I just heard a description of the "Rethinking Marxism" conference that
occurred in Amherst late last year. The reporter (Olga Celle de Bowman, a
sociologist from Peru) said that there was a tremendous amount of (verbal)
conflict between the audience and the speakers at the plenaries, something
I
what experience do people in places like the UK have with the absense of
tenure for professors? is it as bad as some people in the US fear? is there
a lot of violation of academic freedom?
in pen-l solidarity,
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Econ. Dept., Loyola Marymount
Robin is right: mainstream economics is environmentalist in theory, but not
in practice. It also assumes that the possibility of "external costs" is
simply given technologically (which profit-maximizing capitalists then
realize in practice); this ignores E.K. Hunt's theory, in which capitalists
In today's New York TIMES (April 29), there's a graph showing unemployment
rates in Britain, compared to those in the US and the Continent, using
"OECD standard measures." My question: though it is well-known that
Thatcher's administration several times redefined unemployment rates so
that they
Rakesh writes: If Indonesian capital can escape the contradiction between
production and consumption through the export of consumer goods--as
suggested by Jim-- why
can't US capital escape the same contradiction through the export of
investment goods to markets in Asian and Europe?
To some
Michael Hoover suggests (correctly, I think) that the fact that the jobs in
the southern US didn't pay well meant that there were inadequate consumer
markets in the South, so that there was no self-sustaining growth; the
actual growth was jump-started by military-related spending.
If we go
Terry McD writes that First, I agree that recent technical innovations in
communication and transportation are of an incremental character and are
therefor
relatively insignificant.
I don't see why incremental changes should be dismissed. Don't quantitative
changes sometimes lead to qualitative
Jerry, I don't get it: why are the supporters of Sendero relevant to pen-l?
Sendero, like the MTRA, is down for the count, not very relevant as a
political force in Peru except as a force that scares and/or disgusts
people.
Rather than talk about fights that have happened on other lists (M-I,
(initial caveat: I am not presenting a brief in favor of Sraffa's system; I
am going to ignore that system. I think that Joan Robinson's critique (that
it was only dealing with comparisons of unrealistic equilibrium points) was
sufficient. I don't see it as either a substitute for or a
Louis P. brings up the issue of Zaire, one that pen-l should discuss.
My feeling is that the US is pressuring and is going to pressure Kabila's
forces so that they will be safe neo-liberals but (hopes the State
Department) not kleptocrats like Mobutu. With the USSR no longer
counterbalancing
Does anybody on pen-l know of any good references on (or special insight
into) the subject of the Marxian theory of "uneven and combined
development." I am specifically thinking of the theory that the Bolsheviks
invoked in the early 20th century, rather than the dependency school's
"uneven
I always thought that the word "neo-liberalism" was a (perhaps unconscious)
effort to deal with the conflicting meanings of the word "liberalism":
"liberalism" means "classical liberalism" (laissez-faire) in Europe and
most other places, while in the U.S.A., it means "welfare statism." So
does anyone on pen-l have any special information about the government raid
on the Japanese ambassador's mansion (ending the hostage sitation)? it
seems very suspicious that ALL of the hostage-takers were killed. It sure
sounds like some of the hostage-takers were killed after they were taken
Michael Perleman writes that (or quotes Thernborn that): To Hobbes and
Locke,
civil society was contrasted with a state of nature and was synonymous
with a politically organized society.
For Locke, the "state of nature" (ch. 2 of the 2nd TREATISE OF GOVERNMENT)
was extremely different from
Jim Craven writes:You all know about the Darwin Awards - It's an annual
honor given to the person who did the gene pool the biggest service by
killing themselves in the most extraordinarily stupid way.
this kind of thing always evokes a chuckle (as with NEWS OF THE WIERD's
recent story about a
Dater Loster (commonly known as "Our Hard Drive")
Our Hard Drive
Which art internal
Volume C: by name;
Thy code be clean,
Thy fonts be seen
On screen as they are on paper.
Give us tis day our documents,
And lead us not into fragmentation
But deliver us our data.
For thine is the SCSI,
and the
Doug writes that I understand that the GPI [Genuine Progress Indicator]
people didn't include education in their index because they think there's
no evidence that spending more money improves results.
