Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Mon, Jun 06, 2011 at 07:01:47AM -0400, Tanstaafl wrote: On 2011-06-05 11:44 PM, Indi wrote: I see what you mean about the default config, LOL. Been trying to change the font sizes used for the message list and folder pane, but no success yet. Makes it a bit hard to see things but other than that it seems pretty nice once you remove the redundant folders it creates by default. It's much more responsive than the last version I tested, a huge improvement in fact. Just need to figure out what determines those list fonts -- it's in here somewhere... http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=thunderbird+change+font+size+in+message+pane Like I said, there isn't much you cannot change, but sometimes it takes a bit of searching... ;) Anyone can point to a google search, smartass. :) Of course, the search turns up nothing that works for tbird3. Do you *really* imagine I'd post what I did without searching first? -- klaatu virada nicto
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On 2011-06-06 7:19 AM, Indi wrote:
Anyone can point to a google search, smartass. :)
I've been called worse... ;)
Of course, the search turns up nothing that works for tbird3.
It doesn't state specifically, but the very first hit works fine for
3.1.10 for me...
Do you *really* imagine I'd post what I did without searching first?
Well, since the first hack/hit works fine, yeah, that's what I thought...
As to your last - yes, I'm on Windows (as I stated before) - but nothing
says this hack only works on Windows...
You do realize that you cannot edit the userChrome.css file while
Thunderbird is running, right?
Close/kill Thunderbird, then add the following VERBATIM to your
userChrome.css file:
* {
font-size: 22px !important;
font-family: Arial !important;
}
Adjust the font size to what you want, then start thunderbird...
I'll be interested to learn if this DOESN'T work cross-platform, because
I though all userChrome.css and user.js hacks were supposed to be
cross-platform. Maybe your Window Manager is over-riding it somehow?
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Mon, Jun 06, 2011 at 08:13:31AM -0400, Tanstaafl wrote: As to your last - yes, I'm on Windows (as I stated before) - but nothing says this hack only works on Windows... It doesn't work in linux. It was the first thing I tried. ***[Snip all the rest of the advice that doesn't work in linux]*** You know friend, you *really* shouldn't assume linux users will get the same results you're getting on windows. It's a little frustrating, especially when you tell people *they're* having PEBKAC errors and being a bit smug and it turns out *you're* reporting your experiences with a whole other OS. It's bad form, and some people will get angry with you over that sort of thing. Not me though, I should have stuck to the old rule that headers help determine credibility. Had I paid attention to that, I'd have looked into it better before wastig so much time. :) -- klaatu virada nicto
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On 6/6/2011 5:36 AM, Indi wrote: On Mon, Jun 06, 2011 at 08:13:31AM -0400, Tanstaafl wrote: As to your last - yes, I'm on Windows (as I stated before) - but nothing says this hack only works on Windows... It doesn't work in linux. It was the first thing I tried. ***[Snip all the rest of the advice that doesn't work in linux]*** You know friend, you *really* shouldn't assume linux users will get the same results you're getting on windows. It's a little frustrating, especially when you tell people *they're* having PEBKAC errors and being a bit smug and it turns out *you're* reporting your experiences with a whole other OS. It's bad form, and some people will get angry with you over that sort of thing. Not me though, I should have stuck to the old rule that headers help determine credibility. Had I paid attention to that, I'd have looked into it better before wastig so much time. :) I'd like to point out that the PEBCAK was on your end. Again. And next time rather than telling people how much they are or aren't assuming about your system try following the instruction exactly rather than spouting about differences in Windows, Linux, x86, x86_64, Thunderbird, mutt, the electrons on your computer, etc etc. Sheesh. kashani
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Mon, Jun 06, 2011 at 09:42:01AM -0700, kashani wrote: I'd like to point out that the PEBCAK was on your end. Sorry, no. And you just used your one shot at trolling me. Do it again and it's the bozo bin for you. -- klaatu virada nicto
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On 06/06/2011 09:52 AM, Indi wrote: On Mon, Jun 06, 2011 at 09:42:01AM -0700, kashani wrote: I'd like to point out that the PEBCAK was on your end. Sorry, no. And you just used your one shot at trolling me. Do it again and it's the bozo bin for you. Well, Indi, you are now right alongside Singapore Citizen in my filter list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Mon, Jun 06, 2011 at 10:16:12AM -0700, Bill Longman wrote: On 06/06/2011 09:52 AM, Indi wrote: On Mon, Jun 06, 2011 at 09:42:01AM -0700, kashani wrote: I'd like to point out that the PEBCAK was on your end. Sorry, no. And you just used your one shot at trolling me. Do it again and it's the bozo bin for you. Well, Indi, you are now right alongside Singapore Citizen in my filter list BFD. Wear your inability to read like a medal if you like. -- klaatu virada nicto
