Hi John,
Can you share with the group any interesting applications this
new processor board has enabled?
Other than turning the 5370A into a capable replacement for the
5370B...
-Chuck Harris
John Seamons wrote:
Boards from the second build of the 5370 processor replacement board project
On 10/8/2014 8:46 AM, Chuck Harris wrote:
Other than turning the 5370A into a capable replacement for the
5370B...
?
I believe the only significant difference between the A and B is that
the B had a slightly more robust input module, and came standard with
the 10811 OCXO.
There were some
Hi Chuck,
The benefit is that you can use Ethernet straight into the 5370, you can
get much higher sampling rates and well, we can have fun hacking up more
functionalities into the 5370 native support if we like to.
Cheers,
Magnus
On 10/08/2014 02:46 PM, Chuck Harris wrote:
Hi John,
Can
Hi Mike,
The B is significantly faster in handling the GPIB interface,
and other internal processor functions than the A... and John's
board levels the playing field quite nicely. My 5370A runs much
more quickly using John's board. I run the B firmware on my
A counter.
The input module
Hi Magnus,
As one of the charter users of the board, I know that. I was hoping
that some of the other users might elaborate on what John's board has
done for them that they wouldn't have done otherwise.
The addition of a BBB inside of a 5370 just reeks of future capabilities,
and
I'll introduce another angle to the discussion:
How have others handled bringing the USB or Ethernet
interface outside of their 5370? There aren't exactly any
extra holes in the back panel to run the cables through.
Is removing the HPIB connector the way?
Is anyone making a replacement panel
On 10/8/2014 9:52 AM, Chuck Harris wrote:
The B is significantly faster in handling the GPIB interface,
and other internal processor functions than the A...
Why would that be? They use the same speed processor, and the GPIB
interface is unchanged.
Hi Mike,
I can't say why, but both my experiences, and HP's manuals
and catalogs say that it is the case.
HP5370A 6000 samples/sec fast binary mode
10-20 readings/sec full format HPIB
HP5370B 8000 samples/sec fast binary mode
10-20 readings/sec full format HPIB
Everything is
I plan on removing the rear panel and making appropriate size holes on a
mill
for USB connectors something like
http://www.l-com.com/usb-panel-mount-usb-cables?cmp=011413
I will be using a shielded connector, same with the RJ45 connector
In message 54354378.8020...@erols.com, Chuck Harris writes:
How have others handled bringing the USB or Ethernet
interface outside of their 5370? There aren't exactly any
extra holes in the back panel to run the cables through.
I ran mine out though a slightly enlarged ventilation hole
One future project would be to replace the front panel with a LCD/Touch
Panel
On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 6:56 AM, Chuck Harris cfhar...@erols.com wrote:
Hi Magnus,
As one of the charter users of the board, I know that. I was hoping
that some of the other users might elaborate on what John's
On Oct 8, 2014, at 8:00 AM, Chuck Harris cfhar...@erols.com wrote:
Is removing the HPIB connector the way?
Is anyone making a replacement panel that has a USB
and an RJ connector mounted?
I have looked into the mechanical issues of doing that, but haven't done a PCB
layout yet.
My plan
On Oct 8, 2014, at 6:46 AM, Chuck Harris cfhar...@erols.com wrote:
Can you share with the group any interesting applications this
new processor board has enabled?
I haven't done much of interest beyond the high speed binary-mode-over-Ethernet
hack (about 39K meas/sec last time I checked). I'm
Hi
You probably are better off doing time stamping relative to the 5370’s timebase
than doing it relative to an external standard. Adding another error into the
mix (NTP variability) is not going to help anything. All you really need is a
“start of file” time/ date and a number that represents
John,
Time-stamping is wonderful. But note -- it does not imply using NTP! Best to
time-stamp with some sort of fine nanosecond or picosecond XO or OCXO or Rb or
Cs or GPSDO -- and not against the gross millisecond or microsecond PC / SBC /
hardware / software cauldron of NTP.
