Re: [Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way?
Hello, Keith and Rob. The water content in FAME according to EN 14214 is set to 500 ppm. In the long run you will have problems if the water content exceeds 0,5% and if the water content exceeds the percentage level, the problems will occur quickly and rising. BD is basically not storable for more than three months keeping an acceptable quality. Jan Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way? Hello Jan, Rob It is not recommendable with water together with SVO, WVO or BD for that matter. The oils consist from esters which are sensible to hydrolysis. This means that parts of the oil will crack by the influence of water. A water content too high will cause: 1) Severe filter clogging problems since many of the compounds formed by the hydrolysis are in solid shape, not liquid. 2) Corrosion in the fuel system, since many of the hydrolysis products are bound to be sour. Once hydrolosis has taken its course perhaps. But there is always water in biodiesel. The various standards set upper limits of 500-600ppm, but Camillo Holecek of Energea in Austria told us that no matter how dry you get it, it will quickly reabsorb water from the atmosphere to an average of about 1,500ppm, and that's what you'll have in the tank. That seems to be correct, and it doesn't seem to hasten hydrolosis. Frankly, I'm beginning to think all the cautions about degraded biodiesel are a myth, because I can't persuade any to degrade, and I'm not the only one. Maybe it has more to do with the commercial industry's use of the petro-diesel storage and delivery infastructure, which isn't all that great. We've had this discussion here about water content, water emulsions and water injection before a few times, there is quite a lot of information in the archives. For instance: http://www.dieselnet.com/ Water in Diesel Combustion [subscriber access] DieselNet Technology Guide È Engine Design for Low Emissions Water in Diesel Combustion Abstract: Addition of water to the diesel process decreases combustion temperatures and lowers NOx emissions. The most common methods of introducing water are direct injection into the cylinder, a process commercialized in certain marine and stationary diesel engines, and water-in-fuel emulsions. Emulsified fuels, due to increased mixing in the diesel diffusion flame, can be also effective in simultaneous reduction of PM and NOx emissions. Addition of Water to Diesel Process Fumigation of Water into Intake Air Direct Injection of Water Fuel Emulsions Practical Embodiments [more...] http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20041115/002962.html Water Emulsions - Water-fuel emulsions are one of the few methods that can simultaneously control PM and NOx emissions. Depending on the engine, emulsions containing 20% water can reduce PM emissions by as much as 50%. It should be noted that other methods of water addition, such as direct injection, are not effective in controlling PM. http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/37764/ [Scroll down.] Here's a roundup below of some stuff we've had previously and some other stuff, on both water injection and water-fuel emulsions... http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/30409/ The US EPA lists 23 studies of water emulsions with dino-diesel: Following is a list of studies that are being considered for inclusion in work being done by EPA to assess the effects of water-fuel emulsions on emissions of oxides of nitrogen (NOx), hydrocarbons (HC), and particulate matter (PM). http://www.epa.gov/otaq/models/analysis/emulsion/emulbibl.pdf We've also had reports of successful use of biodiesel-alcohol-water mixes in Australia, on quite a large scale. As for hydrolosis, you're probably quite safe if you use it in a month or two, probably longer. Joe, re WVO: Hello to all: I'm wondering if anyone is using WVO and drying it before use. I filter it and it looks brite and clear but I worry that there may be water disolved in the oil. Is there a simple test for water content? Is there a simple method of removing moisture? I don't want to heat 50 gallons to 150C. Searching..___ Heat it to 60 deg C for 15 minutes then let it settle, at least overnight; draw from the top. Heating to high temps like 150 deg C can lock that water in there rather than boiling it off. If 60 deg C doesn't work you probably shouldn't be using that oil in an SVO system - find better oil. 60 deg C is safer too, no steam explosions. A quick test is to heat a little of the oil in a saucepan; if there's water it will start to crackle at 50 deg C or less; if it reaches 60-65 deg C and still no crackling then you don't have a water problem
[Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way
Hi, I haven't tried this yet so it is only theory. I bought an old cream seperator(Centrifuge) and I am going to filter the wvo first then run it through the seperator and hopefully seperate any water from the WVO. Also going to try and recover Methy that way. Did you see the news on CNN that there is a country that makes a national drink from methanol called raki. WOW! ethanol is bad enough , but drink methanol that is absolutely redicilous. I'm sure the Lebanese, Turks and others would agree with you. Raki (arak) is not made from methanol but from ethanol, using the usual fermentation-distillation process. From the Distillers list: Arak, the Lebanese anise flavored liquor was first mentioned in msg 1261 and 1262. Seeing that a source of the method of makin arak and quantities used is rare, I will quote the 'Distilling Raki' from 'Rayess Art of Lebanese Cooking' by George N. Rayess, which I found in Google groups. Method: Grapes are gathered and are crushed and put with all their elements (seeds, stems, juice etc...) into wells or wooden barrels or glazed earthernware barrels stored inside. It is stirred well once a day for 15 days until it ferments. The sign of that is the appearance of foam on top of it. Then discontinue stirring and leave it set till no more foam appears and the top of the juice appears clear by the rest of the elements having settled at the bottom. Now pour all the mixture into the distilling vessel, the 'karaki'. Distil over very low heat until all alcohol is drawn out of it. Now pour out all the remains in the karaki and wash it well. The next day, pour in the karaki the following proportions: For each 6 gallons of alcohol, add 4 gallons of water and 11 pounds of aniseed. Stir all this well then seal the karaki well with flour paste or dough so that none of the steam may escape. Put the karaki over low heat and when it starts dripping, cut off heat for 24 hours until aniseed is well soaked in the alcohol. Then put on high heat until it starts distilling, then reduce heat until arak starts dripping with quick but disconnected drops. Water in top part of karaki must remain cool throughout entire operation before it gets hot. When the color of arak starts turning white, put aside what has already been distilled. Increase heat and repeat the operation. Distilling is stopped when the amount of alcohol in the arak has become very weak. The last portions distilled are added to the first portions. Arak is stored in large containers painted on the inside. Store for three months or longer until it has cleared and mellowed. If stored in glass containers, it requires over four months for it to become good enough for use. At this point add enough water to reduce the rate of alcohol so that its content measures 21 according to an alcohol measure. With a recipe like this, it sounds like a great Lebanese cookbook! Wal And: 2 commercial Lebanese arak sites that describe the process: 'El Massaya Arack' http://www.massaya.com/arakfrm.htm 'Arak Fakra' http://www.chateaufakra.com/FakraENG/earak.htm Wal I think there's more in their archives. Best wishes Keith Yours truly John Wilson Goldens *** Wilsonia Farm Kennel Preserve ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way
Hello Norm. The centrifuge itself is calibrated for water, so its capacity with oil is a trial and error project. But unless the centrifuge is equipped with a feed pump, one has to go for a pump with adjustable capacity for starters. And be precise when choosing the gravity disc and the seal ring size at the outlet. Everything is working properly when you have sludge and water coming out of one outlet and pure oil from the other outlet. Never use a centrifuge or separator working with a water seal. The water content can be determined with a kit from ExxonMobil, Mobil water test kit. Best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Gmail - GaitedRidge [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way Hi Jan, When you say : /heat the water/WVO mix to 75-90oC and run it as a round circuit until the water content drops to a sufficiently low level./ From the above statement I envision a closed system like a hot water tank type heater with an attached pump slowly circulating the WVO. What flow rate would you consider appropriate when shopping for a pump to do this and how are measuring the water content? Regards Norm Fillion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Manitoba - Hi John. In order to separate water from WVO by using a centrifuge, the most efficient way is to heat the water/WVO mix to 75-90oC and run it as a round circuit until the water content drops to a sufficiently low level. Best rgrds Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: John Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 3:01 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way Hi, I haven't tried this yet so it is only theory. I bought an old cream seperator(Centrifuge) and I am going to filter the wvo first then run it through the seperator and hopefully seperate any water from the WVO. Also going to try and recover Methy that way. Did you see the news on CNN that there is a country that makes a national drink from methanol called raki. WOW! ethanol is bad enough , but drink methanol that is absolutely redicilous. Yours truly John Wilson Goldens *** snip... ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way?