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 04:35:46PM -0700, walt wrote: Thunderbird is my every-day news and email client and I don't switch because it just works for me. Oh that reminds me, one of the annoyances which seems to be common among GUI MUAs is they create a fixed set of IMAP folders which one is then stuck with whether or not they correspond to the IMAP structure already established. Does t-bird still do that? -- caveat utilitor ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
Am 05.06.2011 11:29, schrieb Indi: Oh that reminds me, one of the annoyances which seems to be common among GUI MUAs is they create a fixed set of IMAP folders which one is then stuck with whether or not they correspond to the IMAP structure already established. Does t-bird still do that? T-bird uses a set of preset folders, but all of them can be changed to whatever needed. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
Apparently, though unproven, at 01:58 on Sunday 05 June 2011, Volker Armin Hemmann did opine thusly: On Saturday 04 June 2011 23:53:50 Mick wrote: ... as mud! This reply of yours (unlike your previous) is shown as a new thread in Knode, not as a threaded reply to Dale's message. :@ PS. I'm responding using Knode and news.gmane.org as an NNTP server, to see what difference this may make. you just started a new thread. which shows up in the correct place in the old thread with KMail's standard display. If his mail broke headers, the KMail was able to deal with it regardless -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sun, 05 Jun 2011 01:00:01 +0200, Mick wrote about [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design: David W Noon wrote: [snip] I hope all is clear now. ... as mud! This reply of yours (unlike your previous) is shown as a new thread in Knode, not as a threaded reply to Dale's message. :@ PS. I'm responding using Knode and news.gmane.org as an NNTP server, to see what difference this may make. Well, here are some interesting header lines from my message to which you are replying: Message-ID: h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it References: gzysg-h5...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it gzysg-h5...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it X-Original-Message-ID: 20110604232200.36c03637@karnak.local X-Original-References: gzxpy-7qa...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l8...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l8...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l8...@gated-at.bofh.it gzxpy-7qa...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rr-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h05ku-3f...@gated-at.bofh.it The X-Original-Message-ID: line is a rewrite of the original Message-ID: line Claws-Mail assigned when I wrote the message. The Message-ID: line is the replacement generated by the bofh.it list server. These both look quite kosher. Now, when we look at the References: and X-Original-References: lines, we see that the list server has rewritten the message id's of all the messages referred to earlier in the thread. I find this a little strange, as it seems that the message id's sent to Usenet differ from the ones sent via email. If we now look at the innards of your message, the one to which I am currently replying, we see this: References: gzysg-h5...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it gzysg-h5...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it X-Original-References: gzxpy-7qa...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l8...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l8...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l8...@gated-at.bofh.it gzxpy-7qa...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rr-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h05ku-3f...@gated-at.bofh.it 20110604232200.36c03637@karnak.local The last message id in your X-Original-References: line has used my original message id, not the one from the Message-ID: line generated by the Gentoo list server. This should not cause problems, as the better mail and news readers should only use In-Reply-To: and References: header lines for the initial threading. I should point out that I always post by SMTP to gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org, and never through an NNTP server (not even my own). This means that you should not see my original Message-ID: line, except after it has been rewritten and replaced by the list server. So, why is KNode using my original message id for its References: line? Could you please look at the Message-ID: and X-Original-Message-ID: lines in my previous message and compare them to those I posted above? -- Regards, Dave [RLU #314465] *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* dwn...@ntlworld.com (David W Noon) *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On 06/04/2011 02:59 PM, Indi wrote: Maybe I'll put the next person who complains about evolution on thunderbird and see how they do with it... I absolutely love Thunderbird, but with one caveat... I love it because of its stability, how well it does IMAP, but most importantly, how configurable it is, both through the use of extensions, and manual edits to userChrome.css and user.js. I absolutely *loathe* the default U interface configuration. It took me about a week to figure out how to get 3.1 to where I liked it and the way I had had 2.x configured for ages... So, many people who may hate Thunderbird may just hate the default config (like I did), and may not realize how easily it is customized, so that they can have it 'their way'.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sunday 05 Jun 2011 16:48:19 David W Noon wrote: On Sun, 05 Jun 2011 01:00:01 +0200, Mick wrote about [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design: David W Noon wrote: [snip] I hope all is clear now. ... as mud! This reply of yours (unlike your previous) is shown as a new thread in Knode, not as a threaded reply to Dale's message. :@ PS. I'm responding using Knode and news.gmane.org as an NNTP server, to see what difference this may make. Well, here are some interesting header lines from my message to which you are replying: Message-ID: h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it References: gzysg-h5...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it gzysg-h5...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it X-Original-Message-ID: 20110604232200.36c03637@karnak.local X-Original-References: gzxpy-7qa...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l8...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l8...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l8...@gated-at.bofh.it gzxpy-7qa...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rr-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h05ku-3f...@gated-at.bofh.it The X-Original-Message-ID: line is a rewrite of the original Message-ID: line Claws-Mail assigned when I wrote the message. The Message-ID: line is the replacement generated by the bofh.it list server. These both look quite kosher. I am getting a headache! O_O This is what Knode is showing as header references in your message that I thereafter responded using Knode and news.gmane.org: Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David W Noon dwn...@ntlworld.com Newsgroups: gmane.linux.gentoo.user Subject: Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2011 23:22:00 +0100 Organization: Luton Operatic Society Lines: 64 Approved: n...@gmane.org Message-ID: 20110604232200.36c03637@karnak.local [1] References: gzxpy-7qa...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l8...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l8...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l8...@gated-at.bofh.it gzxpy-7qa...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rr-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h05ku-3f...@gated-at.bofh.it Reply-To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1; [1] As you can see the Message ID: 20110604232200.36c03637@karnak.local shown on Usenet is different to the Message-ID: h07vY-7fk-13@gated- at.bofh.it which you mention above, but the same with your X-Original- Message-ID: 20110604232200.36c03637@karnak.local. The Usenet headers do not show any X-Original-References: in your message, at least not in my Knode. The email headers also do not show any X-Original-References: at least in my Kmail. :( Now, when we look at the References: and X-Original-References: lines, we see that the list server has rewritten the message id's of all the messages referred to earlier in the thread. I find this a little strange, as it seems that the message id's sent to Usenet differ from the ones sent via email. I'm not entirely sure that this rewriting is a list server action and wonder if it has something to do with your fetchmail setup ... If we now look at the innards of your message, the one to which I am currently replying, we see this: References: gzysg-h5...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it gzysg-h5...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it h07vy-7fk...@gated-at.bofh.it X-Original-References: gzxpy-7qa...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l8...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l8...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rs-2l8...@gated-at.bofh.it gzxpy-7qa...@gated-at.bofh.it h04rr-2l...@gated-at.bofh.it h05ku-3f...@gated-at.bofh.it 20110604232200.36c03637@karnak.local The last message id in your X-Original-References: line has used my original message id, not the one from the Message-ID: line generated by the Gentoo list server. This should not cause problems, as the better mail and news readers should only use In-Reply-To: and References: header lines for the initial threading. I should point out that I always post by SMTP to gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org, and never through an NNTP server (not even my own
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 08:20:01PM +0200, Mick wrote: The Usenet headers do not show any X-Original-References: in your message, at least not in my Knode. They do, but apparently knode isn't showing you all headers. The email headers also do not show any X-Original-References: at least in my Kmail. :( No, in mail that header doesn't exist. The mail2news gateway recreates the Message-ID header especially for usenet and puts the original MID in X-Original-Message-ID, which is a custom header. I'm fairly certain that merely taking the X-Original-Message-ID info of the message one wishes to reply to and puting it in the In-Reply-To field of the reply is the trick to reading from usenet without breaking threads posting. The References won't matter. This post was done that way, so let me know. :) -- klaatu virada nicto
