Very good post.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CD wrote The scripture does show a difference between to first man Adam and the second man Adam. Can you point out those differences to help us clear the air so to speak.Thanks
Hi Dean,
I
[At least] Two kinds of knowing -- scientific and persoanl. At some point, our faith cannot be rationally explained. It must simply be accept in faith.
The only way one can truly know another -- actually, let's say it this way, the only way I can know you is for you to fully surrender to me.
[Original Message]
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Date: 1/30/2006 7:48:23 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
I'm not caught up on reading, but I just have to say, Judy, that you are
not
hearing Bill properly. He did answer
[Original Message]
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Date: 1/30/2006 7:55:04 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech
David Miller wrote:
It is not a sin to attend a Benny Hinn service seeking
for a healing from God. It is a sin for the University
- Original Message -
From: Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/30/2006 8:50:48 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
cd: Well put Judy. Christ did not come as our heathen state or He would also have been a heathen
- Original Message -
From: Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/30/2006 8:55:48 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
That does not surprise me.
cd: If one thinks and asks why to things Bill-he will see more.He is of the Godhead but there was a
- Original Message -
From: Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/30/2006 8:51:36 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ, the Root and the Offspring of David
I have explained this numerous times, Judy. Reread my post of a few days ago pertaining to the intrinsic vs
- Original Message -
From: Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/30/2006 10:33:43 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
Dean does not say that Jesus was or is the second Adam, Judy. He says instead that"Jesus was of the second [Adam]," which is what I
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/30/2006 11:23:33 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
myth (JC was human before his death)
On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:53:37 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] quotes Darby like a dictionary:
cd: Don't let you thoughts drop to the gutters guys-take them into captivity-resist!
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/31/2006 12:00:40 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ, the Root and the Offspring of David
ifyou're thinkin' of askin' JCs
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/30/2006 11:41:08 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
who said this(?) :
'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
cd: JC- G:-)
From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]I don't
think you are hearing us properly David. WE/I am saying thatChrist did not
appear in our heathren state-He appeared in the state we areafter salvation
not before salvation. As a born again believer I have fleshand blood I can
choose to sin-but
Hello Christine:
If you and your dad are NOT on the side of "neither
male nor female" as per the Scriptures then, you (both) are on the side of
"suppression". Also, that would place you (both) against the Lord on this issue.
What is happening to you at the U of F is simply comparable to the
You, David, like many, are FOR THE BIBLE, as you put it, when you massage it
to your own ends. One the FEMALE free speech issue you are simply
unbiblical. Deal with it, David (by extension Christine, Mrs. David etc.)
- Original Message -
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To:
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: January 30, 2006 12:36
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The spirit of anti-christ
orthodxy IS the issue. either the heresies at hand were settled by
the fathers or they were settled by the Nestoriuns. either St.
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/31/2006 12:37:43 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
Dean, I hope that you are coming to a decision that Jesus in the flesh was not God in the flesh. This is a very
Amen Dean!!
That too. There is so much that indicates Jesus
is not as orthodoxy paints Him. I want reality
I don't want him to be less than or more than God's
Word reveals. I want to know the Truth that
will make me/us free.
On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 07:03:07 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]I don't
think you are hearing us properly David. WE/I am saying thatChrist did not
appear in our heathren state-He appeared in the state we areafter salvation
not before salvation. As a born again believer I have fleshand blood I can
choose to sin-but
It's not and what's more you can be "as you say"
assumed and still be unhealed. Every worldly person is
not headed for heaven Megohmrod or whoever you
are. Nothing is written in the flesh of your heart that you don't
accept and embrace ie: Love Him and do what he
says - which of course
cd: Typical Augustinian response by way of Calvin.I readhim as saying: Why should one fear God because we are in the covanent and he has no fear that He too could fall.
1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends
- Original Message -
From: Judy Taylor
To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/31/2006 7:08:09 AM
Subject: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]I don't think you are hearing us properly David. WE/I am saying thatChrist did not
How very deceiving ...
No, Jesus is the covenant and we get in on it if
invited ...
On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 08:19:45 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
cd: Typical Augustinian
response by way of Calvin.I readhim as saying: Why should one fear God
because we are in the
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/31/2006 12:27:38 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
Dean, did you answer this post that Judy has decided to argue? I was hoping for your answer.
- Original Message -
From: Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/30/2006 11:45:22 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
CD wrote The scripture does show a difference between to first man Adam and the second man Adam. Can you point out those
Dean, what is your definition of sin and would you please give me a few examples of "sin."
You say in this post that before your being "born again," you had no choice but to sin. So, are you saying that the person outside Christ HAS to commit adultery when faced with that temptation? That, when
You are denying that Christ was God in the flesh !!
