[Python-Dev] Re: Flexible assignment targets

On 03/07/2020 00:12, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Fri., 3 Jul. 2020, 2:27 am MRAB, > wrote: IMHO, the assignment statement should remain as it is, not sometimes assign and sometimes not. There could be another form that does matching:      try

[Python-Dev] Re: Stable ABI question.

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 7:28 PM Victor Stinner wrote: > > Hi, > > Last time I looked at PyEval_AcquireLock(), it was used in the wild, > but I don't recall exactly where, sorry :-( Before removing the > functions, I suggest to first notify impacted projects of the incoming > removal, and maybe

[Python-Dev] Re: Re Re: Recent PEP-8 change (Ivan Pozdeev)

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 7:55 PM Eric V. Smith wrote: > But this commit was to the peps repo, which has far fewer commits, one > branch, no tags, and only 10 PRs. So while it's still an issue, it's not as > big a deal as if we were talking about the cpython repo. > > I don't know how many forks

[Python-Dev] Re: Plan to remove Py_UNICODE APis except PEP 623.

On 7/2/20 10:19 AM, Victor Stinner wrote: > Do you mean UTF-16 and UTF-32? UTF-16 supports the whole Unicode > character set but uses the annoying surrogate pairs for characters > outside the BMP.* Minor quibble, UTF-16 handles all of the CURRENTLY defined Unicode set, and there is a currently a

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change (Antoine Pitrou)

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 10:10 AM Łukasz Langa wrote: > Commit messages aren't usually scrutinized to this extent. If you looked at > the last 1000 commits in cpython, you'd find quite a few with messages that > could be seriously improved. We don't though because commits are immutable. > You

[Python-Dev] Re: [Python-ideas] Re: Amend PEP-8 to require clear, understandable comments instead of Strunk & White Standard English comments

On 2020-07-02 22:17, Jeff Allen wrote: On 01/07/2020 21:01, Ethan Furman wrote: A not-great article, White Fears of Dispossession: Dreyer's English, The Elements of Style,and the Racial Mapping of English Discourse, here:

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change (Antoine Pitrou)

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 8:34 PM Łukasz Langa wrote: > Commit messages aren't usually scrutinized to this extent. If you looked > at the last 1000 commits in cpython, you'd find quite a few with messages > that could be seriously improved. We don't though because commits are > immutable. You can

[Python-Dev] Re: [Python-ideas] Re: Amend PEP-8 to require clear, understandable comments instead of Strunk & White Standard English comments

On 01/07/2020 21:01, Ethan Furman wrote: A not-great article, White Fears of Dispossession: Dreyer's English, The Elements of Style,and the Racial Mapping of English Discourse, here: http://radicalteacher.library.pitt.edu/ojs/radicalteacher/issue/view/19/25 Thanks for posting this. (What

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change (Antoine Pitrou)

> On 2 Jul 2020, at 21:38, Chris Angelico wrote: > > Formal proposal: Either request a new commit message from the original > author, or have someone rewrite it, and we go ahead and make the > change. -1 This would be serious precedent to fiddling with publicly replicated repo history. This

[Python-Dev] Re: Flexible assignment targets

Unfortunately there are millions of ideas. The PEP authors are taking the dilemma seriously and we are deliberating what to do. On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 4:04 PM Nick Coghlan wrote: > On Thu., 2 Jul. 2020, 11:18 am Guido van Rossum, wrote: > >> On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 5:50 PM Nick Coghlan wrote:

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On Thu, 02 Jul 2020 18:54:26 -0400 Random832 wrote: > On Thu, Jul 2, 2020, at 18:15, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > On Thu, 02 Jul 2020 17:58:44 -0400 > > Random832 wrote: > > > Why indeed? > > > > Because we're talking about PEP 8, and PEP 8 intends to cover the code > > style used when

[Python-Dev] Re: Python Documentation, Python language improvement, and productive discussion (Antoine Pitrou)

