Re: Supreme Court sides with church on decision to fire employee on religious grounds

2012-01-12 Thread Marci Hamilton
Do we get anymore out of this opinion on this issue than the fact the Sixth Circuit reaches the wrong decision regarding whether she is an employee or a minister? There several tests out there and none are explicitly embraced or rejected. Marci On Jan 11, 2012, at 2:47 PM, Alan

Re: Supreme Court sides with church on decision to fire employee on religious grounds

2012-01-12 Thread Marci Hamilton
The decision is much narrower than Joel's description. It does not cover all employees of religious organizations--only clergy. And it only involves claims involving discrimination against the religious organization, leaving open litigation from even clergy on contract and tort theories.

Re: Supreme Court sides with church on decision to fire employee on religious grounds

2012-01-12 Thread Marci Hamilton
From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Marci Hamilton Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 2:26 PM To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: Re: Supreme Court sides with church on decision to fire employee on religious

Re: Hosanna-Tabor

2012-01-12 Thread Marci Hamilton
I agree with David, though I would characterize the Court's paradigmatic concern as being about the right to choose selection criteria. Catholics and Orthodox Jews plainly have the right to favor men over women and Hosanna Tabor Lutherans have the right to choose mediators instead of

Re: Hosanna-Tabor

2012-01-12 Thread Marci Hamilton
. On Jan 11, 2012, at 10:07 PM, David Cruz dc...@law.usc.edu wrote: I agree. :-) And great to have seen you in DC! David B. Cruz Professor of Law University of Southern California Gould School of Law Los Angeles, CA 90089-0071 U.S.A. On Jan 11, 2012, at 6:49 PM, Marci Hamilton

Re: Supreme Court sides with church on decision to fire employee on religious grounds

2012-01-13 Thread Marci Hamilton
of Justice Law, Religion, and Ethics From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Marci Hamilton Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 12:34 PM To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: Re: Supreme Court sides with church on decision

Re: Hosanna-Tabor

2012-01-13 Thread Marci Hamilton
I assumed that the reference to tortious conduct left open cases like Bollard. This is another important aspect of the Court refusing to make the ministerial exception, whatever its scope, a jurisdictional bar. Marci On Jan 12, 2012, at 3:38 PM, Ira Lupu wrote: Does the line of

Re: Hosanna-Tabor

2012-01-13 Thread Marci Hamilton
I have no doubt whatsoever that Doug is sincere when he talks about his commitment to civil liberties more generally, but Hosanna-Tabor is the clearest case to date showing that religious liberty is a zero sum game. For increases in the rights of religious organizations, there are concomitant

Re: Interesting late 1800s Arkansas law related to government and religion

2012-01-25 Thread Marci Hamilton
Ok, I'll bite. Why is an anti-coercion statute obviously unconstitutional? Marci On Jan 24, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Volokh, Eugene vol...@law.ucla.edu wrote: An Arkansas 1891 statute: “No person shall coerce, intimidate or unduly influence, any elector to vote for or against the nominee of any

Re: Laws with exceptions as triggering strict scrutiny -- and as failing strict scrutiny because of their underinclusiveness?

2012-02-15 Thread Marci Hamilton
A side note on some of the discussion --As someone who was clerking at the Court the Term that Smith was decided, I find it jarring to hear law professors talk about Smith as though only one Justice either wrote it or voted for it. That is not how cases are decided or majorities reached

Re: Basketball tournaments on the Sabbath

2012-03-03 Thread Marci Hamilton
Lots of Catholics go to Saturday evening mass. Relevant? On Mar 3, 2012, at 2:55 PM, Alan Armstrong alanarmstrong@verizon.net wrote: My understanding is that Jewish and 7th day adventists consider sabbath as going from sundown on Friday to sundown on Saturday. I do not know of any

Re: Basketball tournaments on the Sabbath

2012-03-03 Thread Marci Hamilton
I'm sure it goes without saying that Rick is incorrect about Smith. It did not gut anything It was a case of first impression in the Court's eyes and rightly so. That is what the historical record at the Court establishes clearly. Folks can dislike Smith but lets at least nuance the

Re: Basketball tournaments on the Sabbath

2012-03-04 Thread Marci Hamilton
Thanks Rick for your viewpoint. It does not answer my constitutional or public policy question. Marci On Mar 3, 2012, at 2:02 PM, Rick Duncan nebraskalawp...@yahoo.com wrote: This was clearly the right thing to do. An association of private religious schools should be eager to