/tvb
There
At that point, why not just remove the few remaining HP parts and put them in a
new enclosure? :)
On Oct 8, 2014, at 10:29, Pete Lancashire p...@petelancashire.com wrote:
One future project would be to replace the front panel with a LCD/Touch
Panel
On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 6:56 AM,
Hi
The purpose of time stamping: You sample the phase of a signal and log the time
at which you recorded the phase.
If you then want frequency, you can take the delta time between stamps and the
delta phase between stamps and get frequency. If both time and phase are very
accurate, the
j...@jks.com said:
I made a real mistake by not running the 5370's 10 MHz oven clock, that was
available right there on a processor board pin, to a GPIO on the Beagle so
it could be accurately counted with the built-in event counter and software
overflow (that clock used to drive the
Boards from the second build of the 5370 processor replacement board project
are now available.
Details here: www.jks.com/5370/5370.html
Please email me off-list with any non general-interest questions.
Thanks,
John
___
time-nuts mailing list --
On 28/02/14 04:50, John Seamons wrote:
On Feb 28, 2014, at 4:34 PM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote:
Is there any performance data on how the card does with a 5370A and / or a
5370B compared to the original CPU on the exact same box? Put another way -
does the counter get better or worse with
On 28/02/14 14:18, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message 87caf1a2-d281-4331-b019-b01b06f11...@rtty.us, Bob Camp writes:
To me the next layer here is to see if the basic accuracy of the device
can be improved in software.
I have a hard time seeing how that would happen.
I think one of the best
In message 5311b3eb.1000...@rubidium.dyndns.org, Magnus Danielson writes:
What one possibly could do is to see if there is any round-off issues
that causes any noise.
The HP5370 firmware uses floating point to avoid exactly that issue,
and all the math I've traced is good and competent.
--
On 28/02/14 18:42, Tom Van Baak wrote:
I think one of the best chances would be to improve the phase
noise of the 200MHz signal.
But don't miss the fact that being able to make a LOT more measurements
in the same time also improves noise statistically.
I agree with this. And it makes me
On 01/03/14 11:31, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message 5311b3eb.1000...@rubidium.dyndns.org, Magnus Danielson writes:
What one possibly could do is to see if there is any round-off issues
that causes any noise.
The HP5370 firmware uses floating point to avoid exactly that issue,
and all the
Hi
Well “so far they look the same” is a pretty good answer to the question.
Running emulated code, that’s the outcome that I would expect. Of course one
always has to be careful when you find the expected result :)
To me the next layer here is to see if the basic accuracy of the device can be
In message 87caf1a2-d281-4331-b019-b01b06f11...@rtty.us, Bob Camp writes:
To me the next layer here is to see if the basic accuracy of the device
can be improved in software.
I have a hard time seeing how that would happen.
I think one of the best chances would be to improve the phase
noise of
If you use a flash-based embedded ARM board, how much is it worth to you that
it works everyday? How much is it worth to you that you do not have to rebuild
it once a year or once a month?
I have several of them and I corrupted one a couple of years ago. It was not
something that was on 24/7
On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 8:20 AM, Didier Juges shali...@gmail.com wrote:
If you use a flash-based embedded ARM board, how much is it worth to you
that it works everyday? How much is it worth to you that you do not have to
rebuild it once a year or once a month?
I have several of them and I
Gentleman,
Tom Van Baak the (co)founder of this group has kindly asked you yesterday to
stop this thread.
Please do so.
Sent From iPhone
On Feb 28, 2014, at 6:20, Didier Juges shali...@gmail.com wrote:
If you use a flash-based embedded ARM board, how much is it worth to you that
it works
I think one of the best chances would be to improve the phase
noise of the 200MHz signal.
But don't miss the fact that being able to make a LOT more measurements
in the same time also improves noise statistically.
