Re: [gentoo-user] Re: has anyone tried KDE5?
Excerpts from Michael Palimaka's message of 2014-10-04 19:37:04 +0200: On 10/04/2014 11:26 PM, behrouz khosravi wrote: Hello everyone. I was wondering if anyone has tried KDE5? Do you know when it's going to be placed in the main tree? thanks Hi, The KDE release structure has evolved[1], decoupling the release cycle of the Platform, Workspace, and Applications. This means that there is no longer a single Software Compilation in the same way there was with KDE 4. We (Gentoo KDE team) have not yet made a decision as to when the Plasma 5 Workspace will be pushed to the main tree. I've been using it on a daily basis for about six months, and consider the next release (5.1.0) to be a good candidate for the main tree. The underlying Platform (KDE Frameworks 5) upon which Plasma 5 is built is expected in the main tree in about a week, after the 5.3.0 release. Best regards, Michael [1]: https://dot.kde.org/2013/09/04/kde-release-structure-evolves I'd love to try KDE 5. So far I've been able to install Frameworks from the KDE overlay. I then tried to install the workspace, but it seems that it can't coexist with kde 4 (I get blockers from several kde 4 packages when trying to install). Is this correct, or am I doing something wrong? I use paludis as package manager, so maybe it behaves differently from portage and this is the reason for the blockers. I remember that when KDE 4 was released I used to run the live version, rebuilding everything every day. It was a very pleasant experience being able to witness how the programs improved, day after day. But I could do that because I could have both KDE 4 and KDE 3 installed at the same time: those days when a program I needed broke horribly in the KDE 4 live version, I could go on working using the KDE 3 version. Currently, if indeed KDE 4 and KDE 5 workspace can't be installed at the same time, I'll have to wait before trying the latter. Stefano
[gentoo-user] Re: has anyone tried KDE5?
On 10/12/2014 11:11 PM, Stefano Crocco wrote: Excerpts from Michael Palimaka's message of 2014-10-04 19:37:04 +0200: On 10/04/2014 11:26 PM, behrouz khosravi wrote: Hello everyone. I was wondering if anyone has tried KDE5? Do you know when it's going to be placed in the main tree? thanks Hi, The KDE release structure has evolved[1], decoupling the release cycle of the Platform, Workspace, and Applications. This means that there is no longer a single Software Compilation in the same way there was with KDE 4. We (Gentoo KDE team) have not yet made a decision as to when the Plasma 5 Workspace will be pushed to the main tree. I've been using it on a daily basis for about six months, and consider the next release (5.1.0) to be a good candidate for the main tree. The underlying Platform (KDE Frameworks 5) upon which Plasma 5 is built is expected in the main tree in about a week, after the 5.3.0 release. Best regards, Michael [1]: https://dot.kde.org/2013/09/04/kde-release-structure-evolves I'd love to try KDE 5. So far I've been able to install Frameworks from the KDE overlay. I then tried to install the workspace, but it seems that it can't coexist with kde 4 (I get blockers from several kde 4 packages when trying to install). Is this correct, or am I doing something wrong? I use paludis as package manager, so maybe it behaves differently from portage and this is the reason for the blockers. Unfortunately Plasma 5 and KDE 4 Workspaces cannot coexist. This is an upstream decision.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: has anyone tried KDE5?
Excerpts from Michael Palimaka's message of 2014-10-12 17:20:20 +0200: I'd love to try KDE 5. So far I've been able to install Frameworks from the KDE overlay. I then tried to install the workspace, but it seems that it can't coexist with kde 4 (I get blockers from several kde 4 packages when trying to install). Is this correct, or am I doing something wrong? I use paludis as package manager, so maybe it behaves differently from portage and this is the reason for the blockers. Unfortunately Plasma 5 and KDE 4 Workspaces cannot coexist. This is an upstream decision. That's a pity. It seems I'll have to wait. Thanks for the information. Stefano
[gentoo-user] Re: has anyone tried KDE5?