Re: Basketball tournaments on the Sabbath

2012-03-04 Thread Marci Hamilton
., by Wikipedia's article on Smith), but I can't see how that goes without saying. Rich Friedman At 06:27 PM 3/3/2012, Marci Hamilton wrote: I'm sure it goes without saying that Rick is incorrect about Smith. It did not gut anything It was a case of first impression in the Court's eyes

Re: Israeli Postal Workers Object to Delivering New Testaments

2012-03-05 Thread Marci Hamilton
can't see how that goes without saying. Rich Friedman At 06:27 PM 3/3/2012, Marci Hamilton wrote: I'm sure it goes without saying that Rick is incorrect about Smith. It did not gut anything It was a case of first impression in the Court's eyes and rightly so. That is what the historical

Re: Basketball tournaments on the Sabbath

2012-03-06 Thread Marci Hamilton
Frankly, common sense or at least a full evaluation of all of the non religious interests seems lacking on the side of those claims accommodation. On Mar 3, 2012, at 6:41 PM, Volokh, Eugene vol...@law.ucla.edu wrote: The trouble with “common sense” is that it often points in

Re: Basketball tournaments on the Sabbath

2012-03-06 Thread Marci Hamilton
There is significant precedent for one-religion sporting events, which I assume everyone agrees is fine.Catholic Leagues exist in numerous cities And the Maccabiah Games feature only Jewish athletes. TAPPs' first mistake appears to have been opening itself up to religious organizations

Re: Point of Information -- not quite on topic

2012-03-06 Thread Marci Hamilton
religious test for individuals? On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 10:06 AM, Marci Hamilton hamilto...@aol.com wrote: There is significant precedent for one-religion sporting events, which I assume everyone agrees is fine.Catholic Leagues exist in numerous cities And the Maccabiah Games feature

Re: Requirement that cabbies transport alcohol = tiny burden?

2012-03-06 Thread Marci Hamilton
Why is anger at a publicly licensed cab picking and choosing passengers according to religious belief anything like anti-Muslim animus? Cabbies can't reject passengers on race. Why should they be able to reject those with religious beliefs different from their own? If they don't want to

Re: Basketball tournaments on the Sabbath

2012-03-06 Thread Marci Hamilton
I agree with Paul here, and with the TAPPs ultimate decision which they should have reached earlier. Rick seemed to imply that I and others might not agree with it so I wanted to clarify my comments As I said originally, I was asking the big picture question. These events have many moving

Re: Basketball tournaments on the Sabbath

2012-03-06 Thread Marci Hamilton
Here is a general question to take us back to the bigger picture. What should the rule for sports associations be in the future? Schedule tournaments and finals only Mon through Sunday with attention to the religious schedule? How can you schedule such a tournament in light of the

Re: Discrimination against people with religious motivations for their actions

2012-03-07 Thread Marci Hamilton
[mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Marci Hamilton Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 3:39 PM To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Cc: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: Re: Discrimination against people with religious motivations for their actions I

Re: Basketball tournaments on the Sabbath

2012-03-07 Thread Marci Hamilton
PM, Marci Hamilton wrote: Lots of Catholics go to Saturday evening mass. Relevant? On Mar 3, 2012, at 2:55 PM, Alan Armstrong alanarmstrong@verizon.net wrote: My understanding is that Jewish and 7th day adventists consider sabbath as going from sundown on Friday to sundown

Re: Requirement that cabbies transport alcohol = tiny burden?

2012-03-07 Thread Marci Hamilton
Eugene-- just a point of information--is there a lead MN Sup Court case that applying strict scrutiny in cases involving neutral generally applicable laws and worship conduct that is illegal? Thanks! On Mar 7, 2012, at 3:11 PM, Volokh, Eugene vol...@law.ucla.edu wrote: But

Re: Discrimination against people with religious motivations for their actions

2012-03-08 Thread Marci Hamilton
I have to say that I find Steve's analysis more sound and based on common sense. Marci On Mar 7, 2012, at 3:07 PM, Volokh, Eugene vol...@law.ucla.edu wrote: I think the analysis below is mistaken: Whether or not cabbies’ refusal to carry alcohol should be barred by some general

