Re: feedback on middle-clicking tab behavior
On Thu, Aug 04, 2016 at 04:53:13PM +0200, Helge Hafting wrote: > Middle-clicking on a tab does not provide a location, only which document to > paste into. So I would expect the current selection to be pasted into the > current cursor position of the document in that tab. Interesting, I didn't think about this possible expectation. > > 1b. What do you think *should* happen? > Pasting into another document than the active one may be useful, but > dangerous if the user don't see what happens. So perhaps LyX should switch > to that document so the user don't get surprised later. Or perhaps this > should only work for the active tab? We decided to set it so that middle-click closes a tab. In my opinion the strongest argument for why this makes sense is because Chromium and Firefox do it. I don't think that should be the only argument, but since we don't have UI specialists here, I think it's good to try to be as consistent as possible with other tab-related applications. > > > > 2a. What do you *expect* to happen if you middle-click on the space to the > > right of the tabs? I'm referring to the blank space where if you had > > more tabs it would take that space up. > Nothing - pasting anything there makes no sense. If I want a context menu, > I'll right-click. > > 2b. What do you think *should* happen? > Nothing. Unless you can come up with something useful? To be intuitive, it'd > have to be paste-related? Middle-click is not just used for paste. See above. > Note that making every part of the screen sensitive to clicks & drags is > unpleasant. It is nice to have some places where a click/drag is not > "dangerous" - so one can click to raise/focus the window (or check if it has > focus already). But this applies more to the left button. Good point. I agree. Not just for raise/focus behavior but also for errant clicks. For a similar reason I think that saturating the keyboard shortcuts (i.e. assigning a shortcut to every key combination) is not a good idea. Thanks for the feedback, Helge. Scott signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: feedback on middle-clicking tab behavior
Den 20. juli 2016 08:33, skrev Scott Kostyshak: Dear LyX users, I'm implementing a very small feature and before I proceed further I would like to get a little feedback. I have two questions that are relevant if you have more than one document open in LyX, using tabs. 1a. What do you *expect* to happen if you middle-click on a tab? Middle-click is "paste", it pastes the current selection into whatever the mouse cursor is over. A very useful feature of X11, one can quickly mark & paste stuff without having to use "ctrl+c" or menu choices like "copy" and "paste". A nice and extremely quick way of getting text from one place to another. Works inside LyX, and works between LyX and other programs (web browsers, terminals, ...) Middle-clicking inside the main window pastes at the location clicked.Middle-clicking anywhere text can be entered, will paste text there. Middle-clicking on a tab does not provide a location, only which document to paste into. So I would expect the current selection to be pasted into the current cursor position of the document in that tab. 1b. What do you think *should* happen? Pasting into another document than the active one may be useful, but dangerous if the user don't see what happens. So perhaps LyX should switch to that document so the user don't get surprised later. Or perhaps this should only work for the active tab? 2a. What do you *expect* to happen if you middle-click on the space to the right of the tabs? I'm referring to the blank space where if you had more tabs it would take that space up. Nothing - pasting anything there makes no sense. If I want a context menu, I'll right-click. 2b. What do you think *should* happen? Nothing. Unless you can come up with something useful? To be intuitive, it'd have to be paste-related? Note that making every part of the screen sensitive to clicks & drags is unpleasant. It is nice to have some places where a click/drag is not "dangerous" - so one can click to raise/focus the window (or check if it has focus already). But this applies more to the left button. Helge Hafting
Re: feedback on middle-clicking tab behavior
On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 07:52:59PM +0200, racoon wrote: > How about a "full screen" option that is still windowed, i.e. a windowed > mode that gets rid of selected elements, like toolbars and tabs? > > - To begin with it could use the same settings of hidden elements as full > screen. > > - Keyboard shortcut: Some modifier+F11? > > I am just brainstorming... I'm sure there are improvements to be made. If you have something you think makes sense make a ticket so we don't forget about it. Scott signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: feedback on middle-clicking tab behavior
On 22.07.2016 11:17, Scott Kostyshak wrote: On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 10:41:08AM +0200, racoon wrote: On 21.07.2016 02:04, Scott Kostyshak wrote: On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 07:32:01PM -0400, Scott Kostyshak wrote: Interesting idea. I guess we do not show it to use the extra space, but I'm not sure which is best. I doubt we are going to change this by default [...] (Sorry for being slightly off-topic.) I am not sure I understand why though. If the reason is that the extra space is important to have then something should be done about the spaces in LyX in general. Because I guess often people work with several tabs anyway and if space is a problem there, then it is a more general problem. Yes it would be nice to improve vertical space in other ways. How about a "full screen" option that is still windowed, i.e. a windowed mode that gets rid of selected elements, like toolbars and tabs? - To begin with it could use the same settings of hidden elements as full screen. - Keyboard shortcut: Some modifier+F11? I am just brainstorming... Daniel
Re: feedback on middle-clicking tab behavior
On 07/21/2016 04:20 PM, Scott Kostyshak wrote: or www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/10289 Thanks Scott, it was 10289. I added a comment to the discussion there.