On 10/09/2014 04:38 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am 08.10.2014 um 11:56 schrieb Michael Palimaka: On 10/08/2014 07:31 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: so after spending hours fighting to upgrade boost, I finally got to the point were portage let me emerge kde-framework. I went to bed. I woke up 2h later... only 9 packages were installed, the rest skipped because of wrong gcc. Crap like that should be told right at the start. This is carryover from KDE 4. In all packages except kdelibs, the GCC check was in pkg_setup instead of pkg_pretend to save time during dependency resolution (think emerging 300 KDE packages at once). I did some quick tests and I'm not convinced that the small time saving justifies bending the rules and causing the sort of issue you ran into. luckily, I did have gcc 4.8 installed, until now I just did not have a reason to switch. Afterwards emerging the rest was a non-issue. emerge @preserved-rebuild is not happy, of course because of kactivities-4 and -5 not liking each other.. let them be unhappy... You can have both at the same time by merging kactivities:4 with minimal USE flag. That will be handled automatically by a new profile in due course.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: has anyone tried KDE5?
Am 09.10.2014 um 09:56 schrieb Michael Palimaka: On 10/09/2014 04:38 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am 08.10.2014 um 11:56 schrieb Michael Palimaka: On 10/08/2014 07:31 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: so after spending hours fighting to upgrade boost, I finally got to the point were portage let me emerge kde-framework. I went to bed. I woke up 2h later... only 9 packages were installed, the rest skipped because of wrong gcc. Crap like that should be told right at the start. This is carryover from KDE 4. In all packages except kdelibs, the GCC check was in pkg_setup instead of pkg_pretend to save time during dependency resolution (think emerging 300 KDE packages at once). I did some quick tests and I'm not convinced that the small time saving justifies bending the rules and causing the sort of issue you ran into. luckily, I did have gcc 4.8 installed, until now I just did not have a reason to switch. Afterwards emerging the rest was a non-issue. emerge @preserved-rebuild is not happy, of course because of kactivities-4 and -5 not liking each other.. let them be unhappy... You can have both at the same time by merging kactivities:4 with minimal USE flag. That will be handled automatically by a new profile in due course. ah, thanks!
[gentoo-user] Re: has anyone tried KDE5?
On 10/08/2014 07:31 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: so after spending hours fighting to upgrade boost, I finally got to the point were portage let me emerge kde-framework. I went to bed. I woke up 2h later... only 9 packages were installed, the rest skipped because of wrong gcc. Crap like that should be told right at the start. This is carryover from KDE 4. In all packages except kdelibs, the GCC check was in pkg_setup instead of pkg_pretend to save time during dependency resolution (think emerging 300 KDE packages at once). I did some quick tests and I'm not convinced that the small time saving justifies bending the rules and causing the sort of issue you ran into.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: has anyone tried KDE5?
Am 08.10.2014 um 11:56 schrieb Michael Palimaka: On 10/08/2014 07:31 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: so after spending hours fighting to upgrade boost, I finally got to the point were portage let me emerge kde-framework. I went to bed. I woke up 2h later... only 9 packages were installed, the rest skipped because of wrong gcc. Crap like that should be told right at the start. This is carryover from KDE 4. In all packages except kdelibs, the GCC check was in pkg_setup instead of pkg_pretend to save time during dependency resolution (think emerging 300 KDE packages at once). I did some quick tests and I'm not convinced that the small time saving justifies bending the rules and causing the sort of issue you ran into. luckily, I did have gcc 4.8 installed, until now I just did not have a reason to switch. Afterwards emerging the rest was a non-issue. emerge @preserved-rebuild is not happy, of course because of kactivities-4 and -5 not liking each other.. let them be unhappy...
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: has anyone tried KDE5?
Am Montag, 6. Oktober 2014, 22:47:51 schrieb Mick: On Monday 06 Oct 2014 16:44:57 Jens Reinemuth wrote: And to go deeper: Why don't they store documents in a database, that is better optimized for documents... MongoDB? CouchDB? Instead they use this shitty mixture of MySQL and Virtuoso!? WTF? No, no, no! What they should do is use Microsoft's Sharepoint server solution, which stores documents in the MS SQL as binary blobs ... millions of corporate users can't be wrong! O_o Great idea... ;-) I really can't understand why anyone would use a database as file-storage!? But to be real: Why not use anything for akonadi/nepomuk that ist really optimized for the purpose... Why not Solr or Elasticsearch... I mean: Nobody really ever uses that crap for anything else than doing fulltext-search! As far as i remember, even that purpose wasn't really very well done! Elasticsearch with some indexers that push a plaintextversion of nearly every document-format into the index and you will enjoy searches in millions of documents in nearly no time... Using some tags and categories, you will have the perfect semantic experience! jens reinemuth leonhard-eckel-siedlung 4a d-67483 edesheim mobil: +49.176.63613420 mail: j...@reinemuth.info jabber: j...@jabber.reinemuth.info -- scribline, n.: The blank area on the back of credit cards where one's signature goes. -- Sniglets, Rich Hall Friends signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
[gentoo-user] Re: has anyone tried KDE5?
