Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
You're probably thinking of this:
http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=256188
It's a relatively rare bug, but it is quite annoying when it does happen.
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:02 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote:
There are three blockers holding baselayout-2/openrc back, none of them affect
you:
1. {something rare, I forget}
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
Apparently, though unproven, at 15:39 on Tuesday 26 October 2010, Dean Matzkov
did opine thusly:
You're probably thinking of this:
http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=256188
It's a relatively rare bug, but it is quite annoying when it does happen.
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:02 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
wrote:
There are three blockers holding baselayout-2/openrc back, none of them
affect you:
1. {something rare, I forget}
No, not that one. That makes 4 :-)
But good to know about this bug, I also hit it occasionally.
--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
- Original Message From: Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 00:29:30 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: Although, perhaps I'm missing something but doesn't alpha come *before* release candidate? :) Yes, but: 2.2.0_alpha1 comes *after* 2.2_rc99 It should also come after 2.2, but I appear to have missed that release. Why? 2.2 == 2.2.0 So 2.2.0_alpha1 would make a logical progression. Ben
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 07:18:23 -0700 (PDT), BRM wrote: 2.2.0_alpha1 comes *after* 2.2_rc99 It should also come after 2.2, but I appear to have missed that release. Why? 2.2 == 2.2.0 Not in portage's eyes. So 2.2.0_alpha1 would make a logical progression. Since when did an alpha come after release candidates? That's anything but logical. In order to fool portage into considering the alpha to be later, the version had to be bumped from 2.2 to 2.2.0. -- Neil Bothwick Top Oxymorons Number 20: Synthetic natural gas signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
On 10/23/2010 5:03 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 02:50:26 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: You're mixing two different definitions of stable. Portage 2.2 is certainly reliable, but it is anything but stable with a new version coming out every day at the moment,. I'm waiting for tomorrow when my regularly scheduled portage update hits _rc100. Well, it hasn't happened yet. A day without a portage update, a rare thing these days. Maybe someone decided that Gentoo is not Debian and 99 release candidates should be enough for a bunch of python scripts. Looks like someone agrees with you: [ebuild U ] sys-apps/portage-2.2.0_alpha1 [2.2_rc91] Although, perhaps I'm missing something but doesn't alpha come *before* release candidate? :)
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
On Sun, 24 Oct 2010 10:30:55 -0400, Mike Edenfield wrote: Maybe someone decided that Gentoo is not Debian and 99 release candidates should be enough for a bunch of python scripts. Looks like someone agrees with you: [ebuild U ] sys-apps/portage-2.2.0_alpha1 [2.2_rc91] Although, perhaps I'm missing something but doesn't alpha come *before* release candidate? :) That was my thought too, and they had to switch from 2.2 to 2.2.0 to stop portage itself feeling the same. Perhaps it will be stabilised before Debian 10.0 is released... -- Neil Bothwick I heard someone tried the monkeys-on-typewriters bit trying for the plays of W. Shakespeare but all they got was the collected works of Francis Bacon signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
On Sun, 2010-10-24 at 10:30 -0400, Mike Edenfield wrote: Looks like someone agrees with you: [ebuild U ] sys-apps/portage-2.2.0_alpha1 [2.2_rc91] Although, perhaps I'm missing something but doesn't alpha come *before* release candidate? :) One could argue that if you've had as many as 99 release candidates you were pretty much alpha all along ;) -a
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
Apparently, though unproven, at 16:30 on Sunday 24 October 2010, Mike Edenfield did opine thusly: On 10/23/2010 5:03 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 02:50:26 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: You're mixing two different definitions of stable. Portage 2.2 is certainly reliable, but it is anything but stable with a new version coming out every day at the moment,. I'm waiting for tomorrow when my regularly scheduled portage update hits _rc100. Well, it hasn't happened yet. A day without a portage update, a rare thing these days. Maybe someone decided that Gentoo is not Debian and 99 release candidates should be enough for a bunch of python scripts. Looks like someone agrees with you: [ebuild U ] sys-apps/portage-2.2.0_alpha1 [2.2_rc91] Although, perhaps I'm missing something but doesn't alpha come *before* release candidate? :) Yes, but: 2.2.0_alpha1 comes *after* 2.2_rc99 -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 00:29:30 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: Although, perhaps I'm missing something but doesn't alpha come *before* release candidate? :) Yes, but: 2.2.0_alpha1 comes *after* 2.2_rc99 It should also come after 2.2, but I appear to have missed that release. 99 release candidates and then no release is something of an anti-climax :( -- Neil Bothwick Eye of newt, toe of frog, regular Coke and fries to go, please. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
Neil Bothwick wrote: On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 02:50:26 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: You're mixing two different definitions of stable. Portage 2.2 is certainly reliable, but it is anything but stable with a new version coming out every day at the moment,. I'm waiting for tomorrow when my regularly scheduled portage update hits _rc100. Well, it hasn't happened yet. A day without a portage update, a rare thing these days. Maybe someone decided that Gentoo is not Debian and 99 release candidates should be enough for a bunch of python scripts. Or after 99 tries, they just can't do it right and should give up. lol Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
On Friday 22 October 2010 21:52:18 Dale wrote: I'm just hoping that when the switch comes, it is painless. It was for me - so much so that I wondered what all the fuss had been about. -- Rgds Peter. Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23.
