1. If you haven't read Jane Smiley's comic novel MOO, do so. It's got great
descriptions of the economist, Dr. Guest, who thinks of students as
"customers" and trains them (with evangelistic glee) to be individualistic
free-riders. He loves the fact that the results fit with his a priori
vision
BLS DAILY REPORT, MONDAY, MARCH 24, 1997:
BLS reports the prices of goods imported into the United States
declined by 0.7 percent seasonally adjusted in February, the third
decrease in the last 4 months (Daily Labor Report, page D-1).
After a modest downturn in the first quarter of
Our administration is led by lefties. Our provost is a marxist, but he
makes public announcements that we have to change. As evidence, he
tells us that McDonalds runs a successful university that does not rely
on government support -- well a few subsidies for grazing, promoting
exports and the
Max S. asks a very good question: If students who pay for some type of
education are not customers, what are they? Suckers?
Strictly speaking, suckers are a kind of customer, so they could be both.
In fact, I think that many of them are both.
The point is that students are supposed to be _more
Max Sawicky asked,
If students who pay for some type of education are not
customers, what are they? Suckers?
Apprentices in the process of coming to know what they know. It may sound
pretentious (not to mention paradoxical), but people can't be taught
anything they don't already know. In
These are some final thoughts on the utopian socialism question. What Marx
and Engels saw as three of the main features of utopian thought were:
1) Ahistoricism:
The utopian socialists did not see the class struggle as the locomotive of
history. While they saw socialism as being preferable to
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tom Walker)
Subject: [PEN-L:9141] Re: customers or suckers?
Max wrote,
I always thought of education as much more impersonal than
all this, as well as more substantive. Maybe I'm the
misanthropic exception, but I don't think so (in this context,
At 01:40 PM 3/25/97 -0800, Karl Carlile wrote:
[SNIP]
KARL:Utopianism means striving for a state of being that is
unachievable. It means struggling for something that it is
historically impossible to establish. Utopianism is a political
philosophy and practice.This being utopian political
Yes, I saw this, hoping that it would pass without comments.
Let me take this one step further. If Robin takes this in stride -- and
I expect he will, then insults can be part of the rough and tumble of
the list, so long as they do not become the focus to the point of
distraction.
You might
On Tue, 25 Mar 1997, James Michael Craven wrote:
It seems every educational institution has the same basic reality:
1) Boards of Regents/Trustees who are basically political
hacks/sycophants appointed on the basis of their political
contributions (in dollars) and/or demonstrated
At 11:59 AM 3/25/97 -0800, Michael wrote:
Our administration is led by lefties. Our provost is a marxist, but he
makes public announcements that we have to change. As evidence, he
tells us that McDonalds runs a successful university that does not rely
on government support -- well a few
Louis N Proyect wrote:
(I would urge people to shy away from Robin Hahnel's
work, however, since he is now revealed as an intellectual snob. Isn't it
funny how beneath the tie-dyed grooviness of a Z Magazine figure, there
lurks somebody who wants to rub your nose in their curricula vitae.)
Steve Zahniser asks that I elaborate on my suggestion that
Helms-Burton (H-B) should be seen in light of inter-imperialist trade
competition. My point is that while Washington is trying to starve out
Cuba, H-B is also a weapon against its rivals (Canada, Europe). It
is a way of insisting the US
Max wrote,
I always thought of education as much more impersonal than
all this, as well as more substantive. Maybe I'm the
misanthropic exception, but I don't think so (in this context,
at least). Once again, I smell those beans simmering on
the stove . . .
I hope Max isn't just trying to be
From: James Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Max S. asks a very good question: If students who pay for some
type of education are not customers, what are they? Suckers?
My ill-tempered remark stems from the possibility
that in considering students in the context of a
'university community,'
At 12:19 PM 3/25/97 -0800, James Devine wrote:
Max S. asks a very good question: If students who pay for some type of
education are not customers, what are they? Suckers?
Strictly speaking, suckers are a kind of customer, so they could be both.
In fact, I think that many of them are both.
On an
For what it's worth, I respect Robin and Michael's
effort to introduce a democratic aspect to the planning
process, which seems to me to be the main virtue of their
system. I also note that I raised one problem
(aggregation) that has so far not received an answer.
Barkley Rosser
On Tue,
A KARL CARLILE MESSAGE
KARL: Hi Rosser!
ROSSER: But, I think that a certain amount of it is not only
healthy but necessary.
KARL:Utopianism means striving for a state of being that is
unachievable. It means struggling for something that it is
historically impossible to establish. Utopianism
A KARL CARLILE MESSAGE:
DAVID: Therefore, while Kabila is fighting a genuine struggle
against Mobutu for democracy we can point our guns in the same
direction. However, we cannot give him any political support.
revolutionaries have to fight for their armed independence and to
mobilise
Michael Albert and I developed our utopian model of a participatory economy
in large part in response to our historical evaluation of the strengths and
weaknesses of the Soviet, Chinese, Yugoslavian, and Cuban experiences. We
wrote about those experiences for 2/3 of a book -- Socialism Today and
Here! Here! Let's here it for a Jim Devine's defense of utopian thinking.
And, I'd like to add that I consider my recent reading of Bellamy's
Equality -- his lesser known but more complete work on utopianism --
and William Morris' News from Nowwhere -- a libertarian response to
what Morris
For example:
I know you're trying to be constructive after your recent
personality crisis - focusing on the positive can be very therapeutic.
And:
You certainly have a way of raising the quality of discussion.
I would like to suggest that those who wish to trade snide and petty
insults do
Father Devine and Tom Walker,
1. If you haven't read Jane Smiley's comic novel MOO, do so. It's
got great descriptions of the economist, Dr. Guest, who thinks of
students as "customers" and trains them (with evangelistic glee) to
be individualistic free-riders. He loves the fact that the
Okay, to used a mixed metaphor, I'll bite this thread. I have a
love/hate relationship with Foucault's work that includes both a lot of
respect and a lot of problems. I think Foucault deserves our respect if
for nothing else because he was a political activist who was out on the
streets
Jim Devine wrote,
1. If you haven't read Jane Smiley's comic novel MOO, do so. It's got great
descriptions of the economist, Dr. Guest, who thinks of students as
"customers" and trains them (with evangelistic glee) to be individualistic
free-riders. He loves the fact that the results fit with
BLS DAILY REPORT, FRIDAY, MARCH 21, 1997
RELEASED TODAY: The U.S. Import Price Index decreased 0.7 percent in
February. The decline followed a 0.2 percent decrease in January and
was attributable to a sharp drop in petroleum prices. The U.S. Export
Price Index edged up 0.1 percent in
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