On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:45:33 -0400 "David
Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The gospel was declared to you
[Bill], you heard the gospel,
then you responded with faith, repentance,
obedience,
worship, confession, and
love..
did Bill say this, or, that
this occurred?
even so,what
sage -
From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 1:45 PM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Calvinism
Bill wrote: When I say "us all" I mean us all -- all
humanity, not just all Christians. That's what I
thought you meant! Wow! Bill w
al Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 11:50
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:45:33 -0400 "David
Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The gospel was declared to you
[Bill],
Bill: This post is a KEEPER! Lance
- Original Message -
From:
Wm. Taylor
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: April 27, 2004 09:24
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
Bill wrote
When you insinuate that I have diminished
faithor repentance, or the power of sin
In a message dated 4/27/2004 8:05:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Bill wrote When you insinuate that I have diminished faith or repentance, or the power of sin and death, or human depravity, David, you simply misunderstand me. These things are all real, profoundly real, in
In a message dated 4/21/2004 11:36:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Note that the New Living translation is just that, a translation, not a paraphrase. Do not confuse this with the Living Bible which was a paraphrase. I have listed a bunch of translations below:
Amen.
Sherrie wrote:
Your reply to this appalls me.
Sorry.
Sherrie wrote:
You say you think you can think of worse losses.
I can't. I've lost a child.
Sorry. I did not mean to minimize such a loss, but only to point out
that there are worse things than a young child leaving us and going to
Bill wrote:
When I say us all I mean us all -- all humanity,
not just all Christians.
That's what I thought you meant! Wow!
Bill wrote:
I'll tell you in a nutshell what has happened to me
that has yet to happen to you. I have apprehended the
effects of the Enlightenment upon my thoughts
. Perhaps that is what David thought.
Izzy
Sherrie, I believe/KNOW that your child is SO wonderfully with Jesus!!! Oh
that JOY!!!Izzy
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 6:39 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
Hi David,
Below is the entire sentence Bill sent.
Your reply
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4/21, Judy:
Actually progressive
sanctification should be considered normal Christian
living.
G writes:
why?
jt: Cause it's what the scriptures teach
(contrary to what you may
have learned from Izzy's cat :)
"For this is the will of God, your
sanctification
rers,
idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire
and brimstone, which is the second death."
- Original Message -
From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 9:01
PM
Subject:
:
Judy
Taylor
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 6:24
AM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
Bill, Lance and all:
I believe I am understanding a little more about what
is going on here (some of us are slow) and what you are up tois not all
that different
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 8:04 AM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
Bill wrote:
I believe this passage does mean that all receive
the gift of life and that this gift is automatically
afforded to us all whether or not we put our trust
and faith
Hi David,
Below is the entire sentence Bill sent.
Your reply to this appalls me.
You say you think you can think of worse losses. I cant. Ive lost a child.
You say you are getting a little nervous when you hear such superlatives being
thrown around.
You say such usually indicates excessive
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
Hi David,
Below is the entire sentence Bill sent.
Your reply to this appalls me.
You say you think you can think of worse losses. I can't. I've lost a
child.
You say you are getting a little nervous when you hear such superlatives
being
thrown around.
You
: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 5:39 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
Hi David,
Below is the entire sentence Bill sent.
Your reply to this appalls me.
You say you think you can think of worse losses. I can't. I've lost a
child.
You say you
ews beyond
recognition.
- Original Message -
From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 8:04 AM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Calvinism
Bill wrote: I believe this passage does mean that all
receive the gift of life and that this g
his views beyond
recognition.
- Original Message -
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 8:04 AM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
Bill wrote:
I believe this passage does mean that all receive
://www.giantcompany.com
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Terry Clifton
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004
7:16 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
No, I am not
referring to you as a blithering idiot. That description is for those who
think
anti-spam software available.
http://www.giantcompany.com
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 9:35 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
Bill,
Thank you. Your words very much
My friend lost a child and it was a horrible thing to get over. She now says that she thinks of it as her child is not in her past but is in her future! Laura
Company's Spam Inspector
The most powerful anti-spam software available.
