Lance Collins wrote:
Damien Gerard wrote:
Normal users read the documentation because you cannot play a game
without knowing the rules. They already know how to use Delphi when
they were a little baby ? ^^) and some modifications are necessary.
As far I know this is planned for Lazarus =1.0,
Don't get me wrong, but some discussions are useless and do more harm
than good for the Lazarus. project imho. This is one of hem. Normally I
would simply not answer. But this takes too long imho, and too much time
which can be spend much better.
Op dinsdag 15-01-2008 om 13:10 uur [tijdzone
Op woensdag 16-01-2008 om 09:54 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Joost van
der Sluis:
Don't get me wrong, but some discussions are useless and do more harm
than good for the Lazarus. project imho. This is one of hem. Normally
I
would simply not answer. But this takes too long imho, and too much
Hi to all,
2008/1/16, Joost van der Sluis [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
No I am answering - to myself even:
Op woensdag 16-01-2008 om 11:18 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Joost van
der Sluis:
A thing which does matter, if the amount of memory the application uses
while running. I'm still annoyed by
No I am answering - to myself even:
Op woensdag 16-01-2008 om 11:18 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Joost van
der Sluis:
A thing which does matter, if the amount of memory the application uses
while running. I'm still annoyed by the fact that the 'clock' in the
corner of my screen consumes 5MB
OK guys now I OFFICIALLY close this very long, long thread! :)
Are you trying to create an patch ?
If not please inform me than i will do.
_
To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
unsubscribe as the
Hi,
2008/1/16, Christian U. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
OK guys now I OFFICIALLY close this very long, long thread! :)
Are you trying to create an patch ?
If not please inform me than i will do.
I have just found a method to move ALL the debug data and symbols to
an external .dbg file, obtaining a
At 18:37 16-1-2008, you wrote:
Hi,
2008/1/16, Christian U. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
OK guys now I OFFICIALLY close this very long, long thread! :)
Are you trying to create an patch ?
If not please inform me than i will do.
I have just found a method to move ALL the debug data and symbols to
an
Hi,
2008/1/16, Peter Vreman [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
At 18:37 16-1-2008, you wrote:
Hi,
2008/1/16, Christian U. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
OK guys now I OFFICIALLY close this very long, long thread! :)
Are you trying to create an patch ?
If not please inform me than i will do.
I have just
Fabio Dell'Aria wrote:
Hi,
2008/1/16, Peter Vreman [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
At 18:37 16-1-2008, you wrote:
Hi,
2008/1/16, Christian U. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
OK guys now I OFFICIALLY close this very long, long thread! :)
Are you trying to create an patch ?
If not please inform me than i will do.
I
$ gdb lazarus.exe
(gdb) br main
No symbol table is loaded. Use the file command.
(gdb) symbol-file lazarus1.dbg
Reading symbols from /cygdrive/d/lazarus/lazarus.dbg...done.
(gdb) br main
Breakpoint 1 at 0x401bf9: file lazarus.pp, line 77.
(gdb)
I need 3 steps because I don not change the mode
Fabio Dell'Aria schreef:
Hi to all,
all we know how many new users do not uses lazarus because it create too
BIG compiled files.
We know that:
1)...the additional options are needed to can debug the project;
2)...just do a simple strip --strip-all filename reduce drastically
the final size
Hi Vincent,
2008/1/15, Vincent Snijders [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Fabio Dell'Aria schreef:
Hi to all,
all we know how many new users do not uses lazarus because it create too
BIG compiled files.
We know that:
1)...the additional options are needed to can debug the project;
2)...just
Fabio Dell'Aria schreef:
Yes I understand but why loose so many new users?
All the programmers come from Delphi reports this issue and only a
little subset of them check for a solution on Google.
Others are lost!
So what? It is their loss. If they cannot even find out how to do this, how
Fabio Dell'Aria schreef:
Others benefits:
1)...speedup compilation (allocated less memory and write less bytes on
disk).
2)...decreases Installation size;
3)...do not confuse new users with LCL code, during the debugging process.
I think it can be set as an installation
Please, provide
Others benefits:
1)...speedup compilation (allocated less memory and write less bytes on
disk).