Re: Statement on Religious Liberty from USCCB

2012-04-16 Thread Marci Hamilton
This is a statement of their preferred public policy not constitutional law. Marci On Apr 13, 2012, at 6:47 AM, Marty Lederman lederman.ma...@gmail.com wrote: The Conference of Catholic Bishops just issued this major Statement on Religious Liberty:

Re: Court upholds prison no-pork policy against Establishment Clause challenge

2012-04-16 Thread Marci Hamilton
Cutter only addressed the facial Establishment Clause attack on the prison provisions of RLUIPA. It did not protect any particular program or exemption from attack Marci On Apr 12, 2012, at 7:19 PM, Volokh, Eugene vol...@law.ucla.edu wrote: Maybe it would and maybe it

Re: Court upholds prison no-pork policy against Establishment Clause challenge

2012-04-18 Thread Marci Hamilton
litigation might not be. Eugene From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Marci Hamilton Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 1:33 PM To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Cc: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Subject

Re: Minister convicted for teaching parishioners to punish children by hitting them on the bare buttocks with wooden dowels

2012-05-14 Thread Marci Hamilton
Eugene-what about strict scrutiny? I think there is a compelling interest in protecting children from being hit with wooden dowels Given the hidden nature of most such abuse, there is unlikely to be a lesser restrictive method to ensure children are not harmed. Marci On May 13, 2012, at

Re: Minister convicted for teaching parishioners to punish children by hitting them on the bare buttocks with wooden dowels

2012-05-15 Thread Marci Hamilton
the propriety of holy war, and the like. Eugene From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Marci Hamilton Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 4:24 PM To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Cc: Law Religion issues for Law

Re: Defeat of RFRA constitutional amendment in North Dakota

2012-06-13 Thread Marci Hamilton
The truth is that gay rights and child protection communities went all out in North Dakota. Most Americans when they understand that a RFRA opens the door to discrimination or child sex abuse or medical neglect quickly cool on the extremism of a RFRA. The difference is public education

Re: Religious exemptions and child sexual abuse

2012-06-14 Thread Marci Hamilton
of Missouri Is a good case to start with Marci On Jun 14, 2012, at 9:31 AM, Arthur Spitzer artspit...@gmail.com wrote: Marci - I don't believe you've stated the facts of a single case. I'd say the same thing if you were a man. Art On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 7:27 AM, Marci Hamilton hamilto...@aol.com

Re: Religious exemptions and child sexual abuse

2012-06-14 Thread Marci Hamilton
Distinguished Professor of Law University of Virginia Law School 580 Massie Road Charlottesville, VA 22903 434-243-8546 From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Marci Hamilton Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 10:02 AM To: Law Religion

Re: Religious exemptions and child sexual abuse

2012-06-14 Thread Marci Hamilton
There is a significant federal RFRA litigation burden in the diocesan bankruptcies. Marty and I have been on opposite sides litigating it. I currently represent the victims in the Milwaukee Archdiocesan bankruptcy on the RFRA and First Amendment issues. I have seen state rfras pled in many

Re: Religious exemptions in ND

2012-06-15 Thread Marci Hamilton
The Sherbert/Yoder test was never treated by the Supreme Court as a test available across the board. So NARAL's concerns and CHILD 's Issues would not have been controlled by it The concern is not over enforcement but rather enforcement Giving religious groups more power to endanger children

Re: Religious exemptions and child sexual abuse

2012-06-15 Thread Marci Hamilton
...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Marci Hamilton Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 6:44 PM To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Cc: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: Re: Religious exemptions and child sexual abuse There is a significant federal RFRA

Re: Religious exemptions in ND

2012-06-15 Thread Marci Hamilton
Public schools should also be held to the same standard as any private institution and it should be child-protective Marci On Jun 15, 2012, at 11:04 AM, Douglas Laycock dlayc...@virginia.edu wrote: It is not just other constitutional interests that limit liability for harm to children. It

Re: Religious exemptions in ND

2012-06-15 Thread Marci Hamilton
Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Marci Hamilton hamilto...@aol.com Sender: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 03:08:48 To: Law Religion issues for Law Academicsreligionlaw@lists.ucla.edu Reply-To: Law Religion issues for Law