I don't think so. Rather than starting with real GDP and subtracting or
adding to correct for
Robin Hahnel writes: BUT the Sraffian framework is more self-consciously
limited. It screams out that something other than the analysis you are
being presented goes into determining the wage/profit ratio.
This self-conscious limitation is very important. The Walrasian attitude
seems to be to
Rich Parkin writes: Incidentally, Jim, the subst. effects they claim to
be addressing are only within product classes (close substitutes) (Purdue v
Tyson?) rather than across them (chicken v beef), at least according to the
NY Times...
I stand (or rather, sit) corrected.
But if the geo-mean
besides the obvious political advantages of using the geometric-mean CPI
(lowering the budget deficit), is there any _theoretical_ reason why it is
superior to the old arithmetic-mean CPI?
I am not impressed by the substitution effect story. If higher prices of
beef drive me to eat chicken
Michael, here's a list of books I give my students (they choose one and are
supposed to write a book review that goes beyond regurgitation):
1. Teresa Amott, Caught in the Crisis: Women and the U.S. Economy Today.
2. Alan Blinder, Hard Heads, Soft Hearts: Tough-Minded Economics for a Just
Tom Walker quotes Max as saying that The issue isn't whether I or anyone
else "likes" social democracy... The issue is how good stuff happens and
how shit happens.
And then quotes me as replying: The basic argument here is whether [A]
positive social change happens because grassroots agitation
I'm sorry if the following repeats anything that Sid, Elaine,
Anders, and Louis said (not because they're wrong but because
repetition is boring). I'll limit my discussion to a small number of
points. Sorry if my missive is still too long.
there's some sort of distinction between "socio-economics" (Etzioni) and
social economics (the REVIEW OF SOCIAL ECONOMICS). To make things worse,
there are several flavors of institutional economics, which is very similar
to social economics. If any one knows what the differences are between
does anyone in pen-l land know anything about the work of Kevin Murphy of
the University of Chicago, who just won the John Bates Clark award?
in pen-l solidarity,
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Econ. Dept., Loyola Marymount Univ.
7900 Loyola Blvd., Los Angeles, CA 90045-8410
I wrote: The actual development of working class movements is much
less predictable than the development of capital.
Jerry writes: Yeah, but the prediction of the actual development of
capital hasn't been that easy either. Perhaps it would be better for
Marxists if they got out of the
testing: does this new e-mail facility work? (Sorry to bother you.)
-- Jim
The JOURNAL OF ECONOMIC PERSPECTIVES, Winter 1997, had a useful
forum on the "Natural Rate of Unemployment," or what is more
scientifically termed the "Non-Accelerating Inflation Rate of
Unemployment" (NAIRU). On pen-l, it seems, we reached a consensus
to call it the "Macroeconomic
I wrote: A long time ago, someone (Gil Skillman, I believe) argued
on pen-l that the Sraffa system was simply a special case of the
Arrow-Debreu general equilibrium model.
He now writes: I confess I made a claim similar to this, but the
details of the argument are important why should we
I just read Joel Kovel's glowing review of Meszaro's BEYOND CAPITAL in the
March 1997 MONTHLY REVIEW. Despite the rave review (which may be that way
because MR published the book), the book doesn't seem worth it. Read the
review and see.
Mike Lebowitz (once a pen-l stalwart) published an
1. If you haven't read Jane Smiley's comic novel MOO, do so. It's got great
descriptions of the economist, Dr. Guest, who thinks of students as
"customers" and trains them (with evangelistic glee) to be individualistic
free-riders. He loves the fact that the results fit with his a priori
vision
Max S. asks a very good question: If students who pay for some type of
education are not customers, what are they? Suckers?
Strictly speaking, suckers are a kind of customer, so they could be both.
In fact, I think that many of them are both.
The point is that students are supposed to be _more
For the sake of not only my own ego-enlargement but also the
progress of pen-l debate, it's good to read Louis Proyect saying,
after simply repeating his previous points, that
Jim Devine is correct. Marx and Engels did respect what they
[the utopians] were doing since utopian publications,
Barkley blames the tendency for top management to take over from
worker-managers on the interference by the League of Yugo Communists, etc.
That's plausible, but since the co-ops are not owned by the worker-managers
alone, but by the state, isn't that kind of interference almost inevitable.
