The following may be of interest -- Jim Devine
Original message
I am interested in some of the brief comments that have been made
recently on participatory economic planning "from the bottom up"
in the context of a reconstituted socialism.
This is in response to Allin Cottrell and Chris Barrett's
response to my original posting on the Yugoslav planning
experience.
Cottrell (I admit I have not read their book) does not seem
to be describing what I mean by "participatory planning", which
was a political process involving people
Tom Weisskopf asked what would explain the fact that, despite
the lower cost of producing Nikes etc., the price hasn't fallen
and monopoloy profits arebeing made despite
potential competition.
One wonders if this does not fit very nicely into Sweezy's
kinked (oligopoly) demand curve where,
Pen-lers,
I am scheduled to debate with Roger Douglas of (in)famous
New Zealand neo-conservatism next Tuesday (April 5) here at
the University of Manitoba. He is making the rounds here in
Canada, I believe under the auspices of an ultra-right think
tank, spouting monetarism, privatization,
Why is it that Americans feel that their (perverted?) values are
superior to all others that they feel they must use the cyberspace
to defeat what Canadians feel are the proper values of equity and
access to just treatment? The recent comments on the invasion of
the Canadian system of justice
Can anyone give me some leads. A colleague who is looking at the impact of work
er participation (profit sharing,
esop, worker involvement ect.) on productivity wants to know if there
are any national (comparative) surveys of the extent of worker part-
icipation and othe forms of involvement in
This is a response to Nathan Newman's posting:
After having spent the last eight years researching, studying
and teaching in and about Yugoslavia and its constituent parts, I
find the kind of gut reaction of Nathan and others to the events in
Bosnia to be frustrating. I find it
Pen-ners
Since my response to Nathan elicitated not only a considerable
response, and several requests for elaboration, but also
unsolicited responses for additional information and at response
to a private communication that was not posted to this network, I
am goaded (prompted, flattered) to
Pen-ners,
This is about reporting and its effects on perceptions of what is
really going on in Bosnia. But first a footnote to yesterdays
post on the effect of US intervention in Bosnia. This is a short
quote from Paul Koring's article in todays _Globe and Mail_
"The statement by British
Pen-ners,
A short post to explain the relative territorial distributions in
Bosnia. At the time of the unilateral declaration of independence
by the Muslim led government, Serbs and Yugoslavs represented just
under 40 per cent of the population, but they inhabited approximately
60 per cent of
The most comprehensive analysis of the ECA and the attack on
New Zealand labour that I have seen is a long (240 page ms)
manuscript by Ellen Dannin who responded to my earlier request
for information for my debate with Douglas. (That should read
140 page, not 240 page). (We Can't Overcome? Labour
The following job has opened up (somewhat late in the game) here
at the University of Manitoba in the Department of economics, a
department that is committed to "methodological pluralism" and welcomes
applications from economists of all stripes. The official announcement
reads:
The Department
Sam Lanfraco worries that it is -4F outside -- here it is -24C
outside. Wither the Weather -- Sydney Australia, burning up in
plus 40C, Europe washing away in rain, Manitoba freezing in -20s
and -30s C -- whatever happened to global warming.
Paul Phillips,
Economics, Manitoba
Anthony D'Costa commented recently on the failure of orthodox
economists to recognize the importance of institutions in the
failure of the IMF project and Jeffrey Sachs departure from
Russia.
It was interesting this morning to hear a debate on CBC between
Sachs and a Russian economist (I didn't
The following may be of interest -- Jim Devine
Original message
I am interested in some of the brief comments that have been made
recently on participatory economic planning "from the bottom up"
in the context of a reconstituted socialism.
This is in response to Allin Cottrell and Chris Barrett's
response to my original posting on the Yugoslav planning
experience.
Cottrell (I admit I have not read their book) does not seem
to be describing what I mean by "participatory planning", which
was a political process involving people
Tom Weisskopf asked what would explain the fact that, despite
the lower cost of producing Nikes etc., the price hasn't fallen
and monopoloy profits arebeing made despite
potential competition.
