Re: [TruthTalk] On Echad
Good post --- but I believe I have the book AND the glossary. JD In a message dated 1/11/2005 3:09:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The Oneness of YHVH vs. Plurality One of the greatest arguments against the concept of the deity of Messiah is that YHVH is an absolute ONE. With this concept, there is no room for the Ruach haKodesh[1] or Messiah[2] as being YHVH as well. The Antimissionary movement uses this argument to ward against the validity of Christianity and the Brit Hadasha[3]. In this instance, the tactics and arguments used by Antimissionaries and those who do not believe in the deity of Messiah are the same. However, the Anti-deity people do not seem to realize their points discredit the very foundation of their faith. Defining Echad As Plurality Devarim[4] 6:4, the watchword of the faith, tells us I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"YHVHI style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal", Eloheinu[5]I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal" [our Elohim]I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal", YHVH is one. The Hebrew word used for I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"one is echad. People love to quote teachers who tell us echad means a unity. However, it does not always mean a unity; nor, it does not always mean a singularity either. We must carefully address the context of the passage or sentence in order to determine if echad is declaring a unity or a singularity. In Bereshit[7] 1:5, 2:24, and 11:6 provides three examples where echad is a unity, as opposed to a singularity. For instance, in Bereshit 1:5, one morning and one evening constitutes one day. In Bereshit 2:24, a woman and one man create one flesh; meanwhile in Bereshit 11:6, the whole of humanity is considered one people. As shown, in all three examples given, the idea of completion or the coming-together can be easily seen. I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"ElohimI style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal" called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was eveningI style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal" and was morningI style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal", one [echad]I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal" day. (Bereshit 1:5) I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and cling to his wifeI style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"; and they shall become one [echad]I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal" flesh. (Bereshit 2:24) In Malakhi 2:13-16, we see a wretched priesthood who is grievously sinning. The people were not learning the ways of YHVH from the very ones who were to be examples. The phrase she is thy companion used in verse 14 in the KJV really should be translated she is thy joining, indicating that the covenant of marriage does indeed make a man and a woman echad. Refer also to Ephesians 5:28-29 33, 1 Corinthians 12:12-14, 1 Corinthians 6:15-17, and 2 Corinthians 3:17. Further in the Ephesians text, Shaul of Tarsus compares the joining of a man and his wife and the love and fear expected in that relationship with the Messiah and the Ekklesia (Ephesians 5:30-33). See also Yochanan 10:22-33, 17:20-23, I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"And YHVHI style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal" said, See, the people are (singular)I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal" one [echad],I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal" and their tongue is one to all of them. And this is what they are beginning to do, and now nothing will be impossible for them all which they purpose to do. (Bereshit 11:6) The concept of more than one being defined as one is a readily accepted principle. In the United States of America, people were once taught the Pledge of Allegiance, which contains the phrase oI style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"ne nation, under GodI style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal", indivisible This concept is not too hard to grasp. To continue with this thought, Shemot[8] 26:1-1-6 gives us an overview of the building of the Mishkan[9]. The inner or lower section is constructed of 10 linen curtains. The curtains are held together with 50 gold clasps. Once together, the 10 curtains are called echad Mishkan. (Shemot 13:13) The outer or upper section (Shemot 26:7-13) is called the tent. It is constructed out of 11 curtains of goat hair. These are held together by 50 bronze clasps and, as a unit, they are also called echad tent.[10] Additionally, the two large curtains together are called echad Mishkan. (Shemot 36:14-8) In the Greek Brit Hadasha, we have a Hebraic perspective one. In Revelation 21:9-11, the Bride is introduced to Yochanan the Prophet, but in verse, the prophet is shown a city coming down out of Heaven. However, in many Scriptures, the Bride of Messiah is the community of believers (Revelation 19:7-8, 18:23). Therefore, the Bride, New Yerushalayim, and the Believers are echad. Defining Echad As Singular Meanwhile, Bereshit 2:21 and 4:19 are but two of many examples that demonstrate the concept of echad being a singularity.
