There's a forum?
I don't have a problem with have lots of different modes of
communication, but it really needs to be made clear which one is THE
preferred way to talk to People Who Know Things and seek out community
agreement. It seems like that's the mailing lists (at the moment),
possibly
I'd love to see a consensus on how to tag these roads come pretty
quickly, as I'll need to have something finished in less than 2 months
(school schedules are rough, man!).
I would say that the result of your project will be usable even if we
change our mind. Once relations have been
One thing I /haven't/ seen addressed yet is whether single relations are
preferred, or one relation for each way with a super-relation.
Currently both are in use, but I think it would be a lot easier for
future code if we pick one and move towards it from now on.
I don't see any advantage for
The potential problem I see is when you have a road that alternates
frequently between single- and dual-carriageways (which many state
routes do, and even a lot of US highways). How do you represent this in
a single relation?
1) Put single-carriageways in once, with no role. Or, with
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dmotorway_junction has
mentioned it for several months. Browsing through
http://taginfo.openstreetmap.de/keys/exit_to I see use in Florida
(me), the UK, and France. There's also some use of
http://taginfo.openstreetmap.de/keys/exit:to .
If we're
Adding a single-carriageway to the relation twice, once for each role,
would solve this problem instantly, as would using two separate
relations. Neither requires much (if any) code changes to support it.
But in any case, I'm much more in favor of consistency, even if the
format we choose isn't
On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Mike N. nice...@att.net wrote:
If we're serious about starting to use exit_to, let's float this on the
talk list and get the JOSM preset changed. Eventually, all the existing
entries must be converted. (Hopefully no map data consumer is using the
name
If you want to mention among other places frequented by US mappers, feel
free
Some people detest the mailing list signup grind, and thus choose the web
forum at http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewforum.php?id=20 .
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This is really just a problem with map coverage, not tagging convention,
but I'd like to ask about consensus on name= and ref= tags for
motorway_junctions. ref= is pretty obviously the exit number, but
although some wiki pages (Interstate Highways, in particular) say or
imply
that everything
And along those lines, based on the constructive criticism, the default map
shown on the main OSM page should be a pretty map, using tiles from Mapquest,
while mappers that have a need to view more details can select one of the
existing map styles.
For 1 - seriously, you do. In the UK we don't have some roads tagged
A3400
and others tagged A-3400 and others tagged CNSE (Chipping Norton
Stratford Expressway, _obviously_): they're all tagged a la A3400. Our
roads are coherently classified according to the UK highway system, even
though it
Even a relation adds no information to the map, other than perhaps these are
points on the surface of the earth which allow for an unobstructed atmospheric
path to be calculated between.
There are about 28,000 aeroway=aerodrome tags, and 12,000 runways tagged.
So if we wish to add
You need to dial a helicopter to get you off the mountain
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1315762/White-van-man-airlifted-safety-satnav-sends-mountain.html
I wonder how the OSM data looks on this mountain pass...
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We need to think of some simple tasks for new users to complete, and we'll
put them together over on this wiki page. Add a street?
This sort of study will be interesting to see. Adding a street today
must be daunting for the newbie.Despite the lure of the open road -
blank areas where
For those with interest in improving routing in your area, Skobbler now
offers a Geo-feed of reported bugs. You can subscribe to this as an RSS
feed.
http://www.skobbler.us/osmbugs
I have found this interesting to see the US OSM data being used for
routing. You have to sort through
http://www.skobbler.us/osmbugs
I have found this interesting to see the US OSM data being used for
routing. You have to sort through reports that concern the app,
Is it correct to mark these as non-reproducible?
I would say no, unless you actually test the app along the same route.
I see a lot of frustration with routing not working when there are
gates involved. In particular when the gate is in the middle of a
public road (residential). This is because a gate with no access tags
implies that nothing can go through.
This question has been in the back of my mind, for
FYI - this helmet cam looks a bit interesting: ContourGPS
Could be interesting to integrate the video stream with JOSM as a series
of geo-located stills.
http://contour.com/camera
The built-in GPS receiver tracks your location multiple times per second
What is the problem with duplicate nodes, exactly?
The only time they are an actual problem is when the map data does not
represent reality - when a roads cross in a physical intersection, but in
OSM only have 2 nodes at the same location instead of a shared node, or a
closed polygon in
I have gravitated toward JOSM's preset style
highway=footway for foot-only traffic
highway=path + foot=designated / bicycle=designated / foot=yes /
bicycle=yes as appropriate
I would clarify the phrase as with a more specific tag as appropriate.
