Re: Fwd: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[Daniel J. Matyola]

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:24 PM, Toralf Lund  wrote:

> OMG. That should read, "more *notorious*". Spell-checker didn't agree,


Spellcheck knows what is best for you>

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
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Re: Fwd: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[Toralf Lund]

On 23/06/17 20:20, Toralf Lund wrote:

On 23/06/17 20:01, John Francis wrote:

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 03:00:18PM +0200, Toralf Lund wrote:

  On 22/06/17 22:40, P. J. Alling wrote:

It looks like a developer on the Thunderbird team needs to have his 
left
arm ripped off, so that I can beat him about the head and shoulders 
with

it.


Note that the part of the message I quote above only indicates one 
level of
quoting - Toralf's original post simply quoted P.J.'s post inline, 
with no

way to differentiate it from any other non-quoted part of the message.

I've seen the same thing on one of Ann's posts, too.

Is this yet another example of a mail client ignoring mandated 
behaviour?
I think it isn't in this case, but that things get mixed up by mistake 
if you hit delete at the wrong spot, or something. I didn't really 
notice it happening in that message...


M$ Outlook is more notion's when it comes to quoting behaviour, or the 
lack thereof, isn't it?
OMG. That should read, "more *notorious*". Spell-checker didn't agree, 
though.


- T



- Toralf











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Re: Fwd: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[Toralf Lund]

On 23/06/17 20:01, John Francis wrote:

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 03:00:18PM +0200, Toralf Lund wrote:

  On 22/06/17 22:40, P. J. Alling wrote:

It looks like a developer on the Thunderbird team needs to have his left
arm ripped off, so that I can beat him about the head and shoulders with
it.


Note that the part of the message I quote above only indicates one level of
quoting - Toralf's original post simply quoted P.J.'s post inline, with no
way to differentiate it from any other non-quoted part of the message.

I've seen the same thing on one of Ann's posts, too.

Is this yet another example of a mail client ignoring mandated behaviour?
I think it isn't in this case, but that things get mixed up by mistake 
if you hit delete at the wrong spot, or something. I didn't really 
notice it happening in that message...


M$ Outlook is more notion's when it comes to quoting behaviour, or the 
lack thereof, isn't it?


- Toralf









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Re: Fwd: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[John Francis]

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 03:00:18PM +0200, Toralf Lund wrote:
>  On 22/06/17 22:40, P. J. Alling wrote:
> 
> It looks like a developer on the Thunderbird team needs to have his left
> arm ripped off, so that I can beat him about the head and shoulders with
> it.


Note that the part of the message I quote above only indicates one level of
quoting - Toralf's original post simply quoted P.J.'s post inline, with no
way to differentiate it from any other non-quoted part of the message.

I've seen the same thing on one of Ann's posts, too.

Is this yet another example of a mail client ignoring mandated behaviour?


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Re: Fwd: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[Zos Xavius]

I heard some good news today. I'm not in a position to offer details
but we should in the next few months have a clear indication that
Ricoh is not giving up the ship anytime soon

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Re: Fwd: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[Toralf Lund]

 On 22/06/17 22:40, P. J. Alling wrote:

It looks like a developer on the Thunderbird team needs to have his left
arm ripped off, so that I can beat him about the head and shoulders with
it.

Changing mandated mandated behavior of a system. on a whim to "fix"
behavior that no one really complained about, then deciding come hell or
high water that he's right while users scream at him is worse than a sin.

No truly successful organization that I've ever worked for would have let
me get away with that, even if I were right, and this a$$hat is so
obviously wrong, he seems to be wearing his a$$ as  a balaclava.

I know that using the word ass won't get this post banned from the PDML but
I think spelling it with dollar sighs is amusing.

:-)

Nicely summarised, anyhow.

I'll try to keep away from that bug report from now on, as accessing it
can't possibly be good for my blood pressure.

- Toralf



On 6/22/2017 2:53 AM, Toralf Lund wrote:

  On 21/06/17 18:00, P. J. Alling wrote:

Dammit, there was a recent update to Firefox, and the didn't fix the reply
button.   A!.