On 10/07/2014 06:41 PM, Pavel Volkov wrote: On Saturday, October 4, 2014 9:37:04 PM MSK, Michael Palimaka wrote: The KDE release structure has evolved[1], decoupling the release cycle of the Platform, Workspace, and Applications. This means that there is no longer a single Software Compilation in the same way there was with KDE 4. We (Gentoo KDE team) have not yet made a decision as to when the Plasma 5 Workspace will be pushed to the main tree. I've been using it on a daily basis for about six months, and consider the next release (5.1.0) to be a good candidate for the main tree. The underlying Platform (KDE Frameworks 5) upon which Plasma 5 is built is expected in the main tree in about a week, after the 5.3.0 release. I think KDE Application 5 haven't been released yet (at least I don't remember seeing the news). Are you going to package old applications with Frameworks 5 and Plasma 5? The first Applications 5 release (currently versioned 14.12) is expected in late December. KDE 4 applications work fine in a Plasma 5 environment and we'll continue to ship them for the foreseeable future.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: has anyone tried KDE5?
Am 06.10.2014 um 11:57 schrieb Michael Palimaka: On 10/06/2014 05:34 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am 04.10.2014 um 19:37 schrieb Michael Palimaka: On 10/04/2014 11:26 PM, behrouz khosravi wrote: Hello everyone. I was wondering if anyone has tried KDE5? Do you know when it's going to be placed in the main tree? thanks Hi, The KDE release structure has evolved[1], decoupling the release cycle of the Platform, Workspace, and Applications. This means that there is no longer a single Software Compilation in the same way there was with KDE 4. We (Gentoo KDE team) have not yet made a decision as to when the Plasma 5 Workspace will be pushed to the main tree. I've been using it on a daily basis for about six months, and consider the next release (5.1.0) to be a good candidate for the main tree. The underlying Platform (KDE Frameworks 5) upon which Plasma 5 is built is expected in the main tree in about a week, after the 5.3.0 release. Best regards, Michael [1]: https://dot.kde.org/2013/09/04/kde-release-structure-evolves ok, at the moment you can't even install this mess: merge: there are no ebuilds built with USE flags to satisfy =dev-qt/qtwebkit-5.3.2:5[debug=,widgets]. !!! One of the following packages is required to complete your request: - dev-qt/qtwebkit-5.3.2-r1::gentoo (Missing IUSE: widgets) (dependency required by dev-qt/qtquick1-5.3.2 [ebuild]) (dependency required by kde-frameworks/plasma-5.2.0::kde [ebuild]) (dependency required by @kde-frameworks-5.2 [argument]) yepp, three ebuilds depending on qtwebkit with the widgets useflag - that it doesn't even have. Oh joy. And that after 2h+ dealing with other useflag related shenanigans. btw from the changelog: 25 Sep 2014; Michael Palimaka kensing...@gentoo.org metadata.xml: Remove unused USE flag. that unused useflag wasn't 'widgets' by chance? ^^ Thanks for testing. It appears I missed a couple of consumers (I did check!) and it's fixed now. What other USE flag issues did you encounter? so after spending hours fighting to upgrade boost, I finally got to the point were portage let me emerge kde-framework. I went to bed. I woke up 2h later... only 9 packages were installed, the rest skipped because of wrong gcc. Crap like that should be told right at the start.
[gentoo-user] Re: has anyone tried KDE5?
