date:20090119


On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 6:05 PM, walterbyrd walterb...@iname.com wrote:

 And if so, why?

yes, so does php, your point?

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hasattr and context object

2009-01-19 Thread mk



In interactive debugger:

  hasattr(c,'name')
True
  hasattr(c,'nafssadffa')
True

Huh? Why does hasattr return True for attributes that clearly don't 
exist in c?

On related note, how to check for existence of attributes in c in 
templates? I want to do smth like:

%if c.hasattr('name'):
  c.name has no attribute 'name'
%else:
  c.name has attribute ${c.name}
%endif

Regards,
mk


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Re: hasattr and context object

2009-01-19 Thread mk


P.S.

If I try:

%if c.hasattr('name'):

in template, I get:

TypeError: 'str' object is not callable

Does that mean that c.hasattr tries to call 'name' for some reason?


Regards,
mk


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Redirect with additional headers for ajax

2009-01-19 Thread Tomasz Narloch


I use ajax for few pages in my app.
Sometimes I need to redirect page from example: index to index2
The problem is when I get index with request.is_xhr == True and have to 
redirect to index 2.

In next page request.is_xhr == False. 
jQuery do not add 'X-Requested-With': XMLHttpRequest' to redirected page.

Is some possibility to add headers with XMLHttpRequest to method of 
controller:
[...]
# add header
return redirect_to('page/index2')

and then would be works when I check request.is_xhr?

Best Regards,
Tomek

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Re: hasattr and context object

2009-01-19 Thread mk



OK this works only after adding config['pylons.strict_c'] = True to 
environment.py:

%if not hasattr(c, 'name'):
  c.name has no attribute 'name'
%else:
  c.name has attribute ${c.name}
%endif

I still don't get why hasattr on c has to return True if pylons.strict_c 
is turned off (well I do understand that if strict_c is turned off you 
can enter c.anynonexistentname in template and get empty string, but is 
it strictly necessary?)

Regards,
mki


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Re: Redirect with additional headers for ajax

2009-01-19 Thread Gael Pasgrimaud


Hi,

You can do what you want with the response. In pylons, both request
and response are webob objects
(http://pythonpaste.org/webob/reference.html#id3)

from pylons import response

response.headers['Blah'] = 'blah'

Regards,

--
Gael

On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Tomasz Narloch toma...@wp.pl wrote:

 I use ajax for few pages in my app.
 Sometimes I need to redirect page from example: index to index2
 The problem is when I get index with request.is_xhr == True and have to
 redirect to index 2.

 In next page request.is_xhr == False.
 jQuery do not add 'X-Requested-With': XMLHttpRequest' to redirected page.

 Is some possibility to add headers with XMLHttpRequest to method of
 controller:
 [...]
 # add header
 return redirect_to('page/index2')

 and then would be works when I check request.is_xhr?

 Best Regards,
 Tomek

 


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Webhelpers question

2009-01-19 Thread Josh Winslow


Is there anyway to output forms fields without the table structure?
Right now when I do this:

snipping leading template stuff

${h.field(
Document Title,
h.text(name='title'),
required=True
)}

${h.field(
Department,
h.text(name='department'),
required=True
)}

snip

I get:

td class=label valign=topspan class=required*/
spanlabelDocument Title:/label/td

td class=field colspan=2 valign=topinput id=title
name=title type=text //td
/tr
tr class=field
td class=label valign=topspan class=required*/
spanlabelDepartment:/label/td
td class=field colspan=2 valign=topinput id=department
name=department type=text //td
/tr

I'd rather have something like this:
labelspan class=required*/spanDocument Title:/labelinput
id=title name=title type=text /
labelspan class=required*/spanDepartment:/labelinput
id=department name=department type=text /

I looked at the webhelper docs at http://pylonshq.com/WebHelpers/ but
they seem really out of date.
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how to - read uploaded images more than 1x


this is annoying me...

just realized that some code has been failing because it is reading an
image upload twice.
the first time is fine.
the second time is empty.

it seems this is because the file is stored as a socket._fileobject
( http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/stdlib/socket._fileobject-class.html
) , and after being read the pointer ( obj._consumed ) is set to the
length of the file.  socket._fileobject doesn't accept seek() , so i
can't manually reset this.

anyone have a clue what to do ?
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Re: how to - read uploaded images more than 1x


just to add...

i'm currently using a workaround of reading this into a
cStringIO.StringIO object that supports seek(0) -- i just think its a
little silly that I need to do that.
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Re: Django or Pylons - comparison details

2009-01-19 Thread Thomas G. Willis


Being a pylons newb myself, the first thing I did was write auth and
registration. It took a day.Granted I wasn't trying to support every
auth method I could think of like authkit does,but  I learned lots.If
you want auth (and other things) rolled in use use turbogears. But
getting basic authentication and registration working is not that big
of a deal.

On Dec 8 2008, 8:50 am, Jorge Vargas jorge.var...@gmail.com wrote:
 that is because
 a) the author or authkit is never around
 b) authkit is way over complicated
 c) autukit sucks in other ways
 d) all of the above.

 that said, I do think that a default auth should be added to pylons,
 as it's a pretty common feeture but that's another discussion. if
 you hate your tool then change it. Now don't come back complaining
 that django wants you to do things in X,Y and Z way, and even if
 that's bad/dumb/not-the-best you will expend way way more time trying
 to get around it.

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Re: Django or Pylons - comparison details

2009-01-19 Thread Colin Flanagan


The SQLAlchemy argument is a very compelling one.  I have an application that, 
while being a CMS, has heavily relational data.  I was urged by different 
people to do it either in Django or Plone, but went with Pylons. My domain 
objects are far easier to work with, though I did suffer from the 
authentication layer and a few other things I had to build from scratch.

Django can use SQLAlchemy, but by doing so you pretty much nullify a lot of the 
things that are unique to that framework like their automatic admin 
interfaces.  Django's  object generation came nowhere near understanding my 
moderately-complicated data model and would have been much more difficult to 
develop with, as compared to Pylons with SQLAlchemy.

On another note:
I find it interesting that a lot of people recommend Django for CMS-type 
applications.  I would think that Plone might be more far more suitable given 
that:
1. your data fits well with the hierarchical structure of the ZODB
2. your content is comparable to the content types already established in Plone
3. you don't have any legacy data or need to integrate with other systems
4. you don't need to do lots of custom UI/presentation layer work

I'm curious if Django's CMS reputation comes from the fact that it's used by a 
lot of newspapers and content providers, or if there really is something that 
makes it advantageous over other frameworks.