2)...decreases Installation size;
3)...do not confuse new users with LCL code, during the debugging process.
I think it can be set as an installation or a Project option (as in Delphi
for the Use
Ciao Fabio,
all we know how many new users do not uses lazarus because it create too
BIG compiled files.
imho, this is not the reason because many new users don't use Lazarus. I
believe first one is that they don't trust in opensource software, which
instead is a winner choice, always imho,
Yes I understand but why loose so many new users?
All the programmers come from Delphi reports this issue and only a little
subset of them check for a solution on Google.
Others are lost!
This kind of programmers don't deserve to develope with Lazarus and FPC ;-).
Just joking a bit ! :-)
HI,
2008/1/15, Antonio Sanguigni [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Yes I understand but why loose so many new users?
All the programmers come from Delphi reports this issue and only a
little subset of them check for a solution on Google.
Others are lost!
This kind of programmers don't deserve to
Hi,
2008/1/15, Vincent Snijders [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Fabio Dell'Aria schreef:
Yes I understand but why loose so many new users?
All the programmers come from Delphi reports this issue and only a
little subset of them check for a solution on Google.
Others are lost!
So what? It is
Fabio Dell'Aria schreef:
But if a solution exists why do not use it?
I do not understand! :(
Because it excludes the use of debug information for users that want
that
information. Removing it is trivial, adding it much harder.
Can be created different
Yes I understand but why loose so many new users?
All the programmers come from Delphi reports this issue and only a little
subset of them check for a solution on Google.
Others are lost!
One doesn't loose much users that way. People that are so easily turned off,
will always find something
I think to be the typical example of the average user, so I'll give my
opinion as well.
- I don't care about the download size, so I am fine with downloading
the full debugging objects files
- I don't care about hard disk size (being anyone not too much for
nowadays): the installer could run the
Fabio Dell'Aria schreef:
or a Project option (as in
Delphi for the Use Debug DCUs compiler option)!
How is this different from using the correct compiler options?
Using only the -Xs compiler option remove all the debug info and is
impossible debug my project, my option
Hi,
2008/1/15, Vincent Snijders [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Fabio Dell'Aria schreef:
Others benefits:
1)...speedup compilation (allocated less memory and write less bytes on
disk).
2)...decreases Installation size;
3)...do not confuse new users with LCL code, during the debugging
process.
Hi,
2008/1/15, Vincent Snijders [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Fabio Dell'Aria schreef:
But if a solution exists why do not use it?
I do not understand! :(
Because it excludes the use of debug information for users that want
that
information.
Vincent Snijders ha scritto:
Fabio Dell'Aria schreef:
Others benefits:
1)...speedup compilation (allocated less memory and write less bytes
on disk).
2)...decreases Installation size;
3)...do not confuse new users with LCL code, during the debugging
process.
I think it can be set as an
1)...the additional options are needed to can debug the project;
2)...just do a simple strip --strip-all filename reduce drastically the
final size (an empty project go from 12.5Mb to 1.2 Mb).
I think to have found a really simple solution to can continue to debug our
project with a really
So why do not use the dwarf debug format (excuse my ignorance) ?
2008/1/15, Peter Vreman [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
1)...the additional options are needed to can debug the project;
2)...just do a simple strip --strip-all filename reduce drastically
the
final size (an empty project go from 12.5Mb
If the debugger gdb can support the dwarf debug info the size of the
binary will be already a lot
smaller. So it isn't a problem of FPC but of the debuggers what debuginfo
is supported. See below
what the difference on the lazarus binary:
~/lazarus ls -l lazarus-*
-rwxr-xr-x 1 pvreman kmem
Fabio Dell'Aria wrote:
Hi to all,
all we know how many new users do not uses lazarus because it create too
BIG compiled files.
We know that:
1)...the additional options are needed to can debug the project;
2)...just do a simple strip --strip-all filename reduce drastically
the final size
On Jan 15, 2008, at 4:02 PM, Andrew Brunner wrote:
Vincent:
IOW: I expect Lazarus users to be knowledgeable, Lazarus is not for
fools.
