Am Di., 30. Apr. 2024 um 01:47 Uhr schrieb Juan Pablo Tolosa Sanzana <
jptolosanz...@outlook.cl>:
> It has no sense to inflating classifications of every island in the word
> for being the most important road in respective island.
>
> If a neighbor garage is more quieter than the mine is not a
, 29 de abril de 2024 10:01
Para: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
Asunto: Re: [Tagging] Highway classification in Antarctica
On Mon, 29 Apr 2024 at 08:02, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging
wrote:
> Apr 28, 2024, 22:50 by fernando.treb...@gmail.com:
>
> 3. If they are hamlets,
Am Mo., 29. Apr. 2024 um 16:25 Uhr schrieb Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <
tagging@openstreetmap.org>:
> (second note also may benefit from fix as the most important in
> Vatican is not highway=trunk - though again, maybe it can be avoided
> via "Vatican has no road network system").
>
the
Am Mo., 29. Apr. 2024 um 16:06 Uhr schrieb Fernando Trebien <
fernando.treb...@gmail.com>:
> > why you think that place=hamlet are automatically entitled to
> > highway=tertiary?
>
> The wiki emphasizes the highway classification should consider the
> relative importance of roads within regional
On Sun, 28 Apr 2024 at 20:14, Juan Pablo Tolosa Sanzana
wrote:
> Firstly, the unclassified value is used also to linking with hamlets
> according Key:highway.
As I mentioned earlier, this is a contradiction in the wiki that
should be addressed. The text of Tag:highway=tertiary does not match
Apr 28, 2024, 02:56 by fernando.treb...@gmail.com:
> On Thu, 25 Apr 2024 at 14:46, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging
> wrote:
>
>> If very big island has no roads at all except single small road between
>> two houses it does not mean it is highway=trunk road.
>>
>
> I agree, but note that the
On Mon, 29 Apr 2024 at 08:02, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging
wrote:
> Apr 28, 2024, 22:50 by fernando.treb...@gmail.com:
>
> 3. If they are hamlets, shouldn't the main routes connecting them be
> mapped as highway=tertiary, based on the definitions in the wiki? [1]
> [1]
Apr 28, 2024, 22:50 by fernando.treb...@gmail.com:
> 3. If they are hamlets, shouldn't the main routes connecting them be
> mapped as highway=tertiary, based on the definitions in the wiki? [1]
> [1] > https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/10078630
>
why you think that place=hamlet are
the mailing list. Your approach
are too relativistic.
Regards.
De: Fernando Trebien
Enviado: domingo, 28 de abril de 2024 16:44
Para: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
Asunto: Re: [Tagging] Highway classification in Antarctica
On Sun, 28 Apr 2024 at 02:13
On Sun, 28 Apr 2024 at 02:13, Juan Pablo Tolosa Sanzana
wrote:
> I do not understand your petition
Put concretely:
1. Are Villa Las Estrellas, Bellingshausen Station, Great Wall Station
and Artigas Base considered settlements in OSM? Should they be
considered to have population=0?
2. If they
: sábado, 27 de abril de 2024 20:02
Para: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
Asunto: Re: [Tagging] Highway classification in Antarctica
On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 at 20:39, Juan Pablo Tolosa Sanzana
wrote:
> there is opposition to using tertiary in Argentine bases Marambio and
> Esperanza/
On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 9:01 PM Fernando Trebien
wrote:
> "a road of highest importance, forming the main road network there,
> should be highway=trunk" [1]
> "highway=trunk: The most important roads in a country's system that
> aren't motorways." [2]
>
> The comments here suggest that for a
On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 at 21:56, Fernando Trebien
wrote:
> The comments here suggest that for a rural settlement to be a trunk
The comments here suggest that for a rural *highway* to be a trunk
--
Fernando Trebien
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On Thu, 25 Apr 2024 at 14:46, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging
wrote:
> If very big island has no roads at all except single small road between
> two houses it does not mean it is highway=trunk road.
