I heart this response. =)
K.
On 2012-Apr-26, at 03:54, Trevor Daniels wrote:
Graham Percival wrote Thursday, April 26, 2012 7:07 AM
The Birmingham Amateur Theatre is presenting Penzance Pirates,
starring our documentation editor Trevor Daniels as the talking lion![1]
[1] this is
Hi Janek,
i'd vote for having Extenders added by default, without the need to write
them explicitly in ly code.
Yes, but with an \autoExtendersOff option! :)
Thanks,
Kieren.
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Hi Mike,
Congratulations! (To everyone!!)
Best regards,
Kieren.
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Hi all,
Speaking of ugly slurs and slur controls… ;)
Is there any easy way to get back the Slur #'attachment property we used to
have?
Cheers,
Kieren.
On 2012-May-23, at 16:51, Janek Warchoł wrote:
On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 5:16 PM, David Nalesnik
david.nales...@gmail.com wrote:
I find that
Hi Graham,
This is something I can [finally] commit to doing!! =)
I'm swamped for the next two weeks, but if you can use me after June 15, count
me in.
Best,
Kieren.
It would be useful if there were a few people interested in
helping prepare discussions for GOP and GLISS. This would
Graham (et al.),
Programmers are made, not born.
True.
We're not genetically superior to non-programmers.
Speak for yourself! ;-)
When you stop learning, you're dead.
More to the point: when you're dead, you stop learning.
Just my (muck-raking) 2¢.
Kieren.
Hi Arno,
is there a way to tell lilypond in a bigger score to keep - while
generally
using \removeemptystaffcontext - certain staffs unhidden, no matter
whether
they actualy contain music or not?
The LSR contains a snippet which makes a MultiMeasureRest an
interesting object:
Hi Chip,
first I want to suggest this: move the section '3.2 Titles and
headers'
found in the NOTATION Reference to the LM. Why? Because the NR should
be about Notation, and headers/footers/titles are not notation.
Interesting... I'm curious to see what others' opinions are.
Although it
Hi all,
Any suggestions for the name?
Perhaps
Headings, headers, and footers
Or even
Titles, Headings, and Headers/Footers
?
Kieren.
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Titles, Headings, and Headers/Footers
I don't see an immediate difference between titles and headings.
The latter includes the former AFAIK.
Since Heading and Header are extremely similar, explicitly
including the word title decreases the likelihood of
miscommunication and
Then I suggest
Titles, Headings, Headers, Footers
or something similar to avoid the nasty `/'.
Headings (Titles) and Margin Text (Headers and Footers)
??
Kieren.
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Headings (Titles) and Margin Text (Headers and Footers)
If I read `margin' I only think of left and right margins.
So Lilypond's top-margin and bottom-margin properties make no
sense? ;)
It's clear in the typographic world (including HTML/CSS, etc.) that
the margin extends around the
I'm beginning to suspect that we should just explain this better in
the tutorial
Didn't you just recently say that this should NOT be in LM?
... after all, the command is \header.
That is, one must admit, a confusing command... none of the items are
actually put in a header (as most
Hi,
The \tempoMark example should be completely rewritten to use \tempo
(i.e., MetronomeMark) instead of overriding RehearsalMark -- e.g.,
the first entry should read
mpdolce = #(make-dynamic-script (markup #:hspace 1 #:translate (cons
5 0)
#:line(#:dynamic mp #:text #:italic dolce
Hi Jon (et al),
Now there's also a tempoMark function defined in NR 6.1.2,
Interfaces for programmers. My instinct is to leave this one
alone--it is not obsolete, since the predefined \tempo command does
not take a $padding argument like this bit of scheme does, right?
IMO, we [in the
Jon,
Yes! I'll change this one accordingly.
Thanks,
Kieren.
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Top posting is often superior to bottom-posting.
[Sorry... the web email interface I'm forced to use while my MacBook is in for
repairs clearly messed up the last post, so I'm forced to used gmane. =\]
Hello, all!
I'm trying to come up with a Scheme function to generate string harmonics
Hi Neil,
Thanks for the help.
