Am 31.07.2010 14:05, schrieb Frederik Ramm:
I, too, find your attitude funny. You spend an hour doing edits, then
cannot be bothered to spend a minute to think of a good changeset
comment.
That's one thing I want to do and the other I often find a burden to
enter. What's so funny about that?
Frederik Ramm schrieb:
It is so much easier to read a short
phrase about an edit than having to look at the area and history of
affected objects.
It sounds like a nice feature!
Anyone should code a possibility to comment changesets!
;-)
One group ...
The other group ...
You have
On 1 August 2010 04:04, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote:
Again, most of the 'what' could be summarized automically (20 POI's added,
2 ways displaced, 5 restrictions added, etc) and is far better than
reading comments. I have seen so many nice comments from newcomers where
changesets contained
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 21:27:43 John F. Eldredge wrote:
I have to admit that I am bad about not bothering to enter a comment,
particularly if all I have been doing is fixing the alignment of streets to
better conform to the Yahoo aerial view.
snip
Don't forget, the Yahoo! aerials might not be
James Livingston lists at sunsetutopia.com writes:
For casual editing, I'm not sure what I could put in that would be useful.
Often
I start off adding some street numbers I've collected, and then trace those
houses from nearmap, and then start tracing a creek, and then start doing
something when
Am 30.07.2010 13:18, schrieb Frederik Ramm:
To them, I say: Yes, you're right, it can be a pain sometimes, but if
you practice it for a while, it will be an easy routine.
I'm doing this day by day while doing software development - but there
it has a much higher value: Very often you can't
On Saturday, July 31, 2010 12:55:28 pm Ed Avis wrote:
For casual editing, I'm not sure what I could put in that would be useful.
Often I start off adding some street numbers I've collected, and then
trace those houses from nearmap, and then start tracing a creek, and then
start doing something
On Sat, 31 Jul 2010, Liz wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010, Frederik Ramm wrote:
Dear all,
we've had the changeset feature for quite a while now and I believe
it is very helpful in a number of ways.
I thought I'd have a look at the documentation provided for the
documentation called
On 31/07/2010 10:05, Ulf Lamping wrote:
There are people who actively watch out their area what changes there.
That's fine and valueable. But IMHO it's *their job* to make sense of
the changes, not the mappers job.
What a selfish attitude for a supposedly co-operative project.
It may be
On 31 July 2010 19:24, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com wrote:
I don't understand your attitude at all: it hardly takes a moment to add a
helpful comment, but many minutes or hours to make the change itself. It is
hardly a burden.
You gave a very simplistic comment example, how about
Am 31.07.2010 11:24, schrieb David Earl:
On 31/07/2010 10:05, Ulf Lamping wrote:
There are people who actively watch out their area what changes there.
That's fine and valueable. But IMHO it's *their job* to make sense of
the changes, not the mappers job.
What a selfish attitude for a
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 11:24 AM, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.comwrote:
I'm in the group who think that changeset comments are waste of time
because:
- you may have vandalism with nice comments (and good edits with crappy
comments)
- this is an habit comming from software development and
On 31/07/2010 10:50, John Smith wrote:
On 31 July 2010 19:24, David Earlda...@frankieandshadow.com wrote:
I don't understand your attitude at all: it hardly takes a moment to add a
helpful comment, but many minutes or hours to make the change itself. It is
hardly a burden.
You gave a very
On 31 July 2010 20:17, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com wrote:
sad, sad, sad to be so selfish towards your colleagues.
And you are selfish to be making demands that some deem
unreasonable... see I can twist logic just as much as you can...
___
On 31 July 2010 20:17, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com wrote:
sad, sad, sad to be so selfish towards your colleagues.
Oh and I'm still waiting for the comment example based on people that
make a lot more edits than a simply changing the direction a one way
street runs...
On Saturday, July 31, 2010 03:53:19 pm John Smith wrote:
On 31 July 2010 20:17, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com wrote:
sad, sad, sad to be so selfish towards your colleagues.