One wonders if this does not fit very nicely into Sweezy's
kinked (oligopoly) demand curve where,
Oh Tavis, you bring out the worst in me.
I should point out that we boycott US toys for Christmas presents
for our grandchildren -- in particular the products from Disney which
we consider the worst of all producers. In relative terms, we consider
these products the bottom of the line --
Pen-llers,
I it just me -- or is everone getting long messages about right
wing populism on the net? "Government is bad, the necessity of
reducing government expenditures and taxes, etc -- and all of that
sh__. I this what this net is about, in which case is it time for
me to sign off? or
Following from Doug's comments, I would like to relate a short
anecdote:
Shortly after I joined the economics faculty at the University of
Manitoba, I ran for union rep for our faculty constituency which, at
that time, was composed of the Economics Department and the Department
of Religious
Pen-lers
what is the best, readily available source for US unit labour
costs (real) 1980-1993 -- or does anyone have the figures handy?
Paul Phillips,
University of Manitoba,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks to all who responded to my request for infor re unit labour
costs.
Paul Phillips,
University of Manitoba
Aprapos of Sid Sniad's comments/post on Cuba, what ever happened to
the proposal that surfaced on the pen-l some time ago that those of
us interested contribute $100 to a Cuba assistance fund that would
be redeemable in a couple of years in tourist/travel expenses?
paul phillips
A short respose to Shawgi Tell on Canadian medicare.
1st, there are difficulties, primarily with reduction in funding
by the Federal government (though the provinces are not blameless
here).
2nd, there was a great need for reform in the system since it
discouraged _pre_ventative medicine in
I am a little suprised at a kind of a-historicism and cultural
insensitivity of Bill and Doug with respect to both classical
music (in particular opera) and fold music a la Seeger et al.
With respect to opera, Verdi's music was considered so politically
dangerous by the elite that he was
On most occassions I agree with Doug. But now I am confused. Within
the last couple of weeks two empty blocks at the end of my block have
been cleared and new construction begun. One, is to construct a new
McDonalds outlet -- the other to construct a new Wendy's" outlet. Now
I shouldn't let
Maggie,
Are you really saying that when you really found out what
the pomos were saying that you gave up reading them entirely?
Don't blame you, but the music is still beautiful!
Paul
I, like many others on the list, were someone taken aback by Louis'
outrageous reaction to what to me seemed to be a very important and
interesting question posed by Peter. Nor did I take Peter's
question to be some sort of Hayekian theoretical response to Louis
narrative of events in Cuba, but
Just a quick response to Barkley and Sid. According to local news
reports, the workers did not support some union leaders' calls to
join the demonstrations, which doesn't surprise me very much. In
the interviews with the workers, they were more concerned with work
and wages (and a fear of
Doug writes: are the probems of the third world the result of
information asymetry?
Yea, Doug: They know more about the US than the US does about them.
Paul Phillips,
Economics,
University of Manitoba
It seems to me that this whole discussion is taking place around
a very limited understanding of long wave/swing theory, of which
Schumpeter's model is only one (of many) theoretical variants.
First, there is the implication in this stream that there is
some form of cyclical nature to this
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The origin
I am having a little difficulty believing I am on a 'progressive'
economics network and yet reading the stuff that is being posted.
1. during the war (2nd WW) the unemployment rate fell to
around 1% without any structural and frictional constraints
but within the framework of a strict f
(that
Dear Pen-lers:
Phil O'Hara, who is in the final phase of editing the encyclopedia of
political economy, needs some help. He is teaching a subject he
has never taught before - International Economics 400 at Honors
level - and in the light of the enormous burden of the epe needs some
help with
Pen-lers,
I have had some enquiries by a member of the general public about
a number of issues relating to corporations, the environment and
globalization.
Specifically, he asked "if you knew of a single useful source of
information on the negative effects of globalization (a scientific
paper
Can anyone tell me simply how the geometric mean CPI is calculated.
I know how the Laspeyres is computed but have not come accross
the geometric calculation.
Paul Phillips,
Economics,
University of Manitoba.
Bill Burgess writes:
they insist on the right to continue to profit wherever they like,
including in Cuba where they have the advantage of no US competition.
This is exactly what Jesse Helms has been saying and the justification
for the Helms-Burton legislation that I, and the Canadian
Blair,
Perhaps I was being a little extreme, but then trying to starve into
submission 10 million people, depriving the sick of medicines etc.,
seems to me to be pretty extreme imperialism.
Paul Phillips
I have used the Waring video in my classes, in particular Women and
the Canadian Economy, very effectively. It is very good on
the issue of the degrading of women's contribution to the economy
and *as a result*, the degredation of the environment. But it
is shallow on the question of capitalism
I would like to thank Shawgi for posting Fidel's speech and
the Granma article on the net. I would also like to point out,
in furtherence of his previous posting about Walmart's decision
to take Cuban made PJ's out of their Canadian stores, that the
company under Canadian pressure decided to
Bill,
According to my figures, GDP for Canada in 1933 was 70.2% of GDP
in 1929, a ~ 30% drop compared to the approx 50% drop in Cuba. If
these figures are correct then the drop in Cuba was over 50% greater
in Canada.
Paul
([EMAIL PROTECTED] [130.179.16.26]) by
for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 10:21:53 -0600 (CST)
From: Helen Osman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 10:21:51 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Cuba visit(long)
To: phillps
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 10:21:51 -0600
Doug,
1 liner. What does MA stand for.
Paul
Paul Phillips,
U of Manitoba
(The Devine) Jim responded to my comments about the illogicality
of heterodox economists even accepting NRU OR Nairu as the basis
of macroeconomic debate by talking about shifts in the institutions
governing the labour market and the effect that this can have on
the trade-off between inflational
I think Barkley is quite correct about the relative success of the
Slovenian economy. The unemployment rate peaked at 9.1 % (ILO
definition) in 1993 and had fallen to 7.4 % by 1995, well below the
German rate. GDP had recoved to about 97 % of the
pre-breakup maximum by 1995 and real wages stood
Dear friends,
After Louis' last piece of venom that attacked, not only me, but
my acquaitances that may (or may not) agree with me, but who have
never heard of Louis Proyet, I must withdraw from further discussion
on pen-l. I will not unsubscribe, for that would deprive me of
the pearls of
Ken Hanley, in discussing the introduction of medicare in Saskatchewan
in the early 1960s, called it a social democratic move but he did
not think that the CCF referred to themselves as social democrats
at that time.
As it happens, I was leader of the young CCF on the Campus of the
University
Jim, I came across another article that deals with the theory of
the worker owned firm, B. Horvat, "The Theory of the Worker-
Managed Firm RevisiteJ of Comparative Economics, I, 1986.
Paul
Jim,
I know that Horvat has written many articles oposing the
Ward-Vanek model and I have them somewhere, but where is the
question. One reference I do have is "The Illyrian Firm: An
Alternative View: a Rejoinder" *Economic Analysis and Workers"
self Management*, 1986. I do think that anyone
Yes Jim, there is too much on our plate. Unfortunately, marking
essays and setting finals etc. does not give me time to respond to
all the discussion but, a couple of points:
a) no Louis, I was not talking about Bruno Hzladj, whom I don't know
but Dimitar Mircev whom I have known for 10 years.