Tricky without another voice, since there's only one stem for all the
noteheads. You can change the length of a stem by overriding 'length,
but you'd need to be careful about stem direction because negative
values will be required, and you won't be able to
Hey Graham,
No help on the technical issues, but as a string player, I
generally see harmonics as only two notes (the bottom two). The
first time I saw three notes was in a Stravinski orchestral part,
and it took me a moment to figure out what it was.
Could you also invent a two-note
Hi all,
Earlier (on -user), I wrote:
Last month, there was a quick exchange about hiding accidental(s)
on tied note(s) after a line break:
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2009-04/
msg00949.html
I am running into the same issue right now, and I see why others
have been
The saga continues... =)
I've hacked the Tie callback to try to adjust the Accidental
property. Coloring the Accidental works fine:
%
\version 2.12.2
#(define (tie-callback tiegrob)
(let* (
; have we been split?
(orig (ly:grob-original tiegrob))
; if yes, get the
Hi Joe,
Not really
=\
the code that places a tied accidental after a line break isn't
accessible from scheme (it lives in lily/accidental.cc, in the
print function).
Ah...
here's a patch (to be applied with git am) that implements a new
property, 'hide-tied-accidental-after-break, in
Hi all,
I often resort to explicitly moving systems, using the function
staffAdjust =
#(define-music-function (parser location adj) (pair?)
#{
\overrideProperty #Score.NonMusicalPaperColumn
Hi Mark,
I'd like to help but I can't get your function to work. I get:
warning: type check for `line-break-system-details' failed;
value `(10 . 10)' must be of type `list'
Can you include a working example?
\version 2.13
staffAdjust =
#(define-music-function (parser location adj)
Hi Mark,
This is an excellent question, but I'm afraid I've
reached the point where I'm going in circles. I think
you'll have to ask someone else! But I'm very interested
in seeing the solution.
Thanks for the attempt!
For now I may just riff on adjusting absolute values of some other
NMPC
Hi all,
3) Ok, so why do I want to use texinfo so much?
- makes pdfs+info. I personally *never* use those formats, but I
know that some people still use them. IMO, if we're going to
support those formats for the manuals, we should support them
for the information that's on the website.
Hi Mark,
I want to retrieve absolute pitch data from within a \relative
block but I can't figure it out. Here's my work so far. Probably
there's a much easier way. If so, let me know!
How's this?
\version 2.12.2
#(ly:set-option 'point-and-click #f)
relativeMusic = \relative
{
c' d e f g
Hi Joe,
What I would *really* love are high-level commands to set intra-piece
(section) system-count and page-count options.
For example, I'd like to say that in an ABA form piece, the B section
must be on two pages (whereas the leading A and trailing A' sections
can be auto-flowed by
Hi devs!
The two MetronomeMark behaviours I would like to fix (or $pon$or for
fixing) are:
1. The break-alignment situation (q.v., http://code.google.com/p/
lilypond/issues/detail?id=684can=1q=metronomemark).
Any recent movement/news on this issue?
Can this be fixed in Scheme or only C++?
Hello all,
Like many Lilyponders, I break down my code into variables, e.g.
global (for time signature changes, etc.), notes, dynamics, etc. The
main irritation with this (IMO) is that each variable requires a
complete set of skips in order to keep the timing accurate.
Would it be
Hi Mark,
Have you tried using the \tag command?
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.12/Documentation/user/lilypond/Different-
editions-from-one-source#Using-tags
Certainly I've used \tag for filtering content, but I don't
understand how \tag could help with the problem I'm describing...
could you
Hello all,
Jay's \addTo twist gave me a (naive) thought...
If \addTo simply constructed (e.g., appended to) an ordered list of
moment-event (moment-grob?) pairs, couldn't the parser simply grab
the one(s) it needed at any given moment?
Yaay! For one, it would simply change my life :-)
Hi Werner (et al,),
Please use two spaces after a full stop in documentation strings
for consistence.
Since this is incorrect typographical practice, and Lilypond prides
itself on beautiful typography, I'm surprised this is the standard in
the docs — why/how was this decision made?
Hi Werner,
It really depends. IIRC, the Chicaco manual of style recommended this.