From: Greg Corradini
Sent:
Is there any current usage of super-relations for roads?
Super-relations have come into wider use in the US on national road
networks.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Interstate_Highway_relations
Minimizing conflicts across huge geographic areas was one of the tipping
points in favor
Also, has there been any progress since the last import with regards
to handling county borders? The current data is an absolute nightmare
in that regard. Luckily here in Kansas there really isn't too much
demand for routing along all the tiny county roads that straddle the
border but still, from
On a smaller scale, I don't know. Pretty much all the TIGER data I've
ever seen is surpassed in quality by local county/state data. So if
you're going to import county by county, why bother with TIGER?
Not all states / counties release their GIS data under an OSM-compatible
license. I
What are you envisioning when you say geo-diff? I'm interested in geodiff
tool too, but haven't been able to get anyone to come up with good ways of
visualizing the difference data.
I did a SQL-based diff of TIGER 2008 - TIGER 2009. This only looked for
changes in named ways; adds and
Well, that's why I said I don't know. Maybe there is a county in the
US where TIGER is the best we've got, but I don't know of any.
Start with mine, and another county in another state where I frequently
travel to - for a GIS DVD with a strict non-reproduction license.
I've already
I'm curious what they did with the addressing. The addressing is derived
from the door to door GPSing the census bureau did for several months.
As far as I know, they consider the detailed addressing survey in 2009 to
be subject to the Census privacy laws. The public addressing in the TIGER
I use MotionX GPS ($2.99) - a great UI plus track recorder - although it seems
to restrict recorded data to X meters between points There might be a setting
to change this, but I haven't found it. I would rather have all data so that
I can get an idea of the error, etc.
From: IgnacioZ
Just because there is no community of editors, does not meant there is not
a community of highly motivated users.
For the case of road centerlines, many in the whole US community have a
goal of accurate routable data. In that sense, those participants form a
local community.
Road
Kudos to Kate, Thea, organizers and speakers for a fantastic conference. A
very good use of our time all around and very educational.
One minor thing that may not show up on notes or video: The 2010 TIGER
will be rolled out between end of Nov 2010 and near end Feb 2011 depending
on the state.
Learon Dalby gave a talk at US State of the Map regarding road centerline
data. For slides of the presentation, see
http://www.slideshare.net/learondalby/open-the-data
My summary is that he has gathered each county's GIS data over a period of
time and now has the entire state's data with a
I'm trying to do an import of the local NHD files, but keep running into
issues when I do the final import. My attempts have been in JOSM, but
when
I do this, it will upload the points and roughly the first 1000 ways, then
just sit there.
How long did you wait? A typical NHD file
to become OSM mappers!
http://www.greenvilleopenmap.info/Mappers00.jpg
(Saw that in a magazine ad)
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I teach computer science at a university about half way between
Indianapolis and Ft. Wayne. I would love to have someone show us how to
get involved mapping precise data locally and submitting it to various
online data sets, or working on software that is helpful to OSM and
others. We have
I don't understand this argument. Doesn't every tag change anywhere break
every editor/renderer/search/data user whether or not you think it is
correct?
John has just as much right to go change all the amenity= tags to something
more specific as you do to keep them the same. Data consumers
I thought most smart phone apps would mostly view map tiles, either
OSM or Cloudmade?
There are several apps now for the iPhone which also search POIs. Some
examples:
-JOSM allows tagging whether banks include an ATM - I select this when
the ATM is attached to the building or inside
A couple of different users have recently been removing all the tiger:*=*
tags from roads in the process of other edits to them.
I'm among them. Mostly because they are not documented in the wiki.
Better start putting them all back. They are documented in the wiki.
output is very rough. You should see a map of the area on the left and a
list
of Points Of Interest on the right. The list of POIs includes nodes and
ways,
if you click on the name of a node it'll show you the location on the map.
When clicking on a node, it would be handy to show the
The schedule for SOTM US is up.
...
Check it out and hope to see you there!
As noted on the web forum, will there be video recordings of the sessions
available for later viewing for those that can't make it?
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Wondering if anyone has tried a helmet camera like the GoPro Helmet
Hero HD or ContourHD for mapping?
I have the ContourHD, and while it's a fantastic sports cam, it's not close
enough to usable for reading street signs from just one street-width away.
I see a case for and against them. Since they're not routable, I don't
immediately see a problem. Nodes are simply points, and a point can be
shared between two objects, and so why use extra nodes if they're not
needed?