I offer you all this. The #1 reason why Microsoft Windows (3 and
up) took
off and became so popular was Visual Basic for idiots and Turbo
Pascal /
I just put this in After Complilation:
..\..\IDE\fpc\2.2.0\bin\i386-win32\strip.exe --strip-all $(TargetFile)
I have to run this command only when I do a full build. Seems to work
pretty well.
That's what I've been doing as well. As I said, it's just one command
away, yet it's so simple.
Andrew Brunner schreef:
Vincent:
IOW: I expect Lazarus users to be knowledgeable, Lazarus is not for
fools.
I offer you all this. The #1 reason why Microsoft Windows (3 and up) took
off and became so popular was Visual Basic for idiots and Turbo Pascal /
Delphi for the coders between
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008, Andrew Brunner wrote:
Vincent:
IOW: I expect Lazarus users to be knowledgeable, Lazarus is not for
fools.
I offer you all this. The #1 reason why Microsoft Windows (3 and up) took
off and became so popular was Visual Basic for idiots and Turbo Pascal /
Vincent:
IOW: I expect Lazarus users to be knowledgeable, Lazarus is not for
fools.
I offer you all this. The #1 reason why Microsoft Windows (3 and up) took
off and became so popular was Visual Basic for idiots and Turbo Pascal /
Delphi for the coders between C++ and VB.
The long term
Hi,
2008/1/15, Andrew Brunner [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Vincent:
IOW: I expect Lazarus users to be knowledgeable, Lazarus is not for
fools.
I offer you all this. The #1 reason why Microsoft Windows (3 and up) took
off and became so popular was Visual Basic for idiots and Turbo Pascal /
Delphi
Am 15.01.2008 um 17:02 schrieb Andrew Brunner:
Vincent:
IOW: I expect Lazarus users to be knowledgeable, Lazarus is not for
fools.
I offer you all this. The #1 reason why Microsoft Windows (3 and
up) took
off and became so popular was Visual Basic for idiots and Turbo
Pascal /
Delphi
Zero time. This checkbox exists:
Menu: Project|Compiler options
Tab: 'Linking'
Checkbox: 'Strip symbols from Executable (-Xs)'
So what is the problem ?
The size remains the same for me (Ubuntu).
--
Damien Gerard
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Le temps n'a pas d'importance. Seul le code est
Am 15.01.2008 um 17:11 schrieb Vincent Snijders:
Andrew Brunner schreef:
Vincent: IOW: I expect Lazarus users to be knowledgeable,
Lazarus is not for
fools.
I offer you all this. The #1 reason why Microsoft Windows (3 and
up) took
off and became so popular was Visual Basic for idiots
Hi,
2008/1/15, Bee [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
I just put this in After Complilation:
..\..\IDE\fpc\2.2.0\bin\i386-win32\strip.exe --strip-all $(TargetFile)
I have to run this command only when I do a full build. Seems to work
pretty well.
That's what I've been doing as well. As I said, it's
On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 05:44:15PM +0200, Albert Zeyer wrote:
Andrew Brunner schreef:
Vincent: IOW: I expect Lazarus users to be knowledgeable, Lazarus is
not for
fools.
I offer you all this. The #1 reason why Microsoft Windows (3 and up)
took
off and became so popular was Visual Basic
IMO Lazarus has serious potential to rival that of Java. It just needs more
time and backing.
On desktop application, it already does a tough rival to Java, besides
wxWidgets.
But on web application, FPC/Lazarus is still far behind Java. GWT add
more distance. FPC's CGI framework (if it's
On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 10:02:28AM -0500, Andrew Brunner wrote:
I offer you all this. The #1 reason why Microsoft Windows (3 and up) took
off and became so popular was Visual Basic for idiots and Turbo Pascal /
Delphi for the coders between C++ and VB.
Or because the people poured in a
-Original Message-
From: Andrew Brunner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 08:02
To: lazarus@miraclec.com
Subject: RE: [lazarus] Solution to the BIG compiled file issue!
Vincent:
IOW: I expect Lazarus users to be knowledgeable, Lazarus
Andrew Brunner wrote:
Vincent:
IOW: I expect Lazarus users to be knowledgeable, Lazarus is not for
fools.