The view at CMOS is that there is no reason for two spaces after a
period in published work.
http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/CMS_FAQ/OneSpaceorTwo/
OneSpaceorTwo03.html
Also see page 28 of Robert
Hi Werner,
To cite the texinfo info pages:
Thanks for the reference — for subsequent thread-followers, I also
recommend
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-spaced_sentences
Indeed, I just see that @frenchspacing is only used for French and
Japanese (the latter only partially). It should
Hi Carl (et al.),
Two spaces after a full stop allows the emacs sentence detection
code to work properly.
@frenchspacing eliminates the extra space after the full stop at
the end of the sentence.
Then it's settled — excellent!
Thanks,
Kieren.
Graham,
I could ask him for references tomorrow if you want.
Like most religious beliefs, your father's bible (whatever reference
it may be) will never convince me that my bible (Robert Bringhurst's
The Elements of Typographic Style) is anything except mao's own
truth. =)
PPS like
Graham,
Oh, in case anybody was wondering: my father is pure native
British, educated at Oxford, and considers the 1978 Fowler's
Modern English second revised edition (printed in Oxford) to be
the definitive guide to English writing. There's no American
influence here!
So what does Fowler's
Hi David,
@nonfrenchspacing does _not_, I repeat _not_, cause a larger space to
appear by _default_ at sentence endings. However, when TeX does line
justification, it will (if necessary) stretch the space after sentence
endings more than the interword space when @nonfrenchspacing is being
Hi David,
Well, the TeX book says:
Excellent reference — thanks!
so there _is_ extra natural space for a space factor of 2000 and
larger.
Perhaps the best compromise, then, would be to set the space factor
at 1999 — that way, the single-spacers (a.k.a. star-bellied Sneeches)
would be
Hello Joe (et al.),
Are there development builds for download anywhere?
+1 [OS X 10.4 Intel]
(It's not that I'm afraid of building Lilypond, it's just that
spending three days
installing the prerequisites is currently low on my list of
priorities.)
I've spent about two days trying, and
Hi Werner,
If I try to tune the layout to put music exactly on one sheet
Have you tried
\paper { page-count = 1 }
?
I usually find this [plus the appropriate ragged-bottom and ragged-
last-bottom settings] works for me.
Hope this helps!
Kieren.
Hi Mats,
Reminds me of the GOTO command in BASIC! ;-)
An *extremely* underrated and powerful command. ;-p
One alternative way to achieve the same thing is to simply do a
global =
{
\time 4/4 s4*4*10
\time 3/4 s4*3*5
\time 7/4 s4*7
{ \time 4/4
\bar |. }
\anchoredStuff
}
Nope: that
Hello all,
I want to [automagically] conditionally eliminate lyric extenders when
(1) the end of the syllable which has the extender is after
[i.e., to the right of] the melisma's last note; and,
(2) the distance to the following syllable is less than the
minimum extender length
Hi Trevor,
I'm not sure I understand the need for this.
I would not normally use a lyric extender
unless the syllable had an extended duration
over several notes or was sung to a long note.
This occurs far less frequently than a 2-note melisma.
Do you attach lyric extenders unconditionally
to
Hi Jay (et al.):
Attached is a patch which adds SmallStaff to engraver-init.ly.
Everywhere that \accepts Staff was used I just added \accepts
SmallStaff. Let me know if this looks good.
Just a small point: has anyone confirmed that -3 is a standard
magstep?
1. When looking at hand-engraved
Hi Nick,
From my point of view the main use for smallStaff (or whatever it
gets called) is for ossia staves.
Except IIRC ossia staves and solo/cue staves are usually of different
sizes, yes?
Cheers,
Kieren.
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Hi Reinhold,
Grr, it doesn't work so well, though: This will not work in the
first measure
of a line or immediately after a time signature change!
Something like this would work anywhere, yes?
\version 2.13.3
\paper {
line-width = 9\cm
}
makeSpace = {
\once \override Score.BarLine
Hi Trevor,
I wanted to take a minute to provide feedback on two LilyPond-oriented
presentations I was able to make earlier this year.
Congratulations, and thanks from the community!
Off-line, I'd be very interested in seeing a (tran)script of your
presentation(s): I'm scheduled to give some
Hi all,
\\ is quite more convenient than explicit voices and thus an important
idiom that makes Lilypond friendlier to the user.