I'm interested in being part of said Docs group! David From: python-dev-requ...@python.org Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2020 5:33 PM To: python-dev@python.org Subject: Python-Dev Digest, Vol 204, Issue 23 Send Python-Dev mailing list submissions to

[Python-Dev] Re: Re Re: Recent PEP-8 change (Ivan Pozdeev)

On 7/2/2020 6:49 PM, Rémi Lapeyre wrote: Le 3 juil. 2020 à 00:32, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev mailto:python-dev@python.org>> a écrit : Athttps://git-scm.com/book/en/v2/Git-Branching-Rebasing#_rebase_vs_merge, they say that the argument of whether to allow overwriting history in VCSes

[Python-Dev] Re: Re Re: Recent PEP-8 change (Ivan Pozdeev)

> Le 3 juil. 2020 à 00:32, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev > a écrit : > > At https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2/Git-Branching-Rebasing#_rebase_vs_merge > , > they say that the argument of whether to allow overwriting history

[Python-Dev] Re: Flexible assignment targets

On Fri., 3 Jul. 2020, 2:27 am MRAB, wrote: > > IMHO, the assignment statement should remain as it is, not sometimes > assign and sometimes not. > > There could be another form that does matching: > > try ?x, 0 = (4,5) > Huh, this made me wonder if "match/try" may fit people's brains

[Python-Dev] Re: Flexible assignment targets

On Thu., 2 Jul. 2020, 11:18 am Guido van Rossum, wrote: > On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 5:50 PM Nick Coghlan wrote: > >> The key thing I'm hoping for in PEP 622 itself is that "Syntactic >> compatibility with a possible future enhancement to assignment >> statements" be considered as a constraint on

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020, at 18:15, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Thu, 02 Jul 2020 17:58:44 -0400 > Random832 wrote: > > Why indeed? > > Because we're talking about PEP 8, and PEP 8 intends to cover the code > style used when writing code in the *Python standard library*. ok, first of all, fair enough,

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change (Antoine Pitrou)

Perhaps you could revert the original commit, then apply the same diff again with an adjusted message? Would that strike a good balance? Cheers, Barney On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 at 21:36, Henk-Jaap Wagenaar wrote: > On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 at 20:33, Chris Angelico wrote: > >> On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at

[Python-Dev] Re: Re Re: Recent PEP-8 change (Ivan Pozdeev)

At https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2/Git-Branching-Rebasing#_rebase_vs_merge, they say that the argument of whether to allow overwriting history in VCSes stems from two opposing views on what a project's history should be. One is that is shall be a raw, unedited record of events as they happened;

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On Thu, 02 Jul 2020 17:58:44 -0400 Random832 wrote: > On Thu, Jul 2, 2020, at 05:20, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > We're not talking about posting "your own writing", we're talking about > > comments (and presumably documentation) in a collective software > > project. There's a need for consistency,

[Python-Dev] Re: Python Documentation, Python language improvement, and productive discussion

On Thu, 02 Jul 2020 20:41:54 - "Carol Willing" wrote: > > Earlier this year at the Python Language Summit, Ned Batchelder and I > presented the concept of a Documentation Workgroup and a vision for the next > few years: > > - Slidedeck >

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020, at 05:20, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > We're not talking about posting "your own writing", we're talking about > comments (and presumably documentation) in a collective software > project. There's a need for consistency, however it's > specified and achieved. > > Otherwise why

[Python-Dev] Python Documentation, Python language improvement, and productive discussion

Hi folks, Earlier this year at the Python Language Summit, Ned Batchelder and I presented the concept of a Documentation Workgroup and a vision for the next few years: - Slidedeck https://speakerdeck.com/willingc/cpython-documentation-the-next-5-years - Blog post

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change (Antoine Pitrou)

On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 at 20:33, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 5:17 AM Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev > wrote: > > > > If you are talking about rewriting the PEP8 commit, it has proven to > cause so much damage that this is warranted despite the inconveniences IMO. > > > > I think I