Unfortunately our e-mail has been down for the past couple of days
so I have not been able to respond to the Slovenia thread until now
at which point it has gone off in several directions. Let me begin
by quoting Branko Horvat in a private correspondence he sent me after
I had sent him a long
I beg to differ with Tom Walker but not with the basic point he
makes -- that there is a need to modify, change, update etc. our
institutions to keep up with social and technological change. If
he looks carefully at what I said,however, it was to emphasize that
the verticle Phillips curve
May I wish you all an affirmative May Day (a happy May Day would be
a bit much). There are still so many out there that are suffering
from the ravages of capitalism that they deserve our sympathy, but
more than that, our organized help.
At the moment we are battling the ravages of nature, the
In his section on primitive accumulation in volume one of Capital,
Marx writes: "The public debt becomes one of the most powerful levers of pof
primitive accumulation The destructive influence that it exercises
on the condition of the wage-labourer concerns us less however, here,
than the
Pen-l-ers,
At a benefit dinner for Canadian Dimension the other night, I was
asked by a retired United Church minister who is now part of a
collective of clergy who publish a progressive newsletter on
social issues, if I could give him the addresses of progressive
web sites (specifically with
I have some difficulty with Wojteck's association of feudal
labour relations with labour abundance. I have always
associated feudal (and other forms of 'unfree' labour) with
labour shortage. to be blunt, the ruling class imposes
'unfree' labour bondage because 'free' labour is too
expensive.
A quick check of th World Fact Book shows that, of all the
major industrial (G7 and OECD) countries, Canada has the lowest
percent of military expenditure as % of GDP with one exception,
Japan. (Canada, 1.6%: Japan 1.0 %). Perhaps this is not
insignificant as I suggested in my post, but it is
But Tom, what you quote Alexa as saying is good social democratic
stuff -- make the capitalist system work properly through
redistribution, sound fiscal and monetary policy, and the provision
of a secure social wage. You are criticizing her for not being
a socialist. But the CCF abandoned any
I apologize if I offended Tom by my somewhat immoderate response
to his posting. For Sid's benefit, I will quote the original comment
that prompted my frustrated response.
Here in Canada, the social-democratic NDP abstains from even its own
social-democratic, electoral politics in a vain attempt
I find Walker's denounceations from on high of the NDP's current
election platform and position within the on going debate to be both
uninformed and counterproductive. As one of many economists across the
country that was involved, to a greater or lesser extent, in developing
the alternative
Max, in his response to my request for references in Marx to
war --- public debt --- exploitation of workers --- primitive
accumulation implies disagreement with Marx and the relationship
of war to public debt and defends public debt contracted to finance
social services.
I should point out my
Pen-l-ers,
I will be debating current proposals to reform the Canadian Pension
Plan on TV tomorrow evening. The argument for 'reform' I believe
is similar to that for privatizing the US social security system
based on (inaccurate) claims that the present system is bankrupt,
non-sustainable,
I would have thought that the term "first nation" referred
more to the collective groups (i.e. the tribal councils are
refered to as "first nations" as in the Manitoba "Assembly
of First Nations". Here I would think that the term
aboriginal (rather than indiginous) is in common use to
refer to
Some time ago (a year?) someone posted (Doug?) a response
by David Card to the critique that two other economists
had given to _Myth and Measurement_. Unfortunately, I did
not save the response and now I have need of it to counter
claims by a neo-right critique of minimum wages who is
claiming
Thanks to all the pen-l-ers who responded to my
request, particularly to Bill Lear who posted me
Card's response.
Paul
Paul Phillips,
Economics,
University of Manitoba
Max talks about the conflict between the coal miners
and ecologists in the US. Here in Canada, there has
been a major conflict between loggers and ecologists,
particularly in BC where the forest industry is the
key to the provincial economy.
This has led to major problems for the NDP both
Just thought you might like to know, Krugman was on CBC national
this morning explaining the Asian Crisis. He said it was all
due to nepotism and corruption of Asian society. The nephew of
a dictator will set up a bank or a company and everybody will
lend to him because the loan is, in effect,
For those of you who appreciated "the
Full Monty", let me highly recommend
another British film in the same genre --
"Brassed Off" about the closure of a
coal pit and the performance of the
collery band. It isn't quite as funny
but it is more explicitly political.