It seems like one of the Mozilla developers has decided to be one way about
this. Perhaps it would help if more people complained. See

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1309486


- Toralf




 Forwarded Message 
Subject:     Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:51:08 -0400
From: P. J. Alling <webstertwenty...@gmail.com>
<webstertwenty...@gmail.com>
<webstertwenty...@gmail.com> <webstertwenty...@gmail.com>
To: Zos Xavius <zosxav...@gmail.com> <zosxav...@gmail.com>
<zosxav...@gmail.com> <zosxav...@gmail.com>



The universe is dmed.  Ultimate heat death in only 20 billion
years or so.*

*Your mileage may vary depending on the actual variation of the theory
you ascribe to.


On 6/20/2017 10:46 PM, Zos Xavius wrote:

Pentax is domed!
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Re: Fwd: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[P. J. Alling]

Thanks Toralf, that suggestion makes the change almost palatable.   
You're right.  The actual behavior is still wrong, but until the current 
lead on the bug fix either is fired, quits, retires or or dies, I expect 
that the change in reply to behavior will stay.   Because some people 
are incapable of admitting they are ever wrong.



On 6/22/2017 12:44 PM, Toralf Lund wrote:

On 21/06/17 19:53, Igor PDML-StR wrote:


P.J.,

It would be REALLY strange if the update to Firefox would fix 
whatever problems you are having with Thunderbird...


;-)

On a serious note, speaking of that "reply"-button problem, - have 
you (and everybody else on the list who suffers from it) submitted a 
bug report on it?

If not, - you should.
As I sort of said elsewhere, I did. Unfortunately, the report got 
marked as a duplicate of another issue (which I didn't notice when 
searching), and that issue is marked as WONTFIX. But I'm still shouting.



1. They might not be aware of it.
2. They might not think that change was a problem...
Part of the issue seems to be that one of the developers behind the 
change has decided that it's not a problem, no matter how many people 
say that it is in fact a problem.


3. The priority of the problem fixing is decided by the overall 
loudness (hence the number) of complaints.

... but even some loudness might still help, perhaps...

Meanwhile, I found that the situation gets a little better if you

1. Right-click on the header in the message view and select 
"Customise..."

2. Drag the button marked "Reply" from the main window to the
   "Customise Toolbar" window (so as to remove it from the view.)
3. Press Done in the window I just mentioned.

The message view will then only have a "Smart reply" button which 
alternates between "Reply", "Reply All" and "Reply List" depending on 
the context. (Note that the behaviour changes compared to when you 
also have the "normal" "Reply" button, because then the "Smart Reply" 
then hides itself in some cases.)


Actually, the situation might be acceptable if you could also add 
"Smart reply" to the main tool-bar and have a keyboard short-cut for 
it. There are bug reports related to this, too, but they're not 
exactly new, so there is a question of whether the issues will ever be 
addressed.


I still think the "Reply" implementation is wrong in principle, though...

- Toralf



Igor


P. J. Alling Wed, 21 Jun 2017 09:02:46 -0700 wrote:

Dammit, there was a recent update to Firefox, and the didn't fix the 
reply button. A!.




 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh
Date:   Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:51:08 -0400
From:   P. J. Alling <webstertwenty...@gmail.com>
To: Zos Xavius <zosxav...@gmail.com>



The universe is dmed.  Ultimate heat death in only 20 billion
years or so.*

*Your mileage may vary depending on the actual variation of the theory
you ascribe to.


On 6/20/2017 10:46 PM, Zos Xavius wrote:

Pentax is domed!








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Re: Fwd: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[P. J. Alling]

It looks like a developer on the Thunderbird team needs to have his left 
arm ripped off, so that I can beat him about the head and shoulders with 
it.


Changing mandated mandated behavior of a system. on a whim to "fix" 
behavior that no one really complained about, then deciding come hell or 
high water that he's right while users scream at him is worse than a sin.


No truly successful organization that I've ever worked for would have 
let me get away with that, even if I were right, and this a$$hat is so 
obviously wrong, he seems to be wearing his a$$ as  a balaclava.


I know that using the word ass won't get this post banned from the PDML 
but I think spelling it with dollar sighs is amusing.



On 6/22/2017 2:53 AM, Toralf Lund wrote:

  On 21/06/17 18:00, P. J. Alling wrote:

Dammit, there was a recent update to Firefox, and the didn't fix the reply
button.   A!.

