Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On Tuesday, 1 August 2023 19:51:26 BST Wols Lists wrote: > So if Dovecot is serving IMAP4 to your workstation, the emails should be > in dovecot, and cached on your workstation. For my setup, they're stored > in dovecot, and cached in thunderbird ... Almost. KMail has a 'Download messages for offline use' option, which I've had set until now. > > My backup method is simple: I archive KMail's emails daily to a local > > disk, > > then shut the system down on a Sunday to back up the entire system to an > > external USB-3 disk. > > If kmail is caching them, chances are they're stashed away in the .kmail > directory or wherever, in some standard format, and you can just back > that up. Yes, I'm doing that. It now takes longer to make the backup because the emails have to be fetched from the server. > > The server is taken down on a Saturday for complete system backup, to > > another USB-3 disk. > > Perfect, they're now backed up all over the place :-) Quite so. :-) -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On 31/07/2023 16:55, Peter Humphrey wrote: On Monday, 31 July 2023 15:19:22 BST Wols Lists wrote: The big question that needs answering is "Are you storing your emails in dovecot, or in kmail?" In KMail. My server has fetchmail -> postfix -> dovecot. Fetchmail collects POP3 emails from my ISP and forwards it to postfix, and dovecot serves IMAP4 to my workstation. So if Dovecot is serving IMAP4 to your workstation, the emails should be in dovecot, and cached on your workstation. For my setup, they're stored in dovecot, and cached in thunderbird ... My backup method is simple: I archive KMail's emails daily to a local disk, then shut the system down on a Sunday to back up the entire system to an external USB-3 disk. If kmail is caching them, chances are they're stashed away in the .kmail directory or wherever, in some standard format, and you can just back that up. The server is taken down on a Saturday for complete system backup, to another USB-3 disk. Perfect, they're now backed up all over the place :-) Cheers, Wol
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On Tuesday, 1 August 2023 11:42:55 BST Michael wrote: > The idea being to separate the SMTP server and corresponding authentication > credentials you may send messages with, from the Sent Folder(s) each sent > messages is saved in, while using different 'From' email account identities. It seems I have a non-standard use of identities: I use them to include different personal details in my signature, not for separate personas in different cases. -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On Tuesday, 1 August 2023 10:53:15 BST Peter Humphrey wrote: > On Monday, 31 July 2023 19:17:17 BST Michael wrote: > > On Monday, 31 July 2023 19:13:19 BST Neil Bothwick wrote: > > > On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 18:26:03 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote: > > > > I thought I should be able to specify where outgoing mail should be > > > > put, but I can't find it now. > > > > > > That's a setting in the mail client. > > > > Kmail Settings > Accounts > Identities > Advanced > Sent-mail folder. > > Ah. I didn't expect to find it under Identities. Odd. The idea being to separate the SMTP server and corresponding authentication credentials you may send messages with, from the Sent Folder(s) each sent messages is saved in, while using different 'From' email account identities. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On Monday, 31 July 2023 18:57:59 BST Michael wrote: > On Monday, 31 July 2023 17:25:20 BST Peter Humphrey wrote: > > On Monday, 31 July 2023 17:03:49 BST Peter Humphrey wrote: > > > I already have it set up, so I hope I'd only have to deselect "Download > > > all > > > messages for offline use" and then drag the locally stored emails to the > > > IMAP Account, which is shown at the top of the folder list, attached. > > > Does that create a copy of the local directory structure? > > > > Hah! I just tried the folder-move function in KMail, and it crashed. 79 > > emails and 2.2MB. > > I have used Kmail to download large-ish IMAP folders (4000+ messages and > ~800MB) to local folders, then upload them to different remote IMAP account/ > folder. > > It has worked reliably here and ought to work in your case too, if: It works here too now. I don't know what caused that one blip. -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On Monday, 31 July 2023 19:17:17 BST Michael wrote: > On Monday, 31 July 2023 19:13:19 BST Neil Bothwick wrote: > > On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 18:26:03 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote: > > > I thought I should be able to specify where outgoing mail should be > > > put, but I can't find it now. > > > > That's a setting in the mail client. > > Kmail Settings > Accounts > Identities > Advanced > Sent-mail folder. Ah. I didn't expect to find it under Identities. Odd. > Also set the Outgoing Account at the same time to configure your SMTP. Of course. Long since done. -- Regards, Peter.
RE: [gentoo-user] Email clients
> Jul 31, 2023 13:23:21 Matt Connell : > > > On Mon, 2023-07-31 at 20:16 +0300, Alexe Stefan wrote: > >>> Normally I would be in the chorus of "why do I need a whole entire > >>> web engine for an email client" but I'm also in the group of people > >>> who knows full well what the answer is. > >> > >> What is the answer? > >> Mutt doesn't need a web engine. > > > > For the reason that you just demonstrated for the class: HTML emails. > > > > Now, your simple mail shows just fine in a plain text only mail > > client, but in my world, and I'd wager most people's world, handling > > HTML messages (which includes CSS for legibility) is a necessity to > > some varying degree. > > > > Don't get me wrong, I'm "team plaintext" all day every day but I'm not > > going to make my life more difficult on principles. There are hills > > worth dying on but this isn't mine. > Iirc, you can setup mutt to open html emails either in a web browser or with > something like w3m. There's no need for a web engine in a mail client when > you have a perfectly workable web engine in the browser. You can easily reply > to html mail in plain text either way, and most html mail are marketing or > newsletter emails from companies where replying isn't needed anyways. > That is totally not true any more unfortunately. The vast majority of email clients and web interfaces used by the technopeasants send HTML mail by default. So unless you're one of the lucky few who exchange emails only with fellow hackers you can expect to have to deal with a lot of HTML mail. Still, you don't technically need to have the HTML engine *in* the client itself... But that does make opening the silly things a bit quicker. LMP
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On Monday, 31 July 2023 19:13:19 BST Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 18:26:03 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote: > > I thought I should be able to specify where outgoing mail should be > > put, but I can't find it now. > > That's a setting in the mail client. Kmail Settings > Accounts > Identities > Advanced > Sent-mail folder. Also set the Outgoing Account at the same time to configure your SMTP. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 17:03:49 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote: > What should I do about backups of the server? Don't bother, hard disks are dead reliable these days ;-) -- Neil Bothwick .sig a .sog of sixpence. pgp0RnKsAawdG.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 18:26:03 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote: > I thought I should be able to specify where outgoing mail should be > put, but I can't find it now. That's a setting in the mail client. -- Neil Bothwick IBM: Itty Bitty Mentality pgp1DMtkh7ZVh.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On Monday, 31 July 2023 17:25:20 BST Peter Humphrey wrote: > On Monday, 31 July 2023 17:03:49 BST Peter Humphrey wrote: > > I already have it set up, so I hope I'd only have to deselect "Download > > all > > messages for offline use" and then drag the locally stored emails to the > > IMAP Account, which is shown at the top of the folder list, attached. > > Does that create a copy of the local directory structure? > > Hah! I just tried the folder-move function in KMail, and it crashed. 79 > emails and 2.2MB. I have used Kmail to download large-ish IMAP folders (4000+ messages and ~800MB) to local folders, then upload them to different remote IMAP account/ folder. It has worked reliably here and ought to work in your case too, if: - Your Internet connectivity is stable and the bandwidth is > than dial up, or you work locally with dovecot. - You create the local/remote Kmail folders first and then copy messages over in small numbers. About 50-100 at a time should do it, depending on size of attachments. - You remain patient until the messages have downloaded, but then you really remain patient until akonadi finishes indexing them. This may take longer than you wish.[1] - Do not start with another folder, until the current folder migration has completed successfully and you can verify the content of at least a sample of messages has landed where you expect it to be. [1] Sometimes synchronising a large number of messages/folders will appear to be stuck, because Kmail won't display it. A workaround I use is to close Kmail and run in a terminal: akonadictl fsck akonadictl vacuum waiting for each command to finish, before I restart Kmail. This is not a regular occurrence, but when Kmail misbehaves the above forces a sync so the next batch of emails can be copied over. HTH. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On 2023.07.31 13:23, Matt Connell wrote: On Mon, 2023-07-31 at 20:16 +0300, Alexe Stefan wrote: > > Normally I would be in the chorus of "why do I need a whole entire > > web > > engine for an email client" but I'm also in the group of people who > > knows full well what the answer is. > > What is the answer? > Mutt doesn't need a web engine. For the reason that you just demonstrated for the class: HTML emails. Now, your simple mail shows just fine in a plain text only mail client, but in my world, and I'd wager most people's world, handling HTML messages (which includes CSS for legibility) is a necessity to some varying degree. Don't get me wrong, I'm "team plaintext" all day every day but I'm not going to make my life more difficult on principles. There are hills worth dying on but this isn't mine. I haven't tried it in a while, but Carbonyl (https://github.com/fathyb/carbonyl) is a web browser that runs in a terminal. I wonder if it could be used for a text based email client to actually display HTML emails, without the overhead of one of the big graphics libs.