Paul Phillips,
Economics,
Barkely and Robin,
Correct me if I am off track here, but if permits are
distributed free (based on some past pattern), or if they
are initially priced below social cost, and then a
tradeable permit market created, does this not act as
a barrier to the entry of new firms who must buy up
permits
Jim writes to the effect that US corporations only served
the US market up to the 1930s. I suggest he look at Mira
Wilkins work on the MNC. American corporations began to
invade Canada in the last decade of the 19th C. (See also
Southard et al., Canadian American Business which was, if I
It has struck me somewhat odd in this exchange that nobody
has mentioned Canada which shares a more European political
system with the American geographical-class structure.
I would suggest that the continued existence of a viable
social democratic party and its regional electoral success
at
I don't know where Nathan Newman gets his Canadian political
information from, but his post exhibits a great ignorance of
Canadian politics, history and immigration experience.
Unfortunately, I don't have the time to try to educate him
at this time but perhaps some time in the future
Paul
I think a couple of weeks ago Barkley posted something
about Yugoslavia and market socialism which prompted a
spirited response from somebody that Yugoslav socialism
was an 'oxymoron' because Yugoslavia was not democratic
and therefore could not be socialist. Unfortunately, (as I
indicated
Doug raises an interesting question. He is being charged $45
dollars for each Canadian$ cheque he clears. Now, of course,
the cost of clearing those cheques (thanks to modern technology)
approaches zero. So someone is ripping him (and many others of
us) off. Why? And why do we accept it.
I don't know when Boddhisatva was last in Canada,
but at least here in Winnipeg, the percentate of aboriginal
peoples in population is approximately equal to the percentage
of blacks in the american population -- and this does not include
the peoples of east asian origin -- Filipinos, Vietnamese,
I have a proposal for Barkley: We invite leaders
from the Serbs and from Kosovo to join us in a
restaurant in Montreal for an evening with appropriate
amounts of wine (and in my case seafood) and we will
both guarantee peace -- at least for as long as the
wine and seafood lasts. Do you accept
Peter,
Could you please resend your e-mail. It got lost with
a lot of other stuff with my e-mail problems.
Paul
Paul Phillips
Barkley,
I can't remember where I read it -- perhaps Covert Action --
about the US cutting all aid to Yugoslavia in the late 1980s
in an attempt to destabilize the country. The references
sounded genuine and refered to State Department declassified
documents if my memory serves me correctly.
Date:Sun, 29 Mar 98 16:39 LCL
From:PHILLPS
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Kosovo (corrected)
I had trouble with my e-mail and the previous post was cut
off and the last part garbled. So let me please correct it.
But this relates back to Barkley's message. From what I have
been
For the most part I agree with Barkley on his comments
on Kosovo but I would add a few considerations.
1. The most recent crackdown on Albanian
separatists was a result of the killing of 4 (?)
Serbian Police in an ambush. The police
responded by raiding the headquarters of a faction
of the
The Chase Manhattan response boggles the mind as Wojtek
has noted. On reflection I have some advice to Doug that,
rather than annex Canada (which has been the US response
for over a century to the upstart pretentions that some
other people on this continent have that they might
prefer some
The NZ experience is, unfortunately, contagious. What is interesting
is that in Canada the process seems to have been modelled on the
NZ experiment. First, a (perceived) centre left government gets
elected on a moderate, proactive economic program, then manufactures
a phony credit crisis
In the previous postings from Doug et al about the MLR progection
of job opportunities, what they stressed was the 'shit' jobs that
were projected to be created. To me, however, what is even
more frightening is the list of jobs they (it) expects to be
destroyed. This list must be doubly
As many of you might know, Canada is going ahead without the US
to try to negotiate a "free trade" agreement with Chile. Today,
the Canadian LabourCongres and the Central Unitaria de Trabajadores
of Chile issued a joint satement calling for inclusing in any
agreement of clauses "which would
Of course Doug is right, women's average wages have been rising
relative to men's, primarily, as Michael pointed out, because of
the improved 'mix' of women's jobs. But what I was pointing to
was that the projection is for relatively good jobs -- the 'middle'
if you want -- for women to
The last mail I had from Phil (January 30, 1996) was
[EMAIL PROTECTED]. I think this is the same
address that Steve posted.