It seems like one of the Mozilla developers has decided to be one way about
this. Perhaps it would help if more people complained. See

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1309486


- Toralf




 Forwarded Message 
Subject:     Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:51:08 -0400
From: P. J. Alling <webstertwenty...@gmail.com>
<webstertwenty...@gmail.com>
To: Zos Xavius <zosxav...@gmail.com> <zosxav...@gmail.com>



The universe is dmed.  Ultimate heat death in only 20 billion
years or so.*

*Your mileage may vary depending on the actual variation of the theory
you ascribe to.


On 6/20/2017 10:46 PM, Zos Xavius wrote:

Pentax is domed!



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Re: Fwd: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[Toralf Lund]

On 21/06/17 19:53, Igor PDML-StR wrote:


P.J.,

It would be REALLY strange if the update to Firefox would fix whatever 
problems you are having with Thunderbird...


;-)

On a serious note, speaking of that "reply"-button problem, - have you 
(and everybody else on the list who suffers from it) submitted a bug 
report on it?

If not, - you should.
As I sort of said elsewhere, I did. Unfortunately, the report got marked 
as a duplicate of another issue (which I didn't notice when searching), 
and that issue is marked as WONTFIX. But I'm still shouting.



1. They might not be aware of it.
2. They might not think that change was a problem...
Part of the issue seems to be that one of the developers behind the 
change has decided that it's not a problem, no matter how many people 
say that it is in fact a problem.


3. The priority of the problem fixing is decided by the overall 
loudness (hence the number) of complaints.

... but even some loudness might still help, perhaps...

Meanwhile, I found that the situation gets a little better if you

1. Right-click on the header in the message view and select "Customise..."
2. Drag the button marked "Reply" from the main window to the
   "Customise Toolbar" window (so as to remove it from the view.)
3. Press Done in the window I just mentioned.

The message view will then only have a "Smart reply" button which 
alternates between "Reply", "Reply All" and "Reply List" depending on 
the context. (Note that the behaviour changes compared to when you also 
have the "normal" "Reply" button, because then the "Smart Reply" then 
hides itself in some cases.)


Actually, the situation might be acceptable if you could also add "Smart 
reply" to the main tool-bar and have a keyboard short-cut for it. There 
are bug reports related to this, too, but they're not exactly new, so 
there is a question of whether the issues will ever be addressed.


I still think the "Reply" implementation is wrong in principle, though...

- Toralf



Igor


P. J. Alling Wed, 21 Jun 2017 09:02:46 -0700 wrote:

Dammit, there was a recent update to Firefox, and the didn't fix the 
reply button. A!.




 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh
Date:   Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:51:08 -0400
From:   P. J. Alling <webstertwenty...@gmail.com>
To: Zos Xavius <zosxav...@gmail.com>



The universe is dmed.  Ultimate heat death in only 20 billion
years or so.*

*Your mileage may vary depending on the actual variation of the theory
you ascribe to.


On 6/20/2017 10:46 PM, Zos Xavius wrote:

Pentax is domed!





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the directions.

Re: Fwd: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[Darren Addy]

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 6:10 PM, John  wrote:
> They were once both components of Netscape Navigator, but
> that was a few years back.

that was a few decades back.

There FTFY. (Time flies when you are having fun!)
:)
-- 
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― Yann Arthus-Bertrand, Earth from Above

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Re: Fwd: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[Toralf Lund]

 On 21/06/17 18:00, P. J. Alling wrote:

Dammit, there was a recent update to Firefox, and the didn't fix the reply
button.   A!.

It seems like one of the Mozilla developers has decided to be one way about
this. Perhaps it would help if more people complained. See

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1309486


- Toralf




 Forwarded Message 
Subject: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:51:08 -0400
From: P. J. Alling <webstertwenty...@gmail.com>
<webstertwenty...@gmail.com>
To: Zos Xavius <zosxav...@gmail.com> <zosxav...@gmail.com>



The universe is dmed.  Ultimate heat death in only 20 billion
years or so.*

*Your mileage may vary depending on the actual variation of the theory
you ascribe to.


