rdumain
-clip- Wasn't there some association between the Hegelian Deborites and
non-Pavlovian, anti-reductionist Soviet psychologists in the 1920s?
^^
CB: Jim says something on this:
It is also interest that the issues underlying the debate between the
mechanists and the
WL: The social struggle after Los Angeles 1992, - as it is emerging in
front of
us, between this destitute segment of the population, called the new class
or the communist proletariat, is not a class conflict but a form of society
moving in class antagonism. This struggle is spontaneously by
WL: Specifically, the concept of antagonism I deploy is different from that
of the Marxists and communist of the period of the Third International or
how antagonism was articulated in various philosophic schools of thought in
the
Soviet Union and even the era of the Sino-Soviet split.
^^^
CB:
Waistline2:
CB: How was the concept of antagonism deployed by the Marxists and
communists of the period of the Third International ?
How was antagonism employed by the CPC during the period of the
Sino-Soviet split ?
WL: See Textbook of Marxist Philosophy 1939 for the theoretical exposition.
Is this what you are talking about ?
CB
: [Marxism] Marx Theory and the Workers
* To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
* Subject: Re: [Marxism] Marx Theory and the Workers
* From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL
Is this an articulation of it ?
CB
Re: [A-List] Dance of the Dialectic: Steps in Marx's Method -Review
* To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
* Subject: Re: [A-List] Dance of the Dialectic: Steps in Marx's
Method -Review
*
The distinguishing feature of communism is not the abolition of property
generally, but the abolition of bourgeois property. But modern bourgeois
private property is the final and most complete expression of the system of
producing and appropriating products that is based on _class antagonisms_,
http://www.therandirhodesshow.com/live/
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...guild-master (that is, a full member of a guild, a master
within, not a head of a guild. [Engels: 1888 English edition] )
and journeyman, in a word, oppressor and oppressed.
Are masonic orgs rooted in this feudal class anatagonism ? Lord/serf was not
the only class antagonism in feudalism
Marx's Reaction Against Hegel
http://faculty.washington.edu/wtalbott/phil332/trmarxI.htm
Marx claims to have turned Hegel on his head, in the following way:
1. The Individual and Particular Has Priority Over the Universal
(Materialism replaces Idealism). Start from the individual and
II -- PROLETARIANS AND COMMUNISTS
In what relation do the Communists stand to the proletarians as a whole? The
Communists do not form a separate party opposed to the other working-class
parties.
They have no interests separate and apart from those of the
The Randi Rhodes Show
Photos
http://forums.therandirhodesshow.com/index.php?act=modulemodule=gallery
Contact
Randi Swag http://www.cafepress.com/randirhodes
Listen Live
Newsletter
WL: Here is a question for you. How to you articlate Marx conception of
antagonism? Why did you delete Marx and Engels concept of society moving in
class antagonism from the quote in the Communist Manifesto?
^
CB: Where is what you are referring to in the below ?
WL: By deleting the last sentence in Engels statement, where he speaks of
antagonism, you changed its meaning and this denies that society moves in
class antagonism rather than class struggle. Below is the sentence you
deleted, which I included from the exact same quote prior to your reply
above.
CB: Here's what you call deleted included. It doesn't differentiate
between class struggle and class antagonism, as you claim; or rather
class struggle goes on because of class antagonism. Class antagonism means
the interests
of the antagonistic classes are irreconcilable. Class antagonism means
Books by Jack Rasmus: The Corporate Offensive Against American Workers and
Unions from Ronald Reagan to George W. Bush
What Reviewers Say About THE WAR AT HOME
http://www.kyklosproductions.com/posts/index.php?p=37
Reviewers Comments
Did you like Howard Zinns, A People's History of the
What's Randi doing on her vacation? Reading this!
Complete timeline of the 2003 Invasion of Iraq: Key Events related to issues
raised in Downing Street Memo
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_timeline_
of_the_2003_invasion_of_iraqkey_events=DSM
M A R C H O N W A L L S T R E E T NYC
R E V I V E T H E P O O R P E O P L E' S
C A M P A I G N
On the 50th Anniversary of Dec. 1, 1955, the day in Montgomery Alabama that
Rosa Parks sparked the modern Civil Rights Movement -- A Call for
A NATIONWIDE PROTEST AGAINST
POVERTY, RACISM WAR
http://www.flashfunpages.com/couple.swf
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Waistline2
-clip-
Here is the reason in my personal history I evolved along a path of Marxism
that inherits the Stalin pole of American communism. Along with this pole is
a different language of Marxism that expresses with clarity the life and
social movement of our working class for the past
Specification of new class struggle thesis - 3Waistline2 at aol.com
Waistline2
Part 3
Earlier today, a memorial was held for Rosa Parks, who passed October 24,
2005. Rosa Parks was crowned the Mother of the Civil Rights Movement for
her
individual role and arrest December 1, 1955, in
Waistline2 :
CB: I've heard it said that Rosa Parks was in the CPUSA at the time she
satdown.