I don't have a problem with modeling objects like buildings or 2
I have the ContourHD, and while it's a fantastic sports cam, it's not
close
enough to usable for reading street signs from just one street-width
away.
Hmm, good to know. What if you're below the sign and looking up?
Yes, it does capture a readable sign image for the near case, provided
Mapquest is also planning to spent $1mill to improve OSM data in the US:
This sort of thing is needed in the US to supplement or kick start the
spontaneous contributions in order to end up with a nationally useful map.
It will be interesting to see if they can apply it for maximum
(although with JOSM you can easily unglue nodes or you can also delete the
way and create a new one when these changes are required).
It depends on your definition of easy.In the cases I have run into, it
is necessary to modify a short section of road, therefore I can't just
select all
That's a fantastic demo - I agree about keeping it behind the '+' in the
beginning.
Lambertus pointed out that some bicycles routes take strange detours
when the fastest option is chosen.
I have a case where the most suitable path for foot/bike is a multiuse
trail. I couldn't get it to
Mike N wrote:
It should be noted that this is neither the shortest or fastest route, so
there may need to be a new option?
There's talk of several back end routing engines (Gosmore/etc), so I'm
not sure if I should look at modifying one
of these engines, or if I would need to add a new one
header. It would save nearly everybody from occasional frustration
and frequent minor annoyance.
Instead, people would inadvertantly publish private email.
Actually I inadvertently published a private email when I first joined
because it was not set up to reply to the list. I saw the
Who created this .POI format? Is the specification available
somewhere? How many devices support this particular format?
I now see that it is basically just a .GPX format -
http://www.poi-factory.com/node/6202 . I don't yet know where to find the
list of acceptable choices for 'Category',
There are tons of websites whose niche is to get people to map something
as thoroughly as possible so others can download the files and stick them
on their satnav units (e.g. http://www.poi-factory.com/).
Is there already a converter from .OSM to .POI? I'd like to offer free
current POI
geocoder.us does use TIGER lines [1], which should also clarify the
limits of the service (as they do in their FAQ)
[1] http://geocoder.us/help/faq.shtml
That also means that it is located within an accuracy of only the nearest
block.
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Is there an issue with the renderer now?
The Mapnik tiles are not rendering, and the Wiki status page confirms
this. I don't know any more details.
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Scatter plots of Geo-tagged photos in some worldwide areas - OSM is credited
as base data
http://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/sets/72157623971287575/
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2. Are we in a decline because we are not open enough to non-geeks. My
answer is no, we are not in a decline, we are growing and this is
supported by statistics. I challenge anybody to show me an area of OSM
which is actually in decline or even in stagnation (as opposed to not
growing as
*The recent bot elimination of duplicate nodes. There's been a bit of
complaining but no action on reverting it.
That's because it was clearly a lost cause - between the validator
suggesting that blind mass fixing was the right thing to do, as well as the
Heroes VS Villains contest which
I totally disagree. When surveying, I look at the reality of the elevation
of the bridge compared to all the layer-0 features around it. If it is at
the same elevation, the bridge stays at layer 0 and whatever it crosses is
tagged as layer=-1. This correctly represents the ground truth. This
Not quite sure what to make of what I'm seeing - trunk roads with an
estimated speed limit of 85kph (there's no such thing as a _5kph limit
in Australia). Is this in scope for the comments you're seeking?
The estimated speed limits are probably a best guess average worldwide for
trunk.
as far as i know, we're supposed to be using KPH everywhere, even here
in the US.
According to the Wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Maxspeed
If your country uses miles / the imperial system, tag the value and append
mph!
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Has anyone contacted them about possible inclusion of their data into
OSM? If not, I could try to work with them so we could include their
data. It would be a great asset to have.
Don't forget to include the Appalachian Trail Extension, as designated last
summer:
* Lane numbers
* Speed limits
* Turn restrictions - no turns and one direction only
* One ways
* U-Turns
* Roundabouts
Great tool! This is the first one I've seen with 'mph' Speed Limit
summaries.
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This is a LOT of data to manually add. Is there a simpler way?
Yes, address information is laborious to collect and enter. There is a
JOSM plugin to simplify the repetitive data entry aspect as much as
possible, but it still takes quite a bit of effort.
Thanks for the patch - I'm also running into random dupes on CloudMade
extracts for my state.
Not sure if it's related, but I noticed that many of the CloudMade
extracts can't be processed using osmosis (even though they're
generated with osmosis), except for the operations that don't try to
I came to the OSM project to help create a better map of the world, not
to be insulted. Please remove the page
http://matt.dev.openstreetmap.org/dupe_nodes/heroes.html immediately.