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 02:48:58AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
Apparently, though unproven, at 23:50 on Friday 22 October 2010, Zeerak
Mustafa Waseem did opine thusly:
It's openrc-${PV}+1 - there's no question about that.
Until someone actually ponies up and commits something other than openrc
to the tree, it's gonna stay on openrc.
I think you misunderstand what ~arch means.
I'll gladly be explained, just in case I should have it wrong. :-)
What I meant however was that there has been talk of starting a migration
of ~arch users to devicekit when it is deemed ready. As far as I remember
no conclusion was brought to that discussion other than openrc being moved
inhouse and seeing how that went. So the ball is still in the air as far
as openrc and a replacement goes, to my understanding.
~arch is the collection of unstable ebuilds in portage; stuff that is good
enough for a release but not yet fully tested within a Gentoo system. With
enough successful feedback from users, it is marked stable and moves to
arch.
~arch is not experimental, stuff planned for the future, someone's wicked
overlay or anything else other than stable releases in a *gentoo* test phase,
i.e. it's not so much the software that's being tested but the ebuild.
snip
It seems I understood then, though it seems I haven't clearly portrayed my
understanding, but thanks for explaining anyway :)
devicekit stands very little chance of ever being the default. It depends on
dbus and expat. Remember hal and all the crap that came along with it? Gentoo
is not Ubuntu or Fedora, it is installable on anything from ARM phones to
IBM's gigantic hard iron. Why on earth would anyone mandate dbus to be
compulsory on a headless server for example?
If you want to know what the future holds for Gentoo, best not to listen much
to a bunch of dudes rambling on gentoo-dev and blogs. They're just talking,
and talk is cheap. If you want to know what the future holds for @system and
the toolchain, vapier is a good one to listen to. So's the council, GLEPs and
whatever happens in voting. The kong thread that's been mentioned in this
thread has a gem of a quote from vapier, something like:
People saw Roy moving away from Gentoo, and freaked out.
That's it, nothing more. Some dudes freaked out.
Besides, lookee here:
nazgul ~ # eix -e devicekit
* sys-apps/devicekit
Available versions: (~)003 {doc}
Homepage:http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/DeviceKit
Description: D-Bus abstraction for enumerating devices and
listening for device events using udev
nazgul ~ # eix -e dbus-glib
[I] dev-libs/dbus-glib
Available versions: 0.86 (~)0.88 {bash-completion debug doc static-libs
test}
Installed versions: 0.88(00:25:33 12/10/10)(bash-completion -debug -doc
-static-libs -test)
Homepage:http://dbus.freedesktop.org/
Description: D-Bus bindings for glib
nazgul ~ # eix systemd
No matches found.
devicekit has one version (003) and systemd doesn't even have an ebuild in
the
tree. That system is probably sitting about where openrc was when Roy had
gotten to 20% of where he eventually took it.
openrc works, it has three outstanding edge case blocker bugs. What possible
technical reason is there to go chasing butterflies down some totally
unproven
path?
