Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Recommend a good replacement for XFCE?

[Philip Webb]

160925 Grant Edwards wrote:
> So far I've looked at Windowmaker and LXDE.

You should look at Fluxbox, which is simple & configurable.
I don't know whether it can handle multiple monitors,
but otherwise I've used it happily for some years.

-- 
,,
SUPPORT ___//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT`-O--O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: TCP Queuing problem

[Grant]

>> >> I haven't mentioned it yet, but several times I've seen the website
>> >> perform fine all day until I browse to it myself and then all of a
>> >> sudden it's super slow for me and my third-party monitor.  WTF???
>> >
>> > I had a similar problems once when routing through a IPsec VPN
>> > tunnnel. I needed to reduce MTU in front of the tunnel to make it
>> > work correctly. But I think your problem is different.
>>
>>
>> I'm not using IPsec or a VPN.
>>
>>
>> > Does the http server backlog on the other side? Do you have
>> > performance graphs for other parts of the system to see them in
>> > relation? Maybe some router on the path doesn't work as expected.
>>
>>
>> I've attached a graph of http response time, CPU usage, and TCP
>> queueing over the past week.  It seems clear from watching top, iotop,
>> and free than my CPU is always the bottleneck on my server.
>
> What kind of application stack is running in the http server? CPU is a
> bottleneck you cannot always circumvent by throwing more CPUs at the
> problem. Maybe that stack needs tuning...
>
> At the point when requests start queuing up in the http server, the load
> on the server will exponentially rise. It's like a traffic jam on a
> multi lane high way. If one car brakes, thinks may still work. If a car
> in every lane brakes, you suddenly have a huge traffic jam backlogging
> a few miles. And it takes time to recover from that. You need to solve
> the cause for "braking" in the first place and add some alternative
> routes for "cars that never brake" (static files and cacheable
> content). Each lane corresponds to one CPU. Adding just more lanes when
> you have just 4 CPUs will only make the lanes slower. The key is to
> drastically lower the response times which are much too high if I look
> at your graphs. What do memory and IO say?


It turned out this was a combination of two problems which made it
much more difficult to figure out.

First of all I didn't have enough apache2 processes.  That seems like
it should have been obvious but it wasn't for two reasons.  Firstly,
my apache2 processes are always idle or nearly idle, even when traffic
levels are high.  But it must be the case that each request made to
nginx which is then handed off to apache2 monopolizes an apache2
process even though my backend application server is the one using all
the CPU instead of apache2.  The other thing that made it difficult to
track down was the way munin graphs apache2 processes.  On my graph,
busy and free processes only appeared as tiny dots at the bottom
because apache2's ServerLimit is drawn on the same graph which is many
times greater than the number of busy and free processes.  It would be
better to draw MaxClients instead of ServerLimit since I think
MaxClients is more likely to be tuned.  It at least appears in the
default config file on Gentoo.  Since busy and free apache2 processes
were virtually invisible on the munin graph, I wasn't able to
correlate their ebb and flow with my server's response times.

Once I fixed the apache2 problem, I was sure I had it nailed.  That's
when I emailed here a few days ago to say I think I got it.  But it
turned out there was another problem and that was Odoo (formerly known
as OpenERP) which is also running in a reverse proxy configuration
behind nginx.  Whenever someone uses Odoo on my server, it absolutely
destroys performance for my non-Odoo website.  That would have been
really easy to test and I did test stopping the odoo service early on,
but I ruled it out when the problem persisted after stopping Odoo
which I now realize must have been because of the apache2 problem.

So this was much more difficult to figure out due to the fact that I
had multiple problems interacting with each other.

- Grant

[gentoo-user] Re: Recommend a good replacement for XFCE?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2016-09-23, Grant Edwards  wrote:

[need to pick new desktop environment -- which could just be a window
manager with a couple extra bits]

So far I 've looked at windowmaker  and LXDE
.

Windowmaker seems a bit too oriented towards "icons on the desktop"
which isn't how I want to work.  It's possible that I could coerce
windowmaker into acting more like I want it to. But, in my experience,
you can tell by the default configuration how the developers think and
how they intend something to be used.  The further away that is from
what you want, the more of a struggle it is (even if in theory you
should be able configure it do what you want).

LXDE looked good.  After a few minutes playing with Lubuntu, I had a
single-screen screen setup I was happy with.  I also built lxde-meta
and tried that on a single screen machine. That worked fine.

However, when I built lxde-meta and tried it on a 3-screen machine, it
fell over pretty badly.

All three screens had wallpaper, but that's all that two of them had.
Two of them had no window manager, no panels, no root menu -- nothing
other than wallpaper and the defult X11 "X" cursor.

I knew that the openbox window manager (used by LXDE) uses a separate
instance for each screen.  It seems that the LXDE startup stuff
doesn't know that.  I started openbox manually on the two "extra"
screens and it seemed happy.

However, I was still without panels or root window stuff on two of the
three screens.  When creating a new LXDE panel, there's no way to
specify what screen it goes on.  I tried manually starting instances
of lxpanel on the other two screens, and lxpanel just complains that
there is already a running instance and quits.

So, no panels for screens 2 and 3.

AFAICT, under LXDE, pcmanfm is what's supposed to own/manage the root
window. It was equally (if differently) broken: I could run it on the
other screens, but it always opened windows on the screen 1.

I liked openbox though, so if LXDE refuses to handle multiple screens
I may stick with openbox and try to find some other panel program that
does work with multiple screens.

I may try MATE next, but I'm not optimistic.  All references I can
find to multiple screens in the MATE docs are not actually talking
about multiple X11 screens.  They're talking about a single X11 screen
spread across multiple monitors using twinview or xinerama or xrandr.

-- 
Grant Edwards   grant.b.edwardsYow! I'm wearing PAMPERS!!
  at   
  gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Dale]

Christopher Robinson wrote:
> Neil, 
> There you go again twisting my words.I never said it compiles to a graphic 
> desktop. I said it gets
> to one, after compiling. Try to read more carefully, will you?
> Please keep to your promise not to respond to my posts.

Either way, what you said is not correct.  As I posted in another reply,
the media doesn't compile anything to get to a GUI or desktop. 
Actually, it doesn't compile anything at all.  It only boots and gives
you a command prompt which is all you need to start installing Gentoo. 
So far, the very first reply Neil gave seems to be the most accurate
advice.  Based on the very limited info you have provided, it seems you
have not even started the install process.  You think you have but you
have only booted the media and not much else beyond that. 

Several of us are trying to help you with this process but you are not
helping yourself by responding to only a few messages with info that is
either wrong or has nothing whatsoever to do with the problem.  I posted
a reply hours ago asking some questions about what you have done and if
you recall doing them.  You seem to have ignored that message
completely.  If you can't answer our questions so that we can figure out
just where in the process you are, then we can't help you. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Christopher Robinson]

Neil, 
There you go again twisting my words.I never said it compiles to a graphic 
desktop. I said it gets
to one, after compiling. Try to read more carefully, will you?
Please keep to your promise not to respond to my posts.

 n Sat, 9/24/16, Neil Bothwick  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 7:15 PM
 
 On Sat, 24 Sep 2016
 22:42:00 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:
 
 >  I appreciate this reply. I did assume
 that after I booted the minimal
 > install
 and the files compiled I could get to a graphic desktop.
 That
 > is what happens with the Live DVD,
 in spite of the fact that Neil sees
 > no
 difference bewteen the two.
 
 Thank you for that clarification. I always
 appreciate being told what I
 think by
 someone who doesn't know me.
 
 The Live DVD does not compile a graphic
 desktop, it does not know which
 one you
 want. It may boot to a graphic desktop but that is a
 completely
 different thing and has no
 bearing on the installation process.
 
 
 -- 
 Neil
 Bothwick
 
 Justify my text?
 I'm sorry but it has no excuse.

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 22:37:55 +, J. Roeleveld wrote:

> >Does anyone else yearn for the good old days of usenet and the "lurk
> >for
> >seven days" rule? Or did my laser eye surgery involve an excessive
> >amount
> >of rose tinting? ;-)  
> 
> I actually don't remember that rule. But when simply following the
> netiquette guidelines, it was really simple to get quick, friendly and
> helpful responses.

It was part of netiquette, at least in the areas of usenet that I
inhabited, that you lurked for seven days after joining a group and only
posted once you were aware of the conventions and people involved.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Multitasking: Reading in the bathroom.


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Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 22:42:00 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:

>  I appreciate this reply. I did assume that after I booted the minimal
> install and the files compiled I could get to a graphic desktop. That
> is what happens with the Live DVD, in spite of the fact that Neil sees
> no difference bewteen the two.

Thank you for that clarification. I always appreciate being told what I
think by someone who doesn't know me.

The Live DVD does not compile a graphic desktop, it does not know which
one you want. It may boot to a graphic desktop but that is a completely
different thing and has no bearing on the installation process.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Justify my text? I'm sorry but it has no excuse.


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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Dale]

Christopher Robinson wrote:
>
>  I appreciate this reply. I did assume that after I booted the minimal 
> install and the files compiled
> I could get to a graphic desktop. That is what happens with the Live DVD, in 
> spite of the fact that 
> Neil sees no difference bewteen the two. II now understand that there is no 
> installer. The password/
> user again was based on a mistaken similarity between the minimal install and 
> the Live DVD.
> My thinking was that the minimal install required a password/user to run 
> whereas the Live DVD
> did not.
>
>

I'm not real sure what you are replying to at this point.  This message
starts a new thread and the quote and what you are posting doesn't
exactly match up.  Moving on.

First, the media, whatever you use, doesn't compile anything.  It just
boots the computer and gives you a prompt.  If you want a GUI, OK, it
works but it is by no means needed since it doesn't install anything
from the media anyway.   To me, a GUI just gets in the way.  Installing
Gentoo requires a command prompt not a GUI.  By the way, GUI and desktop
is basically the same thing. 

Second, when you boot the media, whatever media you use, you still have
to do the install the same way. 

Third, the only reason I can think of that you would need to set a
password on the media is if you plan to ssh into the system and install
it over that.  I know here, the only password or user info I set is when
I'm in the chroot for the new install, and close to the end of the
install at that.  So, once again, Neil is right.  Whether you are using
a minimal media or the live version, you still have to do the same
things to install Gentoo.  There is no easy way to install Gentoo.  They
tried a installer, I even tested it a couple times, but it didn't last
long.  I might add, I never got it to work here.  I wouldn't recommend
using it even if they did have one. 

Since at this point I don't think any of us have a real clue as to where
you are, I'd recommend starting over.  Boot the media and then start
there in the guide.  Follow that guide step by step.  If you get to
something that doesn't match your hardware or fails for some reason,
post here with as much info as you can.  When I say as much as you can,
anything relevant. 

That's my $0.02 worth. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[J. Roeleveld]

On September 25, 2016 12:42:00 AM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson 
 wrote:
>
>
>
>On Sat, 9/24/16, J. Roeleveld  wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 6:25 PM
> 
> On September 25, 2016
> 12:10:59 AM GMT+02:00, Dutch Ingraham  wrote:
> >On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 09:49:07PM +,
> J. Roeleveld wrote:
> >> On September
> 24, 2016 11:42:23 PM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson
> >
> wrote:Joost,
>
>I appreciate this reply. I did assume that after I booted the minimal
>install and the files compiled
>I could get to a graphic desktop. That is what happens with the Live
>DVD, in spite of the fact that 
>Neil sees no difference bewteen the two. II now understand that there
>is no installer. The password/
>user again was based on a mistaken similarity between the minimal
>install and the Live DVD.
>My thinking was that the minimal install required a password/user to
>run whereas the Live DVD
>did not.
>
>
> >> >Joost you should not be
> responding to people seeking help. Your
> >> >attititude is offensive.
> >> 
> >> Please do
> enlighten us. What part of the email you are responding
> to
> >is offensive?
> >
> >
> >I'd just like to
> take a moment and commend the regular posters to this
> >list, from whom I have learned much over
> the last few years, for
> >showing
> >what is, in my opinion, great restraint and
> civility towards the OP. 
> >If
> >he had walked into *my house* and
> immediately began chastising the
> >locals
> and lecturing them on how they should act, well, I may not
> have
> >been able to be so charitable. 
> Well done, chaps!
> 
> 
> Not going to fall into the obvious trap leading
> to politics and immigration. :)
> (Sorry, too
> much of that going on in the world)
> 
> I actually find it's a lot more fun to stay
> civil. It might also help in solving the actual issue the OP
> is having.
> 
> --
> Joost
> 
> --
> 
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail.
> Please excuse my brevity.
> 
> 

If you want to install Gentoo. Go back to the first reply, by Neil, and follow 
the handbook.

When you encounter problems, please point to the part of the handbook you are 
stuck with.

Please also include information on any choices you made along the way and any 
deviations from the handbook until the point you are stuck with.

--
Joost
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Christopher Robinson]

On Sat, 9/24/16, J. Roeleveld  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 6:25 PM
 
 On September 25, 2016
 12:10:59 AM GMT+02:00, Dutch Ingraham  wrote:
 >On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 09:49:07PM +,
 J. Roeleveld wrote:
 >> On September
 24, 2016 11:42:23 PM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson
 >
 wrote:Joost,

 I appreciate this reply. I did assume that after I booted the minimal install 
and the files compiled
I could get to a graphic desktop. That is what happens with the Live DVD, in 
spite of the fact that 
Neil sees no difference bewteen the two. II now understand that there is no 
installer. The password/
user again was based on a mistaken similarity between the minimal install and 
the Live DVD.
My thinking was that the minimal install required a password/user to run 
whereas the Live DVD
did not.


 >> >Joost you should not be
 responding to people seeking help. Your
 >> >attititude is offensive.
 >> 
 >> Please do
 enlighten us. What part of the email you are responding
 to
 >is offensive?
 >
 >
 >I'd just like to
 take a moment and commend the regular posters to this
 >list, from whom I have learned much over
 the last few years, for
 >showing
 >what is, in my opinion, great restraint and
 civility towards the OP. 
 >If
 >he had walked into *my house* and
 immediately began chastising the
 >locals
 and lecturing them on how they should act, well, I may not
 have
 >been able to be so charitable. 
 Well done, chaps!
 
 
 Not going to fall into the obvious trap leading
 to politics and immigration. :)
 (Sorry, too
 much of that going on in the world)
 
 I actually find it's a lot more fun to stay
 civil. It might also help in solving the actual issue the OP
 is having.
 
 --
 Joost
 
 --
 
 Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail.
 Please excuse my brevity.
 
 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[J. Roeleveld]

On September 25, 2016 12:30:42 AM GMT+02:00, Neil Bothwick  
wrote:
>On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 21:42:23 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:
>
>> Joost you should not be responding to people seeking help. Your
>> attititude is offensive. Joachim and Rich have made positive
>> suggestions. Sorry about top posting, but today is my first day on
>the
>> list.
>
>Does anyone else yearn for the good old days of usenet and the "lurk
>for
>seven days" rule? Or did my laser eye surgery involve an excessive
>amount
>of rose tinting? ;-)

I actually don't remember that rule. But when simply following the netiquette 
guidelines, it was really simple to get quick, friendly and helpful responses.

I always bottom post in my emails.
Only exception being when using work email. And that is because there people 
tend to not understand it at all and stop reading as soon as they see any 
quoted part of the email.

There, I accept it as I am being paid.

Here, I expect common courtesy in following the status quo as it is on a 
voluntary basis.

Why are more and more people expecting to be able to act in a non civil manner 
and still get high quality support without paying for it?

--
Joost


-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 21:42:23 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:

> Joost you should not be responding to people seeking help. Your
> attititude is offensive. Joachim and Rich have made positive
> suggestions. Sorry about top posting, but today is my first day on the
> list.

Does anyone else yearn for the good old days of usenet and the "lurk for
seven days" rule? Or did my laser eye surgery involve an excessive amount
of rose tinting? ;-)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

This universe is sold by mass, not by volume.
Some expansion may have occurred during shipment


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Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[J. Roeleveld]

On September 25, 2016 12:10:59 AM GMT+02:00, Dutch Ingraham  wrote:
>On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 09:49:07PM +, J. Roeleveld wrote:
>> On September 24, 2016 11:42:23 PM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson
> wrote:
>> >Joost you should not be responding to people seeking help. Your
>> >attititude is offensive.
>> 
>> Please do enlighten us. What part of the email you are responding to
>is offensive?
>
>
>I'd just like to take a moment and commend the regular posters to this
>list, from whom I have learned much over the last few years, for
>showing
>what is, in my opinion, great restraint and civility towards the OP. 
>If
>he had walked into *my house* and immediately began chastising the
>locals and lecturing them on how they should act, well, I may not have
>been able to be so charitable.  Well done, chaps!


Not going to fall into the obvious trap leading to politics and immigration. :)
(Sorry, too much of that going on in the world)

I actually find it's a lot more fun to stay civil. It might also help in 
solving the actual issue the OP is having.

--
Joost

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 20:43:58 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:

> Funny how you used XXX when I SPECIFCALLY mentioned mentioned the LIVE
> DVD as opposed to the minimal install cd. That was the whole point
> which you missed in jumping to conclusions about my ignorance. 

I know you mentioned a specific CD, I just typed XXX to save going back
through the broken threads to find the actual disc you referred to.
However it should be clear that my initial response was relevant to the
disc you mentioned as I quoted that particular question, and nothing
else, n my initial response.

I offered advice to you, which you were free to accept, reject or to
respond to with abuse. Based on your choice, you will be pleased  to know
that I won't be wasting any more of my time or yours by responding
further.