Oh and I'm still waiting for the comment example based on people that
make a lot more edits than a simply
Am 31.07.2010 12:17, schrieb David Earl:
On 31/07/2010 10:50, John Smith wrote:
Frankly I'd rather spend my time mapping than telling everyone to the
nth degree what my life story about why I made a change.
sad, sad, sad to be so selfish towards your colleagues.
Calling someone selfish when
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote:
We have regularly professionals coming and asking to this community to work
like professionals with good comments and sourcing.
Sourcing might be the only meaningfull comment I could see. This is the only
important information
On 31/07/2010 11:52, Pieren wrote:
Sourcing might be the only meaningfull comment I could see. This is the
only important information that cannot be retrieved by software and is
required to justify some actions e.g. features displacements. We should
better replace 'comment' by 'source' in the
Hi John,
On Samstag, 31. Juli 2010, John Smith wrote:
On 31 July 2010 20:17, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com wrote:
sad, sad, sad to be so selfish towards your colleagues.
Oh and I'm still waiting for the comment example based on people that
make a lot more edits than a simply
Hi Ulf,
Ulf Lamping wrote:
Calling someone selfish when he spends his spare time mapping stuff and
adds that to OSM is simply bullshit.
I, too, find your attitude funny. You spend an hour doing edits, then
cannot be bothered to spend a minute to think of a good changeset
comment. Instead,
On 31 July 2010 22:05, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
That is indeed selfish, because you're saying that your time is more
valuable than theirs.
And you are saying their time is more valuable than the person
contributing the data, this is going no where fast, people have their
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 7:09 PM, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.comwrote:
On 31/07/2010 11:52, Pieren wrote:
Sourcing might be the only meaningfull comment I could see. This is the
only important information that cannot be retrieved by software and is
required to justify some actions e.g.
On Saturday 31 July 2010 11:17:16 Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
josm will not upload a changeset if the comments field is blank - but it
prefills the comment field with the last comment, which is worse than
blank. At the same time mercurial and subversion from the command line will
not permit a
On Sat, 31 Jul 2010, Frederik Ramm wrote:
You spend an hour doing edits, then
cannot be bothered to spend a minute to think of a good changeset
comment.
so how do *you* summarise adding POIs and side streets and putting in maxspeed
along a hundred km of highway?
because i just put in the
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 8:29 PM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote:
On Sat, 31 Jul 2010, Frederik Ramm wrote:
You spend an hour doing edits, then
cannot be bothered to spend a minute to think of a good changeset
comment.
so how do *you* summarise adding POIs and side streets and putting in
Liz,
Liz wrote:
so how do *you* summarise adding POIs and side streets and putting in maxspeed
along a hundred km of highway?
because i just put in the name of where i have been, that's all.
and that is glaringly obvious from the bounding box
I believe that the changeset comment should be
On 31 July 2010 22:53, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
pick from anywhere between nobody's gonna read this anyway to if you want
That's sad because, as I pointed out, if you get into the habit of writing
good changeset comments then the additional work this causes is going to be
On 31 July 2010 23:25, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
No. Equally valuable. But they are more. Only one person makes the edits,
but more than one person look at the edits.
Sure, if on average more than one person views the changeset
information, is this really happening though?
All
location.
---Original Email---
Subject :Re: [OSM-talk] A plea for meaning ful changeset comments
From :mailto:a.erring...@lancaster.ac.uk
Date :Sat Jul 31 01:29:02 America/Chicago 2010
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 21:27:43 John F. Eldredge wrote:
I have to admit that I am bad about not bothering
On 31 July 2010 21:09, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com wrote:
You can see the what but never the why.
Most changesets seem to summerise what they did not why they did it,
the only why that you could get from a changeset is from any source
tags as someone else pointed out, however there
One thing I found unfortunate is that when we switched to API 0.6 to
support changeset comments we also limited the length of values to 255
characters.