WL: What is the point?
CB: You had just run down a whole thing about the problems of the CPUSA in
the South, how the CPUSA was in trouble.
Then you end with then Rosa Parks happened. Would be kind
WL :
What are these relations of production in their totality? YOU STATE PROPERTY
as class. Is it not clear that property is an aspect of relations of
production. What I wrote is that relations of production or production
relations or social relations of production are the laws defining
WL: I am aware of your usage of relations of production. The dispute began
because you stated in no uncertain terms that my use of relations of
production was at variance with Marx and I then presented my basis in Marx
writings. The
question to me is to deal with what Marx wrote and I presented.
PARIS, France (AP) -- Violence erupted for a sixth night Tuesday in the
troubled suburbs northeast of Paris with police firing rubber bullets and
tear gas as they faced down gangs of youths in Aulnay-sous-Bois, according
to witnesses.
A store set afire in the nearby suburb of Bondy, France-Info
VIEWING AT THE MUSEUM: A holy presence inspires family's tribute to Parks
November 2, 2005
BY NIRAJ WARIKOO
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER
Up before dawn, James Netter ambled into his living room and gazed at an old
photo of him sitting next to Rosa Parks.
RELATED CONTENT
*
Rosa Parks
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Jump to: navigation, search
Rosa Louise McCauley Parks
Rosa Louise McCauley Parks
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c4/Rosaparks.jpg/200px-Rosaparks.jpg
Mother of the Civil
WL says:
Lets proceed from the Marxism of CB. Comrade CB defines relations of
production as class relations and under capitalism the primary social
classes are
bourgeois proletarian and the petty bourgeoisie. These are the three great
social
class of which Marx speaks. These classes are the
WL: Revolution comes about as a result of
the development of the means of production.
CB: However in the current computer rev in the means of production , a
revolution has not come about.
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WL:Dammit, the feudal political order and the agrarian system it stood upon
were
overthrown by classes outside the primary social classes that made the
system
what it was - the bourgeoisie and the modern working class.
^^^
CB: You are a liar. :)
WL: Fine. What of the issues. I cannot understand what you write from your
framework. Deal with the issue.
^^^
CB: I have already dealt with the issue several times. The curent or
latest leaps in the development of the instruments of production have not
led to a rev over throwing bourgeois
Comrade, one moment you are the self appointed designator of what is
classical Marxism and the next moment you demand a thousand definitions to
everything,
which I provide, and then when we disagree you get hurt.
^
CB: I act no more like the self appointed designator of what is classical
I apparently have thicker skin.
CB: If so, it's not apparent.
^^^
And of course I tend to speak with
authenticity of experience and a verifiable record for what I write.
^
CB: Not really,
^
From my standpoint
you have not been able to understand dialectic and
Waistline2
WL: Revolution comes about as a result of
the development of the means of production.
CB: However in the current computer rev in the means of production , a
revolution has not come about.
WL: -clip-
I defined what I mean by revolution as a process
that is taking place in
This says Toffler talks about a super-industrial society.
CB
^^
Future Shock
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Jump to: navigation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Shock#column-one ,
search http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Shock#searchInput
Cover of Future Shock
W^^^
CB; That's because you are the self-appointed arbiter of understanding
dialectic and antagonism.
WL: Actually I stated my source. Please state yours and prove me a liar.
^
CB: I cited the passage from _The Manifesto of the Communist Party_. Therein
Marx and Engels discuss class
The distinguishing feature of communism is not the abolition of property
generally, but the abolition of bourgeois property. But modern bourgeois
private property is the final and most complete expression of the system of
producing and appropriating products that is based on _class antagonisms_
CB: As the theory of the national question and the African American people,
I've
heard your discussion of it a number of times, and your criticism of the
CPUSA positions. What you say is ... I don't know what to call it...It's
doesn't seem out and out wrong, but it's not particularly persuasive.
Waistline2
This says Toffler talks about a super-industrial society.
