Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Quality?
Hi Bob Keith Addison wrote: Hi Todd Hellow Keith, Yup. Sometimes biodiesel clouds right back up after it's cooled down. Used to see this when we sun dried fuel. Every time the sun went down the fuel clouded back up. I have a feeling that it quickly absorbed as much water from the cooler air upon sunset as it dispersed in the heat of the day. I think so. My guess is that the amount of moisture in the biodiesel doesn't change as much as its solubility (as a function of temperature) hence the same amount of water will make cool biodiesel look cloudy, whereas it will be clear when warmer, to do complete solubility. Yes, I think that happens, but heating it also gets rid of it, as Todd said: Seems that the elevated heat tends to drive much of the moisture into the ambient air if done in a well vented tank or container. A little bit settles out, but more of the former. If you heat it and leave it to cool in a drum with a lid on it, you'll find a whole bunch of condensed water under the lid, and cool, clear, biodiesel. Better indeed to have it well vented so the vapour can escape rather than condensing and perhaps dripping back in again. I'd guess Camillo meant at RT when he said it'd absorb 1,200 ppm water from the air no matter what, and at higher temps it would be more, at lower temps less. Whatever the temp, you have to get rid of the free water content though, then let it absorb whatever it wants to. Best Keith -- -- Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob -- - The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness JKG [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Quality?
Hi Todd Hellow Keith, Yup. Sometimes biodiesel clouds right back up after it's cooled down. Used to see this when we sun dried fuel. Every time the sun went down the fuel clouded back up. I have a feeling that it quickly absorbed as much water from the cooler air upon sunset as it dispersed in the heat of the day. I think so. Seems that the elevated heat tends to drive much of the moisture into the ambient air if done in a well vented tank or container. A little bit settles out, but more of the former. I agree, much more evaporation than settling. Camillo Holecek told us it would always absorb 1,200 ppm of water, though the standards require less than 500 (US), or less than 200 even in one case (France). He said Energia produces biodiesel with 50ppm water, but by the time you put it in your tank it'll have 1,200 anyway. If I've got it right, that 1,200 ppm won't make it cloudy, it'll still be clear, or should be, and the dissolved water won't do any harm, maybe even some good. The cloudiness is free water content, not dissolved, and I think that will do harm. The Fuel Injection Equipment Manufacturers (Bosch et al) also think so. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_FIEM.html FIEM report (They don't like dissolved water either, but considering all the research on using fuel-water emulsions and its benefits, maybe they're over-reacting with this. ) The main industry concern seems to be the dreaded oxidation and bacterial attack, giving rise to the even more dreaded acid content. I guess what happens is that the Big Guys who belong to the NBB and such send off their one-off carefully prepared test sample (sample of what? - not necessarily of normal production it seems) in a thoroughly dewatered state and in a tightly sealed container, whereupon it's duly found to have less than 500ppm water content, and commercial biodiesel quality is thus assured, hey. Meanwhile self-same Big Guys are dumping successive loads of hopelessly sub-spec fuel on California and wrecking people's motors and so on, and nor NBB nor EPA even notices - the homebrew crowd has to clean up the mess behind them, contrary to industry myth, which persists in having it the other way round (but splutters helplessly when asked for examples). The NBB, lost in apparent oblivion, then proudly conducts delegates on a tour of said iffy Big Guy's plant which produces the bad brew as the highlight of their annual biodiesel bun-fight. On the other hand, Graham Noyes of World Energy said the sub-spec commercial brew they distributed (do they take turns at it or what?) had passed the ASTM tests, but not when, after complaints, they sent it to another laboratory for testing, where it failed. This sounds suspiciously as if the lab tests are just a rubber-stamp anyway, sans actual testing (much cheaper that way, and it sure brings in the business). IF you're a Big Guy, that is. But if you're a small guy, you can forget about getting registered as on on-road fuel producer no matter how good your fuel might be - they'll keep moving the goalposts, even in defiance of their own rules, finally (?) claiming that your small-scale brew will have to meet not the ASTM biodiesel spec, but the ASTM petroleum diesel spec. And I guess if we ever managed to do that they'd shake their heads sagely and say it just isn't purified enough to power Three Mile Island on, or maybe the Starship Enterprise. I suppose you could take all this BS and generate more than enough methane with it to pre-heat your WVO with, if not run Three Mile Island. Anyway, until they start changing the rules for off-road use, and for individuals' own use, and enforce it, there are ways round all this. Though Australia seems to be doing just that. Amazing how blatant our purported leaders have become about demonstrating whose pockets they're in, I wonder who or what might have encouraged them to be so in-your-face about it - NOT! **OFF-TOPIC!** LOL! Anyway anyway, to go back to the beginning, we've still got some of the first biodiesel we ever made here, four or five years ago or whenever it was. No special storage, it's been in all sorts of weather and conditions, and there's nothing wrong with it at all, still perfectly good. Which leaves me to wonder what all the fuss is about. Get your fuel clear so it stays clear, whether by settling, leaving it in the sun or heating it, then put it in your motor and go, and you'll be a happy biodieseler. regards Keith Todd Swearingnen - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 12:33 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Quality? Why heat it ? Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole Netherlands Right Peter - no need, unless you're in a hurry. Letting it settle until it's clear is fine. 110 deg C (230 F) is at any rate completely unnecessary, waste of energy. Some people do 60 deg C
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Quality?
