Re: Is ELKS a good idea for teaching O.S.
dosemu is enough for Elks. I did not try yet but it must be light and fast. If someone want to run Elks on non x86, then she need Bochs Also there is alternative of VMware is under development with GPL... http://www.plex86.org/ (it was called FreeMWare). I am expecting this... love setu John Galt wrote: But Bochs just went GPL recently, so there is some good coming out of the vmware thing... On Fri, 7 Apr 2000, Andru Luvisi wrote: On Sat, 18 Mar 2000, Prem Setu wrote: [snip] Host OS: Linux, Win., Mac Emulator: Vmware, Dosemu, Bochs [snip] For those who care about this sort of thing, the vmware people have software patents. http://lpf.ai.mit.edu/ for information on why many consider this to be a Bad Thing. Andru -- -- | Andru Luvisi | http://libweb.sonoma.edu/ | | Programmer/Analyst | Library Resources Online | | Ruben Salazar Library|-| | Sonoma State University | http://www.belleprovence.com/ | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Textile imports from Provence, France | -- The Internet must be a medium for it is neither Rare nor Well done! a href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"John Galt /a
Re: Is ELKS a good idea for teaching O.S.
dosemu is enough for Elks. I did not try yet but it must be light and fast. If someone want to run Elks on non x86, then she need Bochs Also there is alternative of VMware is under development with GPL... http://www.plex86.org/ (it was called FreeMWare). I am expecting this... Also usermode linux may be of interest once its a bit more stable Alan
Re: Is ELKS a good idea for teaching O.S.
Nicola Girardi wrote: On Sun, Apr 09, 2000 at 11:46:54AM +0530, Prem Setu wrote: | dosemu is enough for Elks. I did not try yet but it must be light and fast. | If someone want to run Elks on non x86, then she need Bochs Is there anywhere a howto/guide to set up dosemu to boot elks? Ah! I was almost writing my self. I will try my self soon. but if someone has information how to install / boot Elks in DosEmu, I am happy to hear This is only info I have --- this is extruct of past discussion From: Mario Frasca [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Kalogirou Harilaos [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 12:28:08 +0100 Subject: Re: VMware Hi Kalagirou, I tried DOSEMU(ver 0.99.10) but nothing, it stops while reading the boot disk with message You're running Redhat, too, aren't you? I've had this same problem with the dosemu 0.99.something coming with RH6.0. that is a development version, not necessarily a stable one. what I did was uninstalling it and downloading 0.98.8.0. now I start my dosmachine in a xterm like this: xtermdos [-A] (the -A is to boot it from a boot disk.) I use ELKS kernel version 0.0.81 and Dev86 version 0.14.9 this is exactly what I'm using, and it works as described above. hope this helps. Mario. Thank you Mario, meanwhile I found "bochs" an i386 emulator which runs fine. I'll use that for the moment it seems to work ok if I exclude some "@" appearing randomly at the bottom of the screen! If more problems evolve I will switch to DOSEMU. Harry "Alegria Loinaz. Inaki" wrote: Hi, I am a new participant in the list and after reading FAQs I have a couple of questions: - Is ELKS able to run executable programs from standard Linux? - Is possible with ELKS to read the File System in the hard disk (I suposse no, but I don$B%((Bt know sure) I am looking for a simple OS to use teaching (modifying the kernel) and despite simplicity is very important, I'd like to be possible to load pre-compiled programs and to have a file system in hard disk. Is ELKS a good choice for this or it is better an old version of the Linux kernel? Thanks in advance - Inaki Alegria University of the Basque Country 649 Postakutxa, 20080 Donostia Basque Country - -- Nicola Girardi aka nick, nikke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Key fingerprint = 5D9E ED36 C2E9 EF8F C4B6 25C2 3FF4 E5A2 27A7 83B9 GnuPG Key at http://agnes.dida.physik.uni-essen.de/~nicola/gpg-plan Part 1.2Type: application/pgp-signature love setu
Re: Is ELKS a good idea for teaching O.S.