I agree, but note that the wiki in principle allows this distorted
interpretation twice:
"a road
On Fri, 26 Apr 2024 at 20:09, Juan Pablo Tolosa Sanzana
wrote:
> There are also several places like Tristan da Cunha with only
> highway=unclassified/residential.
> Reading associated definitions the unclassified value seems to be the best
> fit for King George Island.
Perhaps a key difference
de 2024 11:03
> *Para:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools <
> tagging@openstreetmap.org>
> *Asunto:* Re: [Tagging] Highway classification in Antarctica
>
> A possible revised assignment taking the medians of different opinions
> case by case:
>
> South Pole Tra
On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 at 20:39, Juan Pablo Tolosa Sanzana
wrote:
> there is opposition to using tertiary in Argentine bases Marambio and
> Esperanza/Fortín Sargento Cabral. Although Antarctica is an international
> space
Those would be back to unclassified/residential as they belong to the
case
=unclassified/residential before your
editions one year ago.
De: Fernando Trebien
Enviado: viernes, 26 de abril de 2024 11:03
Para: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
Asunto: Re: [Tagging] Highway classification in Antarctica
A possible revised assignment
apart from the usefulness in routing (as there aren’t alternatives it doesn’t
matter for routing if a road on antarctica is unclassified or primary, and
usual time estimates would generally not be useful in this particular context
and also likely more depend on the vehicle than the “road”),
like a
private area.
De: Fernando Trebien
Enviado: viernes, 26 de abril de 2024 9:07
Para: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
Asunto: Re: [Tagging] Highway classification in Antarctica
On Fri, 26 Apr 2024 at 03:16, Juan Pablo Tolosa Sanzana
wrote
A possible revised assignment taking the medians of different opinions
case by case:
South Pole Traverse: secondary (or maybe primary)
The other 4 traverses: tertiary
Ground routes between major stations, airports and harbours: tertiary
Main ways within stations: unclassified
At McMurdo, Main
On Fri, 26 Apr 2024 at 03:16, Juan Pablo Tolosa Sanzana
wrote:
> There are no road network in King George Island, only a few short roads to
> serving research stations.
What is the minimum number of roads needed for a set of ways to
qualify as a road network?
Consider Tuvalu, listed by
On 25/04/2024 16:16, Fernando Trebien wrote:
I also think that such changes also imply corrections to the following
section
...
"In a region with poor infrastructure, a road of highest importance,
forming the main road network there, should be highway=trunk,
regardless of being a
On Fri, 26 Apr 2024 at 03:16, Juan Pablo Tolosa Sanzana
wrote:
> Inside the island you can not drive a motor vehicle, in the best case only
> can walk or be transported by special staff. Probably tourists can only move
> between the aerodrome and Villa Las Estrellas. It is a restrictive place
On 26/4/24 03:40, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote:
Apr 25, 2024, 16:16 by fernando.treb...@gmail.com:
I also think that such changes also imply corrections to the following
section regarding how importance is to be assessed by mappers:
The problem is 'tagging for the render', people see this large blank
area and cannot see what they are looking for because the render will
not show such a low importance feature.
This also occurs in other areas where there is sparse populations. The
people who make and maintain renders
About King George Island, if I am not wrong, the normal people can not reach
the island from any ferry neither commercial flights from the rest of the
world. You can only reach the island using a cargo aircraft.
Inside the island you can not drive a motor vehicle, in the best case only can
walk
sent from a phone
> On 25 Apr 2024, at 09:51, Christoph Hormann wrote:
>
> By established conventions of functional road tagging in OSM these would
> almost all be service roads (no through-traffic to other destinations than
> the ones the route ends at).
this is also the case with some
Very well. What is a minimum requirement for a sparsely populated island
with unpaved streets and roads to get its first highway=tertiary? A pair of
hamlets? A single large town? How large?
On Thu, 25 Apr 2024, 14:46 Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging, <
tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> Apr
Apr 25, 2024, 16:16 by fernando.treb...@gmail.com:
> I also think that such changes also imply corrections to the following
> section regarding how importance is to be assessed by mappers:
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway#Assumptions
>
> Particularly this sentence:
>
> "In a
On Thu, 25 Apr 2024 at 11:13, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> Even more clear in that regard is the use of secondary tags like
> snowmobile=yes, ice_road=yes, surface=ice. These are evidently factually
> wrong.