> 
> On Sat, 9/24/16, Neil Bothwick  wrote:
> 
>  Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
>  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
>  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:38 PM
>  
>  On Sat, 24 Sep 2016
>  20:31:13 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:
>  
>  > You are giving a generic  
>  answer to what you see as a generic question.
>  > I really can't  play 20 questions by  
>  repeating over until the light
>  > comes  
>  on.
>  
>  I'm sorry, but
>  "Can I install from disc XXX?" is a generic
>  question.
>  
>  The more specific
>  and detailed the question, the more specific and
>  detailed the answers. But the response was
>  given freely and it's entirely
>  up to you
>  what you do with it.
>  
>  
>  
>  > On Sat, 9/24/16, Neil Bothwick   
>  wrote:
>  > 
>  >  Subject:  
>  Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
>  >  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
>  >  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:21  
>  PM
>  >  
>  >  On Sat, 24  
>  Sep 2016
>  >  15:05:24 + (UTC),  
>  Christopher Robinson wrote:
>  >  
>  >  > Honestly, your reply is  
>  >  not helpful. I have read through the  
>  the
>  >  > handbook and the directions  
>  there do not  
>  >  match the screen  
>  results.
>  >  
>  >   
>  You'd need to be more specific about
>  >  that.
>  >  
>  >  > I
>  >  > take  
>  offense at your arrogant tone in  
>  >   
>  reply to a beginners request for
>  >  
>  >  I wasn't trying to be offensive.
>  >  
>  >  > help.While  
>  those with  
>  >  experience may find my  
>  request naive, I went to
>  >  > the  
>  list for suggestions beyond the  
>  >   
>  handbook.Also, you confuse the two
>  > 
>  >  
>  >  parts of my question in your  
>  smackdown.
>  >  
>  >   
>  Firstly, it wasn't a smackdown. Secondly,
>  >  you asked two separate
>  >  questions. I only
>  >   
>  tried to answer one of them, which is why I quoted only
>  >  one.
>  >  
>  >  As has
>  >  been  
>  mentioned elsewhere, your problem was caused by missing
>  >  a
>  >  step. The point  
>  I was trying to make is
>  >  that it is  
>  important to follow
>  >  the handbook
>  >  carefully, so the advice was to read it  
>  fully before
>  >  attempting to follow it.  
>  Reading it and
>  >  following it at the  
>  same time is
>  >  asking for
>  >  trouble.
>  >  
>  >  Experience has
>  >   
>  shown that a large proportion of new user install
>  >  problems are caused by a failure to  
>  follow the
>  >  handbook correctly.
>  >  Sometimes this is caused
>  >  by someone thinking they know better and  
>  taking
>  >  a shortcut but more often it  
>  is simply a
>  >  moaater of a mistake  
>  or
>  >  misunderstanding
>  >  somewhere.
>  >  
>  >  
>  >  > Sorry  
>  >  for the annoyance and
>  >  > possibleviolation  
>  >  of list protocol, but I expected a bit  
>  more support. 
>  >  > 
>  >  >     On  
>  >  Saturday, September 24, 2016 9:47 AM,  
>  Neil Bothwick
>  >  >    
>  
>  >  wrote: 
>  >  >  
>  
>  >  >  On Sat,  
>  >  24 Sep 2016 12:13:00 + (UTC),  
>  Christopher Robinson
>  >  wrote:
>  >  >   
>  >  > > Also,  
>  >  I read that it is possible to install  
>  Gentoo from the
>  >  Live
>  >  > > DVD.How do I do  
>  that?
>  >  > 
>  >  > You need to read  
>  >  chapter 1 of the Gentoo handbook from  
>  start to finish,
>  >  > then read it  
>  again. When you understand  
>  >  what is  
>  going on, you then boot
>  >  > from   
>  
>  >  the live DVD and follow the  
>  installation instructions fro
>  >  the
>  >  > handbook.
>  > 
>  > 
>  >  >   
>  >  
>  >  
>  >  
>  >  
>  >  -- 
>  >  Neil  
>  Bothwick
>  >  
>  >  I  
>  distinctly remember forgetting
>  >  that.
>  >   
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  -- 
>  Neil Bothwick
>  
>  Never sleep with anyone crazier than
>  yourself.
> 




-- 
Neil Bothwick

The thrill of victory, the agony of delete.


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Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[J. Roeleveld]

On September 25, 2016 12:14:03 AM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson 
 wrote:
>I was not referring to screenshots as you well know but the unwarranted
>commnets at the end

Actually, the email you replied to only referenced the screenshots and the 
inherent risks with regards to pointing inexperienced people to them.

We can keep debating this for a very long time if you want. But that will not 
help the issue you are clearly facing and which led you to post a rather 
cryptic message to this list. And following up on replies with further cryptic 
and incomplete information.

Why don't you answer my other emails.

And to make it easier for everyone to follow, it is not difficult to bottom 
post using yahoo mail.
Simply write your answer below the part you are replying to.



>
>On Sat, 9/24/16, J. Roeleveld  wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 5:59 PM
> 
> On September 24, 2016
>11:53:05 PM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson
>
> wrote:
> >If I got paid for every person I
> had to enlighten about their snarky
> >comments, I could retire 
> >myself
> 
> You
> are either trying to be funny or have an obvious lack of
> understanding about humanity.
> 
> I was simply pointing out that screenshots are
> not the most useful tool i  describing a process that is
> subject to fast changes. Especially as most people tend to
> expect the screenshots to match reality.
> 
> If you think most people will understand that
> screenshots don't necessarily match what is displayed on
> screen and can easily adapt, you are either very young or
> have been living under a rock.
> 
> --
> Joost
> 
> 
> >
> >On Sat, 9/24/16, J. Roeleveld 
> wrote:
> >
> > Subject:
> Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
> > To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> > Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 5:49
> PM
> > 
> > On September
> 24, 2016
> >11:42:23 PM GMT+02:00,
> Christopher Robinson
> >
> > wrote:
> > >Joost you
> should not be
> > responding to people
> seeking help. Your
> > >attititude is
> offensive.
> > 
> > Please
> do enlighten us. What
> > part of the email
> you are responding to is offensive?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
> >
> > >On Sat, 9/24/16, J. Roeleveld 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Subject:
> > Re:
> [gentoo-user] New Install
> > > To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> > > Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016,
> 5:36
> > PM
> > > 
> > > On September
> > 24,
> 2016
> > > 11:29:59 PM GMT+02:00,
> Joachim
> > Gwoke 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> >On 25 Sep
> > 2016 12:19 a.m.,
> > > "Dale"
> >
> 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> >>
> > > >> J.
> > > Roeleveld
> >
> wrote:
> > > >> > On
> September
> > > 24, 2016 10:54:56 PM
> GMT+02:00, Dale
> > > >
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> >>
> > >>
> >
> > Well, you said you hadn't
> > set
> up any users and their
> > >
> passwords.
> > 
> > >
> >That
> > > >>
> > >> is
> > >
> >>
> > > >> part of the
> install process and
> > is in the
> guide. 
> > > You are told to
> > > >set
> > >
> >>
> > >> up
> > > >>
> > >
> >> the root password in one section
> > and to set up a
> > >
> user and its
> > > >password
> > > >>
> >
> >> in another section.  At the
> >
> >
> > very least, you missed those two
> parts
> > >
> >
> >and
> > > >> >> that
> > > isn't a assumption, it's
> based on
> > what you posted. 
> > > What else
> > >
> >you
> > > >>
> > > >> missed I'm not sure and
> most
> > likely, no one
> > > else is either. 
> > Rich
> > > >>
> >>
> > > posted
> > > >>
> >
> >> that he thinks you
> > > missed
> a
> > whole section which may or may not
> be
> > >
> > >>
> >> correct but we do know you
> >
> > missed at least a couple steps  Given
> > > >enough
> > >
> >>
> > >>
> >
> > information, someone may be
> > able
> to figure it out tho.
> > > >>
> > > Dale,
> > >
> >>
> > > >
> >
> > >> >
> > You should know
> better.
> > > Please
> > don't make it worse by top-posting
> > >
> > >even
> > > >more.
> >
> >
> > >> >
> >
> > >> >
> > > >From what I
> understand from this
> > nightmare of a
> messy
> > > thread, the
> > > >OP
> > >
> >seems
> > > to be looking for an
> > install-script/tool.
> >
> > >> > This
> > does not exist
> other than
> > > the simple to
> > follow handbook.
> > >
> >>
> > > >
> >
> > >> >
> > --
> > > >> > Joost
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> > > >> >
> > >
> > >>
> > > >> Well, as you
> > > know, I never top post unless it is a
> new
> > person that
> >
> > >> starts it.  The
> > only
> reason I do it
> > > then is because
> > most likely the
> > >
> >>
> > > person on the other end
> has no choice but
> > too.  It's
> > > likely why no
> >
> > >one
> > > >> has
> > mentioned this.  For all we know,
> > 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Christopher Robinson]

I was not referring to screenshots as you well know but the unwarranted 
commnets at the end

On Sat, 9/24/16, J. Roeleveld  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 5:59 PM
 
 On September 24, 2016
 11:53:05 PM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson 
 wrote:
 >If I got paid for every person I
 had to enlighten about their snarky
 >comments, I could retire 
 >myself
 
 You
 are either trying to be funny or have an obvious lack of
 understanding about humanity.
 
 I was simply pointing out that screenshots are
 not the most useful tool i  describing a process that is
 subject to fast changes. Especially as most people tend to
 expect the screenshots to match reality.
 
 If you think most people will understand that
 screenshots don't necessarily match what is displayed on
 screen and can easily adapt, you are either very young or
 have been living under a rock.
 
 --
 Joost
 
 
 >
 >On Sat, 9/24/16, J. Roeleveld 
 wrote:
 >
 > Subject:
 Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 > To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 > Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 5:49
 PM
 > 
 > On September
 24, 2016
 >11:42:23 PM GMT+02:00,
 Christopher Robinson
 >
 > wrote:
 > >Joost you
 should not be
 > responding to people
 seeking help. Your
 > >attititude is
 offensive.
 > 
 > Please
 do enlighten us. What
 > part of the email
 you are responding to is offensive?
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >
 >
 > >On Sat, 9/24/16, J. Roeleveld 
 > wrote:
 > >
 > > Subject:
 > Re:
 [gentoo-user] New Install
 > > To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 > > Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016,
 5:36
 > PM
 > > 
 > > On September
 > 24,
 2016
 > > 11:29:59 PM GMT+02:00,
 Joachim
 > Gwoke 
 > > wrote:
 > >
 >On 25 Sep
 > 2016 12:19 a.m.,
 > > "Dale"
 >
 
 > > wrote:
 > >
 >>
 > > >> J.
 > > Roeleveld
 >
 wrote:
 > > >> > On
 September
 > > 24, 2016 10:54:56 PM
 GMT+02:00, Dale
 > > >
 > > >wrote:
 > >
 >>
 > >>
 >
 > Well, you said you hadn't
 > set
 up any users and their
 > >
 passwords.
 > 
 > >
 >That
 > > >>
 > >> is
 > >
 >>
 > > >> part of the
 install process and
 > is in the
 guide. 
 > > You are told to
 > > >set
 > >
 >>
 > >> up
 > > >>
 > >
 >> the root password in one section
 > and to set up a
 > >
 user and its
 > > >password
 > > >>
 >
 >> in another section.  At the
 >
 >
 > very least, you missed those two
 parts
 > >
 >
 >and
 > > >> >> that
 > > isn't a assumption, it's
 based on
 > what you posted. 
 > > What else
 > >
 >you
 > > >>
 > > >> missed I'm not sure and
 most
 > likely, no one
 > > else is either. 
 > Rich
 > > >>
 >>
 > > posted
 > > >>
 >
 >> that he thinks you
 > > missed
 a
 > whole section which may or may not
 be
 > >
 > >>
 >> correct but we do know you
 >
 > missed at least a couple steps  Given
 > > >enough
 > >
 >>
 > >>
 >
 > information, someone may be
 > able
 to figure it out tho.
 > > >>
 > > Dale,
 > >
 >>
 > > >
 >
 > >> >
 > You should know
 better.
 > > Please
 > don't make it worse by top-posting
 > >
 > >even
 > > >more.
 >
 >
 > >> >
 >
 > >> >
 > > >From what I
 understand from this
 > nightmare of a
 messy
 > > thread, the
 > > >OP
 > >
 >seems
 > > to be looking for an
 > install-script/tool.
 >
 > >> > This
 > does not exist
 other than
 > > the simple to
 > follow handbook.
 > >
 >>
 > > >
 >
 > >> >
 > --
 > > >> > Joost
 > > >>
 > >
 >
 > > >> >
 > >
 > >>
 > > >> Well, as you
 > > know, I never top post unless it is a
 new
 > person that
 >
 > >> starts it.  The
 > only
 reason I do it
 > > then is because
 > most likely the
 > >
 >>
 > > person on the other end
 has no choice but
 > too.  It's
 > > likely why no
 >
 > >one
 > > >> has
 > mentioned this.  For all we know,
 > > he
 > may be doing
 this with a
 > > >>
 > limited
 > > cell
 phone.  Who knows.  For
 > the normal
 situations tho,
 > > I
 > > >bottom
 > >
 >>
 > post
 > >
 as you know or do it inline.  I
 > will
 be glad when he gets
 > > it
 > > >sorted
 > >
 >>
 > out
 > >
 and can actually set it up to be
 >
 mailing list friendly. 
 > > Top
 > > >> posting, multiple threads
 and
 > > all makes it hard to
 follow.
 > > >>
 > > >>
 > I'm
 beginning to think the same
 > >
 > thing.  Here we thought he was
 > >
 > >further
 > > >> into the
 > > install and just missed a few
 > steps/section and now
 >
 > I'm
 > > >> beginning to
 think he has
 > > only booted the
 install media and wants
 > a
 > > >> installer command. 
 Maybe
 > he will
 > >
 post something that will help
 > us
 > > >help
 > >
 > >> him.  Maybe.  I thought I had
 a
 > > rough idea but based on a
 recent
 > > >post,
 > > >> we
 > may
 be
 > > all wrong on where he is in
 this
 > process.
 > >
 >>
 > 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Dutch Ingraham]

On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 09:49:07PM +, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On September 24, 2016 11:42:23 PM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson 
>  wrote:
> >Joost you should not be responding to people seeking help. Your
> >attititude is offensive.
> 
> Please do enlighten us. What part of the email you are responding to is 
> offensive?


I'd just like to take a moment and commend the regular posters to this
list, from whom I have learned much over the last few years, for showing
what is, in my opinion, great restraint and civility towards the OP.  If
he had walked into *my house* and immediately began chastising the
locals and lecturing them on how they should act, well, I may not have
been able to be so charitable.  Well done, chaps!

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Tom H]

On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 4:35 PM, Christopher Robinson
 wrote:
>
> Again thanks for a specific reply, unlike Dale and Neil's.

Is this necessary?!

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[J. Roeleveld]

On September 24, 2016 11:53:05 PM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson 
 wrote:
>If I got paid for every person I had to enlighten about their snarky
>comments, I could retire 
>myself

You are either trying to be funny or have an obvious lack of understanding 
about humanity.

I was simply pointing out that screenshots are not the most useful tool i  
describing a process that is subject to fast changes. Especially as most people 
tend to expect the screenshots to match reality.

If you think most people will understand that screenshots don't necessarily 
match what is displayed on screen and can easily adapt, you are either very 
young or have been living under a rock.

--
Joost


>
>On Sat, 9/24/16, J. Roeleveld  wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 5:49 PM
> 
> On September 24, 2016
>11:42:23 PM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson
>
> wrote:
> >Joost you should not be
> responding to people seeking help. Your
> >attititude is offensive.
> 
> Please do enlighten us. What
> part of the email you are responding to is offensive?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >On Sat, 9/24/16, J. Roeleveld 
> wrote:
> >
> > Subject:
> Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
> > To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> > Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 5:36
> PM
> > 
> > On September
> 24, 2016
> > 11:29:59 PM GMT+02:00, Joachim
> Gwoke 
> > wrote:
> > >On 25 Sep
> 2016 12:19 a.m.,
> > "Dale"
> 
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> J.
> > Roeleveld
> wrote:
> > >> > On September
> > 24, 2016 10:54:56 PM GMT+02:00, Dale
> > >
> > >wrote:
> > >>
> >>
> > Well, you said you hadn't
> set up any users and their
> > passwords.
> 
> > >That
> > >>
> >> is
> > >>
> > >> part of the install process and
> is in the guide. 
> > You are told to
> > >set
> > >>
> >> up
> > >>
> > >> the root password in one section
> and to set up a
> > user and its
> > >password
> > >>
> >> in another section.  At the
> >
> very least, you missed those two parts
> >
> >and
> > >> >> that
> > isn't a assumption, it's based on
> what you posted. 
> > What else
> > >you
> > >>
> > >> missed I'm not sure and most
> likely, no one
> > else is either. 
> Rich
> > >> >>
> > posted
> > >>
> >> that he thinks you
> > missed a
> whole section which may or may not be
> >
> >> >> correct but we do know you
> > missed at least a couple steps  Given
> > >enough
> > >>
> >>
> > information, someone may be
> able to figure it out tho.
> > >>
> > Dale,
> > >>
> > >
> > >> >
> You should know better.
> > Please
> don't make it worse by top-posting
> >
> >even
> > >more.
> >
> >> >
> > >> >
> > >From what I understand from this
> nightmare of a messy
> > thread, the
> > >OP
> > >seems
> > to be looking for an
> install-script/tool.
> > >> > This
> does not exist other than
> > the simple to
> follow handbook.
> > >>
> > >
> > >> >
> --
> > >> > Joost
> > >>
> > >
> > >> >
> >
> >>
> > >> Well, as you
> > know, I never top post unless it is a new
> person that
> > >> starts it.  The
> only reason I do it
> > then is because
> most likely the
> > >>
> > person on the other end has no choice but
> too.  It's
> > likely why no
> > >one
> > >> has
> mentioned this.  For all we know,
> > he
> may be doing this with a
> > >>
> limited
> > cell phone.  Who knows.  For
> the normal situations tho,
> > I
> > >bottom
> > >>
> post
> > as you know or do it inline.  I
> will be glad when he gets
> > it
> > >sorted
> > >>
> out
> > and can actually set it up to be
> mailing list friendly. 
> > Top
> > >> posting, multiple threads and
> > all makes it hard to follow.
> > >>
> > >>
> I'm beginning to think the same
> >
> thing.  Here we thought he was
> >
> >further
> > >> into the
> > install and just missed a few
> steps/section and now
> > I'm
> > >> beginning to think he has
> > only booted the install media and wants
> a
> > >> installer command.  Maybe
> he will
> > post something that will help
> us
> > >help
> >
> >> him.  Maybe.  I thought I had a
> > rough idea but based on a recent
> > >post,
> > >> we
> may be
> > all wrong on where he is in this
> process.
> > >>
> >
> >> Dale
> > >>
> > >> :-)  :-)
> >
> >>
> > >
> >
> >Apologies for starting the top posting,
> > >
> > >I had
> earlier
> > suggested using
> > >http://www.tecmint.com/gentoo-linux-installation-guide/
> > and the Gentoo
> >
> >handbook side by
> > side.
> > >The link provided has the option
> > of using the LiveDVD. I do not know at
> > >what stage the install failed but it
> might
> > be easier to start over.
> > >
> > >Regards
> > >Joachim
> > 
> > I had a quick look at that
> > one. (Part 1 only) and it looks like the
> old quick install
> > guide, but now with
> screenshots.
> > 
> >
> Screenshots are nice, but 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Tom H]

On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Neil Bothwick  wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 16:16:00 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:
>
>>> Call it Part 1 or Volume 1 if you prefer, the handbook itself doesn't
>>> give such a label to the four sections. I meant the part called
>>> "1. Installing Gentoo".
>>
>> Great, where in that part does it tell you how to set a root password?
>
> I couldn't tell you without looking, but I wasn't answering that
> question. I quoted only the part I was answering.

