Re: ShipIt Changes
Op donderdag 22-10-2009 om 11:01 uur [tijdzone +0200], schreef Neil Coetzer: 1. For those without broadband, which is most people Zimbabwe, upgrading via the net isn't even *almost* an option. Even with local broadband our speeds leave a lot to be desired, and I have had at least one attempted upgrade crash completely because of lost connections in the middle of the upgrade. It just isn't an option for most people here. 2. As a result of poor connectivity options in Zimbabwe, as per my recent report, the Loco Team has made efforts to provide other avenues, such as the Freedom Toaster and a local repository where downloads can be done without using expensive international bandwidth. However, there is currently one Freedom Toaster in the entire country, and broadband is only available to a minority of the people within only a few cities. The only way of reaching outlying areas is with CDs. I am aware that most users in outlying areas have been able to make requests on shipit in the past (using dialup connections for Internet access), and this has been their main avenue for getting discs. Good points. Maybe Canonical should build some country-specific logic in Shipit? 3. On the understanding that CDs would still be available to Loco Teams, I visited shipit to make a request (which is how I have always done it in the past, as Team Contact) only to discover that I was automatically blocked based on my previous orders, so I couldn't even explain myself in making a request. 4. I then re-checked the page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoGettingCds and confirmed that CD's are only available to approved Loco Teams, And even for approved LoCoTeams, it's only about the one box of CDs that they get shipped with priority. This box also includes 75 Kubuntu 75 Server discs that are pretty useless for many LoCoTeams; you can't give them to new users (all the documentation books are written for Ubuntu), and experienced users have downloaded them already, so they are only asked by the latter people as collector's items... which we are not. As can be seen, once again, from my recent report on Ubuntu at ICT Africa 2009, our Loco Team has certainly not been idle and we have put huge effort into marketing. We have not applied for approval yet because we haven't met prerequisites like having an IRC channel (because it's just not practical in our area due the lack of connectivity for most people). Unless this IRC requirement (as stated on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoGettingApproved) can be waivered, but even then it doesn't help teams who are just trying to get off the ground who may still need CDs. loco-council hat I assure you we would waiver the IRC requirement if you explain why IRC is useless for you. /loco-council hat What we really do look at the most is sustained activity ( 1 year preferably), a number of different/original activities, regular meetings communication, etc. 5. You will possibly recall a recent mail I sent on this list inquiring how members should go about recording what they do, and how they can get recognition for their efforts if they are not developers. We have established our Team on launchpad, but it's impossible for people to earn karma if they're not developers. There are no real developers in our Loco, and many of the Loco members don't have internet access other than via Internet cafes, so maintaining an online record of their achievements and efforts is just not practical for a lot of them. I can't even find the time to update my own wiki pages, even with Internet access at work (no access at home). These are just some of the reasons why becoming members is kind of difficult for some people, no matter how much work they're doing in their local communities. Using myself as an example: I'm the founding member of a 2-year old Loco, have been team contact for 2 years, have created ties with local government and the Computer Society of Zimbabwe, pushed a local ISP to host our repository and web site for free (which took a full year of pushing), have taken part in the organisation of release parties and presentations, have actively gone out looking for members (and a team of 3 has grown to over 15), have provided limited support via the mailing list and forum, have organised monthly face-to-face meetings and was voted in as Team Leader two months ago.. but I still don't know if I will qualify for membership, because as soon as I see that my launchpad account is one of the things that will be looked at (as per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership), I am painfully aware that my launchpad account looks rather pathetic compared to most people out there who are developers so I suddenly find myself losing confidence and haven't even bothered trying to become a member as a result. You don't need to have any Launchpad-activity to become a Member (although it will be looked at if you pretend to be a translator or a developer, of
ShipIt Changes