different results. Hello, Keith and Rob. The water content in FAME according to EN 14214 is set to 500 ppm. In the long run you will have problems if the water content exceeds 0,5% and if the water content exceeds the percentage level, the problems will occur quickly and rising. BD is basically not storable for more than three months keeping an acceptable quality. Maybe especially if it's made from high-iodine value oils? Best wishes Keith Jan Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way? Hello Jan, Rob It is not recommendable with water together with SVO, WVO or BD for that matter. The oils consist from esters which are sensible to hydrolysis. This means that parts of the oil will crack by the influence of water. A water content too high will cause: 1) Severe filter clogging problems since many of the compounds formed by the hydrolysis are in solid shape, not liquid. 2) Corrosion in the fuel system, since many of the hydrolysis products are bound to be sour. Once hydrolosis has taken its course perhaps. But there is always water in biodiesel. The various standards set upper limits of 500-600ppm, but Camillo Holecek of Energea in Austria told us that no matter how dry you get it, it will quickly reabsorb water from the atmosphere to an average of about 1,500ppm, and that's what you'll have in the tank. That seems to be correct, and it doesn't seem to hasten hydrolosis. Frankly, I'm beginning to think all the cautions about degraded biodiesel are a myth, because I can't persuade any to degrade, and I'm not the only one. Maybe it has more to do with the commercial industry's use of the petro-diesel storage and delivery infastructure, which isn't all that great. We've had this discussion here about water content, water emulsions and water injection before a few times, there is quite a lot of information in the archives. For instance: http://www.dieselnet.com/ Water in Diesel Combustion [subscriber access] DieselNet Technology Guide È Engine Design for Low Emissions Water in Diesel Combustion Abstract: Addition of water to the diesel process decreases combustion temperatures and lowers NOx emissions. The most common methods of introducing water are direct injection into the cylinder, a process commercialized in certain marine and stationary diesel engines, and water-in-fuel emulsions. Emulsified fuels, due to increased mixing in the diesel diffusion flame, can be also effective in simultaneous reduction of PM and NOx emissions. Addition of Water to Diesel Process Fumigation of Water into Intake Air Direct Injection of Water Fuel Emulsions Practical Embodiments [more...] http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20041115/002962.html Water Emulsions - Water-fuel emulsions are one of the few methods that can simultaneously control PM and NOx emissions. Depending on the engine, emulsions containing 20% water can reduce PM emissions by as much as 50%. It should be noted that other methods of water addition, such as direct injection, are not effective in controlling PM. http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/37764/ [Scroll down.] Here's a roundup below of some stuff we've had previously and some other stuff, on both water injection and water-fuel emulsions... http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/30409/ The US EPA lists 23 studies of water emulsions with dino-diesel: Following is a list of studies that are being considered for inclusion in work being done by EPA to assess the effects of water-fuel emulsions on emissions of oxides of nitrogen (NOx), hydrocarbons (HC), and particulate matter (PM). http://www.epa.gov/otaq/models/analysis/emulsion/emulbibl.pdf We've also had reports of successful use of biodiesel-alcohol-water mixes in Australia, on quite a large scale. As for hydrolosis, you're probably quite safe if you use it in a month or two, probably longer. Joe, re WVO: Hello to all: I'm wondering if anyone is using WVO and drying it before use. I filter it and it looks brite and clear but I worry that there may be water disolved in the oil. Is there a simple test for water content? Is there a simple method of removing moisture? I don't want to heat 50 gallons to 150C. Searching..___ Heat it to 60 deg C for 15 minutes then let it settle, at least overnight; draw from the top. Heating to high temps like 150 deg C can lock that water in there rather than boiling it off. If 60 deg C doesn't work you probably shouldn't be using that oil in an SVO system - find better oil. 60 deg C is safer too, no steam explosions. A quick test is to heat a little of the oil in a saucepan; if there's water it will start to crackle at 50
Re: [Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way
Hi John. In order to separate water from WVO by using a centrifuge, the most efficient way is to heat the water/WVO mix to 75-90oC and run it as a round circuit until the water content drops to a sufficiently low level. Best rgrds Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: John Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 3:01 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way Hi, I haven't tried this yet so it is only theory. I bought an old cream seperator(Centrifuge) and I am going to filter the wvo first then run it through the seperator and hopefully seperate any water from the WVO. Also going to try and recover Methy that way. Did you see the news on CNN that there is a country that makes a national drink from methanol called raki. WOW! ethanol is bad enough , but drink methanol that is absolutely redicilous. Yours truly John Wilson Goldens *** Wilsonia Farm Kennel Preserve Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph-Fax (902)665-2386) Web: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/new.htm Pups: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/pup.htm Politics: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/elect.htm http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/c68.htm In Nova Scotia smoking permitted in designated areas only until 9:00 PM . After 9:00 it is okey to kill everyone. ^^^ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way?
It is not recommendable with water together with SVO, WVO or BD for that matter. The oils consist from esters which are sensible to hydrolysis. This means that parts of the oil will crack by the influence of water. A water content too high will cause: 1) Severe filter clogging problems since many of the compounds formed by the hydrolysis are in solid shape, not liquid. 2) Corrosion in the fuel system, since many of the hydrolysis products are bound to be sour. Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: R Del Bueno [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way? This is a good question. I have found that gravity will take most of the free water out in time. Warming the oil to about 140degF speeds up the process. The use of a centrifuge speeds it up even further (but can be costly unless you stumble into a good deal on one). I know some folks are using some vacuum setups to lower the boiling point, and using flash evaporators and or thin film evaporators, but I wonder if it is needed. (As a side question...how much more efficient is a vacuum assisted evaporator from a total energy usage standpoint, than just heat, after all one must use energy to create the vacuum?) There still seems to be some debate over how dry the oil needs to be. For WVO/SVO fuel systems, I am not positive that small quantities of water are all that problematic...after all there are water injection systems out there, and a few companies that sell diesel /water emulsifiers in order to suspend water into diesel fuel as a method of altering combustion temperature to reduce NOX emissions. So from a combustion standpoint..seems that small amounts of water will simply turn to steam. Free water over time can collect in the fuel system and cause freeze issues, and corrode internal components of injection systems...but if you are running a dual tank WVO system, switching back to diesel prior to shutdown, there should not be water sitting in the injection system. Does a small amount of water affect the lubricity value of the WVO?..perhaps..but with the initial lubricity of WVO being so high, I suspect there is a bit of room to play. So far I have been running 10 micron filtered gravity settled oil (about a week at around 70degF) with a heated waterblock type filter in vehicle. Very little, if any water collects in the clear bowl. I have yet to run into any problems that indicate water problems...but only topping out at around 10k miles..so nothing definitive. I understand the need to dry WVO for biodiesel production, but wonder how needed it is for straight WVO as fuel. -Rob At 08:30 PM 3/8/2005, you wrote: Hello to all: I'm wondering if anyone is using WVO and drying it before use. I filter it and it looks brite and clear but I worry that there may be water disolved in the oil. Is there a simple test for water content? Is there a simple method of removing moisture? I don't want to heat 50 gallons to 150C. Searching..___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way
When you say : /heat the water/WVO mix to 75-90oC and run it as a round circuit until the water content drops to a sufficiently low level./ From the above statement I envision a closed system like a hot water tank type heater with an attached pump slowly circulating the WVO. What flow rate would you consider appropriate when shopping for a pump to do this and how are measuring the water content? Regards Norm Fillion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Manitoba - Hi John. In order to separate water from WVO by using a centrifuge, the most efficient way is to heat the water/WVO mix to 75-90oC and run it as a round circuit until the water content drops to a sufficiently low level. Best rgrds Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: John Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 3:01 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way Hi, I haven't tried this yet so it is only theory. I bought an old cream seperator(Centrifuge) and I am going to filter the wvo first then run it through the seperator and hopefully seperate any water from the WVO. Also going to try and recover Methy that way. Did you see the news on CNN that there is a country that makes a national drink from methanol called raki. WOW! ethanol is bad enough , but drink methanol that is absolutely redicilous. Yours truly John Wilson Goldens *** snip... ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way?
It is not recommendable with water together with SVO, WVO or BD for that matter. The oils consist from esters which are sensible to hydrolysis. This means that parts of the oil will crack by the influence of water. A water content too high will cause: 1) Severe filter clogging problems since many of the compounds formed by the hydrolysis are in solid shape, not liquid. 2) Corrosion in the fuel system, since many of the hydrolysis products are bound to be sour. Once hydrolosis has taken its course perhaps. But there is always water in biodiesel. The various standards set upper limits of 500-600ppm, but Camillo Holecek of Energea in Austria told us that no matter how dry you get it, it will quickly reabsorb water from the atmosphere to an average of about 1,500ppm, and that's what you'll have in the tank. That seems to be correct, and it doesn't seem to hasten hydrolosis. Frankly, I'm beginning to think all the cautions about degraded biodiesel are a myth, because I can't persuade any to degrade, and I'm not the only one. Maybe it has more to do with the commercial industry's use of the petro-diesel storage and delivery infastructure, which isn't all that great. We've had this discussion here about water content, water emulsions and water injection before a few times, there is quite a lot of information in the archives. For instance: http://www.dieselnet.com/ Water in Diesel Combustion [subscriber access] DieselNet Technology Guide È Engine Design for Low Emissions Water in Diesel Combustion Abstract: Addition of water to the diesel process decreases combustion temperatures and lowers NOx emissions. The most common methods of introducing water are direct injection into the cylinder, a process commercialized in certain marine and stationary diesel engines, and water-in-fuel emulsions. Emulsified fuels, due to increased mixing in the diesel diffusion flame, can be also effective in simultaneous reduction of PM and NOx emissions. Addition of Water to Diesel Process Fumigation of Water into Intake Air Direct Injection of Water Fuel Emulsions Practical Embodiments [more...] http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20041115/002962.html Water Emulsions - Water-fuel emulsions are one of the few methods that can simultaneously control PM and NOx emissions. Depending on the engine, emulsions containing 20% water can reduce PM emissions by as much as 50%. It should be noted that other methods of water addition, such as direct injection, are not effective in controlling PM. http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/37764/ [Scroll down.] Here's a roundup below of some stuff we've had previously and some other stuff, on both water injection and water-fuel emulsions... http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/30409/ The US EPA lists 23 studies of water emulsions with dino-diesel: Following is a list of studies that are being considered for inclusion in work being done by EPA to assess the effects of water-fuel emulsions on emissions of oxides of nitrogen (NOx), hydrocarbons (HC), and particulate matter (PM). http://www.epa.gov/otaq/models/analysis/emulsion/emulbibl.pdf We've also had reports of successful use of biodiesel-alcohol-water mixes in Australia, on quite a large scale. As for hydrolosis, you're probably quite safe if you use it in a month or two, probably longer. Joe, re WVO: Hello to all: I'm wondering if anyone is using WVO and drying it before use. I filter it and it looks brite and clear but I worry that there may be water disolved in the oil. Is there a simple test for water content? Is there a simple method of removing moisture? I don't want to heat 50 gallons to 150C. Searching..___ Heat it to 60 deg C for 15 minutes then let it settle, at least overnight; draw from the top. Heating to high temps like 150 deg C can lock that water in there rather than boiling it off. If 60 deg C doesn't work you probably shouldn't be using that oil in an SVO system - find better oil. 60 deg C is safer too, no steam explosions. A quick test is to heat a little of the oil in a saucepan; if there's water it will start to crackle at 50 deg C or less; if it reaches 60-65 deg C and still no crackling then you don't have a water problem. And, as Rob says, if you do have a water problem, maybe it's not a problem after all. Best wishes Keith Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: R Del Bueno [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way? This is a good question. I have found that gravity will take most of the free water out in time. Warming the oil to about 140degF speeds up the process. The use of a centrifuge speeds it up even further (but can be costly unless you stumble into a good deal on one). I know some folks
[Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way?
Hello to all: I'm wondering if anyone is using WVO and drying it before use. I filter it and it looks brite and clear but I worry that there may be water disolved in the oil. Is there a simple test for water content? Is there a simple method of removing moisture? I don't want to heat 50 gallons to 150C. Searching..___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way
Hi, I haven't tried this yet so it is only theory. I bought an old cream seperator(Centrifuge) and I am going to filter the wvo first then run it through the seperator and hopefully seperate any water from the WVO. Also going to try and recover Methy that way. Did you see the news on CNN that there is a country that makes a national drink from methanol called raki. WOW! ethanol is bad enough , but drink methanol that is absolutely redicilous. Yours truly John Wilson Goldens *** Wilsonia Farm Kennel Preserve Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph-Fax (902)665-2386) Web: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/new.htm Pups: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/pup.htm Politics: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/elect.htm http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/c68.htm In Nova Scotia smoking permitted in designated areas only until 9:00 PM . After 9:00 it is okey to kill everyone. ^^^ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way?
I have found that gravity will take most of the free water out in time. Warming the oil to about 140degF speeds up the process. The use of a centrifuge speeds it up even further (but can be costly unless you stumble into a good deal on one). I know some folks are using some vacuum setups to lower the boiling point, and using flash evaporators and or thin film evaporators, but I wonder if it is needed. (As a side question...how much more efficient is a vacuum assisted evaporator from a total energy usage standpoint, than just heat, after all one must use energy to create the vacuum?) There still seems to be some debate over how dry the oil needs to be. For WVO/SVO fuel systems, I am not positive that small quantities of water are all that problematic...after all there are water injection systems out there, and a few companies that sell diesel /water emulsifiers in order to suspend water into diesel fuel as a method of altering combustion temperature to reduce NOX emissions. So from a combustion standpoint..seems that small amounts of water will simply turn to steam. Free water over time can collect in the fuel system and cause freeze issues, and corrode internal components of injection systems...but if you are running a dual tank WVO system, switching back to diesel prior to shutdown, there should not be water sitting in the injection system. Does a small amount of water affect the lubricity value of the WVO?..perhaps..but with the initial lubricity of WVO being so high, I suspect there is a bit of room to play. So far I have been running 10 micron filtered gravity settled oil (about a week at around 70degF) with a heated waterblock type filter in vehicle. Very little, if any water collects in the clear bowl. I have yet to run into any problems that indicate water problems...but only topping out at around 10k miles..so nothing definitive. I understand the need to dry WVO for biodiesel production, but wonder how needed it is for straight WVO as fuel. -Rob At 08:30 PM 3/8/2005, you wrote: Hello to all: I'm wondering if anyone is using WVO and drying it before use. I filter it and it looks brite and clear but I worry that there may be water disolved in the oil. Is there a simple test for water content? Is there a simple method of removing moisture? I don't want to heat 50 gallons to 150C. Searching..___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