[Python-Dev] Re Re: Recent PEP-8 change (Ivan Pozdeev)

No contention to the contrary, but as a routine, post-merge git history rewrite, not a grand plan, from what I understand. Oh the other hand, an 'official' comment on the commit, recognising the issue with the original commit message, the following discussion, and any conclusions that get

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change (Antoine Pitrou)

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 5:17 AM Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev wrote: > > > On 02.07.2020 21:20, Chris Angelico wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 4:09 AM David Mertz wrote: > >>> An issue is that commit messages are uneditable after merge, so something > >>> written somewhere suggesting

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 9:51 PM Ethan Furman wrote: > But the text in question said nothing about gender issues -- it was about > race issues. Can anyone shed light on that? If there is something I need > to learn I would like to learn it. > Exactly. The explanation so far has been that it is

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change (Antoine Pitrou)

On 02.07.2020 21:20, Chris Angelico wrote: On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 4:09 AM David Mertz wrote: An issue is that commit messages are uneditable after merge, so something written somewhere suggesting consideration of this would be a good idea, with authors/mergers bearing this in mind, however

[Python-Dev] Re: Flexible assignment targets

It's off the table from the perspective of PEP 622 and its authors. If you want to write a competing PEP that proposes your idea that's totally fine. On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 8:17 PM Elliott Chen wrote: > I don't think my proposal should be off the table for scope reasons > because it requires

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On 07/02/2020 10:19 AM, David Mertz wrote: On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 12:58 PM Piper Thunstrom wrote: On 07/02/2020 David Mertz wrote: TL;DR: It's not a recent usage; it was OK in 1375. Over the last handful of decades, singular "they" has been explicitly taught as inappropriate. My own

[Python-Dev] Re: Flexible assignment targets

I think that creating a "matching assignment" operator is unnecessary at this point. I think the original point of bringing this up as part of PEP 622 is to try to suggest that the syntax for binding a value not be incompatible with a future version of Python where that same syntax can be used for

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change (Antoine Pitrou)

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 4:09 AM David Mertz wrote: >> An issue is that commit messages are uneditable after merge, so something >> written somewhere suggesting consideration of this would be a good idea, >> with authors/mergers bearing this in mind, however unusual a change on this >> basis

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On 7/2/2020 7:39 AM, Tim Peters wrote: Then again, we're talking about humans. There's nothing you can do - or refrain from doing - that won't mortally offend someone:-) This is the truest thing spoken in this whole thread. ___ Python-Dev mailing

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On 2020-07-02 18:19, David Mertz wrote: On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 12:58 PM Piper Thunstrom > wrote: > TL;DR: It's not a recent usage; it was OK in 1375. Forgive me for not giving a detailed play by play of 15 years of experience specifically as a writer

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change (Antoine Pitrou)

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 1:36 PM David Antonini wrote: > Surely, if the argument is to be as inclusive and easy as possible, > British English should be used? Things may have changed, but my impression > is that the majority of English-second-language (ESL) speakers learn > British English, not

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On 02/07/2020 17:47, Piper Thunstrom wrote: In terms of modern English vernacular, singular "they" has been continuously and rigorously treated as inappropriate. I think you may be being a tad parochial again. I can think of plenty of English vernaculars that treat singular "they" as

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On 02/07/2020 18:12, MRAB wrote: English isn't Latin. Bizarre as it may sound, I still occasionally find that hard to remember. My English Language teachers were only really interested in teaching English Literature, and considered grammar to be one of those unfortunate things it was

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 12:58 PM Piper Thunstrom wrote: > > TL;DR: It's not a recent usage; it was OK in 1375. > > Forgive me for not giving a detailed play by play of 15 years of > experience specifically as a writer and editor. > Over the last handful of decades, singular "they" has been

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change (Antoine Pitrou)

Surely, if the argument is to be as inclusive and easy as possible, British English should be used? Things may have changed, but my impression is that the majority of English-second-language (ESL) speakers learn British English, not American. So maybe that should be the switch, if inclusivity

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On 2020-07-02 17:47, Piper Thunstrom wrote: On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 12:16 PM MRAB wrote: > Here's an article on singular 'they': > > https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/ > > TL;DR: It's not a recent usage; it was OK in 1375. Forgive me for not giving a detailed play by

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 12:15 PM Paul Moore wrote: > My understanding is that technically "he" takes a dual role in > English, as both masculine (technical linguistics gender) 3rd person > singular and "indeterminate" 3rd person singular (because English > doesn't have an

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 (match statement) playground

On 1 Jul 2020, at 18:54, Brandt Bucher wrote: Walter Dörwald wrote: This looks strange to me. In all other cases of variable lookup the global variable z would be found. The next case assigns to z, making z local to whereis. This is consistent with python's existing scoping rules (for

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 620: Hide implementation details from the C API

On 7/2/2020 11:36 AM, Stefan Behnel wrote: Victor Stinner schrieb am 02.07.20 um 00:07: Le mer. 1 juil. 2020 à 23:43, Eric V. Smith a écrit : On 7/1/2020 3:43 PM, Stefan Behnel wrote: Petr Viktorin schrieb am 30.06.20 um 14:51: For example, could we only deprecate the bad parts, but not

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 12:16 PM MRAB wrote: > Here's an article on singular 'they': > > https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/ > > TL;DR: It's not a recent usage; it was OK in 1375. Forgive me for not giving a detailed play by play of 15 years of experience specifically as

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On 2020-07-02 17:14, Paul Moore wrote: On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 at 16:53, David Mertz wrote: On Thu, Jul 2, 2020, 11:08 AM Piper Thunstrom Paul, this is actually a good question to ask. In general, singular "they" is becoming more popular. It's already used frequently for the singular

[Python-Dev] Re: Flexible assignment targets

On 2020-07-02 15:48, Jim J. Jewett wrote: Guido van Rossum wrote: On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 5:50 PM Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: > The key thing I'm hoping for in PEP 622 itself is > that "Syntactic compatibility with a possible future > enhancement to assignment statements" be

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 at 16:53, David Mertz wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 2, 2020, 11:08 AM Piper Thunstrom >> >> Paul, this is actually a good question to ask. In general, singular "they" >> is becoming more popular. It's already used frequently for the singular >> indeterminate pronoun: > > The first

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On 2020-07-02 15:19, Piper Thunstrom wrote: On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 10:01 AM Paul Moore wrote: What *is* the correct inclusive way to refer to an unidentified person in a technical document, without sacrificing clarity by using convoluted circumlocutions like "he/her/they" or over-use of the

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020, 11:08 AM Piper Thunstrom > Paul, this is actually a good question to ask. In general, singular "they" > is becoming more popular. It's already used frequently for the > singular indeterminate pronoun: > The first attested use of singular they in English was in 1375 CE. I'm

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 620: Hide implementation details from the C API

Victor Stinner schrieb am 02.07.20 um 00:07: > Le mer. 1 juil. 2020 à 23:43, Eric V. Smith a écrit : >> >> On 7/1/2020 3:43 PM, Stefan Behnel wrote: >>> Petr Viktorin schrieb am 30.06.20 um 14:51: For example, could we only deprecate the bad parts, but not remove them until the

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

Inado-san makes a very good point. The (English) language used in technical documents is not AAVE. It's not Scotts-English. It's not Jamaican vernacular. It's not Indian English. But it is ALSO not American upper-middle class, white ivy-league English. Technical documentation is a kind of DSL

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On 02/07/2020 15:25, Inada Naoki wrote: I don't think I can write such clear English without help. But having such a goal is inclusive for non native English readers. I wouldn't be so certain. You have an advantage over native English speakers in that you don't use idiomatic cultural