On 6/20/2017 10:46 PM, Zos Xavius wrote:

Pentax is domed!
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Re: Fwd: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[John]

They were once both components of Netscape Navigator, but
that was a few years back.

On 6/21/2017 15:13, P. J. Alling wrote:

Firefox Thunderbird, all the same, amiright?

I checked the Thunderbird fora and it seems they're aware of the issue.

The problem with submitting a bug report to Bugzilla, is that I'd have
to register.  I try to have as little online presence with "real" data
as possible.  Bad enough I have accounts with a number of on line
retailers.


On 6/21/2017 1:53 PM, Igor PDML-StR wrote:


P.J.,

It would be REALLY strange if the update to Firefox would fix whatever
problems you are having with Thunderbird...

;-)

On a serious note, speaking of that "reply"-button problem, - have you
(and everybody else on the list who suffers from it) submitted a bug
report on it?
If not, - you should.
1. They might not be aware of it.
2. They might not think that change was a problem...
3. The priority of the problem fixing is decided by the overall
loudness (hence the number) of complaints.

Igor


P. J. Alling Wed, 21 Jun 2017 09:02:46 -0700 wrote:

Dammit, there was a recent update to Firefox, and the didn't fix the
reply button. A!.



 Forwarded Message ----
Subject:    Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh
Date:   Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:51:08 -0400
From:   P. J. Alling <webstertwenty...@gmail.com>
To: Zos Xavius <zosxav...@gmail.com>



The universe is dmed.  Ultimate heat death in only 20 billion
years or so.*

*Your mileage may vary depending on the actual variation of the theory
you ascribe to.


On 6/20/2017 10:46 PM, Zos Xavius wrote:

Pentax is domed!








--
Science - Questions we may never find answers for.
Religion - Answers we must never question.

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Re: Fwd: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[P. J. Alling]

Firefox Thunderbird, all the same, amiright?

I checked the Thunderbird fora and it seems they're aware of the issue.

The problem with submitting a bug report to Bugzilla, is that I'd have 
to register.  I try to have as little online presence with "real" data 
as possible.  Bad enough I have accounts with a number of on line retailers.



On 6/21/2017 1:53 PM, Igor PDML-StR wrote:


P.J.,

It would be REALLY strange if the update to Firefox would fix whatever 
problems you are having with Thunderbird...


;-)

On a serious note, speaking of that "reply"-button problem, - have you 
(and everybody else on the list who suffers from it) submitted a bug 
report on it?

If not, - you should.
1. They might not be aware of it.
2. They might not think that change was a problem...
3. The priority of the problem fixing is decided by the overall 
loudness (hence the number) of complaints.


Igor


P. J. Alling Wed, 21 Jun 2017 09:02:46 -0700 wrote:

Dammit, there was a recent update to Firefox, and the didn't fix the 
reply button. A!.




 Forwarded Message ----
Subject:    Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh
Date:   Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:51:08 -0400
From:   P. J. Alling <webstertwenty...@gmail.com>
To: Zos Xavius <zosxav...@gmail.com>



The universe is dmed.  Ultimate heat death in only 20 billion
years or so.*

*Your mileage may vary depending on the actual variation of the theory
you ascribe to.


On 6/20/2017 10:46 PM, Zos Xavius wrote:

Pentax is domed!






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to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
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Fwd: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[Igor PDML-StR]

P.J.,

It would be REALLY strange if the update to Firefox would fix whatever 
problems you are having with Thunderbird...


;-)

On a serious note, speaking of that "reply"-button problem, - have you 
(and everybody else on the list who suffers from it) submitted a bug 
report on it?

If not, - you should.
1. They might not be aware of it.
2. They might not think that change was a problem...
3. The priority of the problem fixing is decided by the overall loudness 
(hence the number) of complaints.


Igor


P. J. Alling Wed, 21 Jun 2017 09:02:46 -0700 wrote:

Dammit, there was a recent update to Firefox, and the didn't fix the reply 
button. A!.




 Forwarded Message 
Subject:    Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh
Date:   Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:51:08 -0400
From:   P. J. Alling <webstertwenty...@gmail.com>
To: Zos Xavius <zosxav...@gmail.com>



The universe is dmed.  Ultimate heat death in only 20 billion
years or so.*

*Your mileage may vary depending on the actual variation of the theory
you ascribe to.