Re: Providing public school credits for release-time religious classes

2012-06-30 Thread Marci Hamilton
Marty is undoubtedly correct under current doctrine. The release time program exists I assume to avoid Establishment Cl problems. To now argue entanglement is a problem is a constitutional sleight of hand to avoid a violation. The entanglement argument is particularly weak given the

Re: Providing public school credits for release-time religious classes

2012-06-30 Thread Marci Hamilton
Academics Subject: Re: Providing public school credits for release-time religious classes Unless, like Niemeyer, you think that four Rs, not three, are integral to the public school mission. Sent from my iPhone On Jun 30, 2012, at 1:55 PM, Marci Hamilton hamilto...@aol.com wrote

Re: Parental rights and physical conduct

2012-07-05 Thread Marci Hamilton
at 2:59 PM, Marci Hamilton hamilto...@aol.com wrote: I would like some clarification from those relying on purported parental rights. The use of the term parental right is freighted w social and cultural value but very little legal value. Pierce v Society of Sisters is balanced by Prince

Re: Parental rights and physical conduct

2012-07-05 Thread Marci Hamilton
some beer with my younger son -- he'll be 22 in a few weeks. I have a 13 year old grandson coming to visit tomorrow, and I'll have to think twice about offering him a bottle. On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 8:19 PM, Marci Hamilton hamilto...@aol.com wrote: I would disagree with Chip that the concept

Re: Parental rights and physical conduct

2012-07-06 Thread Marci Hamilton
younger son -- he'll be 22 in a few weeks. I have a 13 year old grandson coming to visit tomorrow, and I'll have to think twice about offering him a bottle. On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 8:19 PM, Marci Hamilton hamilto...@aol.commailto:hamilto...@aol.com wrote: I would disagree with Chip

Re: What religion is an 8-day-old?

2012-07-10 Thread Marci Hamilton
As long as it is a case-by-case analysis, I am on board. But I think the presumption of religion as good is folly for the vulnerable. Marci On Jul 10, 2012, at 10:10 AM, Andrew M M Koppelman akoppel...@law.northwestern.edu wrote: I said that the value of religion sometimes outweighs other

Marci Hamilton wants to share new pictures with you :)

2012-08-25 Thread Marci Hamilton
Title: An Email from Zoosk Marci Hamilton has added you as a friend on Zoosk. Is Marci Hamilton your friend? Yes No This message was sent by a Zoosk

Re: Marriage -- the Alito dissent

2013-06-29 Thread Marci Hamilton
29, 2013 at 11:25 AM, Marci Hamilton hamilton.ma...@gmail.com wrote: At this stage in history, Alito's view is in fact decisively sectarian. The vast majority of opposition is theological w theological sources. That is the political reality. And his sources and arguments are derived directly

Re: RLUIPA and hair length in prison

2013-07-27 Thread Marci Hamilton
Michael-- how do you read Cutter's several statements that require deference to prison officials on safety? Marci Marci A. Hamilton Verkuil Chair in Public Law Benjamin N. Cardozo Law School Yeshiva University @Marci_Hamilton On Jul 27, 2013, at 12:36 PM, Michael Masinter masin...@nova.edu

Re: Contraception mandate

2013-08-01 Thread Marci Hamilton
As I understand the process, Doug reassured folks on the left that RLPA as applied to land use law would not apply to the civil rights laws, particularly the fair housing laws. Not sure how to square that w Doug's current statements. I also find the in pari materia argument disingenuous at

Re: Contraception mandate

2013-08-01 Thread Marci Hamilton
I think it is critically important to remember that RLPA was rejected categorically by the members as much too broad. The history w respect to anything other than land use and prisons are the only histories that have any reliable content to them for future interpretation. Post-enactment

Re: Contraception mandate

2013-08-01 Thread Marci Hamilton
There is no all in the legislative process. There are only competing interests and conflicting sides. I am not going to belabor this for this exchange, but as someone who was as intimately involved in this as Doug, but on the opposite side, his description encompasses some but not all of what

Re: Contraception mandate

2013-08-02 Thread Marci Hamilton
, Marci Hamilton hamilto...@aol.com wrote: Except that 1997 itself is an irrelevant date. The relevant dates are 1990-93, during the enactment of RFRA. Marci Marci A. Hamilton Verkuil Chair in Public Law Benjamin N. Cardozo Law School Yeshiva University @Marci_Hamilton On Aug 2