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/31/2006 12:37:43 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
Dean, I hope that you are coming to a decision that Jesus in the
You are a false prohetess , Judy. This is an absolutely terrible decision for Dean. Such a decision puts him outside the very Christ he claims to serve. A terrible terrible thing to decide.
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Amen Dean!!
That
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behooved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the
In the KJ , the translation is "in all things" which is the same, OF COURSE, as "in
Dean, you did not answer but, if you now denying that Christ was God in the flesh, don't bother.
jd
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/31/2006 12:27:38 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
Dean,
Of course God has invited every single human being
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
How very deceiving ...
No, Jesus is the covenant and we get in on it if invited ...
On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 08:19:45 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Dave, free speech has limitations. We recognize that. One
cannot yell fire in a crowded theater when there is no fire, and one cannot go
into someone's house, turn off his TV, and start preaching to him.
Obscenity also is not considered acceptable when we talk about free
speech.
The idea
The question is this: what are YOU teaching, Dean? You failed to answer my questions. Here they are , once again:
You make it sound so simple, Dean. Which commandments. The 613 ?
Those commandments that continue the practice of Judaism? How would any of His listeners see it differently? And
RE: [TruthTalk] the FWs about free speech thingyThe working of iniquity
expresses itself in many ways. The homosexual agenda and the feminine
movement is part of it. It is the spirit of Antichrist. The concept is
expressed in 2 Thess. 2:7. Paul's foundation is from the book of Daniel.
I did generalize too much. I know some who do not wave underwear and preach condemnation to the masses. Talk about generalizing !!
But what I have seen expressed on this site and (especially) on that other site is the very thing I had in mind when I wrote the post in question.
jd
Lance wrote:
Judy preaches a 'Zirchon' (looks real but
isn't) Jesus and, you are not offended.
You are mischaracterizing Judy. Judy believes that Jesus is real.
Lance wrote:
You and yours appear comfortable in giving offence
(other than that given by the preaching of the GENUINE
JESUS) but
Which Jesus is 'real', David? I have every confidence that who Jesis is
matters to you. To the extent that Judy influences others with her 'Jesus'
she is not an influence for good (teaching.)
It may be that you take exception to 'language' more than I.
Your nation Original Message -
cd wrote:
If it [flesh] was weak show me one biblical
account where it was weak-and we will discuss
that
Here are two:
Matthew 4:2-3
(2) And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an
hungred.
(3) And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God,
Judy's theology, David, may be 'the spirit of the Antichrist'. I believe
that it is.
- Original Message -
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 31, 2006 12:20
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] the FWs about free speech thingy
RE: [TruthTalk] the
cd:
I disagree David-why seek Hinn for the healing
and not Christ.
They are not seeking Hinn instead of Christ. They are seeking Christ. God
gives different gifts to different people. Some have gifts of healings. I
have been to five of Kathryn Kuhlman's meetings, and I believe that she
Judy wrote:
If we can be adopted as sons into the
household of God - why can't God the
Word be adopted into humanity as the
son of man?
The only foundation for our adoption is that Christ became flesh. Without
that, nobody can be adopted into the household of God.
David Miller.
Judy wrote:
I have never denied that Christ came in the
flesh so the above accusation is that of a lying
spirit.
Judy, you are not hearing Bill if you accuse him of a lying spirit. Let me
show you why I say this.
Bill had asked you:
I believe he was fruit of David's genitals according
to
cd:
I don't think you are hearing us properly David.
WE/I am saying that Christ did not appear in
our heathren state-He appeared in the state we
are after salvation nor before salvation.
I agree with this. This is not what I heard from Judy.
Do you believe that as a baby, Jesus cried and
cd wrote:
When the women with the issue of blood touched
the robe of Christ-Her faith lead her to the source
and when she touched the source virtue flowed
from the source. It took both faith and the source
of virtue to heal her. Are you saying that B. Hinn
holds this type of virtue David?
I
Judy wrote:
There is so much that indicates Jesus
is not as orthodoxy paints Him.
It seems to me that traditional orthodoxy is closer to your point of view.
That is what led to the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception in the Roman
Catholic Church. Logic tends to mandate that if Jesus was
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/31/2006 9:40:41 AM
Subject: [TruthTalk] What is sin?
Dean, what is your definition of sin and would you please give me a few examples of "sin."
You say in this post that before your
Title: Interesting observation
- Original Message -
From: Debbie Sawczak
To: 'Lance Muir'
Sent: January 31, 2006 13:26
Subject: Interesting observation
Somewhat ironically, given Judy's
remarks about Roman Catholicism and the orthodox view of Jesus' humanity, here
is a quote from
Lance wrote:
Which Jesus is 'real', David? I have every confidence
that who Jesis is matters to you. To the extent that Judy
influences others with her 'Jesus' she is not an influence
for good (teaching.)