On 6/20/2017 10:46 PM, Zos Xavius wrote:

Pentax is domed!



--
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to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Fwd: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[P. J. Alling]

Dammit, there was a recent update to Firefox, and the didn't fix the 
reply button.   A!.




 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh
Date:   Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:51:08 -0400
From:   P. J. Alling <webstertwenty...@gmail.com>
To: Zos Xavius <zosxav...@gmail.com>



The universe is dmed.  Ultimate heat death in only 20 billion
years or so.*

*Your mileage may vary depending on the actual variation of the theory
you ascribe to.


On 6/20/2017 10:46 PM, Zos Xavius wrote:

Pentax is domed!



--
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the directions.

Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[David J Brooks]

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 10:29 AM, Igor PDML-StR  wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> It is the reality of the 21 century: most things are ordered via internet
> and brought to your home by UPS/FedEx/USPS.

I'm still in the 60's so this IS good news.:-)

I agree that i can order on line, but then have to sneak it by the WD
some how, but i do like to look and try first if i can. Henry's have
alwasy told me if i buy a lens that has to be ordered, they don't
accept returns on them only if its broken.

Dave
>
> In the first year or two after our kid was born, we had UPS people coming to
> our door at least 4 times a week, - thanks to free 2-day delivery with
> Amazon Prime (and the cheapest diapers with "Amazon Family" and
> subscription).
>
>
> Re: "most lenses are final sales only".
> You can return lenses with several reliable on-line Pentax authorized
> distributors.
> Say, on Amazon, IF the seller is Amazon (or the order is "fulfilled by
> Amazon", in which case the return rules are those of Amazon), -- you can buy
> lenses, and if you are not satisfied with them within 30 days, you can
> return them. You'd pay the return shipping.
> A similar picture is applicable to Walmart.com (only if the items are sold
> by Walmart). And I also believe, these days, B allows returns. IIRC, so
> does Adorama.
>
> Igor
>
>
>
> David J Brooks Wed, 21 Jun 2017 02:34:52 -0700 wrote:
>
> I hope so but they are not making it very easy in my neck of the woods
> to get product. Most if not all have to be ordered in and most lenses
> are final sales only
>
>
> Dave
>
> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 11:03 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:
>>
>> You seem to say that gleefully. It's a valuable brand. Someone will
>> probably
>> buy it cheap if Ricoh fails.
>>
>> Paul via phone
>
>
> --
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> follow the directions.



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Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[Darren Addy]

I've reconsidered my suggestion that Sony would be the best owner of
the Pentax brand. I doubt that they would preserve the name/brand, but
merely absorb it.
In fact, brands are absorbed and disappear all of the time. It
happened to venerable brands like Contax, Konica, Minolta and even
YUUGE brands like Kodak.
It would be sad, but the world would keep turning.

My K-3II is still going to be a great machine and the K-1 is still
going to be a killer full frame camera. One just wonders how long
their actual lifespans will be, or how long their practical lifespans
will be (when we merely sniff derisively at at quaint 24-36 MP image
files).

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 9:29 AM, Igor PDML-StR  wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> It is the reality of the 21 century: most things are ordered via internet
> and brought to your home by UPS/FedEx/USPS.
>
> In the first year or two after our kid was born, we had UPS people coming to
> our door at least 4 times a week, - thanks to free 2-day delivery with
> Amazon Prime (and the cheapest diapers with "Amazon Family" and
> subscription).
>
>
> Re: "most lenses are final sales only".
> You can return lenses with several reliable on-line Pentax authorized
> distributors.
> Say, on Amazon, IF the seller is Amazon (or the order is "fulfilled by
> Amazon", in which case the return rules are those of Amazon), -- you can buy
> lenses, and if you are not satisfied with them within 30 days, you can
> return them. You'd pay the return shipping.
> A similar picture is applicable to Walmart.com (only if the items are sold
> by Walmart). And I also believe, these days, B allows returns. IIRC, so
> does Adorama.
>
> Igor
>
>
>
> David J Brooks Wed, 21 Jun 2017 02:34:52 -0700 wrote:
>
> I hope so but they are not making it very easy in my neck of the woods
> to get product. Most if not all have to be ordered in and most lenses
> are final sales only
>
>
> Dave
>
> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 11:03 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:
>>
>> You seem to say that gleefully. It's a valuable brand. Someone will
>> probably
>> buy it cheap if Ricoh fails.
>>
>> Paul via phone
>
>
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Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[Igor PDML-StR]

Dave,

It is the reality of the 21 century: most things are ordered via internet 
and brought to your home by UPS/FedEx/USPS.