RE: [TruthTalk] On Echad
No. -- slade -Original Message-From: Bill TaylorSent: Tuesday, 11 January, 2005 23.51Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] On Echad Would you agree with me that in light of God's fuller self-revelation of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in the New Testament, there is very solid evidence upon which to conclude that echad in Deuteronomy, as it relates to the oneness God, and as it is quoted in the New Testament, does in fact reflect and refer to a coming together to form a oneness by way of unity, and that to the contraryit does not refer to an absolute singularity, as even some Christians are wont to insist?
RE: [TruthTalk] On Echad
The reason for the brevity is because the answer required brevity. To go further would simply force my foot in my mouth ormy words may stumble intoapostasy. G-d is s big I cannot begin to define even His edges, were they to exist. However, does the Newer Testament give more insight into the Holy One? Absolutely! Any commentary gives insight into a subject... how much more does the Newer Testament, as the Inspired "Commentary" on the Older Testament, give insight into the Older Testament! -- slade -Original Message-From: Jonathan HughesSent: Wednesday, 12 January, 2005 20.20Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] On Echad Hi Slade, I realize that your one word answer is most likely a result of busyness. If I can tweak any more out of you (or at a time that is better for you) would you agree that the Newer Testament (read Jesus Christ) gives a fuller revelation of God than the Older Testament? Jonathan From:Slade HensonSent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 7:55 PMSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] On Echad No. -- slade
RE: [TruthTalk] On Echad
Hi Slade, If I understand the Jewish mind correctly God is utterly transcendent, beyond our feeble grasp, and beyond definition. I believe this is an essential aspect of God that the evangelical church has laid aside. However, I believe that Jesus changes/fulfills the Older Testament view of transcendence. If Jesus is truly God then God has condescended to enter space and time and make Himself available in a way that is far more intimate and intense than the Older Testament. My view of the Older Testament is one of God giving us the mental furniture, the Word and Face that is then given light in the Person of Jesus Christ. Torrance calls Israel the womb of the incarnation. It is this Hebraic mindset and understanding that you, Kay, and Jeff provide on this forum that I find so helpful. Thank you. The Nicene theologians were not slow to appreciate the basic revolution in knowledge of God that had taken place in Jesus Christ, through whom as Mediator between God and man we who are far off from God are brought near and are actually given access to Him. That is to say, with the incarnation of His Son in Jesus Christ, God in Himself is no longer closed to us, but has opened Himself to our knowledge in His own being as Father, Son and Holy Spirit, for what He has revealed of Himself to us through Christ and in the Spirit He is in Himself. Hence we may now enter into personal communion with God without being limited by our creaturely incapacities or being obstructed by our alienation, because of what God in His love has done for us and our salvation in Jesus Christ and because of the gift of His Holy Spirit, the indwelling presence of God Himself. Thus through Christ Jesus and in the Spirit whether we are Jews or Gentiles we ma enter within the veil, and know God in the inner relations of His own sublime being as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. (T.F. Torrance, The Trinitarian Faith, pg. 68.) Jonathan From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Slade Henson Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 8:34 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] On Echad The reason for the brevity is because the answer required brevity. To go further would simply force my foot in my mouth ormy words may stumble intoapostasy. G-d is s big I cannot begin to define even His edges, were they to exist. However, does the Newer Testament give more insight into the Holy One? Absolutely! Any commentary gives insight into a subject... how much more does the Newer Testament, as the Inspired Commentary on the Older Testament, give insight into the Older Testament! -- slade -Original Message- From: Jonathan Hughes Sent: Wednesday, 12 January, 2005 20.20 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] On Echad Hi Slade, I realize that your one word answer is most likely a result of busyness. If I can tweak any more out of you (or at a time that is better for you) would you agree that the Newer Testament (read Jesus Christ) gives a fuller revelation of God than the Older Testament? Jonathan From:Slade Henson Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 7:55 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] On Echad No. -- slade --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.818 / Virus Database: 556 - Release Date: 12/17/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.818 / Virus Database: 556 - Release Date: 12/17/2004