- Original Message 
From: chris.mol...@gmail.com chris.mol...@gmail.com
To: pylons-discuss pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 11:17:23 AM
Subject: Re: Django or Pylons - comparison details


That's it.. that's the reason to use Pylons:  SQLAlchemy.  If you need
to actually use a database correctly (which I'm guessing that you do),
then you need to use Pylons.  The db framework that ships with Django
tries to be functionally compatible with RoR-style development...
which is ok, as long you don't use your DB for anything more than
'select.. '.  Totally brain-dead, IMO...and frankly targeted for
people w/o DB experience.

On Dec 6 2008, 4:42 pm, Noah Gift noah.g...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 7:39 AM, Ben Bangert b...@groovie.org wrote:
  On Dec 6, 2008, at 9:31 AM, zunzun wrote:

   Comparison before starting a project, used to decide which framework
  to use.
  Django: according tohttp://groups.google.com/group/django-users/about
  Members 12,016
  Group Activity is High
  Pylons: according tohttp://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss/about
  Members: 1,748
  Group Activity is Low

  Really? That's how you decide? Then I believe you *must* choose PHP. It
  completely dwarfs Django and Python altogether, its the only choice really
  if you want to determine framework based on user-base (popularity). :)

   Also, Django just made a major release.  The last (non-security fix)
  Pylons release is over a year old.  Guido van Rossum has blessed
  Django here:
 http://www.djangoproject.com/weblog/2006/aug/07/guidointerview/

  Before that release, they hadn't made a release in almost 2 years, and
  actually told everyone to run production websites on the development
  branch... Pylons 0.9.7 RC4 came out about 2 weeks ago. Guido is not a
  veteran web developer, nor does he actually use any of Django beyond Django
  templates, his apps have been generally built with pure WSGI and Django
  templates, the recent port of his Mondrian to a Django app was prolly his
  first actual Django project.

   Seems like I should use Django?  Or should it be Pylons instead?  Is a
  long-planned major release immediately forthcoming?

  What kind of app/site are you building? What tools matter to you? Do you
  think you'll need to scale heavily? Are you talking to a legacy database?
  etc.

  Those questions are the ones you should be asking yourself, then seeing
  which framework has the tools you need to accomplish your task. Otherwise,
  merely posting some mail list numbers and that Guido likes Django seems to
  be awfully trollish as it doesn't seem to be a serious attempt to evaluate
  the frameworks benefits for the task you're actually trying to complete.

  I'd highly suggest searching the mail list for some previous threads on the
  subject, as this doesn't really need rehashing again.
 http://markmail.org/search/?q=list%3Apylons+django+pylons

 I wouldn't necessarily agree that it doesn't need rehashing, at least from a
 marketing and documentation perspective.  I just talked with some co-workers
 last week, that are very experienced Python programmers and they asked me
 why they hadn't heard about Pylon's much.  One person mentioned he looked at
 it about a year and half ago, and decided to go with Django.  Now he ran
 into a problem that only SQLAlchemy can solve, and after he went through the
 new pylons book online he was quite impressed.

 In my opinion Pylons and Django solve two different problems, although there
 is some overlap, but even still many people don't know this.  For

Re: hasattr and context object

2009-01-19 Thread Mark Hildreth


hasattr returns true because of the way that tmpl_context (c) is implemented.

https://www.knowledgetap.com/hg/pylons-dev/file/98d7b9278acd/pylons/util.py#l115

You have ContextObj, and AttribSafeContextObj. By default, Pylons uses
AttribSafeContextObj. Looking at the code, you can see that the
__getattr__ method is overridden. This returns an empty string. For
more infoon __getattr__, see here:

http://docs.python.org/reference/datamodel.html#object.__getattr__

Now, hasattr returns true because, no matter what name you put, if it
is not found on the actual context, it will still be found since we
are by default returning an empty string.

When you use strict_c, you are using the ContextObj, which does not
override __getattr__, and as such has the default behavior of raising
an exception as well as returning false from hasattr when the
attribute is not found.

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Re: memcached beaker support


any chance the next version of beaker will be better integrated with
pylons so it doesn't flush to the datastore on ever save()
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Re: Is Django more popular than Pylons?


On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 4:05 PM, walterbyrd walterb...@iname.com wrote:

 And if so, why?

Everybody who uses Pylons knows that other frameworks exist and had
maybe tried one or two others, but has made a conscious choice that
they like Pylons' style better.   A lot of Django fans have done the
same of course, but a lot of other Django fans have not really looked
into any other frameworks, they just came to Django from Rails or PHP
because they heard about it first and didn't look any further.


-- 
Mike Orr sluggos...@gmail.com

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use content of variable c in controller through h.url_for

2009-01-19 Thread Michael


Hi,

in an .mako template I can use the global variable c. Is there a way
to call an other controller from the template via h.url_for and still
use the content of the variable c as in the template?
In the called controller c seems to be empty again.

Regards,
Michael

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Cannot use pylons variables under project.lib subdirectory

2009-01-19 Thread Wolverine


Hello.
I've quite standard Pylons project that I'm working on for last few 
months. Recently I've cleaned up the code and created 
project.lib.helperslib subdir where I have created multiple python 
modules with corresponding functions e.g. date.py, buttons.py, links.py, 
etc. When functions were under project.lib.helpers everything worked 
fine. However when I moved those functions to different modules under 
helperslib subdir I cannot use pylons variables anymore. For example. 
When I'm importing config like this:

from pylons import config

or trying to get _() function like this:

from pylons.i18n import _

I'm getting errors like:

  File 
/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/Pylons-0.9.7rc4-py2.5.egg/pylons/i18n/translation.py,
 
line 106, in ugettext   
return 
pylons.translator.ugettext(value)   
  

  File 
/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/Paste-1.7.2-py2.5.egg/paste/registry.py, 
line 137, in __getattr__ 
return getattr(self._current_obj(), 
attr)   
 

  File 
/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/Paste-1.7.2-py2.5.egg/paste/registry.py, 
line 194, in _current_obj
'thread' % 
self.name__)
  

TypeError: No object (name: translator) has been registered for this 
thread

Also. When I'm trying to use config.get('value') I'm getting null 
values. It worked fine with Pylons 0.9.6.1, but after updating to Pylons 
0.9.7rc-4 it's not working anymore. Unfortunatelly I can't revert back 
to older version of Pylons, so I'm stuck. I thought maybe importing 
load_environment would do the trick, but unfortunatelly no.