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/System#Root_password

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Dale]

Joachim Gwoke wrote:
>
> On 25 Sep 2016 12:19 a.m., "Dale"  > wrote:
> >
> > J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > > On September 24, 2016 10:54:56 PM GMT+02:00, Dale
> > wrote:
> > >> Well, you said you hadn't set up any users and their passwords.  That
> > >> is
> > >> part of the install process and is in the guide.  You are told to set
> > >> up
> > >> the root password in one section and to set up a user and its
> password
> > >> in another section.  At the very least, you missed those two
> parts and
> > >> that isn't a assumption, it's based on what you posted.  What
> else you
> > >> missed I'm not sure and most likely, no one else is either.  Rich
> > >> posted
> > >> that he thinks you missed a whole section which may or may not be
> > >> correct but we do know you missed at least a couple steps  Given
> enough
> > >> information, someone may be able to figure it out tho.
> > > Dale,
> > >
> > > You should know better. Please don't make it worse by top-posting
> even more.
> > >
> > > >From what I understand from this nightmare of a messy thread, the
> OP seems to be looking for an install-script/tool.
> > > This does not exist other than the simple to follow handbook.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Joost
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Well, as you know, I never top post unless it is a new person that
> > starts it.  The only reason I do it then is because most likely the
> > person on the other end has no choice but too.  It's likely why no one
> > has mentioned this.  For all we know, he may be doing this with a
> > limited cell phone.  Who knows.  For the normal situations tho, I bottom
> > post as you know or do it inline.  I will be glad when he gets it sorted
> > out and can actually set it up to be mailing list friendly.  Top
> > posting, multiple threads and all makes it hard to follow.
> >
> > I'm beginning to think the same thing.  Here we thought he was further
> > into the install and just missed a few steps/section and now I'm
> > beginning to think he has only booted the install media and wants a
> > installer command.  Maybe he will post something that will help us help
> > him.  Maybe.  I thought I had a rough idea but based on a recent post,
> > we may be all wrong on where he is in this process.
> >
> > Dale
> >
> > :-)  :-)
> >
>
> Apologies for starting the top posting,
>
> I had earlier suggested using
> http://www.tecmint.com/gentoo-linux-installation-guide/ and the Gentoo
> handbook side by side.
> The link provided has the option of using the LiveDVD. I do not know
> at what stage the install failed but it might be easier to start over.
>
> Regards
> Joachim
>

I thought it was the OP that top posted first.  Sometimes new folks fall
into a couple areas.  1: Don't know top posting is discouraged.  2: Are
using something that doesn't allow or is difficult to change from top
posting.  I think stuff like cell phones and such fall into that 2nd
one.  Either way, getting Gentoo installed is the more important thing
if the OP is limited on what he can email with.  Once he gets Gentoo
installed, then he can have better options with help setting it up if
needed.

There are tons of media one can use to install Gentoo.  As I think it
was Joost posted, it mostly just needs to be recent.  I took a look at
your link, it may work, it may not.  I always use the official Gentoo
guide because it is very well tested and known to work.  Heck, on a lot
of things, you can copy and paste the commands.  One could certainly use
tab completion a lot. 

At this point, I'm thinking he only made to booting the live media and
for some reason, thinks Gentoo has a installer like other distros.  I'm
not quite sure but it seems Neil's first reply may have been closer to
the point.  Start at chapter 1 and follow it.  lol 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Christopher Robinson]

If I got paid for every person I had to enlighten about their snarky comments, 
I could retire 
myself

On Sat, 9/24/16, J. Roeleveld  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 5:49 PM
 
 On September 24, 2016
 11:42:23 PM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson 
 wrote:
 >Joost you should not be
 responding to people seeking help. Your
 >attititude is offensive.
 
 Please do enlighten us. What
 part of the email you are responding to is offensive?
 
 
 
 
 
 >
 >On Sat, 9/24/16, J. Roeleveld 
 wrote:
 >
 > Subject:
 Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 > To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 > Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 5:36
 PM
 > 
 > On September
 24, 2016
 > 11:29:59 PM GMT+02:00, Joachim
 Gwoke 
 > wrote:
 > >On 25 Sep
 2016 12:19 a.m.,
 > "Dale"
 
 > wrote:
 > >>
 > >> J.
 > Roeleveld
 wrote:
 > >> > On September
 > 24, 2016 10:54:56 PM GMT+02:00, Dale
 > >
 > >wrote:
 > >>
 >>
 > Well, you said you hadn't
 set up any users and their
 > passwords.
 
 > >That
 > >>
 >> is
 > >>
 > >> part of the install process and
 is in the guide. 
 > You are told to
 > >set
 > >>
 >> up
 > >>
 > >> the root password in one section
 and to set up a
 > user and its
 > >password
 > >>
 >> in another section.  At the
 >
 very least, you missed those two parts
 >
 >and
 > >> >> that
 > isn't a assumption, it's based on
 what you posted. 
 > What else
 > >you
 > >>
 > >> missed I'm not sure and most
 likely, no one
 > else is either. 
 Rich
 > >> >>
 > posted
 > >>
 >> that he thinks you
 > missed a
 whole section which may or may not be
 >
 >> >> correct but we do know you
 > missed at least a couple steps  Given
 > >enough
 > >>
 >>
 > information, someone may be
 able to figure it out tho.
 > >>
 > Dale,
 > >>
 > >
 > >> >
 You should know better.
 > Please
 don't make it worse by top-posting
 >
 >even
 > >more.
 >
 >> >
 > >> >
 > >From what I understand from this
 nightmare of a messy
 > thread, the
 > >OP
 > >seems
 > to be looking for an
 install-script/tool.
 > >> > This
 does not exist other than
 > the simple to
 follow handbook.
 > >>
 > >
 > >> >
 --
 > >> > Joost
 > >>
 > >
 > >> >
 >
 >>
 > >> Well, as you
 > know, I never top post unless it is a new
 person that
 > >> starts it.  The
 only reason I do it
 > then is because
 most likely the
 > >>
 > person on the other end has no choice but
 too.  It's
 > likely why no
 > >one
 > >> has
 mentioned this.  For all we know,
 > he
 may be doing this with a
 > >>
 limited
 > cell phone.  Who knows.  For
 the normal situations tho,
 > I
 > >bottom
 > >>
 post
 > as you know or do it inline.  I
 will be glad when he gets
 > it
 > >sorted
 > >>
 out
 > and can actually set it up to be
 mailing list friendly. 
 > Top
 > >> posting, multiple threads and
 > all makes it hard to follow.
 > >>
 > >>
 I'm beginning to think the same
 >
 thing.  Here we thought he was
 >
 >further
 > >> into the
 > install and just missed a few
 steps/section and now
 > I'm
 > >> beginning to think he has
 > only booted the install media and wants
 a
 > >> installer command.  Maybe
 he will
 > post something that will help
 us
 > >help
 >
 >> him.  Maybe.  I thought I had a
 > rough idea but based on a recent
 > >post,
 > >> we
 may be
 > all wrong on where he is in this
 process.
 > >>
 >
 >> Dale
 > >>
 > >> :-)  :-)
 >
 >>
 > >
 >
 >Apologies for starting the top posting,
 > >
 > >I had
 earlier
 > suggested using
 > >http://www.tecmint.com/gentoo-linux-installation-guide/
 > and the Gentoo
 >
 >handbook side by
 > side.
 > >The link provided has the option
 > of using the LiveDVD. I do not know at
 > >what stage the install failed but it
 might
 > be easier to start over.
 > >
 > >Regards
 > >Joachim
 > 
 > I had a quick look at that
 > one. (Part 1 only) and it looks like the
 old quick install
 > guide, but now with
 screenshots.
 > 
 >
 Screenshots are nice, but are always version
 > dependent.
 > 
 > If I would get a
 >
 penny or cent or whatever is the smallest part of your
 local
 > currency for every time someone
 is completely incapable of
 > following an
 install guide when only one of the screenshots
 > no longer 100% match the guide, I would
 have already retired
 > to my own little
 island in the Pacific...
 > 
 > The screenshots on that link
 > seem to be related to a boot CD/DVD dated
 to 2012 and being
 > used to install
 Gentoo in 2014.
 > 
 > I
 expect more confused questions from people
 > who are not able to follow simple
 instructions if they are
 > going to
 blindly follow this.
 > 
 > --
 > Joost
 > 
 > --
 > 
 > Sent from my Android
 device with K-9 Mail.
 > Please excuse my
 brevity.
 > 
 > 
 
 
 -- 
 Sent from
 my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my
 brevity.
 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[J. Roeleveld]

On September 24, 2016 11:42:23 PM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson 
 wrote:
>Joost you should not be responding to people seeking help. Your
>attititude is offensive.

Please do enlighten us. What part of the email you are responding to is 
offensive?





>
>On Sat, 9/24/16, J. Roeleveld  wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 5:36 PM
> 
> On September 24, 2016
> 11:29:59 PM GMT+02:00, Joachim Gwoke 
> wrote:
> >On 25 Sep 2016 12:19 a.m.,
> "Dale" 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> J.
> Roeleveld wrote:
> >> > On September
> 24, 2016 10:54:56 PM GMT+02:00, Dale
> >
> >wrote:
> >> >>
> Well, you said you hadn't set up any users and their
> passwords. 
> >That
> >> >> is
> >>
> >> part of the install process and is in the guide. 
> You are told to
> >set
> >> >> up
> >>
> >> the root password in one section and to set up a
> user and its
> >password
> >> >> in another section.  At the
> very least, you missed those two parts
> >and
> >> >> that
> isn't a assumption, it's based on what you posted. 
> What else
> >you
> >>
> >> missed I'm not sure and most likely, no one
> else is either.  Rich
> >> >>
> posted
> >> >> that he thinks you
> missed a whole section which may or may not be
> >> >> correct but we do know you
> missed at least a couple steps  Given
> >enough
> >> >>
> information, someone may be able to figure it out tho.
> >> > Dale,
> >>
> >
> >> > You should know better.
> Please don't make it worse by top-posting
> >even
> >more.
> >> >
> >> >
> >From what I understand from this nightmare of a messy
> thread, the
> >OP
> >seems
> to be looking for an install-script/tool.
> >> > This does not exist other than
> the simple to follow handbook.
> >>
> >
> >> > --
> >> > Joost
> >>
> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> Well, as you
> know, I never top post unless it is a new person that
> >> starts it.  The only reason I do it
> then is because most likely the
> >>
> person on the other end has no choice but too.  It's
> likely why no
> >one
> >> has mentioned this.  For all we know,
> he may be doing this with a
> >> limited
> cell phone.  Who knows.  For the normal situations tho,
> I
> >bottom
> >> post
> as you know or do it inline.  I will be glad when he gets
> it
> >sorted
> >> out
> and can actually set it up to be mailing list friendly. 
> Top
> >> posting, multiple threads and
> all makes it hard to follow.
> >>
> >> I'm beginning to think the same
> thing.  Here we thought he was
> >further
> >> into the
> install and just missed a few steps/section and now
> I'm
> >> beginning to think he has
> only booted the install media and wants a
> >> installer command.  Maybe he will
> post something that will help us
> >help
> >> him.  Maybe.  I thought I had a
> rough idea but based on a recent
> >post,
> >> we may be
> all wrong on where he is in this process.
> >>
> >> Dale
> >>
> >> :-)  :-)
> >>
> >
> >Apologies for starting the top posting,
> >
> >I had earlier
> suggested using
> >http://www.tecmint.com/gentoo-linux-installation-guide/
> and the Gentoo
> >handbook side by
> side.
> >The link provided has the option
> of using the LiveDVD. I do not know at
> >what stage the install failed but it might
> be easier to start over.
> >
> >Regards
> >Joachim
> 
> I had a quick look at that
> one. (Part 1 only) and it looks like the old quick install
> guide, but now with screenshots.
> 
> Screenshots are nice, but are always version
> dependent.
> 
> If I would get a
> penny or cent or whatever is the smallest part of your local
> currency for every time someone is completely incapable of
> following an install guide when only one of the screenshots
> no longer 100% match the guide, I would have already retired
> to my own little island in the Pacific...
> 
> The screenshots on that link
> seem to be related to a boot CD/DVD dated to 2012 and being
> used to install Gentoo in 2014.
> 
> I expect more confused questions from people
> who are not able to follow simple instructions if they are
> going to blindly follow this.
> 
> --
> Joost
> 
> --
> 
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail.
> Please excuse my brevity.
> 
> 


-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[J. Roeleveld]

On September 24, 2016 11:06:06 PM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson 
 wrote:
>Actually, I was able to set a password although I may not have stated
>this clearly enough for you to get it.I saw the directions about make
>user, but was unsure if this was for root since the manual mentioned a
>wheeluser.  

The first mention of 'wheel' in the handbook is where it is talking about 
creating extra users and specifically mentions wheel, users and audio are 
groups.

And it then shows you use 'useradd' for this.

--
Joost


>On Saturday, September 24, 2016 4:55 PM, Dale 
>wrote:
> 
>
>Well, you said you hadn't set up any users and their passwords.  That
>is
>part of the install process and is in the guide.  You are told to set
>up
>the root password in one section and to set up a user and its password
>in another section.  At the very least, you missed those two parts and
>that isn't a assumption, it's based on what you posted.  What else you
>missed I'm not sure and most likely, no one else is either.  Rich
>posted
>that he thinks you missed a whole section which may or may not be
>correct but we do know you missed at least a couple steps  Given enough
>information, someone may be able to figure it out tho. 
>
>Dale
>
>:-)  :-) 
>
>
>
>Christopher Robinson wrote:
>> Dale,
>>
>> Your assumption that I missed a section is entirely offbase and does
>not respond to
>> my original question. I could say that you are missing the point of
>what I asked.
>> For those who have had helpful suggestions I give thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> On Sat, 9/24/16, Dale  wrote:
>>
>>  Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
>>  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
>>  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:17 PM
>>  
>>  Again, top posting to
>>  follow his lead. 
>>  
>>  It's
>>  not a fight.  It's just called being prepared. 
>>  Missing a section
>>  isn't going to give
>>  you a proper install.  It's one reason I always
>>  recommend a person read the docs several
>>  times.  The reason for that, if
>>  something
>>  doesn't seem right, you will more than likely notice it
>>  and go
>>  back and figure out what was
>>  missed.  The fact that I don't see a
>>  all-in-one page guide isn't helping you
>>  any.  If it was on one page,
>>  even as a
>>  option for those who don't like it, then you likely
>>  wouldn't
>>  have missed a section.  Just
>>  start at the top and work your way down. 
>>  Maybe after this, someone will see the need for
>>  at least some of us to
>>  have it all in one
>>  long page.  Maybe Rich can whisper in someone's
>>  ear.  I guess printing it and
>>  putting it in order would work but that
>>  means a lot of typing when a lot of times, a
>>  copy and paste will be
>>  easier. 
>>  
>>  Thing is, it's hard to
>>  tell what was wrong because no one knew you
>>  missed a section, I suspect Neil did sort of
>>  figure that to be the case
>>  tho which is why
>>  he replied with what he did.  What we do know, if you
>>  follow the guide, you should get a bootable
>>  system.  It may not be 100%
>>  perfect but it
>>  should boot at least.  Gentoo has some excellent docs,
>>  especially the install part.  Unless you have
>>  some pretty odd hardware,
>>  it should work.
>>  
>>  
>>  One thing I learned the
>>  hard way.  Pretty much no matter what you may
>>  mess up, you can chroot in and go back and fix
>>  it. Just boot using
>>  whatever media you
>>  selected, follow the mount and chroot section and
>>  then correct whatever is wrong.  You do NOT
>>  have to start from scratch
>>  most of the
>>  time.  You'd have to have made a boo boo in the very
>>  early
>>  stages to end up doing that. 
>>  
>>  I'm just hoping you can
>>  fix this easily and finish your install.  :-)
>>  
>>  Dale
>>  
>>  :-)  :-) 
>>  
>>  
>>  Christopher Robinson wrote:
>>  > I don't really want to get into a
>>  fight, but some of the replies-not Rich's- are
>>  missing
>>  > the point I am raising. To then
>>  disparage me is unworthy for a support list.
>>  >
>>  
>>  > On Sat, 9/24/16, Dale 
>>  wrote:
>>  >
>>  >  Subject:
>>  Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
>>  >  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
>>  >  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 3:44
>>  PM
>>  >  
>>  >  Rich
>>  Freeman wrote:
>>  >  > On Sat, Sep 24,
>>  2016 at 11:35 AM, Dale
>>  >  
>>  >  wrote:
>>  >  >>
>>  Actually, he is correct.
>>  >  >
>>  Actually, he isn't, which is hard to
>>  >  demonstrate since everybody is
>>  top-posting.
>>  >  
>>  > 
>>  Actually he is and your reply
>>  > 
>>  supports that point.  Also, I top posted
>>  >  because he did and I posted that
>>  reasoning. 
>>  >  I'm sure he will get
>>  around
>>  >  to bottom
>>  >  posting when he gets his install done. 
>>  Who knows what he
>>  >  is
>>  >  using at the moment. 
>>  >  >
>>  > 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Christopher Robinson]

Joost you should not be responding to people seeking help. Your attititude is 
offensive.
Joachim and Rich have made positive suggestions. Sorry about top posting, but 
today is
my first day on the list.

