Since we are involved in
exchanging thoughts here, let me shareone or two about the theology that
hasarisen from the idea of 'perichoresis' a seeminglyALL
important 'trinitarian doctrine of God' as a 'relational being'; a trinity of
three individuals all doing this divine dance with one
I may have unfairly jumped to a conclusion
concerningyour concept, Slade, thus lumping you into a group in which you
do not fit. If this isso, please forgive me. When you
wrote, "see the miracles of Yeshua," I was thinking Yeshua would need to be
visibly present to be seen working the
I do not look to the Scribes for wisdom, Judy;
neither do I look to Charles Ryrie. On this occasion I agree with the Scribes
over Ryrie.How did you missthat from what I wrote? Oh, I get it: you
just wanted to insult me.
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To:
Judy,
I think it would be better to just let your words
shrivel on their own. You are so wrinkled over anything your brothers have
saidthat no words now could smooth things over.And sinceI am sure everyone else understands that a
dance is harmony and not the different partners off doing
The insult could be promoting
"another Jesus" an anti Christ, in the sense of (in place of) and this is
whatwe are warned against. Israel did it all the time. They followed their
own wayward hearts and their own ideas. Being obdurant, stiff necked, and
refusing to allow the Spirit
Hi John,
There are numerous theologians, some of whom are
wonderfully Christian,who have read the creation account as allegory and
have not taken it literally. And so you are not alone if you conclude that
"Adam"represents collective mankind. For several reasons I do not agree
with this
"Hatred stirs up strife, but love covers all sins"
(Pro 10.12).
Thank you, Slade, a calm voice and some clarity.
And thank you further for giving me opportunity to
expand upon my thinking before jumping to conclusions.
Blessings,
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
Slade
Yes, G, I agree. Great insights. Oh, and you would
be right even if I didn't agree. hehe
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] God Hates
Matt 12
28But if I
Hi Bill. Don't get me wrong on this one. I am not one who takes the creation claims as allegory. Chapter 1:26,27 presents (to my thinking) a contextual consideration that allows (if not demands) the text to say that "mankind" is the view. I actually researched this one before drawing my
Slade, are you saying below that
you don't really believe the gate is strait and the way is narrow that leads
to life and that these 400+
other ways to heaven don't cause a lot of confusion? Even the New Age, Buddhist, Hindu et all
claim that there is just one
god and many paths leading to
John
I do not have a problem with"Adam" referring
to "mankind," not if mankind came through Adam. I also believe that God
did create us all, just not all of us at the same time. I'll let you write on
and see where you are going.
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL
My
intent was not to be belligerent. I do not think Heaven will be filled with only
Messianic Jewish believer and you shouldn't think the Kingdom will be inhabited
by Baptists or whatever denomination to which you adhere.
The
path is already narrow. Why make it narrower?
-Original
Bill, I find beauty in the
Truth and I don't see this 'perichoresis' phenomenon revealed therein. You
are free to do what you want with my words However, calling me "wrinkled"
is a bit ironic - kind oflike the pot calling the kettle black ...
:) I don't reject all thatmy brothers/sisters
jt: I'm not making it any
narrower than it is already Slade but we've been warned about adding to and/or
subtracting from what is written. As for denominations. I don't claim any
of them - I'm willing to submit to and walk in fellowship with anyone through
whom I hear the voice of the
Bill:
I tend to
agree with the Scribes over the limited view of
Ryrie
jt:
Why look to the [S]cribes
for wisdom?
meaning jt prefersthis
theologian's view?
why his?
G
On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 07:40:38 -0600 "Wm. Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I do not look to the Scribes for wisdom,
I really should already be gone but I wanted to add a comment -- my ego constrains me!!
The reason why we include the 400 (or more) in our search for truth is rather obvious to me and Judy knows this scripture before I am able to finish the text:
Eph 4:11ff " And He gave some as apostles,
Thank you, John, well said.
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 9:06
AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Why the listen
to voices from the past?
I really should already be
On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 10:59:33 -0400 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
..I'm willing to submit to
and walk in fellowship with anyone through whom I hear the voice of the
Savior.
are you sure?
Go ahead and talk about him
And regarding the many and diverse denominations going on, I
believe that God uses them for good wherever we allow Him to. I look at them as stepping stones for
those hungering after a deeper walk with God. Anyone can find a church where they feel
comfortable at the moment, where they can
I really like those lyrics, Gso true!!! BTW, didnt Dylan get saved and
then lapse back into his old ways?
Im not trying to slander him or anything, but Ive wondered
what happened to him. Whats
the latest on his walk with the Lord? Izzy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL
Bravo, bravo! Well said, Izzy. Right
on.
bill
- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 9:20
AM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Why the listen
to voices from the past?