On 10/06/2014 05:34 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am 04.10.2014 um 19:37 schrieb Michael Palimaka: On 10/04/2014 11:26 PM, behrouz khosravi wrote: Hello everyone. I was wondering if anyone has tried KDE5? Do you know when it's going to be placed in the main tree? thanks Hi, The KDE release structure has evolved[1], decoupling the release cycle of the Platform, Workspace, and Applications. This means that there is no longer a single Software Compilation in the same way there was with KDE 4. We (Gentoo KDE team) have not yet made a decision as to when the Plasma 5 Workspace will be pushed to the main tree. I've been using it on a daily basis for about six months, and consider the next release (5.1.0) to be a good candidate for the main tree. The underlying Platform (KDE Frameworks 5) upon which Plasma 5 is built is expected in the main tree in about a week, after the 5.3.0 release. Best regards, Michael [1]: https://dot.kde.org/2013/09/04/kde-release-structure-evolves ok, at the moment you can't even install this mess: merge: there are no ebuilds built with USE flags to satisfy =dev-qt/qtwebkit-5.3.2:5[debug=,widgets]. !!! One of the following packages is required to complete your request: - dev-qt/qtwebkit-5.3.2-r1::gentoo (Missing IUSE: widgets) (dependency required by dev-qt/qtquick1-5.3.2 [ebuild]) (dependency required by kde-frameworks/plasma-5.2.0::kde [ebuild]) (dependency required by @kde-frameworks-5.2 [argument]) yepp, three ebuilds depending on qtwebkit with the widgets useflag - that it doesn't even have. Oh joy. And that after 2h+ dealing with other useflag related shenanigans. btw from the changelog: 25 Sep 2014; Michael Palimaka kensing...@gentoo.org metadata.xml: Remove unused USE flag. that unused useflag wasn't 'widgets' by chance? ^^ Thanks for testing. It appears I missed a couple of consumers (I did check!) and it's fixed now. What other USE flag issues did you encounter?
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: has anyone tried KDE5?
Am Sonntag, 5. Oktober 2014, 18:59:31 schrieb Volker Armin Hemmann: Am 05.10.2014 um 18:27 schrieb Alan McKinnon: On 05/10/2014 17:50, Michael Palimaka wrote:ystem all that much. My real beef is with akonadi and kdepim. I could never get the damn thing to actually work or to tell me what it was doing in a manner I could understand. The last straw was around KDE-4.4 when the importer managed to destroy my entire mail store and leave me with nothing, so I switched to claws and several years later switched again to Thunderbird. or even better: akonadi eating 10 years and 100 000+ archived emails. But the gains were there - search became slower, if it worked at all and all filters broke - several times. I can't really count how many times i simply deleted all the .config/akonadi and .local/akonadi stuff - and let akonadi regenerate it, simply because i deeply believed in the whole crap getting better! It never got better... Currently i can live with all that stuff, simply by disabling all nepomuk- and akonadi-stuff and waiting for it to show all my mails again... Funny: My wife has a second account with exactly the same settings and is deeply annoyed by the permanent popups telling her that the balloo-indexer has closed... Indeed she has disabled it!!! So i have to kill that shit every time! Most annoying story in the last time: KdePIM 4.10 simply stopped working with my private Courier-IMAP-Server, telling everyone, that courier has a bug... Ok, maybe, but it worked since every Version and just stopped because one ore more developers simply decided to do things right!!! No Problem in Gentoo, simply mask and downgrade kdepim-meta... I had more problems at work with Kubuntu! With KDE4.10.1 everything works as expected... But this is just a gnome-like-behavior... The developers simply don't really care what the users want or need... i really never heard of anybody saying: Oh that search stuff is cool! I use it regularily! And to go deeper: Why don't they store documents in a database, that is better optimized for documents... MongoDB? CouchDB? Instead they use this shitty mixture of MySQL and Virtuoso!? WTF? -- jens reinemuth leonhard-eckel-siedlung 4 d-67483 edesheim mobil: +49.(0)176.63613420 mail: j...@reinemuth.info jabber: j...@jabber.reinemuth.info -- Stewie Griffin: So, what do you think of this Music Television?
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: has anyone tried KDE5?
Am 06.10.2014 um 11:57 schrieb Michael Palimaka: On 10/06/2014 05:34 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am 04.10.2014 um 19:37 schrieb Michael Palimaka: On 10/04/2014 11:26 PM, behrouz khosravi wrote: Hello everyone. I was wondering if anyone has tried KDE5? Do you know when it's going to be placed in the main tree? thanks Hi, The KDE release structure has evolved[1], decoupling the release cycle of the Platform, Workspace, and Applications. This means that there is no longer a single Software Compilation in the same way there was with KDE 4. We (Gentoo KDE team) have not yet made a decision as to when the Plasma 5 Workspace will be pushed to the main tree. I've been using it on a daily basis for about six months, and consider the next release (5.1.0) to be a good candidate for the main tree. The underlying Platform (KDE Frameworks 5) upon which Plasma 5 is built is expected in the main tree in about a week, after the 5.3.0 release. Best regards, Michael [1]: https://dot.kde.org/2013/09/04/kde-release-structure-evolves ok, at the moment you can't even install this mess: merge: there are no ebuilds built with USE flags to satisfy =dev-qt/qtwebkit-5.3.2:5[debug=,widgets]. !!! One of the following packages is required to complete your request: - dev-qt/qtwebkit-5.3.2-r1::gentoo (Missing IUSE: widgets) (dependency required by dev-qt/qtquick1-5.3.2 [ebuild]) (dependency required by kde-frameworks/plasma-5.2.0::kde [ebuild]) (dependency required by @kde-frameworks-5.2 [argument]) yepp, three ebuilds depending on qtwebkit with the widgets useflag - that it doesn't even have. Oh joy. And that after 2h+ dealing with other useflag related shenanigans. btw from the changelog: 25 Sep 2014; Michael Palimaka kensing...@gentoo.org metadata.xml: Remove unused USE flag. that unused useflag wasn't 'widgets' by chance? ^^ Thanks for testing. It appears I missed a couple of consumers (I did check!) and it's fixed now. What other USE flag issues did you encounter? gles2 and kms was fun. It was easy - but emerge --ask takes so much time that a lot of time was wasted.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: has anyone tried KDE5?
