-
From: Johnny Berlin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 8:52 PM
To: Mark Wales; soaring@airage.com
Subject: Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject
3999 ft. 2004 Nats cross contry scale..Pegasus tow plane
Johnny
RCSE-List facilities provided
if it is a 1/3 scale. We need to get out of the way.
JD
Endless Mountain Models
http://www.scalesoaring.com
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: Martin Usher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 1:21 AM
To: soaring@airage.com
Subject: Re: [RCSE] High
I was there, its true, as I heard the Altimeter (Picolario) report back !
It was a good weekend for the New Nats Schedule.
IMOHO
--Jack Strother Granger, IN LSF 2948 LSF Level V #117 LSF Official 1996 - 2004 CSS Gold
-- Original message -- On 1/17/05 17:51 Johnny Berlin
In a message dated 1/18/2005 6:14:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I am not
doubting the good eyes, I have see Johnny B. tow too very highaltitudes,
but a Pegasus at 4000' agl is invisible. I will gladly standcorrected if
someone can prove or verify these kinds
First, I want to admit that I just stepped onto this thread.
Now, for my $.02 worth..
First, and formost, I believe that we as modelers, are supposed to fly in
areas where we don't expect to find full size aircraft (including
gliders). I read this to mean that we don't fly near airports, and we
Anyone know the ground elevation in this area?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I was there, its true, as I heard the Altimeter (Picolario) report back !
It was a good weekend for the New Nats Schedule.
IMOHO
--
Jack Strother
Granger, IN
LSF 2948
LSF Level V #117
LSF Official 1996 - 2004
CSS Gold
[EMAIL PROTECTED] on 1-18-05 7:20 AM wrote:
The first source of error, the accuracy of the altimeter's pressure sensing,
is what can be calibrated. [...]
The second source of error, the atmospheric model, [...]
The third source of error is probably the greatest one, and that is a
The Picolario calibrates itself to ground level, and all altitudes reported
are relative to where it was switched on.
Anker
At 08:47 AM 1/18/2005, Ben Diss wrote:
Anyone know the ground elevation in this area?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I was there, its true, as I heard the Altimeter (Picolario)
Standard GPS error (drift) can be as high as 16 meters due to the geometry
of the constellation and path link errors in the atmosphere. The new WAAS
enabled GPS receivers are supposed to be accurate within 3 meters 90% of
the time. They use a ground based reference signal to give a more
AGL ??
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:42:32 -0700, Howard Mark
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Oh... from a winch?
7,717 feet. July 31 2004.
RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and
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Yes 7,717 feet AGL -- about 13,000 feet above sea level (Boulder, Co is about
5300')
-Original Message-
From: jon stone [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 9:31 AM
To: Howard Mark
Cc: soaring@airage.com
Subject: Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject
AGL
On Tue, Jan 18, 2005 at 06:13:27AM -0500, John Derstine wrote:
| With one of those Piccilario altimeters?? :-) We really need to test our
| altitude measuring devices somehow.
If you feel that your altimeter is grossly innaccurate, it's easy
enough to test by just driving around with it and a
I agree, There was one time that a Cesna was flying around our field
watching my SB-XC in the air, after about 10 min. of his persistent
fly around's of the field ( aprox 300+ acer's ) I landed, to me he was
becoming a hazard, even tho I had a spotter with me I was becoming
uncomfortable with him
At 11:27 AM 1/18/2005, Lighthorse wrote:
I agree, There was one time that a Cesna was flying around our field
watching my SB-XC in the air, after about 10 min. of his persistent
fly around's of the field ( aprox 300+ acer's ) I landed, to me he was
becoming a hazard,
I fly in rolling hill country.
They can tell the distance, in fact it would be a pretty naive pilot not to
recognize the model was indeed a model. I have been on the receiving end in a
206, a model aircraft does indeed looks and acts like a model. Given a larger
model (as in much) would emulate fullsize much closer, the
Being close to uncontrolled airspace should read; being close the CONTROLLED
airspace!
Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
They can tell the distance, in fact it would be a pretty naive pilot not to
recognize the model was indeed a model. I have been on the receiving end in a
206, a model
To: soaring@airage.com
Subject: close encounters of the aircraft kind: was Re: [RCSE] High
Altitude Glider
I fly in rolling hill country. Last season I was out by myself with a
2M. I had the plane wy up but not too far out and was puttering about
when I heard a serious sound come up very quickly
I occasionally fly at a farm that is about 20 miles from a local Air
National Guard facility. They fly their A-10 Warthog training missions
all around the local area, plus the farm is within the approach pattern
for Westover AFB (they are very high on approach, no danger). Actually
lots of my
]
-Original Message-
From: Doug McLaren [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 12:46 PM
To: John Derstine
Cc: 'Johnny Berlin'; 'Mark Wales'; soaring@airage.com
Subject: Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject
If you feel that your altimeter is grossly innaccurate
Yeah, I know that to be true Johnny...