Keith Addison wrote: Hi Todd Hellow Keith, Yup. Sometimes biodiesel clouds right back up after it's cooled down. Used to see this when we sun dried fuel. Every time the sun went down the fuel clouded back up. I have a feeling that it quickly absorbed as much water from the cooler air upon sunset as it dispersed in the heat of the day. I think so. My guess is that the amount of moisture in the biodiesel doesn't change as much as its solubility (as a function of temperature) hence the same amount of water will make cool biodiesel look cloudy, whereas it will be clear when warmer, to do complete solubility. -- -- Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob -- - The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness JKG [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Quality?
x-charset ISO-8859-1Hellow Keith, Yup. Sometimes biodiesel clouds right back up after it's cooled down. Used to see this when we sun dried fuel. Every time the sun went down the fuel clouded back up. I have a feeling that it quickly absorbed as much water from the cooler air upon sunset as it dispersed in the heat of the day. Seems that the elevated heat tends to drive much of the moisture into the ambient air if done in a well vented tank or container. A little bit settles out, but more of the former. Todd Swearingnen - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 12:33 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Quality? Why heat it ? Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole Netherlands Right Peter - no need, unless you're in a hurry. Letting it settle until it's clear is fine. 110 deg C (230 F) is at any rate completely unnecessary, waste of energy. Some people do 60 deg C (140 F), but I agree with Todd: Approximately 120*F (~46*C) is more than sufficient. If that doesn't clear it, do it again, but it shouldn't be necessary to do it again. Of course heating it will always clear it, but that doesn't mean it will stay clear when it cools down. Rick: washer. I wash it with 1/2 the amount of water for 6 to 7 hours and let it sit over night and repeat this 3 times. My last wash water is just about clear and the ph is about 6. No need to settle it so long between washes, an hour or so will do (but longer won't hurt either). Ideally the final wash water should be clear rather than just about clear. Sorry to ask again, but how do you measure the pH? I wonder if it's an accurate measure, it should be more like 7, or at least more like the pH of your tap water - which is what, by the way? Best Keith - Original Message - From: pinky 22in [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Quality? hi what you did is right your biodiesel will be of good quality.. butb4 using the biodiesel, heat it for 110 degree celsius and thn use it.-vidhya --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Hi all, I just made my second large batch of Biodiesel. (10 gallon) I have made 8 different blender batches, the first 3 I screwed up the amount of lye. (the scale was way off) The next 5 came out great, (I think) I have gotten great seperation on every good batch that I have made. 2 very distinct layers with the top layer being the same color top to bottom and the bottom layer much darker and on the bottom. I mix it for 1 hour then let it sit over night and draw off the good stuff from the top and put it in the washer. I wash it with 1/2 the amount of water for 6 to 7 hours and let it sit over night and repeat this 3 times. My last wash water is just about clear and the ph is about 6. Having told you this, is there anything to do to test the quality of my fuel. It looks good in the jug. I have one batch that has been done for a couple of weeks and it looks the same now as it did when I got done washing it. I am ready to put it in a fuel tank and run a gen set but just want to be sure I am not going to mess any thing up. Thanks Rick M Brownstown, Mi. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Quality?
x-charset ISO-8859-1 heating is to get rid of moisture content and also to kill microbes(in case if it is there) inorder to extend the ;life of biodiesel. --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Why heat it ? Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole Netherlands Right Peter - no need, unless you're in a hurry. Letting it settle until it's clear is fine. 110 deg C (230 F) is at any rate completely unnecessary, waste of energy. Some people do 60 deg C (140 F), but I agree with Todd: Approximately 120*F (~46*C) is more than sufficient. If that doesn't clear it, do it again, but it shouldn't be necessary to do it again. Of course heating it will always clear it, but that doesn't mean it will stay clear when it cools down. Rick: washer. I wash it with 1/2 the amount of water for 6 to 7 hours and let it sit over night and repeat this 3 times. My last wash water is just about clear and the ph is about 6. No need to settle it so long between washes, an hour or so will do (but longer won't hurt either). Ideally the final wash water should be clear rather than just about clear. Sorry to ask again, but how do you measure the pH? I wonder if it's an accurate measure, it should be more like 7, or at least more like the pH of your tap water - which is what, by the way? Best Keith - Original Message - From: pinky 22in [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Quality? hi what you did is right your biodiesel will be of good quality.. butb4 using the biodiesel, heat it for 110 degree celsius and thn use it.-vidhya --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Hi all, I just made my second large batch of Biodiesel. (10 gallon) I have made 8 different blender batches, the first 3 I screwed up the amount of lye. (the scale was way off) The next 5 came out great, (I think) I have gotten great seperation on every good batch that I have made. 2 very distinct layers with the top layer being the same color top to bottom and the bottom layer much darker and on the bottom. I mix it for 1 hour then let it sit over night and draw off the good stuff from the top and put it in the washer. I wash it with 1/2 the amount of water for 6 to 7 hours and let it sit over night and repeat this 3 times. My last wash water is just about clear and the ph is about 6. Having told you this, is there anything to do to test the quality of my fuel. It looks good in the jug. I have one batch that has been done for a couple of weeks and it looks the same now as it did when I got done washing it. I am ready to put it in a fuel tank and run a gen set but just want to be sure I am not going to mess any thing up. Thanks Rick M Brownstown, Mi. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Quality?
x-charset ISO-8859-1 hi some people will heat the raw oil to 105 degree b4 transesterification. but u did nt mention that whether you heat the oil b4 transesterification to get rid of the moisture content. also the moisture content depends on the age of oil and nature of storage. thats y if you did nt heat the oil b4 transesterification, u have to definitely heat the final product before use .bye --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Hi again, Another dumb question. Is this heating a needed step and if it is how long should it be heated for? There's no need to heat the finished fuel to this high of a temp to dry it. Approximately 120*F (~46*C) is more than sufficient to get any microscopic water to settle out before putting the fuel in the tank. If it seperates like you say I am good to go before heating or after? Thanks again Rick M Brownstown, Mi The simplest home test for fuel acceptability is to put equal parts fuel and water in a closed container and agitate radically for a few seconds. If the fuel and water separate immediately with no emulsion other than a thin interface film you're good to go. Todd Swearingen [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Quality?
x-charset ISO-8859-1Questions are never dumb. Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 5:53 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Quality? Hi again, Another dumb question. Is this heating a needed step and if it is how long should it be heated for? There's no need to heat the finished fuel to this high of a temp to dry it. Approximately 120*F (~46*C) is more than sufficient to get any microscopic water to settle out before putting the fuel in the tank. If it seperates like you say I am good to go before heating or after? Thanks again Rick M Brownstown, Mi The simplest home test for fuel acceptability is to put equal parts fuel and water in a closed container and agitate radically for a few seconds. If the fuel and water separate immediately with no emulsion other than a thin interface film you're good to go. Todd Swearingen [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Quality?
In a message dated 02/24/2004 8:07:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Rick: washer. I wash it with 1/2 the amount of water for 6 to 7 hours and let it sit over night and repeat this 3 times. My last wash water is just about clear and the ph is about 6. No need to settle it so long between washes, an hour or so will do (but longer won't hurt either). Ideally the final wash water should be clear rather than just about clear. Sorry to ask again, but how do you measure the pH? I wonder if it's an accurate measure, it should be more like 7, or at least more like the pH of your tap water - which is what, by the way? Best Keith Keith, I use a electronic ph meter. (not a real expensive one) and I use ph paper. I think I am pretty close to the 6 that I mentioned.My tap water is right about the 7 mark. I don't know how accurate the measurement is but I think I am close. Rick M Brownstown, Mi. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Quality?