Even
Paul Phillips, writes that it is Horvat who rails against the Ward/Vanek
model as
empirically untrue -- in fact just the opposite.
Right. But is the Ward model empirically wrong because it is logically
flawed (because a worker co-op does not have an inherent tendency to be
exclusive, to avoid
Over the weekeend, Louis P. wrote: You [Paul Phillips] and Jim Devine
lost me about three posts ago when you starting focusing on Horvat. I think
that was probably the idea.
Louis, I don't think that anyone was trying to drive you out of the
discussion by being overly formal. It's the language
Max Sawicky responded to a little essay I presented to pen-l on
"requiem for social democracy" in a very irritating way. Rather than
trying to digest the whole thing, he splits it up and answers
piece-meal. That's not good for a serious discussion. I'll skip over
his unneeded and distracting
Max writes: What remains difficult to demonstrate, it seems to me,
as opposed to theorizing about, is whether the effective
popular movement must be overtly revolutionary, or merely
strong enough to be a political threat just by playing according to
the rules of the bourgeois political system.
I'm all in favor of social-democratic reforms: it'd be great, for example,
if this country (the U.S.) had a Canadian-style single-payer national
health system, though it probably could be improved.
The problem with social democracy is not the reforms themselves. I doubt
that anyone on pen-l
If today's rumor is true about America On Line wanting to take over
CompuServe, then _no-one_ will be able to get on-line.
In the U.S., the phone companies keep on introducing new area codes.
Recently, for example, they announced the split of the 213 area code
(downtown Los Angeles) into two, so
A long time ago, someone (Gil Skillman, I believe) argued on pen-l that the
Sraffa system was simply a special case of the Arrow-Debreu general
equilibrium model. Anybody interested in this issue will want to look at
Dumenil Levy THE ECONOMICS OF THE PROFIT RATE, ch. 4. It suggests that
this
I'm very glad that Paul Phillips decided to return after his short break.
He writes I find it somewhat ironical that we, who rail against the
neoclassical model, accept a neoclassical model to judge the behaviour of
co-ops, socially owned firms etc. The Ward-Vanek model begins with the same
Barkley writes: Ben Ward did have this famous backward-bending supply
curve argument with arguments that coops will not hire labor. This tendency
to not hire labor, which coincides with not laying labor off, tends to be
an intra-firm phenomenon. Jaroslav Vanek has argued that the solution to
this
Roger Alcaly (who used to be a leftist, I believe) has an article in the
most recent NEW YORK REVIEW OF BOOKS on the new wave in corporate
organization. Though it's got some interesting facts, it's pretty poor.
He's praising the phenomenon of (some) corporations giving more power or
privileges to
Louis Proyect writes: the 19th century utopians were trying to
figure out ways to "perfect" the French revolution by extending
political equality to social equality. The problem is that they had
no concept of class struggle.
However, as Hal Draper and other writers have note, Marx Engels
did
Louis P. writes: Carlos Fonseca, the founder of the FSLN, did not
have utopian dreams. He had a model of the good society in mind and
this was Cuba
I have no doubt that this is so. However, I would bet that he also
(1) wanted to adapt the Cuban model to Nicararaguan conditions; and
(2) to
Here, I define utopianism as an effort to make moral ideals more concrete,
to develop pictures of how "true socialism might actually work in practice"
or "true communism might work in practice."
Louis Proyect criticizes utopianism. I can understand why, but as Peter
Dorman points out, that "why"
I totally agree with Louis Proyect that Elster's presentation and critique
of Marx is either almost or totally worthless. His opus, MAKING HASH OF
MARX, seems nothing but a collection of errors. I haven't had the patience
to read the whole book. But every time I have dug into it in order to get
I wrote: How could the market be an "alternative"? an alternative
to what? to socialism? it's clearly not an alternative to
capitalism.
Justin S. writes This is a little glib, Jim. You know perfectly
well that there are serious socialists, a fair number of us, who do
argue that market socialism
The laws of quantum mechanics imply that Hayek couldn't have been wrong
_all the time_. But I think it's bad karma to bring up Hayek on pen-l,
because there are Hayekian lurkers about who will bombard us with the Truth
about Hayek.
in pen-l solidarity,
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL
to Patrick B.: I didn't know Roemer had sunk that low, getting so wrapped
up in the market mystique.