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From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Wm. Taylor
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004
3:50 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
When I say
Company's Spam Inspector
The most powerful anti-spam software available.
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From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of ShieldsFamily
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004
10:19 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
Bill
S PRETEXTS! God is greater
than you have yet imagined, God's grace iswider and more inclusive than
you have yet understood. Blessings, Lance
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: April 20, 2004 20:36
Subject: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
From
From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
No person from the first to the last is excluded
from that which is accomplished in the second Adam, Jesus.
jt: Of course they are - everyone who
loves and believes the lie is automatically excluded.
Some have referred to this as a "double movement" :
).
Peace and joy,
Jonathan
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004
7:03 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
judyt
From: Judy Taylor
davidm: I agree
Lance wrote:
No person from the first to the last is excluded
from that which is accomplished in the second Adam,
Jesus. Some have referred to this as a double movement:
God toward man and man toward God. Both take place
in the God/Man.
I don't think I have much of a problem with this
really must get back to work.
Peace and joy,
Jonathan Hughes
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David Miller
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 9:05 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
Lance wrote:
No person from the first
From: "Jonathan Hughes" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Hi Judy, Please
consider the following quotes:When Adam sinned, sin entered the entire human
race. Adams sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned. Yes, people sinned even before
the law was given. And though there was no law
Jonathan, I wanted to address your concern
below.
My big concern here is that I think most people give
Adam far more credit than Christ. We are so quick to show how we
have all sinned in Adam but rarely will you hear that we all rose again in
Christ. The passage above clearly compares
From: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED]Judy Taylor
wrote:
a) A covenant by nature requires the death of both
parties.
DAVEH: I'm lost on this one, Judy. Would you be so kind as to
explain
why you believe such, please?
jt: I may not have expressed myselfvery well but
blood covenants are
Jonathan Hughes wrote:
Yes, Adams
one sin brought condemnation upon everyone, but Christs one act of
righteousness makes all people right in Gods sight and gives them life.
You are making no sense to me whatsoever.
All people are not
right in God's sight. Most of
Hi
Terry,
This
is not my sentence. This is a direct quote from Romans. This is
Paul's sentence.
Jonathan Hughes Supervisor of Application Support Kingsway Financial 905-629-7888
x. 2471
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Terry
\o/ !HALALU Yah!
\o/
Greetings Jonathan et al in the Matchless Name of YahShua
!
- Original Message -
From: Hughes Jonathan
Sent: 04/21/2004 12:49 PM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
This
is not my sentence. This is a direct quote from Romans. This is
Paul's sentence
Terry
This looks like Romans 5:19 from the New Living
translation which is a paraphrase.
andyou probably read from the "majority text"
which is why you don'trecognize
this phraseas being "the words of
Paul".
The KJV reads "For as by one man's disobedience many
were made sinners, so
by the
) our Lord.
Jonathan
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Judy
TaylorSent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 2:13 PMTo:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [TruthTalk]
Calvinism
Terry
This looks like Romans 5:19 from the New Living
transla
--
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 10:14
AM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
From: "Jonathan Hughes" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Hi Judy, Please
consider the following quotes:When Adam sinned, sin entered the entire
human rac
han Hughes
Supervisor of Application Support
Kingsway Financial
905-629-7888 x. 2471
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Terry
Clifton
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 1:33 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re:
Hey Judy:
I checked three versions and that wording was not in any of them. I
see a giant gap between "MANY" and "ALL". One word change changes the
whole message.
Thanks for telling me where he got his info, 'Cause I knew it wasn't in
my Bibles.
Terry
Judy Taylor wrote:
Terry
e that the atonement covers
theiriniquity?" (see 2 Timothy 2:9).
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 10:14
AM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
From: "Jonathan Hughes" [EMAIL PR
Hi
Terry,
The
'many' when referring to Adam is definitely all. Therefore, the 'many'
when referring to Christ must also be all. Otherwise we are playing with
apples and oranges. I am sure you would disagree if I said that many (but
not all, just some) became sinners through Adam. The
on Support Kingsway Financial 905-629-7888
x. 2471
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Judy
TaylorSent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 2:59 PMTo:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [TruthTalk]
Calvinism
It's what I am hearing from you, Lance, an
Taylor
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 12:58
PM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
It's what I am hearing from you, Lance, and Jonathan
- and what the committe of Baptists who worked on the New Living Translation
apparently believed when they changed R
inancial 905-629-7888
x. 2471
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Judy
TaylorSent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 2:59 PMTo:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [TruthTalk]
Calvinism
It's what I am hearing from you, Lance, and Jonathan
- and wha
Taylor
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 12:58
PM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
It's what I am hearing from you, Lance, and Jonathan
- and what the committe of Baptists who worked on the New Living Translation
apparently believed when they changed Romans 5:
ylor
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 10:41
AM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
Jonathan, I wanted to address your concern
below.
My big concern here is that I think most people give
Adam far more credit than Christ. We are so quick to show how we
hav
I do also Terry,
You were on the ball to catch this and it makes me realize what a potential
problem all of these
different translations arebecoming. I have many of them but
always return to the KJV. The
NIV is bad enough with all of it's ommissions and now this. Makes me
want to weep for
PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 1:30
PM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
I wrote the words as you well know Bill; to me they
reflect what I hear you and those of the same persuasion saying
when you speak of theall-inclusivity of the
incarnation. Are you sure this doctrine
n perfection, that is fine -- quite understandable
even!But please take it up withDavid Miller. It is, after all, he
whose language it is.
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 10:41
AM
Subject: [TruthTal
PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Terry
Clifton
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 2:56 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
Hey Judy:
I checked three versions and that wording was not in any of them. I
see a giant gap between "MANY" and "ALL". One
died but only a few will be made alive in
Christ?
Jonathan
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Terry
CliftonSent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 4:10 PMTo:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Calvinism
I don'y care if we are talking about pea
inal Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 10:14
AM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
From: "Jonathan Hughes" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Hi Judy,
Please consider the following quotes:Wh
Judy, maybe you should shop off your right hand.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 3:02
PM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
He won't be holding us in that day unlesswe
havebeen obedient
made alive. Maybe we need to do a study on
being"in Christ" involves, that is, what it is and what it
isn't.
judyt
Jonathan
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Terry
CliftonSent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 4:10 PMTo:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Su
is the one who will hold us both in that day. After all, it is not faith which saves us, but he in whom we have faith.
Bill
- Original Message -
From: Judy Taylor
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 1:30 PM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
I wrote the words as you well
nal Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 2:13 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
Terry
This looks like Romans 5:19 from the New Living translation which is a paraphrase.
andyou probably read from the &
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 1:13
PM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
Hi
Terry,
The
'many' when referring to Adam is definitely all. Therefore, the 'many'
when referring to Christ must also be all. Otherwise we are playing with
apples and oranges. I am sur
nesday, April 21, 2004 4:10 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
I don'y care if we are talking about pears and cumquats.
All are not right with God. Look around you. You will see.
Terry
21, 2004
5:32 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
From: Hughes Jonathan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Meaning that your view of humanity is above the view
of scripture? That when scripture says one thing and you say another,
then you win? Is this what you don't care about
ons), it's not just those
precious babes who need to be careful which translation they trust.We all do.
Bill
- Original Message -
From: Hughes Jonathan
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 1:13 PM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
Hi Terry,
The 'many' when referring to Adam
Peace, brother.
- Original Message -
From:
Kevin
Deegan
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 4:16
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
OOH Now I understand.
HN "The Many"
It was so unclear till now.
Poor ol Holy Sp
Why do you like such a Filthy mouth like Bono?"Wm. Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Peace, brother.
- Original Message -
From: Kevin Deegan
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 4:16 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
OOH Now I understand.
HN
, 2004 4:25
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
Why do you like such a Filthy mouth like Bono?"Wm. Taylor"
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Peace, brother.
- Original Message -
From:
Kevin Deegan
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
right with God.