Hi All, One of the ways in which many people have been able to experience Ubuntu is via Canonical's ShipIt (http://shipit.ubuntu.com/) program, which has shipped millions of CDs to new users. This has provided a valuable opportunity for new users to try Ubuntu and for our community teams to obtain CDs as part of their advocacy efforts. Due to the sheer growth of Ubuntu, we are making a few changes to ShipIt which I wanted to ensure I share with you. For the details, I am going to turn the mic over to everyone's favorite Canonical COO, Jane Silber who updated us on the Canonical blog (http://blog.canonical.com/?p=264): The ShipIt program (https://shipit.ubuntu.com/) has been at the core of the Ubuntu project since its inception. The goal was to make sure that there are no restrictions, as far as was possible, to people having access to Ubuntu. In the last five years we have shipped millions of CDs and seen Ubuntu’s popularity and reach grow in ways that would be impossible without ShipIt. And that aim continues. We need to make Ubuntu available to as many people who need it, particularly those for whom the download options are limited. The goal has not been to supply a CD to every Ubuntu user of every version of Ubuntu. Remember, one of the coolest things about Ubuntu is the way you can upgrade from one version of Ubuntu to another – without the need for a CD! While these CDs are often referred to as “free CDs”, they are of course not free of cost to Canonical. We want to continue this programme, but Ubuntu’s growth means that some changes are necessary. Therefore we are adjusting how we handle CD requests to try to find the right balance between availability of CDs and the continued viability of the ShipIt programme. We will continue to supply CDs to LoCo teams and Ubuntu members. And we hope to make CDs available to everyone who is just discovering Ubuntu. And we continue to search for additional ways to make Ubuntu and Ubuntu materials available to everyone. But we are limiting shipments to people that we think have alternative paths of getting Ubuntu. For instance, * you can upgrade to the new release without a CD (http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/upgrading) * you can download your own CD for free (http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download) * you will be able to download the CD wallet artwork (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing/#CD%20Distribution%20Materials) * becoming an Ubuntu member (http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember) by contributing to Ubuntu, and thereby becoming eligible for more CDs * And finally, you can purchase CDs (http://shop.canonical.com/) We will change the language on the ShipIt site to make it clearer what we are doing. We hope that you support this effort and realise that the intent is to continue to make Ubuntu available on CD to everyone who needs it. Jane Silber, Canonical I hope this makes things clear. :-) Jono -- Jono Bacon Ubuntu Community Manager www.ubuntu.com / www.jonobacon.org www.identi.ca/jonobacon www.twitter.com/jonobacon -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: ShipIt Changes
Sincerely, I don't like the idea. Now, not only to get an ubuntu email id but also to get a simple original CD we have to become Ubuntu members!! (that's really not making sense for me especially that those who need that precious CD are out of scope of being elligible to get it for free which is an important motive to join the track). Regards, Hanen On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Jono Bacon j...@ubuntu.com wrote: Hi All, One of the ways in which many people have been able to experience Ubuntu is via Canonical's ShipIt (http://shipit.ubuntu.com/) program, which has shipped millions of CDs to new users. This has provided a valuable opportunity for new users to try Ubuntu and for our community teams to obtain CDs as part of their advocacy efforts. Due to the sheer growth of Ubuntu, we are making a few changes to ShipIt which I wanted to ensure I share with you. For the details, I am going to turn the mic over to everyone's favorite Canonical COO, Jane Silber who updated us on the Canonical blog (http://blog.canonical.com/?p=264): The ShipIt program (https://shipit.ubuntu.com/) has been at the core of the Ubuntu project since its inception. The goal was to make sure that there are no restrictions, as far as was possible, to people having access to Ubuntu. In the last five years we have shipped millions of CDs and seen Ubuntu’s popularity and reach grow in ways that would be impossible without ShipIt. And that aim continues. We need to make Ubuntu available to as many people who need it, particularly those for whom the download options are limited. The goal has not been to supply a CD to every Ubuntu user of every version of Ubuntu. Remember, one of the coolest things about Ubuntu is the way you can upgrade from one version of Ubuntu to another – without the need for a CD! While these CDs are often referred to as “free CDs”, they are of course not free of cost to Canonical. We want to continue this programme, but Ubuntu’s growth means that some changes are necessary. Therefore we are adjusting how we handle CD requests to try to find the right balance between availability of CDs and the continued viability of the ShipIt programme. We will continue to supply CDs to LoCo teams and Ubuntu members. And we hope to make CDs available to everyone who is just discovering Ubuntu. And we continue to search for additional ways to make Ubuntu and Ubuntu materials available to everyone. But we are limiting shipments to people that we think have alternative paths of getting Ubuntu. For instance, * you can upgrade to the new release without a CD (http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/upgrading) * you can download your own CD for free (http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download) * you will be able to download the CD wallet artwork (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing/#CD%20Distribution%20Materials) * becoming an Ubuntu member (http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember) by contributing to Ubuntu, and thereby becoming eligible for more CDs * And finally, you can purchase CDs (http://shop.canonical.com/) We will change the language on the ShipIt site to make it clearer what we are doing. We hope that you support this effort and realise that the intent is to continue to make Ubuntu available on CD to everyone who needs it. Jane Silber, Canonical I hope this makes things clear. :-) Jono -- Jono Bacon Ubuntu Community Manager www.ubuntu.com / www.jonobacon.org www.identi.ca/jonobacon www.twitter.com/jonobacon -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: ShipIt Changes
Jono Bacon wrote: SNIP * you can upgrade to the new release without a CD (http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/upgrading) Entirely agree with, there should be a greater focus on upgrading rather than fresh installs. * you can download your own CD for free (http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download) This is how most geeks get Ubuntu in my opinion. However, I'm not sure the average non-geek is comfortable with this process. I don't believe the process is made clear enough on the second download page [0]. The link to the wiki burning guide doesn't have enough emphasis. * you will be able to download the CD wallet artwork (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing/#CD%20Distribution%20Materials) Sure, but my main reason for having official CD's is the professional image it conveys when offering them to a stranger. Having a homebrew CDR with (or without) artwork doesn't cut the mustard for professionalism IMO. * becoming an Ubuntu member (http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember) by contributing to Ubuntu, and thereby becoming eligible for more CDs I'm not sure I agree that Ubuntu Members are those that need the CD's most. I would hope they would already know how to burn an ISO. I appreciate this might be marked as a reward for membership, but is it really the best use of CD's? * And finally, you can purchase CDs (http://shop.canonical.com/) I bet this is/and will be very underutilised. We will change the language on the ShipIt site to make it clearer what we are doing. We hope that you support this effort and realise that the intent is to continue to make Ubuntu available on CD to everyone who needs it. Jane Silber, Canonical SNIP Whilst I appreciate the ShipIt programme is not sustainable in it's current form - the quote of continue to make Ubuntu available on CD to everyone who needs it. leaves the question unanswered of those without broadband access or prior installations of Ubuntu to upgrade from. There is little doubt that this is essentially stopping the programme pretty much altogether. Would it not have been prudent to maintain the current process, but have a hard limit on available CD's per release and trial having a message during the shipit process asking people to only request if they really need them. [0] http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/downloading Kind Regards, Dave Walker -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: ShipIt Changes
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Dave Walker davewal...@ubuntu.com wrote: I'm not sure I agree that Ubuntu Members are those that need the CD's most. I would hope they would already know how to burn an ISO. I appreciate this might be marked as a reward for membership, but is it really the best use of CD's? I believe the rationale here is not that they need them personally, but that they are already heavily involved in Ubuntu, and are usually handing out CDs, giving talks, etc. -- Martin -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
shipit changes
I am extremely disappointed in seeing this move. Ubuntu Membership is difficult or impossible for new users to qualify. It is moving the community further out of the reach of non-programmers and new Linux users. The elite nature of membership is also diminishing its attraction to many. I have been a beta tester for Ubuntu for six years. I have generated almost 100 error reports. I have manually copied and distributed over 300 Ubuntu CD's. I operate a Google Group dedicated to Ubuntu. I teach Ubuntu for Beginners once a week and have for six years. And yet I cannot establish a LoCo (although my group is in over 30 in number) and I don't qualify for Ubuntu Membership. Since it appears that Cononical is out of the free CD business, I believe I am also. On Wed, 2009-10-21 at 18:03 +0200, Jono Bacon wrote: We will continue to supply CDs to LoCo teams and Ubuntu members. And we hope to make CDs available to everyone who is just discovering Ubuntu. And we continue to search for additional ways to make Ubuntu and Ubuntu materials available to everyone. But we are limiting shipments to people that we think have alternative paths of getting Ubuntu. For instance, * you can upgrade to the new release without a CD (http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/upgrading) * you can download your own CD for free (http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download) * you will be able to download the CD wallet artwork (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing/#CD%20Distribution%20Materials) * becoming an Ubuntu member (http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember) by contributing to Ubuntu, and thereby becoming eligible for more CDs * And finally, you can purchase CDs (http://shop.canonical.com/) We will change the language on the ShipIt site to make it clearer what we are doing. We hope that you support this effort and realise that the intent is to continue to make Ubuntu available on CD to everyone who needs it. Jane Silber, Canonical I hope this makes things clear. :-) Jono -- Jono Bacon Ubuntu Community Manager www.ubuntu.com / www.jonobacon.org www.identi.ca/jonobacon www.twitter.com/jonobacon -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: ShipIt Changes
I am extremely disappointed in seeing this move. Ubuntu Membership is difficult or impossible for new users to qualify. It is moving the community further out of the reach of non-programmers and new Linux users. The elite nature of membership is also diminishing its attraction to many. I have been a beta tester for Ubuntu for six years. I have generated almost 100 error reports. I have manually copied and distributed over 300 Ubuntu CD's. I operate a Google Group dedicated to Ubuntu. I teach Ubuntu for Beginners once a week and have for six years. And yet I cannot establish a LoCo (although my group is in over 30 in number) and I don't qualify for Ubuntu Membership. Since it appears that Cononical is out of the free CD business, I believe I am also. On Wed, 2009-10-21 at 18:03 +0200, Jono Bacon wrote: We will continue to supply CDs to LoCo teams and Ubuntu members. And we hope to make CDs available to everyone who is just discovering Ubuntu. And we continue to search for additional ways to make Ubuntu and Ubuntu materials available to everyone. But we are limiting shipments to people that we think have alternative paths of getting Ubuntu. For instance, * you can upgrade to the new release without a CD (http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/upgrading) * you can download your own CD for free (http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download) * you will be able to download the CD wallet artwork (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing/#CD%20Distribution%20Materials) * becoming an Ubuntu member (http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember) by contributing to Ubuntu, and thereby becoming eligible for more CDs * And finally, you can purchase CDs (http://shop.canonical.com/) We will change the language on the ShipIt site to make it clearer what we are doing. We hope that you support this effort and realise that the intent is to continue to make Ubuntu available on CD to everyone who needs it. Jane Silber, Canonical I hope this makes things clear. :-) Jono -- Jono Bacon Ubuntu Community Manager www.ubuntu.com / www.jonobacon.org www.identi.ca/jonobacon www.twitter.com/jonobacon -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: ShipIt Changes
2009/10/21 John Abbott fewcl...@gmail.com: I have been a beta tester for Ubuntu for six years. I have generated almost 100 error reports. I have manually copied and distributed over 300 Ubuntu CD's. I operate a Google Group dedicated to Ubuntu. I teach Ubuntu for Beginners once a week and have for six years. And yet I cannot establish a LoCo (although my group is in over 30 in number) and I don't qualify for Ubuntu Membership. If that's true I believe you do qualify for membership. Have you tried applying? Since it appears that Cononical is out of the free CD business What they've said is not that they will stop sending free CDs, but that they will try to concentrate this effort sending them to those who really need them; that sounds quite reasonable to me. Also, Canonical has no obligation at all to give us CDs for free, IMHO we should be grateful that they have been doing so. I believe I am also. It's your decision, but it's really sad if choose to stop contributing (if that's what you mean - I'm not sure I fully understand your last sentence) to a project only based on the associated company's decision possibly not to give you free CDs anymore. If you allow me to say so, I'd suggest you take some time to think about the situation and decide your future involvement taking into account more than just the availability of free CDs. Regards, -- Siegfried-Angel Gevatter Pujals (RainCT) Free Software Developer 363DEAE3 -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: ShipIt Changes
