Re: OT: Mail Problem

I agree with your assessment, John. The remote server which is using the RBL blacklist appears to be cloud6.emwd.com, run by Emerging Markets Web Design LLC., and I assume that the pdml list handling is hosted there. Those RBL things are a very stupid blunt instrument. Better anti-spam systems

Re: New standard lens on the horizon

On 2/23/2017 2:10 PM, steve harley wrote: On 2017-02-22 17:04 , Bill wrote: I really don't want to use an A15/3.5 as a short tele. i really like how short tele macros work on µ4/3 — Pentax-M 100/4 macro handles really well with focus highlighting, increased effective focal length and

Re: K-1 Enablement

Paul Stenquist wrote: I think I want the 100/2.8 as well. Good reviews. The tamron 90/2.8 is a very nice lens, but I wanted WR because I do a lot of my macro work outside, and it is often a bit damp outside. The Pentax 100 does seem to be just a dab more fairy dust than the Tamron 90, and

Re: K-1 Enablement

Yep. I bought one at B Found a slightly used one on eBay for $420, but decided it wasn't worth the risk, and opted to pay $539 at B No shipping, no sales tax collected. Paul via phone > On Feb 23, 2017, at 7:56 PM, Larry Colen wrote: > > > > Paul Stenquist wrote: >> I

Re: Pentax K mount - to - EOS adapter orientation.

On 2/23/2017 3:13 PM, Steve Cottrell wrote: Okay, here's an interesting question. Pentax lens - to - other makes of camera adaptor rings. They're out there. Cheapies off eekBay and Amazon, and one or two decent makes. Here's the problem. My son uses the A*85/1.4 on his Canon C100 video camera

Re: K-1 Enablement

That should read Series 1 90/2.5 macro Paul via phone > On Feb 23, 2017, at 8:13 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: > > I really liked my Vivitar Series 2 90/2.5 macro. It was a heavy metal lens, > the first version of this iconic lens. Wonderful bokeh and very sharp. Still >

Re: PESO - Power

Alan, in the bottom left hand corner of the photo there is a power plant... think irony ann On 2/23/2017 1:17 PM, Alan C wrote: 've read what others had to say but I still don't understand your photo. Alan C -Original Message- From: Marco Alpert Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017

PESO 2017 - 020 - GDG

Sick with a cold most of the week. I felt well enough to get lunch at the local cafe. The splash of color warmed me. https://flic.kr/p/SkAomC enjoy! G — The trouble with being punctual is that nobody's there to appreciate it. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net

Re: PESO - Power

Me ether, Alan! J Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 23, 2017, at 10:17 AM, Alan C wrote: > > 've read what others had to say but I still don't understand your photo. > > Alan C > > -Original Message- From: Marco Alpert > Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 6:46 AM > To:

Re: K-1 Enablement

Bill, what macro lens do you use? I was happy with my 90/2.5 Vivitar for many years, but I think it was stolen by a painter who worked here last year. I need a new macro. Paul via phone > On Feb 23, 2017, at 6:33 PM, Bill wrote: > >> On 2/23/2017 12:48 PM, Mark C

Re: PESO - Power

And it's an interesting composition. A fine photo, IMO. Paul via phone > On Feb 23, 2017, at 8:35 PM, ann sanfedele wrote: > > Alan, in the bottom left hand corner of the photo there is a power plant... > think irony > > ann > >> On 2/23/2017 1:17 PM, Alan C wrote: >> 've

OT: Mail Problem

I got a second bounce message, and I want to be sure I understand what's going on. The message reads: SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:: host pdml.net [192.151.138.19]: 550-"JunkMail rejected - elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net 550-[209.86.89.63]:41905 is in

Re: New standard lens on the horizon

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017, at 16:37, Bill wrote: > On 2/23/2017 2:10 PM, steve harley wrote: > > On 2017-02-22 17:04 , Bill wrote: > > > >> I really don't want to use an A15/3.5 as a short tele. > > > > i really like how short tele macros work on µ4/3 — Pentax-M > > 100/4 macro > > handles really

Re: PESO - Power

I like what you did here compositionally and what I perceive as the point you are making but have to say I'm also a bit bothered by the vignetting on the top corners ... ann On 2/23/2017 2:55 PM, Marco Alpert wrote: On Feb 23, 2017, at 11:52 AM, Larry Colen wrote: Gonz

Re: PDML 2017 Book Upload is Live!