In this case I'm completely with you. While there are nifty features in systemd
it is nothing that can't be achieved by other means and openrc really does work
brilliantly (for me) so I'm not exactly against systemd, I just don't see a
point in using it. Other than aligning with other distros, but then what's the
point of having different distributions if they all are alike :)
--
Zeerak Waseem
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
On 22 October 2010 11:02, James wirel...@tampabay.rr.com wrote: Hello, Well here it seems that openrc is going ~arch http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-688090.html So has it been decided that openrc is the way forward? Any caveats with openrc we should be aware of? Just to put in my two cents, which is largely a smaller general point and not related to the fairly informative discussion regarding openrc itself. Basically, any time I do a major update like this, I make a disk image styled backup. I run other backups more regularly (rsnapshot), but if something hits the fan on an update and I don't have the time, patience, or luck to fix it right away, then I just toss my system back to exactly how it was without fretting. These days it's either the first point (a matter of time right then) or just a comfort factor from my older days of doing large Gentoo updates and not knowing a lot of the basics of how to properly update. Anyway, systemrescuecd or even something simple like gparted live cd will have partimage which is a quick and easy tool for full backups. Just don't turn off the 2GB file size if you use the gzip option (something goes wrong that I forget now). Of course you can even use dd if you it's your style. I'm aware this strays slightly from the main question asked here, but I think that question was considered already by others. That being said, I too did the openrc migration a long ways back and it was fine. I also agree with the general sentiment that sticking with ARCH or ~ARCH makes more sense. But if you have some time right now to do updates and plan to be really busy in the near future, then that could be a reason to do such an update. ~daid
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
Any caveats with openrc we should be aware of? # genlop -l | grep openrc Thu Apr 24 14:05:53 2008 sys-apps/openrc-0.2.2 I've been running baselayout2/openrc oder 2.5 years now without any problems. Of course this does not mean it will run smoothly on your gentoo box. As I recall upgrading to b2/openrc involves lots of changed config files (mostly conf.d init init.d), so you have to be a little careful.
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 12:13:16 +0200 Michael Hampicke wrote: Any caveats with openrc we should be aware of? # genlop -l | grep openrc Thu Apr 24 14:05:53 2008 sys-apps/openrc-0.2.2 I've been running baselayout2/openrc oder 2.5 years now without any problems. Of course this does not mean it will run smoothly on your gentoo box. As I recall upgrading to b2/openrc involves lots of changed config files (mostly conf.d init init.d), so you have to be a little careful. My recollection was of (1) being scared that I'd get the changes wrong for baselayout2 (2) the changes were easy and went smoothly (3) no problems! FWIW, i've been using baselayout2/openrc since August 2008.
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 07:18:38 -0400, David Relson wrote: As I recall upgrading to b2/openrc involves lots of changed config files (mostly conf.d init init.d), so you have to be a little careful. My recollection was of (1) being scared that I'd get the changes wrong for baselayout2 (2) the changes were easy and went smoothly (3) no problems! I have a similar recollection. Openrc will be stabilised at some time, so you may as well do the upgrade when you feel like it rather that when the devs decide to flip a keyword. -- Neil Bothwick It's not a bug, it's tradition! signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 5:13 AM, Michael Hampicke gentoo-u...@hadt.biz wrote: Any caveats with openrc we should be aware of? # genlop -l | grep openrc Thu Apr 24 14:05:53 2008 sys-apps/openrc-0.2.2 I've been running baselayout2/openrc oder 2.5 years now without any problems. Of course this does not mean it will run smoothly on your gentoo box. As I recall upgrading to b2/openrc involves lots of changed config files (mostly conf.d init init.d), so you have to be a little careful. Same here, no problems since day 1 in fully ~amd64 Gentoo system.