Justin S. writes that: we need to develop alternatives, market and
nonmarket. I am glad taht there are people who categorically reject markets
and so work on nonmarket
alternatives, but the need
Ron Baiman writes: I too like much of Hahnel-Albert's work but feel that
their
categorical rejection of all market mechanisms is counter productive and
leaves them open to the wishfull thinking impractical utopian type
criticism to which they have been subjected.
It's important to remember
On Sat, 15 Mar 1997, Michael Eisenscher responded to "my" reperiodization of
the stages of US capitalist development: BTW, it is worth recalling that
Gordon, Edwards, Reich, et al. arrived at their periodization of SSAs based
on a fair amount of econometric work and empircal examination of the
Breaking away from animal husbandry with my sheep, I am tempted to defend
Los Angeles against the dire slander that it is New York (the so-called
"Big" Apple) that is the world center of sarcasm and irony rather than the
City of the Angels. But instead, a couple comments on Roemer.
First, I want
(apologies ahead of time for this: I also walked out of the Mel Gibson
flick "Ransom" thinking about game theory.)
The L.A. TIMES today (May 1, 1997) published exerpts from the CIA manual on
how to torture prisoners (used at the notorious US Army School of the
Americas). This book should not be
(apologies ahead of time for this: I also walked out of the Mel Gibson
flick "Ransom" thinking about game theory.)
The L.A. TIMES today (May 1, 1997) published exerpts from the CIA manual on
how to torture prisoners (used at the notorious US Army School of the
Americas). This book should not be
I'm sorry that I started a discussion of the Rethinking Marxism conference.
Not having been there, I didn't know that people were so sensitive about
it. Worse, I didn't realize that it would open the Jerry vs. Louis debate.
Anyway, I think that pen-l has said enough about that conference --
I had written there's clearly a biological/genetic/evolutionary basis for
sexism. Obviously, the average man's superior upper body strength compared
to the average woman gives him the upper hand when "might makes right." And
that's a basis of a lot of women's subordination (even though it's
Not only did Louis gracefully post Barbara Ehrenreich Janet McIntosh's
"The New Creationism," but the NATION actually came before June. It's okay
as journalism goes (and as Doug knows, journalism has its limits). My main
problem for me is that it didn't give the PoMotistas a chance to defend
Wojtek writes that: we can safely dismiss all so-so biologies,
eveloutionary psychologies, etc. as crap without even reading it, for the
same reason we dismiss astrology, parapsychology, and metaphysics without
even bothering to refute them -- because they attempt to sneak on us an
impossible
Bill writes: I'm also curious about goods which are now sold in giant
stores (Office
Depot, for example) where the "sales staff" are generally clueless, phone
lines with automated menus replace a real salesperson, and you generally
have to forage for your own goods (I'm exaggerating a bit).
this
I wouldn't reject the role of all biology/genetics/evolution in explaining
human behavior. However, I would follow Marvin Harris, the anthropological
padrone primero of "cultural materialism," to see a revolution in human
evolution, where the evolution of culture (including technology) replaced
Bill Lear writes: Perhaps Jim Devine, who seems to have a cool head about
this, can intercede and tell me if I am being unreasonable. I feel the
flames rumbling---but that's how I respond when I feel that democracy is
being swept aside as some romantic fantasy, and that engaging in queries
about
As far as I can tell, the term "jobless growth" makes sense in two
different ways.
(1) in a recovery period like circa 1992 in the US, businesses respond to
increased demand for their products by using "overhead workers" (long-term
employees) more intensively and extensively (longer hours)
I substantially agree with what Wojtek said in response to my missive in
this thread (locality == loyalty?). All I was saying is that one can't
simply look at social geography. Class is also important, along with race
and gender.
I wrote ... democracy is an end in itself, rather than being a
according to a very short blurb in May 15's L.A. TIMES, "Mother Nature is
giving humanity $16 trillion to $54 trillion worth of services a year to
the world, a new report says [in the May 15 edition of NATURE]. That's
bigger than the global gross national product, which the World Bank
estimates
I wrote: ...democracy is an end in itself. ... democracy is the only
legitimate political principle.