Who doesn't, Jan... Well done on submitting. Jostein Den 6. februar 2017 13.02.31 CET, skrev Jan van Wijk : > >On Sat, 31 Dec 2016 17:17:03 -0500 Mark Roberts wrote: >> >>Send us your photos for the 2017 Book >>http://www.robertstech.com/pdmlbook/upload.php > >OK, finally got

Re: PDML 2017 Book Upload is Live!

IMHO, one strong point for the books is the diversity. Harnessed, but only loosely so. Having seen the stuff you post to Facebook I'd say you could be spoilt for choice. :-) Jostein Den 22. februar 2017 11.04.21 CET, skrev Rob Studdert : >I actually managed to put

Re: Peso fixer uppers

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Gonz wrote: > I would love to see these taken during the evening or morning and in > B! Also, maybe with a more dramatic sky, then I think you would > really have something! Thanks all. I plan on returning again its only 1.25 hours from

Re: PESO - Power

> On Feb 23, 2017, at 11:52 AM, Larry Colen wrote: > > Gonz wrote: >> There seems to be some kind of OOF pattern like smudges on the front >> glass that really distracts me, otherwise an interesting composition. > > Agreed, I like the composition, but don't like the weird

Re: New standard lens on the horizon

On 2017-02-22 17:04 , Bill wrote: > I really don't want to use an A15/3.5 as a short tele. i really like how short tele macros work on µ4/3 — Pentax-M 100/4 macro handles really well with focus highlighting, increased effective focal length and depth of field just ordered a K-mount Panagor

Re: PESO - Power

Hi Alan, No problem. - Marco > On Feb 23, 2017, at 10:17 AM, Alan C wrote: > > 've read what others had to say but I still don't understand your photo. > > Alan C > > -Original Message- From: Marco Alpert > Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 6:46 AM > To:

Re: Wazzup with the PDML annual?

Well done on sending one! Jostein Den 10. februar 2017 11.50.02 CET, skrev Peter McIntosh : >Hmmm... didn't use my K5 that much last year: only found 1 worth >submitting, and I won't be the least bit surprised if it doesn't make >it. > >Ciao, > >Pete Mac in Melbourne

Re: OT -- Need to identify this font.

that font is a real bastard; it has letter forms from the stereotypical Bauhaus typeface, but stretched lower case and high ascenders from some of the more exaggerated display fonts; i can't find any font with that weird lowercase g, nor any with both the Herbert Bayer symmetrical lower case y

Re: OT -- Need to identify this font.

The height difference between upper and lower case letters in exaggerated in PJ's font. The letters I find most distinctive are the upper case 'C' and the lower case 'g' and 'y'. Bauhaus has a similar 'y' with a centered vertical descender. The lower case 'g' may be the key, since I haven't

Re: K-1 Enablement

Awesome Mark. I only beat you by a few days. I love it so far. The flexibility and configurability is overwhelming. I've never had aperture-bracketing before (unless I never read my previous manuals thoroughly!), which sounds interesting. The AF and image quality so far exceeds my

Re: PESO - Power

Gonz wrote: There seems to be some kind of OOF pattern like smudges on the front glass that really distracts me, otherwise an interesting composition. Agreed, I like the composition, but don't like the weird smudginess and excessive vignetting. Was that also shot from Seacliff? On

Pentax K mount - to - EOS adapter orientation.

Okay, here's an interesting question. Pentax lens - to - other makes of camera adaptor rings. They're out there. Cheapies off eekBay and Amazon, and one or two decent makes. Here's the problem. My son uses the A*85/1.4 on his Canon C100 video camera a lot. He loves the creamy bokeh and minimal

Re: Bird ID help, Western Sandpiper?