Not only that, but more than one 'hero' belongs in the 'villain' category
for blind and ill-considered
I and at least one other user (See OSM Diaries) have noticed that Yahoo
imagery is not currently displayed in the Potlatch editor. Does anyone know
what the issue is?
http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/2950
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What I want is USA - specifically Kansas - but the whole world is ok too
if that makes setup easier.
We are going to practice editing with JOSM and potlatch and for my own
use I want to play with
tracing farmers fields from data that my company's applicators collects
when we apply
I have several old PC's and a fairly good understanding of linux,
apache, mysql, php etc.
There is a good step-by-step guide to get started at
http://www.weait.com/content/build-your-own-openstreetmap-server-ubuntu-1004-lucid-lynx
Also, the exact steps vary depending on your version of
How about 4: delete the TIGER imported administrative boundaries?
In my experience a) they're not very good, and b) we should be using boundary
relations anyway.
How will boundary relations help? They must still refer to a closed way in
order to define the administrative boundary.
How about 4: delete the TIGER imported administrative boundaries?
In my experience a) they're not very good, and b) we should be using boundary
relations anyway.
How will boundary relations help? They must still refer to a closed way in
order to define the administrative boundary.
In your point b), do you mean that if we did use boundary relations that there
would not be an issue with boundaries and roads being co-mingled and mis-edited?
From: Anthony
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 8:41 PM
To: Mike N.
Cc: Jeff Spirko ; OSM Talk
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Administrative
One thing I see is that this river shows at the edge of the NHD export
boundary. I have seen cases where an NHD feature does not appear in the
NHD export sub-basin that one would expect, but in the adjoining NHD
sub-basin export. Some times the same feature - usually a river - appears
in
Exactly - I'm just at the point where I need a high quality hiking /
biking map in a relatively small region in the US.
Maybe http://hikebikemap.de works for you?
I like it as a start; the colors of the main roads are muted which is good.
And I like the map legend which is necessary for
I'm very much in favour of improving both the quality of hiking data,
and its representation (particularly outside Europe). But do make an
effort to consolidate the existing material rather than just adding
another layer of paint over the top.
Exactly - I'm just at the point where I need a
(And similarly, how to distinguish between a bike path and a mountain
bike track).
I added mtb:scale to mountain bike tracks. But around here, even the
steepest, roughest terrain is only 1 or 2 out of a scale of 5. I think
mtb:scale=3 is something like leaping off 1 meter boulders g
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/03/chile-earthquake-moved-entire-city-10-feet-to-the-west/
The magnitude 8.8 quake that struck near Maule, Chile, Feb. 27 moved the entire
city of Concepcion 10 feet to the west.
Precise GPS measurements from before and after the earthquake, the fifth
I don't see that the Wiki is self-contradictory in this case; it quite clearly states the convention for US and US Interstate highway refs. Is there a good argument to omitting the state abbreviation from the ref? Will the end result of changing to just a number be usable by the
=secondary, most major county roads=tertiary. Those in other regions may promote the small roads based on lane count, max speed, etc.
-- Original message from John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: --
On 1 March 2010 03:17, Mike N <nice...@att.net> wrote:
Is there
yes, but the wiki isn't free of errors and can't be used as absolute
reference. Who wrote it? was it based on wide agreement? If it's in wide use for a long period of time with no objections, it is closer to a standard than any other convention. don't
tag forthe renderer! That's ok, as
relation is where it belongs too. otherwise we end up again with multiple values on a highway segment. and as soon it's implemented in any renderer it can be used for custom shields or standard highway labels instead the way ref. But the current recommendation on the wiki is BS and can't be
I think I know the primary account (Not many mappers in the US!). He'll
respond via the contact, but let me know if he doesn't.
This is always a risk when making mass edits that don't agree with the Wiki
(relation ref). I don't know if that's the reason for revert. It would
have been best
Many thanks for this update - it has come in handy many times since the last
update. I was about to check with you to see if there was any way to
update it, but you beat me to it!
--
These are based off of Lambertus's work here:
Stefan Pflumm wrote:
this ways are all highways.
It surely is unusual for two highways sharing the same nodes, and I
cannot think of an example where this would make sense. But that doesn't
mean there is none; can you give an example?
One example is US TIGER imports at county lines - the
A very good idea to see what the duplicates are first.
some are multiple different nodes occupying the same place.
+1 - please don't merge duplicate nodes which join 'roads' to admin
boundaries it's difficult enough to drag roads out from under admin
ways to correct them as it is.