When I'm importing it like this:

from project.config.environment import load_environment

I'm getting this error:

  File 
/home/wolverine/development/project/project/lib/helperslib/date.py, 
line 6, in module
from project.config.environment import load_environment
ImportError: cannot import name load_environment

Honestly. I'm stuck. I was looking for the answer on google and google 
groups, but I'm out of luck.

Could someone shed some light on this issue?
I would greatly appreciate your help.

Best regards,
Karol Tomala


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Re: hasattr and context object

2009-01-19 Thread Ross Lawley

Have you got strict_c set to False?
http://wiki.pylonshq.com/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=11174779#What%27snewinPylons0.9.7?-ImplicitBehaviorchanges

On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 12:19 PM, mk mrk...@gmail.com wrote:



 In interactive debugger:

   hasattr(c,'name')
 True
   hasattr(c,'nafssadffa')
 True

 Huh? Why does hasattr return True for attributes that clearly don't
 exist in c?

 On related note, how to check for existence of attributes in c in
 templates? I want to do smth like:

 %if c.hasattr('name'):
  c.name has no attribute 'name'
 %else:
  c.name has attribute ${c.name}
 %endif

 Regards,
 mk


 


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Re: Webhelpers question


On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 7:39 AM, Josh Winslow jwins...@gmail.com wrote:

 Is there anyway to output forms fields without the table structure?
 Right now when I do this:

 snipping leading template stuff

 ${h.field(
Document Title,
h.text(name='title'),
required=True
 )}

The field helper was added to WebHelpers 0.6.3 as an experimental
module, and was removed in WebHelpers 0.6.4 for being insufficiently
robust.  There is no consensus on the best way to lay out form fields.
Tables are evil but divs have browser-specific issues.  And I can't
properly set label for= because field() doesn't know what text()'s
ID is unless it's specified redundantly, and making field() call
text() turns out to be just as problematic, and parsing text()'s
output is even worse, etc.  Templates work better for field layout
than WebHelpers can hope to do.

So in the end I made a less ambitions helper, title() (in
webhelpers.html.tags), which does part of the layout (placing the
field title in required or not-required style), and just punts on the
ID issue by taking a ``label_for`` argument.  This should work under
all layout strategies.

There's another field() in the Pylons book.  That one was originally
intended for WebHelpers but ended up in a separate package instead,
FormBuild.

-- 
Mike Orr sluggos...@gmail.com

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Re: Django or Pylons - comparison details

2009-01-19 Thread Noah Gift


On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 5:28 AM, Jonathan Vanasco jonat...@findmeon.com wrote:

 Django is like Rails -- it forces you into building certain types of
 apps with certain styles.

 If you build a Django app , you're pretty much married to it -- and
 can expect it to work much like other apps.  That's not necessarily a
 bad thing.

 Pylons  SqlAlchemy offer a lot more control.

 One of my websites is 90% ModPerl with 10% pylons offloaded ; we use
 the same tables  db seamlessly.  I don't know if its possible in
 django - but it was too hard to get done.

 Another one of my projects is 60% Pylons, 20% PHP and 20% MovableType
 (Perl).  Again, Pylons power and flexibility let me seamlessly get all
 of them working together.

 ( btw , we're *finally* about to release a web framework toolkit based
 on Pylons that lets people do all this .  huge product launches in the
 next 6 weeks after 1yr of development and testing ).

Jonathan,

This seems like a very interesting set of projects.  I wonder if there
is somewhere people could here, customer stories like this in one
spot.  I had no idea people where doing this with Django.


 


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Re: Cannot use pylons variables under project.lib subdirectory


On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 4:52 AM, Wolverine ktom...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello.
 I've quite standard Pylons project that I'm working on for last few
 months. Recently I've cleaned up the code and created
 project.lib.helperslib subdir where I have created multiple python
 modules with corresponding functions e.g. date.py, buttons.py, links.py,
 etc. When functions were under project.lib.helpers everything worked
 fine. However when I moved those functions to different modules under
 helperslib subdir I cannot use pylons variables anymore. For example.
 When I'm importing config like this:


 TypeError: No object (name: translator) has been registered for this
 thread

It doesn't matter where the helpers are defined.  What matters is the
environment when they're called.  The Pylons special globals (c,
translator, etc) are valid only when a request is active.  If you want
to use them in other contexts, you'd have to put fake objects onto
them.  The testing thread today had an example.

 Also. When I'm trying to use config.get('value') I'm getting null
 values. It worked fine with Pylons 0.9.6.1, but after updating to Pylons
 0.9.7rc-4 it's not working anymore.

What does working fine mean.  'config.get'nonexistent_variable)'
should return None.  Like the other special globals, pylons.config is
a StackedObjectProxy which has a value pushed onto it at the beginning
of each request, and popped at the end.  However, unlike the others,
the configuration is also pushed at the beginning of the application
so it's available outside a request.  However, this happens at a
certain point, after load_environment is finished I think.

 When I'm importing it like this:

 from project.config.environment import load_environment

 I'm getting this error:

  File
 /home/wolverine/development/project/project/lib/helperslib/date.py,
 line 6, in module
from project.config.environment import load_environment
 ImportError: cannot import name load_environment

Import errors can happen for a lot of reasons.  Can you import
anything from the project?

However, a helper module should not be calling load_environment.
Let's start from the beginning.  Where are you calling this date
function?  Does the function have to use the Pylons globals directly,
or could you pass the needed values as arguments?  Most helpers do not
use the globals directly, precisely because that limits where the
helpers can be used.

-- 
Mike Orr sluggos...@gmail.com

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Re: use content of variable c in controller through h.url_for


On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 2:54 AM, Michael m...@micm.eu wrote:

 Hi,

 in an .mako template I can use the global variable c. Is there a way
 to call an other controller from the template via h.url_for and still
 use the content of the variable c as in the template?
 In the called controller c seems to be empty again.

When you go to another controller via h.url_for, it's a separate
request with its own 'c' context.