No idea about the species, but half expected the photos to be made at the gates of dawn. Jostein Den 23. februar 2017 03.34.07 CET, skrev Larry Colen : >Weird > >https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157677089986804 > >Duh, for some reason when I did a cut and paste, I

Re: [p/g]eso Seacliff Beach

Alan C wrote: A couple of definitive shots of the "wreck" there. And the sandpipers en masse on the shore & in the air - like an army of frenzied vultures. Could even be considered abstracts. Thanks Alan, and also Ken for the feedback. I tried doing a high contrast version of it going for

Re: K-1 Enablement

Looking forward to getting my hands on it tomorrow. I also want to test the Tokina ATX 400 f5.6. Its proven to be a good performer on APS-C bodies, we'll see WRT full frame. On 2/22/2017 4:51 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: Congratulations. I love that camera. I think Len has been using his with

Re: PESO - Power

O.K. I had seen that and did some internet research but could find nothing about offshore (nuclear?) power plants, working or abandoned, near Seacliff beach. Alan C -Original Message- From: ann sanfedele Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 3:35 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject:

Re: OT - San Jose flood

It was much closer to Nicole and John's houses which are walking distance to coyote creek. Their neighborhoods didn't get swamped though. On February 23, 2017 8:35:19 PM PST, Igor PDML-StR wrote: > > >I've discovered today the news about the flood in San Jose (we just

PESO: Morning at Lake Wanaka

The light wasn't really in my favour but I took the photo anyway. http://gallery.multi.net.nz/photo/1038/#peso I'll just mention that you'd need to show up with about NZ$1M to buy a house in Wanaka. Want to live on the lake shore? A small lakeside apartment is more than double that. Cheers,

Re: Pentax K mount - to - EOS adapter orientation.

On 23/2/17, John, discombobulated, unleashed: >A local machine shop might be able to run up a one-off. Good point. Actually that's what I did 14 years ago. I just need longer screws to make it work. Any ideas where I would find 100% longer screws to fit the standard A*85/1.4 rear mount? --

Re: New standard lens on the horizon

On 2/23/2017 7:53 PM, steve harley wrote: On Thu, Feb 23, 2017, at 16:37, Bill wrote: On 2/23/2017 2:10 PM, steve harley wrote: On 2017-02-22 17:04 , Bill wrote: I really don't want to use an A15/3.5 as a short tele. i really like how short tele macros work on µ4/3 — Pentax-M

OT - San Jose flood

I've discovered today the news about the flood in San Jose (we just came back late last night from a trip to SLC). The scale is impressive: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-23/dramatic-drone-footage-shows-extent-san-jose-floods https://goo.gl/NdLjkb Godfrey, I remember your photo

Re: PESO - Power

On February 23, 2017 8:44:01 PM PST, Alan C wrote: >O.K. I had seen that and did some internet research but could find >nothing >about offshore (nuclear?) power plants, working or abandoned, near >Seacliff >beach. It's Moss Landing, halfway between Santa Cruz and Monterey,

Re: PESO: Morning at Lake Wanaka

A fine image, Dave. Doesn't the Gov't provide free housing for the poor? (Like the RDP houses in SA). Plenty of unused space there & they wouldn't have water problems. They could fish to survive. Alan C -Original Message- From: David Mann Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 7:34 AM To:

Re: Pentax spotted

On 23/2/17, Larry Colen, discombobulated, unleashed: >Most of my jokes are for the humor impaired. I'd say all. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__Broadcast, Corporate, || (O) |Web Video Production -- _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List

Re: Bird ID help, Western Sandpiper?