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sunday 05 Jun 2011 19:35:52 Indi wrote: On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 08:20:01PM +0200, Mick wrote: The Usenet headers do not show any X-Original-References: in your message, at least not in my Knode. They do, but apparently knode isn't showing you all headers. Well, under View source it doesn't. Nor is it showing it in the sent_3.mbox flat file where news messages are stored. Coming to think of it I just checked and google mail does not show any when you view the raw message (Show Original). The email headers also do not show any X-Original-References: at least in my Kmail. :( No, in mail that header doesn't exist. The mail2news gateway recreates the Message-ID header especially for usenet and puts the original MID in X-Original-Message-ID, which is a custom header. I'm fairly certain that merely taking the X-Original-Message-ID info of the message one wishes to reply to and puting it in the In-Reply-To field of the reply is the trick to reading from usenet without breaking threads posting. The References won't matter. This post was done that way, so let me know. :) This post only shows: Message-ID: 20110605183552.ga23...@gaurahari.merseine.nu -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 08:17:53PM +0100, Mick wrote: On Sunday 05 Jun 2011 19:35:52 Indi wrote: On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 08:20:01PM +0200, Mick wrote: The Usenet headers do not show any X-Original-References: in your message, at least not in my Knode. They do, but apparently knode isn't showing you all headers. Well, under View source it doesn't. Nor is it showing it in the sent_3.mbox flat file where news messages are stored. Coming to think of it I just checked and google mail does not show any when you view the raw message (Show Original). The email headers also do not show any X-Original-References: at least in my Kmail. :( No, in mail that header doesn't exist. The mail2news gateway recreates the Message-ID header especially for usenet and puts the original MID in X-Original-Message-ID, which is a custom header. I'm fairly certain that merely taking the X-Original-Message-ID info of the message one wishes to reply to and puting it in the In-Reply-To field of the reply is the trick to reading from usenet without breaking threads posting. The References won't matter. This post was done that way, so let me know. :) This post only shows: Message-ID: 20110605183552.ga23...@gaurahari.merseine.nu Yes, but does it appear correctly threaded? BTW this sort of thing is just one example of why I prefer mutt. Not sure why some MUAs and newsreaders insist on making a secret of the original, actual, message headers, but I tend not to trust software that does that sort of thing. Probably it's just the result of a misguided no-one wants all that 'extra' info cluttering things up belief, but you never know. -- klaatu virada nicto
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
Apparently, though unproven, at 21:36 on Sunday 05 June 2011, Indi did opine thusly: This post was done that way, so let me know. :) This post only shows: Message-ID: 20110605183552.ga23...@gaurahari.merseine.nu Yes, but does it appear correctly threaded? Yes, it is now correct. KMail threads it correctly using it's perfect setting - not using references and subject lines. The last 5 messages all thread correctly back to this one by David: Message-ID: 20110605164819.0b013841@karnak.local -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sun, 05 Jun 2011 20:20:01 +0200, Mick wrote about Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design: [snip] This is what Knode is showing as header references in your message that I thereafter responded using Knode and news.gmane.org: Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail Bingo! We have our culprit. Here is my Path: header for your message: Path: mx04.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org! feeder.eternal-september.org!newsfeed.x-privat.org!bofh.it!news.nic.it! robomod A Path: line is read from right to left. This means that the message started at robomod -- which is a mail-news gateway, most likely from the list server -- and then went via NNTP to news.nic.it and then to bofh.it. Only at this stage were the message id's modified!! This is not the list server, as I had previously thought, but some newsserver that has penchant for corrupting header lines. Perhaps the BOFH description is appropriate. ... :-) [For those not old enough to remember, here is a link to the original: http://bofh.ntk.net/BOFH/index.php ] The upshot is that anybody who reads this list through an NNTP server that is downstream from bofh.it will be replying with bogus message id's. This will cause thread breakage whenever a reader's MUA cannot rebuild the thread from Subject: and Date: header lines. Just *why* the bofh.it server does this to the message id's has me baffled. -- Regards, Dave [RLU #314465] *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* dwn...@ntlworld.com (David W Noon) *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