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
On 22 Oct 2010, at 12:29, Neil Bothwick wrote: ... Openrc will be stabilised at some time, so you may as well do the upgrade when you feel like it rather that when the devs decide to flip a keyword. I thought this was a matter of debate - Openrc was IIRC the creation of Roy Marples, who was originally a Gentoo dev and the baselayout maintainer. As Roy developed baselayout 2 (or baselayout - The Next Generation, as you might call it) he decided to generalise it, AFAICT, in order to make it useful to other distros or unices (e.g. the BSDs). Roy is no longer a Gentoo dev and is no longer maintaining Openrc: http://roy.marples.name/projects/openrc I understood the future of Openrc within Gentoo to be in question: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_ce55de133ca592b638db758c9e457370.xml or http://tinyurl.com/3xglcqb Roy is the author, his own words: The fact that several people said they would attempt a stable push and then gave up (I was one - lol) says quite a bit really. That Gentoo-dev thread was 3 or 4 months ago, and I haven't read all of it today. But based on my understanding, I would discourage anyone in stable from migrating to Openrc unless they need to, or unless they're deciding to run entirely ~arch packages on their system. From my understanding I would wait and see, and migrate when the devs decide the time is right for a mass migration of stable users. Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 17:19:51 +0100, Stroller wrote: ... Openrc will be stabilised at some time, so you may as well do the upgrade when you feel like it rather that when the devs decide to flip a keyword. I thought this was a matter of debate - Openrc was IIRC the creation of Roy Marples, who was originally a Gentoo dev and the baselayout maintainer. As Roy developed baselayout 2 (or baselayout - The Next Generation, as you might call it) he decided to generalise it, AFAICT, in order to make it useful to other distros or unices (e.g. the BSDs). Roy is no longer a Gentoo dev and is no longer maintaining Openrc: http://roy.marples.name/projects/openrc I sit corrected. I understood the future of Openrc within Gentoo to be in question: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_ce55de133ca592b638db758c9e457370.xml An interesting read, until the rants start, we'll just have to wait and see. -- Neil Bothwick If you consult enough experts, you can confirm any opinion. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
Am 22.10.2010 17:06, schrieb Paul Hartman: Same here, no problems since day 1 in fully ~amd64 Gentoo system. Same here (just for the records).
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
Apparently, though unproven, at 18:19 on Friday 22 October 2010, Stroller did opine thusly: On 22 Oct 2010, at 12:29, Neil Bothwick wrote: ... Openrc will be stabilised at some time, so you may as well do the upgrade when you feel like it rather that when the devs decide to flip a keyword. I thought this was a matter of debate - Openrc was IIRC the creation of Roy Marples, who was originally a Gentoo dev and the baselayout maintainer. As Roy developed baselayout 2 (or baselayout - The Next Generation, as you might call it) he decided to generalise it, AFAICT, in order to make it useful to other distros or unices (e.g. the BSDs). Roy is no longer a Gentoo dev and is no longer maintaining Openrc: http://roy.marples.name/projects/openrc I understood the future of Openrc within Gentoo to be in question: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_ce55de133ca592b638db758c9e457370. xml or http://tinyurl.com/3xglcqb Did you and I read the same mail thread? I read all of it - did you? The end result of that is not that there is a question over openrc, it is that openrc will proceed. And anyone else that wants to pursue systemd or any other init system is free to go ahead and show up on gentoo-dev with running code. Meanwhile, openrc is where it's going. The thread started with someone wondering about openrc; I disagree with your conclusion about where it ended. Roy is the author, his own words: The fact that several people said they would attempt a stable push and then gave up (I was one - lol) says quite a bit really. That Gentoo-dev thread was 3 or 4 months ago, and I haven't read all of it today. But based on my understanding, I would discourage anyone in stable from migrating to Openrc unless they need to, or unless they're deciding to run entirely ~arch packages on their system. From my understanding I would wait and see, and migrate when the devs decide the time is right for a mass migration of stable users. That's a straw man argument. Roy left Gentoo because of conflicts between his wish to be 100% POSIX compliant and most everyone else thinking they should just stick with bashisms and gentooisms. Which is kinda reasonable considering that portage REQUIRES bash. Roy did not leave openrc development becuase it's a lost cause. He left apparently because it stopped being fun - the usual (and often only valid) case for such things. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 08:54:25PM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 17:19:51 +0100, Stroller wrote: ... Openrc will be stabilised at some time, so you may as well do the upgrade when you feel like it rather that when the devs decide to flip a keyword. I thought this was a matter of debate - Openrc was IIRC the creation of Roy Marples, who was originally a Gentoo dev and the baselayout maintainer. As Roy developed baselayout 2 (or baselayout - The Next Generation, as you might call it) he decided to generalise it, AFAICT, in order to make it useful to other distros or unices (e.g. the BSDs). Roy is no longer a Gentoo dev and is no longer maintaining Openrc: http://roy.marples.name/projects/openrc I sit corrected. I understood the future of Openrc within Gentoo to be in question: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_ce55de133ca592b638db758c9e457370.xml An interesting read, until the rants start, we'll just have to wait and see. Well, there isn't any question as far as whether or not openrc is going to be stabilized, there is however a question of what's going to be put in ~arch afterwards, whether or not to use devicekit or whatever it's called now. I don't have time to find them myself, but check out the two threads named The future of sys-apps/openrc in Gentoo and openrc stabilization update. The general consesus is that for now openrc will be stabilized and the project has been brought back into Gentoo, so the question for now is what the future of ~arch is. On an end-note, I've been using openrc for about a year now on a fully ~arch system and it works like a charm :) -- Zeerak Waseem
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
Alan McKinnon wrote: Apparently, though unproven, at 18:19 on Friday 22 October 2010, Stroller did opine thusly: On 22 Oct 2010, at 12:29, Neil Bothwick wrote: ... Openrc will be stabilised at some time, so you may as well do the upgrade when you feel like it rather that when the devs decide to flip a keyword. I thought this was a matter of debate - Openrc was IIRC the creation of Roy Marples, who was originally a Gentoo dev and the baselayout maintainer. As Roy developed baselayout 2 (or baselayout - The Next Generation, as you might call it) he decided to generalise it, AFAICT, in order to make it useful to other distros or unices (e.g. the BSDs). Roy is no longer a Gentoo dev and is no longer maintaining Openrc: http://roy.marples.name/projects/openrc I understood the future of Openrc within Gentoo to be in question: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_ce55de133ca592b638db758c9e457370. xml or http://tinyurl.com/3xglcqb Did you and I read the same mail thread? I read all of it - did you? The end result of that is not that there is a question over openrc, it is that openrc will proceed. And anyone else that wants to pursue systemd or any other init system is free to go ahead and show up on gentoo-dev with running code. Meanwhile, openrc is where it's going. The thread started with someone wondering about openrc; I disagree with your conclusion about where it ended. That was what I recalled about the openrc discussion too. It is coming but just not sure when. Me, I'm not switching until it starts getting closer to that time. It, like some of the newer versions of portage, appears to be stable and is used by many people but is not marked stable yet. Both of those sort of confuse me sometimes. I'm just hoping that when the switch comes, it is painless. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
Apparently, though unproven, at 22:37 on Friday 22 October 2010, Zeerak
Mustafa Waseem did opine thusly:
I understood the future of Openrc within Gentoo to be in question:
http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_ce55de133ca592b638db758c9e457
370.xml
An interesting read, until the rants start, we'll just have to wait and
see.
Well, there isn't any question as far as whether or not openrc is going to
be stabilized, there is however a question of what's going to be put in
~arch afterwards, whether or not to use devicekit or whatever it's called
now. I don't have time to find them myself, but check out the two threads
named The future of sys-apps/openrc in Gentoo and openrc stabilization
update. The general consesus is that for now openrc will be stabilized
and the project has been brought back into Gentoo, so the question for now
is what the future of ~arch is.
It's openrc-${PV}+1 - there's no question about that.
Until someone actually ponies up and commits something other than openrc to
the tree, it's gonna stay on openrc.
I think you misunderstand what ~arch means.
--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
Apparently, though unproven, at 22:52 on Friday 22 October 2010, Dale did
opine thusly:
Alan McKinnon wrote:
Apparently, though unproven, at 18:19 on Friday 22 October 2010, Stroller
did
opine thusly:
On 22 Oct 2010, at 12:29, Neil Bothwick wrote:
... Openrc will be stabilised at some time,
so you may as well do the upgrade when you feel like it rather that
when the devs decide to flip a keyword.
I thought this was a matter of debate - Openrc was IIRC the creation of
Roy Marples, who was originally a Gentoo dev and the baselayout
maintainer.
As Roy developed baselayout 2 (or baselayout - The Next Generation, as
you might call it) he decided to generalise it, AFAICT, in order to make
it useful to other distros or unices (e.g. the BSDs).
Roy is no longer a Gentoo dev and is no longer maintaining Openrc:
http://roy.marples.name/projects/openrc
I understood the future of Openrc within Gentoo to be in question:
http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_ce55de133ca592b638db758c9e4573
70. xml or http://tinyurl.com/3xglcqb
Did you and I read the same mail thread? I read all of it - did you?
The end result of that is not that there is a question over openrc, it is
that openrc will proceed. And anyone else that wants to pursue systemd
or any other init system is free to go ahead and show up on gentoo-dev
with running code. Meanwhile, openrc is where it's going.