Re: feedback on middle-clicking tab behavior
On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 10:41:08AM +0200, racoon wrote: > On 21.07.2016 02:04, Scott Kostyshak wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 07:32:01PM -0400, Scott Kostyshak wrote: > > > > > > Interesting idea. I guess we do not show it to use the extra space, but > > > I'm not sure which is best. > > > > I doubt we are going to change this by default [...] > > (Sorry for being slightly off-topic.) > > I am not sure I understand why though. > > If the reason is that the extra space is important to have then something > should be done about the spaces in LyX in general. Because I guess often > people work with several tabs anyway and if space is a problem there, then > it is a more general problem. Yes it would be nice to improve vertical space in other ways. > Always showing tabs seems also like pretty much the standard in other > applications (e.g. browsers). Good point. I wonder if it makes a difference that LyX has some toolbars that take up a lot of space up top, and Chromium and Firefox do not. > My guess is, as I suggested, that this is > because there are certain functionalities when tabs are shown that users get > used to which are lost when they are hidden. I'm not sure what the reason is, but what you put makes sense. > > I guess tabs could be shown by default but there could be a switch in > > Tools > Preferences... > Look & Feel > Document Handling. Could be. Scott signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: feedback on middle-clicking tab behavior
On 21.07.2016 02:04, Scott Kostyshak wrote: On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 07:32:01PM -0400, Scott Kostyshak wrote: Interesting idea. I guess we do not show it to use the extra space, but I'm not sure which is best. I doubt we are going to change this by default [...] (Sorry for being slightly off-topic.) I am not sure I understand why though. If the reason is that the extra space is important to have then something should be done about the spaces in LyX in general. Because I guess often people work with several tabs anyway and if space is a problem there, then it is a more general problem. Always showing tabs seems also like pretty much the standard in other applications (e.g. browsers). My guess is, as I suggested, that this is because there are certain functionalities when tabs are shown that users get used to which are lost when they are hidden. I guess tabs could be shown by default but there could be a switch in Tools > Preferences... > Look & Feel > Document Handling. Daniel
Re: feedback on middle-clicking tab behavior
On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 03:22:59PM -0400, PhilipPirrip wrote: > > > 1a. What do you *expect* to happen if you middle-click on a tab? > Nothing > > > > 1b. What do you think *should* happen? > > Switch to Master document. Interesting idea. > PLUS > Left-click on a tab should switch to previously opened tab (switch between > two documents) There is a trac ticket that you might be interested that suggests something similar (if I understand correctly). We are not currently thinking about implementing it but perhaps you could join the conversation. Trac is not working well now so I can't find the ticket. I will take a guess though, and guess that it is either www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/10287 or www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/10289 Let me know if you can't find it once trac is back. > > 2a. What do you *expect* to happen if you middle-click on the space to the > > right of the tabs? I'm referring to the blank space where if you had > > more tabs it would take that space up. > Nothing. > > > > > 2b. What do you think *should* happen? > Nothing. Nothing is the planned behavior for this one. Thanks for the feedback, Scott signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: feedback on middle-clicking tab behavior
On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 03:26:22PM -0400, PhilipPirrip wrote: > On 07/20/2016 07:50 PM, Scott Kostyshak wrote: > > 1. close the tab on middle-click > > Would you still keep all the [×] buttons? Yes. In my opinion middle-click should never replace any other behavior. It should just add some bonus convenience. In this case, the convenience is not having to precisely put the mouse over the tiny 'x'. But yes, we will definitely keep the tiny 'x'. Scott signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: feedback on middle-clicking tab behavior
On 07/20/2016 07:50 PM, Scott Kostyshak wrote: 1. close the tab on middle-click Would you still keep all the [×] buttons?
Re: feedback on middle-clicking tab behavior
1a. What do you *expect* to happen if you middle-click on a tab? Nothing 1b. What do you think *should* happen? Switch to Master document. PLUS Left-click on a tab should switch to previously opened tab (switch between two documents) 2a. What do you *expect* to happen if you middle-click on the space to the right of the tabs? I'm referring to the blank space where if you had more tabs it would take that space up. Nothing. 2b. What do you think *should* happen? Nothing.