On Sat, 9/24/16, J. Roeleveld  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 5:36 PM
 
 On September 24, 2016
 11:29:59 PM GMT+02:00, Joachim Gwoke 
 wrote:
 >On 25 Sep 2016 12:19 a.m.,
 "Dale" 
 wrote:
 >>
 >> J.
 Roeleveld wrote:
 >> > On September
 24, 2016 10:54:56 PM GMT+02:00, Dale
 >
 >wrote:
 >> >>
 Well, you said you hadn't set up any users and their
 passwords. 
 >That
 >> >> is
 >>
 >> part of the install process and is in the guide. 
 You are told to
 >set
 >> >> up
 >>
 >> the root password in one section and to set up a
 user and its
 >password
 >> >> in another section.  At the
 very least, you missed those two parts
 >and
 >> >> that
 isn't a assumption, it's based on what you posted. 
 What else
 >you
 >>
 >> missed I'm not sure and most likely, no one
 else is either.  Rich
 >> >>
 posted
 >> >> that he thinks you
 missed a whole section which may or may not be
 >> >> correct but we do know you
 missed at least a couple steps  Given
 >enough
 >> >>
 information, someone may be able to figure it out tho.
 >> > Dale,
 >>
 >
 >> > You should know better.
 Please don't make it worse by top-posting
 >even
 >more.
 >> >
 >> >
 >From what I understand from this nightmare of a messy
 thread, the
 >OP
 >seems
 to be looking for an install-script/tool.
 >> > This does not exist other than
 the simple to follow handbook.
 >>
 >
 >> > --
 >> > Joost
 >>
 >
 >> >
 >>
 >> Well, as you
 know, I never top post unless it is a new person that
 >> starts it.  The only reason I do it
 then is because most likely the
 >>
 person on the other end has no choice but too.  It's
 likely why no
 >one
 >> has mentioned this.  For all we know,
 he may be doing this with a
 >> limited
 cell phone.  Who knows.  For the normal situations tho,
 I
 >bottom
 >> post
 as you know or do it inline.  I will be glad when he gets
 it
 >sorted
 >> out
 and can actually set it up to be mailing list friendly. 
 Top
 >> posting, multiple threads and
 all makes it hard to follow.
 >>
 >> I'm beginning to think the same
 thing.  Here we thought he was
 >further
 >> into the
 install and just missed a few steps/section and now
 I'm
 >> beginning to think he has
 only booted the install media and wants a
 >> installer command.  Maybe he will
 post something that will help us
 >help
 >> him.  Maybe.  I thought I had a
 rough idea but based on a recent
 >post,
 >> we may be
 all wrong on where he is in this process.
 >>
 >> Dale
 >>
 >> :-)  :-)
 >>
 >
 >Apologies for starting the top posting,
 >
 >I had earlier
 suggested using
 >http://www.tecmint.com/gentoo-linux-installation-guide/
 and the Gentoo
 >handbook side by
 side.
 >The link provided has the option
 of using the LiveDVD. I do not know at
 >what stage the install failed but it might
 be easier to start over.
 >
 >Regards
 >Joachim
 
 I had a quick look at that
 one. (Part 1 only) and it looks like the old quick install
 guide, but now with screenshots.
 
 Screenshots are nice, but are always version
 dependent.
 
 If I would get a
 penny or cent or whatever is the smallest part of your local
 currency for every time someone is completely incapable of
 following an install guide when only one of the screenshots
 no longer 100% match the guide, I would have already retired
 to my own little island in the Pacific...
 
 The screenshots on that link
 seem to be related to a boot CD/DVD dated to 2012 and being
 used to install Gentoo in 2014.
 
 I expect more confused questions from people
 who are not able to follow simple instructions if they are
 going to blindly follow this.
 
 --
 Joost
 
 --
 
 Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail.
 Please excuse my brevity.
 
 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[J. Roeleveld]

On September 24, 2016 11:29:59 PM GMT+02:00, Joachim Gwoke 
 wrote:
>On 25 Sep 2016 12:19 a.m., "Dale"  wrote:
>>
>> J. Roeleveld wrote:
>> > On September 24, 2016 10:54:56 PM GMT+02:00, Dale
>
>wrote:
>> >> Well, you said you hadn't set up any users and their passwords. 
>That
>> >> is
>> >> part of the install process and is in the guide.  You are told to
>set
>> >> up
>> >> the root password in one section and to set up a user and its
>password
>> >> in another section.  At the very least, you missed those two parts
>and
>> >> that isn't a assumption, it's based on what you posted.  What else
>you
>> >> missed I'm not sure and most likely, no one else is either.  Rich
>> >> posted
>> >> that he thinks you missed a whole section which may or may not be
>> >> correct but we do know you missed at least a couple steps  Given
>enough
>> >> information, someone may be able to figure it out tho.
>> > Dale,
>> >
>> > You should know better. Please don't make it worse by top-posting
>even
>more.
>> >
>> > >From what I understand from this nightmare of a messy thread, the
>OP
>seems to be looking for an install-script/tool.
>> > This does not exist other than the simple to follow handbook.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Joost
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Well, as you know, I never top post unless it is a new person that
>> starts it.  The only reason I do it then is because most likely the
>> person on the other end has no choice but too.  It's likely why no
>one
>> has mentioned this.  For all we know, he may be doing this with a
>> limited cell phone.  Who knows.  For the normal situations tho, I
>bottom
>> post as you know or do it inline.  I will be glad when he gets it
>sorted
>> out and can actually set it up to be mailing list friendly.  Top
>> posting, multiple threads and all makes it hard to follow.
>>
>> I'm beginning to think the same thing.  Here we thought he was
>further
>> into the install and just missed a few steps/section and now I'm
>> beginning to think he has only booted the install media and wants a
>> installer command.  Maybe he will post something that will help us
>help
>> him.  Maybe.  I thought I had a rough idea but based on a recent
>post,
>> we may be all wrong on where he is in this process.
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-)
>>
>
>Apologies for starting the top posting,
>
>I had earlier suggested using
>http://www.tecmint.com/gentoo-linux-installation-guide/ and the Gentoo
>handbook side by side.
>The link provided has the option of using the LiveDVD. I do not know at
>what stage the install failed but it might be easier to start over.
>
>Regards
>Joachim

I had a quick look at that one. (Part 1 only) and it looks like the old quick 
install guide, but now with screenshots.

Screenshots are nice, but are always version dependent.

If I would get a penny or cent or whatever is the smallest part of your local 
currency for every time someone is completely incapable of following an install 
guide when only one of the screenshots no longer 100% match the guide, I would 
have already retired to my own little island in the Pacific...

The screenshots on that link seem to be related to a boot CD/DVD dated to 2012 
and being used to install Gentoo in 2014.

I expect more confused questions from people who are not able to follow simple 
instructions if they are going to blindly follow this.

--
Joost

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Dale]

Well, I can only read what you posted.  You said you didn't so I took
your word for it. 

My question is this.  Have you already installed Gentoo and typed in a
whole bunch of commands or have you just booted the media, whatever you
use, and are at the prompt?  Based on a recent post, it sounds like you
are at the very, very beginning of the install.  If that is the case,
you haven't missed anything because you really haven't started yet.  Do
you recall typing in these commands:

|tar xvjpf stage3-*.tar.bz2 --xattrs 
||mount -t proc proc /mnt/gentoo/proc |
|mount --rbind /sys /mnt/gentoo/sys
|||chroot /mnt/gentoo /bin/bash
|||nano -w /etc/fstab
||emerge --ask sys-process/cronie
||grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg 

That's not all of them by any means, it's just some that are in the
guide.  If you haven't done any of those yet, then you are at one spot. 
If you have, you may be further along than a couple of us think you
are.  Installing Gentoo is a long process.  Even on a fairly fast rig,
it can take a day or so, hours for sure.  It mostly depends on what
desktop you install and such. 

By the way, wheel is a group, not a user.  The wheel group allows a user
to switch to root with su.  If a user is not in that group, they can't
switch to root. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 
|


Christopher Robinson wrote:
> Actually, I was able to set a password although I may not have stated
> this clearly enough for you to get it.
> I saw the directions about make user, but was unsure if this was for
> root since the manual mentioned a wheel
> user. 
>
>
> On Saturday, September 24, 2016 4:55 PM, Dale 
> wrote:
>
>
> Well, you said you hadn't set up any users and their passwords.  That is
> part of the install process and is in the guide.  You are told to set up
> the root password in one section and to set up a user and its password
> in another section.  At the very least, you missed those two parts and
> that isn't a assumption, it's based on what you posted.  What else you
> missed I'm not sure and most likely, no one else is either.  Rich posted
> that he thinks you missed a whole section which may or may not be
> correct but we do know you missed at least a couple steps  Given enough
> information, someone may be able to figure it out tho.
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-)
>
>
>
> Christopher Robinson wrote:
> > Dale,
> >
> > Your assumption that I missed a section is entirely offbase and does
> not respond to
> > my original question. I could say that you are missing the point of
> what I asked.
> > For those who have had helpful suggestions I give thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> > On Sat, 9/24/16, Dale  > wrote:
> >
> >  Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
> >  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org 
> >  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:17 PM
> > 
> >  Again, top posting to
> >  follow his lead.
> > 
> >  It's
> >  not a fight.  It's just called being prepared.
> >  Missing a section
> >  isn't going to give
> >  you a proper install.  It's one reason I always
> >  recommend a person read the docs several
> >  times.  The reason for that, if
> >  something
> >  doesn't seem right, you will more than likely notice it
> >  and go
> >  back and figure out what was
> >  missed.  The fact that I don't see a
> >  all-in-one page guide isn't helping you
> >  any.  If it was on one page,
> >  even as a
> >  option for those who don't like it, then you likely
> >  wouldn't
> >  have missed a section.  Just
> >  start at the top and work your way down.
> >  Maybe after this, someone will see the need for
> >  at least some of us to
> >  have it all in one
> >  long page.  Maybe Rich can whisper in someone's
> >  ear.  I guess printing it and
> >  putting it in order would work but that
> >  means a lot of typing when a lot of times, a
> >  copy and paste will be
> >  easier.
> > 
> >  Thing is, it's hard to
> >  tell what was wrong because no one knew you
> >  missed a section, I suspect Neil did sort of
> >  figure that to be the case
> >  tho which is why
> >  he replied with what he did.  What we do know, if you
> >  follow the guide, you should get a bootable
> >  system.  It may not be 100%
> >  perfect but it
> >  should boot at least.  Gentoo has some excellent docs,
> >  especially the install part.  Unless you have
> >  some pretty odd hardware,
> >  it should work.
> > 
> > 
> >  One thing I learned the
> >  hard way.  Pretty much no matter what you may
> >  mess up, you can chroot in and go back and fix
> >  it. Just boot using
> >  whatever media you
> >  selected, follow the mount and chroot section and
> >  then correct whatever is wrong.  You do NOT
> >  have to start from scratch
> >  most of the
> >  time.  You'd have to have made a boo boo in the very
> >  early
> >  stages to end up doing that.
> > 
> >  I'm just hoping you can
> >  fix this easily and finish your install.  

[gentoo-user] New Install

[Joachim Gwoke]

On 25 Sep 2016 12:19 a.m., "Dale"  wrote:
>
> J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > On September 24, 2016 10:54:56 PM GMT+02:00, Dale 
wrote:
> >> Well, you said you hadn't set up any users and their passwords.  That
> >> is
> >> part of the install process and is in the guide.  You are told to set
> >> up
> >> the root password in one section and to set up a user and its password
> >> in another section.  At the very least, you missed those two parts and
> >> that isn't a assumption, it's based on what you posted.  What else you
> >> missed I'm not sure and most likely, no one else is either.  Rich
> >> posted
> >> that he thinks you missed a whole section which may or may not be
> >> correct but we do know you missed at least a couple steps  Given enough
> >> information, someone may be able to figure it out tho.
> > Dale,
> >
> > You should know better. Please don't make it worse by top-posting even
more.
> >
> > >From what I understand from this nightmare of a messy thread, the OP
seems to be looking for an install-script/tool.
> > This does not exist other than the simple to follow handbook.
> >
> > --
> > Joost
> >
> >
>
> Well, as you know, I never top post unless it is a new person that
> starts it.  The only reason I do it then is because most likely the
> person on the other end has no choice but too.  It's likely why no one
> has mentioned this.  For all we know, he may be doing this with a
> limited cell phone.  Who knows.  For the normal situations tho, I bottom
> post as you know or do it inline.  I will be glad when he gets it sorted
> out and can actually set it up to be mailing list friendly.  Top
> posting, multiple threads and all makes it hard to follow.
>
> I'm beginning to think the same thing.  Here we thought he was further
> into the install and just missed a few steps/section and now I'm
> beginning to think he has only booted the install media and wants a
> installer command.  Maybe he will post something that will help us help
> him.  Maybe.  I thought I had a rough idea but based on a recent post,
> we may be all wrong on where he is in this process.
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-)
>

Apologies for starting the top posting,

I had earlier suggested using
http://www.tecmint.com/gentoo-linux-installation-guide/ and the Gentoo
handbook side by side.
The link provided has the option of using the LiveDVD. I do not know at
what stage the install failed but it might be easier to start over.

Regards
Joachim

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Dale]

J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On September 24, 2016 10:54:56 PM GMT+02:00, Dale  
> wrote:
>> Well, you said you hadn't set up any users and their passwords.  That
>> is
>> part of the install process and is in the guide.  You are told to set
>> up
>> the root password in one section and to set up a user and its password
>> in another section.  At the very least, you missed those two parts and
>> that isn't a assumption, it's based on what you posted.  What else you
>> missed I'm not sure and most likely, no one else is either.  Rich
>> posted
>> that he thinks you missed a whole section which may or may not be
>> correct but we do know you missed at least a couple steps  Given enough
>> information, someone may be able to figure it out tho. 
> Dale,
>
> You should know better. Please don't make it worse by top-posting even more.
>
> >From what I understand from this nightmare of a messy thread, the OP seems 
> >to be looking for an install-script/tool.
> This does not exist other than the simple to follow handbook.
>
> --
> Joost
>
>

Well, as you know, I never top post unless it is a new person that
starts it.  The only reason I do it then is because most likely the
person on the other end has no choice but too.  It's likely why no one
has mentioned this.  For all we know, he may be doing this with a
limited cell phone.  Who knows.  For the normal situations tho, I bottom
post as you know or do it inline.  I will be glad when he gets it sorted
out and can actually set it up to be mailing list friendly.  Top
posting, multiple threads and all makes it hard to follow. 

I'm beginning to think the same thing.  Here we thought he was further
into the install and just missed a few steps/section and now I'm
beginning to think he has only booted the install media and wants a
installer command.  Maybe he will post something that will help us help
him.  Maybe.  I thought I had a rough idea but based on a recent post,
we may be all wrong on where he is in this process. 

Dale 

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[J. Roeleveld]

On September 24, 2016 10:35:58 PM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson 
 wrote:
>Rich,
>
>Again thanks for a specific reply, unlike Dale and Neil's.

No need to become personal here.

>I was detailing the end result after compiling the minimal install CD.

Please explain, how are you compiling a CD?

>I will check the manual to see if it addresses this. I was hoping to
>get
>a quick answer from the list and not to cause a ruckus.

The quick answer was already goven by Neil. In order to install Gentoo, follow 
the handbook.

--
Joost


>
>On Sat, 9/24/16, Rich Freeman  wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:00 PM
> 
> On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at
> 3:22 PM, Christopher Robinson
> 
> wrote:
> > Thanks again for your response.
> After compiling I get the prompt: live cd # ~
> > I do not know what command to use to boot
> the install. I looked through the manual
> > but I did not see an answer for this. The
> directions seemed to apply to a very
> >
> different install scenario.
> 
>https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Bootloader#Rebooting_the_system
> 
> That is the last step after
> configuring the bootloader (if you don't
> configure the bootloader first you won't be
> able to boot the system).
> Are you sure you
> completed all the steps in the handbook?  I'm not
> sure what you were compiling as there are a few
> places where this can
> happen.
> 
> -- 
> Rich
> 
> 


-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Dale]

The reason he posted XXX is because it doesn't matter what media you
use.  You can use the minimal one, the Live one, a DVD or USB with
sysrescue on it, another Linux install, Knoppix or whatever Linuxy thing
to install Gentoo from.  My first install was done from Mandrake.  My
last one from sysrescue.  It's the same steps for them both.  What
install media you use doesn't matter. 


>From another email:

Christopher Robinson wrote:
> Rich responded to my question. I don't feel much like repeating.
> I need the command to run the install after getting live cd # ~

When you get to that prompt, then you start the install process.  It's
not one command, it is a serious of them that you have to enter in. 
Unless someone created a installer and I missed it, you have to install
Gentoo manually.  There is no installer. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 


Christopher Robinson wrote:
> Funny how you used XXX when I SPECIFCALLY mentioned mentioned the LIVE DVD
> as opposed to the minimal install cd. That was the whole point which you 
> missed in
> jumping to conclusions about my ignorance. 
> 
> On Sat, 9/24/16, Neil Bothwick  wrote:
>
>  Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
>  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
>  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:38 PM
>  
>  On Sat, 24 Sep 2016
>  20:31:13 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:
>  
>  > You are giving a generic
>  answer to what you see as a generic question.
>  > I really can't  play 20 questions by
>  repeating over until the light
>  > comes
>  on.
>  
>  I'm sorry, but
>  "Can I install from disc XXX?" is a generic
>  question.
>  
>  The more specific
>  and detailed the question, the more specific and
>  detailed the answers. But the response was
>  given freely and it's entirely
>  up to you
>  what you do with it.
>  
>  
>  
>  > On Sat, 9/24/16, Neil Bothwick 
>  wrote:
>  > 
>  >  Subject:
>  Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
>  >  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
>  >  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:21
>  PM
>  >  
>  >  On Sat, 24
>  Sep 2016
>  >  15:05:24 + (UTC),
>  Christopher Robinson wrote:
>  >  
>  >  > Honestly, your reply is  
>  >  not helpful. I have read through the
>  the
>  >  > handbook and the directions
>  there do not  
>  >  match the screen
>  results.
>  >  
>  > 
>  You'd need to be more specific about
>  >  that.
>  >  
>  >  > I
>  >  > take
>  offense at your arrogant tone in  
>  > 
>  reply to a beginners request for
>  >  
>  >  I wasn't trying to be offensive.
>  >  
>  >  > help.While
>  those with  
>  >  experience may find my
>  request naive, I went to
>  >  > the
>  list for suggestions beyond the  
>  > 
>  handbook.Also, you confuse the two
>  > 
>  >  
>  >  parts of my question in your
>  smackdown.
>  >  
>  > 
>  Firstly, it wasn't a smackdown. Secondly,
>  >  you asked two separate
>  >  questions. I only
>  > 
>  tried to answer one of them, which is why I quoted only
>  >  one.
>  >  
>  >  As has
>  >  been
>  mentioned elsewhere, your problem was caused by missing
>  >  a
>  >  step. The point
>  I was trying to make is
>  >  that it is
>  important to follow
>  >  the handbook
>  >  carefully, so the advice was to read it
>  fully before
>  >  attempting to follow it.
>  Reading it and
>  >  following it at the
>  same time is
>  >  asking for
>  >  trouble.
>  >  
>  >  Experience has
>  > 
>  shown that a large proportion of new user install
>  >  problems are caused by a failure to
>  follow the
>  >  handbook correctly.
>  >  Sometimes this is caused
>  >  by someone thinking they know better and
>  taking
>  >  a shortcut but more often it
>  is simply a
>  >  moaater of a mistake
>  or
>  >  misunderstanding
>  >  somewhere.
>  >  
>  >  
>  >  > Sorry  
>  >  for the annoyance and
>  >  > possibleviolation  
>  >  of list protocol, but I expected a bit
>  more support. 
>  >  > 
>  >  > On  
>  >  Saturday, September 24, 2016 9:47 AM,
>  Neil Bothwick
>  >  >  
>  
>  >  wrote: 
>  >  >
>  
>  >  >  On Sat,  
>  >  24 Sep 2016 12:13:00 + (UTC),
>  Christopher Robinson
>  >  wrote:
>  >  >   
>  >  > > Also,  
>  >  I read that it is possible to install
>  Gentoo from the
>  >  Live
>  >  > > DVD.How do I do
>  that?
>  >  > 
>  >  > You need to read  
>  >  chapter 1 of the Gentoo handbook from
>  start to finish,
>  >  > then read it
>  again. When you understand  
>  >  what is
>  going on, you then boot
>  >  > from 
>  
>  >  the live DVD and follow the
>  installation instructions fro
>  >  the
>  >  > handbook.
>  > 
>  > 
>  >  >   
>  >  
>  >  
>  >  
>  >  
>  >  -- 
>  >  Neil
>  Bothwick
>  >  
>  >  I
>  distinctly remember forgetting
>  >  that.
>  > 
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  -- 
>  Neil Bothwick
>  
>  Never sleep with anyone crazier than
>  yourself.
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Christopher Robinson]

Actually, I was able to set a password although I may not have stated this 
clearly enough for you to get it.I saw the directions about make user, but was 
unsure if this was for root since the manual mentioned a wheeluser.  