Nicola Girardi wrote: On Sun, Apr 09, 2000 at 11:46:54AM +0530, Prem Setu wrote: | dosemu is enough for Elks. I did not try yet but it must be light and fast. | If someone want to run Elks on non x86, then she need Bochs Is there anywhere a howto/guide to set up dosemu to boot elks? Ah! I was almost writing my self. I will try my self soon. but if someone has information how to install / boot Elks in DosEmu, I am happy to hear This is only info I have --- this is extruct of past discussion From: Mario Frasca [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Kalogirou Harilaos [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 12:28:08 +0100 Subject: Re: VMware Hi Kalagirou, I tried DOSEMU(ver 0.99.10) but nothing, it stops while reading the boot disk with message You're running Redhat, too, aren't you? I've had this same problem with the dosemu 0.99.something coming with RH6.0. that is a development version, not necessarily a stable one. what I did was uninstalling it and downloading 0.98.8.0. now I start my dosmachine in a xterm like this: xtermdos [-A] (the -A is to boot it from a boot disk.) I use ELKS kernel version 0.0.81 and Dev86 version 0.14.9 this is exactly what I'm using, and it works as described above. hope this helps. Mario. Thank you Mario, meanwhile I found "bochs" an i386 emulator which runs fine. I'll use that for the moment it seems to work ok if I exclude some "@" appearing randomly at the bottom of the screen! If more problems evolve I will switch to DOSEMU. Harry "Alegria Loinaz. Inaki" wrote: Hi, I am a new participant in the list and after reading FAQs I have a couple of questions: - Is ELKS able to run executable programs from standard Linux? - Is possible with ELKS to read the File System in the hard disk (I suposse no, but I don$B%((Bt know sure) I am looking for a simple OS to use teaching (modifying the kernel) and despite simplicity is very important, I'd like to be possible to load pre-compiled programs and to have a file system in hard disk. Is ELKS a good choice for this or it is better an old version of the Linux kernel? Thanks in advance - Inaki Alegria University of the Basque Country 649 Postakutxa, 20080 Donostia Basque Country - -- Nicola Girardi aka nick, nikke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Key fingerprint = 5D9E ED36 C2E9 EF8F C4B6 25C2 3FF4 E5A2 27A7 83B9 GnuPG Key at http://agnes.dida.physik.uni-essen.de/~nicola/gpg-plan Part 1.2Type: application/pgp-signature love setu
Re: Is ELKS a good idea for teaching O.S.
On Sun, 9 Apr 2000, Prem Setu wrote: dosemu is enough for Elks. I did not try yet but it must be light and fast. If someone want to run Elks on non x86, then she need Bochs Also there is alternative of VMware is under development with GPL... http://www.plex86.org/ (it was called FreeMWare). I am expecting this... ...by the author of bochs in concert w/ mandrake... love setu John Galt wrote: But Bochs just went GPL recently, so there is some good coming out of the vmware thing... On Fri, 7 Apr 2000, Andru Luvisi wrote: On Sat, 18 Mar 2000, Prem Setu wrote: [snip] Host OS: Linux, Win., Mac Emulator: Vmware, Dosemu, Bochs [snip] For those who care about this sort of thing, the vmware people have software patents. http://lpf.ai.mit.edu/ for information on why many consider this to be a Bad Thing. Andru -- -- | Andru Luvisi | http://libweb.sonoma.edu/ | | Programmer/Analyst | Library Resources Online | | Ruben Salazar Library|-| | Sonoma State University | http://www.belleprovence.com/ | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Textile imports from Provence, France | -- The Internet must be a medium for it is neither Rare nor Well done! a href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"John Galt /a Pardon me, but you have obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a damn. email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is ELKS a good idea for teaching O.S.
But Bochs just went GPL recently, so there is some good coming out of the vmware thing... On Fri, 7 Apr 2000, Andru Luvisi wrote: On Sat, 18 Mar 2000, Prem Setu wrote: [snip] Host OS: Linux, Win., Mac Emulator: Vmware, Dosemu, Bochs [snip] For those who care about this sort of thing, the vmware people have software patents. http://lpf.ai.mit.edu/ for information on why many consider this to be a Bad Thing. Andru -- -- | Andru Luvisi | http://libweb.sonoma.edu/ | | Programmer/Analyst | Library Resources Online | | Ruben Salazar Library|-| | Sonoma State University | http://www.belleprovence.com/ | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Textile imports from Provence, France | -- The Internet must be a medium for it is neither Rare nor Well done! a href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"John Galt /a
Re: Is ELKS a good idea for teaching O.S.
Hi It is good idea to run ELKS on top of another Host OS for teaching or learning. (developing too). Student does not need to have 2 box. They don't need to reboot to switch OS. There are several products to have virtual 8086 PC. Host OS: Linux, Win., Mac Emulator: Vmware, Dosemu, Bochs Also if it is Dosemu or Bochs (?), you can use ELKS via telnet or X-window server. Dosemu seems very light. Some student can share the server for ELKS virtual machine. Each student can have his own virtual ELKS. Because you can use DosEmu via telnet, student's machine can be any stupid box :-) To build each evnironment for student can be very easy. Once you set up a sample, you can just copy to for each student's home directory. Because host OS is running Linux, you can build on it. Is it a good idea??? Love Setu --- this is extruct of past discussion From: Mario Frasca [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Kalogirou Harilaos [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 12:28:08 +0100 Subject: Re: VMware Hi Kalagirou, I tried DOSEMU(ver 0.99.10) but nothing, it stops while reading the boot disk with message You're running Redhat, too, aren't you? I've had this same problem with the dosemu 0.99.something coming with RH6.0. that is a development version, not necessarily a stable one. what I did was uninstalling it and downloading 0.98.8.0. now I start my dosmachine in a xterm like this: xtermdos [-A] (the -A is to boot it from a boot disk.) I use ELKS kernel version 0.0.81 and Dev86 version 0.14.9 this is exactly what I'm using, and it works as described above. hope this helps. Mario. Thank you Mario, meanwhile I found "bochs" an i386 emulator which runs fine. I'll use that for the moment it seems to work ok if I exclude some "@" appearing randomly at the bottom of the screen! If more problems evolve I will switch to DOSEMU. Harry "Alegria Loinaz. Inaki" wrote: Hi, I am a new participant in the list and after reading FAQs I have a couple of questions: - Is ELKS able to run executable programs from standard Linux? - Is possible with ELKS to read the File System in the hard disk (I suposse no, but I don´t know sure) I am looking for a simple OS to use teaching (modifying the kernel) and despite simplicity is very important, I'd like to be possible to load pre-compiled programs and to have a file system in hard disk. Is ELKS a good choice for this or it is better an old version of the Linux kernel? Thanks in advance - Inaki Alegria University of the Basque Country 649 Postakutxa, 20080 Donostia Basque Country -
Re: Is ELKS a good idea for teaching O.S.
On Tue, 29 Feb 2000, Juanjo Marin wrote Iñaki, I am looking for a simple OS to use teaching (modifying the kernel) and despite simplicity is very important, I'd like to be possible to load pre-compiled programs and to have a file system in hard disk. I think that Minix may be a better option for teaching because there are books (well, 2 editions of one book) written for this purpose. The book is titled "Operating Systems: Design and Implementation". The author of the first Edition is A.S. Tanenbaum and the authors of the second one are A.S. Tanenbaum and A. S. Woodhull. The good point is that they have been translated into Spanish (I don't know if there is a Basque translation) The translation is called "Sistemas Operativos: Diseño e Implementación". Both editions are published by Prentice Hall. It's very likely that you can find copies of the 1st edition in the library of your CS faculty. The ISBN of the 2nd edition is 970-17-0165-8 Anyway, If you are very interested in ELKS, you can find some technical papers on the ELKS site. We (at least me!!!) would be very grateful if you wrote some essays that help people to learn how ELKS works. About Linux, there are some documents and books about the kernel. There is a translation of David Rusling's "The Linux Kernel" avalaible in any mirror of LuCAS (LinUx en CAStellano). And there is a translation of a French (or maybe English) book, called "Porgramación Linux 2.0", Editorial Gestión 2000, de Rémy Card, Eric Dumas and Franck Mével. Hope this help you, Greetings from Sevilla Juanjo I am a beginer with Minix and ELKS, but I prefered ELKS (not MINIX) first because Minixs' bad development. I actually mean that Minix's developers don't work so hard on Minix. At the first time, I asced Al about somethin, and I recived answers very fast, on Minix distribution I asked some questions so, and I don't get any answer, yet. That why I prefered ELKS. And Minix news group doesn't work on my news server:( At the mean time Minix is interesting too.. That is my prposition how to learn Unixs...
Re: Is ELKS a good idea for teaching O.S.
I am a beginer with Minix and ELKS, but I prefered ELKS (not MINIX) first because Minixs' bad development. I actually mean that Minix's developers don't work so hard on Minix. At the first time, I asced Al about somethin, and I recived answers very fast, on Minix distribution I asked some questions so, and I don't get any answer, yet. That why I prefered ELKS. And Minix news group doesn't work on my news server:( At the mean time Minix is interesting too.. That is my prposition how to learn Unixs... You're right, the development of ELKS is much more live than Minix (Minix is considered finished or nearly finished). On the other hand, we don't have a book that explains ELKS internals by now. The Minix book is interesting anyway (The Minix filesystem, the one used by ELKS, is explained on that book and it can be used to learn OS concepts from a UNIX point of view as well). Because Minix has a book and ELKS doesn't, I said that Minix _could_ be better for teaching (you and your students have a reference book), but I think that ELKS is perfect for learning by your own (if you enjoy learning by code). ELKS is like the GPLed cousin of Minix and the small brother (or sister ???) of Linux :-), and all they belong to the big Unix family. :-) best regards, Juanjo
Re: Is ELKS a good idea for teaching O.S.
