Re: [NNagain] Virtual mtgs and conferences vs. in-person ones (was) Re: FCC NOI due dec 1 on broadband speed standards

I agree that virtual meetings today are vastly inferior to physical presence, but I wasn't suggesting that all meetings be made virtual.  Rather I was suggesting that orchestrating some kind of high profile "virtual meeting", including not only engineers but also government leaders, policy

Re: [NNagain] FCC NOI due dec 1 on broadband speed standards

I am glad you are reaching out, but it may be difficult for us to do a joint filing. In particular I question the seeming assumption that more wifi devices will drive demand for more bandwidth, and extrapolating from 18 devices forward may also well be a trend that will reverse completely in

[NNagain] Virtual mtgs and conferences vs. in-person ones (was) Re: FCC NOI due dec 1 on broadband speed standards

Also a recent Nature study - audio conversations are better at creative brainstorms and ideation then audio+video (over whatever video platform of choice). Aside from the empirical findings, the proposed reason why is video has people's brains trying to make sense of a non-life sized images of

Re: [NNagain] FCC NOI due dec 1 on broadband speed standards

> And IIRC during covid, didn't the IETF do online only meetings? Yes, we did! The IETF pivoted in March 2020 to fully virtual with 701 remote attendees. That continued for 2 years until March 2022 when we started having in-person again – and since that time they have been hybrid (and will

Re: [NNagain] FCC NOI due dec 1 on broadband speed standards

Stanford did a study a number of years ago on how information is conveyed between humans. How much of the information conveyed is contained in the words that are spoken???Answer ... less than 20%. That alone explains why F2F is sooo important ... -Original Message- From:

Re: [NNagain] FCC NOI due dec 1 on broadband speed standards

It's really hard to overhear a nearby conversation that catches your interest in a zoom environment compared to what happens at the 'hallway track' when you are in-person If all you are interested in is the session contents, then video recordings (possibly supplemented by the ability to ask

Re: [NNagain] FCC NOI due dec 1 on broadband speed standards

Hi Jack, My argument is this is not a hard or software problem, but a wetware problem, hard to shake off million years of evolution. And IIRC during covid, didn't the IETF do online only meetings? I am not saying video conferencing is doomed, it came a long way in the covid years and is 'here

Re: [NNagain] FCC NOI due dec 1 on broadband speed standards

Thanks for sharing this. I agree this works for researchers. I think we're at a different state and economic returns matter too. I sent the following to our engineers in hopes we can all better understand what we're all trying to accomplish. Hi All, The attached Notice of Inquiry by the FCC

Re: [NNagain] FCC NOI due dec 1 on broadband speed standards

In the beginning days of the Arpanet, circa early 1970s, ARPA made a policy decision about use of the Arpanet.  First, Arpa Program Managers, located on the East Coast of the US, were assigned computer accounts on USC-ISIA, located on the West Coast in LA. Thus to do their work, exchanging

Re: [NNagain] FCC NOI due dec 1 on broadband speed standards

Also, don't forget to measure with working-loads too --working-load[=up|down|bidir][,n] request a concurrent working load, currently TCP stream(s), defaults to full duplex (or bidir) unless the up or down option is provided. The number of TCP streams defaults to 1 and can be changed via the n

Re: [NNagain] FCC NOI due dec 1 on broadband speed standards

It's frustrating to me that even experts here don't measure latency as a first priority. The tooling has been available for years to do this. And it's only getting better and more feature rich, e.g. bounce-back. --bounceback[=n] run a TCP bounceback or rps test with optional number writes in a

Re: [NNagain] FCC NOI due dec 1 on broadband speed standards

Hi Jack, > On Nov 14, 2023, at 13:02, Jack Haverty via Nnagain > wrote: > > If video conferencing worked well enough, they would not have to all get > together in one place and would instead hold IETF meetings online ...? [SM] Turns out that humans are social creatures, and some

