Re: [PHP-DEV] deprecating ext/mysql
I agree with Johannes and Oracle/MySQL people : ext/mysqli must be the preferred way to replace ext/mysql. PDO lacks advanced features which wont be available because of PDO internals incompatibility. ext/mysqli is a true MySQL internal API exposure into PHP user land, PDO is not. Moreover, ext/mysqli has a userland API that is really the same as ext/mysql one; it's been a design rule of ext/mysqli to ease a future migration. PDO is really different and needs objects, not every single PHP developper is ready to use object nowadays. Julien.P 2011/7/16 Philip Olson phi...@roshambo.org: Hola friends, Nice feedback so far, and the PHP documentation will begin implementing the ideas presented here, and focus on mysqli but also recommend pdo_mysql. Therefore, the ext/mysql documentation will be improved to strongly recommend the preferred alternatives that have existed since PHP 5.0.0. We'll work on the finer details but it feels like procedural mysqli is a better fit to live alongside the ext/mysql examples, although we don't want to confuse people. Maybe geeks here have ideas regarding this, but a clear useful clutter-free solution will be worked out, which may include adjusting the CSS and involve creative linking. I'll add an example or three soonish. However, there has been some confusion within the PHP community, so to help ease these concerns: - This proposal only deals with documentation/education... so it can be described as an official 'soft deprecation' (no errors or code changes) - When (if?) this extension emits errors, or is removed, is not part of this proposal - There is a 100% chance that additional tasks and ideas will be discussed in the future, which might include: - A conversion tool/guide - A wrapper - A PECL extension - Talking to distros/hosters and apps like wordpress - ... - php.net understands that ext/mysql is popular, and we're handling this with extra care and heck, parts of *.php.net is powered by ext/mysql - Seriously, no need to panic We'll document the reasons why the other MySQL extensions are preferred, but if people want to use the old ext/mysql API with PHP 9.0.0 (just an example) then I'm guessing an old geek out there will make that possible. We, however, will do our best to convince users to move towards the preferred and supported methods, and hopefully write better code along the way because honestly, that's the ultimate goal here. Regards, Philip -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] deprecating ext/mysql
Hi, On Sun, 2011-07-10 at 10:03 -0700, Philip Olson wrote: Greetings PHP geeks, Don't panic! This is not a proposal to add errors or remove this popular extension. Not yet anyway, because it's too popular to do that now. The documentation team is discussing the database security situation, and educating users to move away from the commonly used ext/mysql extension is part of this. Moving away from ext/mysql is not only about security but also about having access to all features of the MySQL database. ext/mysql was built for MySQL 3.23 and only got very few additions since then while mostly keeping compatibility with this old version which makes the code a bit harder to maintain. From top of my head missing features not support be ext/mysql include: * Stored Procedures (can't handle multiple result sets) * Prepared Statements * Encryption (SSL) * Compression * Full Charset support * ... * So moving away from ext/mysql is a good thing. This proposal only deals with education, and requests permission to officially convince people to stop using this old extension. This means: - Add notes that refer to it as deprecated - Recommend and link alternatives - Include examples of alternatives +1 There are two alternative extensions: pdo_mysql and mysqli, with PDO being the PHP way and main focus of future endeavors. Right? Please don't digress into the PDO v2 fiasco here. I'm not sure the current PDO is the alternative. We (= MySQL/ORACLE) focus mostly on mysqli, that's the extension providing access to all current and future features of MySQL. True, many features could be added to PDO but there are two design decision in PDO which make this bad: * The parser used for identifying statement place holders is very basic, as it is implemented in PDO core, not the drivers, which leads to FRs like #54929 or the famous LIKE issue[1] * driver-specific functions are implemented by using __call() which means there is no good introspection mechanism to check whether a feature is available or not in the current setup. Besides these two items there are every now and then reports on PDO_mysql which in fact are caused by limitations in the PDO design which can't be bypassed by the driver implementation. A good abstraction layer would certainly be good for the language but for now we (=MySQL/ORACLE) consider mysqli the preference. What this means to ext/mysql: - Softly deprecate ext/mysql with education (docs) starting today - Not adding E_DEPRECATED errors in 5.4, but revisit for 5.5/6.0 - Add pdo_mysql examples within the ext/mysql docs that mimic the current examples, but occasionally introduce features like prepared statements - Focus energy on cleaning up the pdo_mysql and mysqli documentation - Create a general The MySQL situation document that explains the situation I also want to point to http://forge.mysql.com/wiki/Converting_to_MySQLi wich has a script once developed by Ulf and others to automatically convert code from using ext/mysql to mysqli. I haven't tried it with recent versions of PHP but should still work. The PHP community has been recommending alternatives for several years now, so hopefully this won't be a new concept or shock to most users. :-) johannes [1] The LIKE case goes something like that: ?php $query = $pdo-prepare(SELECT id FROM table LIMT ?, ?); $query-bindValue(1, $_GET[offset]); $query-bindValue(2, $_GET[limit]); $query-execute(); ? So there's some pagination of a result set and the user can browse through the result, looks quite ok, but the result is not a successful query but an error 1064 you have an error in oyur SQL sytax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQK server version for the right syntax to use near ''1', '2'' Which is caused by PDO using PS emulation by default with MySQL (see thread Change Request: Make PDO default to not emulate prepared statements for MySQL from April/May 2011 on this list) and $_GET containing strings while the parser is not context-aware. Of course this can easily be fixed by explicitly binding using PDO::PARAM_INT. -- Johannes Schlüter, ORACLE MySQL Engineering - Connectors And Client Connectivity -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] deprecating ext/mysql
Am 15.07.2011 14:46, schrieb Johannes Schlüter: ext/mysql was built for MySQL 3.23 and only got very few additions since then while mostly keeping compatibility with this old version which makes the code a bit harder to maintain. From top of my head missing features not support be ext/mysql include: * Stored Procedures (can't handle multiple result sets) * Prepared Statements * Encryption (SSL) so far correct * Compression not true client_flags and MYSQL_CLIENT_COMPRESS exists sine nearly 10 years this is a feature which currently sucks with mysqlnd because it is not supported this time signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [PHP-DEV] deprecating ext/mysql
On Fri, 2011-07-15 at 14:56 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote: Am 15.07.2011 14:46, schrieb Johannes Schlüter: ext/mysql was built for MySQL 3.23 and only got very few additions since then while mostly keeping compatibility with this old version which makes the code a bit harder to maintain. From top of my head missing features not support be ext/mysql include: * Stored Procedures (can't handle multiple result sets) * Prepared Statements * Encryption (SSL) so far correct * Compression not true client_flags and MYSQL_CLIENT_COMPRESS exists sine nearly 10 years Thanks for the corrections. this is a feature which currently sucks with mysqlnd because it is not supported this time compression support was added for mysqlnd with r291051 on 2009-11-20 09:12:14 +0100 which translates to 5.3.2, I think. johannes -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] deprecating ext/mysql
Hola friends, Nice feedback so far, and the PHP documentation will begin implementing the ideas presented here, and focus on mysqli but also recommend pdo_mysql. Therefore, the ext/mysql documentation will be improved to strongly recommend the preferred alternatives that have existed since PHP 5.0.0. We'll work on the finer details but it feels like procedural mysqli is a better fit to live alongside the ext/mysql examples, although we don't want to confuse people. Maybe geeks here have ideas regarding this, but a clear useful clutter-free solution will be worked out, which may include adjusting the CSS and involve creative linking. I'll add an example or three soonish. However, there has been some confusion within the PHP community, so to help ease these concerns: - This proposal only deals with documentation/education... so it can be described as an official 'soft deprecation' (no errors or code changes) - When (if?) this extension emits errors, or is removed, is not part of this proposal - There is a 100% chance that additional tasks and ideas will be discussed in the future, which might include: - A conversion tool/guide - A wrapper - A PECL extension - Talking to distros/hosters and apps like wordpress - ... - php.net understands that ext/mysql is popular, and we're handling this with extra care and heck, parts of *.php.net is powered by ext/mysql - Seriously, no need to panic We'll document the reasons why the other MySQL extensions are preferred, but if people want to use the old ext/mysql API with PHP 9.0.0 (just an example) then I'm guessing an old geek out there will make that possible. We, however, will do our best to convince users to move towards the preferred and supported methods, and hopefully write better code along the way because honestly, that's the ultimate goal here. Regards, Philip -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] deprecating ext/mysql
