Mike: Thanks for replying to this user while I've been busy.
RABNUD: I'm sorry for taking so long to reply, but this is the first
chance I've had to write a proper reponse.
Also, it looks like Mike, (one of our more, ummm, shall we say direct
members) has replied accurately and succinctly.
At http://news.gnhlug.org/article.php?sid=375 is:
Err, there are no moderators on this mailing listmaking private replies
impossibleShaheen''s email forgery law in NH made email without a valid
reply address illegal in NH
Sigh again, assumes I sent an email to someone/somelist, which I
In a message dated: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 18:54:38 EST
Ray Bowles said:
Somebody keeps saying it's been done this way for 30
years...Well maybe it's time to update SOME things.
Ray, you seem to have completely misunderstood everything everyone
has said, at least on this side of the argument.
This
Paul Lussier wrote:
What he asked for just simply doesn't exist. That doesn't mean it
can't or it won't, just that it doesn't now. [...] If this thing
comes about at all, it will be because those who need it decide to
band together and develop it themselves
NOW we're getting
Thanks for posting this Mike - I've been waiting for some of the regular
subscribers to at least mention the web site (visit and offering to
help maintain it would be nice too).
I just posted some FAQs to the news web site that might answer
some of your questions. (I chose to point out
In a message dated: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:23:50 EST
Derek D. Martin said:
And how could I forget to mention Evi Nemeth's wonderful Unix System
Administration Handbook which now covers Linux (but focuses on Red
Hat). She will soon be releasing a Linux-specific version of the book
as well, though
*** On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 at 1:34pm RABNUD shared this with the class::
and he watches the gears spin. Psst: (whisper) they just learned
something and quietly gained confidence in the cli aspect of Linux
.
I don't know you from a hole in the wall, but you have got to be the
smartest
At http://news.gnhlug.org/article.php?sid=375 is:
Howdy!
Let me say right off that the moderators will certainly edit this post -
with a huge grin!!
(Hints of an online message forum leap to the fore)
There is no shortage of printed material at
any self respecting bookstore on any
Every manual is fine. Some are just finer than others ;)
-Mike-
--- RABNUD [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At http://news.gnhlug.org/article.php?sid=375 is:
Howdy!
Let me say right off that the moderators will certainly edit this post -
with a huge grin!!
(Hints of an online message
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At some point hitherto, RABNUD hath spake thusly:
Sheepishly I admit - I have taken a class in Intro to Unix - I can
grep, after a limited fashion, but as a user I''m still a newbie. But
lets not even talk about cron, at, cups, NICs etc.
Well,
At http://news.gnhlug.org/article.php?sid=375 is:
you only type what they tell you toRunning a Linux box means you are
your own sysadmin. This is something
that you don''t get so much with some other operating systemsyou will
inevitably have to understand the response from man tar.But I still
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At some point hitherto, Derek D. Martin hath spake thusly:
I'm not familiar with any of the others. In print, you might also
look for I'Reilly's Running Linux and/or Linux Unleashed which I
think is a SAMS publication, but I'm not sure.
And how
At http://news.gnhlug.org/article.php?sid=375 is:
Installed Linuxes 40 times. Success (relative success) only came via
GUI installs: Slackware once got to 640 x 480 1 bit color, and since I
wasn''t already an X Expert Back to Mandrake 8.1 I went.
Before I went back to Mandrake, no CLI help
At http://news.gnhlug.org/article.php?sid=375 is:
Try launching a cli email client when you don''t know one exists, try
connecting to a POP3 server when you think POP is a drink, try printing
email messages when the xserver is down and you never printed from a DOS
prompt most M$ people I
At http://news.gnhlug.org/article.php?sid=375 is:
They''ve worked great for over 30 yearsAt one time I was a newbie and
didn''t have a clue about Unix, but I got through by reading man pages,
asking questions on mailing lists and usenet, and surfing the web.
And behind you there was a
RABNUD wrote:
A minimal system should still provide help for a newbie
The first time I surreptitiously sat down at a VMS screen, the only
command I could think to type was 'help'. And the response was so
complete that I instantly fell in love. Theretofore my experience
with online
At http://news.gnhlug.org/article.php?sid=375 is:
I''ll toss around ideas with anyone, or walk them through an install or
whatever ... but I won''t make it sound easy. It isn''t. But it''s
doable, and it can become easier. It''s just more different than they
expected - because it''s better. :)
At http://news.gnhlug.org/article.php?sid=375 is:
Ah! thats fine, I just got confused since the 2 LUGs webpages share a
common GUI.
Fortunately, I had registered here/there (where am I??) a few weeks ago,
so I could also reply *there*.
BTW: Newbies would know the difference between the 2
At http://news.gnhlug.org/article.php?sid=375 is:
Getting warmer!
*
To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body.
I think you're missing the point.
There are always people around to help out in a crisis (this list is a perfect
example). If your system is crashed and you are a newbie, you're probably going to
have to get an expert to help. I don't think that you will find that, for example,
X will always
At http://news.gnhlug.org/article.php?sid=375 is:
what is it exactly that you want to learn NEXT?I can tell you how I got
started with Linux. I was taking Unix System Administrationadministering
Unix-like systems, Linux included, hasn''t really changed all that much
on a fundamental level, in
At http://news.gnhlug.org/article.php?sid=375 is:
This list is only accessed by a box which can surf, a crashed box
usually requires expert skill to surf - you got that far...
But lets not lose track of the goal because step 2 fails... we need only
2 more steps!!
Where does this concept
In a message dated: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 18:37:41 EST
Bill Sconce said:
Truly so. And the man pages have no index;
Why do people keep saying this? Has no one ever used 'whatis',
'apropos', or 'man -k'? What more of an index do you need?
I'm not trying to be a pain the butt, condescending,
In a message dated: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 19:48:49 EST
Greg Kettmann said:
Sorry to pipe in, but I must. The fact is that the learning / use curve of
Linux, particularly compared to Windows, is very high.
Yes, that's absolutely true. But look at the reason why! What were
they each designed to
- Original Message -
From: Ken D'Ambrosio [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Rich C [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: GNHLUG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: Interesting Newbie article at CentraLUG.org
On Wed, 2002-02-13 at 17:45, Rich C wrote:
Right, the man pages
On Wed, 13 Feb 2002, RABNUD wrote:
At http://news.gnhlug.org/article.php?sid=375 is:
I''ll toss around ideas with anyone, or walk them through an install or
whatever ... but I won''t make it sound easy. It isn''t. But it''s
doable, and it can become easier. It''s just more different than
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At some point hitherto, Rich C hath spake thusly:
What is needed in a help system is something like what VMS had, but for
subject keywords like backup, restore, copy, directory, and stuff like that.
The help system doesn't really have to do much
What appears to be a rather frustrated newbie posted the following
article at the CentraLUG web site:
http://www.centralug.org/article.php?sid=37
*
To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with the text
*** On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 at 3:30pm Bruce Dawson shared this with the class::
What appears to be a rather frustrated newbie posted the following
article at the CentraLUG web site:
http://www.centralug.org/article.php?sid=37
Anyone have ideas on how to help. I think he has a decent idea.
I'm not so sure I agree. I should preface the following with the fact that,
although I am not newbie, I am certainly not an expert.
I think that there is something to be said for arming yourself with as much book
knowledge as possible, especially when experience is lacking *before* you take on
*** On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 at 1:36pm Michael Costolo shared this with the class::
I think that there is something to be said for arming yourself with as much book
knowledge as possible, especially when experience is lacking *before* you take on
something like a new operating system. There is no
Yes, I think it is how we learn. Break things, try to figure them out, and get help
when you need it. But when you break something and someone else fixes it for you
(you only type what they tell you to), I think you miss out on the learning
experience. Running a Linux box means you are your
PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 3:30 PM
Subject: Interesting Newbie article at CentraLUG.org
What appears to be a rather frustrated newbie posted the following
article at the CentraLUG web site:
http://www.centralug.org/article.php?sid=37
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At some point hitherto, Mansur, Warren hath spake thusly:
I was actually on a newsgroup where someone had never user tar before.
They read the man page, and after trying and trying to understand all
the options they just got frustrated and posted
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At some point hitherto, Ray Bowles hath spake thusly:
have walked at least 6 of my friends through Linux installs,
Bind/Apache/Sendmail/MySQL and other installs and never once did I say
RTFM.
That's great! But it's really hard to do that in an
Well, as another newbie I guess I'll chime in here with a few
lighthearted comments.
Bottom line -- its not easy being a newbie ;0)
Its fun to hear something of what's going on for the experts on this
list, but most of the time I don't understand what is being
discussed. That's okay, its
Michael,
I would say that some of the challenges you face are arch
specific (choosing to start on PPC). Now this isn't a criticism, but the
problem you run into is that while there are probably a handleful of
people on this list that can help you with doing X, booting a PPC machine
I've been using Linux (with varying success, ya), since Yggdrasil days.
Everything which has been written here seems valid to me. (Yes,
including the post which is latest as I write this, which is
essentially YARTFM (believe it or not.))
Among the sapient (IMO) comments:
Michael Bovee wrote:
On Tue, 12 Feb 2002, Bill Sconce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Truly so. And the man pages have no index;
Not a full index, but man -k keyword (aka apropos(1)) and whatis(1)
are fairly useful for this. No?
The gnu special: man -K keyword is slow (at least on my old HW) but I
guess technically
Sorry to pipe in, but I must. The fact is that the learning / use curve of
Linux, particularly compared to Windows, is very high. I completely agree
that the man pages are confusing. They often lack real world examples as
well. This can be very imposing to the new user. The response well
*** On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 at 5:43pm Derek D. Martin shared this with the class::
That's great! But it's really hard to do that in an e-mail...
And of course they learn less by having you do it for them, if they
are at all like most people.
I find that not to be the case. In my example
On Tue, 12 Feb 2002, Derek D. Martin wrote:
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At some point hitherto, Greg Kettmann hath spake thusly:
It has always amazed me just how recalcitrant the Linux community is about
making the system easier to use. Note that I didn't say less
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