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On Monday, 31 July 2023 17:25:20 BST Peter Humphrey wrote: > On Monday, 31 July 2023 17:03:49 BST Peter Humphrey wrote: > > I already have it set up, so I hope I'd only have to deselect "Download > > all > > messages for offline use" and then drag the locally stored emails to the > > IMAP Account, which is shown at the top of the folder list, attached. > > Does that create a copy of the local directory structure? > > Hah! I just tried the folder-move function in KMail, and it crashed. 79 > emails and 2.2MB. It wasn't too hard after all, mostly. I still have sent-mail, outbox, wastebin, drafts and templates locally. I thought I should be able to specify where outgoing mail should be put, but I can't find it now. -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On Mon, 2023-07-31 at 20:16 +0300, Alexe Stefan wrote: > > Normally I would be in the chorus of "why do I need a whole entire > > web > > engine for an email client" but I'm also in the group of people who > > knows full well what the answer is. > > What is the answer? > Mutt doesn't need a web engine. For the reason that you just demonstrated for the class: HTML emails. Now, your simple mail shows just fine in a plain text only mail client, but in my world, and I'd wager most people's world, handling HTML messages (which includes CSS for legibility) is a necessity to some varying degree. Don't get me wrong, I'm "team plaintext" all day every day but I'm not going to make my life more difficult on principles. There are hills worth dying on but this isn't mine.
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
> > Normally I would be in the chorus of "why do I need a whole entire web > engine for an email client" but I'm also in the group of people who > knows full well what the answer is. > What is the answer? Mutt doesn't need a web engine. >
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On Mon, 2023-07-31 at 17:14 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote: > I see it's a gnome program and has 17 new dependencies (to this box). Unfortunately one of them is webkit-gtk, which, if you don't have it already, is a compilation lift. Normally I would be in the chorus of "why do I need a whole entire web engine for an email client" but I'm also in the group of people who knows full well what the answer is.
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On Monday, 31 July 2023 17:03:49 BST Peter Humphrey wrote: > I already have it set up, so I hope I'd only have to deselect "Download all > messages for offline use" and then drag the locally stored emails to the IMAP > Account, which is shown at the top of the folder list, attached. Does that > create a copy of the local directory structure? Hah! I just tried the folder-move function in KMail, and it crashed. 79 emails and 2.2MB. -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On Monday, 31 July 2023 02:12:00 BST Matt Connell wrote: > On Sat, 2023-07-29 at 01:29 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote: > > I've been a loyal user of KMail for many years. (Loyal? Masochistic > > might be a better word.) It suits me exactly - or it would if it were > > reliable. It isn't, though, which drives me to consider alternatives. > > To present an alternative that I haven't seen mentioned in the thread: > Evolution. > > - Fully featured (calendar, contacts, tasks, memos) > - Oauth2 support > - Exchange Web Services support > - sane defaults > - sqlite database storage (as opposed to Akonadi's mysql) > - active community mailing list. I'll have a look at it - thanks. I see it's a gnome program and has 17 new dependencies (to this box). -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On Monday, 31 July 2023 14:26:16 BST Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 13:33:18 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote: > > > > But you're running the IMAP server locally, so what difference does > > > > it make? > > > > It's just the way things have 'just growed'. I could start again with > > the server keeping the mails itself, but it's a good deal of work. > > Not really. Once you have set up the server and a folder for it in KMail, > you just move your mails from the local folder to the IMAP one. Is that all there is to it? I already have it set up, so I hope I'd only have to deselect "Download all messages for offline use" and then drag the locally stored emails to the IMAP Account, which is shown at the top of the folder list, attached. Does that create a copy of the local directory structure? What should I do about backups of the server? -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On Monday, 31 July 2023 15:19:22 BST Wols Lists wrote: > The big question that needs answering is "Are you storing your emails in > dovecot, or in kmail?" In KMail. My server has fetchmail -> postfix -> dovecot. Fetchmail collects POP3 emails from my ISP and forwards it to postfix, and dovecot serves IMAP4 to my workstation. My backup method is simple: I archive KMail's emails daily to a local disk, then shut the system down on a Sunday to back up the entire system to an external USB-3 disk. The server is taken down on a Saturday for complete system backup, to another USB-3 disk. -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On 31/07/2023 13:33, Peter Humphrey wrote: On Monday, 31 July 2023 08:34:05 BST Wols Lists wrote: On 31/07/2023 00:11, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Sun, 30 Jul 2023 23:53:39 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote: ... I use Claws 99% of the time, but occasionally run Thunderbird. Neither program cares that I have also used the other to read my mail. Ah, but you're using IMAP4 and leaving your emails on the server. I don't want to do that. But you're running the IMAP server locally, so what difference does it make? It's just the way things have 'just growed'. I could start again with the server keeping the mails itself, but it's a good deal of work. My server IS my workstation. And if *you* don't want to leave your mail "centrally", why are you running a dovecot server? Because KMail is horribly buggy with POP3 and my ISP doesn't offer IMAP4. I'm trying to get my head round your setup then. My setup is simple. I couldn't get postfix/fetchmail to behave, so my workstation/server runs dovecot. Thunderbird (on my server) has an account pointing at my ISP, that retrieves all my mail and moves it into dovecot. Am I right you've got postfix/fetchmail working correctly? All you need to do is make it chuck it into dovecot on your server (or not even that). But the point is, if you have a working instance of dovecot, and you are using kmail/imap4 to read your emails FROM DOVECOT, just point claws at dovecot as well. Or are you using kmail/pop3 to pull your emails from dovecot into your local kmail instance? The big question that needs answering is "Are you storing your emails in dovecot, or in kmail?" Cheers, Wol
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 13:33:18 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote: > > > But you're running the IMAP server locally, so what difference does > > > it make? > > It's just the way things have 'just growed'. I could start again with > the server keeping the mails itself, but it's a good deal of work. Not really. Once you have set up the server and a folder for it in KMail, you just move your mails from the local folder to the IMAP one. -- Neil Bothwick I can't walk on water, but I can stagger on alcohol. pgpZ98bVaLEHH.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On Monday, 31 July 2023 08:34:05 BST Wols Lists wrote: > On 31/07/2023 00:11, Neil Bothwick wrote: > > On Sun, 30 Jul 2023 23:53:39 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote: > >>> ... I use Claws 99% of the time, but occasionally run Thunderbird. > >>> Neither program cares that I have also used the other to read my > >>> mail. > >> > >> Ah, but you're using IMAP4 and leaving your emails on the server. I > >> don't want to do that. > > > > But you're running the IMAP server locally, so what difference does it > > make? It's just the way things have 'just growed'. I could start again with the server keeping the mails itself, but it's a good deal of work. > My server IS my workstation. And if *you* don't want to leave your mail > "centrally", why are you running a dovecot server? Because KMail is horribly buggy with POP3 and my ISP doesn't offer IMAP4. -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On 31/07/2023 00:11, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Sun, 30 Jul 2023 23:53:39 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote: ... I use Claws 99% of the time, but occasionally run Thunderbird. Neither program cares that I have also used the other to read my mail. Ah, but you're using IMAP4 and leaving your emails on the server. I don't want to do that. But you're running the IMAP server locally, so what difference does it make? My server IS my workstation. And if *you* don't want to leave your mail "centrally", why are you running a dovecot server? Cheers, Wol