In the first year or two after our kid was born, we had UPS people coming 
to our door at least 4 times a week, - thanks to free 2-day delivery 
with Amazon Prime (and the cheapest diapers with "Amazon Family" and 
subscription).



Re: "most lenses are final sales only".
You can return lenses with several reliable on-line Pentax authorized 
distributors.
Say, on Amazon, IF the seller is Amazon (or the order is "fulfilled 
by Amazon", in which case the return rules are those of Amazon), -- you 
can buy lenses, and if you are not satisfied with them within 30 days, 
you can return them. You'd pay the return shipping.
A similar picture is applicable to Walmart.com (only if the items are sold 
by Walmart). And I also believe, these days, B allows returns. IIRC, so 
does Adorama.


Igor



David J Brooks Wed, 21 Jun 2017 02:34:52 -0700 wrote:

I hope so but they are not making it very easy in my neck of the woods
to get product. Most if not all have to be ordered in and most lenses
are final sales only


Dave

On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 11:03 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:

You seem to say that gleefully. It's a valuable brand. Someone will probably
buy it cheap if Ricoh fails.

Paul via phone


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Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[Zos Xavius]

I was mocking Rice High.

Domed ;)

On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 11:03 PM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
> You seem to say that gleefully. It's a valuable brand. Someone will probably 
> buy it cheap if Ricoh fails.
>
> Paul via phone
>
>> On Jun 20, 2017, at 10:46 PM, Zos Xavius  wrote:
>>
>> Pentax is domed!
>>
>> --
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>> follow the directions.
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Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[David J Brooks]

I hope so but they are not making it very easy in my neck of the woods
to get product. Most if not all have to be ordered in and most lenses
are final sales only

Dave

On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 11:03 PM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
> You seem to say that gleefully. It's a valuable brand. Someone will probably 
> buy it cheap if Ricoh fails.
>
> Paul via phone
>
>> On Jun 20, 2017, at 10:46 PM, Zos Xavius  wrote:
>>
>> Pentax is domed!
>>
>> --
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> PDML@pdml.net
>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and 
>> follow the directions.
>
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Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[Paul Stenquist]

You seem to say that gleefully. It's a valuable brand. Someone will probably 
buy it cheap if Ricoh fails.

Paul via phone

> On Jun 20, 2017, at 10:46 PM, Zos Xavius  wrote:
> 
> Pentax is domed!
> 
> -- 
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Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[Zos Xavius]

Pentax is domed!

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Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[Alex Sarbu]

"When in panic or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout" ;-)

Please ignore the alarmist Nikkei article - FTR Ricoh had to
officially deny 2 such "news", the one about closing down the camera
business (denied) and one about selling the leasing and semiconductor
businesses (not sure it means they won't sell those, or they didn't
decide if to sell or not).

Information can be found directly on Ricoh's site:
http://www.ricoh.com/IR/data/pre/pdf/h29q4_qa.pdf
http://www.ricoh.com/IR/pdf/presentation_text_2017.pdf

So, things are not rosy mostly due to their core copier business, and
they're reacting to prevent making a loss in FY2019. Ricoh Imaging
isn't doing that bad with the Theta and K-1.

Have fun,
Alex

On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 12:51 AM, Darren Addy  wrote:
> http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/For-Ricoh-it-s-a-sink-or-swim-moment
>
> This gives more credence to the story that Bipin shared back in April:
> http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Ricoh-may-close-shutter-on-personal-camera-business
>
> I have to believe that the Pentax division has made a name (and a
> larger market for itself) enough that it would be an attractive target
> for SOMEONE to purchase, but I **can't believe** that Pentax could be
> looking at yet another transitional period.
>
> Now that Pentax is using so many Sony chips, the company that really
> makes sense owning Pentax is Sony, IMHO. 
>
> We'll have to see how this plays out.
>
> darren
>
> --
> “The Earth is Art, The Photographer is only a Witness ”
> ― Yann Arthus-Bertrand, Earth from Above
>
> --
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> the directions.