And
regarding the many and diverse
he's Jewish; reverts to
thoughtalong the lines ofSlades; sings by choice most of the
timeat county fairs and minor league baseball stadiumsrather than
(as in the past at, e.g., ) _Royal Albert Hall_ ..
..Well I'm pressing onYes, I'm pressing
onWell I'm pressing onTo the higher calling of
Judy:Please remember that everyone loooved
the'Drake' until he and the 'Drakette' broke up. God loooves 'theologians'
andno break up in sight.
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: July 24, 2004 10:33
Subject: [TruthTalk] 400+ different
theologies and
There are numerous theologians, some of whom
are wonderfully Christian, who have read the creation account as allegory and have not taken it
literally. And so you are not alone if you conclude that "Adam" represents
collective mankind. For several reasons I do not agree with this account.
\o/ !HALALU
Yah! \o/
JOYOUS Sabbath Greetings in
the Matchless Name of YahShua
!
My background was in the midst of the
growing 'Jesus' movement right in my backyard from 1970. I was part of it
both in the foreground and moreso in the background. I knew many of todays
"contemporary
\o/ !HALALU
Yah! \o/
Greetings in the Matchless Name of YahShua !
EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED!
Well, Judy ... bravo, very well put ... I am in complete
agreement.
Now ... folks are arriving to PRAISE WORSHIP YHVH ... or as one very dear
and precious elder in the faith is sometime wont to
On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 11:05:50 -0500 "Chris Barr" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
..Dylan..emphasizing his new found faith were not enough for
them...
If You find it in Your heart, can I be
forgiven?Guess I owe You some kind of apology.I've escaped death so
many times, I
G:'Masked and Anonymous' was his most recent movie
appearance. It was almost as enigmatic as you and I.
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: July 24, 2004 11:45
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] 400+ different
theologies and systems
Judy:I don't understand your reluctance to 'own up'
to being TT's resident theologian and exegete.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: July 24, 2004 12:00
Subject: [TruthTalk] Smithson, Taylor and
the Canucks ... especially for
What a nice surprise Chris, glad
to know I haven't alienated everybody :) I was going to write and thank
you
for the insight about Dylan and
the interesting post about philosophy and the Church Fathers. Shame on
us. Professing Christendom
is still so into celebrity; I see it here also as
I knew he was Jewish; does he also still embrace Yeshua as his
Lord? (I remember seeing him in concert in St. Louis on a high school datebefore he
got saved. What a trip!) Izzy
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, July
Good points, jt!!! Now, to be the devils advocate (moi?)
is it possible that Jesus received ANY blood, genes, or anything
physical from Mary? And what about Josephcould the Father have used anything from him supernaturally, being in the lineage of
David? If so, would that mean Jesus was
True, jtbut they have to be there
for Him to work in spite of them. J Izzy
I believe
God works in spite of rather than because of them.
Bob Dylan, whowas born
a Jew, converted to Christianity in 1978-79. Just thought you guys might want to
know. I wonder where Chris's "backyard" was back then and if he was smokin' the
fringe of his tunic, got a bit confused and has remained that way. If anyone
doubts the information on
The
whole world groans under the weight of sin. It has polluted the very "fabric" of
space. We, as weak human beings, are incapable of rising above it without divine
assistance, so we swim and we drown in it. Yeshua, as God, was able to walk on
these waters, so to speak, and that gave Him
It is an oft repeated error since the 2nd
century ... hence "church fathers" leading away from the faith once
delivered. You see, the "rock stars" from the early centuries of the
common era were the philosophers. Justin Martyr and Tertullian (as well as
countless others) were pagan
Judy wrote no I didn't just want to insult you; I
am sharing my thoughts here, have never been into ad hominem attacks on
TT.
Well then you obviously need to be a little more
selective in your wording, Judy, because you are offensive, very much so, and
sometimes you are called on it, like
From: "Wm. Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Judy wrote no I didn't just want to insult you; I
am sharing my thoughts here, have never been into ad hominem attacks on
TT.
Well then you obviously need to be a little more
selective in your wording, Judy, because you are offensive, very much so, and
Right on Izzy. To imagine that God cannot use the denominational world to accomplish His will for the individual believer is to arguer that our God is too small. We need to keep reminding each other of this message, especially in a forum such as this which draws from such divergent points of
On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 11:39:50
-0500 "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
[re: attendg Bob Dylan's] concert..before
he got
saved..
how about asong he wrote in '63;
is that after 'he got saved'?
(sounds like GB Shea--eh?