On Monday 06 Oct 2014 16:44:57 Jens Reinemuth wrote: Am Sonntag, 5. Oktober 2014, 18:59:31 schrieb Volker Armin Hemmann: Am 05.10.2014 um 18:27 schrieb Alan McKinnon: On 05/10/2014 17:50, Michael Palimaka wrote:ystem all that much. My real beef is with akonadi and kdepim. I could never get the damn thing to actually work or to tell me what it was doing in a manner I could understand. The last straw was around KDE-4.4 when the importer managed to destroy my entire mail store and leave me with nothing, so I switched to claws and several years later switched again to Thunderbird. or even better: akonadi eating 10 years and 100 000+ archived emails. But the gains were there - search became slower, if it worked at all and all filters broke - several times. I can't really count how many times i simply deleted all the .config/akonadi and .local/akonadi stuff - and let akonadi regenerate it, simply because i deeply believed in the whole crap getting better! It never got better... Currently i can live with all that stuff, simply by disabling all nepomuk- and akonadi-stuff and waiting for it to show all my mails again... Funny: My wife has a second account with exactly the same settings and is deeply annoyed by the permanent popups telling her that the balloo-indexer has closed... Indeed she has disabled it!!! So i have to kill that shit every time! Most annoying story in the last time: KdePIM 4.10 simply stopped working with my private Courier-IMAP-Server, telling everyone, that courier has a bug... Ok, maybe, but it worked since every Version and just stopped because one ore more developers simply decided to do things right!!! No Problem in Gentoo, simply mask and downgrade kdepim-meta... I had more problems at work with Kubuntu! With KDE4.10.1 everything works as expected... But this is just a gnome-like-behavior... The developers simply don't really care what the users want or need... i really never heard of anybody saying: Oh that search stuff is cool! I use it regularily! And to go deeper: Why don't they store documents in a database, that is better optimized for documents... MongoDB? CouchDB? Instead they use this shitty mixture of MySQL and Virtuoso!? WTF? No, no, no! What they should do is use Microsoft's Sharepoint server solution, which stores documents in the MS SQL as binary blobs ... millions of corporate users can't be wrong! O_o -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: has anyone tried KDE5?
On 6 October 2014 23:47:51 CEST, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday 06 Oct 2014 16:44:57 Jens Reinemuth wrote: Am Sonntag, 5. Oktober 2014, 18:59:31 schrieb Volker Armin Hemmann: Am 05.10.2014 um 18:27 schrieb Alan McKinnon: On 05/10/2014 17:50, Michael Palimaka wrote:ystem all that much. My real beef is with akonadi and kdepim. I could never get the damn thing to actually work or to tell me what it was doing in a manner I could understand. The last straw was around KDE-4.4 when the importer managed to destroy my entire mail store and leave me with nothing, so I switched to claws and several years later switched again to Thunderbird. or even better: akonadi eating 10 years and 100 000+ archived emails. But the gains were there - search became slower, if it worked at all and all filters broke - several times. I can't really count how many times i simply deleted all the .config/akonadi and .local/akonadi stuff - and let akonadi regenerate it, simply because i deeply believed in the whole crap getting better! It never got better... Currently i can live with all that stuff, simply by disabling all nepomuk- and akonadi-stuff and waiting for it to show all my mails again... Funny: My wife has a second account with exactly the same settings and is deeply annoyed by the permanent popups telling her that the balloo-indexer has closed... Indeed she has disabled it!!! So i have to kill that shit every time! Most annoying story in the last time: KdePIM 4.10 simply stopped working with my private Courier-IMAP-Server, telling everyone, that courier has a bug... Ok, maybe, but it worked since every Version and just stopped because one ore more developers simply decided to do things right!!! No Problem in Gentoo, simply mask and downgrade kdepim-meta... I had more problems at work with Kubuntu! With KDE4.10.1 everything works as expected... But this is just a gnome-like-behavior... The developers simply don't really care what the users want or need... i really never heard of anybody saying: Oh that search stuff is cool! I use it regularily! And to go deeper: Why don't they store documents in a database, that is better optimized for documents... MongoDB? CouchDB? Instead they use this shitty mixture of MySQL and Virtuoso!? WTF? No, no, no! What they should do is use Microsoft's Sharepoint server solution, which stores documents in the MS SQL as binary blobs ... millions of corporate users can't be wrong! O_o Please don't tell them! At one of my customers they use Sharepoint as a CVS for sourcecode I keep having to merge changes manually -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: has anyone tried KDE5?
