folders screwing up my carefully created IMAP structure. So, merely invoking thunderbird has created a mess. Doesn't appear to be fixable... Hopefully I'm wrong and there's a trick to it? -- klaatu virada nicto
[gentoo-user] Re: thunderbird fixed folders? [SOLVED]
On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 08:07:24PM -0400, Indi wrote: So, following several suggestions I emerge thunderbird for testing, and the first thing I noticed is it does what people insist it doesn't do: creates redundant Trash and Drafts folders, both locally and (cardinal sin) on the remote server! So now in mutt there are all these redundant mail folders screwing up my carefully created IMAP structure. So, merely invoking thunderbird has created a mess. Doesn't appear to be fixable... Hopefully I'm wrong and there's a trick to it? Ok, got it -- weirdly enough, one has to use the CLI to address this. The GUI preferences dialog doesn't have a provision for making t-bird not create unwanted folders, but once they're created can be deleted in ~/.thunderbird/ and then they don't come back when t-bird is restarted. Now it's running with only the remote and local IMAP structures as they're supposed to be. -- klaatu virada nicto
Re: [gentoo-user] problem with Nvidia-drivers-270.41.06
Is OpenRC going to be blamed for everything from system instability to premature hair loss for the next few months? You know it will. Network guy makes change System guy You broke the network my application isnt working Network guy I just tried connecting to the service, and its not running, try starting the application Firewall guy makes a change Network guy You're blocking access, i cant ping Firewall guy I ran a trace and there is no route. Try adding one
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On 06/05/2011 11:51 AM, Tanstaafl wrote: On 06/04/2011 02:59 PM, Indi wrote: Maybe I'll put the next person who complains about evolution on thunderbird and see how they do with it... I absolutely love Thunderbird, but with one caveat... I love it because of its stability, how well it does IMAP, but most importantly, how configurable it is, both through the use of extensions, and manual edits to userChrome.css and user.js. I absolutely *loathe* the default U interface configuration. It took me about a week to figure out how to get 3.1 to where I liked it and the way I had had 2.x configured for ages... So, many people who may hate Thunderbird may just hate the default config (like I did), and may not realize how easily it is customized, so that they can have it 'their way'. I see what you mean about the default config, LOL. Been trying to change the font sizes used for the message list and folder pane, but no success yet. Makes it a bit hard to see things but other than that it seems pretty nice once you remove the redundant folders it creates by default. It's much more responsive than the last version I tested, a huge improvement in fact. Just need to figure out what determines those list fonts -- it's in here somewhere... -- caveat utilitor ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫