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 6:03 PM, Jono Bacon j...@ubuntu.com wrote: Hi All, [...] We will continue to supply CDs to LoCo teams and Ubuntu members. And we hope to make CDs available to everyone who is just discovering Ubuntu. And we continue to search for additional ways to make Ubuntu and Ubuntu materials available to everyone. But we are limiting shipments to people that we think have alternative paths of getting Ubuntu. For instance, * you can upgrade to the new release without a CD (http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/upgrading) * you can download your own CD for free (http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download) * you will be able to download the CD wallet artwork (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing/#CD%20Distribution%20Materials) * becoming an Ubuntu member (http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember) by contributing to Ubuntu, and thereby becoming eligible for more CDs * And finally, you can purchase CDs (http://shop.canonical.com/) I believe this is a very good thing and it's building a guarantee of viability for Ubuntu and Canonical. What i see here is an opportunity for LoCo teams to organize better and create channels of CD distribution locally within the country/state. We need better coordination of what is done with those CDs and have mechanisms to check the efficiency of the CD distribution. For example: * In Ecuador we had 12 CD distribution points back in 2008. This worked either by internal distribution (sending all CDs to all locations from the central contact point that received the Cds) og by asking for CDs on shipit on behalf of the Ecuador team. At a discussion locally many people highlighted the fact that many CDs where never actually put to use and proposed that we should sell them for $1 so only interested people would go for them. Of course we never did this, but the proponents of this had a point. * In Norway lots of CD's where handed to lots of people and groups (LUGs, LoCo team, enthusiastic individuals) but many of them where never used propertly because of lack of coordination. Since 2007 I know we have been better at that and now we are way more systematic in our approach of CD distribution (for the most at events). Maybe other local communities can share their experiences? We will change the language on the ShipIt site to make it clearer what we are doing. We hope that you support this effort and realise that the intent is to continue to make Ubuntu available on CD to everyone who needs it. We should explore which possibilities we can actually get out of this move, not just raise eyebrows on the evident limitations this will pose for many ubuntu users and complain. I can imagine using Launchpad as backend for authentication for LoCo teams (the Directory) asking for CDs on Ship-It. Team organization could also be helpful to create distribution points by having accountability on someone or a group of people locally. Jane Silber, Canonical I hope this makes things clear. :-) Pretty much! :) Jono -- Jono Bacon Ubuntu Community Manager www.ubuntu.com / www.jonobacon.org www.identi.ca/jonobacon www.twitter.com/jonobacon regards, Rubén Romero https://launchpad.net/~huayra -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: ShipIt Changes
2009/10/21 John Abbott fewcl...@gmail.com: I am extremely disappointed in seeing this move. Ubuntu Membership is difficult or impossible for new users to qualify. It is moving the community further out of the reach of non-programmers and new Linux users. The elite nature of membership is also diminishing its attraction to many. I have been a beta tester for Ubuntu for six years. I have generated almost 100 error reports. I have manually copied and distributed over 300 Ubuntu CD's. I operate a Google Group dedicated to Ubuntu. I teach Ubuntu for Beginners once a week and have for six years. And yet I cannot establish a LoCo (although my group is in over 30 in number) and I don't qualify for Ubuntu Membership. Since it appears that Cononical is out of the free CD business, I believe I am also. Why can't you establish a LoCo? Is there already one for your country/state? If there is an existing LoCo you should be able to get cds from them. In Pennsylvania we are more than happy to get cds to groups who are within our borders and interested in having cds on hand for events and for general evangelism. On Wed, 2009-10-21 at 18:03 +0200, Jono Bacon wrote: We will continue to supply CDs to LoCo teams and Ubuntu members. And we hope to make CDs available to everyone who is just discovering Ubuntu. And we continue to search for additional ways to make Ubuntu and Ubuntu materials available to everyone. But we are limiting shipments to people that we think have alternative paths of getting Ubuntu. For instance, * you can upgrade to the new release without a CD (http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/upgrading) * you can download your own CD for free (http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download) * you will be able to download the CD wallet artwork (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing/#CD%20Distribution%20Materials) * becoming an Ubuntu member (http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember) by contributing to Ubuntu, and thereby becoming eligible for more CDs * And finally, you can purchase CDs (http://shop.canonical.com/) We will change the language on the ShipIt site to make it clearer what we are doing. We hope that you support this effort and realise that the intent is to continue to make Ubuntu available on CD to everyone who needs it. Jane Silber, Canonical I hope this makes things clear. :-) Jono -- Jono Bacon Ubuntu Community Manager www.ubuntu.com / www.jonobacon.org www.identi.ca/jonobacon www.twitter.com/jonobacon -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts -- - Bret Why should I fret in microcosmic bonds That chafe the spirit, and the mind repress, When through the clouds gleam beckoning beyonds Where shining vistas mock man's littleness? - H.P. Lovecraft, Phaeton (1918) -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: ShipIt Changes
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 2:10 PM, John Abbott fewcl...@gmail.com wrote: I guess my problem is the elite attitude that is growing steadily in the Ubuntu Membership. Its forming a we/they division in the community that is going to turn off a lot of those migrating from Windows or other Linux communities. Can you elaborate on this? Like others I too was surprised that you hadn't applied for membership. I get the opposite vibe on membership, I've always seen the ability for a non-developer to become an Ubuntu member was a uniting factor in the project, not the other way around. Do you feel that there is a perception that there is a division being created by membership? -- Jorge Castro jorge (at) ubuntu.com External Project Developer Relations Canonical Ltd. -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: ShipIt Changes
Jorge, I am not inclined to rock the boat. I can only speak for our group here in the Tip of Texas. Of the 18 of us, 11 began testing Ubuntu 9.10Alpha #1 the day it became available. Not many of us have room for additional hardware so most dual boot with 9.04. We've turned in a lot of trouble reports. When I made the initial request to become a LoCo I may have shot myself in the foot by mentioning that we are probably the oldest aged group on Ubuntu. I live and teach in a retirement resort as well as the community Library. Our oldest Ubuntu User is an 84 year old woman who had never owned a computer before moving here in 2005. It the qualifying that is the hurdle for most of my members. None of them have a programming background and it took me two years to get them to use the terminal and command lines. When we planned our launch party we determined to hold it in the party room of the biggest pizza parlor in Southern Texas. We will have free pizza - free as in FLOSS! and we will have local TV Network coverage. We'll do it as the ToT-LUG. On Wed, 2009-10-21 at 14:24 -0400, Jorge O. Castro wrote: On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 2:10 PM, John Abbott fewcl...@gmail.com wrote: I guess my problem is the elite attitude that is growing steadily in the Ubuntu Membership. Its forming a we/they division in the community that is going to turn off a lot of those migrating from Windows or other Linux communities. Can you elaborate on this? Like others I too was surprised that you hadn't applied for membership. I get the opposite vibe on membership, I've always seen the ability for a non-developer to become an Ubuntu member was a uniting factor in the project, not the other way around. Do you feel that there is a perception that there is a division being created by membership? -- Jorge Castro jorge (at) ubuntu.com External Project Developer Relations Canonical Ltd. -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: shipit changes
2009/10/21 John Abbott fewcl...@gmail.com: I am extremely disappointed in seeing this move. Ubuntu Membership is difficult or impossible for new users to qualify. It is moving the community further out of the reach of non-programmers and new Linux users. The elite nature of membership is also diminishing its attraction to many. I have been a beta tester for Ubuntu for six years. I have generated almost 100 error reports. I have manually copied and distributed over 300 Ubuntu CD's. I operate a Google Group dedicated to Ubuntu. I teach Ubuntu for Beginners once a week and have for six years. And yet I cannot establish a LoCo (although my group is in over 30 in number) and I don't qualify for Ubuntu Membership. Why is that you cannot establish a LoCo team? Can we help with that? Since it appears that Cononical is out of the free CD business, I believe I am also. Well, its not out of free CDs, its a different approach and I tend to agree with it. I did not expect it to continue indefinitely the same way. -- Rafael Carreras Guillén | gpg.id 2C1AF9C5 http://rcarreras.caliu.cat http://blogs.fsfe.org/rcarreras -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: ShipIt Changes