CB
^^
WL: Have you read the books? I have - many times, back when they were first
published. Here is the curve of Tofflers writings, which provide an outline
and
back drop: 1970 - Future Shock - read; 1980 - The Third
Waistline2 :
Speaking of the spreading revolt.
There is no such thing as a final revolution. All revolutions fail but
never totally. The metabolism of revolutions is that there is a long
incubation period building up pressure which erupts with irrational
force. The irrationality of the
at aol.com Waistline2
Here is the stirring of the new proletariat following the same social logic
as the 1992 Los Angeles rebellion. Sorry if this does not look like the
workers revolts.
^^
CB: Yea, LA pretty much looks like revolt, not revolution.
What is this a Stalinist theory of
Class antagonism in The Manifesto/exposition Waistline2 at aol.com
The distinguishing feature of communism is not the abolition of property
generally, but the abolition of bourgeois property. But modern bourgeois
private
property is the final and most complete
WL: The antagonism being lived out during the time of Marx was between the
evolution and rise of the industrial system and its bourgeois mode of
production versus the landed property relations and its political
superstructure called feudalism.
^^^
CB: But this is not the way in which Marx and
WL: This is not true because bourgeois property does not arise on the basis
of
private property but rather on the basis of a certain stage in the
development
of the productive forces - commodity production, that compels a change in
the
form of private property. Private property exists before
By Benjamin Kang Lim and Guo Shipeng
BEIJING (Reuters) - China's Communist Party plans to spend millions of
dollars
to revive Marxism in an apparent bid to shore up its political legitimacy
and
fill an ideological vacuum that has spawned official corruption. The step
might
seem unusual coming
When an idea grips the masses, it becomes a material force. The printing
press may have revolutionized the way in which ideas might grip masses. The
printing press' product's use-value is to be read and gripped by the ideas
in the document printed.
Waistline2 at aol.com
WL: The antagonism being lived out during the time of Marx was between the
evolution and rise of the industrial system and its bourgeois mode of
production
versus the landed property relations and its political superstructure called
feudalism.
^^^ CB: But this is not the way in which Marx and
One way to think of it is that antagonistic contradictions are
irreconcilable. One side or the other of the contradiction has to go. Or one
side can't gain without the other side losing ( zero sum game is
antagonistic contradiction.
But like all definitions, this is limited .
Charles
The antagonism between the social nature of production and the private
nature of appropriation or property is what you are trying to get at.
Technical production as it develops makes itself more and more social. Marx
assumes that the overall division or socialisation of labor increases ;
maybe on
Wall Street Journal - November 11, 2005
Supply Side
The War Against the Car
A few years ago, I made a presentation to my second-grader's social
studies class, asking the kids what was the worst invention in
history. I was shocked when a number of them answered the car. When
I asked why,
It is not necesssary to pander to or imply nasty racism or national
chauvinism in describing the process of running away shops from U.S.
workers. The demand may be keep these shops here and build new shops in
other countries; i.e. stop the imperialist policy of preventing industrial
development
Ralph Dumain:
-clip-
(4) takes on Engels' remarks about Kant, the dialectics of nature, and the
role of the scientific experimenter within the total social process.
^
Would you mind elaborating on this ?
Charles
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4. For us and for itself
CB: I use thing-for-us and thing-in-itself
_
When I first received this book, I perused the various commentaries by its
various contributors other than Lukacs, without reading Lukacs' own
text. Now I've done just the opposite, reading Lukacs sans the
Yours is a relatively simple and common error that is easily corrected.
Waistline
CB: No it is not an error.
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In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a
little different: This is not intended to be a joke, it's not funny,
it's intended to get you thinking.
Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane
Clayson asked her How could God let something like
Waistline2 :
CB: The antagonism between the social nature of production and the private
nature of appropriation or property is what you are trying to get at.
Technical
production as it develops makes itself more and more social. Marx assumes
that
the overall division or socialisation of labor
Ralph Dumain :
So why did you forward this ignorant shit to this list?
^
CB: I'm thinking more working class people I run into have philosophies or
worldviews like this than like the brilliant shit. So, how do Marxist
philosophers make a connection between philosophy and _most_ people's
Ralph Dumain rdumain at igc.org
A Defence of History and Class Consciousness: Tailism and the Dialectic, by
Georg Lukács; translated by Esther Leslie, with an introduction by John
Rees and a postface by Slavoj Zizek. London; New York: Verso, 2000. 182
pp. (Lukacs' ms: pp. 45-149.)