Second, separating out the highway system requires the data consuming
application to know how to piece things back together. Otherwise, a
shield on a map for example with just a 25 in it is pretty limited in
use.
After / if a generalized shield solution is in place, a 25 placed on an
There is no 1000-member hard-cap on relationship. However, it becomes awkward
to edit huge relationships spanning many states since the likelihood for
conflicting changesets increases.
The Wiki does contain a modification based on the September discussion, but
it's very difficult to
There is no 1000-member hard-cap on relationship. However, it becomes awkward
to edit huge relationships spanning many states since the likelihood for
conflicting changesets increases.
The Wiki does contain a modification based on the September discussion, but
it's very difficult to
I realize most people have fallen asleep on this thread, but did anyone
get a detailed report on why OSM was rejected?
Nothing heard here ... if there's a problem other than coverage, it's
worth hearing about. Otherwise, did it really happen?
So as I stated above, I don't think the _main_ problem at the moment is
the anarchistic tagging, but still too limited coverage, especially on
tagging relevant for routing.
Again, this is not how the company put it. The evaluation failed due to
the
tagging, so even a full coverage with
format and had already evaluated it. The result of the evaluation was
disillusioning: The geometry is pretty good, but the attribution is way
below what would be required to substitute the commercial data.
Can you give any more details? Although general tagging is an anarchy,
'automobile
Some great questions here!
Some specific questions:
1. Do we need the ref tag for the way when we have the two relations
with the same info?
I think the ref tag is technically not required when relations are
present. I'm not an expert - proper rendering might be some time away yet
on
Actually several of the Australian borders were drawn up on paper but
the physical border differs because of miscalculation when surveyed,
they just found out that the angle along NT/Qld borders differs in the
direction they went north, so they'll probably update the paper maps,
they said
I've got a bit of time to start working on the NHD import again,
and after importing both OSM and NHD data into my GIS app, I'm
not quite sure what to do with it; that is, I don't really have
a procedure for resolving conflicts visually/manually, let alone
automating the process.
I don't
Why oh why oh why do some people insist on wasting time trying to import loads
of data?
I like to view OSM data as capable of creating some usable map types on its
own, rather than just a possible supplemental feed to Google maps in the
future. As such, landmarks are key to a standalone
If you have
a look at how bride=yes, access=closed renders
It probably should have a marriage=unhappy to cover that case :-)
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So please, turn away from imports and work on getting mappers in
charge, especially out pounding the streets. The outcome will be much,
much better in the end, and that end will come much, much quicker.
The 'Quicker' part will always be debatable; I put in many hours on fixups
and the end
Most of the non-integer ones around here are within trailer parks.
--
From: SteveC st...@asklater.com
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 5:05 PM
To: Dave Hansen d...@sr71.net
Cc: Talk-us Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Non-Integer
riding on the assumption that we'll have something like 'tiger:reviewed =
no' (with editor support) to mark unreviewed areas. Ideally, an
indication
that an address is unreviewed would be passed along by any services that
use
So, who did volunteer to write that editor-support?
What
For pretty much all of Florida there is parcel-by-parcel address
information available from the county. If you want to import address
information, that would be much more accurate than TIGER.
For that case, clearly the county information is vastly preferred over
TIGER. I'm curious about
TIGER is fine if you don't have anything else. But that's not the
case where I live. It's fine to fall back on if your actual address
search fails. But adding it in a way that encourages people to
*update* the potential addresses with actual addresses defeats that
possibility.
Perhaps
riding on the assumption that we'll have something like 'tiger:reviewed =
no' (with editor support) to mark unreviewed areas. Ideally, an
indication
that an address is unreviewed would be passed along by any services that
use
So, who did volunteer to write that editor-support?
What
For pretty much all of Florida there is parcel-by-parcel address
information available from the county. If you want to import address
information, that would be much more accurate than TIGER.
For that case, clearly the county information is vastly preferred over
TIGER. I'm curious about
TIGER is fine if you don't have anything else. But that's not the
case where I live. It's fine to fall back on if your actual address
search fails. But adding it in a way that encourages people to
*update* the potential addresses with actual addresses defeats that
possibility.
Perhaps
http://svn.openstreetmap.org/applications/utils/import/tiger2osm/shape_to_osm-Tiger.py
Cool stuff! I've been looking at doing the same thing. Which osgeo
python code are you using?
I'm using the default lib for Fedora - GDAL 1.6.0; release 8.fc11 .
Someone else (in Georgia?) created all
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