Yes, but as previously discussed, the confusion it (ultimately) causes is a
poor trade-off. The whole problem would be solved if \\ Did The Right Thing,
i.e.
{
Hi Trevor,
This change would help, but I don't think it
would solve the whole problem. You'd still have
an implied name for the second context, so it
doesn't work in more than one staff
Probably true... I'll have to examine the ramifications.
or when there are lyrics to assign.
What do
Hi Karl,
or when there are lyrics to assign.
What do you mean here?
Do you mean lyrics to assign to the *second voice* (since the first
voice assignment would be automagic)?
Try:
\version 2.13.0
\score {
\new Staff {
\time 4/4
\relative g' { g4 g \\ d g2 }
}
\addlyrics{ a b
Hello all,
1. Can anyone explain the logic behind the decision to make
\smallCaps and \caps do the same thing?
2. Is there another [apparently undocumented] \uppercase command?
Thanks,
Kieren.
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Hi Trevor,
I now think teaching the \new Voice method at the start gives a
better and sounder grounding.
I've always thought so...
Does this mean you don't need me to immediately rework how \\ voicifies?
Would that still be a good thing regardless of how the docs are written?
Cheers,
Hi all,
Let's say I want to create a new subclass of the Staff context called
MyStaff, and the only thing it does is override the InstrumentName
settings. Do I really have to include all the \consists from engraver-
init.ly? i.e., do I really have to use
\context {
\type
Hi Nicolas,
\caps used to change the font shape to caps, which is available in eg
ccm, but not in CenturySchoolBook. So when the later was the default
font, \caps had no effect.
A hackish \smallCaps was developped, which change lower case
letters to
smaller upper case letters.
So at some
Hi Dan, Neil, et al.:
Does the following help?
SoloVoice is a kind of Voice. UpperVoice and LowerVoice are kinds
of SoloVoice.
That's [relatively] self-evident. What isn't crystal clear — either
in my mind, or (IMO) in the documentation — is why the following
wouldn't work (or, perhaps
Hello all,
I'm trying to define an \uppercase markup function... so far, I've
got [modelled on an existing snippet]
#(define-markup-command
(uppercase paper props str)
(string?)
Return the string characters in UPPERCASE. Syntax: \\uppercase #
\string\
(interpret-markup paper
Hello,
1. Has the 'Pond made a final decision on the standard file
extension for non-compilable (i.e., include only) Lilypond files?
2. If so, when will the [Mac OS X] version actually open said files?
(e.g., right now it won't recognize or open .ily files)
Thanks,
Kieren.
Hi Graham,
Thanks for the info!
Kieren.
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Hi Dan,
it looks like \Voice starts you off with a copy of the previously
defined
Voice settings. If \Voice is absent, you start from scratch.
The context settings are saved by name. If you do not change the
name,
the modified settings replace the previous settings of the \Voice
Hi Reinhold, Wol, et al:
I've been thinking about implementing something like that myself
(basically
controlling combined/split voices via context properties,
overriding the bad
choices the partcombiner makes).
What say we make a serious effort at rewriting the partcombiner from
the
Hi John,
This is a very exciting project!
I think so, too! =)
Have you considered using music streams introduced by Erik Sandberg --
see his master thesis on http://lilypond.org/web/about/pubs ?
It was in the back of my mind... but I have to admit I don't (yet)
know the tech well
Hello all,
I've decided this is going to be my pet project during this, my
Autumn of Lilypond.
I've started a separate thread here, and would like to get moving on
the project as soon as possible. [n.b. I am not intending to cross-
post to -user after this announcement email.]
1. Team
Hi Han-Wen,
This subject has come up before, and solutions were proposed before.
I recommend you vet through the mailing list older comments since the
last rewrite.
That's definitely part of my plan!
Ouch. The traditional role is that the 'lead' (you, that is?) be
the programmer.
Hello all,
Is there a fix yet for the problem [2.13.4-1] that between-system-
padding etc. doesn't work with Lyrics (because they're nonspaceable)?
It's killing me with the lead sheets I'm trying to put out. =(
Thanks,
Kieren.
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Hi Joe,
between-system-padding doesn't work for anything any more; it has
been removed.
OK.