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On Sat, 2023-07-29 at 01:29 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote: > I've been a loyal user of KMail for many years. (Loyal? Masochistic > might be a better word.) It suits me exactly - or it would if it were > reliable. It isn't, though, which drives me to consider alternatives. To present an alternative that I haven't seen mentioned in the thread: Evolution. - Fully featured (calendar, contacts, tasks, memos) - Oauth2 support - Exchange Web Services support - sane defaults - sqlite database storage (as opposed to Akonadi's mysql) - active community mailing list.
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On Sun, 30 Jul 2023 23:53:39 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote: > > ... I use Claws 99% of the time, but occasionally run Thunderbird. > > Neither program cares that I have also used the other to read my > > mail. > > Ah, but you're using IMAP4 and leaving your emails on the server. I > don't want to do that. But you're running the IMAP server locally, so what difference does it make? -- Neil Bothwick Feminism: the radical notion that women are people. pgpXP4ZTsg_k_.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On Sunday, 30 July 2023 20:02:47 BST Neil Bothwick wrote: > ... I use Claws 99% of the time, but occasionally run Thunderbird. Neither > program cares that I have also used the other to read my mail. Ah, but you're using IMAP4 and leaving your emails on the server. I don't want to do that. -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On Sat, 29 Jul 2023 12:23:47 +0100, Wols Lists wrote: > > Hm. I already have Dovecot on my LAN server, because KMail is > > horribly buggy with POP3, which is what my ISP offers. So fetchmail > > -> postfix -> dovecot became necessary before I could use IMAP4 in > > KMail. > > > > All incoming emails are transferred to my workstation because I like > > to have everything in one place and one backup. > > > > Maybe I'll stick with KMail a bit longer... > > Well then, install Claws and try it - just point it at Dovecot. Okay, I > use Thunderbird, but there's no reason I have to - I run about 4 > different instances of TB, all pointing at my Dovecot server, and all > mail is visible on all my computers - the server/workstation, my old > laptop, my new laptop, my wife's laptop when I borrow it, ... Similarly, I use Claws 99% of the time, but occasionally run Thunderbird. Neither program cares that I have also used the other to read my mail. -- Neil Bothwick "If Micro built cars, the worlds population would be in decline" pgp4UzDS8bqdk.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On Sunday, 30 July 2023 13:07:52 BST Frank Steinmetzger wrote: > When I had kmail issues back in the day of early akonadi times (remember > Alan’s thread about data loss from then?), I tried out mutt and I’ve been > using it ever since. I configured it to my liking re. list layout, sidebar, > shortcuts, editing and so on. I haven't used Mutt in this century. I assume it's still similar in appearance. > I still use KMail these days, quite often too. But it has a few drawbacks > and annoying little bugs that I encounter regularly, which is one reason for > staying with mutt. Another is that mutt is much much faster when dealing > with big directories such as lists. Still, there is no better graphical > alternative in KDE land. Thunderbird & Co don’t fit in optically, Trojita > is too limited. Agreed. A glance at Thunderbird was enough. Never heard of Trojita. Thanks all for the advice. -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
Am Sat, Jul 29, 2023 at 01:53:21AM -0400 schrieb Philip Webb: > 230729 Peter Humphrey wrote: > > I've been a loyal user of KMail for many years. > > Claws mail is often mentioned hereabouts and I'd like to try it, > > but first I'd need to export KMail's 20-odd-year maildir history > > to mbox format. > > I recommend a look at Mutt, which I've used very happily since c 1998 , > well before Gentoo existed. I've also always used Mbox, not Maildir. > Powerful, configurable, but also simple : the UNIX approach. When I had kmail issues back in the day of early akonadi times (remember Alan’s thread about data loss from then?), I tried out mutt and I’ve been using it ever since. I configured it to my liking re. list layout, sidebar, shortcuts, editing and so on. I still use KMail these days, quite often too. But it has a few drawbacks and annoying little bugs that I encounter regularly, which is one reason for staying with mutt. Another is that mutt is much much faster when dealing with big directories such as lists. Still, there is no better graphical alternative in KDE land. Thunderbird & Co don’t fit in optically, Trojita is too limited. -- Grüße | Greetings | Salut | Qapla’ Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network. When things went bonkers for the captain, he had the entire ship jettisoned. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On 29/07/2023 15:50, Arsen Arsenović wrote: But I DO have to care about postfix/main.cf. This makes the fundamental blunder of mixing distro defaults and local config in the SAME FILE. So yes it does offer me etc-update. But if I MISS THAT, I've just trashed my local config and have to rebuild it. If portage trashes the local file, something went wrong. That is the only thing that I'm trying to get to the bottom of in this thread. Application design is irrelevant to that. You say that the opportunity to etc-update is offered? If so, portage worked as it should and I'm satisfied, but I'm still confused about how the contents got trashed. Because - with dovecot - I initially made the mistake of editing the global file. etc-update over-wrote it. With postfix, I cannot see any way of NOT editing the global file. If you go back to what started all this, it was me advising the OP to make sure he edited the dovecot local file, not the global one. And yes, portage is working as it should, but it is working to mitigate breakage in the upstream application, namely postfix. Stuff it should not need to do. Cheers, Wol
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
Wols Lists writes: > On 29/07/2023 14:54, Arsen Arsenović wrote: >> Again, it shouldn't be able to do that. Please check CONFIG_PROTECT >> using: portageq envvar CONFIG_PROTECT >> It should, normally, contain /etc, set by profiles/base/make.defaults. > > And here is the root of the mis-understanding between us. And also why Dovecot > does it right, and Postfix does it wrong. > > WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO USE DISPATCH-CONF? (Or in my case, etc-update.) > > The point is I don't (have to) care whether dovecot.conf is updated or not. I > never change it from the distro defaults, so it never offers me etc-update, > and > it never does any damage. > > But I DO have to care about postfix/main.cf. This makes the fundamental > blunder > of mixing distro defaults and local config in the SAME FILE. So yes it does > offer me etc-update. But if I MISS THAT, I've just trashed my local config and > have to rebuild it. If portage trashes the local file, something went wrong. That is the only thing that I'm trying to get to the bottom of in this thread. Application design is irrelevant to that. You say that the opportunity to etc-update is offered? If so, portage worked as it should and I'm satisfied, but I'm still confused about how the contents got trashed. > At the