I offer you all this. The #1 reason why Microsoft Windows (3 and up) took
off and became so popular was Visual Basic for idiots and Turbo Pascal /
Delphi for the coders between C++
On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 04:15:46PM +0100, Marius wrote:
Fabio Dell'Aria wrote:
Hi to all,
all we know how many new users do not uses lazarus because it create too
BIG compiled files.
I cannot find the original thread, but i believe i have read something
about a Debug/Release
On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 06:28:12PM +0200, Albert Zeyer wrote:
I've no idea what you mean by that remark.
Linux became popular because it was/is easy to install. (OK, not gained by
the Linux kernel developers itself but by the community around.)
Linux got a lot of funding due to hype. And
Peter Vreman wrote:
If the debugger gdb can support the dwarf debug info the size of the
binary will be already a lot
smaller. So it isn't a problem of FPC but of the debuggers what debuginfo
is supported. See below
what the difference on the lazarus binary:
~/lazarus ls -l lazarus-*
-rwxr-xr-x
Vincent Snijders schrieb:
Fabio Dell'Aria schreef:
Yes I understand but why loose so many new users?
All the programmers come from Delphi reports this issue and only a
little subset of them check for a solution on Google.
Others are lost!
So what? It is their loss. If they cannot even
We need a native debugger support for FPC/Lazarus programs on all
platforms.That's the big issue everyone seems to avoid talking about...
Boguslaw
An initial development this is at Lazarus\debugger\windebug\fpwd by Marc.
Is it stopped?
--
Att,
Wanderlan Santos dos Anjos
Am 15.01.2008 um 18:35 schrieb Marco van de Voort:
On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 06:28:12PM +0200, Albert Zeyer wrote:
I've no idea what you mean by that remark.
Linux became popular because it was/is easy to install. (OK, not
gained by
the Linux kernel developers itself but by the community
Fabio Dell'Aria schrieb:
Hi to all,
all we know how many new users do not uses lazarus because it create too
BIG compiled files.
We know that:
1)...the additional options are needed to can debug the project;
2)...just do a simple strip --strip-all filename reduce drastically
the final
Vincent Snijders schrieb:
Fabio Dell'Aria schreef:
Yes I understand but why loose so many new users?
All the programmers come from Delphi reports this issue and only a
little subset of them check for a solution on Google.
Others are lost!
So what? It is their loss. If they cannot even
Zero time. This checkbox exists:
Menu: Project|Compiler options
Tab: 'Linking'
Checkbox: 'Strip symbols from Executable (-Xs)'
So what is the problem ?
You cant debug after this if you just strip debug code from lcl you can
debug you App and Executable is small.
Its an great Option.
Lukas Gradl schreef:
Do you really think, Lazarus should only exist to develop Lazarus? For
creating a successful and strong development tool (which is the goal of
the whole project AFAIK) you need not only contributors but users as
well...
Why needs Lazarus users that contribute
Vincent Snijders schrieb:
Lukas Gradl schreef:
Do you really think, Lazarus should only exist to develop Lazarus?
For creating a successful and strong development tool (which is the
goal of the whole project AFAIK) you need not only contributors but
users as well...
Why needs Lazarus
Vincent Snijders wrote:
Lukas Gradl schreef:
Do you really think, Lazarus should only exist to develop Lazarus? For
creating a successful and strong development tool (which is the goal
of the whole project AFAIK) you need not only contributors but users
as well...
Why needs Lazarus
Christian U. schreef:
Vincent Snijders schrieb:
Fabio Dell'Aria schreef:
Yes I understand but why loose so many new users?
All the programmers come from Delphi reports this issue and only a
little subset of them check for a solution on Google.
Others are lost!
So what? It is their loss.
Christian U. schreef:
Vincent Snijders schrieb:
Lukas Gradl schreef:
Do you really think, Lazarus should only exist to develop Lazarus?
Lazarus exists to develop Object Pascal programs with FPC.
For creating a successful and strong development tool (which is the
goal of the whole
Hi Vincent,
2008/1/15, Vincent Snijders [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Christian U. schreef:
Vincent Snijders schrieb:
Lukas Gradl schreef:
Do you really think, Lazarus should only exist to develop Lazarus?
Lazarus exists to develop Object Pascal programs with FPC.