Re: [NNagain] FCC NOI due dec 1 on broadband speed standards

iperf 2 supports two features relevant here - one for a live video source (isochronous) and the other for DASH like protocols (--burst-size & --burst-period.) Note: One can select the CCA to influence pacing or not on bursts. These tests are under utilized and not well known. Also, don't

Re: [NNagain] FCC NOI due dec 1 on broadband speed standards

Hi Jeremy, > On Nov 14, 2023, at 12:58, Jeremy Austin via Nnagain > wrote: > > > > On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 6:46 AM Livingood, Jason via Nnagain > wrote: > On the subject of how much bandwidth does one household need, here's a fun > stat for you. > > > > At the IETF’s 118th meeting

Re: [NNagain] FCC NOI due dec 1 on broadband speed standards

On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 6:46 AM Livingood, Jason via Nnagain < nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > On the subject of how much bandwidth does one household need, here's a fun > stat for you. > > > > At the IETF’s 118th meeting last > week (Nov 4 – 10,

Re: [NNagain] FCC NOI due dec 1 on broadband speed standards

On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 12:25 PM Vint Cerf via Nnagain wrote: > > if they had not been all together they would have been consuming tons of > video capacity doing video conference calls There were plenty of remote attendees. One feed per room = ? Videoconferencing capacity use is another

Re: [NNagain] FCC NOI due dec 1 on broadband speed standards

Hi Jason, Thank you very much for the information! Regards On 14 November 2023 11:37:26 GMT-05:00, "Livingood, Jason" wrote: >> Joking aside, how representative is this ratio of users to peak traffic for >> what you know about residential users? I am not looking for anything more >> than a

Re: [NNagain] FCC NOI due dec 1 on broadband speed standards

> Joking aside, how representative is this ratio of users to peak traffic for > what you know about residential users? I am not looking for anything more > than a very coarse replay, like same order of magnitude or not ;) Based on my experience, this is representative in so far as: - People

Re: [NNagain] FCC NOI due dec 1 on broadband speed standards

Hi Dave, On 14 November 2023 11:06:54 GMT-05:00, Dave Taht via Nnagain wrote: >As I noted also on the twitter thread for this, were I there, and >dishonest, (particularly were gobs of money on the table) I could easily >have permuted the bandwidth on both tests hugely upwards from a single

Re: [NNagain] [EXTERNAL] Re: FCC NOI due dec 1 on broadband speed standards

> As I noted also on the twitter thread for this, were I there, and dishonest, > (particularly were gobs of money on the table) I could easily have permuted > the bandwidth on both tests hugely upwards from a single laptop by running > continuous speedtests. But speedtests are not what we do

Re: [NNagain] FCC NOI due dec 1 on broadband speed standards

I guess I now am prepared to upgrade my home network into the ~1Gbps class, before inviting 1000 engineers over ;) Joking aside, how representative is this ratio of users to peak traffic for what you know about residential users? I am not looking for anything more than a very coarse replay,

Re: [NNagain] The rise and fall of the 90's telecom bubble

There were obviously many facets, but I think one of the turns was due to DWDM. You no longer needed a pair for every circuit. That then contributed to the glut of strands. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com

Re: [NNagain] The rise and fall of the 90's telecom bubble

On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 7:06 AM Sebastian Moeller via Nnagain wrote: > All good explanations for what I see, yet this is happening in the > capital... (but truth be told, when I bought this phone I did not pay much > attention to which bands it was suited for, it is not impossible that

Re: [NNagain] The rise and fall of the 90's telecom bubble

Hi Richard, > On Nov 13, 2023, at 16:08, Dick Roy via Nnagain > wrote: > > > > -Original Message- > From: Nnagain [mailto:nnagain-boun...@lists.bufferbloat.net] On Behalf Of > Sebastian Moeller via Nnagain > Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 6:15 AM > To: Network Neutrality is

[NNagain] The Internet Society Internet Resilience Index (IRI)

I have no idea if anyone in the fcc or bead programs are aware of or using IRI? https://blog.apnic.net/2023/11/14/dont-put-all-your-internet-infrastructure-in-one-basket/ -- :( My old R campus is up for sale: https://tinyurl.com/yurtlab Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos