Hi,
First, let me say that we are still new to the repeater business and learning
as we go. This the first time in 30 ham years that I have been involved with a
VHF repeater system.
Our repeater was working okay at 80 watts out of GE Mastr II and 60 watts out
of Duplexer. When I turn the
Sounds like a bad cable/connector. Are there any adaptors or elbows? They
could be suspect.
Chuck
WB2EDV
- Original Message -
From: W3ML w...@arrl.net
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 9:37 AM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] no power out of duplexer
What make and model is the duplexer? I know of one instance that the
loop inside the duplexer can come disconnected due to a bad solder
joint, but can't remember what one it was. A search on this list should
find it, as it was discussed recently.
The first thing would be to check all
Thanks Joe.
We did most of those and then found the problem. The T-connector center pin
had broken off when we apparently hooked up some test equipment and did not
notice it.
I still have one question though.
Is it normal to have 100 watts coming out of radio and only 70 watts coming out
WACOM specs their 6 cavity pass-reject cans at 2.2dB insertion loss. 2.0 dB
down from 100 watts is 63 watts, so you're doing good.
Remember, 3dB is going to take your power down 50%.
73,
Mike
WM4B
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On
I agree with Mike. 100 watts in, 70 watts out is about 1.5dB loss.
That looks very good for a Wacom. What is the model of your duplexer?
The WP-643 had a single bandpass can on each side that might change the
estimated loss.
Did you happen to look at the reflected power when you took the
Its size and location in the RF path suggests that it is an optional
preselector. It should have five adjustment screws with locknuts, and bear
the designation TFD1011 or TFD1012.
73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Depending on the frequency seperation it sounds like it is in the ball park.
Maybe even not enough loss. Quick in the head math short cut is that 1 db is
about 25%. That would give you 75 watts out of the duplexer for 100 watts in.
If it is 3 db, that is half power or 50 watts out for 100
I have a Micor base that was manufactured in the ham band. Model is
C64RXB3196A-SP71. The receiver model number is TRE1241A-SP10 (420-450 Mhz). It
came with 4 channels all tuned up and on frequency in the ham band. But the
receiver is sensitivity is .72 mv for 20 db quieting on the best channel
My guess is that it is the harmonic filter, with the left coax leading to the
pa or circulator if it has one...
.
bill
w4oo
.
.
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, wb5oxq wb5...@... wrote:
I just aquired a second msf5000 to make a 2 meter repeater our of and it has
a part
Tim,
Please confirm that you measured the sensitivity as 0.72 millivolts, or 720
uV- about 2400 times worse than the 0.3 uV you expect. Such a huge
disparity points to a failed transistor or a shorted capacitor on the
receive board. Perhaps your next step is to perform voltage checks and
Eric,
It's 0.72 microvolts. Not totally dead, just a bit numb.
--
Tim
:wq
On Sep 6, 2010, at 10:24 AM, Eric Lemmon wrote:
Please confirm that you measured the sensitivity as 0.72 millivolts, or 720
uV
There are shield covers on the RX board that need to be pulled off and have
the ground pins cleaned. I watched a Motorola service shop do that and the
sensitivity came back. He turned to me and said you'd have been forever
figuring that one out. Don't ask me why, but I saw it work.
Chuck
Ah, what a difference a factor of 1,000 makes! Okay, the manual spec is 0.5
uV without a preamp and 0.25 uV with a preamp, when using the 20 dB quieting
method, and 0.35 and 0.175 respectively when using the 12 dB SINAD method.
Try connecting your service monitor directly to the input jack on the
Hello Tim.
I think the specs on your Micor are 402-430, But I could be wrong.
What freq was it crystalled on before you retuned it?
Also what is the frequency you tuned it on now?
That gives us better information as to where it was and where you tuned it
to.
Butch, KE7FEL/r
On Mon, Sep 6, 2010
Stuff to try:
1. Verify that the LO multiplier chain is peaked correctly. I've
seen a bunch of these that exhibit this symptom that had mistuned
LO chains.
2. Feed the test signal into the RX directly. If you see good
sensitivity, you know where to looks ;-)
3. Take
Yes,
I have used it when I need a simplex station
John, K4AG
gabriel wrote:
Hello
Just for stats, does anyone use the SIMPLEX software by F6DQM to manage its
repeater ?
Gab
I'm getting about 0.35 for 12 db SINAD. But that looks about 10 db quieting to
me. What I typically do is open the squelch with no signal and set the volume
to 2 Vac then crank up the signal to 0.2 vac. Isn't that 20 db, or am I missing
something?
--
Tim
:wq
On Sep 6, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Eric
2V AC down to .2 v. AC is 20 DB quieting
John VE3AMZ
- Original Message -
From: Tim Sawyer
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity
I'm getting about 0.35 for 12 db SINAD. But that
Hi Joe,
I have a CN-801 Daiwa and it showed 0.1 on reflected side.
So that is not too bad.
Wacom model is 639 -6
We have no desense and a range of about 30 miles at best in all directions.
We were not wanting a large area of coverage, as it is used for the county
emergency RACES/ARES
Mike, Joe and Ralph,
Thank you all for the great information about the power loss. As I stated
earlier, I am still earning about this repeater stuff. In the past year and
half I have learned more about repeaters than I knew in the first 29 years of
being a ham.
It is great! I believe one
Yea, I think 20 db quieting is more like 0.175 uV 12 db SINAD.
--
Tim
:wq
On Sep 6, 2010, at 12:52 PM, John J. Riddell wrote:
2V AC down to .2 v. AC is 20 DB quieting
In that spirit. Going from 80 to 100 watts is 0.97 db better. That's probably
not an improvement your users will notice. When one considers what a pain it is
when the PA dies, it might not be worth it. Just my 2 cents but I think you're
better off leaving the amp at 80 watts.
--
Tim
:wq
On Sep
Okay Tim.
That sounds like a wise idea especially since we have an old GE Mastr II and
may not take much use at full power out.
Thanks and 73
John, W3ML
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Tim Sawyer tisaw...@... wrote:
In that spirit. Going from 80 to 100 watts is 0.97 db better.
John, here's a more subtle lesson on repeaters, and it has nothing to do with
hardware...
If you dial the power back 1 dB, your PA may be much happier.
If you simultaneously change the courtesy beep to be 10% faster, users will ask
you what's changed on the repeater. Tell them you've increased
Hi,
70 watts out sounds OK. Duplexer's usually have about a 1 - 2db loss
depends how they are set up, size of cavities etc and the model type.
Duplexer loss = 10log(Pin/Pout) Duplexer Loss = 10Log(70/100)=
-1.54dB.
Peter
On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 10:54 AM, W3ML w...@arrl.net
The Micor book says less than 0.5 uV for 20db quieting or 0.35 for 12 db SINAD.
So the two are in fact equivalent. I get better than 0.35 for 12 db SINAD but I
don't measure 0.5 for 20 db quieting. I must be doing something wrong.
--
Tim
:wq
On Sep 6, 2010, at 12:52 PM, John J. Riddell wrote:
Paul speaks the truth.
I had one fellow who always insisted something was wrong with the repeater
when the foliage came on the trees every spring. I tried to explain to him
that the leaves and humidity were attenuating the signal and that it was
just a fact of life for the fringe-area users.
Not all voltmeters behave the same with complex AC waveforms (such as
noise). Some of my Flukes are inaccurate at higher AC frequencies (like
above a few hundred Hz) - and they're spec'ed that way. What kind of meter
are you using, and where are you measuring (speaker terminals is where you
I agree. Put it back to the original output. I always like to turn
my stuff back at least 10%.
Turn the beep tone up in volume, tell them you increased the power. see
what they say.
73, Joe, K1ike
On 9/6/2010 5:04 PM, Paul Plack wrote:
John, here's a more subtle lesson on repeaters,
Or speed up the CWID one or two WPM, or change to a slightly higher tone
frequency. Top 40 stations sometimes still do this trick (pitching up their
CD players or automation system playback speed maybe 1%) - some PD's are
convinced that it improves ratings for one reason or another...
I have tried with 3 volt meters and 2 SINAD meters: a Fluke 77, a Sinadder 3
(SINAD AC voltmeter) and a HP8924c. Pretty much same results with all. That
is 20 db quieting around 0.7 uV, SINAD around 0.35. So what's the recommended
meter? Should I trust the SINAD reading and chock the quieting
I have tried with 3 volt meters and 2 SINAD meters: a Fluke
77, a Sinadder 3 (SINAD AC voltmeter) and a HP8924c.
Pretty much same results with all. That is 20 db quieting
around 0.7 uV, SINAD around 0.35. So what's the recommended
meter? Should I trust the SINAD reading and chock the
Readers interested in this thread may find the following articles to be
relevant:
www.repeater-builder.com/measuring-sensitivity/measuring-sensitivity.html
www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/receiversensitivity.html
73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
-Original Message-
From:
Anyone have one of the above they wish to part with? We have reason
to suspect the PA in our repeater.
It has developed various intermittent behaviors (dropping carrier,
distorted audio, varying output, etc.) ..
I believe this to be the 60 watt PA for the GE Mastr II Exec II
mobile radio
I believe you are talking about an Exec II.
Several places to check before replacing the PA.
A common problem is the jumper between the exciter and the PA. The RCA
connectors sometimes go intermittent. Also, if the TR relay hasn't been
jumpered, it could have gone intermittent.
Chuck
WB2EDV
Guys .I have a similar problem with 2 repeaters but its in the receiver side
.The maxon sm4450uhf receiver is tuned to the best it can be on the service
monitor -115db and the bpbr duplexer is tuned to correct specs as far as I
can see on the hp8921a .I have also tested the repeater in duplex mode
Larry -
This is either an Exec II or a Mastr II - two different radios. The Exec II
mobile is 'gray' and has a plastic, non-movable handle. The Mastr II mobile
has a foldable handle. Which one do you have?
Chuck
WB2EDV
- Original Message -
From: Larry Wagoner
Larry,
You have it right- the 19D424089G1 PA is rated at 60 watts over the 132-174
MHz band, with an external relay, and is found in the Mastr Executive II
radio. LBI-30253 covers it:
www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-30352c.pdf
The symptoms you describe may also be caused by a
Larry,
You have it right- the 19D424089G1 PA is rated at 60 watts over the 132-174
MHz band, and is found in the Mastr Executive II radio. LBI-30253 covers
it:
www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-30352c.pdf
The symptoms you describe may also be caused by a problem in the exciter or
the
At 07:52 PM 9/6/2010, you wrote:
I believe you are talking about an Exec II.
Yes ...
Several places to check before replacing the PA.
A common problem is the jumper between the exciter and the PA. The RCA
connectors sometimes go intermittent. Also, if the TR relay hasn't been
jumpered, it could
At 07:41 PM 9/6/2010, you wrote:
This is either an Exec II or a Mastr II - two different radios. The Exec II
mobile is 'gray' and has a plastic, non-movable handle. The Mastr II mobile
has a foldable handle. Which one do you have?
OK - That would make this an Exec II - converted by MCC in
At 08:05 PM 9/6/2010, you wrote:
You have it right- the 19D424089G1 PA is rated at 60 watts over the 132-174
MHz band, with an external relay, and is found in the Mastr Executive II
radio. LBI-30253 covers it:
www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-30352c.pdf
The symptoms you describe may
Yes, it is a DVP station. I have the DVP manual and I just checked the spec.
It's the same 0.5 uV for 20 dBQ. The test procedure does say to load the
speaker. I'll give that a try tomorrow.
--
Tim
:wq
On Sep 6, 2010, at 8:17 PM, Jeff DePolo wrote:
The SP docs show it being a DVP station.
Jeff,
The DVP Micor uses a TRN8095A AS board, while the non-DVP stations use the
TRN6006A board. The only differences involve the values of C231, C232,
C233, C234, R234, and R237 which is used only on the DVP board. These
components are all clustered at Test Points 12, 13, 14, and 15 on the
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