So because of that you end up with really long run-on sentences
like that to describe large changes making it hard to write them and
to
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
John,
John Smith wrote:
On 31 July 2010 22:05, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
That is indeed selfish, because you're saying that your time is more
valuable than theirs.
And you are saying their time is
Hi,
Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote:
Can the maintainers of JOSM please get rid of the silly feature that
makes changeset comments manditory? It results in a lot of garbage like
the ..., some mapping, fixed stuff, or none of your business
examples which Frederik cited.
It's a two-sided thing.
Ulf Lamping wrote:
There are people who actively watch out their area what changes there.
That's fine and valueable. But IMHO it's *their job* to make sense of
the changes, not the mappers job.
[...]
Don't be fooled; the small changeset comment that you enter when
uploading stuff *will* be
Currently I'm cleaning up in Ottawa, I have over 8,000 errors to clean
up left and recently I've probably cleaned at least a couple of
thousand errors so far. Things like incorrect street names, where I
have a CANVEC source that helps enormously, connecting streets up so
you can run routing
On 1 August 2010 02:18, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
I could imagine dropping the mandatory changeset comment, but when left
empty, display a pop-up that explains why changeset comments are important
and ask the user to reconsider. (Indeed that dialog could be shown whenever
the
john whelan wrote:
Currently I'm cleaning up in Ottawa, I have over 8,000 errors to clean
up left and recently I've probably cleaned at least a couple of
thousand errors so far. Things like incorrect street names, where I
have a CANVEC source that helps enormously, connecting streets up so
As pointed out, you only have 255 characters. No one is suggesting a
book needs to be written. There is a difference between useful and
exhaustive. All we are asking for is useful comments. Cleaning up
validator problems in Ottowa using a CANVEC source or pull the
reference to CANVEC out into a
Frederik Ramm wrote:
I could imagine dropping the mandatory changeset comment, but when left
empty, display a pop-up that explains why changeset comments are
important and ask the user to reconsider. (Indeed that dialog could be
shown whenever the changeset comment is less than 15 characters
Hi,
Tobias Knerr wrote:
I believe that people will only provide truly useful changeset comments
if they do so voluntarily.
But at least one person in this thread has said something along the
lines oh I didn't know these were so important actually. *That* is
surely something that could have
On 31-7-2010 18:49, Toby Murray wrote:
If you are in an area with more than a few active mappers I can
*guarantee* you that at least one other person is looking at your
changeset comments. I live in the middle of nowhere Kansas and I know
at least one other person is watching the area.
Even
John Smith deltafoxtrot256 at gmail.com writes:
Frankly I'd rather spend my time mapping than telling everyone to the
nth degree what my life story about why I made a change.
Steady on. Nobody says you should repeat in the comment what is already clear
from the changes made. That would be
Another way to look at it is that it's your own time you are saving.
If another mapper has a question about your changes and they have to contact
you and you need to reply, that uses a lot more time than a quick explanation
attached to the change when it was uploaded.
Certainly doing so takes a
Liz edodd at billiau.net writes:
so how do *you* summarise adding POIs and side streets and putting in maxspeed
along a hundred km of highway?
because i just put in the name of where i have been, that's all.
I'd also mention how I found the data - spotted from the car window as I drove
past,
john whelan jwhelan0112 at gmail.com writes:
Currently I'm cleaning up in Ottawa, I have over 8,000 errors to clean
up left and recently I've probably cleaned at least a couple of
thousand errors so far. Things like incorrect street names, where I
have a CANVEC source that helps enormously,
On 31-7-2010 19:54, Ed Avis wrote:
I do something similar cleaning the data using the http://keepright.ipax.at/
data checker, primarily fixing junctions so the map is routable. Ordinarily
I'll just write 'fixed junctions' as the comment. Only if I think there is
some potential doubt or
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 7:40 PM, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote:
Only the 'why'
not the 'what' needs to be stated. That normally shouldn't be more than
one
sentence.