2009/10/21 Jorge O. Castro jo...@ubuntu.com: Can you elaborate on this? Like others I too was surprised that you hadn't applied for membership. I get the opposite vibe on membership, I've always seen the ability for a non-developer to become an Ubuntu member was a uniting factor in the project, not the other way around. Do you feel that there is a perception that there is a division being created by membership? Indeed. In the membership board sessions I've seen (and taken part in) it's been the case that developers have actually been rejected more than non-developers. For the EMEA board we tend to push developers towards the MOTU route, and instead tend to approve members based on non-development activities. Whether that's testing, bug triage, artwork, documentation, support or whatever, we're very open to non-developers. I'm also keen to know how we can resolve issues relating to the perception of Ubuntu membership. Cheers, Al. -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: shipit changes
Let's not forget the extraordinary amount of money that Canonical provides to develop Ubuntu, let alone distribute it. If they need to take steps to keep that development alive, then we as Ubuntu users (and some of us members) should support that move. Furthermore, if you're capable of downloading a CD image and burning it, then why do you need a pressed CD? It more or less defeats the purpose. I have been a beta tester for Ubuntu for six years. I have generated almost 100 error reports. I have manually copied and distributed over 300 Ubuntu CD's. I operate a Google Group dedicated to Ubuntu. I teach Ubuntu for Beginners once a week and have for six years. And yet I cannot establish a LoCo (although my group is in over 30 in number) and I don't qualify for Ubuntu Membership. You don't qualify for membership? Sounds to me like you MORE than qualify, and I would encourage you to apply. If those are the least of your qualifications I'll certainly support your bid to become a member. Cheers, David Overcash -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: ShipIt Changes
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:03:12 +0200 Jono Bacon j...@ubuntu.com wrote: Hi All, One of the ways in which many people have been able to experience Ubuntu is via Canonical's ShipIt (http://shipit.ubuntu.com/) program, which has shipped millions of CDs to new users. This has provided a valuable opportunity for new users to try Ubuntu and for our community teams to obtain CDs as part of their advocacy efforts. Due to the sheer growth of Ubuntu, we are making a few changes to ShipIt which I wanted to ensure I share with you. For the details, I am going to turn the mic over to everyone's favorite Canonical COO, Jane Silber who updated us on the Canonical blog (http://blog.canonical.com/?p=264): - --snip-- I remember way back when.. All the way back when I could order a box of pressed CD's to hand out. I converted a whopping 20 users. I would get both KDE and Gnome for every release. The problem was that I had was I never got rid of them all. I never really had any issues until the shipments were pretty much cut to a single cd/user. After that I got used to the idea of burning a cd and handing it out. Now this comes along and when I first read the message I thought to myself; this isn't really a change. After I read the details further I started thinking that this sounds like a good idea. Ubuntu is already the most giving distribution. You don't even have to have a significant online presence to gain membership. We're given a lot. What other distribution can you use to get a membership to LWN? We get more than just that. We also promote an extremely diverse range of users with our LoCo's. We have boys/girls that haven't reached teens all the way to men/women in their 80's. Perhaps beyond. What does this mean? It means that Ubuntu is reaching a very very large market. Canonical is the company that owns Ubuntu and funds all Ubuntu operations (we all know this). Think about it this way; if you were single handedly responsible for buying CD's, labeling them, packaging them, then shipping them to every person in your country.. could you afford it? Canonical isn't shipping them to just your country, they're shipping them to every country on every continent. The idea of getting one cd for every release, I like that idea. I was doing it but I lost a lot of CD's and I don't have them. To be perfectly honest, I don't see any reason not to purchase these from the shop. I know I've had issues in the Ubuntu community. I've reduced where I offer support due to these issues. I've seen it impact other areas as well, not just for me. Regardless of this, I've never seen Shuttleworth just take a decision like this lightly. Even the desktop background we all experience isn't a decision he'd take without careful consideration. Personally, I'd like to see financial records to see just how much money does go to these little extras they provide. On a side note; is it possible for me to buy a nice pressed CD for each release since 5.04? To be perfectly honest, I'm wondering if it would be possible to just get the CD sleeves and press the CD's myself. I think many users are surprised ShipIt has survived for so long. Taking steps to prevent it's exhaustion is probably a very good idea. Perhaps the have's should help out the have-not's a little more. :) - -- Michael Lustfield Kalliki Software Network and Systems Administrator -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkrfdgUACgkQ3y7Nst6YLGW96QCfdHV7Rs7cUN9pYYCI1786CUad u18AnjRNBSQF/1YzfVWYpjLlzGpauH6M =hwJk -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: ShipIt Changes