In a message dated 02/24/2004 8:07:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Rick: washer. I wash it with 1/2 the amount of water for 6 to 7 hours and let it sit over night and repeat this 3 times. My last wash water is just about clear and the ph is about 6. No need to settle it so long between washes, an hour or so will do (but longer won't hurt either). Ideally the final wash water should be clear rather than just about clear. Sorry to ask again, but how do you measure the pH? I wonder if it's an accurate measure, it should be more like 7, or at least more like the pH of your tap water - which is what, by the way? Best Keith Keith, I use a electronic ph meter. (not a real expensive one) and I use ph paper. I think I am pretty close to the 6 that I mentioned.My tap water is right about the 7 mark. I don't know how accurate the measurement is but I think I am close. Rick M Brownstown, Mi. Hi Rick Thanks. Go right ahead and use it, you'll be fine. Running on your first batch of homebrewed fuel is a GREAT FEELING! Very empowering. You're well on your way, well done! Best wishes Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Quality?
x-charset ISO-8859-1hi what you did is right your biodiesel will be of good quality.. butb4 using the biodiesel, heat it for 110 degree celsius and thn use it.-vidhya --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Hi all, I just made my second large batch of Biodiesel. (10 gallon) I have made 8 different blender batches, the first 3 I screwed up the amount of lye. (the scale was way off) The next 5 came out great, (I think) I have gotten great seperation on every good batch that I have made. 2 very distinct layers with the top layer being the same color top to bottom and the bottom layer much darker and on the bottom. I mix it for 1 hour then let it sit over night and draw off the good stuff from the top and put it in the washer. I wash it with 1/2 the amount of water for 6 to 7 hours and let it sit over night and repeat this 3 times. My last wash water is just about clear and the ph is about 6. Having told you this, is there anything to do to test the quality of my fuel. It looks good in the jug. I have one batch that has been done for a couple of weeks and it looks the same now as it did when I got done washing it. I am ready to put it in a fuel tank and run a gen set but just want to be sure I am not going to mess any thing up. Thanks Rick M Brownstown, Mi. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Quality?
x-charset ISO-8859-1There's no need to heat the finished fuel to this high of a temp to dry it. Approximately 120*F (~46*C) is more than sufficient to get any microscopic water to settle out before putting the fuel in the tank. The simplest home test for fuel acceptability is to put equal parts fuel and water in a closed container and agitate radically for a few seconds. If the fuel and water separate immediately with no emulsion other than a thin interface film you're good to go. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: pinky 22in [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 4:18 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Quality? hi what you did is right your biodiesel will be of good quality.. butb4 using the biodiesel, heat it for 110 degree celsius and thn use it.-vidhya --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Hi all, I just made my second large batch of Biodiesel. (10 gallon) I have made 8 different blender batches, the first 3 I screwed up the amount of lye. (the scale was way off) The next 5 came out great, (I think) I have gotten great seperation on every good batch that I have made. 2 very distinct layers with the top layer being the same color top to bottom and the bottom layer much darker and on the bottom. I mix it for 1 hour then let it sit over night and draw off the good stuff from the top and put it in the washer. I wash it with 1/2 the amount of water for 6 to 7 hours and let it sit over night and repeat this 3 times. My last wash water is just about clear and the ph is about 6. Having told you this, is there anything to do to test the quality of my fuel. It looks good in the jug. I have one batch that has been done for a couple of weeks and it looks the same now as it did when I got done washing it. I am ready to put it in a fuel tank and run a gen set but just want to be sure I am not going to mess any thing up. Thanks Rick M Brownstown, Mi. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Quality?
x-charset ISO-8859-1Why heat it ? Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: pinky 22in [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Quality? hi what you did is right your biodiesel will be of good quality.. butb4 using the biodiesel, heat it for 110 degree celsius and thn use it.-vidhya --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Hi all, I just made my second large batch of Biodiesel. (10 gallon) I have made 8 different blender batches, the first 3 I screwed up the amount of lye. (the scale was way off) The next 5 came out great, (I think) I have gotten great seperation on every good batch that I have made. 2 very distinct layers with the top layer being the same color top to bottom and the bottom layer much darker and on the bottom. I mix it for 1 hour then let it sit over night and draw off the good stuff from the top and put it in the washer. I wash it with 1/2 the amount of water for 6 to 7 hours and let it sit over night and repeat this 3 times. My last wash water is just about clear and the ph is about 6. Having told you this, is there anything to do to test the quality of my fuel. It looks good in the jug. I have one batch that has been done for a couple of weeks and it looks the same now as it did when I got done washing it. I am ready to put it in a fuel tank and run a gen set but just want to be sure I am not going to mess any thing up. Thanks Rick M Brownstown, Mi. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Quality?
Hi again, Another dumb question. Is this heating a needed step and if it is how long should it be heated for? There's no need to heat the finished fuel to this high of a temp to dry it. Approximately 120*F (~46*C) is more than sufficient to get any microscopic water to settle out before putting the fuel in the tank. If it seperates like you say I am good to go before heating or after? Thanks again Rick M Brownstown, Mi The simplest home test for fuel acceptability is to put equal parts fuel and water in a closed container and agitate radically for a few seconds. If the fuel and water separate immediately with no emulsion other than a thin interface film you're good to go. Todd Swearingen [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Quality?
Why heat it ? Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole Netherlands Right Peter - no need, unless you're in a hurry. Letting it settle until it's clear is fine. 110 deg C (230 F) is at any rate completely unnecessary, waste of energy. Some people do 60 deg C (140 F), but I agree with Todd: Approximately 120*F (~46*C) is more than sufficient. If that doesn't clear it, do it again, but it shouldn't be necessary to do it again. Of course heating it will always clear it, but that doesn't mean it will stay clear when it cools down. Rick: washer. I wash it with 1/2 the amount of water for 6 to 7 hours and let it sit over night and repeat this 3 times. My last wash water is just about clear and the ph is about 6. No need to settle it so long between washes, an hour or so will do (but longer won't hurt either). Ideally the final wash water should be clear rather than just about clear. Sorry to ask again, but how do you measure the pH? I wonder if it's an accurate measure, it should be more like 7, or at least more like the pH of your tap water - which is what, by the way? Best Keith - Original Message - From: pinky 22in [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Quality? hi what you did is right your biodiesel will be of good quality.. butb4 using the biodiesel, heat it for 110 degree celsius and thn use it.-vidhya --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Hi all, I just made my second large batch of Biodiesel. (10 gallon) I have made 8 different blender batches, the first 3 I screwed up the amount of lye. (the scale was way off) The next 5 came out great, (I think) I have gotten great seperation on every good batch that I have made. 2 very distinct layers with the top layer being the same color top to bottom and the bottom layer much darker and on the bottom. I mix it for 1 hour then let it sit over night and draw off the good stuff from the top and put it in the washer. I wash it with 1/2 the amount of water for 6 to 7 hours and let it sit over night and repeat this 3 times. My last wash water is just about clear and the ph is about 6. Having told you this, is there anything to do to test the quality of my fuel. It looks good in the jug. I have one batch that has been done for a couple of weeks and it looks the same now as it did when I got done washing it. I am ready to put it in a fuel tank and run a gen set but just want to be sure I am not going to mess any thing up. Thanks Rick M Brownstown, Mi. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Quality?
x-charset ISO-8859-1Biodiesel naturally absorbs some water, hence the cloudiness after a wash. The wash test recommended is simply to determine whether your fuel is of reasonable enough standard as to put in a tank. You don't do that until the fuel has clarified. That can be done either with time and gravity or heat and gravity. Trying to boil the water off is a waste of energy. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Quality? Hi again, Another dumb question. Is this heating a needed step and if it is how long should it be heated for? There's no need to heat the finished fuel to this high of a temp to dry it. Approximately 120*F (~46*C) is more than sufficient to get any microscopic water to settle out before putting the fuel in the tank. If it seperates like you say I am good to go before heating or after? Thanks again Rick M Brownstown, Mi The simplest home test for fuel acceptability is to put equal parts fuel and water in a closed container and agitate radically for a few seconds. If the fuel and water separate immediately with no emulsion other than a thin interface film you're good to go. Todd Swearingen [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
