Re: [systemd-devel] Locale setup for non-shells

2017-05-23 Thread Lennart Poettering 
On Mon, 22.05.17 19:36, Nikolai Kondrashov (nikolai.kondras...@redhat.com) 
wrote:

> On 05/22/2017 04:46 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > On Mon, 22.05.17 14:11, Nikolai Kondrashov (nikolai.kondras...@redhat.com) 
> > wrote:
> > > I'm trying to solve a problem of supplying locale settings to non-shell
> > > programs acting as login shells in Fedora and RHEL, as described
> > > below.
> > 
> > Which services precisely are running these PAM sessions?
> > 
> > Note that explicitly importing /etc/locale.conf should be entirely
> > unnecessary: systemd reads that anyway and adds it to the environment
> > of all services it spawns.
> > 
> > I am pretty sure instead of readding this to the env block through PAM
> > it should just stay in place anyway, and simply be inherited
> > down. Hence, I'd claim that the services setting up the PAM session
> > are simply too eager in cleaning up the environment and should be
> > fixed to leave LANG= and LC_*= in the environment passed to activates 
> > sessions.
> > 
> > > So far it seems the Debian way of doing things will work.
> > > 
> > > Could you please confirm that the format of locale.conf is not going to 
> > > change
> > > in a way incompatible with what pam_env.so expects?
> > > 
> > > The pam_env.so manpage:
> > > 
> > > http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/pam_env.8.html
> > > 
> > > The locale.conf manpage:
> > > 
> > > https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/locale.conf.html
> > > 
> > > Also, am I missing anything? Is there another way systemd can help here?
> > 
> > The syntax described in the man page is unlikely to change. I have no
> > idea about the format pam_env expects though.
> > 
> > And I can only recommend fixing the services in question instead of
> > taping over the issue with pam_env...
> 
> Thanks for your prompt response, Lennart!
> 
> I'm talking about logins on console now, so I assume the service in question,
> technically, is systemd-logind. However, I found out that it's working OK, and
> the real problem is these two pieces in /lib/systemd/system/getty@.service:
> 
> # Unset locale for the console getty since the console has problems
> # displaying some internationalized messages.
> Environment=LANG= LANGUAGE= LC_CTYPE= LC_NUMERIC= LC_TIME= LC_COLLATE= 
> LC_MONETARY= LC_MESSAGES= LC_PAPER= LC_NAME= LC_ADDRESS= LC_TELEPHONE= 
> LC_MEASUREMENT= LC_IDENTIFICATION=
> 
> and
> 
> ExecStart=-/sbin/agetty --noclear %I $TERM
> 
> What the first one does is obvious, and the second needs to be modified to
> make login preserve the environment. Like this:
> 
> ExecStart=-/sbin/agetty -o "-p -- \u" --noclear %I $TERM
> 
> Do you think the two pieces above can be changed to let the locale environment
> through?

Yes, I think that would make sense to do. Could you file an issue
asking for that on systemd github? (or even better: a PR implementing
it!)

https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/new

Lennart

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Re: [systemd-devel] Locale setup for non-shells

2017-05-22 Thread Andrei Borzenkov 
22.05.2017 15:45, Mantas Mikulėnas пишет:
> 
> (Keep in mind that "sourceable by sh" means the value might be quoted and
> with the occassional backslash in the middle – e.g. LANG="en\_US\.UTF\-8"
> is within spec.)
> 

Well, the next sentence goes on with "beyond mere variable assignments,
no shell features are supported, allowing applications to read the file
without implementing a shell compatible execution engine", so I am not
sure your example satisfies it. Quoting is also "shell feature" of a
sort ...

In general I'd say "shell-compatible" is vague enough to raise all sort
of expectations. It would be better to have formal definition of what is
valid in those assignments.
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Re: [systemd-devel] Locale setup for non-shells

2017-05-22 Thread Nikolai Kondrashov 

On 05/22/2017 04:46 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote:

On Mon, 22.05.17 14:11, Nikolai Kondrashov (nikolai.kondras...@redhat.com) 
wrote:

I'm trying to solve a problem of supplying locale settings to non-shell
programs acting as login shells in Fedora and RHEL, as described
below.


Which services precisely are running these PAM sessions?

Note that explicitly importing /etc/locale.conf should be entirely
unnecessary: systemd reads that anyway and adds it to the environment
of all services it spawns.

I am pretty sure instead of readding this to the env block through PAM
it should just stay in place anyway, and simply be inherited
down. Hence, I'd claim that the services setting up the PAM session
are simply too eager in cleaning up the environment and should be
fixed to leave LANG= and LC_*= in the environment passed to activates sessions.