Hello Mike, Jane via Jono, On Wed, 2009-10-21 at 15:58 -0500, Michael Lustfield wrote: Canonical is the company that owns Ubuntu and funds all Ubuntu operations (we all know this). Er, perhaps it's because I have an economists vision of 'funds' but a volunteers time is funding, contributions from LoCos is funding by time. Oh how I wish Canonical would fund marketing budgets, but that's really for us in the Ubuntu community to fund with our time. The CDs are very handy, especially for shows. Since our group has moved to using PXE for installations, we've reduced the number of CDs given out over time, but we still need them. On Wed, 2009-10-21 at 18:03 +0200, Jane Silber wrote: We hope that you support this effort and realise that the intent is to continue to make Ubuntu available on CD to everyone who needs it. Something to throw out there. Something Cory Doctorow was saying about funding his books for libraries. If people request a shipment of CDs, I wonder if there would be a way to get the community to fund some of it. Would it be terrible to have a more economic partnership between different groups who may want to take advantage of shipit CDs? Then one kind person could just buy the CDs for someone else's request. One down side I guess is that you might have commercial exploitation, people selling CDs that they've bought from shipit. Martin, -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: ShipIt Changes
I totally Agree Michael. I have pointed to the shipit program as one of the most outstanding efforts of Linux Evangelism anywhere. I seem to have been whining in public and on the wrong forum. I support Ubuntu's position and would prefer to see that money put into development. I have supported Ubuntu by purchasing and giving out their mugs (12 so far) as door prizes. I have purchased and handed out four t-shirts - notebooks and pens. And I will continue doing this as long as possible. My only exception was making the CD's available to members - who certainly should know how to burn their own. When we have our launch party I will be giving out 50 CD's - all burned and printed locally. My only real desire for the packs would be the professionally printed jackets. I have placed a pre-order to purchase professionally packaged CDs - that will not arrive in time for our launch party. On Wed, 2009-10-21 at 15:58 -0500, Michael Lustfield wrote: To be perfectly honest, I'm wondering if it would be possible to just get the CD sleeves and press the CD's myself. -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: ShipIt Changes
În data de Mi, 21-10-2009 la 17:21 +0100, Hanen Ben Rhouma a scris: Sincerely, I don't like the idea. Now, not only to get an ubuntu email id but also to get a simple original CD we have to become Ubuntu members!! (that's really not making sense for me especially that those who need that precious CD are out of scope of being elligible to get it for free which is an important motive to join the track). From my point of view, people should not become Ubuntu member just to receive an email address or free CD. Rather, Ubuntu membership is a acknowledgment for your contributions to Ubuntu, and beside subscription to LWN, you can also get a CD. On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Jono Bacon j...@ubuntu.com wrote: * you will be able to download the CD wallet artwork (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing/#CD%20Distribution% 20Materials) Looking forward for Ubuntu 9.10 Wallet and CD artwork. It would be great to have them before the release, as we have found some local business willing to create some CDs for our release party. Cheers! -- Adi Roiban -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: ShipIt Changes
Op woensdag 21-10-2009 om 14:31 uur [tijdzone -0400], schreef Daniel Chen: On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 2:10 PM, John Abbott fewcl...@gmail.com wrote: I guess my problem is the elite attitude that is growing steadily in the Ubuntu Membership. Its forming a we/they division in the community that is going to turn off a lot of those migrating from Windows or other Linux communities. Would you cite examples of this perception, please? It's better for everyone in the long run if we work together [to fix said examples]. I have seen I'm an Ubuntu Member and he's not used as an argument in conflicts, so it's not entirely untrue that some people regard it as an elite position for themselves... -- Jan Claeys -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