Endless Mountain Models
http://www.scalesoaring.com
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: Johnny Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Bill Malvey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: [RCSE] High
Above Ground Level AGL.
.bcAG4YQ Williamsburg, VA
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005, jon stone wrote:
AGL ??
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:42:32 -0700, Howard Mark
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Oh... from a winch?
7,717 feet. July 31 2004.
RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane
Probably true, sense I have not seen a scale ship from a cockpit of
a plane. Most of my planes are over 4m so It does get a little unnerving
when they loiter, which has only happened twice to me.
--
Ken
York County Soaring
Lighthorse Team YCS
Silence is Golden
RCSE-List facilities provided by
I agree, There was one time that a Cesna was flying around our field
watching my SB-XC in the air, after about 10 min. of his persistent fly
around's of
the field ( aprox 300+ acer's )
It can get pretty dicey at times. In the 60's the old Arc's field situated
about seven miles from
Location is the key. I fly a beach slope which is close to two training
airports. This means it has a steady flow of new, full scale pilots
showing
off their new skills but poor judgement.
The local slope in Bellingham, Wa. is literally about 1/4 Mile from the end
of
the runway of the
-680-1141
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: soaring@airage.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: close encounters of the aircraft kind: was Re: [RCSE] High
Altitude Glider
|
| Location is the key. I fly a beach slope which is close to two
training
Jim,
I've seen this site before. Projects like this are the reason that the
FAA wants to regulate UAVs (and RC aircraft) flying under autopilot or
video downlink. This case is specifically mentioned when they talk
about having to control any aircraft in their airspace. It doesn't
apply to RC
: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider
Jim,
I've seen this site before. Projects like this are the reason that the
FAA wants to regulate UAVs (and RC aircraft) flying under autopilot or
video downlink. This case is specifically mentioned when they talk
about having to control any aircraft
Hi Mark,
Actually, there is an FAA AC 91-57 that 400' is the
limit(http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdviso
ryCircular.nsf/0/1acfc3f689769a56862569e70077c9cc?OpenDocument). As
you'll see in the document, how close you are to an airport has no
bearing on the altitude
Actuall, here's a link to the doc on the FAA site. Much easier to read.
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCirc
ular.nsf/0/1acfc3f689769a56862569e70077c9cc/$FILE/ATTBJMAC/ac91-57.pdf
Jim
RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and
Record 2004
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 11:17 AM
To: Howard Mark; soaring@airage.com
Subject: RE: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider
Actuall, here's a link to the doc on the FAA site. Much easier to read.
http
Pilot Cer # 1974253
LSF V #115
US F3B Altitude Record 2004
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 11:17 AM
To: Howard Mark; soaring@airage.com
Subject: RE: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider
Actuall, here's a link to the doc on the FAA
A buddy stumbled upon this site. Interesting, anyone familiar withthe chaps
who attempted this project? http://members.shaw.ca/sonde/index.htm
I was loosely involved with a similar project about 6 years ago,
I designed a specific airfram for a 120K' drop with the intent of
establishing a glide
time.
The AC encourages voluntary compliance. Violations have no legal
ramifications.
Mark
-Original Message-
From: Ben Diss [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 12:46 PM
To: Howard Mark
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; soaring@airage.com
Subject: Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider
Title: Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject
Mark Wales on 1-17-05 3:50 PM wrote:
Myself:
In Aug 1995 my Windsong hit 3740 ft AGL. Never want to try that again.
Mark
How big is that Windsong to be able to see it that high?
--
Jim Holliman -- Tulsa, Oklahoma
AMA TULSOAR
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: Howard Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 4:53 PM
To: Ben Diss
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; soaring@airage.com
Subject: RE: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider
Ben,
In any event, if you are not a FAA licensed
Question:
How would the average modeler ever know about a given local FAR, NOTAM,
etc? law or not it is not likely we would be aware of said regulation.
John,
I think the answer is to educate the full-scale folks about the
capabilities of model aircraft and establish procedures for
You are right -- if we ask the
FAA if it's OK to fly at 3000 ft - they will say NO! That's because they don't
understand models and are not responsible for their operations.
This has not been my experience. Here in SOCAL we have worked with the SOCAL
Airspace Manager on a few occasions to
: Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider
It does have some legal power as it show the intent of the FAA.
Judges can use these when interpreting FARs. Still, there is no FAR
that regulates models so I'm not sure any of this matters. In any
event, if you are not a FAA licensed pilot or an airplane owner
Mountain Models
http://www.scalesoaring.com
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: Howard Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 6:04 PM
To: John Derstine; soaring@airage.com
Subject: RE: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider
Question:
How would the average
In any event, if you are not a FAA licensed pilot or an airplane owner the FAA has no means of enforcing anything against you. (Howard Mark)
I wouldn't bet on it, myself.
One of the Southern California soaring clubs (EDSF) had a run-in with a low
flying aircraft which effectively lost them the
On Mon, Jan 17, 2005 at 05:27:02PM -0500, John Derstine wrote:
| How would the average modeler ever know about a given local FAR, NOTAM,
| etc? law or not it is not likely we would be aware of said regulation.
`Ignorance of the law is no excuse.'
Like it or not, some NOTAMs do seem to be
Ben,
This should answer your question concerning FAA penalties for FAR violations:
http://www.agl.faa.gov/publicaffairs/HowWork/Civil.doc
As I said, penalties for violating FAR's can be levied on anyone - not just
pilots.
FAA regulation violations carry no criminal penalty per se. However many
]
-Original Message-
From: Doug McLaren [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 6:52 PM
To: John Derstine
Cc: soaring@airage.com
Subject: Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider
On Mon, Jan 17, 2005 at 05:27:02PM -0500, John Derstine wrote:
| How would the average modeler ever
Sorry Mark, but reading that simply supports my point. The FAA can't do
anything to a non-pilot. Your example below would require a Federal
criminal prosecutor to file charges in Federal court. The FAA does not
do this. The FAA's enforcement is with penalties and sanctions against
pilots.
Hi JD,
It's the FAA's opinion that we should know about the rules, NOTAMs, etc
and should find out by our self. There have been several postings on
RCUniverse about the subject and the FAA individual say the info (i.e.
the AC) is out there and it's our responsibility to find it. Typical
What really bites is if they do enforce the 400' limit
how we going to fly our scale ships. I myself have a
4.5m Discus, 5.3m DG 1000, and a RnR SB-XC.
imagine winching off at 399' and stay at or below
the 400' level for an hour flight. I tried th launch
and kick off about 400' I had trouble
On 1/17/05 17:38 Lighthorse wrote:
What really bites is if they do enforce the 400' limit
how we going to fly our scale ships.
I sincerely doubt that they ever will, and it is questionable what they
would do in the first place. What I would do is to make sure I did not
attract attention to
Using the Skymelody, Flying the SB-XC, by RnR, I reached 1500m,
Way to high, When I brought the plane down The last reading from
that fine German girl was 650m, almost immediately after the plane
blew up. according to RnR and xcsoaring I was in excess of 150 mph
and flutter took over. Hence I am
3999 ft. 2004 Nats cross contry scale..Pegasus tow plane
Johnny
- Original Message -
From: Mark Wales [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: soaring@airage.com
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 3:50 PM
Subject: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject
Those of you out there flying with altimitters.
On 1/17/05 17:51 Johnny Berlin wrote:
3999 ft. 2004 Nats cross contry scale..Pegasus tow plane
I wish I had your eyes. Assuming no slant range on the plane, that is like
looking at a 1/4-inch line from 10 feet away. And that would be the
wingspan!!
~~~
Bill Malvey
I should have said, Launched from a winch.
--
Ken
York County Soaring
Lighthorse Team YCS
Silence is Golden
RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and
unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and
unsubscribe messages must be sent in
My point exactly.
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:47:16 -0800, Bill Malvey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 1/17/05 17:38 Lighthorse wrote:
What really bites is if they do enforce the 400' limit
how we going to fly our scale ships.
I sincerely doubt that they ever will, and it is questionable what
Message-
From: Johnny Berlin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 8:52 PM
To: Mark Wales; soaring@airage.com
Subject: Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject
3999 ft. 2004 Nats cross contry scale..Pegasus tow plane
Johnny
- Original Message -
From
Title: Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject
Oh... from a winch?
7,717 feet. July 31 2004.
Mark
From: Lighthorse
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Mon 1/17/2005 6:58 PMTo:
Mark WalesCc: soaring@airage.comSubject: Re: [RCSE] High
Altitude Glider/off subject
I should have said
If you are not flying in the area of full size traffic and the risk of that
happening is low, I would not lose a lot of sleep over this. (Bill Malvey)
If you are out in the sticks flying one of those big scale ships you're going
to look just like any other traffic to a passing plane. They should
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