[Python-Dev] destructuring with class constructors

Nick Coghlan wrote: > On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 at 00:50, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: > > As to allowing object destructuring syntax like > > Point(x, y) = p > > that definitely has merit, but it is a complex subject that should be a > > separate > > PEP. > This is the main point I'm

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 at 16:16, Éric Araujo wrote: > Le 2020-07-02 à 09 h 52, Paul Moore a écrit : > > What *is* the correct inclusive way to refer to an unidentified person > > in a technical document, without sacrificing clarity by using > > convoluted circumlocutions like "he/her/they" or

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 at 14:52, Paul Moore wrote: > On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 at 14:34, Henk-Jaap Wagenaar > wrote: > > > PEP-8 however does not mention a particular edition and the version that > is readily available (in the public domain) does contain this problematic > section "to use the masculine

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

Le 2020-07-02 à 09 h 52, Paul Moore a écrit : > What *is* the correct inclusive way to refer to an unidentified person > in a technical document, without sacrificing clarity by using > convoluted circumlocutions like "he/her/they" or over-use of the > passive voice? One technique is alternating

[Python-Dev] Re: Flexible assignment targets

Guido van Rossum wrote: > On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 5:50 PM Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: > > The key thing I'm hoping for in PEP 622 itself is > > that "Syntactic compatibility with a possible future > > enhancement to assignment statements" be considered > > as a constraint on the syntax

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 10:01 AM Paul Moore wrote: > What *is* the correct inclusive way to refer to an unidentified person > in a technical document, without sacrificing clarity by using > convoluted circumlocutions like "he/her/they" or over-use of the > passive voice? My impression is that

[Python-Dev] Re: Plan to remove Py_UNICODE APis except PEP 623.

On 2020-07-02 14:57, Victor Stinner wrote: Le jeu. 2 juil. 2020 à 14:44, Barry Scott a écrit : It's not obvious to me why the latin1 encoding is in this list as its just one of all the 8-bit char sets. Why is it needed? The Latin-1 (ISO 8859-1) charset is kind of special: it maps bytes

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

[Paul Moore ] > (This is a genuine question, and I'm terrified of being yelled at for > asking it, which gives an idea of the way this thread has gone - but I > genuinely do want to know, to try to improve my own writing). > > What *is* the correct inclusive way to refer to an unidentified person

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On 3/07/20 1:52 am, Paul Moore wrote: What *is* the correct inclusive way to refer to an unidentified person in a technical document... My impression is that commonly accepted language rules and usage are lagging behind, I don't know if "lagging behind" is the right term, seeing as there seems

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On 02/07/2020 14:52, Paul Moore wrote: On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 at 14:34, Henk-Jaap Wagenaar wrote: PEP-8 however does not mention a particular edition and the version that is readily available (in the public domain) does contain this problematic section "to use the masculine pronouns whenever

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 14:52:04 +0100 Paul Moore wrote: > On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 at 14:34, Henk-Jaap Wagenaar > wrote: > > > PEP-8 however does not mention a particular edition and the version that is > > readily available (in the public domain) does contain this problematic > > section "to use the

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 6:40 PM Chris Angelico wrote: > > True, but "inclusive" isn't just about the people *writing*. If you > write your comments in French, and someone else uses Turkish, another > uses Japanese, and still another opts for Hebrew, it becomes nearly > impossible for anyone to

[Python-Dev] Re: Plan to remove Py_UNICODE APis except PEP 623.

UCS-2 means units of 16 bits so it's limited to Unicode BMP: U+-U+. UCS-4 means units of 32 bits and so gives access to the whole (current) Unicode character set. Do you mean UTF-16 and UTF-32? UTF-16 supports the whole Unicode character set but uses the annoying surrogate pairs for

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 at 14:34, Henk-Jaap Wagenaar wrote: > PEP-8 however does not mention a particular edition and the version that is > readily available (in the public domain) does contain this problematic > section "to use the masculine pronouns whenever possible" which is not > inclusive.