Re: Contraception mandate

2013-08-02 Thread Marci Hamilton
in commercial activity. On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 8:17 AM, Marci Hamilton hamilto...@aol.com wrote: Except that 1997 itself is an irrelevant date. The relevant dates are 1990-93, during the enactment of RFRA. Marci Marci A. Hamilton Verkuil Chair in Public Law Benjamin N. Cardozo Law School

Re: New Twist On Challenge to ACA Contraceptive Mandate

2013-08-15 Thread Marci Hamilton
I assume they were serious and hope they were. If you are a woman with unstoppable bleeding as part of your periods, or excruciating cramps, this is medication and treatment that is indeed compelling. If you cannot go to work for 5 days every month because of the severity of your periods,

Re: New Twist On Challenge to ACA Contraceptive Mandate

2013-08-15 Thread Marci Hamilton
governmental rational basis, of course, but not a governmental compelling interest. Just my 2¢, Michael -- Michael Worley BYU Law School, Class of 2014 On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Marci Hamilton hamilto...@aol.com wrote: I assume they were serious and hope they were. If you

Re: New Twist On Challenge to ACA Contraceptive Mandate

2013-08-17 Thread Marci Hamilton
I agree w Chip and Jim on the baseline issue, but also the previous point about the point of the Religion Clauses is not just rights for the believer but also the path to peace in a diverse religious culture. Lee and Bowen v Roy stand for the proposition that if one chooses to employ or to

Re: New Twist On Challenge to ACA Contraceptive Mandate

2013-08-17 Thread Marci Hamilton
I was not suggesting only the burden on taxpayers, though when it comes to a national scheme of healthcare, I think the compelling interest standard is met by women's reproductive health. I was also suggesting the govt has a compelling interest in (1)ensuring women have reasonable means of

Re: New Twist On Challenge to ACA Contraceptive Mandate

2013-08-18 Thread Marci Hamilton
with abortion, government does not need to fund it--the compelling interest is in not making it illegal. Jon On 2013-08-17 10:57, Marci Hamilton wrote: I agree w Chip and Jim on the baseline issue, but also the previous point about the point

Re: Harmony and the freedom of religion (RE: New Twist On Challenge to ACA Contraceptive Mandate)

2013-08-18 Thread Marci Hamilton
Thanks, Ellis, for your valuable post. Let's also add that the framing generation understood and articulated a distinction between liberty and licentiousness, as I have written before. And set a boundary on religious liberty of safety and the public good. Indeed, pastors preached abiding by

Re: Harmony and the freedom of religion (RE: New Twist On Challenge to ACA Contraceptive Mandate)

2013-08-18 Thread Marci Hamilton
But if you take the restoration part of RFRA seriously, Lee and Bowen are the lead cases in these scenarios. I don't think you can have it both ways that RFRA restores the prior case law and it requires radical new ways of reasoning w respect to large federal or state administrative programs.

Re: Harmony and the freedom of religion (RE: New Twist On Challenge to ACA Contraceptive Mandate)

2013-08-18 Thread Marci Hamilton
Reread the entirety of the memorial. Madison was very concerned about the abusive power of the clergy. Marci A. Hamilton Verkuil Chair in Public Law Benjamin N. Cardozo Law School Yeshiva University @Marci_Hamilton On Aug 18, 2013, at 6:20 PM, Richard Dougherty dou...@udallas.edu wrote: I

Re: Harmony and the freedom of religion (RE: New Twist On Challenge to ACA Contraceptive Mandate)

2013-08-18 Thread Marci Hamilton
. Scarberry Professor of Law Pepperdine Univ. School of Law -Original Message- From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Marci Hamilton Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 3:03 PM To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Cc: Law

Re: New Mexico Supreme Court Rules Against Wedding Photographer Who Discriminated Against Gays

2013-08-22 Thread Marci Hamilton
That's right, Brad, if you want to have a for-profit company in a free market economy, you shouldn't be able to choose your customers based on race, gender, sexual orientation, or religion. Isn't that how the market works best-- being fueled by products and price, rather than purchaser's or

Re: New Mexico Supreme Court Rules Against Wedding Photographer Who Discriminated Against Gays