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Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[Igor PDML-StR]

On the page that Gonz posted: 
https://www.dpreview.com/news/3586946955/ricoh-announced-cost-cuts-in-order-to-survive
look for the comment by Mistral75, where that user posts operating 
profits.


 Other (includes, but is not limited to, Ricoh Imaging): ¥1.4bn (FY2016) 
--> ¥(6.1)bn (FY2017, after ¥9.5bn impairment)


It is hard to say what else, besides Pentax os in that category. But
Pentax/Ricoh Imaging might, indeed, has increased the profit in this 
category due to the sales of the long-awaited K1. (I am not sure when 
their FY starts, it might have started in mid- or late-2016, when K1 was 
introduced.)
But that is still probably below the projected profits, according to this 
document:

https://www.ricoh.com/release/2017/0411_1.html
But I wouldn't be surprised that the "impairment" (which RonHendriks on 
that forum highlight that much) is not a problem, but just the way to

decrease their tax liability and satisfy the formal requirements of the
market (With the announcement).


In any case, if I understand correctly, So far, the talks are about 
reducing primarily the sales and services. But then, read the comment on 
the same DPreview page by DPPMetro:




"but if you need any kind of repairs or support down the road, you will be 
on your own."


In the fall, myself and others found out they shut down the miniscule pro 
service, which already had a much higher standard to get into than any 
competitor. We found out not by announcement, either. Pro Service is 
supposed to come with the 645 anyhow.


Next, they fired all the Pentax people in the US around the same 
timeframe, including our contacts.


Then they fired at least 1000 in the US alone when the last report by 
Nikkei was made.



And that what might hurt Pentax part.


Yet another thought, - I am not sure if at this stage Pentax is too much 
integrated with the rest of Ricoh Imaging, so that it cannot be separated 
and sold out without the rest of that division.




Igor



John Tue, 20 Jun 2017 13:19:26 -0700

My read on the situation is Pentax appears to be one of the few bright
spots on Ricoh's balance sheet.


Probably won't save Pentax if the parent company founders, but Pentax
isn't the cause of their troubles.


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Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[John]

My read on the situation is Pentax appears to be one of the few bright
spots on Ricoh's balance sheet.

Probably won't save Pentax if the parent company founders, but Pentax
isn't the cause of their troubles.

On 6/19/2017 17:51, Darren Addy wrote:

http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/For-Ricoh-it-s-a-sink-or-swim-moment

This gives more credence to the story that Bipin shared back in April:
http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Ricoh-may-close-shutter-on-personal-camera-business

I have to believe that the Pentax division has made a name (and a
larger market for itself) enough that it would be an attractive target
for SOMEONE to purchase, but I **can't believe** that Pentax could be
looking at yet another transitional period.

Now that Pentax is using so many Sony chips, the company that really
makes sense owning Pentax is Sony, IMHO. 

We'll have to see how this plays out.

darren



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Religion - Answers we must never question.

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Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[Gonz]

Yup, here's another...
https://www.dpreview.com/news/3586946955/ricoh-announced-cost-cuts-in-order-to-survive


On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 4:51 PM, Darren Addy  wrote:
> http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/For-Ricoh-it-s-a-sink-or-swim-moment
>
> This gives more credence to the story that Bipin shared back in April:
> http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Ricoh-may-close-shutter-on-personal-camera-business
>
> I have to believe that the Pentax division has made a name (and a
> larger market for itself) enough that it would be an attractive target
> for SOMEONE to purchase, but I **can't believe** that Pentax could be
> looking at yet another transitional period.
>
> Now that Pentax is using so many Sony chips, the company that really
> makes sense owning Pentax is Sony, IMHO. 
>
> We'll have to see how this plays out.
>
> darren
>
> --
> “The Earth is Art, The Photographer is only a Witness ”
> ― Yann Arthus-Bertrand, Earth from Above
>
> --
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> the directions.



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