Jonathan
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Terry Clifton
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004
6:14 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
Jonathan:
I was not placing my experience above scripture. I was saying that You
up.
- Original Message -
From: Kevin Deegan
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
Why do you like such a Filthy mouth like Bono?"Wm. Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Peace, brother.
- Original Message
not teach a limited atonement; it was formulated after his death.
My apologies.
Jonathan
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jonathan Hughes
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004
6:10 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
Hi Judy,
Your
From: "Jonathan Hughes" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Hi Judy, Your reply
makes me smile a bit, not in any mischievous way but just over a simple
understanding. You say that I am holding to a Calvinistic
interpretation/doctrine. In fact you say such things in most of your
emails to Lance, Bill and I.
ppreciate you taking the time to do it.
Peace and
joy,
Jonathan
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Judy
TaylorSent: Wednesday, April
21, 2004 5:32 PMTo:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [TruthTalk]
Calvinism
From: "Hughes Jonathan" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mean
PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
Hi Jonathan, Terry, and all,
In the NT whenpolloi (many) is used in
reference to the saving work of JesusChrist (see Mrk 10.45; 14.24; Rom
5.19; Heb 9.28), the Semitic inclusive sense is to be understood, i.e. Jesus
died for all (cf. 1Tim 2.6
]
Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk] Calvinism
Jonathan:
I was not placing my experience above scripture. I was saying that You
are wrong, wrong, wrong! Many does not mean all. Many does not even
mean a majority. Many does not mean most. My Bible says "Many".
To think it means all is to say
TTers, I thought I might submit this work for your
consideration. It takes into view several of the topics of today's discussion:
Predestination, Limited Atonement, The One and The Many. Please enjoy. Bill
Taylor
Re-Thinking Calvin's Horrible Decree
(c)1998 W.
Thomas Taylor
John Calvin
Hughes Jonathan wrote:
Another verse you will want to consider is 1
Corinthians 15:22: (KJV)
22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ
shall all be made alive.
Here the King James Version uses the word 'all' and the concept of from
death to life. Would we now say that inAdam
Jonathan wrote:
Hope you don't mind me answering your questions as well.
Of course not. Welcome to the party! :-)
Jonathan wrote:
1) I do not hold to Calvin's concept of Limit Atonement.
I figured that out by now. :-)
Jonathan wrote:
2) I do not believe in universalism, that
all
Judy Taylor wrote:
From: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Judy Taylor wrote:
a) A covenant by nature requires the
death of both parties.
DAVEH: I'm lost on this one, Judy. Would you be so kind as to
explain
why you believe such, please?
jt: I may not have expressed
Thanks to everyone who has commented on the many and all translation. I find the posts interesting and informative. Laura
Jonathan wrote:
The passage makes no sense if 'many' is not 'all'
which is why some translations use 'all' instead
of 'many'. Please give us your exegesis on this
passage on how the many when referring to Adam is
all of us, and how the many when referring to Christ
is just some of us.
4/21, Judy:
Actually progressive
sanctification should be considered normal Christian
living.
why?
G ~ P
235
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
David Miller wrote:
Lance wrote:
... I appreciate Calvin. He is, I believe, one of
Christianity's important men of God. Have you read
him? Do you "know" the content of his work? If you
do please substantiate your apparent dislike of
hi
From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]God's
covenant with HK is unilateral. God's love and forgiveness are
unconditional. Forgiveness preceeds repentance. All of HK is included
in the Incarnation.Blessings, Lance
jt: Do we have the same Bible? God DOES NOT have
a covenant with
fallen
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: April 20, 2004 07:23
Subject: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]God's
covenant with HK is unilateral. God's love and forgiveness are
unconditional. Forgiveness preceeds repentance. All of HK i
Lance Muir wrote:
God's covenant, through Abraham
(with all of HK) is indeed unilateral (not bilateral). God's
forgiveness love through the Incarnate, obedient Israelite Jesus
is unconditional and inclusiveness (not exclusive).These (FL)
preceed repentance.