On 10/4/2014 1:37 PM, Michael Palimaka kensing...@gentoo.org wrote: The KDE release structure has evolved[1], decoupling the release cycle of the Platform, Workspace, and Applications. This means that there is no longer a single Software Compilation in the same way there was with KDE 4. Interesting. Has this been discussed in detail before? What is the consensus about this in the gentoo dev world? Meaning - is it a good or bad thing? I've been thinking about giving KDE a try again, but still read enough negative things about it to give me pause (my time is very limited so I have to pick/choose what I want to spend it on)...
[gentoo-user] Re: has anyone tried KDE5?
On 10/06/2014 12:17 AM, Tanstaafl wrote: On 10/4/2014 1:37 PM, Michael Palimaka kensing...@gentoo.org wrote: The KDE release structure has evolved[1], decoupling the release cycle of the Platform, Workspace, and Applications. This means that there is no longer a single Software Compilation in the same way there was with KDE 4. Interesting. Has this been discussed in detail before? What is the consensus about this in the gentoo dev world? Meaning - is it a good or bad thing? I've been thinking about giving KDE a try again, but still read enough negative things about it to give me pause (my time is very limited so I have to pick/choose what I want to spend it on)... There's a fair bit of info about it floating around upstream. The Frameworks split has involved a great deal of cleanup, with a focus on continuous integration and pushing functionality to Qt where appropriate. The move from a single monolithic kdelibs to about 60 small frameworks will also drive adoption of the platform as it substantially reduces dependency bloat. As for Gentoo, we're just following upstream. :-) There's many more ebuilds than before, but packaging is a lot simpler. Given that it's early days both up and downstream, I wouldn't yet recommend Plasma 5 on Gentoo for someone that's not at least a little bit adventurous. I'd be interested to know what KDE negatives you've experienced/heard in the past though.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: has anyone tried KDE5?
On 10/5/2014 11:01 AM, Michael Palimaka kensing...@gentoo.org wrote: I'd be interested to know what KDE negatives you've experienced/heard in the past though. Bloat, buggy/unstable ever since the move from KDE3 to KDE4 (and never really gotten any better over time), etc... But of course there are always haters too... I'm sure it isn't as bad as the loudest complainers make it sound...
[gentoo-user] Re: has anyone tried KDE5?
On 10/06/2014 02:35 AM, Tanstaafl wrote: On 10/5/2014 11:01 AM, Michael Palimaka kensing...@gentoo.org wrote: I'd be interested to know what KDE negatives you've experienced/heard in the past though. Bloat, buggy/unstable ever since the move from KDE3 to KDE4 (and never really gotten any better over time), etc... But of course there are always haters too... I'm sure it isn't as bad as the loudest complainers make it sound... There were definitely issues in KDE 4 early days but there have been substantial improvements since then. Regarding bloat/performance, this biggest complaints seem to be about nepomuk/baloo. We provide the semantic-desktop USE flag to provide the option of disabling this feature wherever it's possible.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: has anyone tried KDE5?