The thread started with someone wondering about openrc; I disagree with
your conclusion about where it ended.
That was what I recalled about the openrc discussion too. It is coming
but just not sure when. Me, I'm not switching until it starts getting
closer to that time. It, like some of the newer versions of portage,
appears to be stable and is used by many people but is not marked stable
yet. Both of those sort of confuse me sometimes.
I'm just hoping that when the switch comes, it is painless.
Just do it. Seriously.
There are three blockers holding baselayout-2/openrc back, none of them affect
you:
1. {something rare, I forget}
2. Something wierd about evms on weird arches
3. Some obscure mdadm thing
Those are blockers, true enough. But they are *Gentoo* blockers, not *Dale's
Gentoo* blockers.
Seriously, just do it. You'll be glad you did. You'll spend an hour or three
double checking lots of stuff in /etc/conf.d/ and then you can reap permanent
benefits.
--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 10:59:18PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
Apparently, though unproven, at 22:37 on Friday 22 October 2010, Zeerak
Mustafa Waseem did opine thusly:
I understood the future of Openrc within Gentoo to be in question:
http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_ce55de133ca592b638db758c9e457
370.xml
An interesting read, until the rants start, we'll just have to wait and
see.
Well, there isn't any question as far as whether or not openrc is going to
be stabilized, there is however a question of what's going to be put in
~arch afterwards, whether or not to use devicekit or whatever it's called
now. I don't have time to find them myself, but check out the two threads
named The future of sys-apps/openrc in Gentoo and openrc stabilization
update. The general consesus is that for now openrc will be stabilized
and the project has been brought back into Gentoo, so the question for now
is what the future of ~arch is.
It's openrc-${PV}+1 - there's no question about that.
Until someone actually ponies up and commits something other than openrc to
the tree, it's gonna stay on openrc.
I think you misunderstand what ~arch means.
I'll gladly be explained, just in case I should have it wrong. :-)
What I meant however was that there has been talk of starting a migration of
~arch users to devicekit when it is deemed ready. As far as I remember no
conclusion was brought to that discussion other than openrc being moved inhouse
and seeing how that went. So the ball is still in the air as far as openrc and
a replacement goes, to my understanding.
--
Zeerak Waseem
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 15:52:18 -0500, Dale wrote: That was what I recalled about the openrc discussion too. It is coming but just not sure when. Me, I'm not switching until it starts getting closer to that time. It, like some of the newer versions of portage, appears to be stable and is used by many people but is not marked stable yet. Both of those sort of confuse me sometimes. You're mixing two different definitions of stable. Portage 2.2 is certainly reliable, but it is anything but stable with a new version coming out every day at the moment,. -- Neil Bothwick Stupid user error. Terminate user (Y/n) ? signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
Neil Bothwick wrote: On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 15:52:18 -0500, Dale wrote: That was what I recalled about the openrc discussion too. It is coming but just not sure when. Me, I'm not switching until it starts getting closer to that time. It, like some of the newer versions of portage, appears to be stable and is used by many people but is not marked stable yet. Both of those sort of confuse me sometimes. You're mixing two different definitions of stable. Portage 2.2 is certainly reliable, but it is anything but stable with a new version coming out every day at the moment,. Well, I run unstable portage here and it seems stable and reliable to me. I know they are adding things and fixing things pretty regular but most packages do that anyway and a lot of them are marked as stable. I read somewhere that the reason some of the later versions of portage are not stable is not because the new ones are not ready but because they want more testing of the old versions. Not sure why that is tho. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
On 22 Oct 2010, at 21:32, Alan McKinnon wrote: ... Did you and I read the same mail thread? I read all of it - did you? Apparently you have poorer reading comprehension that I do: That Gentoo-dev thread was 3 or 4 months ago, and I haven't read all of it today. I would stand by my advice: ... I would discourage anyone in stable from migrating to Openrc unless they need to, or unless they're deciding to run entirely ~arch packages on their system. From my understanding I would wait and see, and migrate when the devs decide the time is right for a mass migration of stable users. This is all totally irrelevant: That's a straw man argument. Roy left Gentoo because of conflicts between his wish to be 100% POSIX compliant ... Roy did not leave openrc development becuase it's a lost cause and it has nothing to do with what I said. My advice was made in response to Neil's comment: you may as well do the upgrade when you feel like it rather that when the devs decide to flip a keyword. I've snipped that to an even tighter crop, so that you don't miss what he said. Can I summarise my advice as: Don't migrate a single package to ~arch just for the fun of it. ?? I'm pretty sure you yourself have said in the past to either run stable or ~arch, but not to mess around with unmasking the odd single or couple of packages here or there. I agree with you, on this occasion. When the devs decide to flip a keyword then the documentation for the Openrc migration will be at its best. The migration will be fully supported for stable users, and there will be lots of discussion about it here. It will be the best time to make the switch. Stroller. PS: please don't CC me on messages to the list.