On 07/10/2011 12:03 PM, Philip Olson wrote: Greetings PHP geeks, Don't panic! This is not a proposal to add errors or remove this popular extension. Not yet anyway, because it's too popular to do that now. The documentation team is discussing the database security situation, and educating users to move away from the commonly used ext/mysql extension is part of this. This proposal only deals with education, and requests permission to officially convince people to stop using this old extension. This means: - Add notes that refer to it as deprecated - Recommend and link alternatives - Include examples of alternatives There are two alternative extensions: pdo_mysql and mysqli, with PDO being the PHP way and main focus of future endeavors. Right? Please don't digress into the PDO v2 fiasco here. What this means to ext/mysql: - Softly deprecate ext/mysql with education (docs) starting today - Not adding E_DEPRECATED errors in 5.4, but revisit for 5.5/6.0 - Add pdo_mysql examples within the ext/mysql docs that mimic the current examples, but occasionally introduce features like prepared statements - Focus energy on cleaning up the pdo_mysql and mysqli documentation - Create a general The MySQL situation document that explains the situation The PHP community has been recommending alternatives for several years now, so hopefully this won't be a new concept or shock to most users. Regards, Philip A-frickin'-men! :-) Just today I was talking to a new developer in #PHP in IRC who had code with mysql_* calls in it. I don't know where he found them, but I told him to put them back where he found them right away and use PDO instead. That people are still learning ext/mysql in this day and age is quite sad. There's millions of lines of code out there we can't break yet, but we can absolutely structure documentation so that we don't produce even more PHP developers who mistakenly think that mysql_query() is a good idea. +1 --Larry Garfield -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] deprecating ext/mysql
On 11 July 2011 01:03, Philip Olson phi...@roshambo.org wrote: What this means to ext/mysql: - Softly deprecate ext/mysql with education (docs) starting today - Not adding E_DEPRECATED errors in 5.4, but revisit for 5.5/6.0 - Add pdo_mysql examples within the ext/mysql docs that mimic the current examples, but occasionally introduce features like prepared statements - Focus energy on cleaning up the pdo_mysql and mysqli documentation - Create a general The MySQL situation document that explains the situation I'm hugely +1 on this. (Which won't be a shock to anyone on IRC.) It's time to start softening the user base up for the idea that, one day, ext/mysql will in fact go away, and probably won't be terribly mourned. Adam -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] deprecating ext/mysql
maybe we should get another E_, E_NEARLY_DEPRECATED that way we can set this to that, and then 5.5 we can move it to E_DEPRECATED, that way people have to go read the docs, the amount of people even those who have been in the field for years, that dont know about php.net/func and still look stuff up on google makes me wonder that no matter how soft you make the change by doing it in the docs, wont make that much difference to how people react to it being dropped On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Adam Harvey ahar...@php.net wrote: On 11 July 2011 01:03, Philip Olson phi...@roshambo.org wrote: What this means to ext/mysql: - Softly deprecate ext/mysql with education (docs) starting today - Not adding E_DEPRECATED errors in 5.4, but revisit for 5.5/6.0 - Add pdo_mysql examples within the ext/mysql docs that mimic the current examples, but occasionally introduce features like prepared statements - Focus energy on cleaning up the pdo_mysql and mysqli documentation - Create a general The MySQL situation document that explains the situation I'm hugely +1 on this. (Which won't be a shock to anyone on IRC.) It's time to start softening the user base up for the idea that, one day, ext/mysql will in fact go away, and probably won't be terribly mourned. Adam -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] deprecating ext/mysql