Is Judy a teacher in the body of Christ?
Judy, would you clarify what you perceive to
- Original Message -
From: David Miller
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/31/2006 12:09:34 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] the FWs about free speech thingy
Dave, free speech has limitations. We recognize that. One cannot yell fire in a crowded theater when there is no fire,
Amen to this. It seems obvious to me that if Christ was not God in the flesh, His coming to earth was quite unnecessary. All of the business of saving man could have been done by God without actuallyappearing in the flesh
jd
-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir"
The teaching of anti-Christ doctrine is not deserving of patience. It is far to dangerous a theology to be allowed without proper recognition. This forum is not a church. Judy's attendance, then, is "welcomed" on that basis. You, David, see "prophet(ess), apostle, bishop, evangelist and teacher "
[Original Message]
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Date: 1/31/2006 1:11:19 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech
cd:
I disagree David-why seek Hinn for the healing
and not Christ.
They are not seeking Hinn instead of Christ. They are seeking
[Original Message]
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Date: 1/31/2006 1:47:16 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
cd:
I don't think you are hearing us properly David.
WE/I am saying that Christ did not appear in
our heathren
[Original Message]
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Date: 1/31/2006 1:53:07 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech
cd wrote:
When the women with the issue of blood touched
the robe of Christ-Her faith lead her to the source
and when she touched
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/31/2006 10:01:58 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
You are denying that Christ was God in the flesh !!
cd: No I am not John. I am saying that there is a
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/31/2006 10:13:36 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [TruthTalk] The spirit of anti-christ
Of course God has invited every single human being
cd; Of course John.
-- Original message
Title: Interesting observation
cd:L The "F" word was enough for me.Debbie has nothing to teach me Lance.
- Original Message -
From: Lance Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/31/2006 3:11:15 PM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Interesting observation
- Original Message
Lance wrote:
You, David, like many, are FOR THE
BIBLE, as you put it, when you massage
it to your own ends.
Not true, Lance. The Bible is useful for instruction in righteousness. It
not not meant to be massaged to one's own ends.
Lance wrote:
One the FEMALE free speech issue you are
JD wrote:
She has preached against the deity of
the incarnate Christ for a good long while
-- over a year.
This is not a proper characterization of what Judy believes. It is
difficult to discuss truth when one side constantly misrepresents what the
other side believes. Judy has never
Dean, do you think in school that Jesus never missed a question on a test in
his whole life? Did he ever drop his keys, was his penmanship always
perfect, when he drew a picture, was it the most beautiful picture ever
drawn? What about his physique, was he the most handsome man ever created,
I am rethinking that as Christ said only God is good-I now find that one piece is sweeter than the other-but God gave all power to Christ so He now is also sweeter-think about it and slow down stating on what I believe-thanks bro..cd
jd responds:
You write it - I think you believe it, Dean.
So tell Judy.
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/31/2006 10:13:36 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [TruthTalk] The spirit of anti-christ
Of course God has invited every single human being
cd; Of course John.
--
I love it. We can blasphemy the very nature of Christ but that is fine. Surely I am not the only one who actually saw the point of Debbie's discussion. As I remember, she was trying to make a point about the use of the word "sodomite." And her presentation worked - except for one thing; she
The reasons for her difficulty and the history lesson constitute information that is more than obvious, David. Unnecessary.
She most definitely hasdenied that Jesus is God in the flesh.But you, of course, seem to think there are other matters that are more important, so maybe you missed it.
I
Bill wrote: I believe he was the fruit of
David's genitals according to the flesh, Judy. Do you believe the
same?
Judy replied: No . .
.
Bill then replied: This should clarify any confusion Dean may have had
about being in agreement with [Judy] in regards to Christ being a
David writesI affirm [Judy's] position about Christ's Divinity as much
as I affirm Bill's position about his humanity. I'm just patient that she
will, in time, understand.
David, I know you did not intend by your statement to imply that I affirm
only Christ's humanity while denying his
you wantthe
what??
On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 15:01:57 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
You are denying that Christ was God in the flesh !!
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/31/2006
On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 18:47:08 -0500 "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:What was
revolutionary for them was..that he was [both] a man,[and] that he
was the Son of God..
yo, Bro, calm
down--DaveH cantake you a deeper level intothe "F" word
thanDebbieever thought of--just ask him very politely forhis
greater revelation concerning JCs Momma
On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 00:30:19 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cd:L
..roflx666!
On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:21:20 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
you wantthe
what??
On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 15:01:57 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
You are denying that Christ was God in the flesh !!