You are two, with David Earl saying that. But that's a big difference with
what Frederik and others are saying. They want
On 1 August 2010 03:43, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote:
Another way to look at it is that it's your own time you are saving.
If another mapper has a question about your changes and they have to contact
you and you need to reply, that uses a lot more time than a quick explanation
attached to
John Smith deltafoxtrot256 at gmail.com writes:
If another mapper has a question about your changes and they have to contact
you and you need to reply, that uses a lot more time than a quick explanation
attached to the change when it was uploaded.
I can count using my fingers and toes the
Pieren pieren3 at gmail.com writes:
About the 'why', I can already tell you :- if someone displaces 20 nodes, the
'why' is because this person things that his source is more accurate than the
previous contribution. The 'why' is a more accurate source.
Indeed - and all that's needed is to mention
On 1 August 2010 04:39, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote:
Agreed. I think the comment should say 'why' not 'what', and if the change is
derived from something other than ground survey, cite the source used. It
shouldn't take more than a few seconds.
I generally always use source=* (and
Lennard ldp at xs4all.nl writes:
I do something similar cleaning the data using the http://keepright.ipax.at/
data checker, primarily fixing junctions so the map is routable. Ordinarily
I'll just write 'fixed junctions' as the comment.
'fixed junctions based on keepright reports'
I would put
Many are very simple, St instead of Street, doesn't sound much but it
stops some search and other tools. Multiple imports each with
different defaults, some forgot the street name, many didn't import
where an existing street was, OK but combine that with up to 200
meters out probably drawn in
Ed,
I hear your point about commenting on the why not the what. I
agree that the why is important. But personally I try to add the
what and the where as well:
'Adjusted road positions based on GPS traces'
There's your why and what already; I'd probably say adjusted road
positions in
My favourite of the day Fair Oaks Crescent / Beechcliffe Street for
a street name, its actually two streets that have been linked
together, so break them apart and name them correctly.
Cheerio John
On 31 July 2010 12:46, Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de wrote:
john whelan wrote:
Currently
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote:
Agreed. I think the comment should say 'why' not 'what'
What does that mean?
What: made a road into a dual carriageway
Why: ???
I assume you don't want an explanation of my vision of my role in the universe.
On Sun, 1 Aug 2010, Ed Avis wrote:
Another way to look at it is that it's your own time you are saving.
If another mapper has a question about your changes and they have to
contact you and you need to reply, that uses a lot more time than a quick
explanation attached to the change when it was
On Sun, 1 Aug 2010, Ed Avis wrote:
Liz edodd at billiau.net writes:
so how do *you* summarise adding POIs and side streets and putting in
maxspeed along a hundred km of highway?
because i just put in the name of where i have been, that's all.
I'd also mention how I found the data -
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 10:04 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote:
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote:
Agreed. I think the comment should say 'why' not 'what'
What does that mean?
What: made a road into a dual carriageway
Why: ???
I assume you don't want an
A reminder to add useful comments in your changesets.
-- Forwarded message --
From: Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org
Date: Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 7:18 PM
Subject: [OSM-talk] A plea for meaning ful changeset comments
To: OSM t...@openstreetmap.org
Dear all,
we've had
Dear all,
we've had the changeset feature for quite a while now and I believe
it is very helpful in a number of ways.
I can select an area and see the edit history for it (soon, hopefully,
even ignoring those world-spanning changesets). I can click on a
username and see what that user
On Friday, July 30, 2010 04:48:03 pm Frederik Ramm wrote:
Don't be fooled; the small changeset comment that you enter when
uploading stuff will be read by many people. Done well, changeset
comments are tremendously helpful.
helpful reminder - my problem is that I put an entry like 'fine
On 30 July 2010 21:27, Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.org wrote:
On Friday, July 30, 2010 04:48:03 pm Frederik Ramm wrote:
Don't be fooled; the small changeset comment that you enter when
uploading stuff will be read by many people. Done well, changeset
comments are tremendously helpful.