Terry McD COMMENTs: While I agree that democracy is the political
principle which should be applied in a socialist or communist context, I
don't think democracy is either meaningful or
I wrote: In terms of my research, what's happened is a shift from the
"labor scarce" economy of especially the 1960s, where exuberant growth
pulled up wages relative to productivity, to a "labor abundant" economy
where this doesn't happen, as in the 1920s. (I'm sorry about the
scarce/abundant
Over last weekend, I attended the convention of the Autism Society of
California (because my son has a relatively mild case). One fact jumped
out: autism is becoming more common. It's hard to separate the case of a
neurological/psychological problem like this becoming more common vs. the
case
I had written ... in the late part of the 19th century, a period of
DEglobalization
started. The US and Germany led the way toward nation-based
industrialization, backed by strong restrictions on trade.
Michael P. writes: Yes and no. Both countries tried to build up their
industrial structures
there's clearly a biological/genetic/evolutionary basis for sexism.
Obviously, the average man's superior upper body strength compared to the
average woman gives him the upper hand when "might makes right." And that's
a basis of a lot of women's subordination (even though it's becoming
Max titled his missive on this subject "The Plan Boss, the Plan" as an
effort to introduce some humor. I am not humor-impaired, but it took me a
couple of days to get it. The problem is that I'm TV-deprived, especially
with respect to the 1970s and early 1980s. I never saw the "Brady Bunch,"
"the
I'll skip most of what Max said in this thread because Bill Lear already
answered it. I agreed with all or almost all of what he said -- and it
would be tedious to go through what Bill said to figure out if there are
any points that need to be strengthened or dropped. I'll stick to the
technical
Maurice Foisy writes: In our state (and evrywhere in the U.S.) when
groups such as labor or the Democratic party attempt to rationalize the use
of scarce resources -
through targeting on winnable districts, etc.- the only perspective from
which this makes sense is a centralized one, i.e. at the
But you've got to admit that the high-tech astronaut pen did produce some
good jokes on Seinfeld.
During the heat of the space race in the 1960's, NASA decided it needed a
ball point pen to write in the zero gravity confines of its space capsules.
After considerable research and development, the
Max S. writes Post-1986, US borrowing is financing tax revenue erosion
and increases in health care (Medicare and Medicaid). ... Presently, public
borrowing in the U.S. ... is making possible an intergenerational
redistribution (e.g., borrowing finances health and nursing home care for
the
Wojtek, if I read you right, you're saying that being in the same
geographical area, especially in face-to-face contact, breeds solidarity.
Maybe, but that predicts that the plant manager will have more in common
with the plant's rank and file than with the folks at corporate HQ. That
doesn't fit
Wojtek Sokolowski wrote As long as, for whatever reason, "peripheral
devices" are allowed to feed bullshit to the processing units, no
processing system, even one with the zillions-Deep-Blues processing
capability, can solve the resource allocation problem. That is true of
both, central planning
Trevor Evans asks: ... could Jim Devine say how the 'conventional rate of
profit' is defined.
The one that Dean Baker (not "the" Dean Baker) reports on was calculated by
the Bureau of Economic Analysis of the US Department of Commerce. I do not
have a copy of the _Business Conditions Digest_ in
Yeah, Louis, I know that Kasparov is not even a _shallow_ red, but on the
side of the devils. But who can resist cuteness?
Someone should dig up the old Bob Gibson/Hamilton Camp song (to the tune of
"John Henry") about the battle between "a thinking man" and a computer
(guess who wins).
As Doug points out, except when it helps people defend against
colonization, nationalism isn't pretty. (Even then, nationalism can be a
problem: look at how China and Viet Nam fought. Cambodian nationalism under
Pol Pot was worse than disgusting.)
That suggests that I need to stress that the
I think that the discussion on pen-l would be better (and I think it is
pretty good at this point) if people made a clear effort to distinguish
between what participants in pen-l say and the views being responded to. I
am thinking of Doug's tendency to respond to what Roger Burbach says (or
Awhile back, wojtek sokolowski said that it is better to analyse social
institutions (e.g. how the production is being organised in the developing
countries) rather than watching trends in economic aggregates which,
paraphrasin Plato, are but shadows cast on the wall of a cave populated by
Louis notes: My experience, by the way, is that American corporations
have shot themselves in the foot with a lot of the downsizing ...