John wrote: Not weird at all. The first URL has "phot..." instead of "photos". That was obvious, what's weird is how that happened, I might have clipped it out of the facebook link. It's also annoying that they shortened it by making it one character longer than the unshortened version,

Re: New standard lens on the horizon

> On Feb 22, 2017, at 12:36 PM, Mark Roberts wrote: > > John wrote: > >> Or else Google translate just has a dirty mind. >> >> What I need explained is why new lenses are so much longer than the old >> ones of the same focal length? > > Every lens design is the

Re: Pentax spotted

On 2/23/2017 2:56 PM, Steve Cottrell wrote: On 23/2/17, Larry Colen, discombobulated, unleashed: Most of my jokes are for the humor impaired. I'd say all. Be nice! In truth, Larry's jokes are NOT for the humor impaired, nor for the slow of wit. -- Science - Questions we may never find

D FA★ 85mm F1.4

It looks like Ricoh is serious. Now they are planning a D FA★ 85mm F1.4. Fun times. https://www.pentaxforums.com/articles/cpplus-2017/d-fa-85mm-f14-on-the-horizon.html bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the

Re: Pentax K mount - to - EOS adapter orientation.

Shim stock. Available at good auto parts stores here in sizes from .001-inch to at least .005-inch. Cut to fit the lens flange until you've backed it up 10 hours to the 12 o'clock position. Paul via phone > On Feb 23, 2017, at 3:13 PM, Steve Cottrell wrote: > > Okay,

Re: K-1 Enablement

On 2/23/2017 12:48 PM, Mark C wrote: I've been doing some macros lately using continuous lighting and am hoping that doing them in Pixel Shift mode would make a difference, though the level of detail is already pretty good. I have to say that for macros some of the benefits of a full frame

Re: K-1 Enablement

I think I want the 100/2.8 as well. Good reviews. Paul via phone > On Feb 23, 2017, at 7:16 PM, Larry Colen wrote: > > > > Paul Stenquist wrote: >> Bill, what macro lens do you use? I was happy with my 90/2.5 Vivitar for >> many years, but I think it was stolen by a

Re: K-1 Enablement

Mark, good choice. I got mine with the 28-105 a week ago and am still very much in the learning curve. I was a bit worried about the size and weight of the K-1 when walking around, but so far this is acceptable. Now I'm trying my old prime lenses, but the 28-205 is also fine. Henk Op

Re: PDML 2017 Book Upload is Live!

On 2/23/2017 4:21 PM, Larry Colen wrote: Jostein Øksne wrote: IMHO, one strong point for the books is the diversity. Harnessed, but only loosely so. Having seen the stuff you post to Facebook I'd say you could be spoilt for choice. :-) Jostein I try to submit a range of photos, but it turns

Re: K-1 Enablement

Paul Stenquist wrote: Bill, what macro lens do you use? I was happy with my 90/2.5 Vivitar for many years, but I think it was stolen by a painter who worked here last year. I need a new macro. I've got a Tamron 90/2.8 272E that I need to put up for sale. I found a too good to resist offer

Re: PDML 2017 Book Upload is Live!

Jostein Øksne wrote: IMHO, one strong point for the books is the diversity. Harnessed, but only loosely so. Having seen the stuff you post to Facebook I'd say you could be spoilt for choice. :-) Jostein I try to submit a range of photos, but it turns out that all of the ones I submitted

Re: K-1 Enablement

I really liked my Vivitar Series 2 90/2.5 macro. It was a heavy metal lens, the first version of this iconic lens. Wonderful bokeh and very sharp. Still bummed that it's gone. Paul via phone > On Feb 23, 2017, at 8:07 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: > > Yep. I bought one at B

Re: PESO - Power

An interesting composition. I like it. Paul via phone > On Feb 23, 2017, at 5:04 AM, Bulent Celasun wrote: > > How beautifully depressing! > A rule-demolisher, as well. > > Bulent > - >

Re: OT -- Need to identify this font.

Thanks for the suggestions but I've already been there. I think both sites use identical engines with a different front end the results are so similar. The big problem with them is they only try to match to commercial fonts. They probably get a cut in sales which is how they keep going. I

Re: OT -- Need to identify this font.