Re: feedback on middle-clicking tab behavior
Le 21/07/2016 à 02:04, Scott Kostyshak a écrit : On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 07:32:01PM -0400, Scott Kostyshak wrote: Interesting idea. I guess we do not show it to use the extra space, but I'm not sure which is best. I doubt we are going to change this by default, but if you want it for your local build, just change the following: // Hide tabbar if there's only one tab. showBar(count() > 1); If the tabbar was handled as a toolbar, it could have on/off/auto properties. I am not sure that such a thing is possible, though. JMarc
Re: feedback on middle-clicking tab behavior
On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 07:32:01PM -0400, Scott Kostyshak wrote: > > Interesting idea. I guess we do not show it to use the extra space, but > I'm not sure which is best. I doubt we are going to change this by default, but if you want it for your local build, just change the following: // Hide tabbar if there's only one tab. showBar(count() > 1); Scott signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: feedback on middle-clicking tab behavior
On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 09:44:52AM +1200, gordon cooper wrote: > 1a & 1b also 2a & 2b. I wold not expect anything to happen. > > With my present mouse, which has a fairly light touch, I would > prefer things to stay as they are - nothing. The scroll and middle > button are combined and as I tend to scroll often, another function > (as happens in another application where middle button activates > paste) could be annoying. or else I develop a lighter touch. You might want to disable middle-click on your mouse if it leads to annoying behavior in more than one program (note that middle-button for pasting the most recent selection is pretty common). That said, I'm sure there are others who have the same opinion. Nonetheless, because there is precedent (i.e. other programs implement similar behavior, see below), I think we will implement some behavior. After thinking about the feedback, I think that the most reasonable approach is to: 1. close the tab on middle-click 2. do nothing when middle-clicking the blank space The main reason for (1) is simply because Chromium and Firefox do it. And although I can understand why some might be hesitant because of an errant middle-click, my guess is that it does not happen too often, and when it does happen there is no bad consecuence (Paul will be surprised that the universe does not implode): if you have unsaved data, you will be prompted just as you would be if you clicked on the "x". And if you don't have unsaved data, it might be confusing how one of the tabs disappeared but you will be able to reopen it without any data loss. Note that (1) was requested here: http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/10288 (2) was more up in the air because Firefox opens a new tab, and Chromium does nothing. Further, as Shay pointed out, we don't have a "new document" button like in Firefox and Chromium. However, you can double-click in the blank area to open a tab; and further judgingi from the responses it seems like "nothing" is a reasonable choice. Thank you all for the feedback! I will try to poll lyx-users more often. I always get good feedback here. The only thing is that I usually work on minor features so it is not a very exciting thing to give feedback on. But as long as I get a few bites, I'll keep fishing. Scott signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: feedback on middle-clicking tab behavior
On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 02:41:52PM +0100, Shay Riggs wrote: > 1a. I’d expect the tab to close on middle-click (like Chrome). > 1b. I think the tab should close. > > 2a. I wouldn’t expect anything to happen. > 2b. I don’t think anything should happen – but it would be great if there > were a “new tab/document” button (like Chrome). I’d expect that to create a > blank document using whatever the default settings are. (Can this be > specified somewhere?) I know it's not what you want, but you can currentl double-click on the blank space and that creates a new tab. Thanks for the info. Scott signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: feedback on middle-clicking tab behavior
On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 07:33:05PM +, Paul A. Rubin wrote: > Scott Kostyshak lyx.org> writes: > > I assume when you say "on a tab" you mean on the tab header. > > > > 1a. What do you *expect* to happen if you middle-click on a tab? > > The universe to implode (the Big Un-Bang?). Well I guess we beat your expectations. You set a high bar. > > 1b. What do you think *should* happen? > > Nothing. If I middle-clicked on a tab, it was an accident. > > > 2a. What do you *expect* to happen if you middle-click on the space to the > > right of the tabs? I'm referring to the blank space where if you had > > more tabs it would take that space up. > > 2b. What do you think *should* happen? > > Same as 1a and 1b. > > Given that I have never had the impulse to middle-click either place, and > that it's hard to do accidentally on my laptop and not terribly easily on my > desktop, as far as I'm concerned you have carte blanche to assign anything > lawful to either. This is useful and probably a common opinion. Thanks, Scott signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: feedback on middle-clicking tab behavior
On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 09:48:39AM +0200, racoon wrote: > On 20.07.2016 08:33, Scott Kostyshak wrote: > > Dear LyX users, > > > > I'm implementing a very small feature and before I proceed further I > > would like to get a little feedback. I have two questions that are > > relevant if you have more than one document open in LyX, using tabs. > > > > 1a. What do you *expect* to happen if you middle-click on a tab? > > 1b. What do you think *should* happen? > > > > 2a. What do you *expect* to happen if you middle-click on the space to the > > right of the tabs? I'm referring to the blank space where if you had > > more tabs it would take that space up. > > 2b. What do you think *should* happen? > > > > Note that "nothing" is a perfectly acceptable answer. The "expect" > > question is more about whether you're familiar with how things happen in > > other applications that use tabs; the "should" question is more about > > your opinion on what you would like to happen. > > > > Scott > > I was not expecting anything to happen since most of the time I used a > portable computer that has no middle mouse button. > > This is no answer you were seeking, but I think if anything should happen, > it is a good idea to always show the tabs even if only one document is open. > Otherwise the functionality works only in some context (where tabs are > shown) but not others (where they aren't) and one would probably get used to > a way to do things that always works (keyboard, menu, or software buttons). Interesting idea. I guess we do not show it to use the extra space, but I'm not sure which is best. Scott signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: feedback on middle-clicking tab behavior
1a & 1b also 2a & 2b. I wold not expect anything to happen. With my present mouse, which has a fairly light touch, I would prefer things to stay as they are - nothing. The scroll and middle button are combined and as I tend to scroll often, another function (as happens in another application where middle button activates paste) could be annoying. or else I develop a lighter touch. Gordon.