2013-08-23 Thread Marci Hamilton
Wedding photography is speech for money, and a lot of it. The photographer who depicts the wedding in a non- joyous manner is not going to get paid, is going to receive terrible reviews online, and even be boycotted. She or he will find themselves with no wedding jobs. The photographer who

Re: New Mexico Supreme Court Rules Against Wedding Photographer Who Discriminated Against Gays

2013-08-23 Thread Marci Hamilton
And if the NYT refused to include same- sex couples in its wedding section, it would be sued. Or mixed race couples. Or to sell to same-sex couples. Except for the narrow issue in Hosanna Tabor, First Amendment rights do not immunize you from the civil rights laws. Marci A. Hamilton

Re: New Mexico decision and other First Amendment expression

2013-08-23 Thread Marci Hamilton
Where is the potential civil rights violation in this hypothetical? Marci A. Hamilton Verkuil Chair in Public Law Benjamin N. Cardozo Law School Yeshiva University @Marci_Hamilton On Aug 23, 2013, at 8:45 AM, Michael Worley mwor...@byulaw.net wrote: Are people who support the decision in

Re: New Mexico decision and other First Amendment expression

2013-08-23 Thread Marci Hamilton
Let me clarify: the issue in New Mexico is a conflict between the civil rights of same sex couples and for-profit photographers who hold themselves out as a public accommodation.The govt does not have civil rights. Marci A. Hamilton Verkuil Chair in Public Law Benjamin N. Cardozo Law School

Re: A right not to be compelled to create expression?

2013-08-24 Thread Marci Hamilton
Point of law-- Most freelancers are subject to work for hire agreements that divest copyright and make the purchaser the owner of the speech for all purposes. Marci A. Hamilton Verkuil Chair in Public Law Benjamin N. Cardozo Law School Yeshiva University @Marci_Hamilton On Aug 24, 2013,

Re: A right not to be compelled to create expression?

2013-08-24 Thread Marci Hamilton
to write. Eugene From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Marci Hamilton Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 10:26 AM To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Cc: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: Re

Re: Contraception Mandate

2013-11-26 Thread Marci Hamilton
This isn't lunch-- it is medical treatment for women. (Contraceptive meds may work against some Catholics' beliefs but they are often taken for non-contraceptive reasons, so the contraception label for this is religio-centric). And women have a civil right against these employers not to be

Re: Contraception Mandate

2013-11-26 Thread Marci Hamilton
, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Marci Hamilton hamilto...@aol.com wrote: This isn't lunch-- it is medical treatment for women. (Contraceptive meds may work against some Catholics' beliefs but they are often taken for non-contraceptive reasons, so the contraception label for this is religio-centric

Re: Discrimination under Title VII and RFRA (was Patently Frivolous)

2013-11-27 Thread Marci Hamilton
Chip-- it might be a standing issue regarding the religious discrimination but I still think it has legs because, eg, a Presbyterian is having her job benefits limited solely according to religion that she doesn't share, in contravention of both economics and health standards. Shaping a

Re: Discrimination under Title VII and RFRA (was Patently Frivolous)

2013-11-27 Thread Marci Hamilton
Marty- one addition --women will also have to pay for oral contraceptives to stop excessive bleeding, cramps, and hormone- triggered acne. I think this discussion needs to factor in the medical uses beyond contraception for millions of women over the course of their lives. Marci Marci A.

Re: Discrimination under Title VII and RFRA (was Patently Frivolous)

2013-11-27 Thread Marci Hamilton
I certainly hope they will rely on these statutes which are evidence of (1) the ingrained and ongoing persistence of gender discrimination across society and in private institutions; (2) the need to be vigilant as these hard-fought rights can be compromised at any time; and (3) this religious

Re: Discrimination under Title VII and RFRA (was Patently Frivolous)

2013-11-27 Thread Marci Hamilton
Tom-- they are not opposed to the Pill? Marci A. Hamilton Verkuil Chair in Public Law Benjamin N. Cardozo Law School Yeshiva University @Marci_Hamilton On Nov 27, 2013, at 12:16 PM, Berg, Thomas C. tcb...@stthomas.edu wrote: In response to Chip, As to the plaintiffs in Hobby Lobby and

Re: Discrimination under Title VII and RFRA (was Patently Frivolous)

2013-11-27 Thread Marci Hamilton
[mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Marci Hamilton Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 12:32 PM To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Cc: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: Re: Discrimination under Title VII and RFRA (was Patently Frivolous) Tom