On 7/10/11 10:03 AM, Philip Olson wrote: What this means to ext/mysql: - Softly deprecate ext/mysql with education (docs) starting today - Not adding E_DEPRECATED errors in 5.4, but revisit for 5.5/6.0 - Add pdo_mysql examples within the ext/mysql docs that mimic the current examples, but occasionally introduce features like prepared statements - Focus energy on cleaning up the pdo_mysql and mysqli documentation - Create a general The MySQL situation document that explains the situation +1, though check with the MySQL folk about whether they want mysqli or pdo_mysql to be the recommended path. Chris -- Email: christopher.jo...@oracle.com Tel: +1 650 506 8630 Blog: http://blogs.oracle.com/opal/ -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] deprecating ext/mysql
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 4:41 PM, Christopher Jones christopher.jo...@oracle.com wrote: On 7/10/11 10:03 AM, Philip Olson wrote: What this means to ext/mysql: - Softly deprecate ext/mysql with education (docs) starting today - Not adding E_DEPRECATED errors in 5.4, but revisit for 5.5/6.0 - Add pdo_mysql examples within the ext/mysql docs that mimic the current examples, but occasionally introduce features like prepared statements - Focus energy on cleaning up the pdo_mysql and mysqli documentation - Create a general The MySQL situation document that explains the situation +1, though check with the MySQL folk about whether they want mysqli or pdo_mysql to be the recommended path. Chris Yes, +1 from me too. I do indeed think we need to make this a smooth transition over time. Possibly triggering an E_DEPRECATED for all ext/mysql usage. Just like the introduction of E_DEPRECATED for 5.3 functions, we could apply the same approach here. After 5.4 is released we can put big Deprecated Warning notifications on all php.net/mysql_* functions too. I think we all want this, but to be realistic from a production point of view, many sites will still be using ext/mysql. Regards, Paul Dragoonis. -- Email: christopher.jo...@oracle.com Tel: +1 650 506 8630 Blog: http://blogs.oracle.com/opal/ -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] deprecating ext/mysql
On 2011-07-11, Paul Dragoonis dragoo...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 4:41 PM, Christopher Jones christopher.jo...@oracle.com wrote: On 7/10/11 10:03 AM, Philip Olson wrote: What this means to ext/mysql: - Softly deprecate ext/mysql with education (docs) starting today - Not adding E_DEPRECATED errors in 5.4, but revisit for 5.5/6.0 - Add pdo_mysql examples within the ext/mysql docs that mimic the current examples, but occasionally introduce features like prepared statements - Focus energy on cleaning up the pdo_mysql and mysqli documentation - Create a general The MySQL situation document that explains the situation +1, though check with the MySQL folk about whether they want mysqli or pdo_mysql to be the recommended path. Chris Yes, +1 from me too. I do indeed think we need to make this a smooth transition over time. Possibly triggering an E_DEPRECATED for all ext/mysql usage. Just like the introduction of E_DEPRECATED for 5.3 functions, we could apply the same approach here. After 5.4 is released we can put big Deprecated Warning notifications on all php.net/mysql_* functions too. I think we all want this, but to be realistic from a production point of view, many sites will still be using ext/mysql. And, to my reading, this is exactly the path that was recommended. The point is to start a soft deprecation now via the manual, indicating that users should migrate to other solutions, while simultaneously detailing how to do equivalent operations via ext/mysqli or pdo_mysql. Actual deprecation would happen later. -- Matthew Weier O'Phinney Project Lead| matt...@zend.com Zend Framework | http://framework.zend.com/ PGP key: http://framework.zend.com/zf-matthew-pgp-key.asc -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP-DEV] deprecating ext/mysql
On July-11-11 Matthew Weier O'Phinney wrote: Sent: July-11-11 1:57 PM To: internals@lists.php.net Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] deprecating ext/mysql On 2011-07-11, Paul Dragoonis Yes, +1 from me too. I do indeed think we need to make this a smooth transition over time. Possibly triggering an E_DEPRECATED for all ext/mysql usage. Just like the introduction of E_DEPRECATED for 5.3 functions, we could apply the same approach here. After 5.4 is released we can put big Deprecated Warning notifications on all php.net/mysql_* functions too. I think we all want this, but to be realistic from a production point of view, many sites will still be using ext/mysql. And, to my reading, this is exactly the path that was recommended. The point is to start a soft deprecation now via the manual, indicating that users should migrate to other solutions, while simultaneously detailing