Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Pinging two devices on the same IP address
On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:03:22 -0300 Daniel da Veiga [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Obviously I was wrong. No point in arguing that. Meh, I don't see why we should all be held to formalized terms for everything. Understanding each other is the important thing, in my mind. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Pinging two devices on the same IP address
On Tuesday 23 October 2007, Dan Farrell wrote: On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 18:12:07 -0400 Mark Shields [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Forwarding echo request/response packets (ICMP), maybe? Yeah, that's what I thought, too. But wouldn't that require an IP? Or at least -- at the very least -- a MAC address for Ethernet-layer transmission of some kind? Thanks guys. The AP has a reserved static LAN IP address on the router (10.10.10.13). It also has a MAC. So it is simply a matter of forwarding (all) ICMP echo-reply packets that arrive from the Internet to that LAN address. (On this implementation the AP is itself a Linksys wireless router). I wonder if I can play tricks with ping's ICMP headers to differentiate between them as they come into the router, or something clever that I haven't yet figured out. Any ideas? -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Pinging two devices on the same IP address
On Wednesday 24 October 2007, Mick wrote: Thanks guys. The AP has a reserved static LAN IP address on the router (10.10.10.13). It also has a MAC. So it is simply a matter of forwarding (all) ICMP echo-reply packets that arrive from the Internet to that LAN address. (On this implementation the AP is itself a Linksys wireless router). I wonder if I can play tricks with ping's ICMP headers to differentiate between them as they come into the router, or something clever that I haven't yet figured out. Any ideas? Disclaimer: I have not tested what follows. Can't you just use traceroute? If you run tracert from windows, it should already work, since it uses ICMP echo requests. Otherwise, you should open UDP port 33434 on the router. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Pinging two devices on the same IP address
On 23 Oct 2007, at 22:27, Daniel da Veiga wrote: ... I really don't get how you forward something to an Access Point, isn't this device like a dumb hub on your wireless network? Mine doesn't have an IP, nor MAC or anything that could identify it on the network. You're making assumptions that all APs are like your own. Your AP would appear to be operating as a transparent network bridge, but others operate as NAT routers. And a device operating as a dumb bridge can still have MAC IP addresses assigned to it, should the manufacturer wish. I'm actually a little surprised to hear that yours doesn't - how does one change the SSID wireless encryption key, if the AP has no IP address to connect to? Stroller. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Pinging two devices on the same IP address
On Wednesday 24 October 2007, Etaoin Shrdlu wrote: On Wednesday 24 October 2007, Mick wrote: Thanks guys. The AP has a reserved static LAN IP address on the router (10.10.10.13). It also has a MAC. So it is simply a matter of forwarding (all) ICMP echo-reply packets that arrive from the Internet to that LAN address. (On this implementation the AP is itself a Linksys wireless router). I wonder if I can play tricks with ping's ICMP headers to differentiate between them as they come into the router, or something clever that I haven't yet figured out. Any ideas? Disclaimer: I have not tested what follows. Can't you just use traceroute? If you run tracert from windows, it should already work, since it uses ICMP echo requests. Otherwise, you should open UDP port 33434 on the router. I don't have access to a MS Windows machine right now, but using mtr I get: [snip . . .] 23. XX-XX-XXX-XX.dhcp.kgpt.tn.cha 6.7%15 145.5 145.4 143.2 146.9 1.3 24. ??? 100.0150.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 25. XX.XX.XXX.XXX 6.7%15 155.9 156.2 154.2 159.1 1.3 It seems that hop 23 is the dhcp server of the ISP. Hop 25. is the public IP address of the router. I assume that hop 24. is the cable modem which acts as a bridge(?). Since the AP is within the LAN and the connection to it is NAT'ed, it is not shown above. Am I correct in my thinking? -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Pinging two devices on the same IP address
On 10/24/07, Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm actually a little surprised to hear that yours doesn't - how does one change the SSID wireless encryption key, if the AP has no IP address to connect to? Stroller. Here at one of the University labs there is a REALLY old 802.11b 3COM AP that is only configurable by a (lousy) software running on Windows. It's really simple. It's so hard dealing with it, 'cause it doesn't even have a power slot. It uses PoE, so the only connector is the Ethernet one. :-/ Regards, Saffi -- *Ricardo Saffi Marques* Laboratório de Administração e Segurança de Sistemas (LAS/IC) Universidade Estadual de Campinas (UNICAMP) *Cell:* +55 (19) 8128-0435 *Skype:* ricardo_saffi_marques *Website:* *http://www.rsaffi.com*