Re: feedback on middle-clicking tab behavior
Scott Kostyshak lyx.org> writes: I assume when you say "on a tab" you mean on the tab header. > > 1a. What do you *expect* to happen if you middle-click on a tab? The universe to implode (the Big Un-Bang?). > 1b. What do you think *should* happen? Nothing. If I middle-clicked on a tab, it was an accident. > 2a. What do you *expect* to happen if you middle-click on the space to the > right of the tabs? I'm referring to the blank space where if you had > more tabs it would take that space up. > 2b. What do you think *should* happen? Same as 1a and 1b. Given that I have never had the impulse to middle-click either place, and that it's hard to do accidentally on my laptop and not terribly easily on my desktop, as far as I'm concerned you have carte blanche to assign anything lawful to either. Paul
Re: feedback on middle-clicking tab behavior
1a. I’d expect the tab to close on middle-click (like Chrome). 1b. I think the tab should close. 2a. I wouldn’t expect anything to happen. 2b. I don’t think anything should happen – but it would be great if there were a “new tab/document” button (like Chrome). I’d expect that to create a blank document using whatever the default settings are. (Can this be specified somewhere?) -- Shay On 20 July 2016 at 07:33, Scott Kostyshakwrote: > Dear LyX users, > > I'm implementing a very small feature and before I proceed further I > would like to get a little feedback. I have two questions that are > relevant if you have more than one document open in LyX, using tabs. > > 1a. What do you *expect* to happen if you middle-click on a tab? > 1b. What do you think *should* happen? > > 2a. What do you *expect* to happen if you middle-click on the space to the > right of the tabs? I'm referring to the blank space where if you had > more tabs it would take that space up. > 2b. What do you think *should* happen? > > Note that "nothing" is a perfectly acceptable answer. The "expect" > question is more about whether you're familiar with how things happen in > other applications that use tabs; the "should" question is more about > your opinion on what you would like to happen. > > Scott >
Re: feedback on middle-clicking tab behavior
Le 20/07/2016 à 15:41, Shay Riggs a écrit : I’d expect that to create a blank document using whatever the default settings are. (Can this be specified somewhere?) Yes, by using the "Save as Document Defaults" button of Document>Settings. JMarc
Re: feedback on middle-clicking tab behavior
On 20.07.2016 08:33, Scott Kostyshak wrote: Dear LyX users, I'm implementing a very small feature and before I proceed further I would like to get a little feedback. I have two questions that are relevant if you have more than one document open in LyX, using tabs. 1a. What do you *expect* to happen if you middle-click on a tab? 1b. What do you think *should* happen? 2a. What do you *expect* to happen if you middle-click on the space to the right of the tabs? I'm referring to the blank space where if you had more tabs it would take that space up. 2b. What do you think *should* happen? Note that "nothing" is a perfectly acceptable answer. The "expect" question is more about whether you're familiar with how things happen in other applications that use tabs; the "should" question is more about your opinion on what you would like to happen. Scott I was not expecting anything to happen since most of the time I used a portable computer that has no middle mouse button. This is no answer you were seeking, but I think if anything should happen, it is a good idea to always show the tabs even if only one document is open. Otherwise the functionality works only in some context (where tabs are shown) but not others (where they aren't) and one would probably get used to a way to do things that always works (keyboard, menu, or software buttons). Daniel