: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 8:21
AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
Lance Muir wrote:
God's covenant, through Abraham (with all of HK) is
indeed unilateral (not bilateral). God's forgiveness love through the
Incarnate, obedient Israelite Jesus is unconditional
Jonathan Hughes wrote:
Hi Terry,
Why would
something that only God can give
(forgiveness) be dependent on something humans can only give
(repentance)? Why make God dependent and restricted by humankind?
God is overly capable of forgiving without repentance. If we say
Judy Taylor wrote:
a) A covenant by nature requires the death
of both parties.
DAVEH: I'm lost on this one, Judy. Would you be so kind as to explain
why you believe such, please?
--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you
Terry, Youre SO right on! J Izzy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Terry Clifton
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 7:35
AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
Jonathan Hughes wrote:
Hi Terry,
Why would something that only
In a message dated 4/20/2004 8:35:43 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Jonathan Hughes wrote:
Hi Terry,
Why would something that only God can give (forgiveness) be dependent on something humans can only give (repentance)? Why make God dependent and restricted by
Lance wrote:
God's forgiveness ... is unconditional
I agree with the idea that God could forgive unconditionally if he
wanted to. In other words, God has the power and ability to forgive
unconditionally. The real question is whether or not He does. I do not
think he does. I believe that
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:31:13 -0400 "David
Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:I believe that Jesus.. reveal[s] ..the
nature of God concerning how he administers forgiveness.
But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law
muttered, "This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.."
[JC
From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]God's
covenant with HK is unilateral. God's love and forgiveness
are unconditional. Forgiveness preceeds repentance. All of HK is
included in the Incarnation.Blessings, Lance
jt: This is your particular theology Lance, it's not
Bible. God has no
open
From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]God's
covenant, through Abraham (with all of HK) is indeed unilateral
(not bilateral). God's forgiveness love through the Incarnate,
obedient
Israelite Jesus is unconditional and inclusiveness (not exclusive).
jt: How can you completely ignore the "Ifs,
From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Lance
wrote:God's forgiveness ... is unconditional
davidm: I agree with the idea that God could forgive unconditionally if he
wanted to. In other words, God has the power and ability to forgive
unconditionally. The real question is whether or not He
Lance wrote:
... I appreciate Calvin. He is, I believe, one of
Christianity's important men of God. Have you read
him? Do you know the content of his work? If you
do please substantiate your apparent dislike of
him/his work. If you don't then please refrain from
the shots.
Hi Lance. I
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:40:27 -0400 "David
Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:I meant to give you some actual quotes that
bother me,
but the phone is ringing
...
who's on the line, Izzy's
cat?
G ~ P
235
.
Blessings, Lance
- Original Message -
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: April 19, 2004 12:40
Subject: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
Lance wrote:
... I appreciate Calvin. He is, I believe, one of
Christianity's important men of God. Have you read
him? Do you
In a message dated 4/19/2004 12:40:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Under Calvinism, man has no power to do what is right or to do what is
wrong. Under Calvinism, man is what God has made him. It is a form of
fatalism that has no place in the life of a believer who would
David Miller wrote:
Lance wrote:
... I appreciate Calvin. He is, I believe, one of
Christianity's important men of God. Have you read
him? Do you "know" the content of his work? If you
do please substantiate your apparent dislike of
him/his work. If you don't then please
DAVEH wrote:
Wow!!! So whether or not (as Kevin is questioning) Jeff
understood the pastor's reply correctly, there are actually
Christians who believe God created people specifically
to burn in hell to glorify Him. (Have I got that right,
DavidM?)
Yes, that is correct. The
DAVEH wrote:
I may be misunderstanding you, Dean.Are you saying
God created mortal beings specifically for the purpose
of being burned in hell to glorify Himself??? That
to me seems to portray him as a dictatorial tyrant,
and I would find it hard to think any Christian could
David Miller wrote:
DAVEH wrote:
I may be misunderstanding you, Dean.Are you saying
God created mortal beings specifically for the purpose
of being burned in hell to glorify Himself??? That
to me seems to portray him as a dictatorial tyrant,
and I would find it hard to think any
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