On 05/10/2014 17:50, Michael Palimaka wrote: On 10/06/2014 02:35 AM, Tanstaafl wrote: On 10/5/2014 11:01 AM, Michael Palimaka kensing...@gentoo.org wrote: I'd be interested to know what KDE negatives you've experienced/heard in the past though. Bloat, buggy/unstable ever since the move from KDE3 to KDE4 (and never really gotten any better over time), etc... But of course there are always haters too... I'm sure it isn't as bad as the loudest complainers make it sound... There were definitely issues in KDE 4 early days but there have been substantial improvements since then. Regarding bloat/performance, this biggest complaints seem to be about nepomuk/baloo. We provide the semantic-desktop USE flag to provide the option of disabling this feature wherever it's possible. People do complain about nepomuk/baloo, but in my opinion it's mostly unwarranted. The first indexing action did always take a long time (and so does mlocate) but once that's done, I found it didn't really impact the system all that much. My real beef is with akonadi and kdepim. I could never get the damn thing to actually work or to tell me what it was doing in a manner I could understand. The last straw was around KDE-4.4 when the importer managed to destroy my entire mail store and leave me with nothing, so I switched to claws and several years later switched again to Thunderbird. I keep reading reports that kdepim is nowadays so much better and stable, but to be frank I do not trust it, and likely never will. I also understand this is not entirely logical, but it's just the way it is. The rest of KDE I find to be very usable and rather pleasant to use. My sole remaining gripe is lack of stored sessions in dolphin :-) -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: has anyone tried KDE5?
Am 05.10.2014 um 18:27 schrieb Alan McKinnon: On 05/10/2014 17:50, Michael Palimaka wrote: On 10/06/2014 02:35 AM, Tanstaafl wrote: On 10/5/2014 11:01 AM, Michael Palimaka kensing...@gentoo.org wrote: I'd be interested to know what KDE negatives you've experienced/heard in the past though. Bloat, buggy/unstable ever since the move from KDE3 to KDE4 (and never really gotten any better over time), etc... But of course there are always haters too... I'm sure it isn't as bad as the loudest complainers make it sound... There were definitely issues in KDE 4 early days but there have been substantial improvements since then. Regarding bloat/performance, this biggest complaints seem to be about nepomuk/baloo. We provide the semantic-desktop USE flag to provide the option of disabling this feature wherever it's possible. People do complain about nepomuk/baloo, but in my opinion it's mostly unwarranted. The first indexing action did always take a long time (and so does mlocate) but once that's done, I found it didn't really impact the system all that much. My real beef is with akonadi and kdepim. I could never get the damn thing to actually work or to tell me what it was doing in a manner I could understand. The last straw was around KDE-4.4 when the importer managed to destroy my entire mail store and leave me with nothing, so I switched to claws and several years later switched again to Thunderbird. or even better: akonadi eating 10 years and 100 000+ archived emails. But the gains were there - search became slower, if it worked at all and all filters broke - several times. I keep reading reports that kdepim is nowadays so much better and stable, but to be frank I do not trust it, and likely never will. I also understand this is not entirely logical, but it's just the way it is. as long as akonadi with its idiotic database backend is around, it will never be trustworthy. The rest of KDE I find to be very usable and rather pleasant to use. My sole remaining gripe is lack of stored sessions in dolphin :-) My favorite fuckups which are still around: tumblr can make konqueror hang at 100% cpu for minutes, because of some javascript - firefox and chromium are fine and dlisted in one tab is fine, but open one of their articles in a new tab and konqueror just vanishes. Not even the crash dialog pops up.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: has anyone tried KDE5?
On 05/10/2014 18:59, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: My real beef is with akonadi and kdepim. I could never get the damn thing to actually work or to tell me what it was doing in a manner I could understand. The last straw was around KDE-4.4 when the importer managed to destroy my entire mail store and leave me with nothing, so I switched to claws and several years later switched again to Thunderbird. or even better: akonadi eating 10 years and 100 000+ archived emails. But the gains were there - search became slower, if it worked at all and all filters broke - several times. Ever notice how no other pim-like application feels the need to store everything in mysql or similar? The fact that so many pim-like apps actually do work should count for something I keep reading reports that kdepim is nowadays so much better and stable, but to be frank I do not trust it, and likely never will. I also understand this is not entirely logical, but it's just the way it is. as long as akonadi with its idiotic database backend is around, it will never be trustworthy. The rest of KDE I find to be very usable and rather pleasant to use. My sole remaining gripe is lack of stored sessions in dolphin :-) My favorite fuckups which are still around: tumblr can make konqueror hang at 100% cpu for minutes, because of some javascript - firefox and chromium are fine and dlisted in one tab is fine, but open one of their articles in a new tab and konqueror just vanishes. Not even the crash dialog pops up. I haven't used konqueror as a browser in many many months, I get along just fine with firefox and chromium. I believe konqueror is essentially unmaintained these days or at least on life support. Make a fine file manager though (kparts has always been one of KDE's very much better ideas) -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: has anyone tried KDE5?