:)
Oh the time will come upWhen the winds will stopAnd
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]I really should already be gone but I wanted to add a
comment -- my ego constrains me!!The reason why we include the 400 (or
more) in our search for truth is rather obvious to me and Judy knows this
scripture before I am able to finish the text:Eph 4:11ff "
And He
I sent this out too soon and it
was badly in need of editing ... Sorry 'j'
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]I really should already be gone but I wanted to add a
comment -- my ego constrains me!!The reason why we include the 400 (or
more) in our search for truth is rather obvious to me and Judy knows
In a message dated 7/24/2004 9:40:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Nope! I'm an ordinary every day follower of Jesus who loves the truth of His Word. Understand I'm not against people in strange and in far-out systems (I've been through my share of them also including the
Much of what you say below, Judy is good. However, blood line does seem to be important. Luke is the one who gives us the lineage of Christ back to Adam, not Bill.
(Luke chapter 3).
JD
- Original Message -
From: Judy Taylor
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 07/24/2004 11:00 AM
In a message dated 7/24/2004 11:39:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
jt: Is it the content of what I say Bill, or the way I am saying it? Should I pray for more delicate wording?
I hope you know that my regard for you is sincere -- but you can be a little short, as they say
Question for you jt: How
do you define original sin?
Do you think that a child who dies prior to getting saved will go to
hell? If so, you believe in original sin. (I dont) If original sin does not
exist (I cant find it in my Bible), then we humans are only born into a
fallen world with
Jt, if that comment was
meant for me (re: a seeker-friendly church we attend) let me say that it is a very
relational community of Believers. Also a very evangelical oneeven though it is entirely
non-traditional and non-churchy. The lives changed there
are amazing. We baptized 110+ folks a
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Much of what you say below, Judy is good.
However, blood line does seem to be important. Luke is the one who
gives us the lineage of Christ back to Adam, not Bill. (Luke chapter
3). JD
jt: There
is a genealogy in Matthew also but we already know that Jesus is the
Th-Th-Tha-anks, brother. Point well
taken.
bill
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 3:59
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] God Hates
Blaspheming
In a message dated 7/24/2004
No Izzy I didn't direct that
remark to anyone in particular, glad you are so happy in your part of
the Church. Do the
spiritual gifts operate and do they lay hands on the sick and cast out
demons? This is what I
long to see - along with good spiritual discernment in the leadership, that
From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Question
for you jt: How do you define original sin?
jt: I'm not sure that my understanding is the same as
that of the Church Fathers and I am sureit is different from what Calvin
taught. I've been trying to find a more accurate definition of the
'we'll shout from the bow your days
are numbered'
of course; e.g., thethought
of Moses (Ps 90 'teach us to number our days')
present in Dylan'sNT eschatological
perspective,rooted in JCs evenin '63,isfar removed
fromyour basic Jewish-Evangelical asceticism and
legalism;hedidn't say'I'll
study Moses
On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 19:04:37
-0400 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
jt: I'm not sure that my understanding is the same as that of
the Church Fathers and I am sureit is different from what Calvin taught.
I've been trying to find a more accurate definition of
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In a message dated 7/24/2004 11:39:58 AM Pacific Daylight
Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:jt: Is it the content of what I say Bill, or the way I am saying
it? Should I pray for more delicate wording?
I hope you know that my regard for you is sincere --
but you can be
\o/ !HALALU
Yah! \o/
Greetings in the Matchless Name of YahShua !
jt: Do you believe that
there is aGodhead Chris? How wouldyou explain
it?
If we were to "level the playing field"
and agree to discuss this subject from Scripture only, using only Scriptural
words, this discussion
Greetings in the Matchless Name of YahShua !
jt: Do you believe that
there is aGodhead Chris? How wouldyou explain
it?
If we were to "level the playing field"
and agree to discuss this subject from Scripture only, using only Scriptural
words, this discussion would be much easier. Is
As to "nice surprises" how about this ...
that 'More Excellent Way' book came to our home through one in our
congregation. My wife has been reading it and said she sees a lot of good
in it.
jt: That is a "nice surprise"
I'd be interested in what she thinks after she gets into it a bit
\o/ !HALALU
Yah! \o/
Greetings in the Matchless Name of YahShua !
- Original Message -
From: Wm. Taylor
Sent: 07/23/2004 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Smithson, Taylor
and the Canucks ... especially for y'all
Not offended in the least, Chris, just a bit slow.
Thanks for
\o/ !HALALU
Yah! \o/
Greetings in the Matchless Name of YahShua !
- Original Message -
From: Judy Taylor
Sent: 07/24/2004 7:10 PM
Subject: JUDY -- Re: [TruthTalk] Dylan
wrecked by reckless Christianity
jt: Thank you Chris, this is
interesting but entirely too much for me to
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