For creating a
Am 15.01.2008 um 20:26 schrieb Vincent Snijders:
For creating a successful and strong development tool (which is
the goal of the whole project AFAIK) you need not only
contributors but users as well...
Why needs Lazarus users that contribute nothing?
They are testers and they infect
I defend the hypothesis:
Users who cannot find out how to remove debug info from executable are
unlike to become contributors (giving good advice in forums, providing
good bug reproducible bug report with example programs and back
traces, patches, writing good example programs for the wiki,
Vincent Snijders wrote:
No, working with my two neighbours would not work. Lazarus needs lot's
of testers, document writers, support givers in the forums (main,
distro-specific and in several languages), graphical designers.
If me and my two neigbours work on it in my rate, we couldn't
Well, that was my question, please explain why. What benifit gets
Lazarus from a user? Lazarus doesn't get a thing for users that just
uses Lazarus and doesn't contribute anything. Codegear for example
gets a couple of hundreds of dollars for each user.
Not every user that
looks first to the
On Jan 15, 2008, at 7:57 PM, Christian U. wrote:
I defend the hypothesis:
Users who cannot find out how to remove debug info from executable
are unlike to become contributors (giving good advice in forums,
providing good bug reproducible bug report with example programs
and back
Anyway, if I were a new user to Lazarus, I would be surprised by the big
compiled file.
As an old Delphian, indeed it would be a bit strange.
- Lazarus is not Delphi. Consequently some changes sould appears.
- Why so big ? May be there is some related documentation.
- May be Google
@miraclec.com
Subject: Re: [lazarus] Solution to the BIG compiled file issue!
IMO Lazarus has serious potential to rival that of Java. It just needs
more
time and backing.
On desktop application, it already does a tough rival to Java, besides
wxWidgets.
But on web application, FPC/Lazarus is still
nse. However some novice should be afraid by some remaining bugs or
missing features compared to Delphi. That would make sense.
Take some looks at delphi forums waht the people thinks about lazarus
and you will see that a lot of users uninstall it before go to web or
read some faq.
And if
Why needs Lazarus users that contribute nothing?
They are testers and they infect others by the virus ;)
More users are already an good thing.
Well, that was my question, please explain why. What benifit gets Lazarus
from a user? Lazarus doesn't get a thing for users that just uses Lazarus
On Jan 15, 2008, at 8:47 PM, Christian U. wrote:
nse. However some novice should be afraid by some remaining bugs or
missing features compared to Delphi. That would make sense.
Take some looks at delphi forums
Indeed I have never read those forums
waht the people thinks about lazarus
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:15:46 +0100
Marius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Fabio Dell'Aria wrote:
Hi to all,
all we know how many new users do not uses lazarus because it
create too BIG compiled files.
I cannot find the original thread, but i believe i have read
something about a
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 17:59:20 +0100
Lukas Gradl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Fabio Dell'Aria schrieb:
Hi to all,
all we know how many new users do not uses lazarus because it
create too BIG compiled files.
We know that:
1)...the additional options are needed to can debug the
Andrew Brunner wrote:
I've seen plenty of Scripting solutions for Delphi. Google pascal
scripting control or something along those lines...
To make Pascal relevant (on the web) - all that's needed is some built-in
components that allow interpreted code on the fly. It's not hard for
servers
Vincent:
So what we need it users that are willing to become contributors, not
users that contribute nothing. They are welcome of course. But they are
not *needed* for Lazarus to advance.
Please, correct me, where I am making a mistake in my reasoning.
Synergy would be the #1 word that
Damien Gerard wrote:
Normal users read the documentation because you cannot play a game
without knowing the rules. They already know how to use Delphi when
they were a little baby ? ^^) and some modifications are necessary.
As far I know this is planned for Lazarus =1.0, in order to make a
On 16/01/2008, Lance Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
But I'm baffled trying to convert my main application It compiles
but won't link (so I don't have a big compiled EXE).
I think I've screwed the environment/compiler etc. options somehow
and I can't find helpful explanations for each
What a pity for them. We can do nothing for them. If they don't make
critism of lazarus, it does not matter.
It is like not buying a new car because of the color.
We can do a lot for them but not with this meaning.
That follows the idea that a Target mecanism is needed. I agree it
is a
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