Re: [TruthTalk] On Echad
This is an awesome post, Jonathan. You have certainly made your point! Bill - Original Message - From: Jonathan Hughes To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 8:37 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] On Echad Hi Slade, If I understand the Jewish mind correctly God is utterly transcendent, beyond our feeble grasp, and beyond definition. I believe this is an essential aspect of God that the evangelical church has laid aside. However, I believe that Jesus changes/fulfills the Older Testament view of transcendence. If Jesus is truly God then God has condescended to enter space and time and make Himself available in a way that is far more intimate and intense than the Older Testament. My view of the Older Testament is one of God giving us the mental furniture, the Word and Face that is then given light in the Person of Jesus Christ. Torrance calls Israel the womb of the incarnation. It is this Hebraic mindset and understanding that you, Kay, and Jeff provide on this forum that I find so helpful. Thank you. The Nicene theologians were not slow to appreciate the basic revolution in knowledge of God that had taken place in Jesus Christ, through whom as Mediator between God and man we who are far off from God are brought near and are actually given access to Him. That is to say, with the incarnation of His Son in Jesus Christ, God in Himself is no longer closed to us, but has opened Himself to our knowledge in His own being as Father, Son and Holy Spirit, for what He has revealed of Himself to us through Christ and in the Spirit He is in Himself. Hence we may now enter into personal communion with God without being limited by our creaturely incapacities or being obstructed by our alienation, because of what God in His love has done for us and our salvation in Jesus Christ and because of the gift of His Holy Spirit, the indwelling presence of God Himself. Thus through Christ Jesus and in the Spirit whether we are Jews or Gentiles we ma enter within the veil, and know God in the inner relations of His own sublime being as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. (T.F. Torrance, The Trinitarian Faith, pg. 68.) Jonathan From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Slade HensonSent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 8:34 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] On Echad The reason for the brevity is because the answer required brevity. To go further would simply force my foot in my mouth ormy words may stumble intoapostasy. G-d is s big I cannot begin to define even His edges, were they to exist. However, does the Newer Testament give more insight into the Holy One? Absolutely! Any commentary gives insight into a subject... how much more does the Newer Testament, as the Inspired "Commentary" on the Older Testament, give insight into the Older Testament! -- slade -Original Message-From: Jonathan HughesSent: Wednesday, 12 January, 2005 20.20Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] On Echad Hi Slade, I realize that your one word answer is most likely a result of busyness. If I can tweak any more out of you (or at a time that is better for you) would you agree that the Newer Testament (read Jesus Christ) gives a fuller revelation of God than the Older Testament? Jonathan From:Slade HensonSent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 7:55 PMSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] On Echad No. -- slade ---Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.818 / Virus Database: 556 - Release Date: 12/17/2004 ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.818 / Virus Database: 556 - Release Date: 12/17/2004
RE: [TruthTalk] On Echad