end of the day, if you can't keep distro and local config separate, > that's a fault of the upstream application. etc-update and dispatch-conf are > gentoo's way of working round the breakage. IFF you use dovecot/local.conf, > it's a sign of good design by the upstream application, and etc-update or > dispatch-conf are completely UNNECESSARY. > > Cheers, > Wol -- Arsen Arsenović signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On 29/07/2023 14:54, Arsen Arsenović wrote: Again, it shouldn't be able to do that. Please check CONFIG_PROTECT using: portageq envvar CONFIG_PROTECT It should, normally, contain /etc, set by profiles/base/make.defaults. And here is the root of the mis-understanding between us. And also why Dovecot does it right, and Postfix does it wrong. WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO USE DISPATCH-CONF? (Or in my case, etc-update.) The point is I don't (have to) care whether dovecot.conf is updated or not. I never change it from the distro defaults, so it never offers me etc-update, and it never does any damage. But I DO have to care about postfix/main.cf. This makes the fundamental blunder of mixing distro defaults and local config in the SAME FILE. So yes it does offer me etc-update. But if I MISS THAT, I've just trashed my local config and have to rebuild it. At the end of the day, if you can't keep distro and local config separate, that's a fault of the upstream application. etc-update and dispatch-conf are gentoo's way of working round the breakage. IFF you use dovecot/local.conf, it's a sign of good design by the upstream application, and etc-update or dispatch-conf are completely UNNECESSARY. Cheers, Wol
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
Wols Lists writes: > On 29/07/2023 11:13, Arsen Arsenović wrote: >> Wols Lists writes: >> >>> On 29/07/2023 03:37, Bryan Gardiner wrote: User of Claws with a local maildir here. One mail per file always felt safer to me. If you do want to keep using maildir, net-mail/dovecot provides IMAP access to ~/.maildir out of the box, and I've found this combination to be reliable. >>> Just a tip which bit me when I first installed dovecot ... >>> >>> The master config file actually chain-loads a local config file, make sure >>> you >>> use it. I edited the master file directly, so of course the first update >>> overwrote and trashed it ... > >> That should not happen. Where's the master config file? Is it under a >> directory masked by CONFIG_PROTECT? > > And then the dovecot maintainers update things, update the config file, and it > breaks for all users because the config version no longer matches the program > version ... I don't recall Dovecot configs being version sensitive. > The master config file is in the obvious place - > /etc/dovecot/dovecot.conf. Just like postfix breaks exactly the same way - > /etc/postfix/main.cf. Then that should not have been overwritten. > Imho dovecot has got this (almost) exactly right. Just like systemd. You have > your master file that is updated by the distro, and you have your local file > that is updated by the sys admin. > > dovecot.conf points to a file local.conf, which does not error if it doesn't > exist, but over-rides dovecot.conf if it does. The proper way to do it! I agree, but this is still suspicious. CONFIG_PROTECT should've prevented that, and offered dispatch-conf instead. > Unlike postfix - where I can't find a place to split my local config away from > the default config - so every time postfix is updated I have to make sure it > doesn't try to update main.cf !!! Again, it shouldn't be able to do that. Please check CONFIG_PROTECT using: portageq envvar CONFIG_PROTECT It should, normally, contain /etc, set by profiles/base/make.defaults. Have a lovely day. -- Arsen Arsenović signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On 29/07/2023 12:01, Peter Humphrey wrote: Hm. I already have Dovecot on my LAN server, because KMail is horribly buggy with POP3, which is what my ISP offers. So fetchmail -> postfix -> dovecot became necessary before I could use IMAP4 in KMail. All incoming emails are transferred to my workstation because I like to have everything in one place and one backup. Maybe I'll stick with KMail a bit longer... Well then, install Claws and try it - just point it at Dovecot. Okay, I use Thunderbird, but there's no reason I have to - I run about 4 different instances of TB, all pointing at my Dovecot server, and all mail is visible on all my computers - the server/workstation, my old laptop, my new laptop, my wife's laptop when I borrow it, ... Cheers, Wol
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On 29/07/2023 11:13, Arsen Arsenović wrote: Wols Lists writes: On 29/07/2023 03:37, Bryan Gardiner wrote: User of Claws with a local maildir here. One mail per file always felt safer to me. If you do want to keep using maildir, net-mail/dovecot provides IMAP access to ~/.maildir out of the box, and I've found this combination to be reliable. Just a tip which bit me when I first installed dovecot ... The master config file actually chain-loads a local config file, make sure you use it. I edited the master file directly, so of course the first update overwrote and trashed it ... That should not happen. Where's the master config file? Is it under a directory masked by CONFIG_PROTECT? And then the dovecot maintainers update things, update the config file, and it breaks for all users because the config version no longer matches the program version ... The master config file is in the obvious place - /etc/dovecot/dovecot.conf. Just like postfix breaks exactly the same way - /etc/postfix/main.cf. Imho dovecot has got this (almost) exactly right. Just like systemd. You have your master file that is updated by the distro, and you have your local file that is updated by the sys admin. dovecot.conf points to a file local.conf, which does not error if it doesn't exist, but over-rides dovecot.conf if it does. The proper way to do it! Unlike postfix - where I can't find a place to split my local config away from the default config - so every time postfix is updated I have to make sure it doesn't try to update main.cf !!! Cheers, Wol
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On Saturday, 29 July 2023 07:56:21 BST Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Sat, 29 Jul 2023 01:29:59 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote: > > Claws mail is often mentioned hereabouts, and I'd like to try it, but > > first I'd need to export KMail's 20-odd-year maildir history to mbox > > format. Is it enough to run KMail's Import/Export Data tool to do this? > > It should be, on the face of it, but I'm suspicious (consider me > > paranoid if you like). > > Claws works with maildir. However, I'd also recommend setting up Dovecot > locally, then you can try as many mail clients as you want without having > to worry about where the mails are sotred or in what format. Hm. I already have Dovecot on my LAN server, because KMail is horribly buggy with POP3, which is what my ISP offers. So fetchmail -> postfix -> dovecot became necessary before I could use IMAP4 in KMail. All incoming emails are transferred to my workstation because I like to have everything in one place and one backup. Maybe I'll stick with KMail a bit longer... -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