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
Apparently, though unproven, at 23:50 on Friday 22 October 2010, Zeerak
Mustafa Waseem did opine thusly:
It's openrc-${PV}+1 - there's no question about that.
Until someone actually ponies up and commits something other than openrc
to the tree, it's gonna stay on openrc.
I think you misunderstand what ~arch means.
I'll gladly be explained, just in case I should have it wrong. :-)
What I meant however was that there has been talk of starting a migration
of ~arch users to devicekit when it is deemed ready. As far as I remember
no conclusion was brought to that discussion other than openrc being moved
inhouse and seeing how that went. So the ball is still in the air as far
as openrc and a replacement goes, to my understanding.
~arch is the collection of unstable ebuilds in portage; stuff that is good
enough for a release but not yet fully tested within a Gentoo system. With
enough successful feedback from users, it is marked stable and moves to
arch.
~arch is not experimental, stuff planned for the future, someone's wicked
overlay or anything else other than stable releases in a *gentoo* test phase,
i.e. it's not so much the software that's being tested but the ebuild.
devicekit stands very little chance of ever being the default. It depends on
dbus and expat. Remember hal and all the crap that came along with it? Gentoo
is not Ubuntu or Fedora, it is installable on anything from ARM phones to
IBM's gigantic hard iron. Why on earth would anyone mandate dbus to be
compulsory on a headless server for example?
If you want to know what the future holds for Gentoo, best not to listen much
to a bunch of dudes rambling on gentoo-dev and blogs. They're just talking,
and talk is cheap. If you want to know what the future holds for @system and
the toolchain, vapier is a good one to listen to. So's the council, GLEPs and
whatever happens in voting. The kong thread that's been mentioned in this
thread has a gem of a quote from vapier, something like:
People saw Roy moving away from Gentoo, and freaked out.
That's it, nothing more. Some dudes freaked out.
Besides, lookee here:
nazgul ~ # eix -e devicekit
* sys-apps/devicekit
Available versions: (~)003 {doc}
Homepage:http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/DeviceKit
Description: D-Bus abstraction for enumerating devices and
listening for device events using udev
nazgul ~ # eix -e dbus-glib
[I] dev-libs/dbus-glib
Available versions: 0.86 (~)0.88 {bash-completion debug doc static-libs
test}
Installed versions: 0.88(00:25:33 12/10/10)(bash-completion -debug -doc
-static-libs -test)
Homepage:http://dbus.freedesktop.org/
Description: D-Bus bindings for glib
nazgul ~ # eix systemd
No matches found.
devicekit has one version (003) and systemd doesn't even have an ebuild in the
tree. That system is probably sitting about where openrc was when Roy had
gotten to 20% of where he eventually took it.
openrc works, it has three outstanding edge case blocker bugs. What possible
technical reason is there to go chasing butterflies down some totally unproven
path?