For Lyrics spacing, you have (for spacing within a system)
Lyrics.VerticalAxisGroup #'staff-spacing %% spacing to the staff that
the lyrics is attached to
Lyrics.VerticalAxisGroup
Hi Andrew,
Hi everyone, I'm working on the LilyPond essay
That's great! Thanks.
I'm definitely going to use whatever version you have by October 31st
in my upcoming lecture series (3-5 November).
- LilyPond’s stems are often shorter than any of the references,
especially RH mm. 31.
Hi all,
Although I greatly prefer the Feta font to Gonville, I'm very much
enjoying this thread — kudos to Simon and Jan for all their hard and
considered work!
it doesn't seem surprising to me that one answer doesn't satisfy
everybody's tastes!
Agreed — this is one of the great(est)
Hi Reinhold (et al),
Unfortunately, I don't have the time now to investigate better
defaults
myself, but with these defaults, the scores simply look terrible.
+1
Another problem I've found (but have yet to minimally-exemplify) is
that a manual \pageBreak will often [always?] lead to a
Guten tag, Henrik:
In addition to the [correct] answer already given, I thought you
should know that
r1 | r1 | r1 | r1 | \break
should be
R1 | R1 | R1 | R1
(i.e., uppercase R).
Hope this helps!
Kieren.
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Hello all,
I'm trying to get a local build system in place (in order to edit the
docs), and can't seem to get past some install errors — specifically
sudo port install tetex
leads [eventually] to
--- Extracting teTeX
--- Configuring teTeX
--- Building teTeX
Error: Target
Hi John (et al),
can't you grab and install last TeXlive release? (2008, 2009 beta,
or 2009 in case it's out)
I [apparently] installed texlive.
Now, after doing the ./autogen stuff and modifying configure.make, I do
sudo make
and get
chmod 755 out/lilypond-invoke-editor
Hi Graham,
- why modify configure.make ?! that shouldn't be necessary.
I tried make, and had problems — specifically,
mkdir -p ./out
echo 2.13.8 out/VERSION
/bin/sh: line 1: out/VERSION: Permission denied
make: *** [out/VERSION] Error 1
On
Hi Graham,
I'll bet you a double-double and 20 timbits[1] that this is
because of sudo make, or running sudo at some point when
downloading the source? Once you do sudo make clean; sudo make
distclean, all the out/ and out-www/ directories should be gone,
and you shouldn't have this problem
Hi Graham (et al),
For the record, **I have never recommended that somebody use
lilypond**. When meeting a technically-oriented composer
Ah! That's your problem right there... I recommend Lilypond all the
time, but primarily to AESTHETICALLY-oriented composers.
In my experience, most
Graham,
To clarify, my bet was that your permission problems were caused
by sudo make. See above when I said ... you shouldn't have
THIS problem any more... (emphasis added)
Point.
Come on, man. It's 2pm, I have to teach for 3 hours, and I
haven't had breakfast yet. I need those timbits.
Hi John,
Which Make avatar and version do you use?
I don't know what a make avatar is... but when I type
make --v
it outputs
GNU Make 3.80
Copyright (C) 2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.
There is NO
Hi John,
Ahem *cough* GNU Make 3.81 (which I have on my GNU/Linux system) was
released in 2006. I guess we should then require this version for
building LilyPond, shouldn't we?
You're kidding, right?
A 0.01 version difference is stopping me from being able to turn my
[huge, but quickly
John (and Graham),
Thanks for all your help, but after 5+ hours of working on this, I've
decided to give up — once I get Mac OS X 10.6 installed (whenever
that is), I'll give the build system install another try.
Regards,
Kieren.
___
for those working on a mac, XCode and BBEdit have grep-like
facilities as
well as project-wide search capabilities that report results in a list
that is itself a navigation tool for the hits.
+1
TextWrangler (BBEdit Jr., freeware) also has this wonderful feature.
Cheers,
Kieren.
Hi Graham,
I think everybody has seriously underestimated both the amount,
and importance, of these basic maintenance tasks.
Are there any basic ‘maintenance’ tasks that can be done without
needing to build Lilypond/docs?
e.g., I can fix indentation in TextWrangler, and then send the
Hi,
Could it be an option to make c e g4*8 do the obvious thing?
Or even { c e g4 }*8 ?