A couple of the letters are similar but almost all have significant differences, and none of the Bauhaus derivatives I was able to find were even close. As an interesting side note. The only font with the name Sublime now searchable on the web was designed in 1997 and is based on a font that

RE: Enablement

Larry Colen wrote: Just after I posted this reply I ran across this review: http://www.mycameratravels.com/pentax-kp-hands-on-experience-review/ Thanks Larry, I'd not seen that review. More from me on this, hopefully around the start of March. Malcolm --

Re: PESO - Power

How beautifully depressing! A rule-demolisher, as well. Bulent - http://patoloji.gen.tr http://celasun.wordpress.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/bc_the_path/ http://photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=2226822

Re: [p/g]eso Seacliff Beach

Some very nice bird shots here. Paul via phone > On Feb 23, 2017, at 6:31 AM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: > > Nice bird captures, especially the last one! > > Dan Matyola > http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola > >> On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 2:41 AM, Larry Colen

Re: Enablement

Alright in the first two paragraphs I already have issues with this review. First there are the incorrect terms, the reviewer confused mechanical with manual (as in "manual shutter"), then there's the size issue. The reviewer talks about it's compact size. Well go to Camera size and

Peso fixer uppers

Had a holiday this past Monday so went for a drive. Found these old building. BTW the new look photo dot net has caught up to me. Not a real fan of the look so far. https://www.photo.net/photo/18356352/front-fix https://www.photo.net/photo/18356351/front-fix

Re: PESO: Orchid

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 12:30 AM, P. J. Alling wrote: > If I'd actually taken notes when I took that photo it might help, but I > was just making pictures of the pretty flowers. Same here! Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola -- PDML

Re: Enablement

That should read "the one for the K-3 will not fit." Oh well I get excited, but not about the new camera. On 2/23/2017 11:01 AM, P. J. Alling wrote: Alright in the first two paragraphs I already have issues with this review. First there are the incorrect terms, the reviewer confused

RE: Enablement KP

Following up my earlier reply, they are obviously already ready to go, as I've just received a parcel tracking number! Malcolm Larry Colen wrote: Just after I posted this reply I ran across this review: http://www.mycameratravels.com/pentax-kp-hands-on-experience-review/

Re: OT -- Need to identify this font.

It appears to be a Bauhaus derivative font if that's of any use. On 23 February 2017 at 14:15, Mark Roberts wrote: > Eric Featherstone wrote: > >>On 22 February 2017 at 21:14, P. J. Alling wrote: >>> https://pdml.updog.co/textsample/ >>>

Re: [p/g]eso Seacliff Beach

Nice bird captures, especially the last one! Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 2:41 AM, Larry Colen wrote: > As I mentioned earlier, Marco inspired me to take a field trip to Seacliff > today to get some photos of the Palo

Re: K-1 Enablement

I find that in comparison to the K-3, which is an excellent camera, the K-1 has better high ISO performance, better autofocus, particularly in low light, and all those extra pixels to play with when I want to crop a horizontal as a vertical. My only complaint is in regard to the overly tight

Re: PESO - Power

There seems to be some kind of OOF pattern like smudges on the front glass that really distracts me, otherwise an interesting composition. On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 10:46 PM, Marco Alpert wrote: > http://www.alpert.com/marco/photo17/peso2.html > > Comments, as always, welcomed. >

Re: Peso fixer uppers

I would love to see these taken during the evening or morning and in B! Also, maybe with a more dramatic sky, then I think you would really have something! On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 10:13 AM, David J Brooks wrote: > Had a holiday this past Monday so went for a drive. Found

Re: Peso fixer uppers

Enjoyed these, David, they're kind of my thing. Like the sepia as well. The last one, not so much. J - Original Message - From: "David J Brooks" To: "Pentax Discuss" Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 8:13:09 AM Subject: Peso fixer uppers Had a

RE: Peso fixer uppers

David J Brooks wrote: Had a holiday this past Monday so went for a drive. Found these old building. BTW the new look photo dot net has caught up to me. Not a real fan of the look so far. https://www.photo.net/photo/18356352/front-fix https://www.photo.net/photo/18356351/front-fix