--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
Apparently, though unproven, at 00:13 on Saturday 23 October 2010, Neil Bothwick did opine thusly: On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 15:52:18 -0500, Dale wrote: That was what I recalled about the openrc discussion too. It is coming but just not sure when. Me, I'm not switching until it starts getting closer to that time. It, like some of the newer versions of portage, appears to be stable and is used by many people but is not marked stable yet. Both of those sort of confuse me sometimes. You're mixing two different definitions of stable. Portage 2.2 is certainly reliable, but it is anything but stable with a new version coming out every day at the moment,. I'm waiting for tomorrow when my regularly scheduled portage update hits _rc100. I guess we'll see then if portage has any rollover bugs in it's version number code or not :-) -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
Apparently, though unproven, at 00:26 on Saturday 23 October 2010, Dale did opine thusly: Neil Bothwick wrote: On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 15:52:18 -0500, Dale wrote: That was what I recalled about the openrc discussion too. It is coming but just not sure when. Me, I'm not switching until it starts getting closer to that time. It, like some of the newer versions of portage, appears to be stable and is used by many people but is not marked stable yet. Both of those sort of confuse me sometimes. You're mixing two different definitions of stable. Portage 2.2 is certainly reliable, but it is anything but stable with a new version coming out every day at the moment,. Well, I run unstable portage here and it seems stable and reliable to me. I know they are adding things and fixing things pretty regular but most packages do that anyway and a lot of them are marked as stable. I read somewhere that the reason some of the later versions of portage are not stable is not because the new ones are not ready but because they want more testing of the old versions. Not sure why that is tho. Dale :-) :-) $PORTDIR/profiles/package.mask: # Zac Medico zmed...@gentoo.org (05 Jan 2009) # Portage 2.2 is masked due to known bugs in the # package sets and preserve-libs features. See # bug #253802 for details. =sys-apps/portage-2.2_pre The old message for =sys-apps/portage-2.2_rc1 said something different, like to enable further testing of the 2.1.6 series -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
Apparently, though unproven, at 00:43 on Saturday 23 October 2010, Stroller did opine thusly: On 22 Oct 2010, at 21:32, Alan McKinnon wrote: ... Did you and I read the same mail thread? I read all of it - did you? Apparently you have poorer reading comprehension that I do: That Gentoo-dev thread was 3 or 4 months ago, and I haven't read all of it today. I saw that. I thought it odd you would cite the thread in your reasoning right after saying you hadn't read all of it. I wanted you to see the strangeness of that on your own. I would stand by my advice: ... I would discourage anyone in stable from migrating to Openrc unless they need to, or unless they're deciding to run entirely ~arch packages on their system. From my understanding I would wait and see, and migrate when the devs decide the time is right for a mass migration of stable users. That's fine. people running stable should stick with stable for the most part. See below. This is all totally irrelevant: That's a straw man argument. Roy left Gentoo because of conflicts between his wish to be 100% POSIX compliant ... Roy did not leave openrc development becuase it's a lost cause and it has nothing to do with what I said. And your response now has nothing to do with what I said. I wasn't commenting on the merits of migrating, I was commenting on you quoting Roy: Roy is the author, his own words: The fact that several people said they would attempt a stable push and then gave up (I was one - lol) says quite a bit really. Now why would you have quoted that? I can see only one reason - the author hints at it being not good enough therefore you should look long and hard before using it. I pointed out, correctly I believe, that that is irrelevant. Roy left Gentoo and openrc because he couldn't have his way re POSIX compliance. That's a straw man - setting up a weak disrelated argument to somehow prove your point later. It's fallacious. My advice was made in response to Neil's comment: you may as well do the upgrade when you feel like it rather that when the devs decide to flip a keyword. I've snipped that to an even tighter crop, so that you don't miss what he said. And you snipped out the very quote from Roy above I was commenting on. I saw that. So I put it back. Can I summarise my advice as: Don't migrate a single package to ~arch just for the fun of it. ?? I'm pretty sure you yourself have said in the past to either run stable or ~arch, but not to mess around with unmasking the odd single or couple of packages here or there. I agree with you, on this occasion. I never said in this thread that anyone should not do that. I generally do advise people to stick with one or the other by and large. When the devs decide to flip a keyword then the documentation for the Openrc migration will be at its best. The migration will be fully supported for stable users, and there will be lots of discussion about it here. It will be the best time to make the switch. Stroller. PS: please don't CC me on messages to the list. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
[gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
Hello, Well here it seems that openrc is going ~arch http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-688090.html So has it been decided that openrc is the way forward? Any caveats with openrc we should be aware of? James
Re: [gentoo-user] baselayout -- openrc ?
That post is 2 years old. IMHO something that's not been stabalized in that long of a period of time is worth waiting for unless you full on ~arch already. That said, I use Calculate linux which is mostly stable but has OpenRC by default and I don't have any issues. On 10/22/10 12:02, James wrote: Hello, Well here it seems that openrc is going ~arch http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-688090.html So has it been decided that openrc is the way forward? Any caveats with openrc we should be aware of? James -- Kind Regards, Beau Henderson
