Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

Hi Everyone, I’m pleased to announce that the summary (and eminently more readable) version of OSI’s Common Ground paper is now available on the Emerald Open platform at https://emeraldopenresearch.com/documents/2-18. We welcome your feedback (emailing me directly is fine). If you have a

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

Very interesting data! I guess I should clarify, though, that what I meant by HSS was what is taught in traditional liberal arts colleges and would then not include fields like business and management, biobehavioral studies, sports management, journalism, and any number of other

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

Hi Florence, Not sure Fifa is necessarily the best example, but I know what you mean: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/nov/06/fifa-scandal-fbi-new-york-trial-chuck-blazer-sepp-blatter Gary On 22/04/2020 01:52, Florence Piron wrote: > I believe that FIFA is close to the idea of

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

A fair amount of Google research does end up published. It's impossible to know what percentage. However, there is not the "publish or perish" pressure on Google researchers to publish. In most cases, they are encourged to engage with the broader research community via attendance at relevant

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

David Wojick, 21/04/20 21:52: > I dislike metaphors in reasoning but in the travel case the publishers are > more like the official who approves your visa to enter their country, for a > fee. Not really, more like the taxi driver of a taxi cartel which for some reason is the only connection to

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

A lot of industry research is directly related to products and services so the results are proprietary. As an example, after I discovered the issue tree I was getting sole source federal contracts to do them, because only I knew how. So I never published anything on them. Google does more R

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

I dislike metaphors in reasoning but in the travel case the publishers are more like the official who approves your visa to enter their country, for a fee. The idea that one can restructure an industry without consulting the leading producers strikes me as unlikely to work. It is a coup and

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

Good point Heather---which precisely why we’ve been trying to get more active researchers into the group. “Researchers” are a highly diverse group, though, with needs varying by field, institution, region, career stage, etc. It’s going to take a unique effort to understand these needs better

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

I believe the ones who "really live and breathe these issues on a daily basis" are actually the researchers and public and policy makers who can't get access to research they need to improve society. They, and many others who share their views (myself included), don't participate in the OSI

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

Hi Peter, Sorry. The web list can be hard to parse because it’s alphabetical by first name and not sortable by stakeholder group, plus it hasn’t been updated in a while. But there are actually around a dozen active researchers in OSI (actually more---that’s just their “primary” designation

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

One would expect that industry researchers are doing applied science almost exclusively while academic researchers include many who do theoretical science. I can't imagine that any industry researchers are investigating string theory or parallel universes! From:

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

Hi Kathleen, It’s definitely a challenge to try to relay the lessons of experience from OSI while at the same time trying to make clear that there are a wide variety of opinions inside this group. I’ve deliberately tried to avoid making statements like “OSI believes” in our reports. I

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

Thanks for outlining this. There are 300-400 people on the OSI list. I could not find: * any researchers * any doctors/medics * anyone from the Global South But there are 9 directors from Elsevier. And everyone else is director of this, chief of that, CEO of the other. In the early days of OA in

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

Glen, You are woefully misrepresenting the OSI “community” to the world. As someone that was invited and attended one OSI meeting (and then was added to the mailing list), that does not imply that I am part of the OSI community. Nor does in mean that I participated in the development of this

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 10:48 AM Samuel Moore wrote: I share Sam's concerns. > I’d be interested to hear more on the 'high-level' focus of your group and > whether you see it as antagonistic to non-high-level approaches. Put > another way, are you not simply looking for common ground between

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

Hi Glenn, Thanks for sharing this report with the list. I may need to read this again in more detail, but one thing I don’t quite understand is the focus on ‘high-level experts’. You write: ‘There has never been an inclusive, global effort to bring everyone together first—broadly, at scale and

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

Hi David, In reply to your statement, “that people with fundamental disagreements can agree on general principles does nothing to resolve those disagreements,” I deeply disagree. To my knowledge and experience---which, granted, appears to differ from yours---agreeing on general principles

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

This all sounds good but I do not see it working as an approach to conflict resolution. That people with fundamental disagreements can agree on general principles does nothing to resolve those disagreements. For example, librarians want lower costs but publishers do not want reduced revenues.

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

I beg to differ, David. Take a look at the paper’s references section for a list of suggested reading on this approach. Also take a look at agreements like the Columbia River Treaty , which aren’t based on “divide

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

My point is there may well be no such actions. Policy is normally a realm of compromise, where no one gets what they want, not a matter of finding common ground. Seeking common ground strikes me as an odd model for conflict resolution. David > On Apr 20, 2020, at 4:43 PM, Hinchliffe, Lisa W

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

Most is annex material  But I’ll send you the summary link when it’s available (hopefully next week). In the interim, the Cliff Notes version is that the entire scholarly communication community, large and small, for-profit and non-profit recognizes many of the same fundamental interests

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

Well, David, yes - that's exactly what Plan A calls for ... engaging in inquiry to find those actions. -- Lisa Janicke Hinchliffe Professor/ Coordinator for Information Literacy Services and Instruction University Library, University of Illinois, 1408 West Gregory Drive, Urbana, Illinois 61801

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

In support to Sandy's second point, It is striking how the “common ground” idea overlooks the dialectical opposition between ends and means: * The objective of a “for profit publisher” is, as the name says it, to make profits by the means of publishing; * Whereas a “not for profit”

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

Yes, of course, but presumably we are looking for actionable common ground, not just shared beliefs. David > On Apr 20, 2020, at 4:20 PM, Hinchliffe, Lisa W wrote: > > Common ground between those two appears to me to be the belief that there > should be scholarly journals. (Which, of course,

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

Glen, all. You will never get everyone in the world to agree about anything. There are still people who don’t agree that climate change is real. But that should not stop us from doing what is right and is now, so obviously, a moral imperative. I’m not going to get into a protracted

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

Common ground between those two appears to me to be the belief that there should be scholarly journals. (Which, of course, is not a view that everyone holds. But ... even then, I think there is common ground that "scholarly communication is a worthwhile activity" ). -- Lisa Janicke

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

Glenn, It is 107 pages! In the interim, which may be long, here is a simple example. There is a sizable school of thought that says journals should not be published by commercial (for profit) publishers. Then there are the commercial publishers, who publish a sizable fraction of the journals.

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

Hi Kathleen, I wish you well with your work and am interested in helping. But if I may, I’d like to reply to two points in your email. The first is with regard to “ambition.” I think it’s fair to say that both of these efforts are on the audacious end of the ambition scale. Our view,

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

Hi Richard, I didn’t notice your question about cOAlition S overlap with COAR. There is probably some small overlap in institutional membership, but most of the COAR members are not funders and cOAlition S members generally are funders. That said, COAR and cOAlition S are working together in

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

Hi David, I encourage you to read the paper and let me know what you think (on-list or direct): http://plan-a.world/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/OSI-policy-perspective-2-final.pdf. I apologize for the length of this---the summary version hasn’t been published yet. Best, Glenn

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

I suspect there are lots of limits to common ground. In fact the hypothesis that there is significant common ground strikes me as untested, much less proven, especially if one includes the more radical positions. David Wojick > On Apr 20, 2020, at 1:54 PM, Thatcher, Sanford Gray wrote: > > I

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

Hi Richard, The sums are indeed vanishingly small---US$5000 in late 2019, and only after lots of begging on my part  Commercial publishers are, as far as I can tell, in a serious “hunkering down” mode at the moment, at least with regard to supporting efforts like OSI that are trying to

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

I also wish that Kathleen had answered this part of my question: “How many members of COAR are also members of cOAlition S?" There is a public list of COAR members and a public list of signatories to Plan S. I would have thought that if somebody want to know the level of overlap they could

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

I have two brief comments to add to this thread. 1) On the question of translation, ir strikes me that automatic translation, however imperfect, could be satisfactory for certain scholarly purposes but not others. We don;t always need an elegant translation to get the gist of what is being

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

Hi Kathleen, Richard, Can I suggest another way to look at these questions? First some background. As you know, the Open Scholarship Initiative (OSI) is launching Plan A today (http://plan-a.world). Plan A is OSI’s 2020-25 action plan, representing five years of deep thinking that OSI

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 6:39 AM Richard Poynder wrote: > “Designing a system that fosters bibliodiversity, while also supporting > research at the international level is extremely challenging. It means > achieving a careful balance between unity and diversity; international and > local; and

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

“Designing a system that fosters bibliodiversity, while also supporting research at the international level is extremely challenging. It means achieving a careful balance between unity and diversity; international and local; and careful coordination across different stakeholder communities and

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

Thank you, Kathleen. COAR's leadership is very much appreciated! Lindsey Lindsey MacCallum (she/her) Archives and Scholarly Communications Librarian Liaison Librarian to the Humanities Mount Saint Vincent University Library 166 Bedford Highway, Halifax NS B3M 2J6 Phone:

Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly Communications: A Call for Action

A terrific paper, well argued and cogent. I urge everyone to read it. Joyce Ogburn Sent from my iPad > On Apr 15, 2020, at 10:53 AM, Kathleen Shearer (via scholcomm Mailing List) > wrote: > >  > (Apologies for the cross posting) > > Dear all, > Today, my colleagues and I are issuing a