If you want to call a controller action from a different controller,
you'd instantiate it and call it.  But Pylons does so much behind the
scenes to set up the controller that I don't know if that would work.
It would be better to put common code into a private method in a
superclass controller or in a separate function.

-- 
Mike Orr sluggos...@gmail.com

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Re: Django or Pylons - comparison details

2009-01-19 Thread Lawrence Oluyede


On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 6:20 PM, Colin Flanagan quadvill...@yahoo.com wrote:
 I'm curious if Django's CMS reputation comes from the fact that it's used by 
 a lot of newspapers and content providers, or if there really is something 
 that makes it advantageous over other frameworks.

Django's admin is very handy for content based sites. We're developing
the Italian PyCon website with Django. While we develop the webiste
some people can upload and review documents, rollback and stuff like
that.

Very nice. Nothing you can't code in Pylons or CGI with C, but it's
nice to have it for free.

-- 
Lawrence, http://oluyede.org - http://twitter.com/lawrenceoluyede
It is difficult to get a man to understand
something when his salary depends on not
understanding it - Upton Sinclair

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Re: hasattr and context object


On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 9:44 AM, Mark Hildreth
mark.k.hildr...@gmail.com wrote:

 hasattr returns true because of the way that tmpl_context (c) is 
 implemented.

 https://www.knowledgetap.com/hg/pylons-dev/file/98d7b9278acd/pylons/util.py#l115

 You have ContextObj, and AttribSafeContextObj. By default, Pylons uses
 AttribSafeContextObj. Looking at the code, you can see that the
 __getattr__ method is overridden. This returns an empty string. For
 more infoon __getattr__, see here:

 http://docs.python.org/reference/datamodel.html#object.__getattr__

 Now, hasattr returns true because, no matter what name you put, if it
 is not found on the actual context, it will still be found since we
 are by default returning an empty string.

 When you use strict_c, you are using the ContextObj, which does not
 override __getattr__, and as such has the default behavior of raising
 an exception as well as returning false from hasattr when the
 attribute is not found.

This is a bit low level for mk's question.  When strict_c is true, 'c'
acts as a normal Python object, raising an error if a nonexistent
attribute is accessed.  When strict_c is false, nonexistent attributes
return the empty string.  This is partly to imitate other
frameworks/languages, partly for backward compatibility, and partly
because the main developers like it that way.  I would argue for the
opposite because it's hard to notice or debug a variable that
magically defaulted to something unexpected.

'c' -- as well as the other context globals (request, response,
session, cache, app_globals, and config) -- are StackedObjectProxy
objects.  This allows multiple instances of Pylons applications to
exist in the same process and share the module globals.  With
StackedObjectProxy, 'c' is the proxy object, and 'c._current_obj()' is
the actual value that was pushed onto it.  Normally the proxy calls
._current_obj() behind the scenes so you don't have to, but in certain
cases it doesn't.  'c.hasattr' doesn't; that's why you're getting the
proxy object instead.  'dir(c)' also doesn't, so you have to call
'dir(c._current_obj())' if you want to know which attributes have been
set.  I suppose you could say that dict access is transparent while
method calls aren't, but that may not cover all the cases.

-- 
Mike Orr sluggos...@gmail.com

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Re: Django or Pylons - comparison details

2009-01-19 Thread Wyatt Baldwin


On Jan 19, 9:20 am, Colin Flanagan quadvill...@yahoo.com wrote:
 The SQLAlchemy argument is a very compelling one.  I have an application 
 that, while being a CMS, has heavily relational data.  I was urged by 
 different people to do it either in Django or Plone, but went with Pylons. My 
 domain objects are far easier to work with, though I did suffer from the 
 authentication layer and a few other things I had to build from scratch.

 Django can use SQLAlchemy, but by doing so you pretty much nullify a lot of 
 the things that are unique to that framework like their automatic admin 
 interfaces.  Django's  object generation came nowhere near understanding my 
 moderately-complicated data model and would have been much more difficult to 
 develop with, as compared to Pylons with SQLAlchemy.

 On another note:
 I find it interesting that a lot of people recommend Django for CMS-type 
 applications.  I would think that Plone might be more far more suitable given 
 that:
 1. your data fits well with the hierarchical structure of the ZODB
 2. your content is comparable to the content types already established in 
 Plone
 3. you don't have any legacy data or need to integrate with other systems
 4. you don't need to do lots of custom UI/presentation layer work

I'm no Plone expert, but I don't think #4 is a problem for Plone. I
think there are actually quite a few Plone sites with custom UIs (my
company's new Intranet being one of them).

And just to add another voice to this SQLAlchemy hurrah, like Colin,
I'm also doing (complex) GIS stuff with PostGIS ( Shapely  GeoJSON 
PyProj). Having a bit of experience with both Django and Rails, I
don't know how I'd accomplish with their ORMs what I can with SA. I'm
not saying it's not possible, but it seems nowhere near as
straightforward or flexible.

I'm also using Pylons/SA with a big, ugly, legacy Oracle schema. Fun,
fun, fun.

PS If anyone needs an SA type def for PostGIS geometry columns, give
me a shout. I have one version based on PCL and another on Shapely.
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Re: Django or Pylons - comparison details

2009-01-19 Thread Wyatt Baldwin


On Jan 19, 1:29 pm, Wyatt Baldwin wyatt.lee.bald...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Jan 19, 9:20 am, Colin Flanagan quadvill...@yahoo.com wrote:

  The SQLAlchemy argument is a very compelling one.  I have an application 
  that, while being a CMS, has heavily relational data.  I was urged by 
  different people to do it either in Django or Plone, but went with Pylons. 
  My domain objects are far easier to work with, though I did suffer from the 
  authentication layer and a few other things I had to build from scratch.

  Django can use SQLAlchemy, but by doing so you pretty much nullify a lot of 
  the things that are unique to that framework like their automatic admin 
  interfaces.  Django's  object generation came nowhere near understanding 
  my moderately-complicated data model and would have been much more 
  difficult to develop with, as compared to Pylons with SQLAlchemy.

  On another note:
  I find it interesting that a lot of people recommend Django for CMS-type 
  applications.  I would think that Plone might be more far more suitable 
  given that:
  1. your data fits well with the hierarchical structure of the ZODB
  2. your content is comparable to the content types already established in 
  Plone
  3. you don't have any legacy data or need to integrate with other systems
  4. you don't need to do lots of custom UI/presentation layer work

 I'm no Plone expert, but I don't think #4 is a problem for Plone. I
 think there are actually quite a few Plone sites with custom UIs (my
 company's new Intranet being one of them).