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Pinging two devices on the same IP address
On Wednesday 24 October 2007, Mick wrote: I don't have access to a MS Windows machine right now, but using mtr I get: [snip . . .] 23. XX-XX-XXX-XX.dhcp.kgpt.tn.cha 6.7%15 145.5 145.4 143.2 146.9 1.3 24. ??? 100.0150.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 25. XX.XX.XXX.XXX 6.7%15 155.9 156.2 154.2 159.1 1.3 It seems that hop 23 is the dhcp server of the ISP. Hop 25. is the public IP address of the router. I assume that hop 24. is the cable modem which acts as a bridge(?). Since the AP is within the LAN and the connection to it is NAT'ed, it is not shown above. Am I correct in my thinking? From what I can see, and considering that I don't know how much traceroute-like mtr is and I don't know your setup, you should be correct. The idea is that traceroute should reach the AP if everything is working, it should stop at the router if the AP is not working, and at the hop before if the router is not working. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Pinging two devices on the same IP address
On 10/24/07, Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 23 Oct 2007, at 22:27, Daniel da Veiga wrote: ... I really don't get how you forward something to an Access Point, isn't this device like a dumb hub on your wireless network? Mine doesn't have an IP, nor MAC or anything that could identify it on the network. You're making assumptions that all APs are like your own. Your AP would appear to be operating as a transparent network bridge, but others operate as NAT routers. And a device operating as a dumb bridge can still have MAC IP addresses assigned to it, should the manufacturer wish. I'm actually a little surprised to hear that yours doesn't - how does one change the SSID wireless encryption key, if the AP has no IP address to connect to? Simple home APs act just like that, no address for configs or anything, just a bridge to another network. These devices have no config at all, they simply create an SSID with no encryption to a wired network. What he got is a WIRELESS ROUTER that acts like an Access Point, providing a gateway and forwarding, linked to another router. I could have guessed, but there was no info about that in his first post, so I just guessed it was a simple Access Point. -- Daniel da Veiga Filosofia de TI: Programadores de verdade consideram o conceito o que você vê é o que você tem tão ruim em editores de texto quanto em mulheres. Não, o programador de verdade quer um editor de texto do estilo você pediu, você levou - complicado, indecifrável, poderoso, impiedoso, perigoso. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Pinging two devices on the same IP address
On 24 Oct 2007, at 15:41, Daniel da Veiga wrote: ... Simple home APs act just like that, no address for configs or anything, just a bridge to another network. These devices have no config at all, they simply create an SSID with no encryption to a wired network. What he got is a WIRELESS ROUTER that acts like an Access Point, providing a gateway and forwarding, linked to another router... Where do you find this particular definition of an access point? I would have believed the expression wireless access point to include either class of device within its definition. I should add that there are some APish devices which bridge - i.e. they do not route or NAT - yet still have a MAC address IP for administrative purposes. Stroller. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Pinging two devices on the same IP address
On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 19:28:16 +0100 Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 24 Oct 2007, at 15:41, Daniel da Veiga wrote: ... Simple home APs act just like that, no address for configs or anything, just a bridge to another network. These devices have no config at all, they simply create an SSID with no encryption to a wired network. I had a belkin AP that I think was like this. The windows-only control program (wasn't running wine at the time) was a big reason I will probaby never buy one again. Once you build a real router, you never go back... What he got is a WIRELESS ROUTER that acts like an Access Point, providing a gateway and forwarding, linked to another router... Where do you find this particular definition of an access point? I would have believed the expression wireless access point to include either class of device within its definition. I agree. I think 'AP' has come to mean, perhaps a trifle informally, simply a device to allow wireless access to a wired network. I should add that there are some APish devices which bridge - i.e. they do not route or NAT - yet still have a MAC address IP for administrative purposes. Stroller. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Pinging two devices on the same IP address