I agree with this. And it makes me wonder if someone on the list is now
Hi
I agree that improving the basic accuracy is a bit of a stretch. The first
thing to look for would be temperature sensitivity that you could take out with
a correction table. In another post you beat me to the 200 MHz chain and it’s
phase locking. One might be able to do something
I think a better solution would be to find a very large super cap and
power the BBB from that while giving it a power fail interrupt to quickly
sync the file system.
The advantage of something like the BBB is that it runs Linux so you have a
nice environment in which to run your code. The
On 27 February 2014 08:26, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote:
The advantage of something like the BBB is that it runs Linux so you have a
nice environment in which to run your code. The disadvantage of Linux is
that it's complicated and you have things like file systems that can get
In message canx10ha2qmiwc2js8xfn3jat1vxntnnbzxa8-fhq7cybf52...@mail.gmail.com
, Dr. David Kirkby writes:
On 27 February 2014 08:26, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote:
Consumer devices like routers and modems run Linux. Does anyone know
how they get around this issue?
They generally don't
On 2/27/2014 6:38 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
They generally don't mount their filesystems read/write, but only
read/only.
I've done similar things with FreeBSD in many systems (see: nanobsd)
but I don't have time or clue to figure out how to do that with Linux.
The way TiVo does this is to
Not that I can code anything. I do like several comments I see considering
real life always messes everything up.
The ability to download new code easily. To complement that the ability to
upload the current system with IPs and such. Most routers support this
approach.
The other comment make the
The BBB has 2GB of flash on board (non removable) and has a micro SD socket.
Would not be too hard to keep a backup copy of the OS and apps on the SD card
so that it would be easy to boot from SD and reload the built-in flash if the
BBB fails to boot from the built-in image.
That would not be
The only time there is any exposure is during a write operation. When the
processor board is used to run the 5370, how often is data written and what
is the exposure interval?
I would be willing to bet that Linux already has a power-fail NMI input. I
would bet that you can find out what the
On 2/27/14 6:40 AM, Didier Juges wrote:
The BBB has 2GB of flash on board (non removable) and has a micro SD socket.
Would not be too hard to keep a backup copy of the OS and apps on the SD card
so that it would be easy to boot from SD and reload the built-in flash if the
BBB fails to boot
If having a battery in the device makes some of you queasy, you could
always put it outside, on the back. But I seriously believe there are ways
to make battery backup which will not leak.
D.
On 27 Feb 2014 06:52, Chuck Harris cfhar...@erols.com wrote:
That fix presumes that the power line
You can fit linux with a comfortable amount of stuff in 20 MB, but you want
more than that for more advanced programs.
You should not use the built in ssd for writing. It has limited writes and
cannot be replaced. Use a card.
You can tailor linux so that it has minimal services but the question
In message CA+9GZUhJLqQ7K-cNXsSzPMgSOH6Oyd774SM_e0=ykljgyd4...@mail.gmail.com
, cheater00 . writes:
If having a battery in the device makes some of you queasy, you could
always put it outside, on the back. But I seriously believe there are ways
to make battery backup which will not leak.
On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 12:03 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dkwrote:
Seriously: Keeping the computer alive and eating power is
silly. We just need to find out how to get the Linux configured
correctly.
This is a solved problem. I don't understand why this discussion is
dragging
There is a spin of FreeBSD called NanoBSD, little light on the
documentation but the name pretty much says what it is about.
Either way it looks like the BBB is opening up quite a few minds. Finally a
good combination of power, i/o etc. and not to mention
the two PRU's .. just read up on them
Backup batteries don't make me queasy. The easiest,
cheapest backup battery would be a small 6V 3AH sealed
lead acid battery. It is trivial to make a good float
charger using a 3 terminal regulator and a diode, and
they do not leak, vent, or anything problematic. The
little 6V 3AH packs are
At 11:03 AM 2/27/2014, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
Seriously: Keeping the computer alive and eating power is
silly. We just need to find out how to get the Linux configured
correctly.