On Saturday, September 24, 2016 4:55 PM, Dale  wrote:
 

 Well, you said you hadn't set up any users and their passwords.  That is
part of the install process and is in the guide.  You are told to set up
the root password in one section and to set up a user and its password
in another section.  At the very least, you missed those two parts and
that isn't a assumption, it's based on what you posted.  What else you
missed I'm not sure and most likely, no one else is either.  Rich posted
that he thinks you missed a whole section which may or may not be
correct but we do know you missed at least a couple steps  Given enough
information, someone may be able to figure it out tho. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 



Christopher Robinson wrote:
> Dale,
>
> Your assumption that I missed a section is entirely offbase and does not 
> respond to
> my original question. I could say that you are missing the point of what I 
> asked.
> For those who have had helpful suggestions I give thanks.
>
>
>
> 
> On Sat, 9/24/16, Dale  wrote:
>
>  Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
>  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
>  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:17 PM
>  
>  Again, top posting to
>  follow his lead. 
>  
>  It's
>  not a fight.  It's just called being prepared. 
>  Missing a section
>  isn't going to give
>  you a proper install.  It's one reason I always
>  recommend a person read the docs several
>  times.  The reason for that, if
>  something
>  doesn't seem right, you will more than likely notice it
>  and go
>  back and figure out what was
>  missed.  The fact that I don't see a
>  all-in-one page guide isn't helping you
>  any.  If it was on one page,
>  even as a
>  option for those who don't like it, then you likely
>  wouldn't
>  have missed a section.  Just
>  start at the top and work your way down. 
>  Maybe after this, someone will see the need for
>  at least some of us to
>  have it all in one
>  long page.  Maybe Rich can whisper in someone's
>  ear.  I guess printing it and
>  putting it in order would work but that
>  means a lot of typing when a lot of times, a
>  copy and paste will be
>  easier. 
>  
>  Thing is, it's hard to
>  tell what was wrong because no one knew you
>  missed a section, I suspect Neil did sort of
>  figure that to be the case
>  tho which is why
>  he replied with what he did.  What we do know, if you
>  follow the guide, you should get a bootable
>  system.  It may not be 100%
>  perfect but it
>  should boot at least.  Gentoo has some excellent docs,
>  especially the install part.  Unless you have
>  some pretty odd hardware,
>  it should work.
>  
>  
>  One thing I learned the
>  hard way.  Pretty much no matter what you may
>  mess up, you can chroot in and go back and fix
>  it. Just boot using
>  whatever media you
>  selected, follow the mount and chroot section and
>  then correct whatever is wrong.  You do NOT
>  have to start from scratch
>  most of the
>  time.  You'd have to have made a boo boo in the very
>  early
>  stages to end up doing that. 
>  
>  I'm just hoping you can
>  fix this easily and finish your install.  :-)
>  
>  Dale
>  
>  :-)  :-) 
>  
>  
>  Christopher Robinson wrote:
>  > I don't really want to get into a
>  fight, but some of the replies-not Rich's- are
>  missing
>  > the point I am raising. To then
>  disparage me is unworthy for a support list.
>  >
>  
>  > On Sat, 9/24/16, Dale 
>  wrote:
>  >
>  >  Subject:
>  Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
>  >  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
>  >  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 3:44
>  PM
>  >  
>  >  Rich
>  Freeman wrote:
>  >  > On Sat, Sep 24,
>  2016 at 11:35 AM, Dale
>  >  
>  >  wrote:
>  >  >>
>  Actually, he is correct.
>  >  >
>  Actually, he isn't, which is hard to
>  >  demonstrate since everybody is
>  top-posting.
>  >  
>  > 
>  Actually he is and your reply
>  > 
>  supports that point.  Also, I top posted
>  >  because he did and I posted that
>  reasoning. 
>  >  I'm sure he will get
>  around
>  >  to bottom
>  >  posting when he gets his install done. 
>  Who knows what he
>  >  is
>  >  using at the moment. 
>  >  >
>  >  >> On
>  Saturday,
>  >  September 24, 2016 9:47 AM,
>  Neil Bothwick 
>  >  >> wrote:
>  > 
>  >>
>  >  >> You need to read
>  chapter 1 of the
>  >  Gentoo handbook from
>  start to finish,
>  >  >> then read
>  it again.
>  >  > The handbook
>  doesn't have chapters. 
>  >  The step
>  that was missed was well
>  >  > into
>  >  the process.
>  > 
>  >
>  >  
>  >  If he
>  was reading and following the install
>  > 
>  guide, how did he 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[J. Roeleveld]

On September 24, 2016 10:43:58 PM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson 
 wrote:
>Funny how you used XXX when I SPECIFCALLY mentioned mentioned the LIVE
>DVD
>as opposed to the minimal install cd. That was the whole point which
>you missed in
>jumping to conclusions about my ignorance. 


The path to be followed when installing Gentoo is the same, regardless of which 
media you use.
Only requirement is that the media is semi recent. Most people here prefer to 
use sysresccd as it contains a lot of usefull tools to make the first steps 
easy and as it's Gentoo based, most of the system already matches.

The path is explained and described in great detail in the handbook as already 
mentioned.

--
Joost


>
>On Sat, 9/24/16, Neil Bothwick  wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:38 PM
> 
> On Sat, 24 Sep 2016
> 20:31:13 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:
> 
> > You are giving a generic
> answer to what you see as a generic question.
> > I really can't  play 20 questions by
> repeating over until the light
> > comes
> on.
> 
> I'm sorry, but
> "Can I install from disc XXX?" is a generic
> question.
> 
> The more specific
> and detailed the question, the more specific and
> detailed the answers. But the response was
> given freely and it's entirely
> up to you
> what you do with it.
> 
> 
> 
> > On Sat, 9/24/16, Neil Bothwick 
> wrote:
> > 
> >  Subject:
> Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
> >  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> >  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:21
> PM
> >  
> >  On Sat, 24
> Sep 2016
> >  15:05:24 + (UTC),
> Christopher Robinson wrote:
> >  
> >  > Honestly, your reply is  
> >  not helpful. I have read through the
> the
> >  > handbook and the directions
> there do not  
> >  match the screen
> results.
> >  
> > 
> You'd need to be more specific about
> >  that.
> >  
> >  > I
> >  > take
> offense at your arrogant tone in  
> > 
> reply to a beginners request for
> >  
> >  I wasn't trying to be offensive.
> >  
> >  > help.While
> those with  
> >  experience may find my
> request naive, I went to
> >  > the
> list for suggestions beyond the  
> > 
> handbook.Also, you confuse the two
> > 
> >  
> >  parts of my question in your
> smackdown.
> >  
> > 
> Firstly, it wasn't a smackdown. Secondly,
> >  you asked two separate
> >  questions. I only
> > 
> tried to answer one of them, which is why I quoted only
> >  one.
> >  
> >  As has
> >  been
> mentioned elsewhere, your problem was caused by missing
> >  a
> >  step. The point
> I was trying to make is
> >  that it is
> important to follow
> >  the handbook
> >  carefully, so the advice was to read it
> fully before
> >  attempting to follow it.
> Reading it and
> >  following it at the
> same time is
> >  asking for
> >  trouble.
> >  
> >  Experience has
> > 
> shown that a large proportion of new user install
> >  problems are caused by a failure to
> follow the
> >  handbook correctly.
> >  Sometimes this is caused
> >  by someone thinking they know better and
> taking
> >  a shortcut but more often it
> is simply a
> >  moaater of a mistake
> or
> >  misunderstanding
> >  somewhere.
> >  
> >  
> >  > Sorry  
> >  for the annoyance and
> >  > possibleviolation  
> >  of list protocol, but I expected a bit
> more support. 
> >  > 
> >  >     On  
> >  Saturday, September 24, 2016 9:47 AM,
> Neil Bothwick
> >  >  
> 
> >  wrote: 
> >  >
> 
> >  >  On Sat,  
> >  24 Sep 2016 12:13:00 + (UTC),
> Christopher Robinson
> >  wrote:
> >  >   
> >  > > Also,  
> >  I read that it is possible to install
> Gentoo from the
> >  Live
> >  > > DVD.How do I do
> that?
> >  > 
> >  > You need to read  
> >  chapter 1 of the Gentoo handbook from
> start to finish,
> >  > then read it
> again. When you understand  
> >  what is
> going on, you then boot
> >  > from 
> 
> >  the live DVD and follow the
> installation instructions fro
> >  the
> >  > handbook.
> > 
> > 
> >  >   
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  -- 
> >  Neil
> Bothwick
> >  
> >  I
> distinctly remember forgetting
> >  that.
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Neil Bothwick
> 
> Never sleep with anyone crazier than
> yourself.


-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[J. Roeleveld]

On September 24, 2016 10:54:56 PM GMT+02:00, Dale  wrote:
>Well, you said you hadn't set up any users and their passwords.  That
>is
>part of the install process and is in the guide.  You are told to set
>up
>the root password in one section and to set up a user and its password
>in another section.  At the very least, you missed those two parts and
>that isn't a assumption, it's based on what you posted.  What else you
>missed I'm not sure and most likely, no one else is either.  Rich
>posted
>that he thinks you missed a whole section which may or may not be
>correct but we do know you missed at least a couple steps  Given enough
>information, someone may be able to figure it out tho. 

Dale,

You should know better. Please don't make it worse by top-posting even more.

>From what I understand from this nightmare of a messy thread, the OP seems to 
>be looking for an install-script/tool.
This does not exist other than the simple to follow handbook.

--
Joost


>
>
>
>Christopher Robinson wrote:
>> Dale,
>>
>> Your assumption that I missed a section is entirely offbase and does
>not respond to
>> my original question. I could say that you are missing the point of
>what I asked.
>> For those who have had helpful suggestions I give thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> On Sat, 9/24/16, Dale  wrote:
>>
>>  Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
>>  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
>>  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:17 PM
>>  
>>  Again, top posting to
>>  follow his lead. 
>>  
>>  It's
>>  not a fight.  It's just called being prepared. 
>>  Missing a section
>>  isn't going to give
>>  you a proper install.  It's one reason I always
>>  recommend a person read the docs several
>>  times.  The reason for that, if
>>  something
>>  doesn't seem right, you will more than likely notice it
>>  and go
>>  back and figure out what was
>>  missed.  The fact that I don't see a
>>  all-in-one page guide isn't helping you
>>  any.  If it was on one page,
>>  even as a
>>  option for those who don't like it, then you likely
>>  wouldn't
>>  have missed a section.  Just
>>  start at the top and work your way down. 
>>  Maybe after this, someone will see the need for
>>  at least some of us to
>>  have it all in one
>>  long page.  Maybe Rich can whisper in someone's
>>  ear.   I guess printing it and
>>  putting it in order would work but that
>>  means a lot of typing when a lot of times, a
>>  copy and paste will be
>>  easier. 
>>  
>>  Thing is, it's hard to
>>  tell what was wrong because no one knew you
>>  missed a section, I suspect Neil did sort of
>>  figure that to be the case
>>  tho which is why
>>  he replied with what he did.  What we do know, if you
>>  follow the guide, you should get a bootable
>>  system.  It may not be 100%
>>  perfect but it
>>  should boot at least.  Gentoo has some excellent docs,
>>  especially the install part.  Unless you have
>>  some pretty odd hardware,
>>  it should work.
>>  
>>  
>>  One thing I learned the
>>  hard way.  Pretty much no matter what you may
>>  mess up, you can chroot in and go back and fix
>>  it. Just boot using
>>  whatever media you
>>  selected, follow the mount and chroot section and
>>  then correct whatever is wrong.  You do NOT
>>  have to start from scratch
>>  most of the
>>  time.  You'd have to have made a boo boo in the very
>>  early
>>  stages to end up doing that. 
>>  
>>  I'm just hoping you can
>>  fix this easily and finish your install.  :-)
>>  
>>  Dale
>>  
>>  :-)  :-) 
>>  
>>  
>>  Christopher Robinson wrote:
>>  > I don't really want to get into a
>>  fight, but some of the replies-not Rich's- are
>>  missing
>>  > the point I am raising. To then
>>  disparage me is unworthy for a support list.
>>  >
>>  
>>  > On Sat, 9/24/16, Dale 
>>  wrote:
>>  >
>>  >  Subject:
>>  Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
>>  >  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
>>  >  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 3:44
>>  PM
>>  >  
>>  >  Rich
>>  Freeman wrote:
>>  >  > On Sat, Sep 24,
>>  2016 at 11:35 AM, Dale
>>  >  
>>  >  wrote:
>>  >  >>
>>  Actually, he is correct.
>>  >  >
>>  Actually, he isn't, which is hard to
>>  >  demonstrate since everybody is
>>  top-posting.
>>  >  
>>  > 
>>  Actually he is and your reply
>>  > 
>>  supports that point.  Also, I top posted
>>  >  because he did and I posted that
>>  reasoning. 
>>  >  I'm sure he will get
>>  around
>>  >  to bottom
>>  >  posting when he gets his install done. 
>>  Who knows what he
>>  >  is
>>  >  using at the moment. 
>>  >  >
>>  >  >> On
>>  Saturday,
>>  >  September 24, 2016 9:47 AM,
>>  Neil Bothwick 
>>  >  >> wrote:
>>  > 
>>  >>
>>  >  >> You need to read
>>  chapter 1 of the
>>  >  Gentoo handbook from
>>  start to finish,
>>  >  >> then read
>>  it again.
>>  >  > The handbook
>>  doesn't 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[J. Roeleveld]

On September 24, 2016 10:40:16 PM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson 
 wrote:
>Rich responded to my question. I don't feel much like repeating.
>I need the command to run the install after getting live cd # ~

First: STOP top posting
Second: Fix your mailer and stop posting in HTML
Third: Stop starting new threads

This will make following this simpler.

As for your latest question. After booting with A install CD/USB/whatever, you 
need to follow the entire install guide.

There is NO installer that does it all for you.

--
Joost



>
>On Sat, 9/24/16, Neil Bothwick  wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:35 PM
> 
> On Sat, 24 Sep 2016
> 16:15:01 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:
> 
> > Thank you for at least
> responding to my question. I did try creating a
> > password in root, but I could not boot
> from there.
> 
> As Rich said,
> if you can't boot, the password is not the problem. What
> is
> the error message you get when trying to
> boot?
> 
> > I will check out
> > the other manual suggestion. I had tried
> Systemrescue CD earlier, but
> > it
> displayed in a tiny screen resolution, unreadable even with
> a
> > magnifying lens.
> 
> Press C or E (depending on
> which kernel you want) at the main menu and
> you'll get several more options including
> choices of screen resolution.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Neil
> Bothwick
> 
> A Microsoft joke
> (is that a tautology?)