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On 2020-07-02 12:32, Greg Ewing wrote: On 2/07/20 10:53 pm, MRAB wrote: Alternatively, it could be an auxiliary language like Esperanto. Maybe Esperanto in particular wouldn't be the best choice -- I gather it's rather European-oriented. Maybe we should standardise on Klingon? Humans of all

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On Tue, 30 Jun 2020 at 11:49, Ethan Furman wrote: > - it has been modernized as times have changed (the 2000 edition removed > the advice >to use masculine pronouns whenever possible, and warns that some will > find unnecessary >masculine usage offensive) > PEP-8 however does not

[Python-Dev] Re: Plan to remove Py_UNICODE APis except PEP 623.

> On 30 Jun 2020, at 13:43, Emily Bowman wrote: > > I completely agree with this, that UTF-8 has become the One True > Encoding(tm), and UCS-2 and UTF-16 are hardly found anywhere outside of the > Win32 API. Nearly all basic emoji can't be represented in UCS-2 wchar_t, let > alone composite

[Python-Dev] Re: Plan to remove Py_UNICODE APis except PEP 623.

Le jeu. 2 juil. 2020 à 14:44, Barry Scott a écrit : > It's not obvious to me why the latin1 encoding is in this list as its just > one of all the 8-bit char sets. > Why is it needed? The Latin-1 (ISO 8859-1) charset is kind of special: it maps bytes 0x00-0xFF to Unicode characters U+-U+00FF

[Python-Dev] Re: Plan to remove Py_UNICODE APis except PEP 623.

Latin-1 is the encoding that maps every byte (0-255) to the Unicode character with the same number. So it's special in that sense, and it gets used when mapping 8-bit bytes via Unicode "without encoding". Excuse my imprecise language here, I don't know the correct Unicode terms without going &

[Python-Dev] Re: Plan to remove Py_UNICODE APis except PEP 623.

> On 29 Jun 2020, at 10:57, Victor Stinner wrote: > > I would prefer to only have a fast-path for the most common encodings: > ASCII, Latin1, UTF-8, Windows ANSI code page. That's all. It's not obvious to me why the latin1 encoding is in this list as its just one of all the 8-bit char sets.

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On 2/07/20 10:53 pm, MRAB wrote: Alternatively, it could be an auxiliary language like Esperanto. Maybe Esperanto in particular wouldn't be the best choice -- I gather it's rather European-oriented. Maybe we should standardise on Klingon? Humans of all cultures would find it equally

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On 2020-07-02 10:38, Chris Angelico wrote: On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 7:27 PM Antoine Pitrou wrote: Otherwise why stop at English? I could just as well write my comments in French if it's all about individual freedom. Requiring English is not inclusive, it forced people like me to painfully adapt

[Python-Dev] Re: Stable ABI question.

Hi, Last time I looked at PyEval_AcquireLock(), it was used in the wild, but I don't recall exactly where, sorry :-( Before removing the functions, I suggest to first notify impacted projects of the incoming removal, and maybe even propose a fix. I suggest to attempt to follow the process that I

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 19:38:28 +1000 Chris Angelico wrote: > Standardizing on a > single language ensures that everyone can read the comments in a > single, consistent language. That was precisely my point. But "language" doesn't stop at the broad category "English" or "French", there are

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 7:27 PM Antoine Pitrou wrote: > Otherwise why stop at English? I could just as well write my comments > in French if it's all about individual freedom. Requiring English is > not inclusive, it forced people like me to painfully adapt to a > language I wasn't used to. And

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 01:40:56 +0100 Henk-Jaap Wagenaar wrote: > > What I think was meant here: S is inappropriate to use as a community > guideline for a diverse community like Python because it is not inclusive > and forces (a particular version of) "Standard English" on others, however, > you