Re: [p/g]eso Seacliff Beach

Thanks Paul, Dan and everyone who looked. Paul Stenquist wrote: Some very nice bird shots here. Paul via phone On Feb 23, 2017, at 6:31 AM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: Nice bird captures, especially the last one! Dan Matyola

Re: PESO - Power

Thanks, Bulent and Paul. Much appreciated. - Marco > On Feb 23, 2017, at 2:04 AM, Bulent Celasun wrote: > > How beautifully depressing! > A rule-demolisher, as well. > > Bulent > - >

Re: Peso fixer uppers

Great subjects Dave. It would be worthwhile if you could return when less harsh light is available. If you can approach the structures, they're opportunities for many intimate structure details. Go for it! -Original Message- >From: David J Brooks >Subject: Peso

Re: [p/g]eso Seacliff Beach

A couple of definitive shots of the "wreck" there. And the sandpipers en masse on the shore & in the air - like an army of frenzied vultures. Could even be considered abstracts. Alan C -Original Message- From: Larry Colen Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:41 AM To: Pentax-Discuss

Re: Peso fixer uppers

Offers many photographic opportunities. Would make grand bonfire too. Alan C -Original Message- From: David J Brooks Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 6:13 PM To: Pentax Discuss Subject: Peso fixer uppers Had a holiday this past Monday so went for a drive. Found these old building.

Re: PESO - Power

've read what others had to say but I still don't understand your photo. Alan C -Original Message- From: Marco Alpert Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 6:46 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: PESO - Power http://www.alpert.com/marco/photo17/peso2.html Comments, as always,

Re: K-1 Enablement

I've been doing some macros lately using continuous lighting and am hoping that doing them in Pixel Shift mode would make a difference, though the level of detail is already pretty good. I have to say that for macros some of the benefits of a full frame sensor are offset by the need to achieve

Re: Bird ID help, Western Sandpiper?

Not weird at all. The first URL has "phot..." instead of "photos". On 2/22/2017 9:34 PM, Larry Colen wrote: Weird https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157677089986804 Duh, for some reason when I did a cut and paste, I got the ellipsis where they replaces two letters with three dots.

Re: [p/g]eso Seacliff Beach

Larry, I like some of the single and multiple Sandpiper shots, most of the ship shots - not so much. Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: "Larry Colen" Subject: [p/g]eso Seacliff Beach As I mentioned earlier,

Re: K-1 Enablement

Thanks Mark. Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: "Mark C" Subject: Re: K-1 Enablement I've been doing some macros lately using continuous lighting and am hoping that doing them in Pixel Shift mode would

Re: Pentax spotted

P. J. Alling wrote: Don't you know, just stuff the film into the NAS and viola* the images are in right there... *that's a joke for the humor impaired, (voilà). Most of my jokes are for the humor impaired. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com (postbox on min4est) http://red4est.com/lrc --

Re: PDML 2017 Book Upload is Live!

Rob Studdert wrote: I actually managed to put three in this year. Strangely the more images I take the harder it is to find some thing that might fit the book and I'm shooting around 100k images P/A these days. Wow, I really need to step up my game. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com (postbox

Re: New standard lens on the horizon

Mark Roberts wrote: Bill wrote: I suspect it's not much more problem to teach Lightroom to apply a correction on import, but I haven't bothered to try yet. I find myself *adding* vignetting in post much more often than correcting for it. Interesting, I've come to hate vignetting the way

Re: Enablement

Malcolm Smith wrote: In the hope this one finally gets through, I've seen few posts about the KP. The project I'm trying to work on involves me going out at dusk in low light (an ongoing urban fox project), and whilst I don't expect any of the really high ISO images to be useful, I was

Re: Enablement

Just after I posted this reply I ran across this review: http://www.mycameratravels.com/pentax-kp-hands-on-experience-review/ Larry Colen wrote: Malcolm Smith wrote: In the hope this one finally gets through, I've seen few posts about the KP. The project I'm trying to work on involves