how to do equivalent operations via ext/mysqli or pdo_mysql. Actual deprecation would happen later. I haven't looked at the mysql_* section of the manual in 15 years. It would not surprise me to learn that that was one of the least viewed areas of manual. I'd be curious to see what kind of response this suggestion would elicit from the PHP General list. From the MySQL site: We have no plans to remove libmysql support from ext/mysql, ext/mysqli or PDO_MYSQL, which would break existing applications. We just add a new, superior alternative to our PHP offerings. So I'd also be interested to hear what the MySQL folks had to say about this. If a laissez-faire approach is taken a lot of people are going to have bite marks on their behinds. Mike -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] deprecating ext/mysql
Am 10.07.2011 19:03, schrieb Philip Olson: What this means to ext/mysql: - Softly deprecate ext/mysql with education (docs) starting today - Not adding E_DEPRECATED errors in 5.4, but revisit for 5.5/6.0 - Add pdo_mysql examples within the ext/mysql docs that mimic the current examples, but occasionally introduce features like prepared statements - Focus energy on cleaning up the pdo_mysql and mysqli documentation - Create a general The MySQL situation document that explains the situation The PHP community has been recommending alternatives for several years now, so hopefully this won't be a new concept or shock to most users sounds reasonable and i would love to be not forced loading mysql.so AND mysqli.so because some peopole are using legacy code and unwilling to maintain their stuff signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
RE: [PHP-DEV] deprecating ext/mysql
On July-10-11 1:16 PM Reindl Harald wrote: Am 10.07.2011 19:03, schrieb Philip Olson: What this means to ext/mysql: - Softly deprecate ext/mysql with education (docs) starting today - Not adding E_DEPRECATED errors in 5.4, but revisit for 5.5/6.0 - Add pdo_mysql examples within the ext/mysql docs that mimic the - current examples, but occasionally introduce features like - prepared statements - Focus energy on cleaning up the pdo_mysql and mysqli documentation - Create a general The MySQL situation document that explains the - situation The PHP community has been recommending alternatives for several years now, so hopefully this won't be a new concept or shock to most users sounds reasonable and i would love to be not forced loading mysql.so AND mysqli.so because some peopole are using legacy code and unwilling to maintain their stuff Sure, some users in the PHP community are aware of this desire. We're talking about tons of developers, vast amounts of legacy code written over 2 decades - longer than many in that same community have been alive. Most developers out there are not remotely aware of this. IMHO, it doesn't matter how early the education gets started or how much time and sugar is used to coat this, it'll be a bitter pill for a very large group of people. This needs to be thought out very carefully. Best Regards, Mike Robinson -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] deprecating ext/mysql
hi, As I would love to kill ext/mysql, it is up to the mysql developers to decide. Cheers, On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 7:03 PM, Philip Olson phi...@roshambo.org wrote: Greetings PHP geeks, Don't panic! This is not a proposal to add errors or remove this popular extension. Not yet anyway, because it's too popular to do that now. The documentation team is discussing the database security situation, and educating users to move away from the commonly used ext/mysql extension is part of this. This proposal only deals with education, and requests permission to officially convince people to stop using this old extension. This means: - Add notes that refer to it as deprecated - Recommend and link alternatives - Include examples of alternatives There are two alternative extensions: pdo_mysql and mysqli, with PDO being the PHP way and main focus of future endeavors. Right? Please don't digress into the PDO v2 fiasco here. What this means to ext/mysql: - Softly deprecate ext/mysql with education (docs) starting today - Not adding E_DEPRECATED errors in 5.4, but revisit for 5.5/6.0 - Add pdo_mysql examples within the ext/mysql docs that mimic the current examples, but occasionally introduce features like prepared statements - Focus energy on cleaning up the pdo_mysql and mysqli documentation - Create a general The MySQL situation document that explains the situation The PHP community has been recommending alternatives for several years now, so hopefully this won't be a new concept or shock to most users. Regards, Philip -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- Pierre @pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