On Tue, 29 Feb 2000, Alegria Loinaz. Inaki wrote: I am a new participant in the list and after reading FAQs I have a couple of questions: - Is ELKS able to run executable programs from standard Linux? Not directly, since standard Linux programs are in 32bit code, ELKS is mainly for 16bit CPUs. Also, Linux uses ELF headers, ELKS doesnt. However, if your Linux code is small enough, there is no reason you cant compile it for ELKS, depending on what it does. - Is possible with ELKS to read the File System in the hard disk (I suposse no, but I don´t know sure) You can read the minix filesystem on the harddisk. As yet this is the only fs that ELKS really supports. Both Linux and ELKS can read this, as can many other systems. I am looking for a simple OS to use teaching (modifying the kernel) and despite simplicity is very important, I'd like to be possible to load pre-compiled programs and to have a file system in hard disk. Is ELKS a good choice for this or it is better an old version of the Linux kernel? Either would be good. The main benefit of ELKS is that it is a LOT smaller and easier to demonstrate parts of the kernel. For example, the floppy driver in ELKS is ~1500 lines, in Linux, its around ~4500 lines. Which would you rather try and explain? :) Davey
Re: Is ELKS a good idea for teaching O.S.
On Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 01:10:52AM +1100, David Murn wrote: On Tue, 29 Feb 2000, Alegria Loinaz. Inaki wrote: I am a new participant in the list and after reading FAQs I have a couple of questions: - Is ELKS able to run executable programs from standard Linux? Not directly, since standard Linux programs are in 32bit code, ELKS is mainly for 16bit CPUs. Also, Linux uses ELF headers, ELKS doesnt. However, if your Linux code is small enough, there is no reason you cant compile it for ELKS, depending on what it does. Just to add to the above, it is very easy to build executables on a Linux system using a cross-compiler to run on ELKS. - Is possible with ELKS to read the File System in the hard disk (I suposse no, but I don´t know sure) You can read the minix filesystem on the harddisk. As yet this is the only fs that ELKS really supports. Both Linux and ELKS can read this, as can many other systems. I am looking for a simple OS to use teaching (modifying the kernel) and despite simplicity is very important, I'd like to be possible to load pre-compiled programs and to have a file system in hard disk. Is ELKS a good choice for this or it is better an old version of the Linux kernel? Either would be good. The main benefit of ELKS is that it is a LOT smaller and easier to demonstrate parts of the kernel. For example, the floppy driver in ELKS is ~1500 lines, in Linux, its around ~4500 lines. Which would you rather try and explain? :) One of the initial goals of ELKS was to make something suitable for use in teaching. The kernel is tiny compared to even early version of Linux, and all the subsytems have been written to be as simple as possible. Al
Re: Is ELKS a good idea for teaching O.S.
Iñaki, I am looking for a simple OS to use teaching (modifying the kernel) and despite simplicity is very important, I'd like to be possible to load pre-compiled programs and to have a file system in hard disk. I think that Minix may be a better option for teaching because there are books (well, 2 editions of one book) written for this purpose. The book is titled "Operating Systems: Design and Implementation". The author of the first Edition is A.S. Tanenbaum and the authors of the second one are A.S. Tanenbaum and A. S. Woodhull. The good point is that they have been translated into Spanish (I don't know if there is a Basque translation) The translation is called "Sistemas Operativos: Diseño e Implementación". Both editions are published by Prentice Hall. It's very likely that you can find copies of the 1st edition in the library of your CS faculty. The ISBN of the 2nd edition is 970-17-0165-8 Anyway, If you are very interested in ELKS, you can find some technical papers on the ELKS site. We (at least me!!!) would be very grateful if you wrote some essays that help people to learn how ELKS works. About Linux, there are some documents and books about the kernel. There is a translation of David Rusling's "The Linux Kernel" avalaible in any mirror of LuCAS (LinUx en CAStellano). And there is a translation of a French (or maybe English) book, called "Porgramación Linux 2.0", Editorial Gestión 2000, de Rémy Card, Eric Dumas and Franck Mével. Hope this help you, Greetings from Sevilla Juanjo
Re: Is ELKS a good idea for teaching O.S.
Le Tue, Feb 29, 2000 at 04:29:47PM +0100, Juanjo Marin a écrit: About Linux, there are some documents and books about the kernel. There is a translation of David Rusling's "The Linux Kernel" avalaible in any mirror of LuCAS (LinUx en CAStellano). And there is a translation of a French (or maybe English) book, called "Porgramación Linux 2.0", Editorial Gestión 2000, de Rémy Card, Eric Dumas and Franck Mével. It is a french book at first. Was translated later. It's called "Programmation Linux 2.0", from Eyrolles (France). Arnaud.