[echad] of Us, to know good and evil; and now, lest he stretch forth his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever (Bereshit 3:22) Interestingly, the Shema (Devarim 6:4) contains no verbs. It merely says Hear Yisrael, YHVH our-God YHVH one. Without the use of verbs, one could surmise the Shema as being a commandment. The command would be that we are to be echad with YHVH Eloheinu. [1] Heb. The Holy Spirit [2] Heb. The Christ [3] Heb. The New (Renewed) Testament [4] Heb. Words; The Book of Deuteronomy [5] Heb. Our God [6] Heb. God [7] Heb. In the Beginning; The Book of Genesis [8] Heb. The book of Exodus [9] Heb. The Tabernacle [10] A Midrash can be pulled from the lower curtains and the upper tent of the Mishkan. The inner ten curtains represent the Ten Words given in Shemot 20:2-17), the 11 outer curtains represent the 11 Words the original Ten plus the New or Eleventh Commandment given by Yeshua: That you love one for another as I have loved you, that you also love one another (Yochanan 13:34-35). The Ruach haKodesh binds us together in like manner as the clasps in the Mishkan. [11] Heb. Lamech [12] Heb. Zillah [13] Heb. Best translated as Ones [14] Heb. Israel -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Bill TaylorSent: Monday, 10 January, 2005 08.37To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] On Echad Hi Dave, Slade said something about having written a paper on the subject. If he would like to post it, I would be glad to yield my answer to him. If it turns out he can't post it, I'll come on with something this evening. I'm off to lay a few brickies; you know what that's like. Thanks, Bill
Re: [TruthTalk] On Echad
Thanks, Slade. It was well worth the wait. Would you agree with me that in light of God's fuller self-revelation of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in the New Testament, there is very solid evidence upon which to conclude that echad in Deuteronomy, as it relates to the oneness God, and as it is quoted in the New Testament, does in fact reflect and refer to a coming together to form a oneness by way of unity, and that to the contraryit does not refer to an absolute singularity, as even some Christians are wont to insist? Anyway, thanks again, Bill - Original Message - From: Slade Henson To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 4:06 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] On Echad The Oneness of YHVHvs. Plurality One of the greatest arguments against the concept of the deity of Messiahis that YHVHis an absolute ONE. With this concept, there is no room for the Ruach haKodesh[1]or Messiah[2]as being YHVH as well. The Antimissionarymovement uses this argument to ward against the validity of Christianityand the Brit Hadasha[3]. In this instance, the tactics and arguments used by Antimissionariesand those who do not believe in the deity of Messiahare the same. However, the Anti-deity people do not seem to realize their points discredit the very foundation of their faith. Defining Echad As Plurality Devarim[4] 6:4, the watchword of the faith, tells us YHVH, Eloheinu[5][our Elohim[6]], YHVH is one. The Hebrew word used for one is echad. People love to quote teachers who tell us echad means a unity. However, it does not always mean a unity; nor, it does not always mean a singularity either. We must carefully address the context of the passage or sentence in order to determine if echad is declaring a unity or a singularity. In Bereshit[7] 1:5, 2:24, and 11:6provides three examples where echad is a unity, as opposed to a singularity. For instance, in Bereshit 1:5, one morning and one evening constitutes one day. In Bereshit 2:24, a woman and one man create one flesh; meanwhile in Bereshit 11:6, the whole of humanity is considered one people. As shown, in all three examples given, the idea of completion or the coming-together can be easily seen. Elohimcalled the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was eveningand was morning, one [echad] day. (Bereshit 1:5) Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and cling to his wife; and they shall become one [echad] flesh. (Bereshit 2:24) In Malakhi 2:13-16, we see a wretched priesthood who is grievously sinning. The people were not learning the ways of YHVH from the very ones who were to be examples. The phrase she is thy companion used in verse 14 in the KJV really should be translated she is thy joining, indicating that the covenant of marriage does indeed make a man and a woman echad. Refer also to Ephesians 5:28-29 33,1 Corinthians 12:12-14,1 Corinthians 6:15-17, and2 Corinthians 3:17. Further in the Ephesians text, Shaulof Tarsus compares the joining of a man and his wife and the love and fear expected in that relationship with the Messiah and the Ekklesia(Ephesians 5:30-33). See also Yochanan 10:22-33, 17:20-23, And YHVHsaid, See, the people are (singular) one [echad], and their tongue is one to all of them. And this is what they are beginning to do, and now nothing will be impossible for them all which they purpose to do. (Bereshit 11:6) The concept of more than one being defined as one is a readily accepted principle. In the United States of America, people were once taught the Pledge of Allegiance, which contains the phrase one nation, under God, indivisible This concept is not too hard to grasp. To continue with this thought, Shemot[8] 26:1-1-6gives us an overview of the building of the Mishkan[9]. The inner or lower section is constructed of 10 linen curtains. The curtains are held together with 50 gold clasps. Once together, the 10 curtains are called echad Mishkan. (Shemot 13:13) The outer or upper section (Shemot 26:7-13) is called the tent. It is constructed out of 11 curtains of goat hair. These are held together by 50 bronze clasps and, as a unit, they are also called echad tent.