 And just to add another voice to this SQLAlchemy hurrah, like Colin,
 I'm also doing (complex) GIS stuff with PostGIS ( Shapely  GeoJSON 
 PyProj). Having a bit of experience with both Django and Rails, I
 don't know how I'd accomplish with their ORMs what I can with SA. I'm
 not saying it's not possible, but it seems nowhere near as
 straightforward or flexible.

s/Colin/Chris
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Re: Django or Pylons - comparison details

2009-01-19 Thread Wyatt Baldwin


On Jan 19, 12:26 pm, Noah Gift noah.g...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 5:28 AM, Jonathan Vanasco jonat...@findmeon.com 
 wrote:

  Django is like Rails -- it forces you into building certain types of
  apps with certain styles.

  If you build a Django app , you're pretty much married to it -- and
  can expect it to work much like other apps.  That's not necessarily a
  bad thing.

  Pylons  SqlAlchemy offer a lot more control.

  One of my websites is 90% ModPerl with 10% pylons offloaded ; we use
  the same tables  db seamlessly.  I don't know if its possible in
  django - but it was too hard to get done.

  Another one of my projects is 60% Pylons, 20% PHP and 20% MovableType
  (Perl).  Again, Pylons power and flexibility let me seamlessly get all
  of them working together.

  ( btw , we're *finally* about to release a web framework toolkit based
  on Pylons that lets people do all this .  huge product launches in the
  next 6 weeks after 1yr of development and testing ).

 Jonathan,

 This seems like a very interesting set of projects.  I wonder if there
 is somewhere people could here, customer stories like this in one
 spot.  I had no idea people where doing this with Django.

With Django or with Pylons?
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Re: Django or Pylons - comparison details

2009-01-19 Thread Eric Lemoine

On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 10:29 PM, Wyatt Baldwin
wyatt.lee.bald...@gmail.com wrote:

On Jan 19, 9:20 am, Colin Flanagan quadvill...@yahoo.com wrote:
The SQLAlchemy argument is a very compelling one. I have an application
that, while being a CMS, has heavily relational data. I was urged by
different people to do it either in Django or Plone, but went with Pylons.
My domain objects are far easier to work with, though I did suffer from the
authentication layer and a few other things I had to build from scratch.

Django can use SQLAlchemy, but by doing so you pretty much nullify a lot of
the things that are unique to that framework like their automatic admin
interfaces. Django's object generation came nowhere near understanding my
moderately-complicated data model and would have been much more difficult to
develop with, as compared to Pylons with SQLAlchemy.

On another note:
I find it interesting that a lot of people recommend Django for CMS-type
applications. I would think that Plone might be more far more suitable
given that:
1. your data fits well with the hierarchical structure of the ZODB
2. your content is comparable to the content types already established in
Plone
3. you don't have any legacy data or need to integrate with other systems
4. you don't need to do lots of custom UI/presentation layer work

I'm no Plone expert, but I don't think #4 is a problem for Plone. I
think there are actually quite a few Plone sites with custom UIs (my
company's new Intranet being one of them).

And just to add another voice to this SQLAlchemy hurrah, like Colin,
I'm also doing (complex) GIS stuff with PostGIS ( Shapely GeoJSON
PyProj). Having a bit of experience with both Django and Rails, I
don't know how I'd accomplish with their ORMs what I can with SA. I'm
not saying it's not possible, but it seems nowhere near as
straightforward or flexible.

I'm also using Pylons/SA with a big, ugly, legacy Oracle schema. Fun,
fun, fun.

PS If anyone needs an SA type def for PostGIS geometry columns, give
me a shout. I have one version based on PCL and another on Shapely.

Hi,

We also have this in MapFish.
https://trac.mapfish.org/trac/mapfish/browser/trunk/MapFish/server/python/mapfish/sqlalchemygeom.py

--
Eric

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Re: Django or Pylons - comparison details

2009-01-19 Thread Noah Gift


On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 10:40 AM, Wyatt Baldwin
wyatt.lee.bald...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Jan 19, 12:26 pm, Noah Gift noah.g...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 5:28 AM, Jonathan Vanasco jonat...@findmeon.com 
 wrote:

  Django is like Rails -- it forces you into building certain types of
  apps with certain styles.

  If you build a Django app , you're pretty much married to it -- and
  can expect it to work much like other apps.  That's not necessarily a
  bad thing.

  Pylons  SqlAlchemy offer a lot more control.

  One of my websites is 90% ModPerl with 10% pylons offloaded ; we use
  the same tables  db seamlessly.  I don't know if its possible in
  django - but it was too hard to get done.

  Another one of my projects is 60% Pylons, 20% PHP and 20% MovableType
  (Perl).  Again, Pylons power and flexibility let me seamlessly get all
  of them working together.

  ( btw , we're *finally* about to release a web framework toolkit based
  on Pylons that lets people do all this .  huge product launches in the
  next 6 weeks after 1yr of development and testing ).

 Jonathan,

 This seems like a very interesting set of projects.  I wonder if there
 is somewhere people could here, customer stories like this in one
 spot.  I had no idea people where doing this with Django.

 With Django or with Pylons?

Ah, I meant Pylons :)  Maybe this could be done officially or unofficially.


 


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Re: Django or Pylons - comparison details


On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Lawrence Oluyede l.oluy...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 6:20 PM, Colin Flanagan quadvill...@yahoo.com wrote:
 I'm curious if Django's CMS reputation comes from the fact that it's used by 
 a lot of newspapers and content providers, or if there really is something 
 that makes it advantageous over other frameworks.

 Django's admin is very handy for content based sites. We're developing
 the Italian PyCon website with Django. While we develop the webiste
 some people can upload and review documents, rollback and stuff like
 that.

 Very nice. Nothing you can't code in Pylons or CGI with C, but it's
 nice to have it for free.

you should try out Catwalk2, tgext.admin and/or Rum. They are
currently the competitors in TurboGears2 regarding this playing field.