That would be so much more natural. The first already does something,
but not something which I would call useful.
I use it all the time, actually.
The second bombs out. In contrast, q feels rather
Hi,
In fact, I was quite surprised at what c e g4*4 does currently.
Makes
no sense to me. Can't imagine what it would be good for.
I use it all the time to write piano music which looks like it has
multiple voices, but without all the complexity of actually writing
multiple voice
Hi David,
Why couldn't you write
c e g4 s4*3
or similar?
I might be able to... but with your suggested fix of the * symbol,
R1*8
would end up as
R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1
and potentially not compress. This unwanted behaviour along with the
loss of (e.g.)
c e g4 q8-. q8- ~ q2
Hi David,
OTOH, something like
{ c e g8-. c e g-^ }*2
is not doable with the q approach.
Of course it is:
\repeat unfold 2 { c e g8-. q-^ }
Cheers,
Kieren.
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And this year's Good Will Generator Award goes to…
I don't think that I can contribute much more to your amusement.
Wow.
I've [fortunately] never witnessed such mindless negative energy on a
mailing list to which I've been subscribed.
___
Hi Valentin,
On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 10:36 AM, David Kastrup d...@gnu.org wrote:
Remember Rune.
I feel deeply shocked by your last sentence.
Given his prior behavior on the list(s) — how rude and completely
lacking in social filters he clearly is — I had honestly thought that
nothing
Hi Patrick (et al.),
for people who haven't used the LSR (lilypond snippet repository) before,
if you click on the pretty pictures of things you want to do,
they turn into lilypond code for you to learn from:) It's all automagic.
Your post brings up a good point: each LSR snippet page should
Hi all,
Two possibilities:
Side by side (works also for ottavation)
This is the traditional way (q.v., instrument ranges in orchestration texts).
For what it's worth...
Kieren.
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Hi Graham,
Could we get a few tests for various OSes?
http://lilypond.org/~graham/
Mac OS X 10.6 is aok.
It also seemed that first compile was almost instantaneous, as compared with
earlier upgrades -- is this a change, or am I imagining things?
Cheers,
Kieren.
Hi all,
I've been lurking a bit on this thread, but felt I should comment.
I personally think we need a more general structure than \repeat will ever be
able to reasonably offer. Essentially, we need to be able to say that a single
movement/piece [of Lilypond code] consists of one or more
Hi David,
Excellent points -- in particular:
Those goto and function calls should be able to have some basic
effects not just on performance, but also on typesetting: ties starting
before a branch point (or function return) need to be ended in each
branch, the same for slurs and so on.
3) This whole thread is stupid and pointless and stupid.
Ah... but was it also pointless?
um... the second time...
;)
Kieren.
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Hi all,
I write [and engrave] a lot of choral music.
There's one big thing I want to do in Lilypond, and wanted to get some opinions
on the matter...
In my choral music, there are often large sections of unison and two-part
writing, as well as four- and [complex] eight-part writing. That is
The spanish word for download is descartes ? Weird, in
english that's the name of a famous philosopher.
Actually, that's in French... ;)
Kieren.
You should probably fix your translation in download.itexi, then,
since that file uses Descargas.
Could you fix those build errors?
I
Hi Arno,
- the default minimum hairpin length seems to be zero
, which i cannot imagine to be useful in even very special circumstances
According to the docs, it's 2.0 (staff spaces), although I agree that Lilypond
rarely seems to enforce this -- for that reason, I set this value to 5 in my
Hi Neil,
Well, I'm clueless about how to help with your issue.
But congrats on the premiere/recording!
Thanks!
When the CD is released, I'll be sure to let everyone know where to buy their
obligatory 12-or-so copies. ;)
Cheers,
Kieren.
On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 7:36 AM, Kieren MacMillan
Hi Valentin:
If you don't have any within a few days, feel free to give me a ping
so that I can add it to the tracker.
I got one suggestion, but it's far too complex for what we (I) want.
Please add this to the tracker.
Thanks,
Kieren.
___
Hi Arno,
is there some solution available? namespaces, or whatever?
I don't think there are namespaces (although that might be an interesting
feature request).
I would think you have two obvious options:
1. Write a script (e.g., in perl or sed or something) that would add a unique
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