[10] Additionally, the two large curtains together are called echad Mishkan. (Shemot 36:14-8) In the Greek Brit Hadasha, we have a Hebraic perspective one. In Revelation 21:9-11, the Bride is introduced to Yochanan the Prophet, but in verse, the prophet is shown a city coming down out of Heaven. However, in many Scriptures, the Bride of Messiah is the community of believers (Revelation 19:7-8, 18:23). Therefore, the Bride, New Yerushalayim, and the Believers are echad. Defining Echad As Singular Meanwhile, Bereshit 2
Re: [TruthTalk] On Echad
Bill Taylor wrote: No need to throw the baby out with the bath water, Judy. Three Persons, Yes -- but One God. Do a study on the Hebrew word echad; DAVEH: Billcan you (or perhaps another TTer) explain it a bit further to those of us TTers who ain't quite as smart as we should be. Just what does echad imply? that will help you understand the oneness of God. Bill -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] On Echad
Hi Dave, Slade said something about having written a paper on the subject. If he would like to post it, I would be glad to yield my answer to him. If it turns out he can't post it, I'll come on with something this evening. I'm off to lay a few brickies; you know what that's like. Thanks, Bill - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 1:26 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] On Echad Bill Taylor wrote: No need to throw the baby out with the bath water, Judy. Three Persons, Yes -- but One God. Do a study on the Hebrew word echad;DAVEH: Billcan you (or perhaps another TTer) explain it a bit further to those of us TTers who ain't quite as smart as we should be. Just what does echad imply? that will help you understand the oneness of God. Bill-- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] On Echad
Bill Taylor wrote: Hi Dave, Slade said something about having written a paper on the subject. If he would like to post it, I would be glad to yield my answer to him. If it turns out he can't post it, I'll come on with something this evening. DAVEH: Good. I have my own opinions about the oneness of God, and I'll be curious to hear some other views. I'm off to lay a few brickies; you know what that's like. DAVEH: Yeah.I do, Bill. That's exactly why I got out of the trade nearly 4 decades ago! Thanks, Bill - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 1:26 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] On Echad Bill Taylor wrote: No need to throw the baby out with the bath water, Judy. Three Persons, Yes -- but One God. Do a study on the Hebrew word echad; DAVEH: Billcan you (or perhaps another TTer) explain it a bit further to those of us TTers who ain't quite as smart as we should be. Just what does echad imply? that will help you understand the oneness of God. Bill -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] On Echad
Bill Taylor wrote: No need to throw the baby out with the bath water, Judy. Three Persons, Yes -- but One God. Do a study on the Hebrew word echad; Kay wrote: I think some dude was trying to help people understand God better and gave a midrash/parable of the three-in-One. I've heard the egg theory, toothe egg is ONE object, but contains the shell, the yolk and the white stuff. Three rolled into one. I think it was nice to give people more of an understanding, but I think it has gone overboard. You can't put God in a box. I think He is much more than three people. I see Jesus as a man, as Scripture says. I see Him as God...fully God, fully Man. I see Him as the "action" manifested part of many parts of God. jt: How about Kay's definition Bill? How do you define God by one Hebrew word? judyt
Re: [TruthTalk] On Echad
DAVEH: Yeah.I do, Bill. That's exactly why I got out of the trade nearly 4 decades ago! I very much enjoy laying brick, but I don't like how it makes me feel. My back hurts all the time, andin the winter my hands are alwayscold. I would not be doing it if I didn't need to be doing something to make a little money during this time that we're droughted out in our other ventures. When I quit laying brick back in '85, I didn't expect or desire to ever do it again -- but then I always missed it when I wasn't. I am very thankful now to have a trade-skill to fall back on. I've beenteaching my oldest son the trade (he's been carrying hod since he was twelve) and it's not so that he can be a bricklayer when he grows up, but so that he will always have that skill, should he need it tofill in someblanks along the way. I know you know this stuffand understand why I'm saying it. God bless you, Bill