Catwalk2 and tgext.admin are build on top of Turbogears so you will
need that dependency (totally worth it) or if you don't want that then
 Rum is a wsgi app

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Catwalk
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/tgext.admin/
http://docs.python-rum.org/user/install.html

Note: the author is catwalk and tgext.admin is the same guy, he is
currently considering of folding one of the projects into the other as
at this moment their only difference is that Catwalk2 is equivalent to
django's autodiscovery while tgext.admin is the customizable by
code type of thing
Note2: I haven't used any of the 3 outside a turbogears project, but
they will work in parallel

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Re: Django or Pylons - comparison details


On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Wyatt Baldwin
wyatt.lee.bald...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Jan 19, 9:20 am, Colin Flanagan quadvill...@yahoo.com wrote:
 The SQLAlchemy argument is a very compelling one.  I have an application 
 that, while being a CMS, has heavily relational data.  I was urged by 
 different people to do it either in Django or Plone, but went with Pylons. 
 My domain objects are far easier to work with, though I did suffer from the 
 authentication layer and a few other things I had to build from scratch.

 Django can use SQLAlchemy, but by doing so you pretty much nullify a lot of 
 the things that are unique to that framework like their automatic admin 
 interfaces.  Django's  object generation came nowhere near understanding my 
 moderately-complicated data model and would have been much more difficult to 
 develop with, as compared to Pylons with SQLAlchemy.

 On another note:
 I find it interesting that a lot of people recommend Django for CMS-type 
 applications.  I would think that Plone might be more far more suitable 
 given that:
 1. your data fits well with the hierarchical structure of the ZODB
 2. your content is comparable to the content types already established in 
 Plone
 3. you don't have any legacy data or need to integrate with other systems
 4. you don't need to do lots of custom UI/presentation layer work

 I'm no Plone expert, but I don't think #4 is a problem for Plone. I
 think there are actually quite a few Plone sites with custom UIs (my
 company's new Intranet being one of them).

Plone is certainly very complete.  Its main problem is its Zope 2
legacy, which many people see as baggage.  But if you ignore that,
it's got many many things a content-based site needs.  Pylons is
clearly better for a calculation-based site with a lot of little
pieces of data, although of course you can build any site in either.
Django is in between, with some CMS-handy features built in, yet also
capable of running a calculation-based site, but is perhaps not as
attuned to it as Pylons is.

 PS If anyone needs an SA type def for PostGIS geometry columns, give
 me a shout. I have one version based on PCL and another on Shapely.

I don't know this, but there are open-source GIS groups who probably do.
http://groups.google.com/group/cugos

-- 
Mike Orr sluggos...@gmail.com

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Re: Django or Pylons - comparison details


On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Mike Orr sluggos...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Wyatt Baldwin
 wyatt.lee.bald...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Jan 19, 9:20 am, Colin Flanagan quadvill...@yahoo.com wrote:
 The SQLAlchemy argument is a very compelling one.  I have an application 
 that, while being a CMS, has heavily relational data.  I was urged by 
 different people to do it either in Django or Plone, but went with Pylons. 
 My domain objects are far easier to work with, though I did suffer from the 
 authentication layer and a few other things I had to build from scratch.

 Django can use SQLAlchemy, but by doing so you pretty much nullify a lot of 
 the things that are unique to that framework like their automatic admin 
 interfaces.  Django's  object generation came nowhere near understanding 
 my moderately-complicated data model and would have been much more 
 difficult to develop with, as compared to Pylons with SQLAlchemy.

 On another note:
 I find it interesting that a lot of people recommend Django for CMS-type 
 applications.  I would think that Plone might be more far more suitable 
 given that:
 1. your data fits well with the hierarchical structure of the ZODB
 2. your content is comparable to the content types already established in 
 Plone
 3. you don't have any legacy data or need to integrate with other systems
 4. you don't need to do lots of custom UI/presentation layer work

 I'm no Plone expert, but I don't think #4 is a problem for Plone. I
 think there are actually quite a few Plone sites with custom UIs (my
 company's new Intranet being one of them).

 Plone is certainly very complete.  Its main problem is its Zope 2
 legacy, which many people see as baggage.  But if you ignore that,
 it's got many many things a content-based site needs.  Pylons is
 clearly better for a calculation-based site with a lot of little
 pieces of data, although of course you can build any site in either.
 Django is in between, with some CMS-handy features built in, yet also
 capable of running a calculation-based site, but is perhaps not as
 attuned to it as Pylons is.

 PS If anyone needs an SA type def for PostGIS geometry columns, give
 me a shout. I have one version based on PCL and another on Shapely.

 I don't know this, but there are open-source GIS groups who probably do.
 http://groups.google.com/group/cugos

sorry for more TG propaganda, but one of our gsoc projects from last
year was exactly this. I know the author and even though I haven't
used the code for anything real, it looks very nice. His gsoc was
really nice as it was mainly to try to get as much gis stuff working
with tg as possible

overview docs http://turbogears.org/2.0/docs/main/Extensions/Geo/
here is a demo app http://geo.turbogears.org/
and the project page http://code.google.com/p/tgtools/

Now keep in mind this was one of the goals for TG2, let pylons
concentrate on the details of the framework while TG explored the
extensions.

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Re: Django or Pylons - comparison details

2009-01-19 Thread Noah Gift


On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Jorge Vargas jorge.var...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Mike Orr sluggos...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Wyatt Baldwin
 wyatt.lee.bald...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Jan 19, 9:20 am, Colin Flanagan quadvill...@yahoo.com wrote:
 The SQLAlchemy argument is a very compelling one.  I have an application 
 that, while being a CMS, has heavily relational data.  I was urged by 
 different people to do it either in Django or Plone, but went with Pylons. 
 My domain objects are far easier to work with, though I did suffer from 
 the authentication layer and a few other things I had to build from 
 scratch.

 Django can use SQLAlchemy, but by doing so you pretty much nullify a lot 
 of the things that are unique to that framework like their automatic 
 admin interfaces.  Django's  object generation came nowhere near 
 understanding my moderately-complicated data model and would have been 
 much more difficult to develop with, as compared to Pylons with SQLAlchemy.

 On another note:
 I find it interesting that a lot of people recommend Django for CMS-type 
 applications.  I would think that Plone might be more far more suitable 
 given that:
 1. your data fits well with the hierarchical structure of the ZODB
 2. your content is comparable to the content types already established in 
 Plone
 3. you don't have any legacy data or need to integrate with other systems
 4. you don't need to do lots of custom UI/presentation layer work

 I'm no Plone expert, but I don't think #4 is a problem for Plone. I
 think there are actually quite a few Plone sites with custom UIs (my
 company's new Intranet being one of them).