So far it seems the Debian way of doing things will work.

Could you please confirm that the format of locale.conf is not going to change
in a way incompatible with what pam_env.so expects?

The pam_env.so manpage:

http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/pam_env.8.html

The locale.conf manpage:

https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/locale.conf.html

Also, am I missing anything? Is there another way systemd can help here?


The syntax described in the man page is unlikely to change. I have no
idea about the format pam_env expects though.

And I can only recommend fixing the services in question instead of
taping over the issue with pam_env...


Thanks for your prompt response, Lennart!

I'm talking about logins on console now, so I assume the service in question,
technically, is systemd-logind. However, I found out that it's working OK, and
the real problem is these two pieces in /lib/systemd/system/getty@.service:

# Unset locale for the console getty since the console has problems
# displaying some internationalized messages.
Environment=LANG= LANGUAGE= LC_CTYPE= LC_NUMERIC= LC_TIME= LC_COLLATE= 
LC_MONETARY= LC_MESSAGES= LC_PAPER= LC_NAME= LC_ADDRESS= LC_TELEPHONE= 
LC_MEASUREMENT= LC_IDENTIFICATION=

and

ExecStart=-/sbin/agetty --noclear %I $TERM

What the first one does is obvious, and the second needs to be modified to
make login preserve the environment. Like this:

ExecStart=-/sbin/agetty -o "-p -- \u" --noclear %I $TERM

Do you think the two pieces above can be changed to let the locale environment
through?

Thank you.

Nick
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Re: [systemd-devel] Locale setup for non-shells

2017-05-22 Thread Mantas Mikulėnas 
On Mon, May 22, 2017, 16:40 Tomas Mraz  wrote:

> On Mon, 2017-05-22 at 15:45 +0300, Mantas Mikulėnas wrote:
> > On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 2:11 PM, Nikolai Kondrashov <
> > nikolai.kondras...@redhat.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi everyone on systemd-devel,
> > >
> > > I'm trying to solve a problem of supplying locale settings to non-
> > > shell
> > > programs acting as login shells in Fedora and RHEL, as described
> > > below.
> > >
> > > So far it seems the Debian way of doing things will work.
> > >
> > > Could you please confirm that the format of locale.conf is not
> > > going to
> > > change
> > > in a way incompatible with what pam_env.so expects?
> > >
> >
> > Well, the format of locale.conf is meant to be sourceable by sh/bash,
> > so I
> > don't expect it to ever change. It's also covered by the official
> > "stability promise" [1].
> >
> > A better question is what exactly pam_env.so expects... Last time I
> > couldn't quite figure out when it wants a key=value file and when it
> > wants
> > its own special "foo DEFAULT=bar" format, and in fact the manual
> > doesn't
> > seem to match the actual behavior... Does it autodetect or something?
>
> The 'key=value' format works by accident but I plan to make it official
>  one day.
>

Hmm, I guess the extended format in ~/.pam_environment is also allowed by
accident? I still use it for setting variables which depend on $HOME or
$XDG_RUNTIME_DIR (like the ssh-agent path).

> --

Mantas Mikulėnas 
Sent from my phone
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Re: [systemd-devel] Locale setup for non-shells

2017-05-22 Thread Tomas Mraz 
On Mon, 2017-05-22 at 15:45 +0300, Mantas Mikulėnas wrote:
> On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 2:11 PM, Nikolai Kondrashov <
> nikolai.kondras...@redhat.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hi everyone on systemd-devel,
> > 
> > I'm trying to solve a problem of supplying locale settings to non-
> > shell
> > programs acting as login shells in Fedora and RHEL, as described
> > below.
> > 
> > So far it seems the Debian way of doing things will work.
> > 
> > Could you please confirm that the format of locale.conf is not
> > going to
> > change
> > in a way incompatible with what pam_env.so expects?
> > 
> 
> Well, the format of locale.conf is meant to be sourceable by sh/bash,
> so I
> don't expect it to ever change. It's also covered by the official
> "stability promise" [1].
> 
> A better question is what exactly pam_env.so expects... Last time I
> couldn't quite figure out when it wants a key=value file and when it
> wants
> its own special "foo DEFAULT=bar" format, and in fact the manual
> doesn't
> seem to match the actual behavior... Does it autodetect or something?

The 'key=value' format works by accident but I plan to make it official
 one day.

-- 
Tomas Mraz
No matter how far down the wrong road you've gone, turn back.
  Turkish proverb
(You'll never know whether the road is wrong though.)