This is something that a lot of the business press has been saying, even
outside of EDP. But downsizing has been pushed onto corporations by (1)
creditors and
I had written: In the Marxian tradition, "feudal exploitation" involves
"direct repression" as "the main mode of labor control" but NOT "the
abundance of cheap labor" which "makes it more rational [for the employer]
to employ more human labor [rather] to invest in labor-saving technology."
Wojtek S writes that "Feudal exploitation", by contrast, obtains when the
abundance of cheap labour makes it more rational to employe more labour
than to invest in labour saving technology. I call it "feudal" because the
volume of human labour was the main factor under the human control
affecting
At 10:43 AM 5/6/97 -0400, Wojtek Sokolowski wrote:
Assuming that "capital" is the shorthand for "the power to fetch the
benefits of other people's labour," the question of primary importance is
how the capital owner can fetch those benefits under different conditions.
Investment is but one form
Like the character played by Cuba Gooding Jr. in the flick "Jerry McGuire,"
Doug is repeating: "show me the evidence."
That's a good thing to ask. But let's not get all the way in to empiricism,
where the evidence is all there is.
BTW, back in the 1950s, when Daniel Bell predicted "the end
I wrote: The simple index [ of openness for the US] rises, steadily but
with a steepening curve, from 4 per cent in 1959 to over 12 per cent in
1996.
Tavis repliesWhich is to say, not much, relative to the rest of the
world.
agreed, but the point is that the US economy has changed and is
(I know I should be grading term papers, but they're so bad...)
Tavis writes:I guess I'd have a slightly different answer. The
autocentric economy
seems derivative of the postwar import-substitutionist economy, which
nobody is really doing much of anymore. Deregulation is happening almost at
I said "The longer the boom, the longer the 'real economy' is fragile." I
meant to say that "the MORE the real economy is fragile."
BTW, I am not predicting an instant replay of the Great Depression (though
that scenario seems more likely that when I wrote my 1994 RPE article). The
US and world
Doug asks: what is the opposite of globalization?
To my mind, the opposite of globalization is the autocentric economy, where
(on the level of the economy as a whole, not for individual capitalists)
wages are treated as a source of demand and most investment goods are
purchased domestically.
michael perelman asks:During most U.S. depression, capital has succeeded in
preserving part of its prior gains by bearing down harder on workers,
farmers, etc. Such was not the case during the Great Depression.
Was there any reason, other than the existence of an alternative system,
that made
We have to reconcile Ed Herman's theory of third world immiseration with
Anthony's glowing description of Singapore's prosperity, complete with
obnoxious cellular phones. More generally, how to reconcile Herman's story
with the success of a lot of East Asia. The second, more general, question
has
Again, thanks to Louis for his learned presentation.
This is a VERY important question. I'll bring in a small number of points:
* the idea of a "people-class" encouraging social antagonism (in this case,
the Jews) fits with the pluralist view that when "social cleavages" (class
vs. class,
Thanks, Louis for the great analysis of Algeria. I hope there are other
people who know about that country who can add as much.
Louis mentions the distinction between Algeria and Cuba, with the latter
being a case of a country that did break with capitalism.
It is useful to clarify
Louis Proyect writes: The FLN in Algeria caved in to pressures from the
Algerian bourgeoisie.
My impression was that the FLN caved because the "battle of Algiers" (the
grass-roots popular rebellion against French rule, portrayed in the famous
movie of the same name) was defeated by the French.
BTW, Anthony, I already knew that Los Angeles was quite different from
(much richer than) the vast majority of other third-world cities.
Anthony asks: What sort of non-capitalist growth is there? At least in
historical terms, we have have the pre-capitalist, feudal, whatever, if it
was growth
Living on the US West Coast, I receive the NATION magazine long after
everyone on the east coast. I received the Sept. 29 issue, which was
probably mailed on the 17th or the 20th, on Sept. 26. This means that I get
to enjoy life as if I were in a time machine.
Seemingly weeks after the official
Anthony P D'Costa writes: The capacity of the "have nots" around the world
to absorb intolerable levels of living is almost infinite from the
perspective of those who "have". While it is a relevant question, bad air or
growth (and structural change), more people are caught up with growth and
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