 Plone is certainly very complete.  Its main problem is its Zope 2
 legacy, which many people see as baggage.  But if you ignore that,
 it's got many many things a content-based site needs.  Pylons is
 clearly better for a calculation-based site with a lot of little
 pieces of data, although of course you can build any site in either.
 Django is in between, with some CMS-handy features built in, yet also
 capable of running a calculation-based site, but is perhaps not as
 attuned to it as Pylons is.

 PS If anyone needs an SA type def for PostGIS geometry columns, give
 me a shout. I have one version based on PCL and another on Shapely.

 I don't know this, but there are open-source GIS groups who probably do.
 http://groups.google.com/group/cugos

 sorry for more TG propaganda, but one of our gsoc projects from last
 year was exactly this. I know the author and even though I haven't
 used the code for anything real, it looks very nice. His gsoc was
 really nice as it was mainly to try to get as much gis stuff working
 with tg as possible

 overview docs http://turbogears.org/2.0/docs/main/Extensions/Geo/
 here is a demo app http://geo.turbogears.org/
 and the project page http://code.google.com/p/tgtools/

 Now keep in mind this was one of the goals for TG2, let pylons
 concentrate on the details of the framework while TG explored the
 extensions.

Although, this might eventually move to an even more common United
core that many web frameworks extend off of:

http://www.openplans.org/projects/pypefitters/

We can only hope...


 


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Exploring ramework futures


On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Noah Gift noah.g...@gmail.com wrote:

 Although, this might eventually move to an even more common United
 core that many web frameworks extend off of:

 http://www.openplans.org/projects/pypefitters/

Well, that requires some explanation,  Pypefitters is a group of WSGI
framework developers (including Pylons developers) who are pondering
the next generation of integrated tools.  Recently ( 5 days ago),
Pylons, TG, and Repoze.BFG developers have been kicking around an idea
for a new framework that would take the best ideas of all three and
have plug-in personalities (Routes vs attribute dispatching, 'return
render' vs @expose, different styles of configuration, etc).  The idea
is that this might be Pylons' and TG's successor (after Pylons 1 and
TG 2 are released), and that other frameworks (e.g., Werkzeug or
Django) could build on top of it if they liked.

The two basic ideas are that (1) WSGI/Paste was a wonderful idea in
2005 but now frameworks need more, and (2) WSGI will have to change
somehow to be Python 3 compatible (i.e., it makes str/unicode
assumptions that aren't valid under Python 3).

So three strains are coming together:
- post-Paste tools like WebOb, WebError, render_mako, the
RoutesMiddleware abstraction, and (maybe!) repoze.who are showing
promise as future standards.
- it may be time to move to a post-WSGI standard a la the WSGI 2
proposals, since we'll have to change WSGI anyway.  However,
politically getting a WSGI update into the Python core is a long slow
process, so maybe we should just do something under a new name.
- Pylons 3 makes a good transition point, in that we can base the new
tools on 2.6/3.0.

So there's no code yet and the design is still up in the air, but it's
an idea we're thinking about.

The other aspect of Pypefitters is promoting the WSGI programming
style, meaning small interoperable tools.
So encouraging users to choose Pylons/TG style frameworks, and
encouraging developers to build interoperability into their products.

-- 
Mike Orr sluggos...@gmail.com

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What's my application version?

2009-01-19 Thread will welch


What's the blessed way for my application to get its version string
(eg, the 0.1.0dev_r159 portion of the egg name
application-0.1.0dev_r159-py2.4.egg)



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Re: What's my application version?


On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 6:36 PM, will welch welch.quietple...@gmail.com wrote:

 What's the blessed way for my application to get its version string
 (eg, the 0.1.0dev_r159 portion of the egg name
 application-0.1.0dev_r159-py2.4.egg)

I'm not 100% of the question but you are looking for setup.py and
setup.cfg egg_info section

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Re: hasattr and context object


i believe AttribSafeContextObj are a convenience method for templates

its really a PITA to look at and maintain

% if hasattr( c , 'name '):

so we have a cleaner

% if c.name :

if you'd rather the templates work as python does (and less like
templating languages ) you can use the ContextObjm set strict_c to
true, etc  -- but i don't know why you'd want to.
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Re: Exploring ramework futures

2009-01-19 Thread MilesTogoe


Mike Orr wrote:
 On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Noah Gift noah.g...@gmail.com wrote:

   
 Although, this might eventually move to an even more common United
 core that many web frameworks extend off of:

 http://www.openplans.org/projects/pypefitters/
 

 Well, that requires some explanation,  Pypefitters is a group of WSGI
 framework developers (including Pylons developers) who are pondering
 the next generation of integrated tools.  Recently ( 5 days ago),
 Pylons, TG, and Repoze.BFG developers have been kicking around an idea
 for a new framework that would take the best ideas of all three and
 have plug-in personalities (Routes vs attribute dispatching, 'return
 render' vs @expose, different styles of configuration, etc).  The idea
 is that this might be Pylons' and TG's successor (after Pylons 1 and
 TG 2 are released), and that other frameworks (e.g., Werkzeug or
 Django) could build on top of it if they liked.

 The two basic ideas are that (1) WSGI/Paste was a wonderful idea in
 2005 but now frameworks need more, and (2) WSGI will have to change
 somehow to be Python 3 compatible (i.e., it makes str/unicode
 assumptions that aren't valid under Python 3).

 So three strains are coming together:
 - post-Paste tools like WebOb, WebError, render_mako, the
 RoutesMiddleware abstraction, and (maybe!) repoze.who are showing
 promise as future standards.
 - it may be time to move to a post-WSGI standard a la the WSGI 2
 proposals, since we'll have to change WSGI anyway.  However,
 politically getting a WSGI update into the Python core is a long slow
 process, so maybe we should just do something under a new name.
 - Pylons 3 makes a good transition point, in that we can base the new
 tools on 2.6/3.0.

 So there's no code yet and the design is still up in the air, but it's
 an idea we're thinking about.

 The other aspect of Pypefitters is promoting the WSGI programming
 style, meaning small interoperable tools.
 So encouraging users to choose Pylons/TG style frameworks, and
 encouraging developers to build interoperability into their products.