-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Dale]

Well, you said you hadn't set up any users and their passwords.  That is
part of the install process and is in the guide.  You are told to set up
the root password in one section and to set up a user and its password
in another section.  At the very least, you missed those two parts and
that isn't a assumption, it's based on what you posted.  What else you
missed I'm not sure and most likely, no one else is either.  Rich posted
that he thinks you missed a whole section which may or may not be
correct but we do know you missed at least a couple steps  Given enough
information, someone may be able to figure it out tho. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 



Christopher Robinson wrote:
> Dale,
>
> Your assumption that I missed a section is entirely offbase and does not 
> respond to
> my original question. I could say that you are missing the point of what I 
> asked.
> For those who have had helpful suggestions I give thanks.
>
>
>
> 
> On Sat, 9/24/16, Dale  wrote:
>
>  Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
>  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
>  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:17 PM
>  
>  Again, top posting to
>  follow his lead. 
>  
>  It's
>  not a fight.  It's just called being prepared. 
>  Missing a section
>  isn't going to give
>  you a proper install.  It's one reason I always
>  recommend a person read the docs several
>  times.  The reason for that, if
>  something
>  doesn't seem right, you will more than likely notice it
>  and go
>  back and figure out what was
>  missed.  The fact that I don't see a
>  all-in-one page guide isn't helping you
>  any.  If it was on one page,
>  even as a
>  option for those who don't like it, then you likely
>  wouldn't
>  have missed a section.  Just
>  start at the top and work your way down. 
>  Maybe after this, someone will see the need for
>  at least some of us to
>  have it all in one
>  long page.  Maybe Rich can whisper in someone's
>  ear.   I guess printing it and
>  putting it in order would work but that
>  means a lot of typing when a lot of times, a
>  copy and paste will be
>  easier. 
>  
>  Thing is, it's hard to
>  tell what was wrong because no one knew you
>  missed a section, I suspect Neil did sort of
>  figure that to be the case
>  tho which is why
>  he replied with what he did.  What we do know, if you
>  follow the guide, you should get a bootable
>  system.  It may not be 100%
>  perfect but it
>  should boot at least.  Gentoo has some excellent docs,
>  especially the install part.  Unless you have
>  some pretty odd hardware,
>  it should work.
>  
>  
>  One thing I learned the
>  hard way.  Pretty much no matter what you may
>  mess up, you can chroot in and go back and fix
>  it. Just boot using
>  whatever media you
>  selected, follow the mount and chroot section and
>  then correct whatever is wrong.  You do NOT
>  have to start from scratch
>  most of the
>  time.  You'd have to have made a boo boo in the very
>  early
>  stages to end up doing that. 
>  
>  I'm just hoping you can
>  fix this easily and finish your install.  :-)
>  
>  Dale
>  
>  :-)  :-) 
>  
>  
>  Christopher Robinson wrote:
>  > I don't really want to get into a
>  fight, but some of the replies-not Rich's- are
>  missing
>  > the point I am raising. To then
>  disparage me is unworthy for a support list.
>  >
>  
>  > On Sat, 9/24/16, Dale 
>  wrote:
>  >
>  >  Subject:
>  Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
>  >  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
>  >  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 3:44
>  PM
>  >  
>  >  Rich
>  Freeman wrote:
>  >  > On Sat, Sep 24,
>  2016 at 11:35 AM, Dale
>  >  
>  >  wrote:
>  >  >>
>  Actually, he is correct.
>  >  >
>  Actually, he isn't, which is hard to
>  >  demonstrate since everybody is
>  top-posting.
>  >  
>  > 
>  Actually he is and your reply
>  > 
>  supports that point.  Also, I top posted
>  >  because he did and I posted that
>  reasoning. 
>  >  I'm sure he will get
>  around
>  >  to bottom
>  >  posting when he gets his install done. 
>  Who knows what he
>  >  is
>  >  using at the moment. 
>  >  >
>  >  >> On
>  Saturday,
>  >  September 24, 2016 9:47 AM,
>  Neil Bothwick 
>  >  >> wrote:
>  > 
>  >>
>  >  >> You need to read
>  chapter 1 of the
>  >  Gentoo handbook from
>  start to finish,
>  >  >> then read
>  it again.
>  >  > The handbook
>  doesn't have chapters. 
>  >  The step
>  that was missed was well
>  >  > into
>  >  the process.
>  > 
>  >
>  >  
>  >  If he
>  was reading and following the install
>  > 
>  guide, how did he do that
>  >  when he
>  missed a
>  >  whole section?  Obviously,
>  he wasn't following it
>  >  since
>  >  he missed the section.  When I did
>  my
>  >  first install well over a
>  decade
>  >  ago, I read
>  >  that thing at least three of four times
>  to even see if I
>  >  wanted to try
>  Gentoo.  

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Christopher Robinson]

Funny how you used XXX when I SPECIFCALLY mentioned mentioned the LIVE DVD
as opposed to the minimal install cd. That was the whole point which you missed 
in
jumping to conclusions about my ignorance. 

On Sat, 9/24/16, Neil Bothwick  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:38 PM
 
 On Sat, 24 Sep 2016
 20:31:13 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:
 
 > You are giving a generic
 answer to what you see as a generic question.
 > I really can't  play 20 questions by
 repeating over until the light
 > comes
 on.
 
 I'm sorry, but
 "Can I install from disc XXX?" is a generic
 question.
 
 The more specific
 and detailed the question, the more specific and
 detailed the answers. But the response was
 given freely and it's entirely
 up to you
 what you do with it.
 
 
 
 > On Sat, 9/24/16, Neil Bothwick 
 wrote:
 > 
 >  Subject:
 Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 >  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 >  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:21
 PM
 >  
 >  On Sat, 24
 Sep 2016
 >  15:05:24 + (UTC),
 Christopher Robinson wrote:
 >  
 >  > Honestly, your reply is  
 >  not helpful. I have read through the
 the
 >  > handbook and the directions
 there do not  
 >  match the screen
 results.
 >  
 > 
 You'd need to be more specific about
 >  that.
 >  
 >  > I
 >  > take
 offense at your arrogant tone in  
 > 
 reply to a beginners request for
 >  
 >  I wasn't trying to be offensive.
 >  
 >  > help.While
 those with  
 >  experience may find my
 request naive, I went to
 >  > the
 list for suggestions beyond the  
 > 
 handbook.Also, you confuse the two
 > 
 >  
 >  parts of my question in your
 smackdown.
 >  
 > 
 Firstly, it wasn't a smackdown. Secondly,
 >  you asked two separate
 >  questions. I only
 > 
 tried to answer one of them, which is why I quoted only
 >  one.
 >  
 >  As has
 >  been
 mentioned elsewhere, your problem was caused by missing
 >  a
 >  step. The point
 I was trying to make is
 >  that it is
 important to follow
 >  the handbook
 >  carefully, so the advice was to read it
 fully before
 >  attempting to follow it.
 Reading it and
 >  following it at the
 same time is
 >  asking for
 >  trouble.
 >  
 >  Experience has
 > 
 shown that a large proportion of new user install
 >  problems are caused by a failure to
 follow the
 >  handbook correctly.
 >  Sometimes this is caused
 >  by someone thinking they know better and
 taking
 >  a shortcut but more often it
 is simply a
 >  moaater of a mistake
 or
 >  misunderstanding
 >  somewhere.
 >  
 >  
 >  > Sorry  
 >  for the annoyance and
 >  > possibleviolation  
 >  of list protocol, but I expected a bit
 more support. 
 >  > 
 >  >     On  
 >  Saturday, September 24, 2016 9:47 AM,
 Neil Bothwick
 >  >  
 
 >  wrote: 
 >  >
 
 >  >  On Sat,  
 >  24 Sep 2016 12:13:00 + (UTC),
 Christopher Robinson
 >  wrote:
 >  >   
 >  > > Also,  
 >  I read that it is possible to install
 Gentoo from the
 >  Live
 >  > > DVD.How do I do
 that?
 >  > 
 >  > You need to read  
 >  chapter 1 of the Gentoo handbook from
 start to finish,
 >  > then read it
 again. When you understand  
 >  what is
 going on, you then boot
 >  > from 
 
 >  the live DVD and follow the
 installation instructions fro
 >  the
 >  > handbook.
 > 
 > 
 >  >   
 >  
 >  
 >  
 >  
 >  -- 
 >  Neil
 Bothwick
 >  
 >  I
 distinctly remember forgetting
 >  that.
 > 
 
 
 
 
 -- 
 Neil Bothwick
 
 Never sleep with anyone crazier than
 yourself.

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Christopher Robinson]

Rich responded to my question. I don't feel much like repeating.
I need the command to run the install after getting live cd # ~

On Sat, 9/24/16, Neil Bothwick  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:35 PM
 
 On Sat, 24 Sep 2016
 16:15:01 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:
 
 > Thank you for at least
 responding to my question. I did try creating a
 > password in root, but I could not boot
 from there.
 
 As Rich said,
 if you can't boot, the password is not the problem. What
 is
 the error message you get when trying to
 boot?
 
 > I will check out
 > the other manual suggestion. I had tried
 Systemrescue CD earlier, but
 > it
 displayed in a tiny screen resolution, unreadable even with
 a
 > magnifying lens.
 
 Press C or E (depending on
 which kernel you want) at the main menu and
 you'll get several more options including
 choices of screen resolution.
 
 
 -- 
 Neil
 Bothwick
 
 A Microsoft joke
 (is that a tautology?)

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 20:31:13 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:

> You are giving a generic answer to what you see as a generic question.
> I really can't  play 20 questions by repeating over until the light
> comes on.

I'm sorry, but "Can I install from disc XXX?" is a generic question.

The more specific and detailed the question, the more specific and
detailed the answers. But the response was given freely and it's entirely
up to you what you do with it.

 
> On Sat, 9/24/16, Neil Bothwick  wrote:
> 
>  Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
>  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
>  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:21 PM
>  
>  On Sat, 24 Sep 2016
>  15:05:24 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:
>  
>  > Honestly, your reply is  
>  not helpful. I have read through the the
>  > handbook and the directions there do not  
>  match the screen results.
>  
>  You'd need to be more specific about
>  that.
>  
>  > I
>  > take offense at your arrogant tone in  
>  reply to a beginners request for
>  
>  I wasn't trying to be offensive.
>  
>  > help.While those with  
>  experience may find my request naive, I went to
>  > the list for suggestions beyond the  
>  handbook.Also, you confuse the two
>  >  
>  parts of my question in your smackdown.
>  
>  Firstly, it wasn't a smackdown. Secondly,
>  you asked two separate
>  questions. I only
>  tried to answer one of them, which is why I quoted only
>  one.
>  
>  As has
>  been mentioned elsewhere, your problem was caused by missing
>  a
>  step. The point I was trying to make is
>  that it is important to follow
>  the handbook
>  carefully, so the advice was to read it fully before
>  attempting to follow it. Reading it and
>  following it at the same time is
>  asking for
>  trouble.
>  
>  Experience has
>  shown that a large proportion of new user install
>  problems are caused by a failure to follow the
>  handbook correctly.
>  Sometimes this is caused
>  by someone thinking they know better and taking
>  a shortcut but more often it is simply a
>  moaater of a mistake or
>  misunderstanding
>  somewhere.
>  
>  
>  > Sorry  
>  for the annoyance and
>  > possibleviolation  
>  of list protocol, but I expected a bit more support. 
>  > 
>  >     On  
>  Saturday, September 24, 2016 9:47 AM, Neil Bothwick
>  >   
>  wrote: 
>  > 
>  >  On Sat,  
>  24 Sep 2016 12:13:00 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson
>  wrote:
>  >   
>  > > Also,  
>  I read that it is possible to install Gentoo from the
>  Live
>  > > DVD.How do I do that?    
>  > 
>  > You need to read  
>  chapter 1 of the Gentoo handbook from start to finish,
>  > then read it again. When you understand  
>  what is going on, you then boot
>  > from  
>  the live DVD and follow the installation instructions fro
>  the
>  > handbook.
>  > 
>  >   
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  -- 
>  Neil Bothwick
>  
>  I distinctly remember forgetting
>  that.
> 




-- 
Neil Bothwick

Never sleep with anyone crazier than yourself.


pgpKuQT_a75Dj.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Christopher Robinson]

Rich,

Again thanks for a specific reply, unlike Dale and Neil's.
I was detailing the end result after compiling the minimal install CD.
I will check the manual to see if it addresses this. I was hoping to get
a quick answer from the list and not to cause a ruckus.


On Sat, 9/24/16, Rich Freeman  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:00 PM
 
 On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at
 3:22 PM, Christopher Robinson
 
 wrote:
 > Thanks again for your response.
 After compiling I get the prompt: live cd # ~
 > I do not know what command to use to boot
 the install. I looked through the manual
 > but I did not see an answer for this. The
 directions seemed to apply to a very
 >
 different install scenario.
 
 
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Bootloader#Rebooting_the_system
 
 That is the last step after
 configuring the bootloader (if you don't
 configure the bootloader first you won't be
 able to boot the system).
 Are you sure you
 completed all the steps in the handbook?  I'm not
 sure what you were compiling as there are a few
 places where this can
 happen.
 
 -- 
 Rich
 
 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 16:15:01 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:

> Thank you for at least responding to my question. I did try creating a
> password in root, but I could not boot from there.

As Rich said, if you can't boot, the password is not the problem. What is
the error message you get when trying to boot?

> I will check out
> the other manual suggestion. I had tried Systemrescue CD earlier, but
> it displayed in a tiny screen resolution, unreadable even with a
> magnifying lens.

Press C or E (depending on which kernel you want) at the main menu and
you'll get several more options including choices of screen resolution.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

A Microsoft joke (is that a tautology?)


pgp3N7C3ERuKX.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Dale]

Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 3:44 PM, Dale  wrote:
>> Rich Freeman wrote:
>>> On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 11:35 AM, Dale  wrote:
 Actually, he is correct.
>>> Actually, he isn't, which is hard to demonstrate since everybody is 
>>> top-posting.
>> Actually he is and your reply supports that point.
> Actually, he isn't.  I'd suggest reading chapter 1 of my email "at
> least three or four times" to find the part where I pointed out his
> mistake.


OK.  You're saying he was following the install guide even tho he missed
a WHOLE section?  Right?  Come on Rich.  You know better than that.  How
can anyone follow something they missed?  As I just posted to the OP,
maybe Neil knew he missed something but wasn't sure what and that is the
reason he told him to go back and look at the docs.  When I read it,
it's what popped into my head, he missed something.  If Neil hadn't
posted it, I may have myself.  If the docs were wrong on something,
someone would have posted that a long time ago.  It's not like Gentoo
has some 5th rate docs.  Heck, I'd put them at the #1 spot every day of
the week and twice on Sunday.  Key thing is, follow them as close as
possible unless your hardware requires something different. 


>> Now that he knows he missed a section, maybe he can chroot into it, do
>> that section and finish the install.  That is unless his mobo blows out.  :/
>>
> Certainly, but not if somebody doesn't take the time to point that out
> and explain it, vs just telling him to read only "chapter 1" of the
> handbook a few more times.
>
> I do agree that he is missing a few steps but I'll go ahead and admit
> that I occasionally miss a step on a Gentoo install because the
> handbook is fairly verbose and it is easy to skip over the wrong part.
> It would actually make sense to have a checklist to go along with it
> so that it is harder to skip the wrong section.
>
> Bottom line though is that if you aren't going to tailor your email to
> the questions being asked it isn't terribly helpful.
>

It would be helpful.  If a section is missed, go back and recheck what
was done and what wasn't.  This is where bash history comes in handy. 
You know what commands were done and in what order at that.  Of course,
one could print the thing and check it off on the pages.  Yikes, hard
copies.  o_O 

Since you are here, any chance we could get a all-in-one page for this? 
That is what I prefer to use myself.  Start at the top and work your way
down.  If you have to click on links and such to weave around to
different sections, that opens up the opportunity to miss a section.  I
guess a check list would help but depending on hardware, some steps may
not be needed or some steps may need to be added.  For me at least, a
one page guide would be what I would want.  It's what I used the first
time I installed and I think the last time as well.  If I were going to
reinstall tomorrow, I'd be looking awful hard for a one page guide. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Christopher Robinson]

You are giving a generic answer to what you see as a generic question.
I really can't  play 20 questions by repeating over until the light comes on.

On Sat, 9/24/16, Neil Bothwick  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:21 PM
 
 On Sat, 24 Sep 2016
 15:05:24 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:
 
 > Honestly, your reply is
 not helpful. I have read through the the
 > handbook and the directions there do not
 match the screen results.
 
 You'd need to be more specific about
 that.
 
 > I
 > take offense at your arrogant tone in
 reply to a beginners request for
 
 I wasn't trying to be offensive.
 
 > help.While those with
 experience may find my request naive, I went to
 > the list for suggestions beyond the
 handbook.Also, you confuse the two
 >
 parts of my question in your smackdown.
 
 Firstly, it wasn't a smackdown. Secondly,
 you asked two separate
 questions. I only
 tried to answer one of them, which is why I quoted only
 one.
 
 As has
 been mentioned elsewhere, your problem was caused by missing
 a
 step. The point I was trying to make is
 that it is important to follow
 the handbook
 carefully, so the advice was to read it fully before
 attempting to follow it. Reading it and
 following it at the same time is
 asking for
 trouble.
 
 Experience has
 shown that a large proportion of new user install
 problems are caused by a failure to follow the
 handbook correctly.
 Sometimes this is caused
 by someone thinking they know better and taking
 a shortcut but more often it is simply a
 moaater of a mistake or
 misunderstanding
 somewhere.
 
 
 > Sorry
 for the annoyance and
 > possibleviolation
 of list protocol, but I expected a bit more support. 
 > 
 >     On
 Saturday, September 24, 2016 9:47 AM, Neil Bothwick
 > 
 wrote: 
 > 
 >  On Sat,
 24 Sep 2016 12:13:00 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson
 wrote:
 > 
 > > Also,
 I read that it is possible to install Gentoo from the
 Live
 > > DVD.How do I do that?  
 > 
 > You need to read
 chapter 1 of the Gentoo handbook from start to finish,
 > then read it again. When you understand
 what is going on, you then boot
 > from
 the live DVD and follow the installation instructions fro
 the
 > handbook.
 > 
 > 
 
 
 
 
 -- 
 Neil Bothwick
 
 I distinctly remember forgetting
 that.

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Christopher Robinson]

Dale,

Your assumption that I missed a section is entirely offbase and does not 
respond to
my original question. I could say that you are missing the point of what I 
asked.
For those who have had helpful suggestions I give thanks.




On Sat, 9/24/16, Dale  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:17 PM
 
 Again, top posting to
 follow his lead. 
 
 It's
 not a fight.  It's just called being prepared. 
 Missing a section
 isn't going to give
 you a proper install.  It's one reason I always
 recommend a person read the docs several
 times.  The reason for that, if
 something
 doesn't seem right, you will more than likely notice it
 and go
 back and figure out what was
 missed.  The fact that I don't see a
 all-in-one page guide isn't helping you
 any.  If it was on one page,
 even as a
 option for those who don't like it, then you likely
 wouldn't
 have missed a section.  Just
 start at the top and work your way down. 
 Maybe after this, someone will see the need for
 at least some of us to
 have it all in one
 long page.  Maybe Rich can whisper in someone's
 ear.   I guess printing it and
 putting it in order would work but that
 means a lot of typing when a lot of times, a
 copy and paste will be
 easier. 
 
 Thing is, it's hard to
 tell what was wrong because no one knew you
 missed a section, I suspect Neil did sort of
 figure that to be the case
 tho which is why
 he replied with what he did.  What we do know, if you
 follow the guide, you should get a bootable
 system.  It may not be 100%
 perfect but it
 should boot at least.  Gentoo has some excellent docs,
 especially the install part.  Unless you have
 some pretty odd hardware,
 it should work.
 
 
 One thing I learned the
 hard way.  Pretty much no matter what you may
 mess up, you can chroot in and go back and fix
 it. Just boot using
 whatever media you
 selected, follow the mount and chroot section and
 then correct whatever is wrong.  You do NOT
 have to start from scratch
 most of the
 time.  You'd have to have made a boo boo in the very
 early
 stages to end up doing that. 
 