- Original Message -
From:
He has invited all to the banquet JD but most are too busy to bother which is evident by their rhetoric. So too many will not be properly attired when the wedding feast actually happens.
Sadly!!!
cdwrites: So I ask you How is one
able to produce destruction for men while the other produces a quickening spirit
for men?
And so it is written, "The first man Adam became a
living being." The last Adam became a life-giving Spirit.
-- 1 Corinthians 15.45-47
The first Adam was
what level is this
from?
On Wed, 1 Feb 2006 04:08:01 GMT "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
He has invited all to the banquet JD but ..too many will not be properly
attired when the wedding feast actually happens.
David, Actually I am saying the same as Dean. I believe Jesus walked about in a flesh and blood body. I just don't accept that it was a fallen (under the Adamic curse) flesh and blood body which is what I am understanding the rest of you to be saying. Dean is the only one whose Christology I can
I'd have to disagree with every point made by Bill in his post about the two Adams; Bill you are totally into flesh and blood - even your theology is earthly. The first Adam was fruitful and he did multiply - in the flesh. He had Cain, Abel, Seth and no telling how many others since he lived for
It's from the parable of the wedding fest which you may have relegated to some other dispensation. However, I believe it will happen and those who have not been feasting on His Word but have been occupied with the dregs of this fallen world will get to spend eternity being entertained by what they
JD you are too full of your own importance and you exaggerate everything out of all proportion; we are all just sheep - plain old professing believers and you say as many outrageous and outlandish things as the next person. I would not be found sitting in the seat of the scornful if I were you.
Did I miss an introduction??!!
Anyway -- the post below is spoken as well as a works salvationist can muster. Proper wedding attire is not the key to my salvation. Actually, I don't even own a suit !!
Now, on the other hand, if you reference Gal 3:26-27and the "putting on Christ,"I stand
David, I don't see the immaculate conception and the assumption of Mary as divinely inspired ideas; both are the thinking of religious spirits through men of the cloth.Also I believe that going on and on about David's genitals is equally bizarre.
What is too difficult for God? Does he have to do
David, Can you imagine any ordinary 12 year old boy being so caught up in the things of God that he goes to the temple, loses all track of time, and amazes the men of the cloth there with the understanding shown by his questions? Then when his parents find him after a three day absence he asks
Judy, you write as though you think you are disputing my
comments; however, you are not:
1. "Bill you are totally into flesh and blood - even
your theology is earthly." Not only is this an ad hominem
argument, it is also untrue. If of late my focus has been upon Christ's human
JTwrites Also I believe that going on
and on about David's genitals is equally bizarre.
Why, Judy? Is it because it is biblical and you can't blame it
on Orthodoxy? Christ was born the genetic descendant of David; he is
thefruit of David's genitalsaccording to the flesh.
Bill
-
Christ is not the literal seed of David's genitals Bill and by your insistance that he is you have far more scripture to explain away than I do.
The reason the Messiah was to be born of the woman was because she is less responsible than Adam for the transgression. She was deceived, Adam was not.
Judy, your very style of response is that of the scornful. It is what you are about. But be that as it may.
What we believe is one thing, Judy. What we teach others is another matter altogether. James' advice is "be not many [of you] teachers." Why? Because words shared can make a difference in
We all know that I am the one who makes a big deal of Rom 5:12 and the part that says ".through one man sin entered the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all BECAUSE ALL HAVE SINNED."
Well, thank God for Billy T . Look to point #4:
4. "He is the Lord from Heaven; and
Your works-oriented theology is over-heated at this point. And misinformed.
to think that the woman is not as infected as the man is nonsense. Job 25: 4 reads this wise: How then can man be righteous before God? And how can he be pure who is born of a woman?
-- Original message
What is too difficult for God? You use this very qustion to win the day. But I ask the same question of you. Indeed, Judy, if nothing is too difficult for God, then why can't God mean what He actually says concerning Jesus being from the you -know-whats of David !!!
-- Original
David writes:
John wrote: I used to believe that man, apart from Christ, had no choice when it came to sin. I no longer believe that to be the case. Man does have a choice. Adam had a choice.
Make sure you study Pelagianism very closely. You are moving close to that position. Such leads to
free speech has limitations. We recognize that.
DAVEH: Really! Who determines those limitations? In a theater,
governmental law determines whether one can yell fire or not. Same
with going into one's house. And...the same can apply to standing
outside someone's house and disrupting the
DM,
You, of course, preach personal effort all the time. "Repent or perish" is a part of your ministry. And your belief that your personalvictory over sin - that you do not sin -is of the power of the Spirit is nothing more than will worhsip with a tag on it that reads "Born of the Spirit." When
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