This is probably best discussed in changeset comments, but I'm curious
why they would
On Thu, Apr 25, 2024 at 10:13 AM Christoph Hormann wrote:
> [...] you can try to record semantically meaningful information about the
> geographic reality.
>
> [...] Even more clear in that regard is the use of secondary tags like
> snowmobile=yes, ice_road=yes, surface=ice.
I don't think
I also think that such changes also imply corrections to the following
section regarding how importance is to be assessed by mappers:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway#Assumptions
Particularly this sentence:
"In a region with poor infrastructure, a road of highest importance,
> Fernando Trebien hat am 25.04.2024 geschrieben:
>
> Are such parameters absolute, or would we get a better
> map if we adapt them to local realities?
That is exactly one of the points i was trying to make. You can try to create
a better map from map styles that are not only not optimized
On Thu, 25 Apr 2024 at 10:40, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging
wrote:
> Apr 25, 2024, 14:20 by fernando.treb...@gmail.com:
>
> Considering that requiring local surveys in Antarctica would lead to
> an empty map and that assuming that governments are always lying would
> prevent us from importing
On Thu, 25 Apr 2024 at 10:40, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging
wrote:
> BTW, I think that at this point
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Antarctica/Tagging#Roads_and_routes
> section should be removed.
I think it would be better to adjust it to the emerging consensus, but
the discussion
Apr 25, 2024, 14:20 by fernando.treb...@gmail.com:
> Considering that requiring local surveys in Antarctica would lead to
> an empty map and that assuming that governments are always lying would
> prevent us from importing government data
>
please reread message you are responding to
"without
Considering that requiring local surveys in Antarctica would lead to
an empty map and that assuming that governments are always lying would
prevent us from importing government data, to me it seems relatively
safe to assume that something exists if it has visible traces in
imagery and multiple
I wanted to add some cautionary advice here.
Mapping in the Antarctic in OSM is to a much larger part than on other
continents fueled by 'imagined' things. I am not talking about stuff here
individually made up by mappers but more institutionally conjured ideas,
projections and to some extent
On Wed, 24 Apr 2024, 20:31 Brian M. Sperlongano, wrote:
> if you can convince me that it's actually a road.
It is clearly an ice road.[1][2] It is made of compacted ice, it was
built over two years by levelling snow and filling in crevasses, it is
maintained/rebuilt every summer and is used by
I'm sure the answer to this question... CRITICAL ... to many data
consumers...
Anyways:
This:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1159748452
seems fine, if you can convince me that it's actually a road. Clearly the
most significant road in the area...
It's essentially the only road *grin*
Apr 24, 2024, 17:55 by fernando.treb...@gmail.com:
> On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 at 12:06, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <>
> tagging@openstreetmap.org> > wrote:
> > Antarctica has no cities, towns and villages.
>
> McMurdo Station, the largest and most important research station in
> Antarctica,
to be more concrete, I think for an important link like
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Pole_Traverse
highway=primary would be appropriate.
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On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 at 12:06, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <
tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
> Antarctica has no cities, towns and villages.
McMurdo Station, the largest and most important research station in
Antarctica, has been mapped as place=town since 2009, then briefly as
place=hamlet
Am Mi., 24. Apr. 2024 um 16:33 Uhr schrieb Fernando Trebien <
fernando.treb...@gmail.com>:
> As Antarctica is international space,[1] I understand that, in
> principle, the highway classification scheme of no particular country
> applies there.
Generally, highway classification is not done
Hi,
personally I would not expect to see any roads of a higher class than
"tertiary" in Antarctica. I would expect something like the 5% or 10%
most important roads (by total length) to be tertiary, and then assign
unclassified/service to the rest.
Should the classification of highways in
Apr 24, 2024, 16:35 by fernando.treb...@gmail.com:
> This will assign very low road classes
> across the continent.
>
I would expect such outcome. Antarctica has no cities, towns and villages.
No people live there permanently. It has things like research stations.
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