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 9:18 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
The other group consists of well-meaning mappers who are valuable members of
our community but who perceive the need to enter a changeset comment as a
kind of nagging, nannying, and who might be tempted to enter a useless
Mapper,
that offers only a preset list of POI types, with the only user-editable
attribute being the name, and no provision for entering changeset comments.
---Original Email---
Subject :Re: [OSM-talk] A plea for meaning ful changeset comments
From :mailto:deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com
Date :Fri
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 21:52:47 +1000 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote:
I also question this value you talk about. I don't think I've ever
looked at another member's changeset. If the user interfaces made that
a more common occurrence, I'd probably put more effort into changeset
comments, but
So what really is a good changeset comment?
--
cheers,
maning
--
Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden
wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 9:08 AM, maning sambale
emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote:
So what really is a good changeset comment?
I think we recognize bad change set comments more easily than good ones.
I'm not proud of the ones I missed here.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/rw__/edits
But
Am 30.07.2010 13:52, schrieb Steve Bennett:
(Corollary: when another user tells me specifically that they would
find my changesets easier to navigate if I commented them properly, I
would re-evaluate. But afaik, no one ever looks at my work, so it
seems a bit pointless.)
I've subscribed to all
On 30 July 2010 14:34, Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.de wrote:
Am 30.07.2010 13:52, schrieb Steve Bennett:
(Corollary: when another user tells me specifically that they would
find my changesets easier to navigate if I commented them properly, I
would re-evaluate. But afaik, no one ever
Ed,
Hillsman, Edward wrote:
I used to think this way, but for the past couple of months I've been
mapping to support three separate goals: a research project that
involves importing bus stops, inventorying shops and points of
interest for an area bicycle map, and preparing for a walk-trip
On 30 July 2010 13:35, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote:
Maybe we just need better tools to summerise changes made, rather than
trying to get something meaningful by way of the comment field...
A commit message is not only a summary of what is being changed but
also why it's being
Maybe in the long run, power editors like JOSM will allow you to keep
mutliple changesets open at the same time, switching between them by the
click of a button, or even allowing you so easily sort and filter edits
(all those with bus stations, in changeset 1, all others, in changeset
2).
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 8:34 AM, Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.de wrote:
Unfortunately OWL does not show the Changeset comment in the RSS items, so
I'll always have to click onto the web link, but I always read what my
co-mappers are writing.
Actually, it is supposed to. There is some bug
On 30 July 2010 18:07, Lennard l...@xs4all.nl wrote:
Maybe in the long run, power editors like JOSM will allow you to keep
mutliple changesets open at the same time, switching between them by the
click of a button, or even allowing you so easily sort and filter edits
(all those with bus
Am 30.07.2010 18:51, schrieb Toby Murray:
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 8:34 AM, Peter Körnerosm-li...@mazdermind.de wrote:
Unfortunately OWL does not show the Changeset comment in the RSS items, so
I'll always have to click onto the web link, but I always read what my
co-mappers are writing.
+100!
I very much agree with the emphasis on the community aspect of a nice
(doesn't have to be great) changeset comment.
Code versioning systems support revision comments and good comments help
people who maintain the software understand ones contributions.
Even Wikipedia highly values edit
On 30/07/2010, at 9:52 PM, Steve Bennett wrote:
For me, very frequently, the changeset just represents a random bunch
of edits I happened to be doing at one time, with not much cohesion.
There are different suburbs all in the same changeset as I flitted
about.
My editing falls into two
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010, Frederik Ramm wrote:
Dear all,
we've had the changeset feature for quite a while now and I believe
it is very helpful in a number of ways.
I thought I'd have a look at the documentation provided for the documentation
called changeset comment
The documentation I
80 matches
Mail list logo