Wols Lists writes: > On 29/07/2023 03:37, Bryan Gardiner wrote: >> User of Claws with a local maildir here. One mail per file always >> felt safer to me. If you do want to keep using maildir, >> net-mail/dovecot provides IMAP access to ~/.maildir out of the box, >> and I've found this combination to be reliable. > > Just a tip which bit me when I first installed dovecot ... > > The master config file actually chain-loads a local config file, make sure you > use it. I edited the master file directly, so of course the first update > overwrote and trashed it ... That should not happen. Where's the master config file? Is it under a directory masked by CONFIG_PROTECT? ~$ portageq envvar CONFIG_PROTECT /etc /usr/share/config ... on my machine (re-run on yours to check) > Cheers, > Wol -- Arsen Arsenović signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On Saturday, 29 July 2023 01:29:59 BST Peter Humphrey wrote: > Hello list, > > I've been a loyal user of KMail for many years. (Loyal? Masochistic might be > a better word.) It suits me exactly - or it would if it were reliable. It > isn't, though, which drives me to consider alternatives. I've been using Kmail since the good ol' KDE3 days. Back then it worked at least as good if not better than any other mail client I had tried. With the move to KDE4, Kmail became the worse mail client I have ever used. I mean, *catastrophically* worse! Both for the messages involved and for my nerves. Initially I blamed sqlite, which I was using as its back end for a season, but things were not much better with mysql. At some point I tried postgresql, which was more robust. Over the years the code matured. For some years now, Kmail is quite stable. There are still a couple of glitches with its GUI, e.g. the columns width has a mind of its own and recently its Korganizer sister application notifications cannot be snoozed for a short period of time, but overall it works without any drama. > Claws mail is often mentioned hereabouts, and I'd like to try it, but first > I'd need to export KMail's 20-odd-year maildir history to mbox format. Among many other email applications, I gave Claws a spin. A couple of months later I abandoned it, because I ended up spending more time trying to bend it out of shape to behave like Kmail (from keybindings, to layout, to attachments, etc.) than I was spending using it. Soon, my attempts to change its behaviour hit a wall of non-adjustable hardcoded features. I don't blame Claws for this, rather my brain which had been accustomed to work with Kmail. The mbox single file format is something I tried to move away from since the 90s, because as it grows in size it becomes more prone to corruption. Losing one message may be tolerable, but losing the lot less so. Sure, backups exist for a reason, but why accept architectural weaknesses if there is the more modern alternative of maildir? > Is > it enough to run KMail's Import/Export Data tool to do this? It should be, > on the face of it, but I'm suspicious (consider me paranoid if you like). I'll echo the recommendation for dovecot, plus backup(s). If things go sideways during your experiment, you can rinse and repeat. This is just good practice. That said, I have used the Kmail Import/Export data tool in the past to move messages between Kmail and Thunderbird. It worked, but can't recall the details. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On 29/07/2023 03:37, Bryan Gardiner wrote: User of Claws with a local maildir here. One mail per file always felt safer to me. If you do want to keep using maildir, net-mail/dovecot provides IMAP access to ~/.maildir out of the box, and I've found this combination to be reliable. Just a tip which bit me when I first installed dovecot ... The master config file actually chain-loads a local config file, make sure you use it. I edited the master file directly, so of course the first update overwrote and trashed it ... Cheers, Wol
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On Sat, 29 Jul 2023 01:29:59 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote: > Claws mail is often mentioned hereabouts, and I'd like to try it, but > first I'd need to export KMail's 20-odd-year maildir history to mbox > format. Is it enough to run KMail's Import/Export Data tool to do this? > It should be, on the face of it, but I'm suspicious (consider me > paranoid if you like). Claws works with maildir. However, I'd also recommend setting up Dovecot locally, then you can try as many mail clients as you want without having to worry about where the mails are sotred or in what format. -- Neil Bothwick If nothing sticks to Teflon, how do they stick teflon on the pan? pgpZ5hUmLwj83.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
230729 Peter Humphrey wrote: > I've been a loyal user of KMail for many years. > Claws mail is often mentioned hereabouts and I'd like to try it, > but first I'd need to export KMail's 20-odd-year maildir history > to mbox format. I recommend a look at Mutt, which I've used very happily since c 1998 , well before Gentoo existed. I've also always used Mbox, not Maildir. Powerful, configurable, but also simple : the UNIX approach. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On Sat, 29 Jul 2023 01:29:59 +0100 Peter Humphrey wrote: > Hello list, > > I've been a loyal user of KMail for many years. (Loyal? Masochistic > might be a better word.) It suits me exactly - or it would if it were > reliable. It isn't, though, which drives me to consider alternatives. > > Claws mail is often mentioned hereabouts, and I'd like to try it, but > first I'd need to export KMail's 20-odd-year maildir history to mbox > format. Is it enough to run KMail's Import/Export Data tool to do > this? It should be, on the face of it, but I'm suspicious (consider > me paranoid if you like). User of Claws with a local maildir here. One mail per file always felt safer to me. If you do want to keep using maildir, net-mail/dovecot provides IMAP access to ~/.maildir out of the box, and I've found this combination to be reliable. Since it's "just" local IMAP, moving data in and out can be done with most mail clients. Plus it means you're not tied to a single mail client going forward. I do miss KMail's breadth of features though. Never tried it's migration tools, sorry. Cheers, Bryan
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients
On 2023.07.28 20:29, Peter Humphrey wrote: Hello list, I've been a loyal user of KMail for many years. (Loyal? Masochistic might be a better word.) It suits me exactly - or it would if it were reliable. It isn't, though, which drives me to consider alternatives. Claws mail is often mentioned hereabouts, and I'd like to try it, but first I'd need to export KMail's 20-odd-year maildir history to mbox format. Is it enough to run KMail's Import/Export Data tool to do this? It should be, on the face of it, but I'm suspicious (consider me paranoid if you like). I've been a happy user of Balsa for many years. It reads maildir as is, no conversion necessary. Can also use mbox and other formats, and does IMAP as well as POP3. Jack
[gentoo-user] Email clients
Hello list, I've been a loyal user of KMail for many years. (Loyal? Masochistic might be a better word.) It suits me exactly - or it would if it were reliable. It isn't, though, which drives me to consider alternatives. Claws mail is often mentioned hereabouts, and I'd like to try it, but first I'd need to export KMail's 20-odd-year maildir history to mbox format. Is it enough to run KMail's Import/Export Data tool to do this? It should be, on the face of it, but I'm suspicious (consider me paranoid if you like). -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] email clients/Balsa: Was: Thunderbird 78
On 2020.08.20 16:11, james wrote: On 8/20/20 1:16 PM, Jack wrote: (Thunderbird, spike and slack). Others ? I've been using Balsa for years.� It was originally a gnome based app, but I use it under KDE/Plasma/openrc.� It can handle mbox, maildir, and several other storage types.� smtp, pop3, and imap. gnupg.� It defaults to showing the plain text version, but can display HTML, with download of images only on request.� The development team is small, but very responsive. I just look at the balsa "screenshots". I do like what I see there, so it is now on the list, thanks for that nomination. What flags for the balsa software do you set? Most of the time, I actually compile it myself, applying some personal patches to modify the logging. I did that to help track down an obscure crash I sometimes get, and haven't bother to revert it yet. In terms of USE flags: "emerge -p balsa" says I would have crypt and libnotify on, and all others off. I definitely have -gnome set globally. You likely want crypt to get the gnupg stuff. I can't remember if I used gnome-keyring (I think not) but I'm now not sure where it stores it's passwords otherwise. I can't remember what is used if you have -webkit. The others seem pretty obvious. The only current issue I see is that portage only has only 2.5.6-r1, but 2.6.1 is out. See https://bugs.gentoo.org/698670 and https://bugs.gentoo.org/725910 for more on that. Jack
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients - what can replace Evolution?