II.
Ralph Dumain
^^^
A few remarks here. It seems you are making a play on words in altering the
meaning of the epistemological term thing-for-us to mean
utilitarian-uses-for-me/them/us. The result is a confusion of arguments.
^^^
CB: What is the confusion of arguments ?
Things-for-us in
[Marxism] Wilson: science and religion are incompatible
acpollack2 at juno.com acpollack2 at juno.com
mailto:marxism%40lists.econ.utah.edu?Subject=%5BMarxism%5D%20Wilson%3A%20sc
ience%20and%20religion%20are%20incompatibleIn-Reply-To=
Mon Nov 14 11:38:34 MST
that Hegel held that comedic logic is superior to
grandeloquent logic. Comedy is superior to Tragedy, contra the implication
of typical bourgeois education.
-Original Message-
From: Charles Brown cbrown at michiganlegal.org
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
Sent
having to acknowledge objective reality.
(5) I'm always interested in whatever has to say about comedy or aesthetics in
general.
-Original Message-
From: Charles Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Nov 17, 2005 5:11 PM
To: 'Forum for the discussion of theoretical issues raised by Karl Marx
Victor:
While Lukacs regards the universality of the dialectic as a function of
their inherency in the material world as such, Ilyenkov treats this
universality as a function of human interaction with the nature, a product
of the unity of human activity and nature in practice.
CB:
Lifestyles
Even in uncertainty, workers can manage their fears, guilt
November 22, 2005
BY MARGARITA BAUZA
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER
photo
http://cmsimg.freep.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=C4Date=20051122Category
=FEATURES01ArtNo=511220352Ref=ARMaxW=233Border=1
Rich Garbacz,
The philosophers have only INTERPRETED the world, in various ways: the point
is to CHANGE it.
***
WL: Perhaps, but I thought the point was the direction of the change.
***
CB: I'd give Marx the benefit of the doubt that he meant the point is to
change the world in the correct
The issue is not better or worse...
^
Why not ?
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M-TH: Autoworkers shutdown General Motors
Charles Brown marxism-thaxis
Wed, 01 Jul 1998 17:13:44 -0400
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M-TH: Black History Year
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M-TH: Black History Year
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M-TH: Interview with Angela Davis
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M-TH: U.S. out of Iraq
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PROTEST U.S. BOMBING OF YUGOSLAVIA
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Whither the family
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ml
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www.angeladavis.org
Recollections of Angela Davis
Angela made such an impression on Russian dissident and Nobel Laureat
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn that he went out of his way to mention her in a
speech he delivered to the AFL-CIO on July 9, 1975 in New York
UPDATED FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 25, 2005 10:52 AM NYT
MORE ON 'ANGELA DAVIS, L'ENCHAINEMENT'
Angela Davis, L'Enchainement
a k a Angela Davis, The Sequence Of Events
1977 - France - Biography/Social History/Social Issues
Type: Documentary
Rating: NR
Running
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-ice25nov25,0,2141135.st
ory?coll=la-home-headlines
THE NATION
Core Evidence That Humans Affect Climate Change
Ice drilled in Antarctica offers the fullest record of glacial cycles and
greenhouse gas levels.
By Usha Lee McFarling
Times Staff
M-TH: Longer version of paper for women's liberation
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 17:11:04 -0500
From: Charles Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To:Leninist-international@buo319b.econ.utah.edu,
[EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL
_
M-TH: dialectical materialism
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Movement GFA
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M-TH: W.E.B. Dubois
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Go!
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Jim Farmelant
As long as you're going to continue presenting us your
greatest hits from the past, how about a discussion
of Maurice Cornforth's relationship with analytical
philosophy. I recall reading the other day, that he
had been a student of Wittgenstein. Is there any
more information
I don't really subscribe to A small group of thoughtful people could
change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Margaret Mead
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/margaretme130543.html
But Rosa Parks had a demonstration of one in a coordinated campaign planned
by a
Dubois studied with pragmatist.
CB
The Science of Dr. W.E.B. Du Bois By Dr. Anthony Monteiro
The intellectual high point of DuBois' Harvard years was a
fifty-two page handwritten essay entitled The Renaissance
of Ethics: A Critical Comparison of Scholastic and Modern
Ethics, prepared for a
Ralph Dumain
There is an earlier posting of an extensive article on Du Bois' intellectual
background--you were the one who posted it, maybe? This is very useful info.