Re: Sex discrimination and objections to apparently abortifacent contraceptives

2013-11-28 Thread Marci Hamilton
Few quick observations and then my work through of the Title VII and RFRA factors. These employers oppose sterilization, not just medicines. Does that affect Eugene's analysis? Also--Is there a sincerity point to be raised given they are religiously opposed to all contraception but basing

Re: Letter of 16 law professors in support of removing substantial as modifier of burden in state RFRAs

2013-12-02 Thread Marci Hamilton
Chris-- As I mentioned, CT's has been amended through interpretation You are right about Alabama. I actually think these terms matter and removal of substantial violates the Establishment Clause but it also shows the endless push by religious entities to overcome all laws. I assume the

Re: Letter of 16 law professors in support of removing substantial as modifier of burden in state RFRAs

2013-12-02 Thread Marci Hamilton
The Texas municipal league and civil rights groups -- especially those protecting children's and women's and gay rights -- would disagree w the notion substantial is irrelevant. And the TX legislature had no interest, or so I am told by those groups on the ground in Texas. I don't want the

Re: Letter of 16 law professors in support of removing substantial as modifier of burden in state RFRAs

2013-12-02 Thread Marci Hamilton
if it is. On Dec 2, 2013, at 12:44 PM, Marci Hamilton hamilto...@aol.com wrote: Chris-- As I mentioned, CT's has been amended through interpretation You are right about Alabama. I actually think these terms matter and removal of substantial violates the Establishment Clause but it also

Re: Letter of 16 law professors in support of removing substantial as modifier of burden in state RFRAs

2013-12-02 Thread Marci Hamilton
in phrasing--burden, substantial burden, or restriction on religious liberty,--would matter in deciding cases? Again I may be wrong about this and I really would like to be corrected if I am. But I have seen no evidence that these differences have practical payoff. On Dec 2, 2013, at 1:45 PM, Marci

Re: Letter of 16 law professors in support of removing substantial as modifier of burden in state RFRAs

2013-12-02 Thread Marci Hamilton
on describing religious groups as having lobbyists and an agenda, and implying that other groups are wholly selfless and decent? Or is that just semantic advocacy? On Dec 2, 2013, at 12:45 PM, Marci Hamilton hamilto...@aol.com wrote: The Texas municipal league and civil rights groups

Re: Warner v. City of Boca Raton

2013-12-03 Thread Marci Hamilton
I find it interesting that Doug concedes in this thread that results in RFRA cases turn on the judge's predilections on religious liberty regardless of the law's language. I have witnessed this lack of neutrality in several cases, most notably the ruling by Judge Randa in the Milwaukee

Re: RFRA, the Establishment Clause, and saving constructions

2013-12-03 Thread Marci Hamilton
Chip has cut to the chase (thank you) i would add that Eugene's reasoning further underscores how RFRA is in fact a non-ratified amendment to the First Amendment, as the Court pointed out in a footnote in Boerne. Advocates for it like Eugene cannot build in all the rules they like by

Re: RFRA, the Establishment Clause, and saving constructions

2013-12-03 Thread Marci Hamilton
From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Marci Hamilton Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2013 8:14 AM To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Cc: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: Re: RFRA, the Establishment Clause

Re: The clergy-penitent privilege and burdens on third parties

2013-12-05 Thread Marci Hamilton
It depends on the state actually. But generally the confession must be for spiritual/salvation purposes Marci A. Hamilton Verkuil Chair in Public Law Benjamin N. Cardozo Law School Yeshiva University @Marci_Hamilton On Dec 5, 2013, at 12:32 PM, Paul Horwitz phorw...@hotmail.com wrote: Is

Re: The clergy-penitent privilege and burdens on third parties

2013-12-07 Thread Marci Hamilton
Richard's point is fair so let me provide some more context that perhaps would be helpful. Privileges are concoctions of positive law dealing w what information can be excluded in the judicial process. The confessional privilege is no different than the attorney client privilege or the

Re: The clergy-penitent privilege and burdens on third parties

2013-12-07 Thread Marci Hamilton
of calling Catholics to abide by their own beliefs. Richard Dougherty University of Dallas On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 7:45 AM, Marci Hamilton hamilto...@aol.com wrote: Richard's point is fair so let me provide some more context that perhaps would be helpful. Privileges are concoctions

Re: Are large employers really better off dropping health insurance?

2013-12-18 Thread Marci Hamilton
This exchange, which shows both Marty and Eugene's high qualifications for public service, underscores how RFRA (and RLUIPA) turn federal courts into super legislatures and violate the separation of powers -- as Boerne ruled. No court in my view is institutionally competent to make these

Re: Are large employers really better off dropping health insurance?

2013-12-18 Thread Marci Hamilton
, Marci Hamilton hamilto...@aol.com wrote: This exchange, which shows both Marty and Eugene's high qualifications for public service, underscores how RFRA (and RLUIPA) turn federal courts into super legislatures and violate the separation of powers -- as Boerne ruled. No court in my view

Re: Are large employers really better off dropping health insurance?

2013-12-28 Thread Marci Hamilton
Free exercise on the Mountaintop illustrates well the problems with the theory that Smith was right On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 2:37 PM, Marci Hamilton hamilto...@aol.com wrote: This reasoning is based on the mythology created around the free exercise clause by the reactions to Smith

Re: courts and lawmaking

2013-12-28 Thread Marci Hamilton
Eugene- I take it you would not have overturned the Lochner line of cases? Your defense of unaccountable, robust policy making by judges would revive the federal court's role in those cases and reverse the reasoning of, eg, Williamson v lee optical.You have also failed to articulate any

Re: courts and lawmaking

2013-12-30 Thread Marci Hamilton
this standard, and possibly Baker v. Carr or Miranda. On Dec 28, 2013, at 10:51 PM, Marci Hamilton hamilto...@aol.commailto:hamilto...@aol.com wrote: Eugene- I take it you would not have overturned the Lochner line of cases? Your defense of unaccountable, robust policy making by judges would

Re: courts and lawmaking

2013-12-30 Thread Marci Hamilton
doing without free exercise issues. On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Marci Hamilton hamilto...@aol.com wrote: There needs to be more precision in the use of the term rights. RFRA is in fact an attempt by Congress to amend the Free Exercise Clause by simple majority vote

Re: courts and lawmaking

2013-12-30 Thread Marci Hamilton
Of Marci Hamilton Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 5:29 PM To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Cc: Law Religion issues for Law Academics (religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu) Subject: Re: courts and lawmaking Eugene- I take it you would not have overturned the Lochner line of cases? Your

Re: The nonprofit contraception services cases

2014-01-03 Thread Marci Hamilton
Marty-- could you please elaborate on your response? I am not following this exchange Thanks-- Marci Marci A. Hamilton Verkuil Chair in Public Law Benjamin N. Cardozo Law School Yeshiva University @Marci_Hamilton On Jan 3, 2014, at 12:43 PM, Marty Lederman lederman.ma...@gmail.com wrote:

RFRA's constitutionality

2014-01-04 Thread Marci Hamilton
Marty-- I apologize for missing this because I think it raises an important distinction. Thanks for raising it. I am saying in part that Smith supports a reading of beyond the judicial ken, but I was basing my argument more on the Court's structural jurisprudence (which Boerne fits

Re: RFRA's constitutionality

2014-01-05 Thread Marci Hamilton
their political nature and give the public the impression that the Supreme Court decides based on the preconceived views of those who become Justices. Jon On 2014-01-04 11:29, Marci Hamilton wrote: Marty-- I apologize for missing this because I

Re: RFRA's constitutionality

2014-01-05 Thread Marci Hamilton
the community. Judy Baer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 5, 2014, at 11:41 AM, Marci Hamilton hamilto...@aol.com wrote: Michael-- My answers are interlineated below 1. Congress never debated the contraception mandate as part of Obamacare. Thus the religious right never lost

Re: RFRA's constitutionality

2014-01-05 Thread Marci Hamilton
for girls to leave the community. Judy Baer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 5, 2014, at 11:41 AM, Marci Hamilton hamilto...@aol.com [13] wrote: Michael-- My answers are interlineated below 1. Congress never debated the contraception mandate as part of Obamacare. Thus the religious right

Re: The nonprofit contraception services cases

2014-01-06 Thread Marci Hamilton
of Justice Twitter: @RickGarnett From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Marci Hamilton Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 1:42 PM To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Cc: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: Re

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