David W Noon wrote: On Sun, 05 Jun 2011 20:20:01 +0200, Mick wrote about Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design: [snip] This is what Knode is showing as header references in your message that I thereafter responded using Knode and news.gmane.org: Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail Bingo! We have our culprit. Here is my Path: header for your message: Path: mx04.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org! feeder.eternal-september.org!newsfeed.x-privat.org!bofh.it!news.nic.it! robomod A Path: line is read from right to left. This means that the message started at robomod -- which is a mail-news gateway, most likely from the list server -- and then went via NNTP to news.nic.it and then to bofh.it. Only at this stage were the message id's modified!! This is not the list server, as I had previously thought, but some newsserver that has penchant for corrupting header lines. Perhaps the BOFH description is appropriate. ... :-) [For those not old enough to remember, here is a link to the original: http://bofh.ntk.net/BOFH/index.php ] The upshot is that anybody who reads this list through an NNTP server that is downstream from bofh.it will be replying with bogus message id's. This will cause thread breakage whenever a reader's MUA cannot rebuild the thread from Subject: and Date: header lines. Just *why* the bofh.it server does this to the message id's has me baffled. By the way, your reply started a new thread, either yours or the previous message broke something. I'm not quite so confused now. This didn't help any: Bastard Operator From Hell (/BOFH/) This is another way of reading that but there may be a few ladies on here. ;-) I now realize that you are talking about a news server thingy. lol Cleared up a little mud at least. lol Dale :-) :-)
[gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 David W Noon wrote: On Sun, 05 Jun 2011 21:30:01 +0200, Mick wrote about Re: [gentoo-user] Threads changing Was: OT: website design: On Sunday 05 Jun 2011 19:59:59 David W Noon wrote: [snip] Are we all confused enough for this weekend? ... :-) Ha, ha! I'm more than others it seems! It has been a knotty problem. Also have a look at gmane. Some of your responses (and Indi's) are broken. Indi and I both use the same NNTP server to poll the list, so we both get the same munged message id's. I guess next step is to contact the offending NNTP server admin and ask them to fix their header munging algorithms? PS. This is sent via Knode/news.gmane.org - -- Regards, Mick -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux) iEUEARECAAYFAk3sATAACgkQVTDTR3kpaLYkAgCeOBYU3E4Mj80vPCcxRD//JgTN TG8AliNdJatG657/hI3FVBj8ZbAmdG0= =40L7 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sun, 05 Jun 2011 17:06:28 -0500, Dale wrote about Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design: [snip] By the way, your reply started a new thread, either yours or the previous message broke something. That's because I was replying to Mick's message from the NNTP server news.eternal-september.org. It is downstream from bofh.it. This reply should not break threading, as I am replying to your message received directly from the mailing list. [I have switched my subscription from nomail to mail.] I'm not quite so confused now. This didn't help any: Bastard Operator From Hell (/BOFH/) Well, if you read the BOFH stories, you will find that the central character has a penchant for treating users with contempt. This is another way of reading that but there may be a few ladies on here. ;-) I now realize that you are talking about a news server thingy. lol Cleared up a little mud at least. lol Well, I'm glad we have sorted out the mystery. I don't know if we can get the sysadmin to fix the rogue newsserver. -- Regards, Dave [RLU #314465] *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* dwn...@ntlworld.com (David W Noon) *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
David W Noon wrote: Well, I'm glad we have sorted out the mystery. I don't know if we can get the sysadmin to fix the rogue newsserver. I know one thing, ya'll beat it to death trying to figure out what was breaking it. You are likely right tho, they may not care if it is fixed or not. Maybe if enough people complained. Surely there are lots of people that still use threading to follow topics. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 10:16:01PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: Apparently, though unproven, at 21:36 on Sunday 05 June 2011, Indi did opine thusly: This post was done that way, so let me know. :) This post only shows: Message-ID: 20110605183552.ga23...@gaurahari.merseine.nu Yes, but does it appear correctly threaded? Yes, it is now correct. KMail threads it correctly using it's perfect setting - not using references and subject lines. The last 5 messages all thread correctly back to this one by David: Message-ID: 20110605164819.0b013841@karnak.local Thanks! -- klaatu virada nicto
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On 06/05/2011 11:51 AM, Tanstaafl wrote: On 06/04/2011 02:59 PM, Indi wrote: Maybe I'll put the next person who complains about evolution on thunderbird and see how they do with it... I absolutely love Thunderbird, but with one caveat... I love it because of its stability, how well it does IMAP, but most importantly, how configurable it is, both through the use of extensions, and manual edits to userChrome.css and user.js. I absolutely *loathe* the default U interface configuration. It took me about a week to figure out how to get 3.1 to where I liked it and the way I had had 2.x configured for ages... So, many people who may hate Thunderbird may just hate the default config (like I did), and may not realize how easily it is customized, so that they can have it 'their way'. I see what you mean about the default config, LOL. Been trying to change the font sizes used for the message list and folder pane, but no success yet. Makes it a bit hard to see things but other than that it seems pretty nice once you remove the redundant folders it creates by default. It's much more responsive than the last version I tested, a huge improvement in fact. Just need to figure out what determines those list fonts -- it's in here somewhere... -- caveat utilitor ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫
[gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
David W Noon wrote: On Sat, 04 Jun 2011 22:10:02 +0200, Dale wrote about Re: [gentoo-user] Threads changing Was: OT: website design: [snip] Well, something works now. This is threaded as it should be. So, whatever you are doing, keep doing it that away. lol I don't want you to think I was upset or anything. I just went back and noticed you was one of the ones that it was breaking the threads on. Not a problem. In fact, it is not I (or Indi) who is causing the breakage. A little further investigation has shown that the Message-ID: line of all message posted through the Gentoo list server is rewritten, regardless of its initial value. This is why correctly posted messages have the Bastard Operator From Hell designation: the domain name of Gentoo's list server is bofh.it. This also means that those who read this list's messages via email will always see a valid Message-ID: line. Now, one other possible cause of message id mismatch is people posting directly to Usenet as well as through the list server. All NNTP servers should have the newsgroup that is a reflection of this mailing list marked as no posting allowed; certainly news.eternal-september.org is configured that way. However, if a misposted message gets through from another Usenet-registered NNTP server, I will see it with the alternate Message-ID: line, not the one generated by the Gentoo list server. It is messages such as this that cause the breakage in threads when somebody (anybody) reading through an NNTP server posts a follow-up to such a message. So, when you see a breakage in a message thread, it is the message that is the tail-end of the original thread that is causing the breakage, not the message that apparently starts the new thread. I hope all is clear now. ... as mud! This reply of yours (unlike your previous) is shown as a new thread in Knode, not as a threaded reply to Dale's message. :@ PS. I'm responding using Knode and news.gmane.org as an NNTP server, to see what difference this may make. -- Regards, Mick
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
Mick wrote: ... as mud! This reply of yours (unlike your previous) is shown as a new thread in Knode, not as a threaded reply to Dale's message. :@ PS. I'm responding using Knode and news.gmane.org as an NNTP server, to see what difference this may make. Interesting. Here the thread goes like this: Starts with Indi, then David W Moon and both of us replying to David. Sort of like this in case that doesn't make sense: Indi David reply to Indi Mick reply to David Dale reply to David So what messed up this time? Again, I'm using Seamonkey and I use the defaults on threads, not sure there is anything else either. Dale :-) :-)
[gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On 06/04/2011 02:59 PM, Indi wrote: On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 11:44:30PM +0200, Sebastian Beßler wrote: Am 04.06.2011 23:10, schrieb Indi: Every single GUI MUA I ever tried would lock up and become unresponsive at times when dealing with IMAP. I use Thunderbird and IMAP for 3 years now and in all that time became TB never unresponsive. So this point seems to have improved since your testing. That's good to know, thanks. I'm unlikely to switch from mutt (due in part to so many macros and customizations accumulated the last couple of years), but am always keeping an eye out for those I support. Maybe I'll put the next person who complains about evolution on thunderbird and see how they do with it... I've found evolution to be a perfectly fine email client -- but a disaster as an nntp client. Evolution insists on sending outgoing mail and fetching incoming mail *and* fetching all the headers from every newsgroup I read, all at the same time. Fetching the news headers takes for fscking *ever* (not unlike alpine) so I just stopped using evolution and alpine for news. Thunderbird is my every-day news and email client and I don't switch because it just works for me. BTW, evolution claims to be a substitute for the MS Office Outlook suite, so I'm assuming that whatever frustrations I have with evolution probably originate with Outlook. (But I can't support this claim with real evidence.)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Saturday 04 June 2011 23:53:50 Mick wrote: ... as mud! This reply of yours (unlike your previous) is shown as a new thread in Knode, not as a threaded reply to Dale's message. :@ PS. I'm responding using Knode and news.gmane.org as an NNTP server, to see what difference this may make. you just started a new thread. -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design
On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 01:58:12AM +0200, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Saturday 04 June 2011 23:53:50 Mick wrote: ... as mud! This reply of yours (unlike your previous) is shown as a new thread in Knode, not as a threaded reply to Dale's message. :@ PS. I'm responding using Knode and news.gmane.org as an NNTP server, to see what difference this may make. you just started a new thread. Sorry, I missed that before. I thought you couldn't post from usenet to this group -- news.idividual.net won't let you, I know that. If you *could* get away somehow with posting to this list via usenet that would defintely break the thread, unless you copy the old MID from the X-Original_Message-ID (or whatever it's called) and use that for the In-Reply-To header. -- caveat utilitor ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤