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Re: [systemd-devel] Locale setup for non-shells

2017-05-22 Thread Lennart Poettering 
On Mon, 22.05.17 14:11, Nikolai Kondrashov (nikolai.kondras...@redhat.com) 
wrote:

> Hi everyone on systemd-devel,
> 
> I'm trying to solve a problem of supplying locale settings to non-shell
> programs acting as login shells in Fedora and RHEL, as described
> below.

Which services precisely are running these PAM sessions?

Note that explicitly importing /etc/locale.conf should be entirely
unnecessary: systemd reads that anyway and adds it to the environment
of all services it spawns.

I am pretty sure instead of readding this to the env block through PAM
it should just stay in place anyway, and simply be inherited
down. Hence, I'd claim that the services setting up the PAM session
are simply too eager in cleaning up the environment and should be
fixed to leave LANG= and LC_*= in the environment passed to activates sessions.

> 
> So far it seems the Debian way of doing things will work.
> 
> Could you please confirm that the format of locale.conf is not going to change
> in a way incompatible with what pam_env.so expects?
> 
> The pam_env.so manpage:
> 
> http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/pam_env.8.html
> 
> The locale.conf manpage:
> 
> https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/locale.conf.html
> 
> Also, am I missing anything? Is there another way systemd can help here?

The syntax described in the man page is unlikely to change. I have no
idea about the format pam_env expects though.

And I can only recommend fixing the services in question instead of
taping over the issue with pam_env...

Lennart

-- 
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Re: [systemd-devel] Locale setup for non-shells

2017-05-22 Thread Mantas Mikulėnas 
On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 2:11 PM, Nikolai Kondrashov <
nikolai.kondras...@redhat.com> wrote:

> Hi everyone on systemd-devel,
>
> I'm trying to solve a problem of supplying locale settings to non-shell
> programs acting as login shells in Fedora and RHEL, as described below.
>
> So far it seems the Debian way of doing things will work.
>
> Could you please confirm that the format of locale.conf is not going to
> change
> in a way incompatible with what pam_env.so expects?
>

Well, the format of locale.conf is meant to be sourceable by sh/bash, so I
don't expect it to ever change. It's also covered by the official
"stability promise" [1].

A better question is what exactly pam_env.so expects... Last time I
couldn't quite figure out when it wants a key=value file and when it wants
its own special "foo DEFAULT=bar" format, and in fact the manual doesn't
seem to match the actual behavior... Does it autodetect or something?

(Keep in mind that "sourceable by sh" means the value might be quoted and
with the occassional backslash in the middle – e.g. LANG="en\_US\.UTF\-8"
is within spec.)

[1]: https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/
InterfacePortabilityAndStabilityChart/

-- 
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Re: [systemd-devel] Locale setup for non-shells

2017-05-22 Thread Nikolai Kondrashov 

Hi everyone on systemd-devel,

I'm trying to solve a problem of supplying locale settings to non-shell
programs acting as login shells in Fedora and RHEL, as described below.

So far it seems the Debian way of doing things will work.

Could you please confirm that the format of locale.conf is not going to change
in a way incompatible with what pam_env.so expects?

The pam_env.so manpage:

http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/pam_env.8.html

The locale.conf manpage:

https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/locale.conf.html

Also, am I missing anything? Is there another way systemd can help here?

Thank you.

Nick

On 04/04/2017 06:06 PM, Nikolai Kondrashov wrote:

Hi everyone,

At the moment users logging into Fedora on a text terminal (console, SSH,
etc.) get their locale environment variables (LANG, LC_ALL, etc.) set up by
the shell they use. I.e. the shell ultimately sources the /etc/locale.conf
file. This works fine in most cases.

However, if the user has his/her "shell" set to any program that is not one of
the traditional shells, i.e. it doesn't source any shell profiles, or even
doesn't understand any shell language at all, then that program doesn't get
locale settings.

Theoretical examples can include captive portals on jump-hosts, or
special-purpose systems with dedicated TUI instead of a shell. A practical
example that concerns me is a user session recording program [1] which needs
to run before user shell, and intercept all I/O going to and from the
terminal.

I would like to know if it is possible to change Fedora to provide the locale
variables through the environment user "shell" inherits, instead of expecting
it to read /etc/locale.conf, which is distro-specific.

This is done in Debian already. During session setup in login/sshd/etc. they
use pam_env to read /etc/default/locale. Similar thing is possible to do in
Fedora too. E.g. just put this into /etc/pam.d/system-auth:

session required  pam_env.so envfile=/etc/locale.conf

Nick

[1] Tlog - terminal I/O logger
https://github.com/Scribery/tlog
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