Exactly. We use the PC-Engines ALIX x86 single board computer stuff
at work, and even I didn't have too much
Do you have experience with FreeBSD on ARM processors?
The simple solution, which may not be possible, is to
make all software on the flash disk RO, and put any part
of the file system that needs to be written onto a RAM
disk... probably should be the /var directory.
The only time the flash
On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 6:03 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote:
In message
CA+9GZUhJLqQ7K-cNXsSzPMgSOH6Oyd774SM_e0=ykljgyd4...@mail.gmail.com
, cheater00 . writes:
If having a battery in the device makes some of you queasy, you could
always put it outside, on the back. But I
On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 6:22 PM, Scott Newell newell+timen...@n5tnl.com wrote:
At 11:03 AM 2/27/2014, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
Seriously: Keeping the computer alive and eating power is
silly. We just need to find out how to get the Linux configured
correctly.
Exactly. We use the
On 27 Feb 2014 16:55, cheater00 . cheate...@gmail.com wrote:
If having a battery in the device makes some of you queasy, you could
always put it outside, on the back. But I seriously believe there are ways
to make battery backup which will not leak.
Two batteries, each with a diode and bought
It is interesting to watch this thread. The most interesting thing is the
fact that no one has asked or answered the basic question: is there a
problem? There are a lot of solutions for what may be a complete non-issue.
Given that Linux and BSD are reliable and stable on standard PC platforms
In message
CAE3hgTcOU5cT3y-T9gYGJz4xeoob9dU8UEM4YgPuwvDWX6Q=6...@mail.gmail.com
, Brian Lloyd writes:
The only time there is any exposure is during a write operation. When the
processor board is used to run the 5370, how often is data written and what
is the exposure interval?
It runs a full
In message 530f740a.7030...@erols.com, Chuck Harris writes:
Do you have experience with FreeBSD on ARM processors?
A little bit, I just started playing with it again recently.
The simple solution, which may not be possible, is to
make all software on the flash disk RO, and put any part
of the
In message ca+9gzujtzon9+uxg1r1brxx8zyv4wnjq22qpsbityako20w...@mail.gmail.com
, cheater00 . writes:
Oh, of course it's not about keeping the computer on at all times,
it's about having a contingency for the 0.1% case when your computer
does not shut down in the assumed time.
You're missing the
There you have the problem in the above sentence from Poul-Henning. It
needs to be yank the power proof. Because that is the way the 5370 shuts
down.
That said the board and software thats been created by one person is simply
amazing and well done.
We are discussing a fine adjustment. Batteries
Hi Brian,
it's less about caching pending writes to file handles that are
waiting inside the system. That's most likely to work well within a
short period of time.
The issue is if you're using the system to its full extent. Among
others you'd like to write applications for the BBB that enhance
Most routers use a similar model and can save important settings but still
recover from a crash with no problem. There are several router distros that
are good examples on how to do it. I would suggest looking at Voyage Linux
http://linux.voyage.hk/ for an example. They have a specific versing
In message CA+9GZUgrLw05f=pvh5tji+vlkfstwatibcpe1t3xfgwq2+s...@mail.gmail.com
, cheater00 . writes:
Note that all of the shortcuts I mentioned above are fairly reasonable
defaults that save days of work per project for no improvement in
reliability, since, after all, a suitable battery only costs
On 27 February 2014 17:31, Chuck Harris cfhar...@erols.com wrote:
Backup batteries don't make me queasy. The easiest,
cheapest backup battery would be a small 6V 3AH sealed
lead acid battery. It is trivial to make a good float
charger using a 3 terminal regulator and a diode, and
they do
I have worked on lots of equipment that was sealed with
a SLA inside, and I have never seen any sign of corrosion.
Only times I have seen a problem is in the case of UPS's that
were left discharged in unheated warehouses... the electrolyte
froze and the battery cases bulged greatly, but still no
Totally agree with Chucks comment I have opened many system that have been
in service at least 5 years virtually no evidence of corrosion.