There is a lot more info on this sort of thing published, since, circa 1990,
including considerations of DuBois;
Here's an annotation by Ralph ( I think) from his
Pragmatism and Its Discontents: Annotated Selected Bibliography
http://www.autodidactproject.org/bib/pragmabib-a.html
Given Ralph's discussion of the racism of some of the progressives of the
early 20th Century, Dubois' thinking added in is
Web Results 1 - 10 of about 37,500 for Anthony )
The WEB Du Bois Virtual University
http://members.tripod.com/~DuBois/phcf.html
Anthony Monteiro, Assistant Professor of Sociology Du Bois and the
political
economy of race. PANEL 2. WEB Du Bois, His World View and Social Science
...
I'm puzzled on one count, though: I'm pretty sure
that the LP-ers--Carnap surely, and even
Neurath--would object to diamat on the basis that it
is metaphysics, thus cognitively meaningless.
They would say it was cognitively meaningless, and I
didn't mean to say otherwise, I may have gotten
March 1998
Souls of Black Folk
A 1998 Revisitation
In 1998 we commemorate the 130th anniversary of the birth of William Edward
Burghardt Du Bois and the 35th of his death. This year, too, we mark the
95th anniversary of the publication of his seminal
New Books!
http://www.pragmatism.org/pragmatism_race.jpg
Pragmatism and the Problem of Race
http://www.indiana.edu/~iupress/books/0-253-34361-5.shtml
eds. Bill Lawson and Donald Koch
Indiana UP, 2004
The Pragmatism Cybrary
The
http://www.ed.uiuc.edu/EPS/PES-Yearbook/1998/mcswine.html
The Educational Philosophy of W.E.B. DuBois
Bartley L. McSwine
Chicago State University
After being black-listed for many years, the works of W.E.B. DuBois are once
again being published, read, discussed, and written about both in
http://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/m/e.htm
Metaphysics
A branch of philosophy dating back to the time of Aristotle
http://www.marxists.org/glossary/people/a/r.htm#aristotle , referring to
the study of what is beyond the senses. By the 16th century Metaphysics
became synonymous with Ontology
In dealing with the impact of materialist dialectics in science, Haldane is
an important figure. He wrote and intro to _Dialectics of Nature_. Haldane
is one of the major British theoretical biologists, co-founder of population
genetics. I recall first hearing of Haldane in biological
http://www.marxists.org/archive/haldane/works/1930s/philosophy.htm
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The Marxist Philosophy and the Sciences
JBS Haldane
Published: Random House, 1939;
Transcribed: for marxists.org in May, 2002.
PREFACE
-clip-
The intensity of the interest taken in philosophy in the Soviet Union may be
I have to admit that I speak about 1/5 tongue in cheek on the end of philo, but
I do think that Engels is correct in the long run, and that much of those doing
philo now are going over old issues that were settled a while ago.
They may be somehow equivalent , but Engels statement is not that
Charles Brown :
I have to admit that I speak about 1/5 tongue in cheek on the end of philo, but
I do think that Engels is correct in the long run, and that much of those doing
philo now are going over old issues that were settled a while ago.
They may be somehow equivalent , but Engels
Here Haldane articulates dialectics not _a priori_ ,but _a posteriori_,
empirically, not metaphysically. He uses a quantum theory example, packets
of energy I think
CB
^^^
What are these dialectical principles? One of them is the principle of the
unity of opposites. For example, if I
JKS expressed himself rather badly for a professional philosopher, esp.
quoting Rorty, but Charles isn't making this any easier.
CB: Sez who ? :)
One big terminological point: the word 'metaphysics' has plural core
meanings, not to mention the way Engels mucked up the word by his
Jim Farmelant :
I think I made a similar point a little while back. For Engels,
metaphysics denotes theories that posit reality as understandable
in terms of eternal and unchanging being as opposed to
becoming. The logical positivists, on the other hand, used
the term to denote theories that
Volume 52, Number 20 . December 15, 2005
http://www.nybooks.com/contents/20051215
email icon http://www.nybooks.com/images/email-icon.gif Email to a friend
javascript:popUp('article-email?article_id=18570')
Letter
DARWIN PROGRESS
By Robert J. Richards
Ralph:
Remember, I said that the 'end of philosophy' had to be brought
about concretely,in every dept. of knowledge, not merely
schematically.
CB; When we read the actual quote from Engels, it is clear that far from
mucking it up, Engels said what Ralph says above long before Ralph
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