On 10/24/07, Dan Farrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 19:28:16 +0100 Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 24 Oct 2007, at 15:41, Daniel da Veiga wrote: ... Simple home APs act just like that, no address for configs or anything, just a bridge to another network. These devices have no config at all, they simply create an SSID with no encryption to a wired network. I had a belkin AP that I think was like this. The windows-only control program (wasn't running wine at the time) was a big reason I will probaby never buy one again. Once you build a real router, you never go back... What he got is a WIRELESS ROUTER that acts like an Access Point, providing a gateway and forwarding, linked to another router... Where do you find this particular definition of an access point? I would have believed the expression wireless access point to include either class of device within its definition. I agree. I think 'AP' has come to mean, perhaps a trifle informally, simply a device to allow wireless access to a wired network. Exactly, at least where I live, if I go shopping for wireless devices, APs are mostly this, and wireless routers are APs with routing and forwarding. Its not like I was trying to define it, its simply how its referred in some online stores, and thus I assumed that was the case for the OP. Obviously I was wrong. No point in arguing that. -- Daniel da Veiga Filosofia de TI: Programadores de verdade consideram o conceito o que você vê é o que você tem tão ruim em editores de texto quanto em mulheres. Não, o programador de verdade quer um editor de texto do estilo você pediu, você levou - complicado, indecifrável, poderoso, impiedoso, perigoso. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] [OT] Pinging two devices on the same IP address
Hi All, I am trying to troubleshoot two devices both behind the same IP address: Device A: a router Device B: a wireless access point The network looks like this: Internet modem router AP Currently I have set up a firewall rule in the router to forward all pings to the AP. The logic is that if the ping returns then both router and AP are up. That's alright when both devices are working. However, if I am interested to know which one of the two has failed, a different system is needed. Any idea how I could ping them both separately? Is there a clever firewall rule I could concoct? -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Pinging two devices on the same IP address
On 10/23/07, Mick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, I am trying to troubleshoot two devices both behind the same IP address: Device A: a router Device B: a wireless access point The network looks like this: Internet modem router AP Currently I have set up a firewall rule in the router to forward all pings to the AP. The logic is that if the ping returns then both router and AP are up. That's alright when both devices are working. However, if I am interested to know which one of the two has failed, a different system is needed. Any idea how I could ping them both separately? Is there a clever firewall rule I could concoct? I really don't get how you forward something to an Access Point, isn't this device like a dumb hub on your wireless network? Mine doesn't have an IP, nor MAC or anything that could identify it on the network. I would also be interested if something like that is possible... -- Daniel da Veiga Filosofia de TI: Programadores de verdade consideram o conceito o que você vê é o que você tem tão ruim em editores de texto quanto em mulheres. Não, o programador de verdade quer um editor de texto do estilo você pediu, você levou - complicado, indecifrável, poderoso, impiedoso, perigoso. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Pinging two devices on the same IP address
On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 18:27:10 -0300 Daniel da Veiga [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I really don't get how you forward something to an Access Point, isn't this device like a dumb hub on your wireless network? Mine doesn't have an IP, nor MAC or anything that could identify it on the network. Now I am confused. How are you forwarding these pings as you say, Mick? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Pinging two devices on the same IP address
On 10/23/07, Dan Farrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 18:27:10 -0300 Daniel da Veiga [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I really don't get how you forward something to an Access Point, isn't this device like a dumb hub on your wireless network? Mine doesn't have an IP, nor MAC or anything that could identify it on the network. Now I am confused. How are you forwarding these pings as you say, Mick? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list Forwarding echo request/response packets (ICMP), maybe? -- - Mark Shields
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Pinging two devices on the same IP address
On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 18:12:07 -0400 Mark Shields [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Forwarding echo request/response packets (ICMP), maybe? Yeah, that's what I thought, too. But wouldn't that require an IP? Or at least -- at the very least -- a MAC address for Ethernet-layer transmission of some kind? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