   
Interesting.  I've tried all the python frameworks.  I think there are 
really 2 markets - a simple to use framework and a highly optimized 
framework.  Can they be the same ?  Maybe.  Frankly the way the economy 
is going (and will for a while), most projects (all but really big or 
demand sensitive) will need to be highly productive, favoring a fast and 
simple to market approach like Rails.  For most power users, Django is 
awkward what with regex expressions, db, etc, Pylons is too damn 
confusing with all the different pieces not quite working together 
smoothly.  Of all the python frameworks we like Werkzeug the best - nice 
clean views, works easily with sqlalchemy, fast,   But frameworks 
with Werkzeug are  missing a few key components: auth, sessions, 
testing  And SQLAlchemy lacking a good migration system is a real 
negative to productivity.  While I still prefer the python language, 
when it comes to getting stuff done, I think Rails still reigns 
supreme.  Python needs something like Merb w/ sqlalchemy working like 
datamapper and with a good cloud option.  Think productivity - fast, 
fast, fast to market.  my 2 cents.

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Re: Django or Pylons - comparison details

On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 4:54 PM, Colin Flanagan quadvill...@yahoo.com wrote:

 - Original Message 
 From: Jorge Vargas jorge.var...@gmail.com
 To: pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 4:45:35 PM
 Subject: Re: Django or Pylons - comparison details

 On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Lawrence Oluyede l.oluy...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 6:20 PM, Colin Flanagan quadvill...@yahoo.com 
 wrote:
 I'm curious if Django's CMS reputation comes from the fact that it's used 
 by a lot of newspapers and content providers, or if there really is 
 something that makes it advantageous over other frameworks.

 Django's admin is very handy for content based sites. We're developing
 the Italian PyCon website with Django. While we develop the webiste
 some people can upload and review documents, rollback and stuff like
 that.

 Very nice. Nothing you can't code in Pylons or CGI with C, but it's
 nice to have it for free.

 you should try out Catwalk2, tgext.admin and/or Rum. They are
 currently the competitors in TurboGears2 regarding this playing field.

 Catwalk2 and tgext.admin are build on top of Turbogears so you will
 need that dependency (totally worth it) or if you don't want that then
 Rum is a wsgi app

 http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Catwalk
 http://pypi.python.org/pypi/tgext.admin/
 http://docs.python-rum.org/user/install.html

 Note: the author is catwalk and tgext.admin is the same guy, he is
 currently considering of folding one of the projects into the other as
 at this moment their only difference is that Catwalk2 is equivalent to
 django's autodiscovery while tgext.admin is the customizable by
 code type of thing
 Note2: I haven't used any of the 3 outside a turbogears project, but
 they will work in parallel

 These are really interesting.  I'm especially curious to hear anyone's 
 experience using Rum with Pylons. I'm getting ready to build something really 
 similar but am now thinking otherwise.

as I said rum is a wsgi app, so it runs standalone, rumAlchemy your
dburi is enough. to try it out. As for the integration (running in
the same process, theme sharing, etc.) that's another story, you could
base yourself on the tg2 sample app.

 My impression of Django's admin was that, once you've replaced the native 
 ORM, you no longer get it for free. That still holds true, no?

yes, django admin is tied into django ORM. On the contrary rum has
interfaces to use other ORMs, but so far it only has a SQLAlchemy
backend. The same hold s true for catwalk2.

Just to be clear, all 3 of these tools provide some how the same
feature set of django admin. they are NOT django they are 100%
TG/pylons code. Both use as base ToscaWidgets which ones was
TruboGears widgets, catwalk2 and tgext.admin build on top of a second
framework call sprox (which is somehow like formalchemy), The
difference between the three is really set in internal components and
some design issue, but to the end use they all should be quite alike.

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Re: Exploring ramework futures


On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 6:22 PM, MilesTogoe miles.to...@gmail.com wrote:
 Interesting.  I've tried all the python frameworks.  I think there are
 really 2 markets - a simple to use framework and a highly optimized
 framework.  Can they be the same ?  Maybe.

That is one of the ideas, actually.  If you imagine each personality
as a paster template, one would be a souped-up Easy version like
TurboGears for those who want features and don't want to know the
internals (which is most people).  The other would be a minimalist
mode like Werkzeug/web.py where you have to choose the add-ons
yourself.  The Easy one would get a friendly book and marketing
campaign, while the minimal one would appeal to tinkerers (and
hopefully be state of the art).  Like... Ubuntu and Xubuntu really.
You can switch from one to the other by changing the configuration and
installing some packages.

I personally think three or four personalities are needed because a
Pylons user, for instance, would want something in between these two
extremes.  But every personality needs a developer to support it, so
in the end it comes down to who volunteers to support what.

The benefit of TG partnering with Pylons has been a doubling of the
developer base. Now we have a chance to do it with the Repoze folks,
which will be a larger gap to bridge but with the same kind of
benefit.  (The differences are configuration/plugin/dispatching
traditions.  But both TG and BFG dispatch via cascading attributes so
that could merge, and then the framework would just have to support
both that and Routes via some lower-level dispatch API.)

So much of the work is already done or is being done, and bridging the
Pylons / Repoze gap would have to be done anyway if maximum
interoperability is a goal.  That just leaves the Pylons / Django gap,
which we can't do much about that until/if their developers decide to
participate.  Currently they seem to prefer going their own way, but
perhaps that might change once the trio framework becomes a reality.

-- 
Mike Orr sluggos...@gmail.com

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Re: Exploring ramework futures


awesome news

we're tidying up the Open Social Network framework for its first
public release right now.  its built on top of pylons and would do
well from many of these concepts.
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Re: What's my application version?


On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Jorge Vargas jorge.var...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 6:36 PM, will welch welch.quietple...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

 What's the blessed way for my application to get its version string
 (eg, the 0.1.0dev_r159 portion of the egg name
 application-0.1.0dev_r159-py2.4.egg)

 I'm not 100% of the question but you are looking for setup.py and
 setup.cfg egg_info section

To get the version in a program, you'd use a pkg_resources function.
Which one... hmm...
http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/PkgResources
How about...

version = pkg_resources.get_distribution(Pylons).version

If you want to compare one version to another, use .parsed_version |
parse_version() instead, which provide a normalized tuple.

-- 
Mike Orr sluggos...@gmail.com

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Re: hasattr and context object