I have however opened system that do not manage the batteries correctly and
they are a mess.
But we really are drifting away from the main thread. Just want to
But we really are drifting away from the main thread.
Yes, indeed. It's time to wrap up the operating system and file system tangents
and get back to time frequency.
Those of you with positive suggestions for improvements of the 5370 processor
mod kit can email them to John Seamons
Now that you mention it, I have another small embedded system with 64MB of RAM
that runs Linux 3.4 just fine off a flash drive, so running a RAM disk in 512MB
should be feasible.
Didier KO4BB
On February 27, 2014 9:12:45 AM CST, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote:
On 2/27/14 6:40 AM, Didier
The only time there is any exposure is during a write operation
That is not true. By default, Linux updates the last access time for each file
it reads. The last access time is stored with the file, so each file read
actually causes the file to be written to as well, opening the door to all
And after all that, *STILL* no one has been able to answer the question,
Is there a problem that must be solved? Oh, lots of supposition, rules of
thumb, boatloads of experience, etc., but still no determination that
something really needs to be solved.
One of the interesting things that came
Looks like I win the fiver.
Johns created a great board for the 5370.
However you can't just turn the 5370 off as this lazy person is used to.
Plus I really have to say after a full day of time-nuttery I won't remember
to shut the linux down.
So thats the need good old shutdown controlled by the
Hi
I realize this is a bit off the main topic of … but here goes:
Is there any performance data on how the card does with a 5370A and / or a
5370B compared to the original CPU on the exact same box? Put another way -
does the counter get better or worse with the new card? I realize that an A
On Feb 28, 2014, at 4:34 PM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote:
Is there any performance data on how the card does with a 5370A and / or a
5370B compared to the original CPU on the exact same box? Put another way -
does the counter get better or worse with the new card? I realize that an A
On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 9:03 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote:
Looks like I win the fiver.
Really? You power-failed it and corrupted the file system?
Johns created a great board for the 5370.
However you can't just turn the 5370 off as this lazy person is used to.
Really? You
Le 28 févr. 2014 à 02:55, Brian Lloyd a écrit :
And after all that, *STILL* no one has been able to answer the question,
Is there a problem that must be solved? Oh, lots of supposition, rules of
thumb, boatloads of experience, etc., but still no determination that
something really needs to
In message 7984e000-057c-4790-9d20-e4dac1f60...@rtty.us, Bob Camp writes:
Is there any performance data on how the card does with a 5370A and / or a
5370B compared to the original CPU on the exact same box? Put another way -
does the counter get better or worse with the new card? I realize that
On Feb 25, 2014, at 12:59 PM, John Seamons j...@jks.com wrote:
I may have a solution for the power-off problem that doesn't involve
batteries or supercaps. It has the added advantage of providing instant-on.
From the latest documentation:
One solution to the annoyance of having to halt the
That fix presumes that the power line never quits at
inappropriate times. This winter has provided me with
ample reminders that power can go out anytime.
I think a better solution would be to find a very large
super cap and power the BBB from that while giving it
a power fail interrupt to
Thats exciting to hear
Thanks
On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 6:59 PM, John Seamons j...@jks.com wrote:
I may have a solution for the power-off problem that doesn't involve
batteries or supercaps. It has the added advantage of providing instant-on.
I need to run some tests..
Please excuse this commercial announcement (although it is a near-zero profit
endeavor).
I am now accepting general orders for the hp 5370 processor replacement board.
More info and ordering information at: www.jks.com/5370/5370.html
___
time-nuts
In message 45dfb8f9-3595-4a5d-8dcc-fd7317988...@jks.com, John Seamons writes:
I am now accepting general orders for the hp 5370 processor replacement board.