 I'm just hoping you can
 fix this easily and finish your install.  :-)
 
 Dale
 
 :-)  :-) 
 
 
 Christopher Robinson wrote:
 > I don't really want to get into a
 fight, but some of the replies-not Rich's- are
 missing
 > the point I am raising. To then
 disparage me is unworthy for a support list.
 >
 
 > On Sat, 9/24/16, Dale 
 wrote:
 >
 >  Subject:
 Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 >  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 >  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 3:44
 PM
 >  
 >  Rich
 Freeman wrote:
 >  > On Sat, Sep 24,
 2016 at 11:35 AM, Dale
 >  
 >  wrote:
 >  >>
 Actually, he is correct.
 >  >
 Actually, he isn't, which is hard to
 >  demonstrate since everybody is
 top-posting.
 >  
 > 
 Actually he is and your reply
 > 
 supports that point.  Also, I top posted
 >  because he did and I posted that
 reasoning. 
 >  I'm sure he will get
 around
 >  to bottom
 >  posting when he gets his install done. 
 Who knows what he
 >  is
 >  using at the moment. 
 >  >
 >  >> On
 Saturday,
 >  September 24, 2016 9:47 AM,
 Neil Bothwick 
 >  >> wrote:
 > 
 >>
 >  >> You need to read
 chapter 1 of the
 >  Gentoo handbook from
 start to finish,
 >  >> then read
 it again.
 >  > The handbook
 doesn't have chapters. 
 >  The step
 that was missed was well
 >  > into
 >  the process.
 > 
 >
 >  
 >  If he
 was reading and following the install
 > 
 guide, how did he do that
 >  when he
 missed a
 >  whole section?  Obviously,
 he wasn't following it
 >  since
 >  he missed the section.  When I did
 my
 >  first install well over a
 decade
 >  ago, I read
 >  that thing at least three of four times
 to even see if I
 >  wanted to try
 Gentoo.  During my last install
 >  on
 my new rig a few years
 >  ago, I read
 it
 >  twice even tho it was mostly the
 same.  Installing
 >  Gentoo
 >  isn't easy but it is very hard
 >  when you are not familiar enough with
 the
 >  process to even realize you
 missed a whole
 >  section.  If you
 follow the
 >  guide and
 >  don't miss anything, it should
 work.  The only major
 >  set back
 >  you can have is a badly configured
 >  kernel that won't complete the
 boot
 >  process.  I might add, this is
 also why I
 >  prefer a one page guide.
 
 >  Start at the top
 >  and work your way to the bottom.  Very
 little chance of
 >  missing anything
 then. 
 >  
 >  Now
 that he knows he missed a section, maybe he
 >  can chroot into it, do
 >  that section and
 > 
 finish the install.  That is unless his mobo blows out. 
 >  :/
 >  
 >  Dale
 >  
 >  :-)  :-) 
 >  
 >  
 >
 >
 
 
 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 16:16:00 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:

> > Call it Part 1 or Volume 1 if you prefer, the handbook itself doesn't
> > give such a label to the four sections. I meant the part called
> > "1. Installing Gentoo".
> >  
> 
> Great, where in that part does it tell you how to set a root password?

I couldn't tell you without looking, but I wasn't answering that
question. I quoted only the part I was answering.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

I'd tell you a UDP joke, but you may not get it.


pgpQpPmxs6oZy.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:05:24 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:

> Honestly, your reply is not helpful. I have read through the the
> handbook and the directions there do not match the screen results.

You'd need to be more specific about that.

> I
> take offense at your arrogant tone in reply to a beginners request for

I wasn't trying to be offensive.

> help.While those with experience may find my request naive, I went to
> the list for suggestions beyond the handbook.Also, you confuse the two
> parts of my question in your smackdown.

Firstly, it wasn't a smackdown. Secondly, you asked two separate
questions. I only tried to answer one of them, which is why I quoted only
one.

As has been mentioned elsewhere, your problem was caused by missing a
step. The point I was trying to make is that it is important to follow
the handbook carefully, so the advice was to read it fully before
attempting to follow it. Reading it and following it at the same time is
asking for trouble.

Experience has shown that a large proportion of new user install
problems are caused by a failure to follow the handbook correctly.
Sometimes this is caused by someone thinking they know better and taking
a shortcut but more often it is simply a moaater of a mistake or
misunderstanding somewhere.


> Sorry for the annoyance and
> possibleviolation of list protocol, but I expected a bit more support. 
> 
> On Saturday, September 24, 2016 9:47 AM, Neil Bothwick
>  wrote: 
> 
>  On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 12:13:00 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:
> 
> > Also, I read that it is possible to install Gentoo from the Live
> > DVD.How do I do that?  
> 
> You need to read chapter 1 of the Gentoo handbook from start to finish,
> then read it again. When you understand what is going on, you then boot
> from the live DVD and follow the installation instructions fro the
> handbook.
> 
> 




-- 
Neil Bothwick

I distinctly remember forgetting that.


pgpJQMV8YVo_W.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Dale]

Again, top posting to follow his lead. 

It's not a fight.  It's just called being prepared.  Missing a section
isn't going to give you a proper install.  It's one reason I always
recommend a person read the docs several times.  The reason for that, if
something doesn't seem right, you will more than likely notice it and go
back and figure out what was missed.  The fact that I don't see a
all-in-one page guide isn't helping you any.  If it was on one page,
even as a option for those who don't like it, then you likely wouldn't
have missed a section.  Just start at the top and work your way down. 
Maybe after this, someone will see the need for at least some of us to
have it all in one long page.  Maybe Rich can whisper in someone's
ear.   I guess printing it and putting it in order would work but that
means a lot of typing when a lot of times, a copy and paste will be
easier. 

Thing is, it's hard to tell what was wrong because no one knew you
missed a section, I suspect Neil did sort of figure that to be the case
tho which is why he replied with what he did.  What we do know, if you
follow the guide, you should get a bootable system.  It may not be 100%
perfect but it should boot at least.  Gentoo has some excellent docs,
especially the install part.  Unless you have some pretty odd hardware,
it should work. 

One thing I learned the hard way.  Pretty much no matter what you may
mess up, you can chroot in and go back and fix it. Just boot using
whatever media you selected, follow the mount and chroot section and
then correct whatever is wrong.  You do NOT have to start from scratch
most of the time.  You'd have to have made a boo boo in the very early
stages to end up doing that. 

I'm just hoping you can fix this easily and finish your install.  :-)

Dale

:-)  :-) 


Christopher Robinson wrote:
> I don't really want to get into a fight, but some of the replies-not Rich's- 
> are missing
> the point I am raising. To then disparage me is unworthy for a support list.
> 
> On Sat, 9/24/16, Dale  wrote:
>
>  Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
>  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
>  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 3:44 PM
>  
>  Rich Freeman wrote:
>  > On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 11:35 AM, Dale
>  
>  wrote:
>  >> Actually, he is correct.
>  > Actually, he isn't, which is hard to
>  demonstrate since everybody is top-posting.
>  
>  Actually he is and your reply
>  supports that point.  Also, I top posted
>  because he did and I posted that reasoning. 
>  I'm sure he will get around
>  to bottom
>  posting when he gets his install done.  Who knows what he
>  is
>  using at the moment. 
>  >
>  >> On Saturday,
>  September 24, 2016 9:47 AM, Neil Bothwick 
>  >> wrote:
>  >>
>  >> You need to read chapter 1 of the
>  Gentoo handbook from start to finish,
>  >> then read it again.
>  > The handbook doesn't have chapters. 
>  The step that was missed was well
>  > into
>  the process.
>  >
>  
>  If he was reading and following the install
>  guide, how did he do that
>  when he missed a
>  whole section?  Obviously, he wasn't following it
>  since
>  he missed the section.  When I did my
>  first install well over a decade
>  ago, I read
>  that thing at least three of four times to even see if I
>  wanted to try Gentoo.  During my last install
>  on my new rig a few years
>  ago, I read it
>  twice even tho it was mostly the same.  Installing
>  Gentoo
>  isn't easy but it is very hard
>  when you are not familiar enough with the
>  process to even realize you missed a whole
>  section.  If you follow the
>  guide and
>  don't miss anything, it should work.  The only major
>  set back
>  you can have is a badly configured
>  kernel that won't complete the boot
>  process.  I might add, this is also why I
>  prefer a one page guide. 
>  Start at the top
>  and work your way to the bottom.  Very little chance of
>  missing anything then. 
>  
>  Now that he knows he missed a section, maybe he
>  can chroot into it, do
>  that section and
>  finish the install.  That is unless his mobo blows out. 
>  :/
>  
>  Dale
>  
>  :-)  :-) 
>  
>  
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Rich Freeman]

On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 4:13 PM, Neil Bothwick  wrote:
>
> Call it Part 1 or Volume 1 if you prefer, the handbook itself doesn't
> give such a label to the four sections. I meant the part called
> "1. Installing Gentoo".
>

Great, where in that part does it tell you how to set a root password?

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 11:38:59 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:

> > You need to read chapter 1 of the Gentoo handbook from start to
> > finish, then read it again.  
> 
> The handbook doesn't have chapters.  The step that was missed was well
> into the process.

This is the Gentoo Handbook, an effort to centralize Gentoo/Linux
information. This handbook contains the installation instructions for an
Internet-based installation and parts about working with Gentoo and
Portage.

Contents [hide] 
1 Installing Gentoo
2 Working with Gentoo
3 Working with Portage
4 Gentoo network configuration

Call it Part 1 or Volume 1 if you prefer, the handbook itself doesn't
give such a label to the four sections. I meant the part called
"1. Installing Gentoo".


-- 
Neil Bothwick

NOTE: In order to control energy costs the light at the end
of the tunnel has been shut off until further notice...


pgpzLcCYlKtg3.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Rich Freeman]

On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 3:44 PM, Dale  wrote:
> Rich Freeman wrote:
>> On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 11:35 AM, Dale  wrote:
>>> Actually, he is correct.
>> Actually, he isn't, which is hard to demonstrate since everybody is 
>> top-posting.
>
> Actually he is and your reply supports that point.

Actually, he isn't.  I'd suggest reading chapter 1 of my email "at
least three or four times" to find the part where I pointed out his
mistake.

>
> Now that he knows he missed a section, maybe he can chroot into it, do
> that section and finish the install.  That is unless his mobo blows out.  :/
>

Certainly, but not if somebody doesn't take the time to point that out
and explain it, vs just telling him to read only "chapter 1" of the
handbook a few more times.

I do agree that he is missing a few steps but I'll go ahead and admit
that I occasionally miss a step on a Gentoo install because the
handbook is fairly verbose and it is easy to skip over the wrong part.
It would actually make sense to have a checklist to go along with it
so that it is harder to skip the wrong section.

Bottom line though is that if you aren't going to tailor your email to
the questions being asked it isn't terribly helpful.

-- 
Rich

[gentoo-user] Re: Firefox 45.2.0 segfaulting

[Grant Edwards]

On 2016-08-05, Grant Edwards  wrote:
> On 2016-07-14, Grant Edwards  wrote:
>> On 2016-07-14, Grant Edwards  wrote:
>>
>>> www-client/firefox got updated this morning to 45.2.0, and now it segfaults
>>> whenever you enter a character in the search field or the URL field.
>>
>> Same behavior with 47.0.1.
>
> And 48.0

And 45.4.

-- 
Grant Edwards   grant.b.edwardsYow! What I need is a
  at   MATURE RELATIONSHIP with a
  gmail.comFLOPPY DISK ...

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Rich Freeman]

On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 3:22 PM, Christopher Robinson
 wrote:
> Thanks again for your response. After compiling I get the prompt: live cd # ~
> I do not know what command to use to boot the install. I looked through the 
> manual
> but I did not see an answer for this. The directions seemed to apply to a very
> different install scenario.

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Bootloader#Rebooting_the_system

That is the last step after configuring the bootloader (if you don't
configure the bootloader first you won't be able to boot the system).
Are you sure you completed all the steps in the handbook?  I'm not
sure what you were compiling as there are a few places where this can
happen.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Vim puts command in when starting up

[Daniel Frey]

On 09/24/2016 12:30 PM, Daniel Frey wrote:
> On 09/23/2016 02:33 PM, William Ernesto Cárdenas Gómez wrote:
>> El Fri, 23 Sep 2016 09:24:02 -0700
>> Daniel Frey  escribió:
>>> On 09/23/2016 08:00 AM, pc0147 Sistemas Will_ecg wrote:
 El jue, 22-09-2016 a las 08:32 -0700, Daniel Frey escribió:  
> For some reason, on one box, whenever I start vim it puts
> "://" on the command line. I've looked in vimrc and
> can't see any reference to this. Hitting Enter yields "E486:
> Pattern not found
> :"
>
> I've noticed that it's been behaving strangely but I cannot figure
> out
> the cause. Last time I noticed something odd was when I commented
> out something in package.mask (with #) and saved it. Portage
> complained it
> was invalid and when I opened it again the '#' changed to 'g'.
>
> I've removed and reinstalled vim packages, no luck.
>
> Has anyone seen this?
>
> Dan
>  

 I had the same problem, the only solution I found was to add the
 vimrc for user ~.vimrc and at least set one thing. I only set the
 colorscheme and now works fine, the problem is that you should set
 it for all your users, in my case was my personal user and root.
   
>>>
>>> I tried this, with "set nowrap" in a .vimrc, and it made no
>>> difference. What I find baffling is that out of six machines only one
>>> is doing this!
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>
>> I've just test again, and I tried with some other options and only
>> works with colorscheme. I don't know why.
>>
> 
> You are right, this works. I wonder why? I'll look around for a bug report.
> 
> Dan
> 

There is a bug: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=559322

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Christopher Robinson]

I don't really want to get into a fight, but some of the replies-not Rich's- 
are missing
the point I am raising. To then disparage me is unworthy for a support list.

On Sat, 9/24/16, Dale  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 3:44 PM
 
 Rich Freeman wrote:
 > On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 11:35 AM, Dale
 
 wrote:
 >> Actually, he is correct.
 > Actually, he isn't, which is hard to
 demonstrate since everybody is top-posting.
 
 Actually he is and your reply
 supports that point.  Also, I top posted
 because he did and I posted that reasoning. 
 I'm sure he will get around
 to bottom
 posting when he gets his install done.  Who knows what he
 is
 using at the moment. 
 >
 >> On Saturday,
 September 24, 2016 9:47 AM, Neil Bothwick 
 >> wrote:
 >>
 >> You need to read chapter 1 of the
 Gentoo handbook from start to finish,
 >> then read it again.
 > The handbook doesn't have chapters. 
 The step that was missed was well
 > into
 the process.
 >
 
 If he was reading and following the install
 guide, how did he do that
 when he missed a
 whole section?  Obviously, he wasn't following it
 since
 he missed the section.  When I did my
 first install well over a decade
 ago, I read
 that thing at least three of four times to even see if I
 wanted to try Gentoo.  During my last install
 on my new rig a few years
 ago, I read it
 twice even tho it was mostly the same.  Installing
 Gentoo
 isn't easy but it is very hard
 when you are not familiar enough with the
 process to even realize you missed a whole
 section.  If you follow the
 guide and
 don't miss anything, it should work.  The only major
 set back
 you can have is a badly configured
 kernel that won't complete the boot
 process.  I might add, this is also why I
 prefer a one page guide. 
 Start at the top
 and work your way to the bottom.  Very little chance of
 missing anything then. 
 
 Now that he knows he missed a section, maybe he
 can chroot into it, do
 that section and
 finish the install.  That is unless his mobo blows out. 
 :/
 
 Dale
 
 :-)  :-) 
 
 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Dale]

Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 11:35 AM, Dale  wrote:
>> Actually, he is correct.
> Actually, he isn't, which is hard to demonstrate since everybody is 
> top-posting.

Actually he is and your reply supports that point.  Also, I top posted
because he did and I posted that reasoning.  I'm sure he will get around
to bottom posting when he gets his install done.  Who knows what he is
using at the moment. 
>
>> On Saturday, September 24, 2016 9:47 AM, Neil Bothwick 
>> wrote:
>>
>> You need to read chapter 1 of the Gentoo handbook from start to finish,
>> then read it again.
> The handbook doesn't have chapters.  The step that was missed was well
> into the process.
>

If he was reading and following the install guide, how did he do that
when he missed a whole section?  Obviously, he wasn't following it since
he missed the section.  When I did my first install well over a decade
ago, I read that thing at least three of four times to even see if I
wanted to try Gentoo.  During my last install on my new rig a few years
ago, I read it twice even tho it was mostly the same.  Installing Gentoo
isn't easy but it is very hard when you are not familiar enough with the
process to even realize you missed a whole section.  If you follow the
guide and don't miss anything, it should work.  The only major set back
you can have is a badly configured kernel that won't complete the boot
process.  I might add, this is also why I prefer a one page guide. 
Start at the top and work your way to the bottom.  Very little chance of
missing anything then. 

Now that he knows he missed a section, maybe he can chroot into it, do
that section and finish the install.  That is unless his mobo blows out.  :/

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Vim puts command in when starting up

[Daniel Frey]

On 09/23/2016 02:33 PM, William Ernesto Cárdenas Gómez wrote:
> El Fri, 23 Sep 2016 09:24:02 -0700
> Daniel Frey  escribió:
>> On 09/23/2016 08:00 AM, pc0147 Sistemas Will_ecg wrote:
>>> El jue, 22-09-2016 a las 08:32 -0700, Daniel Frey escribió:  
 For some reason, on one box, whenever I start vim it puts
 "://" on the command line. I've looked in vimrc and
 can't see any reference to this. Hitting Enter yields "E486:
 Pattern not found
 :"

 I've noticed that it's been behaving strangely but I cannot figure
 out
 the cause. Last time I noticed something odd was when I commented
 out something in package.mask (with #) and saved it. Portage
 complained it
 was invalid and when I opened it again the '#' changed to 'g'.

 I've removed and reinstalled vim packages, no luck.

 Has anyone seen this?

 Dan
  
>>>
>>> I had the same problem, the only solution I found was to add the
>>> vimrc for user ~.vimrc and at least set one thing. I only set the
>>> colorscheme and now works fine, the problem is that you should set
>>> it for all your users, in my case was my personal user and root.
>>>   
>>
>> I tried this, with "set nowrap" in a .vimrc, and it made no
>> difference. What I find baffling is that out of six machines only one
>> is doing this!
>>
>> Dan
>>
> 
> I've just test again, and I tried with some other options and only
> works with colorscheme. I don't know why.
> 

You are right, this works. I wonder why? I'll look around for a bug report.

Dan

[gentoo-user] Re: Smokeping: images broken?