On 2/28/07, Iain Buchanan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2007-02-28 at 14:23 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote: As I said in a response a few minutes ago the emerge -e world, although not completely done, appears to have fixed it. Evolution is now running fine. I will wait for the emerge -e world to finish up tonight and ensure it's still working. We may never know exactly what caused the problem I suspect. if you want to know what broke it, then you should take the time to compile in some debugging symbols (just in evolution and associated libs, not the entire world!) This would have been quicker than rebuilding absolutely everything! You obviously have time, as you just did an emerge -e world ;) Unfortunately I don't think you'll be better off blindly fixing it - what if it happens again? What if a similar thing happens to a different package? Just switching mail-clients wont help - any package is potentially open to crashing. Take the time now to find out why, and save yourself time in the future, IMHO :) but glad it's working again. cya, -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au Iain, In principle I agree with you but specifics dictated the outcome this time. 1) I really didn't understand how to get the debugging stuff in there and actually working. Learning would have taken time. 2) My dad, an almost 79 year old Gentoo user, was traveling and returning home today. I Wanted him to have email. 3) Yes, emerge -e world takes time but requires very little attention so I am free to try to earn a living. I had only one digest mismatch in the rebuild. Other than that one stoppage the process went uninterrupted while I got other things done. I'm thinking that what I do need to do is learn to get debugging info but I can experiment with that on my machine instead of his. I worry that something basic will go wrong and because the machine is 300 miles away it would have to get shipped to me. If I work with my own machines first I'll have a better idea what's safe and what works. Now what I need to do is spend a little time learning more about debugging symbols and the tools required to make sense of them. Keep in mind that I am a user, not an IT guy, not a developer, not even a CS major. I only need to know enough to provide information to helpful folks who need it. I'll go work on that over the next few weeks maybe. Cheers and thanks! - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients - what can replace Evolution?
On 2/27/07, Mark Knecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I've got a machine that will no longer run Evolution. For whatever reason all versions of Evolution in Portage crash. I cannot as of yet get a backtrace to determine why. Even if I could a fast solution would depend on other folks seeing what's wrong and telling me how to fix it by recompiling some library or something. snip Have you tried running a revdep-rebuild -p -v to see if there's anything broken? Do you know what triggered the crashing behavious - did an update get run, did something new get emerged, did some ebuild get unmerged? HTH- James -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
RE: [gentoo-user] Email clients - what can replace Evolution?
-Original Message- From: James Ausmus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 February 2007 08:45 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients - what can replace Evolution? On 2/27/07, Mark Knecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I've got a machine that will no longer run Evolution. For whatever reason all versions of Evolution in Portage crash. I cannot as of yet get a backtrace to determine why. Even if I could a fast solution would depend on other folks seeing what's wrong and telling me how to fix it by recompiling some library or something. snip Have you tried running a revdep-rebuild -p -v to see if there's anything broken? Do you know what triggered the crashing behavious - did an update get run, did something new get emerged, did some ebuild get unmerged? HTH- James I'd second the revdep-rebuild solution. It's best knowing why it crashed rather than ignoring it in case it starts taking down other applications as well. A quick google however found: - Importing contacts to Thunderbird. USE THE SCRIPT AT YOUR OWN RISK. http://www.mepis.org/node/2916 - Importing emails (Evo doesnt have to be working...) http://applications.linux.com/article.pl?sid=04/09/10/1446217tid=37tid=101 (although this is from 2004) As always, YMMV. -- djn I do not represent anyone else in emails I send to this list. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients - what can replace Evolution?
On 2/28/07, Nelson, David (ED, PARD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: James Ausmus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 February 2007 08:45 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients - what can replace Evolution? On 2/27/07, Mark Knecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I've got a machine that will no longer run Evolution. For whatever reason all versions of Evolution in Portage crash. I cannot as of yet get a backtrace to determine why. Even if I could a fast solution would depend on other folks seeing what's wrong and telling me how to fix it by recompiling some library or something. snip Have you tried running a revdep-rebuild -p -v to see if there's anything broken? Do you know what triggered the crashing behavious - did an update get run, did something new get emerged, did some ebuild get unmerged? HTH- James I'd second the revdep-rebuild solution. It's best knowing why it crashed rather than ignoring it in case it starts taking down other applications as well. A quick google however found: - Importing contacts to Thunderbird. USE THE SCRIPT AT YOUR OWN RISK. http://www.mepis.org/node/2916 - Importing emails (Evo doesnt have to be working...) http://applications.linux.com/article.pl?sid=04/09/10/1446217tid=37tid=101 (although this is from 2004) As always, YMMV. Thanks. Yes, I'm completely through the emerge -DuN world, revdep-rebuild process. No help there. Evolution continues to crash. We were running Evolution 2.4. Unfortunately it's no longer in portage. I've built every unmasked and masked version in portage and they all crash. BugBuddy pops up but the backtrace is useless since there is no debugging info. I'm going to rebuild the who machine from scratch (emerge -e system, emerge -e world) to see if I get lucky. Anyway, thanks. We're happy to look at Thunderbird if it might work. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients - what can replace Evolution?
On Wednesday 28 February 2007 11:30:23 Mark Knecht wrote: Thanks. Yes, I'm completely through the emerge -DuN world, revdep-rebuild process. No help there. Evolution continues to crash. We were running Evolution 2.4. Unfortunately it's no longer in portage. I've built every unmasked and masked version in portage and they all crash. BugBuddy pops up but the backtrace is useless since there is no debugging info. I'm going to rebuild the who machine from scratch (emerge -e system, emerge -e world) to see if I get lucky. You have realized that you need to use either FEATURES=nostrip or FEATURES=splitdebug to get a better backtrace? Adding -g to your CFLAGS wouldn't hurt either. -- Bo Andresen pgpQzKZLREKPV.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients - what can replace Evolution?
On Tue, 2007-02-27 at 20:59 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote: Hi all, I've got a machine that will no longer run Evolution. For whatever reason all versions of Evolution in Portage crash. I cannot as of yet get a backtrace to determine why. I'm using evolution-2.8.2.1 and it works fine; can you post your emerge --info ? -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients - what can replace Evolution?