More info and ordering information at: www.jks.com/5370/5370.html
As one of the Beta-testers I can highly recommend this, it really gives
-nuts] 5370 processor boards available
Please excuse this commercial announcement (although it is a near-zero
profit endeavor).
I am now accepting general orders for the hp 5370 processor replacement
board.
More info and ordering information at: www.jks.com/5370/5370.html
Hi
Very cool. Glad I kept that stack of 5370’s….
Bob
On Feb 23, 2014, at 10:56 PM, John Seamons j...@jks.com wrote:
Please excuse this commercial announcement (although it is a near-zero profit
endeavor).
I am now accepting general orders for the hp 5370 processor replacement board.
More
Yes indeed I received my board quite quickly. And now it sits in its
rapping.
Curses that evil work stuff.
Physically it looks excellent
Regards
Paul.
WB8TSL
On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 7:35 AM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote:
Hi
Very cool. Glad I kept that stack of 5370's
Bob
On Feb 23,
An very impressive achievement. I particularly like the elegant use of the
PRU to overcome the non-real time nature of the Angstrom distribution.
Congratulations John!
Didier KO4BB
On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 9:56 PM, John Seamons j...@jks.com wrote:
Please excuse this commercial announcement
As an early adopter/beta tester, I highly recommend this board!
As yet, the board is only giving a glimpse of its potential, and
yet it is completely replacing the original 6800 processor board.
I am using a 5370A, with emulated 5370B firmware, and my A appears
to now function as B in all
Just a side note on running ethernet in your 'lab'.
If your doing any low noise work you may want to pay a bit extra and get
the shielded cables and make sure the RJ45 like sockets are of the shielded
type.
Example
http://www.pchcables.com/cashstpnecaw.html (just a local supplier nothing
else)
On 02/24/2014 08:04 AM, Pete Lancashire wrote:
Just a side note on running ethernet in your 'lab'.
If your doing any low noise work you may want to pay a bit extra and get
the shielded cables and make sure the RJ45 like sockets are of the shielded
type.
Example
What has me also interested is I have a 5370A with its front panel pretty
much destroyed.
BB has recently released a 7 touch screen LCD w/daughter board for $119.
I see a project for next winter on the horizon.
-pete
On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 7:56 PM, John Seamons j...@jks.com wrote:
Please
Hi,
I browsed the page and the GitHub repository for a while, and read the
readme and read-more documents, but I still don't know what it
actually adds.
Perhaps it would be a good idea to document this?
Cheers,
D.
On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 9:38 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote:
In
Goto one of the places selling the BB Black and look up BB View.
Not pushing this disty just one that has a decent image
http://www.element14.com/community/docs/DOC-55844/l/element14-bb-view-lcd-cape-for-beaglebone-family-boards
On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 1:50 AM, cheater00 .
D
I can give you some insights here. Others will be more effective. We all
agree that the 5370 frequency counters are great devices from 1980. Right
there is the first issue. The old micros are getting old and failing. I
have lost both 6800s and eproms.
Thank heavens stuff is still available.
But
In message cad2jfahdzgnfwnzkyo7sfj4pqvnussy8ns9u3sdjyf+vymt...@mail.gmail.com
, paul swed writes:
The only thing that can be annoying is there is a shut down procedure for
the unit now. It used to be power off.
That should be fixable, given enough Linux-clue.
(I could trivially do it on
Thanks for the info.
It could still be power off... just add a large capacitor as voltage backup
and make the unit sense when power is off. It should be able to shut down
quickly enough. That's how it works most of the time. Alternatively add
some 1.5v batteries and a charger. That should never
Going to leave the battery comment alone. Most people with HP and other
gear of age have experienced the dreaded leaking batteries from really
poorly designed charging circuits. Even HP did the resistor diode thing.
Regards
Paul.
On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 1:24 PM, cheater00 . cheate...@gmail.com
I may have a solution for the power-off problem that doesn't involve batteries
or supercaps. It has the added advantage of providing instant-on. I need to run
some tests..
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