Paul Phillips
I am afraid that my rather crude attempt at levity on this matter
was taken rather too seriously than I intended by Justin. At the
same time, there was a point behind it. I object to the idea that
property rights are "granted" by the state. Indeed, I would
argue (and this is the point of the
I have to agree totally wil Leo Casey "The notion that property
can be enforced as antything less than a civil right, that is,
within the state, (!!!)is, quite simply, dead wrong." My point
exactly.
And for those of you who don't know about Brolgas (from Barkeley's
post), here is the verse
Pen-lers,
I have a student -- a very good student -- who is looking for a
university to do a graduate degree in. She is interested in a
non-neoclassical approach to environmental economics and
sustainable development. She has a particular interest in
institutional economics as a framework for
At Manitoba we require history of thought at the honours level as a
requirement for an honours degree. Anyone entering the PhD program
is required either to have honours level history or thought and
at least one course in economic history, or if the student doesn't
have them on entry, must take
Ken Hanley posted a negative review of David Bercuson's work yesterday
on the net. I would like to qualify somewhat this view. Bercuson
did some quite excellent work early in his career. He worked with
Kenneth McNaught,a well respected social democratic historian, in
his PhD thesis on the
I have been invited to do an article for the local newspaper on
the pros and cons of payroll taxes and their effects on
employment.
Does anyone on the list have suggestions for studies, articles,
etc. that they could recommend?
Paul Phillips,
University of Manitoba.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I must admit I am a little suprised that Pen-l-ers would be
debating this issue in terms of neoclassical marginal
productivity. This is the equivalent of arguing, what is
the marginal productivity of a mugger? (i.e. someone who has
market power because of some non-market force.)
The moment one
Date:Wed, 18 Jun 97 09:59 LCL
From:PHILLPS
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Political Economy Programs
In response to the falling off of enrollment in economics programs across
Canada and at our university, some of us are pushing for the establishment
of an alternative political
Date:Mon, 23 Jun 97 16:58 LCL
From:PHILLPS
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Progressive Web Sites
The URL for the Cyber Picket Line is Http://www.cf.ac.uk/ccin/union/
I have only had time to take a cursury look at it and it seems that
some of the pages are still under construction (I
In my attempt to be both brief and trenchant, I seem to have
confused Gil with respect to my use of power as the determinant
of executive incomes and the uselessness of the neoclassical
framework to try to justify CEO's pay and perks. I will try
to be more clear in the following elaboration.
Doug,
But that was my point. If capital is expropriating human capital
productivity, the K/Y ratio would be low, but so would wages -- but
the HumanK/Y would be high, relative to Europe and Japan, n'est pas?
Paul
Paul Phillips,
Economics,
University of Manitoba
Sorry about the duplication of my last two posts. The e-mail was
down here at my university for a day and when it came back up it did
not send my posts. As a result I resent them and then the computer
sent the others as well. Ah well !!!
Paul
Paul Phillips,
Economics,
University of Manitoba
The URL for the Cyber Picket Line is Http://www.cf.ac.uk/ccin/union/
I have only had time to take a cursury look at it and it seems that
some of the pages are still under construction (I checked the Slovenian
link and the page came up blank for example.) However, as a source for
world union
Doug,
Could not there be an additional explanation in the so-called
Leontieff paradox -- that the US exports labour intensive goods
because the labour embodies a great deal of 'human capital'. That
is, is it not possible that when human capital is added to physical
capital, the K/Y ratio
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