[Daniel Frey]

On 09/24/2016 08:25 AM, Daniel Frey wrote:
> Are there any smokeping users?
> 
> I did an update to apache, mod_perl, and smokeping, having to unmask
> things so they build correctly... and now all graphs are broken links.
> 
> I had to keyword mod_perl and smokeping to get everything to build properly.
> 
> Has anyone experienced this and know how to fix it?
> 
> Dan
> 

Now that I had some time to look into this, I discovered apache was
denying access to a Alias'ed directory.

I had to edit /etc/apache2/modules.d/79_smokeping.conf and change:

Order deny,allow
Deny from all
Allow from 127.0.0.1

to

Require ip 127.0.0.1
Require ip 

...and now it works.

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Christopher Robinson]

Thanks again for your response. After compiling I get the prompt: live cd # ~
I do not know what command to use to boot the install. I looked through the 
manual
but I did not see an answer for this. The directions seemed to apply to a very
different install scenario.

PS My motherboard or whatever was preventing the computer from powering on 
resolved itself as as mysteriously as it occurred.

On Sat, 9/24/16, Rich Freeman  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 1:19 PM
 
 On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at
 12:15 PM, Christopher Robinson
 
 wrote:
 >
 > Thank you
 for at least responding to my question. I did try creating a
 password in root,
 > but I could not boot
 from there.
 
 If it isn't
 booting then passwords are the least of your problems. 
 It
 probably is a bootloader problem (EFI or
 grub).  But, I'm not sure
 what "I
 could not boot" actually means.  Do you get an error
 message?
 What state does the system end up
 in?
 
 --
 Rich
 
 

Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird 45.3.0 won't send messages

[Mick]

On Saturday 24 Sep 2016 07:13:15 Daniel Frey wrote:
> On 09/24/2016 03:53 AM, Mick wrote:
> > On Saturday 24 Sep 2016 13:46:04 Stanislav Ch. Nikolov wrote:
> >> On 09/24/2016 01:21 PM, Mick wrote:
> >>> Has something changed on T'bird and this is why it stopped sending
> >>> messages? Clicking on send just sits there with no sign that the client
> >>> is trying to connect to the server.
> >>> 
> >>> Have you noticed the same?
> >> 
> >> If you see this message, then the answer is no :P
> >> 
> >> Stanislav
> > 
> > Thanks, this means something may have changed on Gmail and my T'bird
> > settings are not working anymore.
> 
> I was having problems a while back until I switched to OAuth2 for the
> GMail servers. The thing is you have to set OAuth2 separately for
> incoming *and* outgoing mail.
> 
> Dan

Thanks Dan, the user assured me they had enabled 'unsafe client applications' 
or some such setting on the web interface of their Google/Gmail account 
security settings, which means that it should also be able to do vanilla 
IMAP4/SMTP with 'Normal Password'.  I'll ask them to check again in case 
Google has changed this.  However, T'bird can still received messages in the 
Inbox, it is the SMTP which is not working.  :-/

Either way, I also tried SSL/TLS with OAuth2 and it is still not working.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Rich Freeman]

On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 12:15 PM, Christopher Robinson
 wrote:
>
> Thank you for at least responding to my question. I did try creating a 
> password in root,
> but I could not boot from there.

If it isn't booting then passwords are the least of your problems.  It
probably is a bootloader problem (EFI or grub).  But, I'm not sure
what "I could not boot" actually means.  Do you get an error message?
What state does the system end up in?

--
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Recommend a good replacement for XFCE?

[Sebastián Pedersen]

On 24-09-2016 01:26 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:

On 2016-09-24, waltd...@waltdnes.org  wrote:

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 11:45:26PM +, Grant Edwards wrote


Would anybody care to make a recommendation?


How about ditching "Desktop Environment" altogether and using a
"Window Manager" instead?


That's probably a good idea: rather than starting with a DE and
removing stuff, start with a good window manager and add to that if
needed.


I use ICEWM.  It has to be configured with a text editor, but you can
then set it and forget it.


[...]


  * some sort of task-bar (auto-hide required)

  * some sort toolbar OK (as long as it's auto-hide)


  Got it all.  But you have to edit the config file with a text
  editor.


That's perfectly fine.

I'll take a look at icewm.


I don't think it's a XFCE replacement, but since it has been mencioned 
to take a WM as starting point, I mencion that I've been usin I3 WM and 
I'm quit happy about it.

https://i3wm.org/

Just a comment, in case it help in any way.

Cheers.
Sebas

[gentoo-user] Re: Recommend a good replacement for XFCE?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2016-09-24, waltd...@waltdnes.org  wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 11:45:26PM +, Grant Edwards wrote
>
>> Would anybody care to make a recommendation?
>
> How about ditching "Desktop Environment" altogether and using a
> "Window Manager" instead?

That's probably a good idea: rather than starting with a DE and
removing stuff, start with a good window manager and add to that if
needed.

> I use ICEWM.  It has to be configured with a text editor, but you can
> then set it and forget it.

[...]

>>   * some sort of task-bar (auto-hide required)
>> 
>>   * some sort toolbar OK (as long as it's auto-hide)
>
>   Got it all.  But you have to edit the config file with a text
>   editor.

That's perfectly fine.

I'll take a look at icewm.

-- 
Grant

[gentoo-user] Re: Recommend a good replacement for XFCE?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2016-09-24, David Haller  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> On Fri, 23 Sep 2016, Grant Edwards wrote:
>>Would anybody care to make a recommendation?
>
> Ever checked out WindowMaker (x11-wm/windowmaker)? The default config
> is quite clunky though, but there's many themes and stuff.

I think I tried once upon a time (back when I was looking for a fvwm
replacement and ended up switching to XFCE).

> But I'm not sure what you mean by root-window menu / task-bar /
> toolbar.

You got it right.

>>I don't want any storage auto-mounter, network manager, modem manager,
>>or any of that sort of thing.  Anything with "manager" in the name is
>>probably right out.
>
> Neither do I :) As well as most anything with "Kit".

Back in the SunOS/Solaris days, it was anything ending in "tool".

> But no fear, you need to do that only once, I did that in IIRC 2002 or
> so with WMaker 0.65 and never touched that config ever again. I think
> there was once some feature renamed or so, but you get that with
> xemacs/mutt/tin as well.
>
> So, IMO it's should be worth a look. But _do_ have a look through the
> config-tool at the options (like the focus and moving stuff) and
> ignore the UI-look, that can be tuned a lot, the default is rather
> boring (but functional).

Thanks, I'll add WindowMaker to the list.

> Apart from that: LXDE comes to mind.

That too.

-- 
Grant

[gentoo-user] Re: Recommend a good replacement for XFCE?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2016-09-24, Alecks Gates  wrote:
> On 09/23/2016 06:45 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:

>> I've been running XFCE for many, many years, and I was perfectly happy
>> with it until 4.11 came out.  Support for multiple displays[1] was
>> broken in xfdesktop by a commit made in 2013. It's been broken ever
>> since, and there doesn't appear to be any intention of fixing it.

> Have you considered MATE?

Yep.  I've been doing some googling/reading, and LXDE and MATE look
like the two leading contenders.

I'm going to try LXDE first.  MATE's gnome heritage set off some
warning bells -- which I should probably ignore, since MATE's 'atril'
pdf viewer is what rescued me from evince's gnome-related problems.

-- 
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Christopher Robinson]

Rich,

Thank you for at least responding to my question. I did try creating a password 
in root,
but I could not boot from there.  I will check out the other manual suggestion. 
I had tried Systemrescue CD earlier, but it displayed in a tiny screen 
resolution,
unreadable even with a magnifying lens. If anyone thinks of suggesting Knoppix,
the main download site was not working and I did not have the patience to try 
all the
other mirrors. 
I do apologize for venting my frustration, but I have been trying to manage a 
pretty
awful situation for over a month, and this morning my motherboard died!
As the Kinks sang: I'm in a state of confusion.


On Sat, 9/24/16, Rich Freeman  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 11:18 AM
 
 On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at
 8:13 AM, Christopher Robinson
 
 wrote:
 > After the files compile on the
 Minimal Install CD, I get a command line
 > prompt.
 > I assume I
 need to enter a username and then a password to boot the
 install,
 > but I have not succeeded in
 creating those. What should I do?
 >
 
 The step you missed is this
 one:
 https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/System#Root_password
 
 If you're at the command
 prompt inside the chroot then you're already
 logged in as root. So, you just type
 "passwd" and enter a new root
 password.  root is your username.  You can
 create additional users
 using useradd:
 
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Finalizing#Adding_a_user_for_daily_use
 
 > Also, I read that it is possible to
 install Gentoo from the Live DVD.
 > How
 do I do that?
 
 The
 same way as from the minimal CD.  Just open a terminal and
 follow
 the handbook.
 
 -- 
 Rich
 
 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Rich Freeman]

On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 11:35 AM, Dale  wrote:
>
> Actually, he is correct.

Actually, he isn't, which is hard to demonstrate since everybody is top-posting.

>
> On Saturday, September 24, 2016 9:47 AM, Neil Bothwick 
> wrote:
>
> You need to read chapter 1 of the Gentoo handbook from start to finish,
> then read it again.

The handbook doesn't have chapters.  The step that was missed was well
into the process.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Dale]

Top posting since he started it.  ;-) 

Actually, he is correct.  If you follow the installation guide, you will
end up with a installed OS and it will tell you when it is time to
reboot into the system you just installed.  It also tells you how to add
a user to the system.  One thing Gentoo is well known for and has been
for ages, excellent install docs. 

Admittedly, it's been a while since I did a install so I went and looked
at the docs to be sure.  Yep, everything is there and exactly where it
should be.  I do wish it had the one page layout like it used to tho. 

So, you need to read and follow the docs.  If you do that, you will end
up with a install just like everyone else who follows them.  Example. 
How to use a DVD to install from:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Media

I suspect a lot of us use sysrescuecd since it is Gentoo based. 

http://www.system-rescue-cd.org/SystemRescueCd_Homepage

Mine is on a USB stick. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 



Christopher Robinson wrote:
> Honestly, your reply is not helpful. I have read through the the
> handbook and the directions there
> do not match the screen results. I take offense at your arrogant tone
> in reply to a beginners request for help.
> While those with experience may find my request naive, I went to the
> list for suggestions beyond the handbook.
> Also, you confuse the two parts of my question in your smackdown.
> Sorry for the annoyance and possible
> violation of list protocol, but I expected a bit more support.
>
>
> On Saturday, September 24, 2016 9:47 AM, Neil Bothwick
>  wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 12:13:00 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:
>
>
> > Also, I read that it is possible to install Gentoo from the Live
> > DVD.How do I do that?
>
>
> You need to read chapter 1 of the Gentoo handbook from start to finish,
> then read it again. When you understand what is going on, you then boot
> from the live DVD and follow the installation instructions fro the
> handbook.
>
>
> -- 
> Neil Bothwick
>
> "Meow"   "Woof" Jeez, it's really raining today.
>

[gentoo-user] New Install

[Joachim Gwoke]

There's always this
http://www.tecmint.com/gentoo-linux-installation-guide/ with side by side
reference to the Gentoo handbook.

Regards
Joachim

On 24 Sep 2016 6:19 p.m., "Rich Freeman"  wrote:

On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 8:13 AM, Christopher Robinson
 wrote:
> After the files compile on the Minimal Install CD, I get a command line
> prompt.
> I assume I need to enter a username and then a password to boot the
install,
> but I have not succeeded in creating those. What should I do?
>

The step you missed is this one:
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/
System#Root_password

If you're at the command prompt inside the chroot then you're already
logged in as root. So, you just type "passwd" and enter a new root
password.  root is your username.  You can create additional users
using useradd:
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/
Finalizing#Adding_a_user_for_daily_use

> Also, I read that it is possible to install Gentoo from the Live DVD.
> How do I do that?

The same way as from the minimal CD.  Just open a terminal and follow
the handbook.

--
Rich

[gentoo-user] Smokeping: images broken?

[Daniel Frey]

Are there any smokeping users?

I did an update to apache, mod_perl, and smokeping, having to unmask
things so they build correctly... and now all graphs are broken links.

I had to keyword mod_perl and smokeping to get everything to build properly.

Has anyone experienced this and know how to fix it?

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Rich Freeman]

On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 8:13 AM, Christopher Robinson
 wrote:
> After the files compile on the Minimal Install CD, I get a command line
> prompt.
> I assume I need to enter a username and then a password to boot the install,
> but I have not succeeded in creating those. What should I do?
>

The step you missed is this one:
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/System#Root_password

If you're at the command prompt inside the chroot then you're already
logged in as root. So, you just type "passwd" and enter a new root
password.  root is your username.  You can create additional users
using useradd:
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Finalizing#Adding_a_user_for_daily_use

> Also, I read that it is possible to install Gentoo from the Live DVD.
> How do I do that?

The same way as from the minimal CD.  Just open a terminal and follow
the handbook.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Christopher Robinson]

Honestly, your reply is not helpful. I have read through the the handbook and 
the directions there 
do not match the screen results. I take offense at your arrogant tone in reply 
to a beginners request for help.While those with experience may find my request 
naive, I went to the list for suggestions beyond the handbook.Also, you confuse 
the two parts of my question in your smackdown. Sorry for the annoyance and 
possibleviolation of list protocol, but I expected a bit more support.
 

On Saturday, September 24, 2016 9:47 AM, Neil Bothwick  
wrote:
 

 On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 12:13:00 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:

> Also, I read that it is possible to install Gentoo from the Live
> DVD.How do I do that?

You need to read chapter 1 of the Gentoo handbook from start to finish,
then read it again. When you understand what is going on, you then boot
from the live DVD and follow the installation instructions fro the
handbook.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

"Meow"   "Woof"     Jeez, it's really raining today.

   

Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird 45.3.0 won't send messages

[Daniel Frey]

On 09/24/2016 03:53 AM, Mick wrote:
> On Saturday 24 Sep 2016 13:46:04 Stanislav Ch. Nikolov wrote:
>> On 09/24/2016 01:21 PM, Mick wrote:
>>> Has something changed on T'bird and this is why it stopped sending
>>> messages? Clicking on send just sits there with no sign that the client
>>> is trying to connect to the server.
>>>
>>> Have you noticed the same?
>>
>> If you see this message, then the answer is no :P
>>
>> Stanislav
> 
> Thanks, this means something may have changed on Gmail and my T'bird settings 
> are not working anymore.
> 

I was having problems a while back until I switched to OAuth2 for the
GMail servers. The thing is you have to set OAuth2 separately for
incoming *and* outgoing mail.

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 12:13:00 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:

> Also, I read that it is possible to install Gentoo from the Live
> DVD.How do I do that?

You need to read chapter 1 of the Gentoo handbook from start to finish,
then read it again. When you understand what is going on, you then boot
from the live DVD and follow the installation instructions fro the
handbook.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

"Meow"   "Woof" Jeez, it's really raining today.


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[gentoo-user] New Install

[Christopher Robinson]

After the files compile on the Minimal Install CD, I get a command line 
prompt.I assume I need to enter a username and then a password to boot the 
install,but I have not succeeded in creating those. What should I do?
Also, I read that it is possible to install Gentoo from the Live DVD.How do I 
do that?

Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird 45.3.0 won't send messages

[Mick]

On Saturday 24 Sep 2016 13:46:04 Stanislav Ch. Nikolov wrote:
> On 09/24/2016 01:21 PM, Mick wrote:
> > Has something changed on T'bird and this is why it stopped sending
> > messages? Clicking on send just sits there with no sign that the client
> > is trying to connect to the server.
> > 
> > Have you noticed the same?
> 
> If you see this message, then the answer is no :P
> 
> Stanislav

Thanks, this means something may have changed on Gmail and my T'bird settings 
are not working anymore.

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird 45.3.0 won't send messages

[Stanislav Ch. Nikolov]

On 09/24/2016 01:21 PM, Mick wrote:
> Has something changed on T'bird and this is why it stopped sending messages?  
> Clicking on send just sits there with no sign that the client is trying to 
> connect to the server.
> 
> Have you noticed the same?
> 

If you see this message, then the answer is no :P

Stanislav



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[gentoo-user] Thunderbird 45.3.0 won't send messages

[Mick]

Has something changed on T'bird and this is why it stopped sending messages?  
Clicking on send just sits there with no sign that the client is trying to 
connect to the server.

Have you noticed the same?
-- 
Regards,
Mick

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] Madly flickering display

[Peter Humphrey]

On Friday 23 Sep 2016 22:30:55 David Haller wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On Fri, 23 Sep 2016, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> >I've broken this out from the thread it appeared in, Problems with
> >Xinerama I found from Xorg.0.log that X11 wasn't finding an evdev
> >module, even though I had INPUT_DEVICES="evdev" in make.conf. So I added
> >USE=evdev to dev- qt/qtgui* and that created the module, even though
> >kensington@gentoo said it had nothing to do with it.
> 
> Do you have x11-drivers/xf86-input-evdev installed?
> 
> # equery files  x11-drivers/xf86-input-evdev |grep '\.so'
> /usr/lib64/xorg/modules/input/evdev_drv.so
> 
> That's the 'evdev' module that your X doesn't find.

I have now, since adding that USE flag. I'll have to remove it and recompile 
to complete the check.

-- 
Rgds
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] Recommend a good replacement for XFCE?

[Carlos Hendson]

On Sat, 2016-09-24 at 01:52 -0400, waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 11:45:26PM +, Grant Edwards wrote
> 
> > Would anybody care to make a recommendation?
> 
>   How about ditching "Desktop Environment" altogether and using a
> "Window Manager" instead?  I use ICEWM.  It has to be configured with
> a
> text editor, but you can then set it and forget it.

If using a Window Manager fits, awesome is worth a mention.

https://awesomewm.org/

* Very stable, fast and small codebase and footprint;
* First window manager using asynchronous XCB library instead of the
old synchronous Xlib: make awesome less subject to latency than many
window managers;
* Very well documented source code and API;
* No mouse needed: everything can be performed with keyboard;
* Real multihead support (XRandR, Xinerama or Zaphod mode) with per
screen desktops (tags);
* Implement many Freedesktop standards: EWMH, XDG Base Directory,
XEmbed, Desktop Notification, System Tray;
* Doesn't distinguish between layers: there is no floating or tiled
layer;
* Use tags instead of workspaces: allow to place clients on several
tags, and display several tags at the same time;
* A lot of Lua extensions to add features: dynamic tagging, widget
feeding, tabs, layouts;
* D-Bus support;
And more.

Regards,
Carlos