Re: [TruthTalk] On Echad
jt: How about Kay's definition Bill? How do you define God by one Hebrew word? judyt I don't. Bill - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 12:47 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] On Echad Bill Taylor wrote: No need to throw the baby out with the bath water, Judy. Three Persons, Yes -- but One God. Do a study on the Hebrew word echad; Kay wrote: I think some dude was trying to help people understand God better and gave a midrash/parable of the three-in-One. I've heard the egg theory, toothe egg is ONE object, but contains the shell, the yolk and the white stuff. Three rolled into one. I think it was nice to give people more of an understanding, but I think it has gone overboard. You can't put God in a box. I think He is much more than three people. I see Jesus as a man, as Scripture says. I see Him as God...fully God, fully Man. I see Him as the "action" manifested part of many parts of God. jt: How about Kay's definition Bill? How do you define God by one Hebrew word? judyt
RE: [TruthTalk] On Echad
DAVEH: Yeah.I do, Bill. That's exactly why I got out of the trade nearly 4 decades ago! I very much enjoy laying brick, but I don't like how it makes me feel. My back hurts all the time, andin the winter my hands are alwayscold. I would not be doing it if I didn't need to be doing something to make a little money during this time that we're droughted out in our other ventures. When I quit laying brick back in '85, I didn't expect or desire to ever do it again -- but then I always missed it when I wasn't. I am very thankful now to have a trade-skill to fall back on. I've beenteaching my oldest son the trade (he's been carrying hod since he was twelve) and it's not so that he can be a bricklayer when he grows up, but so that he will always have that skill, should he need it tofill in someblanks along the way. I know you know this stuffand understand why I'm saying it. God bless you, Bill Bill, I am also a big believer in learning all the skills that you can. You never know when they will be used as a blessing to you or to someone else. Izzy
Re: [TruthTalk] On Echad
Bill Taylor wrote: DAVEH: Yeah.I do, Bill. That's exactly why I got out of the trade nearly 4 decades ago! I very much enjoy laying brick, but I don't like how it makes me feel. My back hurts all the time, andin the winter my hands are alwayscold. DAVEH: With me, it was my feet. I would not be doing it if I didn't need to be doing something to make a little money during this time that we're droughted out in our other ventures. When I quit laying brick back in '85, I didn't expect or desire to ever do it again -- but then I always missed it when I wasn't. I am very thankful now to have a trade-skill to fall back on. I've beenteaching my oldest son the trade (he's been carrying hod since he was twelve) DAVEH: I started that before I entered the first grade! Guess that's why I didn't find it enjoyablenever new much of anything else. and it's not so that he can be a bricklayer when he grows up, but so that he will always have that skill, should he need it tofill in someblanks along the way. DAVEH: Yep.And, facing a life slinging mud makes being employed doing something else much more palatable! :-) I know you know this stuffand understand why I'm saying it. DAVEH: I do understand, Bill. Just ponder how much fun it will be as you/he approaches retirement age. That trade is not only tough on a young body, but brutal on an old one! I found that I much rather enjoyed doing anything else that was unrelated to cement. A few years ago I learned whyI'm allergic to chrome, a key element of cement. Not that it matters much, as I also found out I'm allergic to leather for the same reason! :-( God bless you, Bill -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
RE: [TruthTalk] On Echad
If you like, I have one already done.. -- slade -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Bill TaylorSent: Sunday, 09 January, 2005 18.40To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] On Echad No need to throw the baby out with the bath water, Judy. Three Persons, Yes -- but One God. Do a study on the Hebrew word echad; that will help you understand the oneness of God. Bill - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 10:43 AM Subject: Re: Re: [TruthTalk] Mormon Related #2 jt: I wouldn't have thought that at one time but I am now seriously reconsidering in light of all this Eternal Father, Eternal Son talk. I had thought that Godhead and Trinity were speaking of the same thing Now I'm not so sure. If the Father and Son are locked into these roles then it appears that some are speaking of three separate personages and/or gods. judyt