On 2/28/07, Bo Ørsted Andresen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 28 February 2007 11:30:23 Mark Knecht wrote: Thanks. Yes, I'm completely through the emerge -DuN world, revdep-rebuild process. No help there. Evolution continues to crash. We were running Evolution 2.4. Unfortunately it's no longer in portage. I've built every unmasked and masked version in portage and they all crash. BugBuddy pops up but the backtrace is useless since there is no debugging info. I'm going to rebuild the who machine from scratch (emerge -e system, emerge -e world) to see if I get lucky. You have realized that you need to use either FEATURES=nostrip or FEATURES=splitdebug to get a better backtrace? Adding -g to your CFLAGS wouldn't hurt either. -- Bo Andresen Thanks Bo. I read through the backtrace page you pointed me at and decided I didn't understand enough of it to correctly get through it. As a result I'm making no attempt at this point to get a back trace. I'm just rebuilding everything on time to see if Evolution starts working. I'm done with emerge -e system and about 1/3 of the way through emerge -e world so maybe this evening I'll know the results of that. If it still fails then I'll have to return here one more time to ask questions about what needs to be rebuilt. Must I rebuild everything or can I just do Evolution and see if it drops into a library and then rebuild that library and go deeper? I have no desire to rebuild the complete system just to find a bug in a program my dad doesn't really care if he's running only to find that like a number of bug reports I'm made recently I never get a response and there was no reason to do all the work on my end. Cheers, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients - what can replace Evolution?
On 2/28/07, Matthias Langer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2007-02-27 at 20:59 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote: Hi all, I've got a machine that will no longer run Evolution. For whatever reason all versions of Evolution in Portage crash. I cannot as of yet get a backtrace to determine why. I'm using evolution-2.8.2.1 and it works fine; can you post your emerge --info ? If you're interested then sure. I'm running evolution-2.8.2.1 on a couple of machines with no problems at all. It's only on his machine and only since upgrading to Gnome 2.16. gandalf ~ # emerge --info Portage 2.1.2-r9 (default-linux/x86/2006.0, gcc-4.1.1, glibc-2.5-r0, 2.6.18-gentoo-r4 i686) = System uname: 2.6.18-gentoo-r4 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2500+ Gentoo Base System release 1.12.9 Timestamp of tree: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 14:30:01 + dev-java/java-config: 1.3.7, 2.0.31 dev-lang/python: 2.4.3-r4 dev-python/pycrypto: 2.0.1-r5 sys-apps/sandbox:1.2.17 sys-devel/autoconf: 2.13, 2.61 sys-devel/automake: 1.4_p6, 1.5, 1.6.3, 1.7.9-r1, 1.8.5-r3, 1.9.6-r2, 1.10 sys-devel/binutils: 2.16.1-r3 sys-devel/gcc-config: 1.3.14 sys-devel/libtool: 1.5.22 virtual/os-headers: 2.6.17-r2 ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=x86 AUTOCLEAN=yes CBUILD=i686-pc-linux-gnu CFLAGS=-O3 -march=athlon-xp -funroll-loops -fprefetch-loop-arrays -pipe CHOST=i686-pc-linux-gnu CONFIG_PROTECT=/etc /home/mythtv/ /usr/share/X11/xkb CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK=/etc/env.d /etc/env.d/java/ /etc/gconf /etc/java-config/vms/ /etc/revdep-rebuild /etc/terminfo CXXFLAGS=-O3 -march=athlon-xp -funroll-loops -fprefetch-loop-arrays -pipe DISTDIR=/usr/portage/distfiles FEATURES=autoconfig distlocks metadata-transfer sandbox sfperms strict GENTOO_MIRRORS=http://mirror.tucdemonic.org/gentoo/ ftp://ftp.gtlib.cc.gatech.edu/pub/gentoo http://mirror.gentoo.gr.jp http://www.zentek-international.com/mirrors/gentoo/; LINGUAS=en MAKEOPTS=-j2 PKGDIR=/usr/portage/packages PORTAGE_RSYNC_OPTS=--recursive --links --safe-links --perms --times --compress --force --whole-file --delete --delete-after --stats --timeout=180 --exclude=/distfiles --exclude=/local --exclude=/packages PORTAGE_TMPDIR=/var/tmp PORTDIR=/usr/portage SYNC=rsync://rsync.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage USE=3dnow 3dnowext X Xi alsa apache2 audiofile berkdb bitmap-fonts cdparanoia cdr cjk cli cpudetection cracklib crypt cups dri dvd dvdr dvdread eds emboss encode flac foomaticdb fortran gdbm gif gimp gimpprint gnome gpm gstreamer gtk gtk2 i8x0 iconv imlib ipv6 isdnlog jpeg kde libg++ libwww mad midi mikmod mjpeg mmx mmxext motif mozilla mp3 mpeg mysql mythtv ncurses nls nptl nptlonly nvidia ogg opengl oss pam pcre perl png ppds pppd python qt3 qt4 quicktime readline real reflection sdl session sndfile spell spl sse ssl tcltk tcpd threads tiff transcode truetype truetype-fonts type1-fonts usb v4l v4l2 vorbis win32codecs x86 xml xorg xscreensaver xv xvid zlib ALSA_CARDS=ali5451 als4000 atiixp atiixp-modem bt87x ca0106 cmipci emu10k1 emu10k1x ens1370 ens1371 es1938 es1968 fm801 hda-intel intel8x0 intel8x0m maestro3 trident usb-audio via82xx via82xx-modem ymfpci ALSA_PCM_PLUGINS=adpcm alaw asym copy dmix dshare dsnoop empty extplug file hooks iec958 ioplug ladspa lfloat linear meter mulaw multi null plug rate route share shm softvol ELIBC=glibc INPUT_DEVICES=keyboard mouse KERNEL=linux LCD_DEVICES=bayrad cfontz cfontz633 glk hd44780 lb216 lcdm001 mtxorb ncurses text LINGUAS=en USERLAND=GNU VIDEO_CARDS=nv nvidia vesa Unset: CTARGET, EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS, INSTALL_MASK, LANG, LC_ALL, LDFLAGS, PORTAGE_RSYNC_EXTRA_OPTS, PORTDIR_OVERLAY gandalf ~ # Here are the only errors in a terminal when it crashes. It crashes in all accounts on the system so it's not something specific to my dad's setup. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ evolution (evolution-2.8:16011): evolution-mail-WARNING **: cannot load vfolders: Unable to load system rules '/usr/share/evolution/2.8/vfoldertypes.xml': Success (evolution-2.8:16011): Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_layout_set_hadjustment: assertion `GTK_IS_LAYOUT (layout)' failed (evolution-2.8:16011): Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_layout_set_vadjustment: assertion `GTK_IS_LAYOUT (layout)' failed ** (bug-buddy:16026): WARNING **: Couldn't load icon for Bonobo Component Browser ** (bug-buddy:16026): WARNING **: Couldn't load icon for Open Folder Failed to read a valid object file image from memory. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ Thanks, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients - what can replace Evolution?
