David's lace is machine-made but I don't think it's Barmen. From looking at Pat
Earnshaw's books about Lace Machines and Machine Laces I think it is Leavers
Independent. The following is what I've already sent to David (minus the scan):
The rather prominent ridges on the 'cloth stitch' areas
On 27 Oct 2013, at 20:27, Clay Blackwell wrote:
I agree that the cloth stitch in the Barmen is the give-away,
It's machine made, but not Barmen machine which has threads moving almost
exactly as they might in torchon BL. It looks much more like Leavers machine,
and bobbin fining Leavers
Brenda
Thanks for that link. Much better photos and diagrams.
Lorelei
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David
Thank you for the scan of the Beds lace. I'm afraid I still think it is
machine made. http://barmenlace.com/downloads/rehage-catalogue.pdfThis
is a 1 mb catalogue from a Barmen machine lace manufacturer that I found on
line. I tried to isolate just one page, but couldn't. However
I agree that the cloth stitch in the Barmen is the give-away, and sadly, I see
the same thing in this old handkerchief lace. And, the style is very
consistent of the styles in this catalog.
Thanks, Lorelei, for providing that reference.
Clay
Sent from my iPad
On Oct 27, 2013, at 3:28 PM,
I did not want to disappoint David in the first moment, so kept quiet. But
now that Lorelei and Clay have given their opinion, I agree that this piece
of lace is machine made. As Lorelei said, the cloth stitch area and the
tallies reveal that it is not hand made. Nevertheless, it is a beautiful
Oh, Dear Antje !
You flatter me! I probably was presumptuous to respond to Lorelei's opinion!
I am a lacemaker, and I have a keen eye for detail... However, I am not even
close to being as proficient as Lorelei at identifying.
Still, i do recognize the issue with cloth stitch in machine
Dear Lorelei,
I'm sorry to say this, but the clothwork parts in David's piece look a little
suspicious. The passives make vertical ridges. That happens in machine made
laces, not handmade cloth stitch. And the picots on the edge are rather
peculiar, too. Far too long. But I'm not certain.
Those teachers were just being narrow-minded. I've heard that Beds was
started as a modification of Maltese lace, and that's drape-y, so I'll bet
your Beds was more like the original Beds than anything those teachers ever
made! Good for you for framing them and enjoying them.
Nancy
I'm sorry to say this, but the clothwork parts in David's piece look a little
suspicious. The passives make vertical ridges. That happens in machine made
laces, not handmade cloth stitch. And the picots on the edge are rather
peculiar, too. Far too long. But I'm not certain.
Lorelei
-
To
Dear Spiders,
David has sent me pictures of the lovely old handkerchief he described a
few days ago, and I have uploaded them to arachne2003 on Flickr. They
should be the first pictures on the photostream, or you may go to sets
and find them in David's first set.
Clay
Clay Blackwell
.'
Subject: Re: [lace] Old beds
I also started out with a person who enjoyed calling herself a teacher, but who
was actually a terrible teacher.
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Liz Baker said:
I went to a demonstration and the lady giving the talk said
you can't learn lacemaking from a book, you need a teacher
Well! That's just silly! (as my Mum used to say a lot).
When I was 11 (about 1953), I found a book on tatting, Mum let me buy
it and all the thread, shuttles
Jane Partridge wrote:
Check the way the pairs go in and out of the trails to do the plaits and
tallies - Beds
trails carry passive pairs that go in and out of the trail, keeping the
trail workers to work back and forth, but Cluny swaps the trail workers
into the plaits.
It's not as
Hi Jean:
Thanks for this. Interesting to finally have some hard data in the lacemaking
world!
I remember as a very new lacemaker, being haughtily told that a piece of
Honiton I had made was actually something else (Whithof? Brussels?) because of
the way I had done a join. I had taken the
Funny how a thoughtless word can hurt and influence us so much when we are
starting out. I saw a pattern in a book and went to my lace teacher with it.
I said that it would be perfect as a present for my mother as a piece for her
dolls house. It was pattern 106b from Pamela Nottingham's
Liz, you said it best. I was fortunate and had two of the best instructors
and the bestest mentor when i started out. my mentor taught herself
Milanese for me to learn from her. what better foundation could anyone
get? i will never forget either person and have remained in contact even
after
.
-Original Message-
From: The Lacebee thelace...@btinternet.com
To: Arachne list lace@arachne.com
Sent: Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:39 pm
Subject: Re: [lace] Old beds
...As a teacher it is your duty to guide and encourage every student to make
the
best of their abilities and ensure that they enjoy
Many of our older more set in their way teachers, say you have to learn
things in a set order. It is often the way they learnt or were taught.
Has anyone thought that this may be why young people are not taking up
lace? Our young people want to fly before they learn to walk but often
they do
I also started out with a person who enjoyed calling herself a teacher, but who
was actually a terrible teacher. She hated that I wanted to move on beyond her
boring exercises into real lace. So I just armed myself with recommended (by
Arachne) books and worked on my own with occasional trips
Dennis Hornsby once said to me that if I had been born in Buckinghamshire and
learnt lace during its heyday, I would have learnt bucks point and nothing
else. So why did i think I had to learn in an order?
I can see a progression from nice lace to another in the same way we can see
how one
Our lace group is small (about 20 members) but we currently have a couple of
really kind and generous members who are willing to baby sit those of us with
less confidence and knowledge. They lead without pushing and not only tell
us how to do it, but also show us how to determine where to go on
I made 3 Beds hankies from Springett patterns, - but I used a fine silk
thread not cotton, - and a couple of teachers went Yuk when they saw
them - as they were soft and 'floppy not stiff and crisp, laying over the
hand. Which is what Beds lace is supposed to do - according to them.
I was
I heard today that the IOLI Bulletin was mailed a couple of weeks late.
As far as teaching..I went to a demonstration and the woman doing bobbin
lace told me you can't learn on your own. I have been slowly working
through some of the books and I think I am doing pretty good. I run into
Hi All,
When I started making lace I already had a pretty good idea of the
direction I wanted to take, namely Beds and Maltese. I took a week long
course and one of the first things we did was a Russian flower that was big
enough to take us at least 2 days to finish - we certainly knew how to
Jean,
Thanks for posting about your study on beds lace. I am presently
working on a design taken from a Thomas Lester lappet that has been adapted by
Holly Van Sciver and enjoying every minute of it. I started at convention
this summer and as the pattern had not been worked before I did not
I went to a demonstration and the lady giving the talk said you can't learn
lacemaking from a book, you need a teacher
I had 6 lessons and made two things. A strip of white cloth stitch 3mm wide
and 30cm long and a strip of half stitch the same length. It was a though she
didn't want us to
Dear Friends,
tonight a friend of mine showed me an old handkerchief which she said
was her grandmother's (b. 1890) and possibly older.
It was some of the finest Bedfordshire lace I'd seen, mounted onto
some gorgeous almost see though silk with a few rounds of punch work
in it. There were no
If it is Bedfordshire, not Maltese or Cluny, then the earliest date is
likely to be 1852, as its development from Bucks came from inspiration
from these laces at the Great Exhibition at Crystal Palace in 1851, as
the designs were quicker to work and harder for the machines to copy.
Cluny can
Jane - Maltese was also worked in fine cotton thread, which was grown and
processed on the islands at the time. There are also instances, but not as
common then, of fine linen being used. It is believed that linen was also
made here at some stage.
The early Maltese lace did not have the Maltese
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