Am 05.10.2014 um 19:10 schrieb Alan McKinnon: On 05/10/2014 18:59, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: My real beef is with akonadi and kdepim. I could never get the damn thing to actually work or to tell me what it was doing in a manner I could understand. The last straw was around KDE-4.4 when the importer managed to destroy my entire mail store and leave me with nothing, so I switched to claws and several years later switched again to Thunderbird. or even better: akonadi eating 10 years and 100 000+ archived emails. But the gains were there - search became slower, if it worked at all and all filters broke - several times. Ever notice how no other pim-like application feels the need to store everything in mysql or similar? The fact that so many pim-like apps actually do work should count for something I keep reading reports that kdepim is nowadays so much better and stable, but to be frank I do not trust it, and likely never will. I also understand this is not entirely logical, but it's just the way it is. as long as akonadi with its idiotic database backend is around, it will never be trustworthy. The rest of KDE I find to be very usable and rather pleasant to use. My sole remaining gripe is lack of stored sessions in dolphin :-) My favorite fuckups which are still around: tumblr can make konqueror hang at 100% cpu for minutes, because of some javascript - firefox and chromium are fine and dlisted in one tab is fine, but open one of their articles in a new tab and konqueror just vanishes. Not even the crash dialog pops up. I haven't used konqueror as a browser in many many months, I get along just fine with firefox and chromium. I believe konqueror is essentially unmaintained these days or at least on life support. Make a fine file manager though (kparts has always been one of KDE's very much better ideas) konqueror for the usual stuff firefox for video sites (like youtube)facebook chromium for fucking retard sites that make my blood boil. like *.yahoo.com, tumblr, flickr.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: has anyone tried KDE5?
Am 04.10.2014 um 19:37 schrieb Michael Palimaka: On 10/04/2014 11:26 PM, behrouz khosravi wrote: Hello everyone. I was wondering if anyone has tried KDE5? Do you know when it's going to be placed in the main tree? thanks Hi, The KDE release structure has evolved[1], decoupling the release cycle of the Platform, Workspace, and Applications. This means that there is no longer a single Software Compilation in the same way there was with KDE 4. We (Gentoo KDE team) have not yet made a decision as to when the Plasma 5 Workspace will be pushed to the main tree. I've been using it on a daily basis for about six months, and consider the next release (5.1.0) to be a good candidate for the main tree. The underlying Platform (KDE Frameworks 5) upon which Plasma 5 is built is expected in the main tree in about a week, after the 5.3.0 release. Best regards, Michael [1]: https://dot.kde.org/2013/09/04/kde-release-structure-evolves ok, at the moment you can't even install this mess: merge: there are no ebuilds built with USE flags to satisfy =dev-qt/qtwebkit-5.3.2:5[debug=,widgets]. !!! One of the following packages is required to complete your request: - dev-qt/qtwebkit-5.3.2-r1::gentoo (Missing IUSE: widgets) (dependency required by dev-qt/qtquick1-5.3.2 [ebuild]) (dependency required by kde-frameworks/plasma-5.2.0::kde [ebuild]) (dependency required by @kde-frameworks-5.2 [argument]) yepp, three ebuilds depending on qtwebkit with the widgets useflag - that it doesn't even have. Oh joy. And that after 2h+ dealing with other useflag related shenanigans. btw from the changelog: 25 Sep 2014; Michael Palimaka kensing...@gentoo.org metadata.xml: Remove unused USE flag. that unused useflag wasn't 'widgets' by chance? ^^
[gentoo-user] Re: has anyone tried KDE5?
On 10/04/2014 11:26 PM, behrouz khosravi wrote: Hello everyone. I was wondering if anyone has tried KDE5? Do you know when it's going to be placed in the main tree? thanks Hi, The KDE release structure has evolved[1], decoupling the release cycle of the Platform, Workspace, and Applications. This means that there is no longer a single Software Compilation in the same way there was with KDE 4. We (Gentoo KDE team) have not yet made a decision as to when the Plasma 5 Workspace will be pushed to the main tree. I've been using it on a daily basis for about six months, and consider the next release (5.1.0) to be a good candidate for the main tree. The underlying Platform (KDE Frameworks 5) upon which Plasma 5 is built is expected in the main tree in about a week, after the 5.3.0 release. Best regards, Michael [1]: https://dot.kde.org/2013/09/04/kde-release-structure-evolves