On 2/28/07, Mark Knecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/28/07, Matthias Langer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2007-02-27 at 20:59 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote: Hi all, I've got a machine that will no longer run Evolution. For whatever reason all versions of Evolution in Portage crash. I cannot as of yet get a backtrace to determine why. I'm using evolution-2.8.2.1 and it works fine; can you post your emerge --info ? If you're interested then sure. I'm running evolution-2.8.2.1 on a couple of machines with no problems at all. It's only on his machine and only since upgrading to Gnome 2.16. [emerge --info snipped] Here are the only errors in a terminal when it crashes. It crashes in all accounts on the system so it's not something specific to my dad's setup. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ evolution (evolution-2.8:16011): evolution-mail-WARNING **: cannot load vfolders: Unable to load system rules '/usr/share/evolution/2.8/vfoldertypes.xml': Success (evolution-2.8:16011): Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_layout_set_hadjustment: assertion `GTK_IS_LAYOUT (layout)' failed (evolution-2.8:16011): Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_layout_set_vadjustment: assertion `GTK_IS_LAYOUT (layout)' failed ** (bug-buddy:16026): WARNING **: Couldn't load icon for Bonobo Component Browser ** (bug-buddy:16026): WARNING **: Couldn't load icon for Open Folder Failed to read a valid object file image from memory. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ Grasping at straws, but I found this: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-evolution-maintainers/2006-September/001441.html Try running evolution with the --sm-disable option? It's not a fix, I know, but it might help. An evolution --help might shed some light on what --sm-disable does, if it works. (I'd check myself, but I'm not in front of a linux box right now.) -- Ryan W Sims -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients - what can replace Evolution?
Mark Knecht wrote: If it still fails then I'll have to return here one more time to ask questions about what needs to be rebuilt. Have you tried moving ~/.evolution out of the way? Maybe it's just a broken config file that makes all versions of Evo stumble. Must I rebuild everything or can I just do Evolution and see if it drops into a library and then rebuild that library and go deeper? The latter. Just rebuild with symbols the things that Evolution uses. Benno -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients - what can replace Evolution?
On 2/28/07, Ryan Sims [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/28/07, Mark Knecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/28/07, Matthias Langer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2007-02-27 at 20:59 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote: Hi all, I've got a machine that will no longer run Evolution. For whatever reason all versions of Evolution in Portage crash. I cannot as of yet get a backtrace to determine why. I'm using evolution-2.8.2.1 and it works fine; can you post your emerge --info ? If you're interested then sure. I'm running evolution-2.8.2.1 on a couple of machines with no problems at all. It's only on his machine and only since upgrading to Gnome 2.16. [emerge --info snipped] Here are the only errors in a terminal when it crashes. It crashes in all accounts on the system so it's not something specific to my dad's setup. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ evolution (evolution-2.8:16011): evolution-mail-WARNING **: cannot load vfolders: Unable to load system rules '/usr/share/evolution/2.8/vfoldertypes.xml': Success (evolution-2.8:16011): Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_layout_set_hadjustment: assertion `GTK_IS_LAYOUT (layout)' failed (evolution-2.8:16011): Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_layout_set_vadjustment: assertion `GTK_IS_LAYOUT (layout)' failed ** (bug-buddy:16026): WARNING **: Couldn't load icon for Bonobo Component Browser ** (bug-buddy:16026): WARNING **: Couldn't load icon for Open Folder Failed to read a valid object file image from memory. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ Grasping at straws, but I found this: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-evolution-maintainers/2006-September/001441.html Try running evolution with the --sm-disable option? It's not a fix, I know, but it might help. An evolution --help might shed some light on what --sm-disable does, if it works. (I'd check myself, but I'm not in front of a linux box right now.) -- Ryan W Sims Ryan, Hi. Thanks for the idea. Tried it. As of earlier this morning it was still the same problem. From the help info: --sm-disable Disable connection to session manager I tried a few other options but no help. At the time it still crashed the same way. Of course, that was at the time. In the background I'm doing an emerge -e world. The rebuild is about 50% of the way through. Apparently something needed to be rebuilt because now Evolution is starting up just fine. No GTK messages. No problems. Opens fine and seems to work. Do not have any idea yet what helped but something did. Thanks, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients - what can replace Evolution?
On 2/28/07, Benno Schulenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark Knecht wrote: If it still fails then I'll have to return here one more time to ask questions about what needs to be rebuilt. Have you tried moving ~/.evolution out of the way? Maybe it's just a broken config file that makes all versions of Evo stumble. Must I rebuild everything or can I just do Evolution and see if it drops into a library and then rebuild that library and go deeper? The latter. Just rebuild with symbols the things that Evolution uses. Benno Hi Benno, It failed in a new account I created just to test that. As I said in a response a few minutes ago the emerge -e world, although not completely done, appears to have fixed it. Evolution is now running fine. I will wait for the emerge -e world to finish up tonight and ensure it's still working. We may never know exactly what caused the problem I suspect. Thanks, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients - what can replace Evolution?
Mark Knecht wrote: Hi Benno, It failed in a new account I created just to test that. As I said in a response a few minutes ago the emerge -e world, although not completely done, appears to have fixed it. Evolution is now running fine. I will wait for the emerge -e world to finish up tonight and ensure it's still working. We may never know exactly what caused the problem I suspect. Thanks, Mark I had the same thing to happen with Mozilla a good while back. I never did find out what fixed it either. Dale :-) :-) :-) -- www.myspace.com/dalek1967 -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Email clients - what can replace Evolution?
On Wed, 2007-02-28 at 14:23 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote: As I said in a response a few minutes ago the emerge -e world, although not completely done, appears to have fixed it. Evolution is now running fine. I will wait for the emerge -e world to finish up tonight and ensure it's still working. We may never know exactly what caused the problem I suspect. if you want to know what broke it, then you should take the time to compile in some debugging symbols (just in evolution and associated libs, not the entire world!) This would have been quicker than rebuilding absolutely everything! You obviously have time, as you just did an emerge -e world ;) Unfortunately I don't think you'll be better off blindly fixing it - what if it happens again? What if a similar thing happens to a different package? Just switching mail-clients wont help - any package is potentially open to crashing. Take the time now to find out why, and save yourself time in the future, IMHO :) but glad it's working again. cya, -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au Misfortunes arrive on wings and leave on foot. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Email clients - what can replace Evolution?
Hi all, I've got a machine that will no longer run Evolution. For whatever reason all versions of Evolution in Portage crash. I cannot as of yet get a backtrace to determine why. Even if I could a fast solution would depend on other folks seeing what's wrong and telling me how to fix it by recompiling some library or something. I cannot be sure if or even when that might happen so my user needs to move on. He's been without access to his email for about 10 days and is fed up waiting for me to fix it. The question is how to move forward. Is there any other Linux email client that can pick up where Evolution has failed him? I know nothing about how Evolution stores mail, contact lists, etc. so I don't know what he might be able to use. What is the KDE mail client? Can Thunderbird look at Evolution files? I spent some time going through the online Portage database but nothing seemed obvious so I hoped to hear about an app to try out here. In parallel I can try something like emerge -e world. Maybe I'll get lucky? ;-) Thanks in advance for any info you can provide. Cheers, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
